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Taking ownership, take two

Sam Smith first broke the story last night that there was an altercation between Noah and Wallace over the latter's attitude during yet another blowout loss on Tuesday. Mike McGraw of the Herald says it occurred during halftime.

In isolation, I don't have that big of a problem with guys not looking all sad-faced every time they lose. They're millionaires and were planning their  upcoming night in south beach.

But that just further shows how ludicrous it was to give these guys say in anything.

Meanwhile, as far as the game's concerned, I watched 2.5 quarters, but it's little surprise that a starting lineup of Duhon/Sefolosha/Deng/Smith/Wallace lacked scoring. Boylan says it lacked 'effort', naturally.Not that Wallace didn't lack effort individually. But it seems the solution is always to throw the same thing out there and hope for the best, instead of changing personnel. 

One other observation from last night was the Ben Gordon at point guard thing (Hinrich was out) was a sad watch, and Gordon/Deng/Noc/Noah/Wallace is 5 guys who can't really, how you say, dribble?

At least the behind-the-scenes stuff is getting interesting.

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Noah denied the confrontation
On the Score this morning.  McGraw came on, and didn't make that convincing of a case that it happened.

Ah well.

At least they're  providing us with some sort of entertainment.

by KT on Jan 16, 2008 9:02 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

KT, if I'm not mistaken,
you live in Madison, right?  How is it that someone living in the liberal epicenter of the universe continually breaks stories emanating from the lair of the arch villain of every open-minded sports-loving citizen on the prairie?

by alec on Jan 16, 2008 9:35 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

You can listen
from the Score's home page.

http://www.670thescore.com/

Win, just win.

by sue369 on Jan 16, 2008 9:49 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Chicago radio
comes through here load and clear - at least those lower on the dial.  I listen as I drive into work.

by KT on Jan 16, 2008 9:50 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

agreed on McGraw
it was bizarre how insecure he sounded when talking about his reporting. "well, that was the story passed around, I think it was a good source..."

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 16, 2008 9:55 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Joakim Noah on Mike North's show this morning
You can download the MP3 at this link.
http://www.670thescore.com/episode_download.php?contentType=36&contentId=1295483

Noah laughs off the last question; did Luol Deng separate you and Wallace in the locker room?

Listen for yourself.  Noah doesn't really deny that it happened.  Smith and McGraw both reported on the altercation.  John Jackson of the Sun-Times did not.

by NBA Observer on Jan 16, 2008 9:03 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

You're lying.
Twice now. 7:04/05.
Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Jan 16, 2008 9:23 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Noah
He DOES deny that it happened...he said several times that "there was no clash"

I don't believe him, but that's what he says

by ScottieCartwright on Jan 16, 2008 10:15 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

When does he say this?
The end of the interview goes like this.

"Reports say..<north reads quotes>

what? - Noah

<North commentary>

so didn't it happen? - North

laughing..No way..laughing - Noah"

That's it.  Where is the "there was no clash" quote?

by NBA Observer on Jan 16, 2008 10:30 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

He denies
it a couple of times. Go back and listen.
Win, just win.

by sue369 on Jan 16, 2008 10:40 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

he
says there was no clash right up front in the clip.

by leeac on Jan 16, 2008 6:31 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Dribbling
Agree that BenG is poorly suited to play PG due to his lack of dribbling.  Never seen a short guard have some much trouble getting around screens and double teams

Deng - also a poor dribbler in traffic, this holds him back as he is not able to attack basket as well off the dribble and create shots / space

I agree that Bulls shouldn't be crying on bench but I hope they at least hate to lose and are embarrassed by this mess.  They might not have talent to win East but they are obviously not playing up to potential despite the crazy lineups and messed up playing time.  It seems like they are about to implode and that the coaching change has not done enough to shake and wake up team.  Probably because same players are playing and "leading" the team.  Although I do like Thabo at least getting some burn, its shame that Bulls draft Thomas and then fail to figure out how to utlize and help him grow

by NY Chicago Fan on Jan 16, 2008 9:03 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

I hope the other local media outlets
pick up on this story.  There are still a few perception-challenged Noah bashers/Wallace apologists living in caves out there...one squawked his way onto our pages recently.  

I don't listen to radio during the day, but if the story does get talked about I'd appreciative it if someone could post a link to it or summarize it for the rest of us.

by alec on Jan 16, 2008 9:06 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

Thanks already.
I just saw the links.  

by alec on Jan 16, 2008 9:08 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Well, so much for trade value
Wallace is theCancer from here on out.  It seemed like he was playing a little better in the first half with a couple of dunks, but the 3rd quarter was awful and if he doesn't give a shit, then who needs him.  Hopefully, whatever he's been whispering in BG's ear can be addressed, too.
Nocioni-Khryapa in '08

by bullshooter on Jan 16, 2008 9:15 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

RE: Well, so much for trade value
I like Mariotti's new nickname for Wallace: Big Bum.
"You guys won today. You guys won yesterday, so that's two in a row. If you win again tomorrow, that's called a winning streak. IT HAS HAPPENED BEFORE."

by Jobu on Jan 16, 2008 9:36 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I agree
Wallace did have a pretty decent first half.

