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(UPDATE) Paxson speaks on crap situation he's created

Blogabull_s_tiny by your friendly BullsBlogger on in News

UPDATE: Paxson was interviewed by Mike North (for some reason North gets these assignments) and it's up at WSCR's website.

Not the greatest listen, but some information did come out: Regarding the Noah suspension, Pax made it seem like the 1st suspension was for the altercation with Adams, and the additional game from the players was for an accumulation of other things during the year. He was pretty vague on the details of the 'unanimous' vote, but North did get Pax to explicitly say that the rookies did not vote. Pax also said 'the veterans' made the decision. To me that leaves into question whether guys like Thomas or Sefolosha had a say either.

Regarding trade talks, Pax spent a lot of time whining about bad reporting, but did say that the McGrady reports were completely untrue.

******

Everything's A-Ok:

Bulls general manager John Paxson said today he had no problem with Bulls players voting to make Joakim Noah sit out an extra game as punishment for his run-in with assistant coach Ron Adams.

"Jim and I spoke [Friday] and the one game suspension was warranted," Paxson said. "The fact the players felt they needed to address it is, in my mind, a good thing. As Jim said, it's them taking ownership. I have no problem with that."

I think I would have a problem with this, if I knew what it meant. Wouldn't 'taking ownership' mean more than singling out a rookie who's already been punished? Perhaps not laying a big turd in the game that followed?

Or maybe Pax is hoping the players 'take ownership' so that he doesn't have to.

Paxson cited the fact that his team remains in the playoff race in the Eastern Conference as the reason that Boylan is sticking with a veteran rotation.

"We haven't lived up to any of the expectations we put on ourselves and that is extremely discouraging," Paxson said. "But today is not the day to determine that we just scrap it and do something totally different. Like I said before, there could come a point if things don't turn around and we don't believe we're contending for the playoffs, the experience for our younger players is going to be addressed. But we're not there yet."

Oh, what a pile of garbage.

Only the most dimwitted of fans care about making the playoffs just to make them. Even if the Bulls avoid a no-chance matchup against the Pistons or Celtics in the first round, the fact that this mad dash to the top-8 will be on the old backs of Wallace and Smith is hardly progress.

When Paxson fired Skiles, his subsequent media tour gave the impression that playing the youngsters was a goal. Now Pax is buying into this fallacy that playoffs and playing time for lottery picks is mutually exclusive.

So the only way we see a real change is if this sad bunch bottoms out of the playoff race? Way to make the fans root for losses.

And the final insult: "Paxson stuck to his policy of not answering any questions concerning trades."

Can't even feed the rumor mill because you're afraid it'll hurt your sensitive young team. What's supposed to keep this franchise interesting, watching the awful basketball?

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``Jim and I spoke [Friday] and the one game suspension was warranted,'' Paxson said. ``The fact the players felt they needed to address it is, in my mind, a good thing. As Jim said, it's them taking ownership. I have no problem with that."

That's not the worst part . . . .

As for the state of the struggling Bulls (14-21), Paxson cited the fact that his team remains in the playoff race in the Eastern Conference as the reason that Boylan is sticking with a veteran rotation.

And worse . . . .

``We haven't lived up to any of the expectations we put on ourselves and that is extremely discouraging,'' Paxson said. ``But today is not the day to determine that we just scrap it and do something totally different. Like I said before, there could come a point if things don't turn around and we don't believe we're contending for the playoffs, the experience for our younger players is going to be addressed. But we're not there yet.''

First off, Paxson's attempt to back the players up on this is just ridiculous. He knows he has the integrity of the team to protect but for the sake of God, this is a nation wide story for a reason.

There is no way he should endorse this act as if it's normal or a "good thing".

Second, just because the East is so poor and the Bulls are miraculously still in the playoff picture doesn't mean you should ride this miserable line up any further for the sake of saying, "At least we gave it our all"

This team has not gotten any better at all since Skiles left and if you ask me, they're even worse but that's for another argument.  

The Bulls are officially a disappointment. Even if they grab the 8th or 7th seed due in large part to the state of the Eastern Conference's lower tier, it's not something to hang your hat on.

My point being . . .

Pax, please just stop trying to say all the right things for the sake of the team. It's time you put your foot down on this mess you've created and take some responsibility.

by Option27 on Jan 14, 2008 8:59 PM CST   0 recs

So, should he just say all the wrong things?
I mean, I think what he said was about 98% Bulls**t, but I think his reacting any differently would be about as unprecedented as the vets getting a meeting together and hammering on Noah was.

by Sports2 on Jan 14, 2008 9:17 PM CST   0 recs

my reaction to his words about the benching
was more just confusion than anything. 'taking ownership'?

