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Sam Smith-esque trade idea of the week: get in on Jason Kidd deal

That's right, I'm putting on my sweater-vest again, and trying to come up with a midseason trade for the Bulls. Not sure if it's really to make the team better as much as more interesting, as to be honest I can't stomach watching this same group much longer.

As far as why to trade at all, The Bulls aren't losing enough to have true lottery dreams, and with the pick they'll likely get I wouldn't want another young player clogging up the roster. (then again, I said the same thing last year and am pretty happy with Noah) And, as currently constituted they won't do much in the playoffs either. So while I suppose that makes me for the organization's new lowered-expectations of simply making the Eastern Conference playoffs, I still think changes should be made so a playoff run is made with an eye still to the future.

And while the first option would be to deal Wallace, or make some blockbuster acquisition, it just doesn't seem possible

But the Bulls do have a nice congruence [or confluence, or in congruence, or confusing -ed.] of circumstances: a goal (or should-be goal) of developing Thomas and Noah for this playoff push, and some solid performing veterans in Joe Smith and Andres Nocioni. The Bulls should be doing what they can to see if any value can be had for those vets, as not only will they have the highest value but they're blocking their most important projects.

Which brings me to the most recent trade speculation floating around the league: Jason Kidd's latest trade demand. Kelly Dwyer broke down the limited options:

Kidd's agent, Jeff Schwartz, is fresh off issuing New Jersey's front office a trade demand, and though Kidd's age (35 in March) and contract (19.7 million bucks this season, 21.3 million the next) make him a tough sell...

Making things more complicated are the tradeable (we think) contracts that the Nets won't want. The Lakers could send Lamar Odom and Kwame to New Jersey in a half-second for Kidd, but why would the Nets want to rebuild with Odom's contract on the books? Odom's in his ostensible prime, he's not some young stud who can develop on a rebuilding team, and his contract expires the same year as Kidd's.

It makes sense that a rebuilding team wouldn't want Odom, but as I stated above the Bulls shouldn't be rebuilding just yet, and acquiring Odom can make sense as long as it means dealing out two other veteran big-men.

Here is my proposed 3-team deal with the Bulls/Lakers/Nets.

Lakers (acquire Jason Kidd, Joe Smith, and Jamaal Magloire): Figure that a triumvirate of Bryant/Kidd/Bynum can give them a 2-year championship window. Smith is a veteran having a great season and thus a great role-playing fit for a contender. Magloire (or as later mentioned, Jason Collins) can be the stopgap center (taking Kwame's role) until Bynum returns.  Dealing Kwame's monster expiring deal is their best chance to get a player of Kidd's caliber (or perhaps more importantly, stature) around Kobe, so it seems like now is the time to strike.

Nets (acquire Jordan Farmar, Andres Nocioni, Kwame Brown, Chris Duhon, picks and cash): Are likely resigned to not getting much more than expiring deals and mid-level prospects and picks for Kidd at this point. Nocioni's deal is long and mean (though front-loaded, which is less mean), but perhaps their previously reported interest in the 'tough guy' isn't extinguished even though they're dealing Kidd. Getting a point guard prospect seems like a must, and it can be hashed out between them and the Lakers as to whether it's Farmar or Javaris Crittenton. Another negotiating wrinkle could be forcing L.A. to take Jason Collins (another year on his deal) instead of Magloire, and to make up the salary difference the Lakers could deal Chris Mihm's expiring deal (with Mihm's consent) back. In terms of draft picks, I'm not sure they couldn't get either (or both) the Bulls or Lakers first round selections, and as an added asset: by coincidence the Nets owe their 2009 second rounder to Seattle, and both the Bulls (Knicks) and Lakers (Bobcats) have extra 2009 picks to even out that debit.

Bulls (acquire Lamar Odom, Darrell Armstrong, Bostjan Nachbar): I like this deal for the Bulls because even though it's technically 3-for-3, it still serves as roster consolidation, as it'd replace two players ahead of Noah and Thomas with one. And while Odom is highly paid ($13.2m+$14.1m), it's still only one additional season (same as Smith, and three fewer than Noc), and it'll give Paxson 2 straight years of fat expiring deals (Odom and then Wallace) in case the 'right' superstar comes along. And while he's having a poor season (and overall just aint that great), as previously discussed on this site Odom can still help on the court too. As Hollinger says, he's high-volume and medium-efficiency, but, unlike most of the current Bulls roster, is someone who can create shots and has a more diverse offensive game beyond jumpshooting. He rebounds well enough (14.1 rebound rate this year, compared to 12.9 for Smith and 10.4 for Noc) to stay at the PF spot but can play multiple positions. In this deal the Nets stand to simply trade away bodies, so Armstrong is coming over to take Duh's spot as backup point (asking for Marcus Williams is a bit greedy), and the Bulls and Nets can negotiate whether Nachbar or Antoine Wright is their new backup SF.