Forgot to add this to my 'key' observations, but the other obvious one was bad close-outs on 3 point shooters. Especially from the bigs, Smith had a hard time on Lewis, and Noah kept allowing Brian Cook to shoot.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 16, 2008 9:44 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

The closeout issue
you know what that says to me?  A lack of trust in your teammates to cover for you if your man pumpfakes and blows by you.
Nocioni-Khryapa in '08

by bullshooter on Jan 16, 2008 9:57 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

It says
to me that they were pinching down further
on Howard and Orlando found the open shooters.
Made 'em pay.

by Rusty LaRue on Jan 16, 2008 3:23 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

that too
but this isn't the only team to light it up from three against the bulls.
Nocioni-Khryapa in '08

by bullshooter on Jan 16, 2008 5:26 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

i really dont
mind Brian Cook shooting from a couple of feet behind the arc.  But, i guess he burned us on a couple of shots.  
I vote for Thomas to play, play more and play regularly.-Sam Smith

by tyrus4prez on Jan 16, 2008 10:03 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Cook has an outside shot.
In fact, that's about all he has.  Even though it's not great, it's been enogh to keep him in the league.

by alec on Jan 16, 2008 10:33 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

what I meant by that is
I can live with Brian Cook chucking from a foot or two behind the 3pt arc.  His 3pt% is not great and would rather see that than them pound it into Howard for a dunk or kickout.  It seemed like he had a case of the Nocioni's but he made them, and got hot
I vote for Thomas to play, play more and play regularly.-Sam Smith

by tyrus4prez on Jan 16, 2008 10:43 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I can't
Remember Brian Cook on the Lakers?  In LA, Cook couldn't even post up Hinrich or Duhon even though these were the players the Bulls were matching up with him.  They weren't switch defenders.  They were asked to guard Cook.  It worked.  Cook was paralyzed by it.

The scouting report on Cook is that he has no low post game.  Has poor footwork.  He's slow.  He rebounds at an average level.  But don't leave him from 15-19'.  This is the only area of the court he can excel.  He spreads the floor, pulls bigs out of the paint, and waits for a pass from either the PG off the perimeter screen or the kick out from the low post player.

This completely went over the heads of the Chicago coaching staff despite the fact that they've already seen Cook once this season.

by NBA Observer on Jan 16, 2008 11:05 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Plus, he did the same thing
for how many years at U of I?  But I guess only us fans would notice that.

by alec on Jan 16, 2008 11:08 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

How do we access ESPN material?
The Heat game is on ESPN tonight.  With the NBA's new all access material they will record huddles and the locker room.

Can we steal, er borrow, these recordings?  It would nice if someone leaked them to the press.

Are the coaches even using scouting reports anymore?

by NBA Observer on Jan 16, 2008 11:10 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

i heard
Larrivee mention a couple of times last night that Bulls assistant coach Wilhelm knows "all the plays of every team"...uhhh apparently he has some work to do.

Just like I said when Skiles was still the coach, the Bulls have the worst staff in the league at making in game changes/tweaks/adjustments...especially defensively.

They will get burned by the same play at least 4 times in a row before they even RECOGNIZE it, let alone try to make an adjustment and stop it.

Part of this falls on the staff but part falls on the players.  They know how teams play, they know certain opposing players' strengths and weaknesses, they know what sets other teams like to run...but we never see them adjust.

So to answer your question...NO, I don't think scouting reports are used anymore...at least not by the Bulls staff.

by ScottieCartwright on Jan 16, 2008 11:17 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

wow that's dumb
you're kidding right?  what do you think started the whole Noah thing in the first place.  Noah not paying attention in the pregame run through.  of course they use scouting reports.
Nocioni-Khryapa in '08

by bullshooter on Jan 16, 2008 11:25 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

i take it
that you've never heard of sarcasm before?  Very odd, especially since you're on this site every day...unfortunately

you're an idiot...go away

by ScottieCartwright on Jan 16, 2008 11:30 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

you say so many outlandish things
that you're going to have to give us a smiley face.
Nocioni-Khryapa in '08

by bullshooter on Jan 16, 2008 11:42 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

pot calling the kettle black
if I say "outlandish" things then whatever you say has to be insane, asinine, crazy, or whatever other adjective you want to use

I didn't feel a smiley was needed for that last sentence...i didn't think anyone was THAT slow to not see the sarcasm...sorry.

by ScottieCartwright on Jan 16, 2008 11:46 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Well call
me slow then because I didn't see the sarcasm either.
Win, just win.

by sue369 on Jan 16, 2008 11:50 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Boys, boys.
The girls are not impressed.  

