Taking ownership, take two
Sam Smith first broke the story last night that there was an altercation between Noah and Wallace over the latter's attitude during yet another blowout loss on Tuesday. Mike McGraw of the Herald says it occurred during halftime.
In isolation, I don't have that big of a problem with guys not looking all sad-faced every time they lose. They're millionaires and were planning their upcoming night in south beach.
But that just further shows how ludicrous it was to give these guys say in anything.
Meanwhile, as far as the game's concerned, I watched 2.5 quarters, but it's little surprise that a starting lineup of Duhon/Sefolosha/Deng/Smith/Wallace lacked scoring. Boylan says it lacked 'effort', naturally.Not that Wallace didn't lack effort individually. But it seems the solution is always to throw the same thing out there and hope for the best, instead of changing personnel.
One other observation from last night was the Ben Gordon at point guard thing (Hinrich was out) was a sad watch, and Gordon/Deng/Noc/Noah/Wallace is 5 guys who can't really, how you say, dribble?
At least the behind-the-scenes stuff is getting interesting.
0 recs |
132 comments
Comments
Noah denied the confrontation
Ah well.
At least they're providing us with some sort of entertainment.
by KT on Jan 16, 2008 9:02 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
KT, if I'm not mistaken,
by alec on Jan 16, 2008 9:35 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You can listen
by sue369 on Jan 16, 2008 9:49 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Chicago radio
by KT on Jan 16, 2008 9:50 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
agreed on McGraw
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 16, 2008 9:55 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Joakim Noah on Mike North's show this morning
http://www.670thescore.com/episode_download.php?contentType=36&contentId=1295483
Noah laughs off the last question; did Luol Deng separate you and Wallace in the locker room?
Listen for yourself. Noah doesn't really deny that it happened. Smith and McGraw both reported on the altercation. John Jackson of the Sun-Times did not.
by NBA Observer on Jan 16, 2008 9:03 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
You're lying.
by tyger1147 on Jan 16, 2008 9:23 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Noah
I don't believe him, but that's what he says
by ScottieCartwright on Jan 16, 2008 10:15 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
When does he say this?
"Reports say..<north reads quotes>
what? - Noah
<North commentary>
so didn't it happen? - North
laughing..No way..laughing - Noah"
That's it. Where is the "there was no clash" quote?
by NBA Observer on Jan 16, 2008 10:30 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Dribbling
Deng - also a poor dribbler in traffic, this holds him back as he is not able to attack basket as well off the dribble and create shots / space
I agree that Bulls shouldn't be crying on bench but I hope they at least hate to lose and are embarrassed by this mess. They might not have talent to win East but they are obviously not playing up to potential despite the crazy lineups and messed up playing time. It seems like they are about to implode and that the coaching change has not done enough to shake and wake up team. Probably because same players are playing and "leading" the team. Although I do like Thabo at least getting some burn, its shame that Bulls draft Thomas and then fail to figure out how to utlize and help him grow
by NY Chicago Fan on Jan 16, 2008 9:03 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
I hope the other local media outlets
I don't listen to radio during the day, but if the story does get talked about I'd appreciative it if someone could post a link to it or summarize it for the rest of us.
by alec on Jan 16, 2008 9:06 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Well, so much for trade value
by bullshooter on Jan 16, 2008 9:15 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
RE: Well, so much for trade value
by Jobu on Jan 16, 2008 9:36 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree
Forgot to add this to my 'key' observations, but the other obvious one was bad close-outs on 3 point shooters. Especially from the bigs, Smith had a hard time on Lewis, and Noah kept allowing Brian Cook to shoot.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 16, 2008 9:44 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The closeout issue
by bullshooter on Jan 16, 2008 9:57 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
It says
on Howard and Orlando found the open shooters.
