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Another problem with the Gordon 6th man experiment

It makes Chris Duhon a starter.

He's 4-20 from the field in this era of good feelings, and in 31 minutes against Orlando he scored one point.

It makes the times where he's out there with Ben Wallace seem self-defeating. And while we'd all like plenty of things to go different with Ben Wallace, he isn't going to the bench.

With the disastrous start that Hinrich had to start the year, it made Duhon's play seem better than it really was. He's still the same player he has been his whole career. A guy who should be a backup point, not a 3rd guard and never a starter.

Gordon's playing well too, but he did so against San Antonio in his final game as a starter. Could be he's just getting off of his usual bad start to a season. I don't think Gordon's a better player off the bench, and it's a stretching my sensibilities to think it was some sort of 'spark'.

But say it is, and then ask what's more important? Gordon 'finding himself' as a bench player? Or keeping Duhon out of the starting lineup?

If you believe both are necessary, then a trade is the best option. And hell if we're supposed to stomach the 'win now in the interim' edict, wouldn't an actual midseason trade for some guard help be a part of that?

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I think a trade is needed.
I think Gordon is an awesome sixth-man because he's somewhat one-dimensional. I think also, however, that the one thing he does well, scoring, is the biggest thing this team needs. If they could get someone that could score (arbitrary number) 85-90% of what he did while facilitating the offense and defending significantly better, Gordon would look awesome scoring 18-20 points in 25-30 minutes.

Basically, if Duhon could score an efficient 15 ppg, it wouldn't be such a bad idea. I have little doubt that's what they were hoping Sefolosha could do.

Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Jan 1, 2008 11:49 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Thabo
I still think he'll be a good pro, and I still think he'll compliment Hinrich and Gordon well.  At 6.7, he has the size he need to give Kirk a rest from the abuse he normally takes, and he can also (theoretically) bring the ball up while he's in there with Ben.  

Of course that's a huge set of parenthesis.  But no player got buried deeper and faster by Skiles than did Sefo. He was excellent in Europe over the summer, and very good in last year's playoffs.  And he did shoot silly string at one of our more persistent bloggers.

It's been well stated that for the Bulls to take the improve we need more from Tyrus and Noah in terms of both play and burn.  But that goes for Sefo, too.  

No trade before we give Thabo a shot!  

by Freethefro on Jan 2, 2008 7:46 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

pardon the typos
still a little off this morning.

jeez.

by Freethefro on Jan 2, 2008 7:47 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Thabo
I thought and posted before season that Thabo would be key to Bulls taking another step forward.  Unfortunately thats been a huge disappointment and he has not gotten playing time to even be a factor good or bad.  He looks to have the atheletism and size to have upside and an effect on the game for the Bulls but in offseason if Thabo doesn't come on this year they really will have to do something.  Bulls need at least 1 atheltic big guard who can be factor on both ends to compliment Kirk / Gordon.  Could also be factor in Bulls signing or trading Gordon

So without Thabo playing big bench mins at Guard, Duhon has played ok, emphisis on ok.  The problem is (fairly clear I think) that Duhon is not the type of player that will win you games and make Bulls a contender.  

by NY Chicago Fan on Jan 2, 2008 8:48 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

They should trade Thabo
to some team that thinks they can 'fix' him. Especially with this 'playoffs!' run that Pax and Boylan are preaching.

It's not like he's posting these sub-10 PERs out of high school, he's going to be 24 in May.

I usually say that the 'big guard' problem isn't such a big deal, but trading Thabo isn't a big deal either, and they can't keep having Hinrich/Gordon/Duh playing all game while Thabo and Griffin are just wasting space.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 2, 2008 10:41 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Another Duhon stat
10 assists and 1 turnover in three games.  I'd like Duhon to be a scorer too, but it's not like 15ppg guys who generally play good defense and can run a team grow on trees.

So sure, a trade is needed, but in the sense that you'd always like to have better players.  To put it differently, I'm not at all sure the Bulls would be better off with Ricky Davis or Nate Robinson, each of whom could easily put up 15 points in a night.