Sorry, I'm used to chaperoning 6th grade parties.

by alec on Jan 16, 2008 11:50 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Smith on Lewis
Thats a sad matchup and no offense attended to Smith.  Joe Smith to me has played well and been all that we could have expected.  Its on the coaches to not put him in that type of matchup.  That type of crappy matchup is just one of the reasons not playing Thomas this year has hurt us.  Couldn't Thomas guard an athletic Lewis?

by NY Chicago Fan on Jan 16, 2008 10:20 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Can I get a box out?
Joe Smith should be able to box out Rashard Lewis.  This is one part of rebounding that has hurt Joe Smith throughout his career.

Just body up a white shirt, any white shirt, but especially the Magic.  Turkoglu and Lewis are 6'10".  Between them and Howard, when they rebound well, they kill teams.

by NBA Observer on Jan 16, 2008 10:34 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Smith would be a better rebounder
if he was a better rebounder. He pretty much is what he is by now.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 16, 2008 10:53 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

more
Boxing out one player gives your teammates a higher percentage of grabbing that board than the opponent.

Joe needs to box out just to put a body in front of the opponent.  This is team rebounding.

Instead, he doesn't body up and is so close the basket it is difficult to get one hand on the ball.

We can rebound better as a team just by bodying up the opponent.

by NBA Observer on Jan 16, 2008 11:08 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Smith is a gift
Everything that we get from Joe Smith is a treat. I'm slow to criticize him because he's been given a huge burden; one which he didn't sign on for.

by BarryLird on Jan 16, 2008 3:17 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Yes, but a gift
with strings attached.

Every minute of pt he soaks up has been squeezed from the young guys.

Joe Smith, as nice of a guy, and as model citizen or whatever of a guy he is, does not belong on this team.  We got him to tip the balance that might get us over the top--which is his correct role...he just should be doing it for another team.

by alec on Jan 16, 2008 3:28 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

How did Thabo and Duhon...
...both get 30 minutes and have such differing +/- numbers? Did Thabo actually play well?
Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Jan 16, 2008 9:29 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

Thabo played well
and hit some shots and played good defense.  Duhon actually had a decent first half.
Nocioni-Khryapa in '08

by bullshooter on Jan 16, 2008 9:35 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

His four turnovers were a surprise
I really don't remember them from the game, but that's probably because Ben Gordon's were a lot worse and more memorable.

by NBA Observer on Jan 16, 2008 10:35 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Probably his turnovers stem from the fact
that the bulls are used having their names called out, alerting them to a pass coming their way, while Thabo just passes the damn ball.

by alec on Jan 16, 2008 10:44 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

heh
zing, that was a good one.  You think they instituted that for Tyrus?
Nocioni-Khryapa in '08

by bullshooter on Jan 16, 2008 11:00 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Can I point out....
...that my trade proposal of two weeks ago was NOT a bad idea?
Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Jan 16, 2008 9:31 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

No, you may not.
It's illegal on this site.  I tried it once and was immediately and severely rebuked.

by alec on Jan 16, 2008 9:33 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Can you remind us of what it was?
if it was for Amare, it is still dumb.
Nocioni-Khryapa in '08

by bullshooter on Jan 16, 2008 9:36 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

What did I tell ya, Tyger?
You can't even hint at it.

by alec on Jan 16, 2008 9:38 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Wallace for Arenas and Songaila
Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Jan 16, 2008 10:14 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

they only do that if
Arenas actually has his leg amputated above the knee.
Nocioni-Khryapa in '08

by bullshooter on Jan 16, 2008 10:17 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

That's ignorant.
For starters, it immediately gets them about $3 million dollars. Unless Henry Abbot lied to me. Second, Gilbert isn't acting like he wants to stay. Third, I said (before) I'd consider draft picks and/or cash considerations. I'd think about offering close to a deal comparable to a sign-and-trade, since the Bulls would have the benefit of doing that at the end of the season.

If $5-$6 million in cash, a possible draft pick and having Ben Wallace over Songaila/Blatche doesn't entice them, so what? I'm just saying it's not as crazy as everyone seemed to suggest. Especially since part of the criticism was saying the Bulls wouldn't get anything back, and now people are talking about buying out Wallace.

Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Jan 16, 2008 10:34 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

No, it is crazy
Getting nothing for Gilbert is better than the privelage of paying Wallace 2 more seasons.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 16, 2008 10:38 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Well, they'll have the cash...
...to pay for some of it in the luxury tax savings of this year if you want to look at it. And Wallace will at least "play" this year. And then his contract only becomes more valuable starting a year from now.
Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Jan 16, 2008 10:45 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Ignorant was the wrong word.
I don't know what the right one is, but it does convey what I meant to say.
Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Jan 16, 2008 10:42 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Does NOT convey
Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Jan 16, 2008 10:43 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I agree
'flippant' or maybe 'jocular' might have been better choices.
Nocioni-Khryapa in '08

by bullshooter on Jan 16, 2008 10:57 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Ignorant...yet jocular?
Sorry, bullshooter, that's private property.  Keep off.

by alec on Jan 16, 2008 11:01 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

now you're being ignorant
and yet flippant at the same time.
Nocioni-Khryapa in '08

by bullshooter on Jan 16, 2008 11:03 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Oh well.
Only Pau Gasol trades work here. Only HSCS agrees with Matt 100% of the time, so the rest of  us have to take our occasional lumps.
Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Jan 16, 2008 10:35 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

That's because
Gasol trades don't include Wallace.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 16, 2008 10:39 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

And the team gets better how?
Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Jan 16, 2008 10:43 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

well that's the thing
a trade idea means there's at least TWO teams. So try and make them better as well. It may take away from fantasy scenarios though.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 16, 2008 10:45 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

What are you talking about?
Why do the Bulls make a trade that helps the Grizzlies but not the Bulls? How does that make sense?
Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Jan 16, 2008 10:47 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

::rolls eyes::
Um, getting Gasol helps because he's good? It's debateable, but a good trade idea should be. Your idea for Arenas is completely idiotic from Washington's perspective. That's just like my opinion, man.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 16, 2008 10:50 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

::huffs like a teenage girl::
Gasol is obviously good, but it looks like while Wallace is on this team, he'll be getting 30-35 mpg. And of course Joe Smith will still get 20-25 mpg. I don't see how this team gets more than a game or two better if that happens. At the same time they lose at least one piece of the future.

For Washington, it could be a starting point. Maybe they ask for Gordon to be included. Before, you said it was a stupid plan for the Bulls. Now it's idiotic for the Wizards. It's rare a scenario comes up where someone is so out of touch that neither side benefits.

Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Jan 16, 2008 11:00 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Go me!
Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Jan 16, 2008 11:01 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Why make a trade just to make one...
...if it's not getting rid of Wallace? What's the point?
Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Jan 16, 2008 10:48 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

If only it were so easy
The Bulls won't be getting rid of Wallace until next year unless they are taking back someone else's crappy contract.  NBA front offices are as well aware as we are that Wallace does not deserve the sizable chunk of salary cap space he takes up.  They won't take him thinking they are adding an asset.  They would take him only to swap bad contracts.  Wallace will not become a wanted commodity again until next year's trade deadline at the earliest.  As much as I would love to unload Wallace's contract, why the hell would the Wizards want that contract when they're going to be losing not just Arenas but likely Jamison as well after this season?  Your proposal is stupid because there's nothing going to the Wizards that would be a plus to them.

by snley on Jan 16, 2008 12:12 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

This is the
most disheartening place I've been in a long time (and I'm a Cubs fan). I really have to wonder how much the attitude, camaraderie, etc. would improve with Wallace not on the team? I can't even stand to look at him anymore.

I was happy to see Thabo play last night. I would love to see Thabo and Kirk starting in the back court. Let's call the BG at point guard experience over. In fact if BG left with BW it wouldn't break my heart.

Very happy to see Noah come out and play like he did. Hope he gets the chance to play more every game.

Win, just win.

by sue369 on Jan 16, 2008 9:45 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

only bright side
might be Thabo getting to play, way to early to make a call on him, but at least if he plays the Bulls can figure out if they have anything there or if they need to find another guard

by NY Chicago Fan on Jan 16, 2008 10:23 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Agreed.
Maybe now that he's playing better--whatever the reason--he'll get pt over Duhon when Kirk comes back.  But he's got to continue to show he's taken a step up.  And I'm with you; I hope he does.

by alec on Jan 16, 2008 10:30 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

What pissed me off most about the thing
with Wallace laughing on the bench is the fact that we so rarely see him look happy about anything.  So the one time he looks like he's having a good time is while the team is getting blown out, on a night he was a -28 with 4 points and 3 rebounds?
"I believe. I believe. It's silly, but I believe." (Miracle on 34th Street)

by wjb1492 on Jan 16, 2008 11:12 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

very true
he should go and give his patented "arm wrap" thingy he does with all his former Piston teammates.  He's that kid that hasn't been able to forget his first love even though he ended it.  What a joke!!  Rip, Sheed, Chauncey could care less about him.  
I vote for Thomas to play, play more and play regularly.-Sam Smith

by tyrus4prez on Jan 16, 2008 11:15 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm home depressed, angry and the Corpse
is having a big laugh on the bench.  Is there a problem here?  Bury the Corpse!  

by chgobr on Jan 16, 2008 12:22 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Seriously though
Joakim Noah is my favorite player in the NBA now.