New Bulls roster (IR: Nichols, Curry, Khryapa):
Hinrich/Armstrong
Sefolosha/Gordon
Deng/Nachbar/Griffin
Odom/Thomas
Wallace/Noah/Gray

This new Bulls team would be (most importantly?) different, but also both better suited for this year's playoffs and beyond. None of the Bulls young talent is touched, and in fact they'd get opportunity for a developmental boost simply by having fewer guys in their way. Financially the Bulls are in better shape with a big expiring deal next year, and the long-term commitment to Nocioni off the books.

And the rest of this season becomes a lot more fun to watch.

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Creative
I find this creative, but somehow, I am just not a fan of anything that has the Bulls acquiring Lamar Odom.  I just don't like his game.  He strikes me as a fine 3rd option, who gathers some rebounds, scores some points, but never really does anything to turn his team into a winner.  In other words, I think he'd fit in perfectly on the team we have right now...passive, looking for someone else to do the big thing, never really stepping up when the time comes for someone to act.

by balta1701 on Jan 28, 2008 9:17 PM CST   0 recs

I get your point
Odom doesn't really change the demeanor of the team. He does have skill though, which is also deficient on this roster.

Plus I'm sick of watching Nocioni 'step up'.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 28, 2008 10:34 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

HOMER TRADE ALERT!!!
C'mon guys, take off your red and white colored goggles and think about this for a second:

-- Why would the Lakers trade Odom and Farmar for a 34-year-old point guard and garbage?

-- Why would the Lakers essentially trade Lamar Odom for Chris Duhon and Joe Smith?

-- And why wouldn't the Lakers just offer Farmar and Brown to the Nets for Kidd without including the Bulls scrubs?

Nice try, guys. Kupchak is stupid, but he ain't that stupid!!!

by biggame james on Jan 30, 2008 3:08 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

TRADE MACHINE ALERT
as in, use it. your questions will be answered.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 30, 2008 3:56 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

Interesting
Odom is a lot more of a roadblock to Tyrus getting minutes than either Noc or Joe Smith's knees.  And next year is TT's breakout year.  Or he's a bust.  Plus, TT's going to be getting more and more valuable minutes at the end of this year as they drain more and more fluid out of Smith's knee and Noc is forced to log heavy minutes as SF.  So do you really want to short-circuit that by getting a 35+ minute PF to play ahead of him?
Nocioni-Khryapa in '08

by bullshooter on Jan 28, 2008 9:43 PM CST   0 recs

uh...
Smith and Noc get more minutes as is, and Odom's only going to play less as he goes along, plus he's usually missing 20 games a season if that's a 'bonus' for you.

If Tyrus booms (he already broke out as far as I'm concerned, ha) then he can take the starting role. Granted this involves a real coach.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 28, 2008 10:25 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

for some reason I want to talk about this more
what exactly does "next year is TT's breakout year.  Or he's a bust." mean? I don't like your criteria for evaluating Tyrus (4 minutes at a time) so far, so I'm skeptical I'll like your answer.

I think if Odom is starting and Tyrus plays 15-25 minutes a game on a GOOD team (and having 4 good bigs...er 3+Wallace, isn't overdoing things), that's progress. He doesn't have to start and play 35 minutes to not get some arbitrary 'bust' label at age 22, and getting junk minutes on a junk team to end to this season will likely facilitate bad habits anyway.

Plus, it seems that your crediting this idea of waiting until guys get hurt for young players to see action as some brilliant scheme from the coaching (and management?) staff, and not what it is: them falling ass-backwards into competence.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 29, 2008 12:35 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

I would expect TT
to be playing consistent, meaningful minutes and having an impact.  I don't care whether it's starting or coming off of the bench like BG, he should be playing at least half of the minutes at PF and putting up solid if not above average numbers.  He's already demonstrated he can do these things in certain situations, so I would expect the next leap to be his ability to do them consistently.  Over the last month his minutes have been increasing, so he's going to get a shot to show what he can do again.
Nocioni-Khryapa in '08

by bullshooter on Jan 29, 2008 12:55 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

That's my point
as this team descends in the crapper, there's no meaningful minutes to be had.