--------

I think what's really being masked by the change is the improved play of Hinrich, who has 27 assists to 5 TOs since Boylan took over.  It's only 3 games of course, so we'll see if that trend continues.  I wonder if it's nothing, if it's due to Boylan, or even if it's due to some kind of problem these guys have with Gordon or vice versa.

by Sports2 on Jan 2, 2008 7:49 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

Well with all the whining of 'playing 4 on 5'
With Duhon it's 3.5 on 5

And I think we can safely let Hinrich run the team now.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 2, 2008 9:15 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Bulls roster
One thing that seems to be happening is the Bulls are shortenning up their rotation to not play as many guys.  Gordon off the bench also makes Duhon a starter as Matt points out as Thabo has not gained Bulls trust.  The problem I see is the Bulls strengh is not having 1 or 2 all stars or even 7 great guys that should be getting all the mins.  The Bulls strengh is their team depth but that might also be their problem is who do you play?  They have too many okay players and not enough good ones.  I think it might be better if they could make 1 or more moves to remove some of this depth and clean up the confusion on who should play and what their roles are.  

by NY Chicago Fan on Jan 2, 2008 8:59 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

or the minutes shouldn't be determined
by weighting "steady veteran presence" so heavily. Thomas and Noah are productive players who have been buried without a good reason. Smith's legs are going to fall off, Nocioni and his usage should be used more sparingly, and Duhon offers little (and he's really little). Trading for crap to fill the bench isn't a solution when the crap is all over the court way too much.
Fire Boylan!

by hscs on Jan 2, 2008 9:31 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

don't trade for crap
I agree, the Bulls shouldn't trade for crap, it just seems if you aren't going to use Thomas, Noah, Thabo that they need to trade 1 or more of them with Noc, Duhon, Griffen, and or Krappy and get someone they want to use

I would like to see Noah and Thomas both get mins for sure at expense of PF Noc, Smith, Wallace and Gray.  And if Bulls don't want Thabo then they should find a way eventually to get another guard so Duhon doesn't have to play so much and Deng doesn't get put at SG.

My complaint is if Bulls don't think they can play both Noah and Thomas then they need to make a move to get a better PF or SG that would get major mins (assumption here is that Kirk, Deng, Wallace is core for this season) and remove this "depth" of players

by NY Chicago Fan on Jan 2, 2008 11:42 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Duhon is too easy
I'm sure Matt is a little frosty over the Jameer Nelson crossover, drive, and hoop.  I am.

The last thing asked of Chris Duhon is to score.  His role on this team has always been to slow the opposing offense, hit open three point attempts, and distribute the basketball.  If there is one guy that has performed his role this season it is Chris Duhon.  Is it a contract year again already?

The Magic are better on the road than at home and we pretty much could have taken the 12/31 game.  We cheated down again off three point shooters when it wasn't necessary and it cost us the game.

We did see how vital Ben Wallace is to winning in the the East.  If your front court cannot muscle Dwight Howard on the low block you don't stand a chance against the Magic.  Howard would have had 10 dunks if Ben Wallace didn't play.

by NBA Observer on Jan 2, 2008 9:18 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

so is it a surprise that the worst offense
in the league has two players who shouldn't be asked to score playing prominent roles?

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 2, 2008 9:50 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Like it or not
Chris Duhon failed where we asked him to perform, where we know he can perform, on defense.  I'm not looking at 1-6 from the field as a net loser for Duhon.  It's when he gives up the go ahead layup that I am faulting him.

In the end, bitch and moan when Ben Wallace doesn't do the things we ask him to do, that we know he can do.  Ditto for Chris Duhon.

This roster is not, nor was it, constructed to out score opponents.  It's designed to slow opponents, convert mistakes into buckets, and force the opponent to play our pace and not their pace.

by NBA Observer on Jan 2, 2008 10:11 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Offensively Du has been horrible.
When Du is as offensively challenged as he has been we are playing 3 against 5 with Wallace in the line-up. Du was 0-6 FG and 1-3 FT on Monday against Orlando.  Against the defenseless Knicks he was 3-9FG and 0-2FT.  Against Milwaukee he was 1-5 with 0-0 FT.  We would have won the game against Orlando if he was 1-6FG or made another FT.  It seems that he is a deer looking into headlights as a starter.