I haven't seen anyone else who cares about winning more.

He is the realest guy we got on our team.

Ban Wallace can suck it

by Option27 on Jan 16, 2008 10:21 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

(slight ?) change in subject
Can you belive OJ is still taking up a whole morning of live TV time on MSNBC?

by alec on Jan 16, 2008 11:19 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

Mayo?
I really haven't seen to much on him now that NCAA season has started, although I heard he has been fairly good for a freshman

by NY Chicago Fan on Jan 16, 2008 11:25 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Torn ACL
That's the best thing that can happen to Big Bum right now.  It appears that only a debilitating injury will allow TT/Noah to see daylight and get him away from this team.  That's what in took in LA (Kwame) for Bynum to see some burn.  That kinda worked out (until the other day).

For the record, I would also take a ruptured Achilles or straight up broken leg.    

"You guys won today. You guys won yesterday, so that's two in a row. If you win again tomorrow, that's called a winning streak. IT HAS HAPPENED BEFORE."

by Jobu on Jan 16, 2008 11:23 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

Blog A Bull
does not condone wishing injury on any player...even one as less effective and as worthless Big Bum.

Feel free to talk about his mother all you want though...

by ScottieCartwright on Jan 16, 2008 11:27 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

don't do that either
it cost us the Knicks game.  (Bad Karma.)
Nocioni-Khryapa in '08

by bullshooter on Jan 16, 2008 11:43 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Jobu like hats for bats
I think the voodoo exemption applies.

by NBA Observer on Jan 16, 2008 11:44 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Hope no one posted this link
This has got to be my favoirte sports article EVER. Im a fan of fiction reading coupled with symbolism, and i hear the godfather is the best movie ever made (although i have yet to watch it, call me Peter) well good read and very laughable. Me likes, hope you guys do too...

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/columnists/cs-080115rickmorrisseychicagobulls,1,30622 32.column?coll=cs-bulls-headlines

im trying hard to become the next kirk hinrich, therefore im doing nothing more than being the next chris duhon.

by piccolomair on Jan 16, 2008 12:39 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

I've never forgiven Rick Morrissey
for his usurpation of the most hallowed space in Chicago sports journalism...but I have to hand it to him on this one.

by alec on Jan 16, 2008 12:48 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Before Skip (take Diop over Curry) Bayless
it was owned by Bernie Lincicome, my all-time favorite sports columnist.  It goes back before Bernie to some of Chicago's most celebrated sports journalists.

by alec on Jan 16, 2008 1:04 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

That was enjoyable
"I believe. I believe. It's silly, but I believe." (Miracle on 34th Street)

by wjb1492 on Jan 16, 2008 12:57 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

That was entertaining.
Rick should be on CTL this week so it will be fun to hear what the others have to say about this article.
Win, just win.

by sue369 on Jan 16, 2008 1:49 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I wonder what skiles would think
about the rookies comments. I mean skiles is the guy who would stand up to shaq in practice. Skiles is the guy who always saw the wrong with winning a game by a point or two. I think skiles would have stood up for Noah.
im trying hard to become the next kirk hinrich, therefore im doing nothing more than being the next chris duhon.

by piccolomair on Jan 16, 2008 1:16 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Skiles would have laughed Ben
Wallace out of the room on a players vote to suspend Noah another game.

Skiles believes in discipline.  You have to show up on time.  You need to learn the plays.  If you're struggling with the demands of the team you better talk to him about it.  Let him help you.

It's the presumptions that drive Skiles crazy.

by NBA Observer on Jan 16, 2008 1:43 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

link isn't
working
Win, just win.

by sue369 on Jan 16, 2008 1:52 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Odd
It works for me...
im trying hard to become the next kirk hinrich, therefore im doing nothing more than being the next chris duhon.

by piccolomair on Jan 16, 2008 2:06 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

the Bulls have a malignant growth
and its name is ben wallace.  what a disaster this has turned out to be.  i hope paxson has learned his lesson, because not only is wallace ineffective when he is out there, but now he is bringing the whole team down with him.  i mean, talk about the world's biggest hypocrite.  he quits on skiles, looks like he could care less when he is on the floor, and then he has the balls to ask for the extra one game suspension of noah for getting into a heated argument with an assistant coach whom noah is close with.  that was obviously a power trip gone bad.   i am still pissed about skiles getting canned, and now i am furious about it because it sounds like wallace was the ring leader on the "skiles must go" campaign.  
do you think there is any possibility the suns, or any other team that needs d will take him off our hands?

by Conor on Jan 16, 2008 1:23 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Sam Smith's reader questions column
Addressed the Suns.  I've been saying get Amare.  That's really not going to happen, but I float it because the Suns aren't winning anything with Amare as their center.