'half' the minutes seems arbitrary, but it works for me. I'm not unconvinced they couldn't swing a Tyrus/Odom frontcourt at times too. Again, 4 big men doesn't seem like too much, and I think it's less than 5.

And I still cringe when you mention this 'shot' Tyrus is getting. Quit giving the organization any credit and join us who think they're just complete idiots who are now forced to play Thomas out of unintended circumstances. join us....

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 29, 2008 3:59 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

The Dark Side is enticing
but I still have to pass.  If the team is ever going to be good, the players have to be consistent.  Tyrus was going to get another shot regardless of whatever else happened.  The fact that it happens sooner is gravy.  The young guys always get a chance, it's just nice when they push the older guys out instead of being given the spot.  Hopefully tonight is the first of many good nights for TT.
Nocioni-Khryapa in '08

by bullshooter on Jan 29, 2008 6:07 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

Right now
I'd be happy with a deal the includes my Grandmother at this point. Anything to make it more watchable.

I can see someone taking Noc or Smith as they are having relatively good years and are overvalued as well. Duhon on the other hand...I guess if he is an upgrade to a desperate team it is possible.  I am not sure if we actually get anything with this deal but we do get rid of things and get us in position for the coming years when some really talented players hit open season.  And perhaps by then Noah and Thomas and Deng will have kicked it up a notch.  

by cranscape on Jan 28, 2008 9:46 PM CST   0 recs

I wouldn't give up a lottery pick either
unless it gets Wallace off of the roster.
Nocioni-Khryapa in '08

by bullshooter on Jan 28, 2008 9:47 PM CST   0 recs

I know you wouldn't
another lottery pick would give you more opportunity to get in arguments over the wacky idea of playing them.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 28, 2008 10:26 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

not to mention
more chances for cute little snide remarks from you :-)
Nocioni-Khryapa in '08

by bullshooter on Jan 29, 2008 9:18 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

I like this
from many perspectives.  From a salary perspective, it makes sense since the Lakers will have to move a big contract in addition to Kwame's in order to get Kidd, and it's going to be hard for them to try to pawn off Vlad Rad.  The Nets are going to have to take at least one bad contract back in return, and Noce's seems to be one of the lesser evils in this category, except for the years (which would be a dealbreaker for me if I were the Nets).  The Bulls are obligated for that aggregate cap hit anyway, so might as well consolidate it into one player who frees up minutes at the 4.  From a talent perspective, the Bulls get significantly better.  I am not trying to sound crazy, but Odom would draw double-teams at the four, would rebound than anyone else on the team could, with the possible exception of Noah and Thomas closer to their potential, and would probably be the high scorer on the team and should be first option on offense.  He could put up sick numbers, maybe even 20 and 10, on the Bulls because there's such a glaring need for production out that spot.  Assuming he can stay healthy, of course.

by messwiththebull on Jan 28, 2008 10:37 PM CST   0 recs

Wow
This is a great trade, and one that really works for all teams. Nets get expirers, a young PG, and, uh, Noce. Kobe gets to play with Kidd. And I've always thought Odom was somewhat under-rated; not necessarily what you want as a second scoring option (as he was with the Lakers), but a decent third option, which, presumably, he could be if playing alongside Gordon and Deng. (And indeed, with the emergence of Bynum this year--and subsequent demotion of Odom to third option--the Lakers have been pretty good.) And having Wallace and Odom's salaries expire at the same time is also a nice ace in the hole. And finally, yes, clearing out one body in front of Ty would be good.  