My question isn't that we need an improvement but who is this going to be?  Bibby comes to mind but that would be quite a stretch.  I'm open to suggestions.

by chgobr on Jan 2, 2008 9:30 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

Bibby
Bibby is the opposite of Kirk Hinrich.  Both players now command 10+ mil per.  Bibby is the offense.  Hinrich is the defense.

I'd rather have Hinrich.  No team really can have both at their present salaries.

by NBA Observer on Jan 2, 2008 10:06 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Why get another PG anyway?
They're already paying one $10m, impurities and all.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 2, 2008 10:12 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

agree!
Unless they trade Kirk then he is the PG.  You can't win with that much $s tied into 1 position.  And Kirk seems to be playing better recently and has been good in past.  Maybe is overpaid since he doesn't seem to have much upside but his contract was frontloaded so will get better with age

by NY Chicago Fan on Jan 2, 2008 11:45 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I don't quite understand
why Duhon has all of a sudden become this whipping boy because since the beginning of the season, he has been the only consistent player that the Bulls had. Now that the core three are playing well, it shouldn't negate the fact that Duhon plays very good defense and is the best point guard we have in terms of running the offense. Hinrich is a better athlete/scorer..but he's not miles ahead of Duhon in scoring by any stretch.

As far as the original comment on Gordon, I like Gordon's offensive ability, but he he still is a average, to below average ball handler and forces way too many shots. Not to mention a below aberage defender. I wish more of the Bulls players ( deng, not Noc ) had Gordon's fearlessness down the stretch. I can't believe Deng could not wait to pass the ball with Turkoglu guarding him. Take it to the hole on him before he does on you Deng!

Gordon is playing starter minutes, does it really matter that he's not involved in the early stages of the game? The 90's Bulls always started the game feeding Bill Cartwright but that never lasted past the initial 5 minutes. It was always Michael/Scottie when it came to crunch time.

by RogersPark Kris on Jan 2, 2008 9:42 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

Cut Du's time by half
I don't mind Duhon starting, I mind the extended minutes he is getting with next to no offensive benefits.  With Duhon in with Wallace for extensive periods of time we are playing 3 on 5 way too much.  Cut Duhon's minutes in half and he still gets to help set the tone of the first five minutes, but doesn't suck us dry down the stretch.  

by cranscape on Jan 2, 2008 9:49 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

One bad game or really one bad play
in the second game of a back to back against a really good Magic team.  And really, the only things Duhon did badly were miss the open three and not get in front of Nelson when Duhon probably expected Ben Wallace to be in the paint, not defending above the three point line.  It was a really good play call.  Give the Magic some credit.

Plus, if Du reverts back to mediocre play, it should open up time for Thabo.  Unfortunately, BG's inability to handle the ball necessitate Du playing at least 20 min/game.

Nocioni-Khryapa in '08

by bullshooter on Jan 2, 2008 9:49 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

"reverts back to mediocre play"?
When did he leave it?
Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Jan 2, 2008 9:54 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

There's no hope
for some people.
Nocioni-Khryapa in '08

by bullshooter on Jan 2, 2008 10:08 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

As in...
...there's no hope Duhon will ever be better than mediocre? I concur!
Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Jan 2, 2008 10:11 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

no shit
Duhon PER:

2004-05: 9.87
2005-06: 12.95
2006-07: 11.94
2007-08: 10.80

Even if you give him credit for defense, it's actually not-quite mediocre.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 2, 2008 10:14 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Why Duhon is in, especially with BG.
Player    Hands Rating    Passing Rating
BG         2.9                 12.5
Hinrich    7.5                 15.7
Duhon    10.1               20.5

82games.com
Nocioni-Khryapa in '08

by bullshooter on Jan 2, 2008 10:48 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

That's true
nobody makes the pinpoint pass to Ben Wallace with the shotclock running down like Duhon :)

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 2, 2008 10:50 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Good point
I think you got me there.  On the other hand, nobody throws the ball to the tenth row over Deng's head on the break like BG :-p
Nocioni-Khryapa in '08

by bullshooter on Jan 2, 2008 10:55 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I agree
that the Nelson layup was as much Wallace's fault.