Made 'em pay.
by Rusty LaRue on Jan 16, 2008 3:23 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
that too
by bullshooter on Jan 16, 2008 5:26 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
i really dont
by tyrus4prez on Jan 16, 2008 10:03 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
maybe you should read a scouting report
by bullshooter on Jan 16, 2008 10:04 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Cook has an outside shot.
by alec on Jan 16, 2008 10:33 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
what I meant by that is
by tyrus4prez on Jan 16, 2008 10:43 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I can't
The scouting report on Cook is that he has no low post game. Has poor footwork. He's slow. He rebounds at an average level. But don't leave him from 15-19'. This is the only area of the court he can excel. He spreads the floor, pulls bigs out of the paint, and waits for a pass from either the PG off the perimeter screen or the kick out from the low post player.
This completely went over the heads of the Chicago coaching staff despite the fact that they've already seen Cook once this season.
by NBA Observer on Jan 16, 2008 11:05 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Plus, he did the same thing
by alec on Jan 16, 2008 11:08 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
How do we access ESPN material?
Can we steal, er borrow, these recordings? It would nice if someone leaked them to the press.
Are the coaches even using scouting reports anymore?
by NBA Observer on Jan 16, 2008 11:10 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
i heard
Just like I said when Skiles was still the coach, the Bulls have the worst staff in the league at making in game changes/tweaks/adjustments...especially defensively.
They will get burned by the same play at least 4 times in a row before they even RECOGNIZE it, let alone try to make an adjustment and stop it.
Part of this falls on the staff but part falls on the players. They know how teams play, they know certain opposing players' strengths and weaknesses, they know what sets other teams like to run...but we never see them adjust.
So to answer your question...NO, I don't think scouting reports are used anymore...at least not by the Bulls staff.
by ScottieCartwright on Jan 16, 2008 11:17 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
wow that's dumb
by bullshooter on Jan 16, 2008 11:25 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
i take it
you're an idiot...go away
by ScottieCartwright on Jan 16, 2008 11:30 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
you say so many outlandish things
by bullshooter on Jan 16, 2008 11:42 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
pot calling the kettle black
I didn't feel a smiley was needed for that last sentence...i didn't think anyone was THAT slow to not see the sarcasm...sorry.
by ScottieCartwright on Jan 16, 2008 11:46 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Boys, boys.
Sorry, I'm used to chaperoning 6th grade parties.
by alec on Jan 16, 2008 11:50 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Smith on Lewis
by NY Chicago Fan on Jan 16, 2008 10:20 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Can I get a box out?
Just body up a white shirt, any white shirt, but especially the Magic. Turkoglu and Lewis are 6'10". Between them and Howard, when they rebound well, they kill teams.
by NBA Observer on Jan 16, 2008 10:34 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Smith would be a better rebounder
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 16, 2008 10:53 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
more
Joe needs to box out just to put a body in front of the opponent. This is team rebounding.
Instead, he doesn't body up and is so close the basket it is difficult to get one hand on the ball.
We can rebound better as a team just by bodying up the opponent.
by NBA Observer on Jan 16, 2008 11:08 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Smith is a gift
by BarryLird on Jan 16, 2008 3:17 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, but a gift
Every minute of pt he soaks up has been squeezed from the young guys.
Joe Smith, as nice of a guy, and as model citizen or whatever of a guy he is, does not belong on this team. We got him to tip the balance that might get us over the top--which is his correct role...he just should be doing it for another team.
by alec on Jan 16, 2008 3:28 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
How did Thabo and Duhon...
by tyger1147 on Jan 16, 2008 9:29 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Thabo played well
by bullshooter on Jan 16, 2008 9:35 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
His four turnovers were a surprise
by NBA Observer on Jan 16, 2008 10:35 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Probably his turnovers stem from the fact
by alec on Jan 16, 2008 10:44 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
heh
by bullshooter on Jan 16, 2008 11:00 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Can I point out....
by tyger1147 on Jan 16, 2008 9:31 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
No, you may not.
by alec on Jan 16, 2008 9:33 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Can you remind us of what it was?
by bullshooter on Jan 16, 2008 9:36 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
What did I tell ya, Tyger?
by alec on Jan 16, 2008 9:38 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Wallace for Arenas and Songaila
by tyger1147 on Jan 16, 2008 10:14 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
they only do that if
by bullshooter on Jan 16, 2008 10:17 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
That's ignorant.