This should really happen. I forsee a nightmare scenario, however, with all the GMs ready to pull the trigger, and then Pax suddenly backs out, saying, "I just couldn't trade Nocioni to a team in our conference."

by BenGo07 on Jan 28, 2008 11:59 PM CST   0 recs

definitely interesting
i kinda like it, i think odom would be a pretty decent fit on the remaining bulls squad; they could run the offense through him, and he can do what he does best which is essentially create for himself and others.  could lead to more open looks for deng and gordon when they're back too.  im not 100% certain that LA does the deal though; they'd be painfully thin up front for the rest of the year, but i guess they'd have to take a chance because the squad they have now probably isn't a realistic contender

bigger organizational question for the bulls: what to do in the future?  would you then extend deng and gordon and hope to land a big FA when odom and corpse come off the books?  completely gut the squad by signing and trading deng and/or gordon and hope to make a big splash when odom and corpse expire?  lots of directions to go from there.

by Mike C on Jan 29, 2008 12:01 AM CST   0 recs

I like Odom
and thought he was always a unique player that gives a little bit of everything( statically ) and could spread the floor better for Deng and BG. And Bostjan Nachbar has a good J and i think could be a key role player to a contending team or a playoff team, maybe even ship him out for another player like a Chris Wilcox but lets be real here, if Pax does this trade ill be happy for a couple of years knowing Pax is a bit hesitant to pull the trigger. But all around good trade for everyone.

by eross226 on Jan 29, 2008 1:02 AM CST   0 recs

I'd take this trade
Any trade that keeps the under-used young guys leaves this Bulls fan happy. And who knows, maybe Odom could score some points for us. I'm on board.

by ForWhomTheBullTolls on Jan 29, 2008 1:51 AM CST   0 recs

Not sure...
the lakers would do it (or any other team for that matter anyway).

Why would the lakers trade an emerging point guard (Farmar) and get rid of an important piece like Odom, just to get one or two good years from Kidd ?

At the moment, they are contenders for the title (with a healthy Bynum), and Kobe being far (I guess, but you never know) from being over-aged, they figure that the'll only get better with the continuous improvement from the youngs (Bynum, Farmar, ...).

If they do this trade, they shorten their window of opportunity for a title.

The Game chose him !

by Diabolo on Jan 29, 2008 2:54 AM CST   0 recs

Because Kobe
is getting older and doesn't have a huge window for a playoff run. Chances are that in the next two/three years Kobe/Kidd/Bynum would all have enough game in them to make a good run.

by cranscape on Jan 29, 2008 8:30 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

Now to get
this trade to Pax's desk.
Yes, the game is on in Iowa.

by sue369 on Jan 29, 2008 6:44 AM CST   0 recs

Amen to that
TMD- http://playahatersblog.blogspot.com

by TMD on Jan 29, 2008 10:00 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

Where do I sign up?
Just hoping we also see more of this from Lamar.

by paxson43 on Jan 29, 2008 7:01 AM CST   0 recs

My goal is to move Wallace
This trade, while interesting , doesn't move Wallace.  Noc is one of the few players giving effort.  With Deng out, maybe for an extended period, (I wouldn't be surprised if Deng isn't injured the rest of the year), we need Noc.  Odom has become very mediocre.  No deal for me.

by chgobr on Jan 29, 2008 7:33 AM CST   0 recs

"we need Noc"
for what?

If Deng's out for the majority of this season, it's doomed either way.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 29, 2008 9:08 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

Matt's probably correct
About Deng's presence/absence vis-à-vis the Bulls' success the rest of the season.

That said, I'm still not sure how Deng's being out for the remainder evinces a valid criticism of Matt's proposed Odom-acquisition.  With Odom, the Bulls would have a PF who - if healthy - is swift/skilled enough to handle significant playing minutes at SF; moreover, his defense at either position would have to better than what Nocioni provides.  In Matt's scenario, the Bulls would also add Nachbar to their SF depth, who could provide jump-shooting off the bench (though not as efficiently as Nocioni, which sounds weird to say), and would only be a third-option at SF if Deng can return.

I guess, personally, I'd just prefer the following lineup - on aesthetic grounds, as well as in terms of production-potential - to the non-Deng lineup the Bulls have been sending to the floor:

PG Hinrich
SG Sefolosha
SF Odom
PF Thomas
 C Noah/Wallace

Dumping Wallace, while a noble sentiment, is practically intractable; though there may be some viable scenario, I doubt Paxson has enough creativity to arrive to it.

by jpx7 on Jan 29, 2008 12:59 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

giving effort
if by "giving effort" you mean chucking shots at an insanely high rate, never closing out on your man, playing the defense of a 6th grader, and complaining to the officials at every call...then I'd say yep you're right!

by ScottieCartwright on Jan 29, 2008 9:59 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

That's one way to look at it
or you could look at it as giving consistent effort that translates into the 4th highest PER on the team behind Deng, Smith and Noah.
Nocioni-Khryapa in '08

by bullshooter on Jan 29, 2008 10:07 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

I look at it as PER being friendly
to high usage chuckers.
Fire Boylan!

by hscs on Jan 29, 2008 10:09 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

It is
Nocioni-Khryapa in '08

by bullshooter on Jan 29, 2008 10:24 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

PER
Noc has played in every game.  Deng has played 33 games, Noah has played 35, and Smith has old-man knees...so he should be HAPPY that he's 4th in that list??