I didn't even mention it in the post, I'm looking at the forest here, the 'Duhon still sucks' forest.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 2, 2008 10:10 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

"BG's inability to handle the ball"
Just so everyone knows: Gordon's at the lowest turnover rate in his career, and lower than Chris Duhon for that matter.

Yes, Duhon has a supremely higher assist rate, I'm just pointing out that the Gordon turnovers may be still sad to watch but there's been fewer of them this season.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 2, 2008 10:22 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

He's had fewer turnovers
but more bad shooting games. Plus his turnovers have been amplified because they come in the worse moments.

by RogersPark Kris on Jan 2, 2008 10:26 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

very reasonable
the turnover amplification metric. sounds totally made-up and stupid, but i say you stick with it.
Fire Boylan!

by hscs on Jan 2, 2008 10:28 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Gordon is a poor ball handler/passer
How is his turnovers not amplified? He is the primary ball handler during the last seconds of the shot clock! I guess that is too fucking too stupid for a simpleton like yourself to understand.

But go ahead, stick to being a pompous insult spewing asshole.

by RogersPark Kris on Jan 2, 2008 10:38 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

From now on
a BG turnover will be accompanied by some NBA Jam style sound effect: "AMPLIFIED!"

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 2, 2008 10:42 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Matt, I know you hate "cross-sporting,"
but since Boylan himself made a football analogy to explain a play in the Knick's game, I will reference a standard football stat -- 4th quarter QB efficiency.  It reflects a QB's ability to play in crunch time.  

I know you're trying to be a kinder, gentler blogger in 2008 (although, based on the evidence, the same can't, I suppose, be said about hscs), and I realize it's hard to break old habits, but all RPK is saying is that Ben's secondary skills (ball-handling, passing, probably defense, too) seem to go down when the pressure goes up.  

Now, I can't say I particularly condone RPK's carpet-bombing retaliation to your response, but his point is certainly not frivolous.  Pressure affects different players differently.  What's the big deal?  

by alec on Jan 2, 2008 11:05 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

can't let it pass (pun?)
"Ben's secondary skills (ball-handling, passing, probably defense, too) seem to go down when the pressure goes up. "

I can't just assume that as truth.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 2, 2008 11:09 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

82games.com sides with Matt:
BG "Crunch time"
Passing rating 5.4
'Hands' rating 17.1
http://www.82games.com/0708/07CHI3E.HTM

Both higher than non-"crunch time"

(although I still don't like their definition of crunch time)

"I believe. I believe. It's silly, but I believe." (Miracle on 34th Street)

by wjb1492 on Jan 2, 2008 11:16 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

the big deal is
Gordon is the only player with the ball late in close games. It's easy to look bad, and if you're gong to play sports sykologizte, why not analyze what's going through the minds of the players who never show up in the 4th quarter?
Fire Boylan!

by hscs on Jan 2, 2008 11:13 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Deng's excuse
He plays too damn much because they never give him a rest in the second half.  He played 86 minutes this weekend.  Sure he's 22, but he's bound to get tired at some point.  Seems like they could find a way to play Thabo at the 3 for 4 minutes at the end of the 3rd start of the 4th.
Nocioni-Khryapa in '08

by bullshooter on Jan 2, 2008 11:19 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

screw the Swiss Willie Green
Nocioni can play small forward.
Fire Boylan!

by hscs on Jan 2, 2008 11:23 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

sounds good to me
Noc should be backing Deng up and a little rest for Deng would probably be good.  Bulls should play Noc less at PF - give those mins to Thomas and keep him ready to replace Deng

by NY Chicago Fan on Jan 2, 2008 11:49 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Unfortunately, Noc is probably
going to be perceived now as having gotten back on track in the Orlando game.  One more excuse removed for getting him out of there.  