A reader asked Sam about a deal for Marion and Marcus Banks.  The Bulls would send Wallace and change.  Smith said the Suns wouldn't do it because in their system every player has to be able to score or else it weakens the entire system.  Just one non-scoring factor and the opponents can run the other 4 guys in circles.

Wallace is a shot clock killer.  He can't make layups.  He insists on fading away on shots because he thinks it helps him make them.  He can dunk with two hands, but his one handed attempts get tipped away a lot.

I think he can work in the Suns system, but it's really his defense that is necessary to slow the Western Conference playoff contenders with quality big men.

Wallace grabbing 3 boards in 22 minutes doesn't really help his trade value.

by NBA Observer on Jan 16, 2008 1:41 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

About suns not winning with Amare
I think nash and stoudemire are THE two guys on that team. The pick and roll they run, with thier inside outside game. Without Amare, they lose.
im trying hard to become the next kirk hinrich, therefore im doing nothing more than being the next chris duhon.

by piccolomair on Jan 16, 2008 1:47 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

scoring not the problem
Amare can put up 40, Nash get his 15 assists, and the Suns still lose because they cannot stop low post quality bigs with passing skills.

They're scary bad when Nash and Amare don't play.  Utah was straight beating them down last week with Nash and Amare watching in street clothes.  The Suns never had a chance in the game.

The whole concept of trading with the Suns is last gasp effort to get them over the top.  The current roster can't do it.  They would have to play flawless basketball and then pray for the opponent to find some bad luck trend.

by NBA Observer on Jan 16, 2008 2:56 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Wait was Amare out that game
I thought Amare was in, Nash, Hill and Marion were out. Or so i thought. didnt watch the game for too long (sun games are boring without nash running the offense). I rememeber someone saying something about the suns fans wondering who is more valuable, Amare or Nash. So i assumed Amare was in teh game, while nash was not and this sort of showed how without nash the suns are nothing.
im trying hard to become the next kirk hinrich, therefore im doing nothing more than being the next chris duhon.

by piccolomair on Jan 16, 2008 3:46 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

You are correct!
Shawn, Steve and Grant were DNP, Amare played.

Another Observer faux pas.

by marionette on Jan 16, 2008 9:03 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

wouldn't you rather see
marion on the bulls?  trade wallace and bg to the suns for marion and some scrub (i think the money is about equal).  and then the bulls could throw a line up of kirk, deng, marion, joe smith, and gray.  have thabo, noc, tyrus and noah come off the bench. but my dream really would be if thabo could learn to run the point (pippen coming in as an assistant would help thabo and deng immensely)  move deng to the 2, marion stays at the three, and whatever rotation of noah, tyrus, gray and smith.  i know there is about zero chance of this happening, but i like dreaming about it.
thabo has shown a lot of improvement over the past couple games, he has great court vision, plays great d and rebounds with the best of them (guards, anyway).  if thabo could learn to be a better ball handler, i think they could really have a star.

by Conor on Jan 16, 2008 3:58 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Yes, Marion is good, but I've said it here before
so I'll say it again another way:

Not even in a Superman comics' Bizarre-O world could Ben Wallace play for Mike D'Antoni's Phoenix Suns.

More discouraging than Thabo's shooting this year has been the bad passes. Still, he needs PT (obviously). I agree that he could be quite a player.

by marionette on Jan 16, 2008 9:21 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

PG situation
Ok so BG wasn't too good at the 1 spot where I have been saying he should be starting over Hinrich or Duhon.  I still think that if given more time at the 1 BG's handling will improve.  What irks me being a retrospective fan and all is that had Ben been starting there since his rookie year those handling skills would be developed by now...and I think Pax's biggest mistake is/was allowing Kirk to hinder Ben's development in that particular manner (I also blame Jay Williams)  BG is the only true scorer on the Bulls and the more he has the ball in his hands the better the team's chances are.  He's one of few Bulls players that impress me. those are: BG, Deng (even tho he is from Duke), Thomas, and Noah... Wallace too, but barely and rarely.  Keep the dream alive... BG at point 4 L

If the Noah/Wallace scuffle occurred I think it is great.  Especially for Noah.  What happened was embarassing to him. Maybe Noah sees a level of BS going on that others do not and this confrontation in my mind and for some reason (maybe i like that hes calling the team out for lack of effort after they were such drama queens)redeems Noah in light of the suspension and challenges the broken hierarchy which Wallace seems to be on top of... Can the players suspend other players for lack of effort?  I think that would be ok

by Zac23 on Jan 16, 2008 2:12 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

eh
Kirk was there before BG, playing the point so how are u blaming kirk (or jay williams for that matter) for screwing up BGs development? Also agreed ben gordon is the best option (for now) for scoring, yet that only pushes how he should be playing shooting guard. Point Guards pass, shooting guards score.