But beyond that, there's no reason for Paxson to perpetuate this crap about the Bulls vet-laden playoff surge.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 14, 2008 9:20 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

Okay.
Since you've got plenty of time to criticize Wallace, Griff, Boylan and now Pax  for this Noah thing maybe you'd like to share your
much better idea with us all.  

I mean it obviously isn't just an awful situation with no good options for anyone so tell us how it should've gone.

by Rusty LaRue on Jan 14, 2008 9:31 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

How it should have gone...
Wallace- should have held himself accountable before others.

Boylan- should have told Wallace & Griffin that management decides punishments, not the players.  The input of team leaders will be taken into consideration but suspensions cannot be enacted by the players.

Pax- should have told Boylan what Boylan should have told Wallace & Griffin.

by JeffD on Jan 14, 2008 9:45 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

So your better idea
would be for an interim coach that everyone knows isn't coming back to tell the team  that he's in charge.  Thats one helluva plan big fella.

by Rusty LaRue on Jan 14, 2008 10:06 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

Im
trying to get some of you guys to get beyond complaining and look at the issue for what it actually is instead of what you'd like it to be.  I've  been asking for a long time  and not a single  soul has seriously suggested a better option for Boylan or Pax.

by Rusty LaRue on Jan 14, 2008 10:23 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

I just did
I suggested the approach that any competently run organization would have taken.  

by JeffD on Jan 14, 2008 10:31 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

shoulda-been conversation
Griff-Wallace conclave: Coach, we've all taken a vote, and it's unanimous: we believe Joakhim should be suspended another game.

Boylan: huh?

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 14, 2008 10:16 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

No,
you've  got the better idea.  You know  how it should've gone so lets hear it.  Boylan's got to try and hold  this deal together and the team comes in with a unanimous request.   Lay it out.......

by Rusty LaRue on Jan 14, 2008 10:20 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

So
your idea of a plan is just to let the players decide everything since the coach is interim?  That too, is one helluva plan.  Letting the team decide whatever they want is better than having an authority figure?

by JeffD on Jan 14, 2008 10:29 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

I wasn't kidding there
Boylan should've laughed them out of the room.

As it stands now, by letting the team hand out suspensions, he's already lost authority anyway. And who gives a shit if you 'lose' Ben Wallace? Replace him with more effective players?

But say that isn't practical and Wallace is so stubborn that he'll further kill the team if his request isn't honored. At the very least, if Boylan reconsidered on the suspension and thought the team was on to something, handle it internally and then publicly say it was an organizational decision endorsed by himself and Paxson. Ya know, management.

Is that enough detail?

The complaining is valid: to get to this point in the first place is only possible after a series of failures up and down the organization. I'm not the one charged with figuring out a solution, and it's not needed to legitimize commentary. So take that shitty tone of yours out of here.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 14, 2008 10:37 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

Not to jump in the middle
but it seems like a good spot.  Matt et al., I think you guys are taking things out of order now.  All of the second suspension stuff happened after the Philly game, a game in which the bulls rallied from a 20 pt deficit.  So Boylan obviously had reason to believe this was coming from a cohesive team.  Now I know you want to pooh-pooh that win as insignificant, and it probably is based on the follow up egg the team laid, but that was after all the suspension stuff went down.  So I think it is a little unfair.

And another thing.  This is all about finger pointing and the only thing I hear you guys suggesting is more finger pointing.  Warranted or not, it certainly isn't the smart thing to do.  Wallace is already demonstrated that he is an emotional baby, why antagonize him, especially if there is any hope of moving him?  Pointing more fingers isn't the answer.

Nocioni-Khryapa in '08

by bullshooter on Jan 15, 2008 9:03 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

a rally against the sixers!
Well sure, if this team was any good then these shennanigans with Noah may have worked. But that's the point, this can only happen with a proven team that's any good. Nothing this season should have management giving them the benefit of the doubt.

A pile of dogshit is pretty cohesive too.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 15, 2008 9:19 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

What about the Atlanta club hop?
Wasn't Noah out clubbing in Atlanta on Saturday night?