by alec on Jan 2, 2008 11:56 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

You want Noc playing as well as he can
because his is the contract that the bulls use to even any trade out.  You don't want teams balking because they don't want Noc's contract.
Nocioni-Khryapa in '08

by bullshooter on Jan 2, 2008 12:54 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Makes sense
...the old cliché about being stuck between Scylla and Charybdis.      

by alec on Jan 2, 2008 1:02 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

T2 at SF
You could play Tyrus at the 3 when Ben Gordon is in the game as well.  Since Gordon likes the high screen or the high wing screen on the left side, T2 or Noc can come in to play the 3.

Like Stacey King has been saying during broadcasts, that high screener if it's Noc or T2 or Wallace needs to flash into the paint every now and then to pull the defender off Gordon.  If the defender stays with Gordon it should create the lane for a lob pass.

by NBA Observer on Jan 2, 2008 11:39 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

What about defense
There are plenty of 3s that either recieve the ball at the perimeter or can shoot from there, as well as drive it in. Tyrus is good both offensively and defensively in the post, but there might be problems for him once he gets say 20 ft away from the rim, especially defensively.
im trying hard to become the next kirk hinrich, therefore im doing nothing more than being the next chris duhon.

by piccolomair on Jan 2, 2008 4:26 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Didn't say they were worse.
Could it be that he only meant they seemed worse because of when they tend to happen?
Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Jan 2, 2008 10:47 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Ben Gordon's quote about Boylan
`taking the pressure off' has been widely and repeatedly printed in the Chicago press.  I've been looking for the same quote from other guys and so far have not found it.  Taking this at face value all we can really say is that since Boylan took over Gordon is feeling less pressure.  One might reasonably wonder, "What's different?"

God and Matt know I am normally loathe to read more meaning into a situation than appears on the surface, but just this once I'll attempt to slip slightly beneath.  

Here's what I think really happened in the private meeting between Boylan and Gordon.  Boylan pulled him aside and said, "Listen, Ben, I know this is a contract year for you, and you want to show the world you have a complete game.  You want to show you can take away the perimeter from the big shooting guards; you want to showcase your set-up skills, your no-look, behind-the-back passes; and you want to prove you can play the point, bring the ball up court, beat the press...but you know what?--All I care about is that you score.  I want you to just fire at will.  And to prove I mean it, I'm going to let Duhon and Kirk worry about defending, slowing down and throwing off the opposing guards at the start of the game.  Once those guys have established a defensive structure, I'll bring you in to demoralize them with your offense."

So the `pressure' that Boylan took off Ben was really the pressure Ben was putting on himself to play outside of his comfort zone.

The beneficent by-product of this plan is that it has coincidentally taken the pressure off Kirk to defend both guard spots simultaneously.  Now, he can leave one player in the capable Duhon's defensive hands, and only worry about his assignment.  Consequently, Kirk is playing more relaxed, too, and as a result, his natural game is coming Back to him.  

Nice job, Boylan.          

by alec on Jan 2, 2008 10:09 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

Smiles
Ben Gordon smiled a lot in the Orlando game.  Have you seen him that content all season?

by NBA Observer on Jan 2, 2008 10:14 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Will he be smiling
when he realizes he's stuck on the bench all year?

by Option27 on Jan 2, 2008 10:32 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

or would he be smiling
if Boylan really told him 'you don't have a chance to be an all-around player, so don't even try anymore'?

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 2, 2008 10:33 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

If by stuck on the bench
you mean, playing the most minutes, then yes, he'd be smiling I think.
Nocioni-Khryapa in '08

by bullshooter on Jan 2, 2008 10:51 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

heh
I was thinking that too...
im trying hard to become the next kirk hinrich, therefore im doing nothing more than being the next chris duhon.

by piccolomair on Jan 2, 2008 4:28 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I agree that Gordon seems
to have more free reign.