That says nothing for him because in reality if he were THAT efficient, he'd be 1st among those

by ScottieCartwright on Jan 29, 2008 10:14 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

Deng has still played more minutes than Noc
and Smith isn't far behind.  So the minutes are about the same.
Nocioni-Khryapa in '08

by bullshooter on Jan 29, 2008 10:24 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

At first
I was all against your trade because ODOM isn't quite the guy I always thought he could have been, but then I looked at the lineup and thought, why the hell not.  We'll lose my favorite to watch Bull (Noc) and our very solid offseason pickup Smith, but we'll play the Odom cards that say if Kobe's out Odom's better.

I think having the flexibility of Odom with our smallish guards could really help us.  Odom can handle the ball and play anywhere from 1-4 (though is best suited for 3/4).  I like thinking we'd space the floor with Lamar, Sef, Gordon, Deng during some stretches, or even use Lamar's every other game rebounding strengths to play a very fast paced run and gun with Hinrich-Gordon-Sef-Deng-Odom......could be interesting too.

We've all seen Lamar when he's good (when he's on he's great)....

I'd hate to lose Noc though in this deal, and I DEFINATELY would not part with our first round draft picks for this deal because I don't think Odom's stock is high enough to warrant his salary or the loss of Nocioni, who's been more vital to our team than anyone else this year....(I know we're in last place, but we'd be nipping on Miami territory without Noc).

I still think I'd like to see a Deng/Gordon trade for a superstar......first.

by majoyenrac on Jan 29, 2008 7:49 AM CST   0 recs

Wasn't Odom a big part of
the O'Neal trade to Miami?

Let's book it!

by hhi on Jan 29, 2008 8:05 AM CST   0 recs

don't see
NJ taking this trade.  It's not like the Nets have to trade Kidd and they really get a lot of flotsam in this trade.  The nicer pieces (and I am including Odom) go elsewhere.  Not to mention, it's not like they are dying for another SF (call him a PF if you want but, ...come on).  And taking the productivity vortex that is Kwame Brown only adds to their "losing" column leaving the "gaining" column especially bare.
As for the Bulls making this trade, I would be fine with it.  Nocioni isn't worth anymore than Odom and Duhon/Smith won't be worth much for much longer.  I'm so sick of this team that it would be refreshing to deal some pieces.  Although, losing 'bright spots' Nocioni and Smith means we leave ourselves with more disappointments than we had before the deal.  But, at this poin, whatever.  
"...Keeping 'SlowHand' alive since aught-five"

by CookDing on Jan 29, 2008 8:14 AM CST   0 recs

Jordan Farmar struck many
as a goofy-looking, strange-sounding afterthought coming into the predraft camp, but he surprised a lot of people with his athleticism (Didn't he have one of the highest verticals at the camp?) and has continued to surprise in the nba.  Maybe he needs a sleeker head to make people believers.

Farmar is a good player.  Is Kidd better?  Yes.  And don't limit Kidd's career to only one or two more years.  His below-the-rim game could keep him in the game for a good five more years.

The question that jumps out from the Nets' perspective: Why in the world would they add Farmar AND Duhon when they already have Kidd's heir-apparent on the roster in Marcus Williams?  

Matt, this whole deal sounds like nothing more than a (not so veiled) attempt to move your nemesis off the Bulls roster.

by alec on Jan 29, 2008 9:46 AM CST   0 recs

Duhon's just an expiring contract
and reports indicate the Nets aren't thrilled with Marcus Williams anyway.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 29, 2008 9:48 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

I like this proposal
TMD- http://playahatersblog.blogspot.com

by TMD on Jan 29, 2008 10:02 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

Matt's right
Williams has Eddy Curry like physical fitness issues.  Clubs aren't sure if it's just a lack of effort or if Marcus Williams, like Curry, just isn't really into basketball for winning and more into it for the salary and lifestyle.