Did the players make their decision on the day of the Atlanta game or prior to that?

by NBA Observer on Jan 15, 2008 1:06 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

my theory
is that Wallace bought shots, and Noah had enough to drink and refused it. Taken as an insult, Wallace said: "why you refusing my shot man? cause you want to play tomorrow morning? well guess what! team vote! you're not playing!" And then took both shots himself and high-fived whoever was closest.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 15, 2008 1:09 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

whomever was closest
Probably Al Horford or Joe Johnson.

by NBA Observer on Jan 15, 2008 1:50 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

The story of how Ben Wallace became
a good basketball player is always that he was driven by being disrespected.  So I say disrepect the hell out of him.  

by Scotter on Jan 15, 2008 3:00 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

Boylan was a lame duck coach
the  day he  took the job and everyone in the world but you I  guess already  knew that, players included, so the idea that this has somehow undermined what was already  non-existent authority is a fantasy.  He's got to concern himself with getting these guys to compete the next day, thats all.   And if letting the team police itself is part of that then Im all for it and you should be too.

The only argument that anybody could have with this is that it would've been better  if Boylan had the pulse of the team to begin with and made the suspension 2 games at the beginning.
Period, end of story.  So all you're left to bitch about  is style instead of substance.

I love the fact that you don't feel like you need to offer better alternatives to your constant knee-jerk bitching.  Let me guess,
you're a Cubs fan too.

The fact of the matter is that too many guys, including you,
are rooting for or against personalities moreso than you are the team as a whole.   So what happens is only marginally more important to you that whose involved and its been that way long before any of this Noah shit happened.

You couch almost everything in this comic book hero/villian
perspective and filter everything that happens through that prism.  If you want to see this team get better then you ought
to EMBRACE what happened with Noah and stop whining like
a girl because it wasn't perfect.  If  you want Noah to be able to contribute meaningfully anytime soon then you ought  to root
FOR him being brought in line and how it happens isn't of any
consequence.   NONE.    But  because  you guys don't like Wallace you're going to cry like its the worst thing that ever happened.   Its like you're watching a soap opera instead of a
sport.

And make no mistake, Im not defending Wallace over anyone.  
I don't care how things get accomplished I  just care that they DO get accomplished.  Imperfect or not.

And as far as my  "shitty tone".    If you don't like having people disagree with you or challenge you then maybe you should make that clear in the registration page.   I can see why you take up for Noah.

by Rusty LaRue on Jan 15, 2008 12:43 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

You know what...
don't be a smart ass.  If you wanna talk shit about my attitude then monitor your own as well.  If you've got something to
say about a post say it.  "huh?"  is girlie.

by Rusty LaRue on Jan 15, 2008 1:02 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

Then
don't whine about how people talk to you

by Rusty LaRue on Jan 15, 2008 1:09 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

no, that's the thing
I can do whatever I want. You're acting like a shithead so I'll tell you as much until I'm bored of it.

This blog is more your speed: http://sixtitles.blogspot.com/

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 15, 2008 1:12 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

This
is getting really eloquent isn't it???

Here's what your options are:

1.  You can kick me out for arguing my points

2.  You can get over it.

by Rusty LaRue on Jan 15, 2008 1:17 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

Or you realizing the difference
between the arguing and disagreement of points as opposed to saying: "here's what I think and if you think different that's only because you're an idiot" peppered in with subtle sarcasm like "well I guess you know everything"

So try that option first. Man-up!

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 15, 2008 1:24 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

And a sexist to boot.
A real loser this one is.
Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Jan 15, 2008 1:04 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

Hi LB26!
I'd know this guy anywhere on the internet!

by Sports2 on Jan 15, 2008 1:45 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

Who?
This is the only screenname I use anywhere.
Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Jan 15, 2008 1:53 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

Sorry tyger
I meant Rusty LaRue, who bears a striking resemblence to a poster who once went by LB26Matrix at RealGM and BBF.com

by Sports2 on Jan 15, 2008 3:15 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

No one who wants Noah & Thomas to play more
gives a crap about personalities.  All they want is for the Bulls to put the best players on the court.  The reason people don't like Wallace is that he sucks at basketball.

If anyone is focusing on personalities, it is you... Noah needs to be "brought in line."

And that is a ridiculous comment about authority.  Boylan may be a lame duck, but Pax isn't.  Discipline can still be handed out by management even with a lame duck coach.

And getting the players to compete every day?  Its not like Griffin plays or Wallace could try any less/suck any more.  

by JeffD on Jan 15, 2008 1:31 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

The vets just lost by 20 points to the Hawks
I'm pretty sure the young players can manage to do the same.  If they can't, then Paxson ought to be fired simply for blowing two straight lottery picks.

by Big D on Jan 14, 2008 9:21 PM CST   0 recs

So, what's a guy to do?
Do I buy every word out of the mouth of the players, coaches and GM's as gospel Truth as Sue is wont to do? Even if the statements seem contradictory as Matt pointed out...