But can't it be done in the starting lineup? You say "defending, slowing down and throwing off" to start the game, but I read 'stay close or fall behind'.

I just don't get the point in benching a better player just to have him go against a 2nd unit. Why don't the Celtics sit Paul Pierce? He'd be deadly! The Bulls don't have enough weapons to be so devious in their deployment.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 2, 2008 10:26 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

You say "better player,"
and I won't argue against Gordon being the better player, but I would also say they're both (Gordon and Duhon) "situational" players.  I think Boylan has Gordon playing his ideal role: off-the-bench, instant offense.  Boylan has allowed Gordon to clear his mind and just shoot.  Could we do better than Duhon starting at the other guard from Hinrich?  Yes, absolutely.   I'm still hopeful that Boylan can find a way to get Thabo untracked.  The Bulls best three guard rotation, based on talent, has got to be Hinrich, Gordon and Sefolosha.

by alec on Jan 2, 2008 10:46 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I think Gordon's better than 'situational'
but that's a difference of opinion.

But for a team that needs offense, play the situational offense guy.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 2, 2008 10:48 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

if you need offense
wouldn't you want to tailor your approach to highlight the strengths of your best offensive players?  Dribbling and distributing take away from what BG does best.
Nocioni-Khryapa in '08

by bullshooter on Jan 2, 2008 10:52 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

OT : Yi Jianlian
He is gonna be damn good. I miss the idea of getting him

by Option27 on Jan 2, 2008 10:43 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

Option27 you have been consistent
with your views on Yi Jianlian for two years.  He appears to be inconsistent but has shown flashes.  It would not surprise me if he becomes an impact player furthering your reputation as one of the few blogabullers to call this correctly.

by chgobr on Jan 2, 2008 11:04 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

and he's stuck on a team with so many issues
He's a naturally good defensive player. I've been impressed.

by KT on Jan 2, 2008 11:10 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Yi
I've seen him play a few games this year other than against the Bulls.  I have been impressed.  Atleast the Bulls didn't pass on him and took what was left at nine.  Has his age ever been confirmed?

by Jesse07 on Jan 2, 2008 1:59 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

tells ya what
If they trade for Gasol, then they stay with this cute idea and can play Gordon off the bench. Until then I'm going to keep sounding the drum of whining about it.

Or, if they start Duhon for 1 posession (tank the jump ball so it's a defensive one) before bringing in Gordon. That way we successfully tricked Gordon into 'bench player mode' with minimal damage to the team.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 2, 2008 10:58 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

it'll be him or Tyrus
I doubt Memphis can do a deal without at least one young big. Maybe send an Aaron Gray mixtap with commentary provided by Red Kerr.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 2, 2008 11:10 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

gah, but your point remains
This organization is a big pile of shit for not playing either of them.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 2, 2008 11:11 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

If you get JCN back
you could put Sefo and Gray in there instead.  Hell, if TT had any consistency in his game, I'd put Deng in there instead of BG and put TT at the 3 where he wants to play anyway.
Nocioni-Khryapa in '08

by bullshooter on Jan 2, 2008 11:16 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

It would have to be Tyrus traded
Instead of Joakim.

Remember we will need a replacement for Wallace eventually and I don't want Gasol to be his replacement or Tyrus.

Someone that plays like Wallace...Noah

by Option27 on Jan 2, 2008 12:38 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I don't think the Bulls would mind
giving up Noah.  I got the feeling around the draft that the bulls were really hoping Milwaukee would be scared away from taking Jianlian, and that he'd drop to the Bulls.  I think they settled on Noah primarily as an asset, and they'd be delighted if they could package him in a deal to get Gasol.

by alec on Jan 2, 2008 11:27 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

unfortunately
this franchise doesn't know their asset from their asshole.

(it sounded better in my head)

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 2, 2008 11:38 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Pax would have drafted Yi over Noah
I have no sources I can name.  It's unlikely that Paxson will ever make a comment confirming this.

by NBA Observer on Jan 2, 2008 4:33 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

would make Gray fans happy
looks like trade would make Gray the backup for Wallace, I guess Thomas would take mins at PF and SF with Noc gone so that would be good

Definitely changes the team, not sure for better or not.