Marcus Williams was stealing notebook computers while on scholarship at UCONN.  He was a top prospect coming to UCONN.  He was the next of kin of  Ben Gordon.  He had amazing recruits around him.  you had all these pieces in place and the kid still had one thing on his mind, getting money.

by NBA Observer on Jan 29, 2008 12:21 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

Kidd
yeah, I agree he probably will be in the league for maybe 5 more years...but he will only be effective for maybe 2-3 of those 5.

by ScottieCartwright on Jan 29, 2008 10:04 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

Odom is wack
They hate him here in LA and for good reason.

He shows up about once every 4 games.

 Yeah, he's a stat filler but he couldn't give a shit about the game.

Once he lost his son a couple years ago, it killed any basketball motivation he once had.  

Plus his health is a another issue.

by Option27 on Jan 29, 2008 10:03 AM CST   0 recs

Losing his son...that's a tough thing,
and more than any father should have to bear.  I believe Odom's rep his entire career is summed up in your second sentence.  He is the consummate underachiever...a huge talent who just doesn't seem to care.  Even before he was drafted there was the pot-smoking stuff.  

There's no way in the world Paxson would ever invite Odom onto his team.

by alec on Jan 29, 2008 10:39 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

If so
Pax is just not cut out for this NBA GM thing.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 29, 2008 10:51 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

It's not like
One of those things where Pax is known to only bring in Pax kinda players.

I think Pax is at the point where he's willing to give up on some of his self loved players. If it will help the team.

But bringing in Odom won't help the team and that is what was meant. He isn't the guy that's gonna help your team out immediately or for the future.

Now if you're talking on just taking on a bad contract to match with Wallace's when both are up, then I'm sure there are plenty other options out there

by Option27 on Jan 29, 2008 10:55 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

I think the league is over what Odom could be
even underachieving, he can play. And it's not like he's been seen as a bad locker room influence (as if this team has steered clear of that, heh).

Nocioni shouldn't be on the 'loved' list for Pax. They could use guys who try less and play more.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 29, 2008 11:10 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

Odom does have a good game.
But if you love Tyrus, you'd better find a way to ensure that he and Tyrus were never left alone together in the same room.  

Tyrus is too impressionable, and Odom's laid-back, who-gives-a-shit attitude could infect Tyrus like an air-borne virus...with permanently disabling effects.

by alec on Jan 29, 2008 11:52 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

He was
really good as a color commentator maybe he should has stuck to that
TMD- http://playahatersblog.blogspot.com

by TMD on Jan 29, 2008 1:44 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

Changing scenery is what Odom does best
High schools?  Check.
Colleges?  Check.
NBA clubs?  Check.

by NBA Observer on Jan 29, 2008 12:17 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

I like the idea
of changing up the team, because a change is needed.  But, I don't think Odom is the answer.  And, I KNOW Nachbar isn't the answer!

Also, it doesn't seem like the Lakers are in too much of a hurry to go after Kidd.  The rumors are that the Mavericks have moved to the forefront in the race for Kidd.  They can't match up the contracts, as of yet, so perhaps the Bulls can hop onto that trade, and see if we can't get something out of that trade.  Now that I think of it, I wouldn't want part of that, considering Paxson would probably ask for Trenton Hassell or the washed-up Eddie Jones.  We already have enough of those guys on our team!

It is being said that Paxson is willing to trade Duhon, Khryapa, and Thomas.  Although, reports are saying that he won't trade Thomas "just to trade him."  I'm glad to see that he's not thinking like an NBA Live team owner, and that of an actual GM.  My guess is we make no deals that are worth any ink, seeing how we won't get much in return for Duhon and Khryapa.

by BigScott03 on Jan 29, 2008 10:28 AM CST   0 recs

getting in on a Dallas deal
the idea is taking the high-salaried piece the Nets wouldn't want. In the Mavs case that would mean taking (likely) Jason Terry. Or Jerry Stackhouse. Both have deals longer than Odom.

None of these guys are 'the answer', but I think it allows Tyrus or Noah to become that answer, and/or position the Bulls cap-wise to acquire that answer after the season (when Odom's an expiring deal).

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 29, 2008 10:35 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

What do you think of
trying to sway the Nets into giving us Jefferson?  Is his contract too big to consume, even if we can dump some of our longer year, higher pay salaries, along with other non-pertinent players (such as Duhon and Khryapa)?  I'm not sure the Nets would go for this, but if they were truly wanting to dump salaries, they might.  Although, I do know if they were going to start "rebuilding," they would have to find suitors for Vince Carter, as well, and that is unlikely to happen, so we would most likely end up with unwanted players in that trade.  