If $5-$6 million in cash, a possible draft pick and having Ben Wallace over Songaila/Blatche doesn't entice them, so what? I'm just saying it's not as crazy as everyone seemed to suggest. Especially since part of the criticism was saying the Bulls wouldn't get anything back, and now people are talking about buying out Wallace.
by tyger1147 on Jan 16, 2008 10:34 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
No, it is crazy
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 16, 2008 10:38 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Well, they'll have the cash...
by tyger1147 on Jan 16, 2008 10:45 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Ignorant was the wrong word.
by tyger1147 on Jan 16, 2008 10:42 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Does NOT convey
by tyger1147 on Jan 16, 2008 10:43 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree
by bullshooter on Jan 16, 2008 10:57 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Ignorant...yet jocular?
by alec on Jan 16, 2008 11:01 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
now you're being ignorant
by bullshooter on Jan 16, 2008 11:03 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Oh well.
by tyger1147 on Jan 16, 2008 10:35 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
That's because
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 16, 2008 10:39 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
And the team gets better how?
by tyger1147 on Jan 16, 2008 10:43 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
well that's the thing
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 16, 2008 10:45 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
What are you talking about?
by tyger1147 on Jan 16, 2008 10:47 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
::rolls eyes::
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 16, 2008 10:50 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
::huffs like a teenage girl::
For Washington, it could be a starting point. Maybe they ask for Gordon to be included. Before, you said it was a stupid plan for the Bulls. Now it's idiotic for the Wizards. It's rare a scenario comes up where someone is so out of touch that neither side benefits.
by tyger1147 on Jan 16, 2008 11:00 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Why make a trade just to make one...
by tyger1147 on Jan 16, 2008 10:48 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
If only it were so easy
by snley on Jan 16, 2008 12:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
...and learn to love it.
by alec on Jan 16, 2008 10:40 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
This is the
I was happy to see Thabo play last night. I would love to see Thabo and Kirk starting in the back court. Let's call the BG at point guard experience over. In fact if BG left with BW it wouldn't break my heart.
Very happy to see Noah come out and play like he did. Hope he gets the chance to play more every game.
by sue369 on Jan 16, 2008 9:45 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
only bright side
by NY Chicago Fan on Jan 16, 2008 10:23 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
What pissed me off most about the thing
by wjb1492 on Jan 16, 2008 11:12 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
very true
by tyrus4prez on Jan 16, 2008 11:15 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm home depressed, angry and the Corpse
by chgobr on Jan 16, 2008 12:22 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Seriously though
I haven't seen anyone else who cares about winning more.
He is the realest guy we got on our team.
Ban Wallace can suck it
by Option27 on Jan 16, 2008 10:21 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
(slight ?) change in subject
by alec on Jan 16, 2008 11:19 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Mayo?
by NY Chicago Fan on Jan 16, 2008 11:25 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Torn ACL
For the record, I would also take a ruptured Achilles or straight up broken leg.
by Jobu on Jan 16, 2008 11:23 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Blog A Bull
Feel free to talk about his mother all you want though...
by ScottieCartwright on Jan 16, 2008 11:27 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
don't do that either
by bullshooter on Jan 16, 2008 11:43 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Jobu like hats for bats
by NBA Observer on Jan 16, 2008 11:44 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
BaB DOES condone faking an injury
by RogersPark Kris on Jan 16, 2008 11:51 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You're a vet
by KT on Jan 16, 2008 12:31 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Hope no one posted this link
by piccolomair on Jan 16, 2008 12:39 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I've never forgiven Rick Morrissey
by alec on Jan 16, 2008 12:48 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Before Skip (take Diop over Curry) Bayless
by alec on Jan 16, 2008 1:04 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
That was enjoyable
by wjb1492 on Jan 16, 2008 12:57 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
That was entertaining.
by sue369 on Jan 16, 2008 1:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I wonder what skiles would think
by piccolomair on Jan 16, 2008 1:16 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Skiles would have laughed Ben
Skiles believes in discipline. You have to show up on time. You need to learn the plays. If you're struggling with the demands of the team you better talk to him about it. Let him help you.