Does seem like a shame that the Bulls haven't been able to use all these draft choices and depth to pull off something that is really in their favor

by NY Chicago Fan on Jan 2, 2008 11:54 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Does Thomas see 30 mpg then?
Probably not.
Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Jan 2, 2008 11:46 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

eh, he'd do alright
as the main frontcourt sub. He can play with Wallace , with Gasol (who'd shift to C in a smaller lineup), and with Noc gone he'd get some minutes backing up Deng as well. Aaron Gray becomes the reserve who guards (fouls) beheamoths.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 2, 2008 11:59 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I love Gasol comments...
Atleast Tyrus would have noone blocking his "development".  I cannot believe the Bull's aren't showcasing there young talent to move with Noce.  

by Jesse07 on Jan 2, 2008 2:12 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

How many jumpballs do they win?
Just curious. Doesn't seem as if Joe Smith and Ben Wallace would be winning a lot.
Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Jan 2, 2008 11:18 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

All right, Charlotte's in town
I'm already looking at the Portland game.  I want to get a full game watching Travis Outlaw who is basically playing a role in Portland that T2 should already be able to perform for Chicago right now.  Go to the open space, when a guard dribble penetrates crash the paint for lob pass, a putback, or a tapout to create a new possession.

by NBA Observer on Jan 2, 2008 11:24 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

easier said than done
we have to get a guard who can penetrate or hit a cutting man first.  

by davebino on Jan 2, 2008 1:17 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

we have this now
The high screen sets this up.

by NBA Observer on Jan 2, 2008 4:30 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Considering Outlaw is in his 5th year
of what has been a very gradual move from barely playing to fairly consistent production, I'd say this bodes well for being a little patient with Ty and his development.

I'm among the people who'd like to see Ty get a little more (and more consistent) playing time, but it's not like the kid doesn't have a lot of years left to do incredible things.  

"I believe. I believe. It's silly, but I believe." (Miracle on 34th Street)

by wjb1492 on Jan 2, 2008 3:21 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Some of you
have whining down to a fine art.
Win, just win.

by sue369 on Jan 2, 2008 3:10 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

yeah, but the thing is
you have no control over what gets posted on the blog.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 2, 2008 3:13 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Let me re-read
what I posted.... Nope didn't say I did have control.
Win, just win.

by sue369 on Jan 2, 2008 3:28 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

You're funny.
Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Jan 2, 2008 3:56 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Personally, I'm feeling really relaxed lately,
something I attribute directly to Boylan's laid-back attitude.  ;)  

It may be fleeting or illusory, but after the misery of the first several weeks of the season I'm willing to ride the "basketball is fun" wave as long as it lasts.  

"I believe. I believe. It's silly, but I believe." (Miracle on 34th Street)

by wjb1492 on Jan 2, 2008 3:29 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Looks like the
players are playing more relaxed too. It's nice to see smiles out here when they are playing. The players said they are having fun too and it is showing. Hope it continues.
Win, just win.

by sue369 on Jan 2, 2008 3:42 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

It's all about entertainment
when you get right down to it.  :)

by KT on Jan 2, 2008 4:19 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I still can't believe you like Hinrich.
If he's not the whiniest little ___ on the basketball court... Did you see that foul on Nelson's 3-point shot? Was it not obvious? Does he not having feeling in his fingertips so he couldn't tell that he hit him? And then that ugly ass pouting like a 2-year-old Rasheed Wallace jumping around. It's quite pathetic.

Double standards make life more interesting, though, I guess.

Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Jan 2, 2008 3:56 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Guess what?
If you think I care what your opinions are guess again.
Win, just win.

by sue369 on Jan 2, 2008 4:00 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Now you're hilarious!!!
Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Jan 2, 2008 4:03 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

You know, watching the other day
I was thinking that Kirk has actually toned it down on the response to foul calls.  He's had several lately where he just walked away - I'm not going to hold it against anyone for looking disgusted if they think they didn't foul, but it's a far cry from the arms thrown in the air, jawing at the ref reaction.