Or do I buy the conspiracy theory that bullshooter wants you to believe that it's all about creating trade value to get rid of Wallace and/or Joe Smith? (This would explain why Pax agrees with the discipline-he can't say it was the wrong thing to do, implying Wallace is a cancer, and then think he's going to be able to trade him.)

Or do I buy another theory of BigD that everyone in the organization cowers to either Ben Wallace or Arm Tellem/Jerry Reinsdorf?

Since I've been saying it for at least a week, I'll go with bullshooter's trade idea. I would think he/she would be really pissed about this since the backup youngsters suck such terrible ass.

Why can't this team just start winning so we can quit trying to figure it all out? Ugh.

Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Jan 14, 2008 9:25 PM CST   0 recs

I'm willing to buy into that
no sense burying Wallace if the plan is to move him, although I'd assume NBA peeps know a lot more inside stuff about the Bulls anyway, and what Wallace is really like. But teams do like looking smart with reclamation projects, too.

Sad thing is, Wallace would look a lot more effective if he didn't play heavy minutes each game.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 14, 2008 10:18 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

Isn't it obvious that the
veteran rotation can't win a championship?

A rotation of Hinrich, Duhon, Gordon, Deng, Smith, Wallace, and Nocioni simply does not have enough talent to win the title. Compare that rotation to the rotations of the elite teams.

The only way that the Bulls have any chance of actually winning the championship is if the younger players develop. Period. End of story. If the younger players aren't developed, the Bulls can't win a title, regardless of whether or not they make the playoffs this season.

Since they can't win the championship, the only point of making the playoffs is (a) fiscal; and (b) reputational (i.e. you can claim that you maintained the momentum of the franchise or something of that nature). However, in order to reap that short-term reputational and fiscal benefit, the team has to sacrifice the long-term development of the youth, the very development that is the only viable path to an ultimate championship.  

The strategy is myopic and self-defeating.

LSU 38 OHIO STATE 24 - LSU IS THE NATIONAL CHAMPION AND I AM THE KING OF BOURBON STREET!!

by 1958ChiTown on Jan 14, 2008 9:38 PM CST   0 recs

Pretty much.
That's what I don't understand about the comments of bullshooter, rusty and others. They're making it a "who's better now" argument as if there's nothing else to consider.

First, there are many here who would disagree that Noah and Thomas aren't better than Wallace, Nocioni and Smith right now. (Did you know Joe Smith is currently having his most efficient season of his career? Who wants to bet me he keeps that up at 30 mpg?)

Second, the more time goes by, the more obvious it becomes that this veteran team sucks ass. Whilst discerning eyes could see the reality, an ignorant case could at least be made after the 'hot' start that this rotation sucked. How could the young kids, even if they are worse, be that much worse than average? What are they going to do, lose 3 more games and go 30-52 as opposed tot he 33-win pace they're currently on? I just don't see how a real argument can be made that playing Noah and Thomas significantly more minutes would be much worse than the team currently playing.

Third, even if playing the younger guys does make the team worse for this year, shouldn't they play more for the simple "chance" that they'll be better next year. There is no reasonable person that assumes Joe Smith and Ben Wallace will be as "good" next year as they are this year. The only way this team is better next year is if the younger guys who have a chance to get better do get better.

No, the only way people who think Thomas and Noah are getting the right amount of minutes are either a) very satisfied with being a mediocre team for the next few year or b) think that benching these guys will teach them valuable basketball skills that playing would not. I don't buy either one.

Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Jan 14, 2008 9:57 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

I will just add an irrational
argument to support you. Namely, when I see the young guys play, even if they make mistakes, I get a feeling of hope. Contrarily, when I watch the "Vets" hang in there with another team (which is about as well as they've done since we really haven't built many large leads), I get a sick feeling of dread waiting for the inevitable collapse.

by philosoball on Jan 14, 2008 10:06 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

hope is an illusion
TT, Noah, Gray, Thabo, none of these guys is the transcendent talent that the bulls need to get them over the top.  They are most likely just replacements for the guys who gutted out a second round appearance last year.  If any of those guys were that great, they'd already be logging heavy minutes, they wouldn't be hit and miss players like they've shown.  

That said, I'd rather they win on hustle than lose on apathy.  But the point of getting so many "assets" is to turn them into a truly transcendent player, like a Wade or a LBJ.  Gasol probably isn't that guy.  TMac definitely isn't.  You should be glad Paxson isn't flipping youngsters just to get one of those guys to sell tickets.

Nocioni-Khryapa in '08

by bullshooter on Jan 15, 2008 9:11 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

the point of getting good players
is to have a good team. Transcendence is an arbitrary distinction.