It's the presumptions that drive Skiles crazy.
by NBA Observer on Jan 16, 2008 1:43 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Odd
by piccolomair on Jan 16, 2008 2:06 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
the Bulls have a malignant growth
do you think there is any possibility the suns, or any other team that needs d will take him off our hands?
by Conor on Jan 16, 2008 1:23 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Sam Smith's reader questions column
A reader asked Sam about a deal for Marion and Marcus Banks. The Bulls would send Wallace and change. Smith said the Suns wouldn't do it because in their system every player has to be able to score or else it weakens the entire system. Just one non-scoring factor and the opponents can run the other 4 guys in circles.
Wallace is a shot clock killer. He can't make layups. He insists on fading away on shots because he thinks it helps him make them. He can dunk with two hands, but his one handed attempts get tipped away a lot.
I think he can work in the Suns system, but it's really his defense that is necessary to slow the Western Conference playoff contenders with quality big men.
Wallace grabbing 3 boards in 22 minutes doesn't really help his trade value.
by NBA Observer on Jan 16, 2008 1:41 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
About suns not winning with Amare
by piccolomair on Jan 16, 2008 1:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
scoring not the problem
They're scary bad when Nash and Amare don't play. Utah was straight beating them down last week with Nash and Amare watching in street clothes. The Suns never had a chance in the game.
The whole concept of trading with the Suns is last gasp effort to get them over the top. The current roster can't do it. They would have to play flawless basketball and then pray for the opponent to find some bad luck trend.
by NBA Observer on Jan 16, 2008 2:56 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Wait was Amare out that game
by piccolomair on Jan 16, 2008 3:46 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You are correct!
Another Observer faux pas.
by marionette on Jan 16, 2008 9:03 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
wouldn't you rather see
thabo has shown a lot of improvement over the past couple games, he has great court vision, plays great d and rebounds with the best of them (guards, anyway). if thabo could learn to be a better ball handler, i think they could really have a star.
by Conor on Jan 16, 2008 3:58 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, Marion is good, but I've said it here before
Not even in a Superman comics' Bizarre-O world could Ben Wallace play for Mike D'Antoni's Phoenix Suns.
More discouraging than Thabo's shooting this year has been the bad passes. Still, he needs PT (obviously). I agree that he could be quite a player.
by marionette on Jan 16, 2008 9:21 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
PG situation
If the Noah/Wallace scuffle occurred I think it is great. Especially for Noah. What happened was embarassing to him. Maybe Noah sees a level of BS going on that others do not and this confrontation in my mind and for some reason (maybe i like that hes calling the team out for lack of effort after they were such drama queens)redeems Noah in light of the suspension and challenges the broken hierarchy which Wallace seems to be on top of... Can the players suspend other players for lack of effort? I think that would be ok
by Zac23 on Jan 16, 2008 2:12 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
eh
Also just for the sake of arguing, i believe its gordon who screwed with hinrichs development, i mean if not for gordon maybe hinrich would have become a far better scorer the way he was at kansas or in his sophmore year (just watch the youtube footage of the wizards series). But thats all for the sake of being a hinrich fan :)
by piccolomair on Jan 16, 2008 2:34 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Captain Kirk
I don't really see what Gordon could do that would make Kirk's shots not fall. With Hinrich's one year more than Gordon
by Zac23 on Jan 16, 2008 3:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Intresting
Aside from that let me explain why i believe gordon hindered kirk hinrich. Hinrich started off as this point guard, who could not only run the offense well, but when needed to could hit big shots, i mean his rookie year he took it right at Al Harington for an and 1 play. Against the Wizards and Miami (in 06) he averaged 20+ points for the playoffs. However as Ben gordon (along with deng) started to assert themselves more into the scoring roles, hinrich seemed to step away from it (also due to critics who said they would rather see him rack up double digit assists than double digit points).