And honestly, I'm not sure anyone can ever even aspire to the "Sheed reaction."

"I believe. I believe. It's silly, but I believe." (Miracle on 34th Street)

by wjb1492 on Jan 2, 2008 4:14 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Well,
Are you sure you aren't just being swayed by Scottie Pippen's recent critiques of the players?

Seriously, you got me there.  Noc has the arm-waving, nostril-flaring, wild-eyed run at the ref down perfectly.

"I believe. I believe. It's silly, but I believe." (Miracle on 34th Street)

by wjb1492 on Jan 2, 2008 4:23 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

pouting to losing relativity?
Perhaps there is a correlation between pouting and losing because I had notice Kirk tone it down as of late too.

by NBA Observer on Jan 2, 2008 4:29 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

truthiness at hand
Yes.  The whining is obvious.

by NBA Observer on Jan 2, 2008 4:31 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Whining continued...
I propose that Thabo Sefolosha be renamed "Thab" Sefolosha until he finds his "o."  This may be a permanent name change.

by davebino on Jan 2, 2008 4:38 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Things go better with Duhon...
Thats not to say that Duhon is a starter
in this league but it is absolutely true
that when he is in the lineup with Hinrich
we get less over-dribbling from Kirk and
all around better movement without the ball
from everybody.  Im not endorsing Gordon
on the bench but this has been true about
Duhon ever since he's been on the team
so when you've got a crappy point guard
in Hinrich and a one dimensional player
in Gordon whattya do?  It'll be hard to
trade Gordon now and when you couple that
with guy like Thabo not playing anything
like Pax expected and Thomas not really
knowing anything about basketball then
the sky will be thick with chickens coming
home to roost for at least the rest of
this year.

by Rusty LaRue on Jan 2, 2008 5:20 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

I realize...
that it is the job of a blogger to beat their points home, but jesus, give it a rest.  If Gordon gets 33-35 minutes, who cares, if he is starting or coming off of the bench.  If Duhon is even slightly better on defense against points (which he is) and Gordon is allowed to continue his output (which has been the case so far) than it would seem that your complaints are purely for the sake of saying something. If Ben Gordon coming off of the bench motivates him to play better than it is a good move, he is our best offensive weapon and 21 one night and 11 the next isn't cutting it.

Talk about this once Ben Gordon actually plays worse or the Bulls get destroyed by point guard play.

by Kemp on Jan 2, 2008 6:45 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Gordon and his agent care..
Whether he plays better on the bench isn't the
issue its how he perceives it as he tries to
pimp  himself a new $50 mill+ contract.
Doesn't make it right but it  does make it
reality

by Rusty LaRue on Jan 2, 2008 7:58 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Wah wah wah.
Ok, so our options are attempting to minimize the defensive deficiencies and maximize the offensive capabilities of a player to WIN GAMES or pandering to his ego.  

If he is that flawed of a player, where he can only score with a fire under his ass, then he isn't getting resigned, or isn't getting resigned at the amount he wants, in the first place.  

Thus this is doing two things; the first is helping the Bulls WIN GAMES and the second is making his trade value rise. If he continues average 22+ until the trade deadline, maybe Gordon/Noc/over hyped kid X can give us a player worth bitching about.

by Kemp on Jan 3, 2008 12:04 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Dealing with contracts..
is a fact of life for every GM whether you or I like it or not.

Gordon isn't likely to increase his trade value unless he
grows 4 inches.  Everyone  in the NBA knows exactly what
he's about and they know Pax is in a bad bind because  of
pix that haven't panned out.  Nobody is going to trade
for a guy that'll be on the market soon.  Unless he's part
of a fire sale deal Gordon is going to be Pax's headache
for some time to come.

by Rusty LaRue on Jan 3, 2008 6:17 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

if you're implying that
Matt is employed by BG's agent to continue bitching, then I agree ;-)
Nocioni-Khryapa in '08

by bullshooter on Jan 3, 2008 10:12 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

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