Oh well.  I guess we're just getting desperate now.

by BigScott03 on Jan 29, 2008 11:07 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

Why?
Kidd's not good enough anymore to push the Bulls into title contention.  He wouldn't want to be here as much as he doesn't want to be in NJ.

by snley on Jan 29, 2008 10:52 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

Not so sure
Kidd is a strong defender and a tremendous distributor, both of which would complement Gordon.  He also brings much needed backcourt size.  We get rid of the Corpse, freeing up time for the young frontcourt guys.  Kidd gets everyone the ball in position to score (TT gets oops, Deng gets passes slashing to the basket, Gordon gets passes off curls or spotting up).  The Bulls become more of a transition-oriented team, where they are able to take advantage of their athleticism and mask their lack of a half-court "go to" scorer.

Kidd, Duhon
Gordon, Thabo
Deng, Noc
Smith, TT
Noah, Gray

It could work.  It would definitely be more fun to watch.

Noah is a hussle machine, and Matt Duhon is our best guard.

by preverbal on Jan 29, 2008 11:05 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

Back court size? What the hell?
What's this obsession?
Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Jan 29, 2008 11:21 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

It's just a hot phrase
Everyone says the Bulls need backcourt size, so surely we can use it to justify stupid trade proposals.  Who cares if it's true or significant?

by snley on Jan 29, 2008 1:30 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

You're an ass
No analysis, just insults.  The thought was thrown out there for discussion.  No need to be a prick about it.

Backcourt size is significant.  Unless you like getting abused by big backcourts.  And its not some "hot" phrase that is currently in vogue for no reason.  It was, point of fact, a significant factor in the Bulls dynasty's domination, but judging by the tenor of your comments, you were probably being swaddled in the late 90's and missed it.

Noah is a hussle machine, and Matt Duhon is our best guard.

by preverbal on Jan 29, 2008 2:25 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

It's still ridiculous.
What does being big help? There's no inherent winning by simply being tall.
Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Jan 29, 2008 3:17 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

Its not inherent winning
Its a matchup advantage.  All other things being equal, size is an advantage in basketball.  This is not news.

Size is one reason why Gordon is a liability on defense.  It is why Hinrich frequently has to guard opposing 2s.  It is also a reason why he gets into such foul trouble -- he has to guard bigger and stronger players almost every game.

Noah is a hussle machine, and Matt Duhon is our best guard.

by preverbal on Jan 30, 2008 11:58 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

Pardon my insult.
My previous comment was harsh and, as you point out, I did not provide any analysis.  I think the issue of size in the backcourt is greatly overblown.  Yes, it'd be nice to see Thabo develop as a "big" defender when matchups warrant.  My problem, though, was the idea of trading the 6'3" Hinrich for the 6'4" Kidd is somehow adding size to our backcourt.  That one inch is minimal and doesn't address the real cause of lack of size in the Bulls backcourt: 6'3" Ben Gordon.  Plus, as Kidd's quickness and athleticism have diminished, is that going to create a need to also carry a smaller, quicker defensive specialist?

I may be quite younger than you, but that does not diminish the validity of my opinions.  Again, I apologize for analysis lacking from my previous post.  I am old enough, though, to have watched all 6 Bulls championship seasons.

by snley on Jan 29, 2008 3:40 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

No problem
And no, your age doesn't diminish your opinions.  Your last comment expressed a rational and reasoned opinion that can facilitate a continued discussion.

If you look at Hinrich and Kidd side by side, you will see that there is a significant size difference between them, not just height but physical bulk and strength.  Would that make a meaningful difference?  Maybe not, given that Matt thinks Kidd is no longer a strong defender.  I have only watched a handful of Nets games this year -- maybe he's fallen off.

Anyway, it was just a thought.

Noah is a hussle machine, and Matt Duhon is our best guard.

by preverbal on Jan 30, 2008 12:04 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

Size matters
when our primary obstacles to winning the East maintain an arsenal to exploit it.

by NBA Observer on Jan 29, 2008 2:54 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

well said
Noah is a hussle machine, and Matt Duhon is our best guard.

by preverbal on Jan 30, 2008 12:04 PM CST to parent up   0 recs