Also just for the sake of arguing, i believe its gordon who screwed with hinrichs development, i mean if not for gordon maybe hinrich would have become a far better scorer the way he was at kansas or in his sophmore year (just watch the youtube footage of the wizards series). But thats all for the sake of being a hinrich fan :)

im trying hard to become the next kirk hinrich, therefore im doing nothing more than being the next chris duhon.

by piccolomair on Jan 16, 2008 2:34 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Captain Kirk
Look at Kirk individual and not in comparison with Kirk.  Kirk does nothing well and is small and slow.  His passing ability is average he seems to be able to dribble down low but usually for nothing.  His d is not great, just good for the Bulls.  HE IS THE CAPTAIN OF THIS TEAM... That does not sit right to me it is sad.  as is the possibility that Kirk and Deng might have brought Garnett or Kobe to Chicago but Captain Kirk was untradeable.  The Bulls love fest for Kirk seems to be a dream of Pax2.0.    Maybe Ben Gordon at the point is not going to win a championship, but i think it is a better team than with Hinrich at the point.  I suppose the heart of this issue is that the guards are terrible... Hinrich was the first there. everybody else was taken with Hinrich starting in the backcourt as a conclusion.  Gordon was still the right pick, I remember when he was drafted that the Bulls saw his jump shot and had to take him.  That jump shot for 35 minutes a night is worth the pick.  It was Gordons scoring that led to Bulls being labeled a solid perimeter team in need of help down low.  This covered Hinrichs true status as the weakest link, while inflating his stats.  enter ben wallace.  But he can't score and well neither can Kirk and teams have caught on that they only need to guard Gordon.  This has made the bulls guards even worse than the big men.  They thought Hinrich had the backcourt situation held down, so they drafted young guys that I think will be good in the near future... but as long as Captain Kirk as the heart of this bulls animal they will be running in slow motion  

I don't really see what Gordon could do that would make Kirk's shots not fall.  With Hinrich's one year more than Gordon

by Zac23 on Jan 16, 2008 3:47 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Intresting
I suppose this is one of those "well my guy is better cuz i think he is" arguments (on both ends) so it wont go anywhere since there is no fact or stats. I will point out your first sentence confuses me, "Look at Kirk individual and not in comparison with Kirk."

Aside from that let me explain why i believe gordon hindered kirk hinrich. Hinrich started off as this point guard, who could not only run the offense well, but when needed to could hit big shots, i mean his rookie year he took it right at Al Harington for an and 1 play. Against the Wizards and Miami (in 06) he averaged 20+ points for the playoffs. However as Ben gordon (along with deng) started to assert themselves more into  the scoring roles, hinrich seemed to step away from it (also due to critics who said they would rather see him rack up double digit assists than double digit points).

Aside from that i often find ben gordon instead of catching one of hinrich's passes, decides to dribble a bit (even when open) and then make his own shot, i always considered a sabotoge of hinrichs assists. If gordon  wasnt drafted, or wasnt an exciting shooter, i could see hinrich being more assertive on the scoring end. Yet due to Gordon's desire to be an all around scorer, hinrich has had to stick with running the offense.

I do agree that unlike most pg, hinrich is not a spectacular passer, or a quick athlete, but he has the ability to play smart, and thus has always(until this year) been considered a fundamentally sound player. basketball Skill wise i think the phrase of a second string shooting guard fits hinrich well, but if you take account his incredible intellegence and hustle, he becomes a very good pg who can shoot to boot.

Hinrichs defense is not over rated, its underrated. He is no bowen (bowen has some length and cheap moves that hinrich doesnt) but he like i said has smarts and a willingness that few players have ESPECIALLY on the defensive end. Overrated or Underrated, hinrich is a great defender, far better than gordon at least.