Aside from that i often find ben gordon instead of catching one of hinrich's passes, decides to dribble a bit (even when open) and then make his own shot, i always considered a sabotoge of hinrichs assists. If gordon wasnt drafted, or wasnt an exciting shooter, i could see hinrich being more assertive on the scoring end. Yet due to Gordon's desire to be an all around scorer, hinrich has had to stick with running the offense.
I do agree that unlike most pg, hinrich is not a spectacular passer, or a quick athlete, but he has the ability to play smart, and thus has always(until this year) been considered a fundamentally sound player. basketball Skill wise i think the phrase of a second string shooting guard fits hinrich well, but if you take account his incredible intellegence and hustle, he becomes a very good pg who can shoot to boot.
Hinrichs defense is not over rated, its underrated. He is no bowen (bowen has some length and cheap moves that hinrich doesnt) but he like i said has smarts and a willingness that few players have ESPECIALLY on the defensive end. Overrated or Underrated, hinrich is a great defender, far better than gordon at least.
Both are great players of course, I do see why people like gordon, his instant offense, and coming off the bench hot. Ive liked hinrich mainly because his playing style fits a guy like me, no spectacular talent, but a mindsest and willingness that often gets people to compare him to the greats.
by piccolomair on Jan 16, 2008 4:52 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Kirk has only been
by sue369 on Jan 16, 2008 2:34 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
GORDON v. kirk
by Zac23 on Jan 16, 2008 3:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
And in my Dreams
In actuality though it would probably be an awesome game. The hell with the championship, id pay to just see those two play one on one at a serious level.
by piccolomair on Jan 16, 2008 4:27 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Which has nothing to do with what makes the
Kirk scored more in previous years when he took more shots (who'd have thought - shot attempts leads to scoring). With more weapons on offense (theoretically), he should be shooting less and distributing more. I have no problem with a PG that is the 3rd or 4th scoring option of the team.
And while everyone seems trapped in the November stats, Kirk's December and January shooting % and assist numbers have been at or above career levels.
by wjb1492 on Jan 16, 2008 4:51 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
20 and 10
by piccolomair on Jan 16, 2008 4:55 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
This should be a drinking game
by bullshooter on Jan 16, 2008 5:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
people got jokes huh
seems fitting too.
by Zac23 on Jan 16, 2008 9:11 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
ignore bullshooter
by ScottieCartwright on Jan 17, 2008 9:17 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I only clown
by bullshooter on Jan 17, 2008 9:27 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I leave that to you
by bullshooter on Jan 17, 2008 4:05 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
There is only one way out of the situation that
I hate to disillusion some of the enthusiastic, loyal fans here, but I don't think there is a single realistic trade that is going to magically remedy the Bulls' woes and transform them into title contenders this season. That transaction simply doesn't exist, regardless of how creative we all get with the ESPN trade machine. Any trades we could engage in now would likely be reactionary and desperate. A precipitate trade could doom the Bulls to several more years of futility.
In my opinion, the only reasonable course is to essentially sit Ben Wallace, Duhon, and Smith, while giving extensive minutes to Thabo, Tyrus, and Noah. Paxson should play the Youth alongside the Core in an effort to foster some chemistry between those two key groups. Only by fusing the Youth and the Core can the Bulls ever ascend to the elite echelon of the NBA. The young players will inevitably make mistakes and bad plays as part of their learning process, but hopefully, the team could develop some type of rapport by the end of the season and generate momentum (read hope) going into next year.
There is no simple solution, It's a long, arduous, laborious, risky path that may never come to fruition, but it is the only avenue to a potential championship. All other roads lead to extended mediocrity or a complete overhaul of the franchise. Ultimately, rebuilding may be necessary in any case, but Paxson should take steps to give the Core and the Youth a sustained opportunity to function together. Of course, all is lost if he doesn't have the cajones to sit the veterans.
by 1958ChiTown on Jan 16, 2008 2:34 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Ha! I love this . . .
Guess who tops it all?
Noah is killing all these guys.
If only he could get some fucking time
by Option27 on Jan 16, 2008 3:36 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

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