Both are great players of course, I do see why people like gordon, his instant offense, and coming off the bench hot. Ive liked hinrich mainly because his playing style fits a guy like me, no spectacular talent, but a mindsest and willingness that often gets people to compare him to the greats.

im trying hard to become the next kirk hinrich, therefore im doing nothing more than being the next chris duhon.

by piccolomair on Jan 16, 2008 4:52 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Kirk has only been
on the team one year more than BG. If the Pax had seen that BG had any ball handling skills he would have tried him at the point. He didn't and still doesn't and probably never will. He thinks he's a point guard but his skills say otherwise.
Win, just win.

by sue369 on Jan 16, 2008 2:34 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

GORDON v. kirk
Gordon schools Hinrich if they play each other.

by Zac23 on Jan 16, 2008 3:49 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Only in
your dreams.
Win, just win.

by sue369 on Jan 16, 2008 4:22 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

And in my Dreams
Gordon cant get a shot off, hell he cant hold the ball for more then a dribble against hinrich.

In actuality though it would probably be an awesome game. The hell with the championship, id pay to just see those two play one on one at a serious level.

im trying hard to become the next kirk hinrich, therefore im doing nothing more than being the next chris duhon.

by piccolomair on Jan 16, 2008 4:27 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Since BG
can't play defense or dribble it wouldn't be much of a contest.
Win, just win.

by sue369 on Jan 16, 2008 4:30 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Which has nothing to do with what makes the
Bulls a better team.

Kirk scored more in previous years when he took more shots (who'd have thought - shot attempts leads to scoring).  With more weapons on offense (theoretically), he should be shooting less and distributing more.  I have no problem with a PG that is the 3rd or 4th scoring option of the team.

And while everyone seems trapped in the November stats, Kirk's December and January shooting % and assist numbers have been at or above career levels.

"I believe. I believe. It's silly, but I believe." (Miracle on 34th Street)

by wjb1492 on Jan 16, 2008 4:51 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

20 and 10
I still dont believe 20pts and 10 assists per game is out of hinrichs ability. i wont be satisfied with his playing until he reaches that goal. I hope he gets it now that hes entered his prime...(what is the cut off for most pg primes? i hear the age is between 27-32. Anyone know anything?)
im trying hard to become the next kirk hinrich, therefore im doing nothing more than being the next chris duhon.

by piccolomair on Jan 16, 2008 4:55 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

aww...
Zac23 and BG7...2gether, 4ever.

by Lt.Dan on Jan 16, 2008 2:25 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

This should be a drinking game
how many comments until zac comes in and says BG should be the PG and that Hinrich isn't good, ...  Anybody remember the crank yankers skit where the guy called up and repeatedly said, "I wanna go to Hawaii, Yay!"
Nocioni-Khryapa in '08

by bullshooter on Jan 16, 2008 5:38 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

people got jokes huh
truth hurts huh.  pretty good clip bullshooter. this is my personal favorite   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EKqDUSi7sFs

seems fitting too.  

by Zac23 on Jan 16, 2008 9:11 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

ignore bullshooter
he tries to clown anyone who sticks up for Gordon...

by ScottieCartwright on Jan 17, 2008 9:17 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I only clown
the people who lack a certain grasp of reality.
Nocioni-Khryapa in '08

by bullshooter on Jan 17, 2008 9:27 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

There is only one way out of the situation that
the team finds itself in.

I hate to disillusion some of the enthusiastic, loyal fans here, but I don't think there is a single realistic trade that is going to magically remedy the Bulls' woes and transform them into title contenders this season. That transaction simply doesn't exist, regardless of how creative we all get with the ESPN trade machine. Any trades we could engage in now would likely be reactionary and desperate. A precipitate trade could doom the Bulls to several more years of futility.

In my opinion, the only reasonable course is to essentially sit Ben Wallace, Duhon, and Smith, while giving extensive minutes to Thabo, Tyrus, and Noah. Paxson should play the Youth alongside the Core in an effort to foster some chemistry between those two key groups. Only by fusing the Youth and the Core can the Bulls ever ascend to the elite echelon of the NBA.  The young players will inevitably make mistakes and bad plays as part of their learning process, but hopefully, the team could develop some type of rapport by the end of the season and generate momentum (read hope) going into next year.  

There is no simple solution, It's a long, arduous, laborious, risky path that may never come to fruition, but it is the only avenue to a potential championship.  All other roads lead to extended mediocrity or a complete overhaul of the franchise. Ultimately, rebuilding may be necessary in any case, but Paxson should take steps to give the Core and the Youth a sustained opportunity to function together. Of course, all is lost if he doesn't have the cajones to sit the veterans.  

LSU 38 OHIO STATE 24 - LSU IS THE NATIONAL CHAMPION AND I AM THE KING OF BOURBON STREET!!

by 1958ChiTown on Jan 16, 2008 2:34 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Ha! I love this . . .
Hollinger's rookie PER leaders

Guess who tops it all?

Noah is killing all these guys.

If only he could get some fucking time

by Option27 on Jan 16, 2008 3:36 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

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