I don't see the argument in that they shouldn't try out better performers because they may be good but not that good.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 15, 2008 9:16 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

My point is that
they aren't any more consistent.  Sure TT can make some great plays, but he makes just as many if not more dumb plays.  That's fine if there is nothing else around or you're trying to develop the guy.  But if you are trying to make the playoffs, or feature the guys ahead of him to trade, then you don't have many minutes.  And Joe Smith has played beyond expectations, so why not ride him until he breaks down?  If nothing else he is a great example for how guys should bring it every night.
Nocioni-Khryapa in '08

by bullshooter on Jan 15, 2008 9:26 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

Because Joe Smith's
career year doesn't actually add up to that much.  All Joe Smith's prescence does is give coaches the "trust the veterans" excuse card.

by Scotter on Jan 15, 2008 3:04 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

For me, waiting to turn a bunch of
"good" players into a "transcendent" player is an illusion. There aren't that many McHale's in the league. And anyways, I don't really get excited about trades. I'd rather see what we can do with the players we already have. Maybe I'm way off here, but I see Noah as a damn good copy of Tyson with height and athleticism. His potential certainly seems great than Wallace's at this point, although Wallace can probably still give you a good 25 minutes/game. Tyrus is a bit harder to judge since I don't really feel sure about his potential yet. I do know that he is the only Bull who takes the ball to the rim consistently and he already seems to be a very good rebounder. Let Joe Smith play the first part of each half and maybe the end of the game if he is hot.
Well that's how I see it.

by philosoball on Jan 15, 2008 11:06 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

We need to stop grouping people together...
...like dissing all 'veterans'. I think Big Ben has been big, but I like what Joe Smith has done. Similarly on the youngsters, over the last few games Noah seems to have been more effective than T2, though I still like Tyrus.

by bullsfaninbigapple on Jan 15, 2008 8:16 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

I'll disagree with you...
... Thomas and Noah aren't really all that good. I don't think it's much of a stretch to say that either.

That said, I don't really want to argue the point with you considering you are a fair weather fan and I don't really care what you think about the Bulls.

(see yesterday's post for clarification)

by Khalid El-Amin on Jan 15, 2008 9:21 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

Haha
Turd this. If you don't care, don't respond. That said, my fandom still gives me better insight than whatever yours is.
Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Jan 15, 2008 9:27 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

Your fandom?
That's a joke right?

"I like the Bears, Bulls and Cubs, but all lose my interest when they're losing... If one of "my teams" is doing poorly, I'll find other teams or other players to root for."

Your words, not mine buddy.

Frankly I'm not sure why you are even here anymore. Go find a Spurs blog.

by Khalid El-Amin on Jan 15, 2008 9:40 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

Ouch.
Should I return my Bulls merchandise? Do I get kicked out of the club? Go play some pinochle.
Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Jan 15, 2008 9:44 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

heh, no kidding
I watched some Wiz-Celtics last night and it was far more enjoyable than recent Bulls games.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 15, 2008 9:46 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

No doubt....
It's enjoyable, which is why I have the NBA league pass, but when Tyger incessantly comments about the player rotation of a team he admittedly has zero allegiance to, well... It kind of negates the "fandom" card.

by Khalid El-Amin on Jan 15, 2008 9:54 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

Ugh.
I suppose this just makes it easier for you to argue your point, since it completely sucks anyway. If you can focus on one perceived fault of some person making the counter-argument (even if the argument is being made by a large number of others), then you don't have to address the argument itself. Because your points suck.

Get over it and get over whatever love you have for your face paint and #1 foam finger. I'm still a fan of this team, and they're still my favorite. And even if I wasn't, my point concerning rotation minutes is still correct.

I don't need to defend my fandom to you. I feel lame for even engaging in this, but I guess that was your point, wasn't it? Attack the arguer, not the argument.

Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Jan 15, 2008 10:05 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

yeah, well
you can't even spell El-Amin's name correctly, so nobody cares what you think makes a true fan either.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 15, 2008 10:28 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

Seriously?
I wasn't arguing what makes a true fan, but I can sure as hell spot an imposter.

Your blog is a self important joke.

by Khalid El-Amin on Jan 15, 2008 10:40 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

Hear! Hear!
LOL
"Duhon, don't make that garbage-time jumper... Save it for the next game!"

by bullhockey on Jan 15, 2008 12:27 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

You have think more
about immediate needs.  I don't think Pax is trying to make the playoffs.  He knows as well as you or I that  the 8th seed is doom.   He needs a new coach next year.  He can't bring Boylan back and expect to keep  his  job.  Pax  needs to be able to sell this gig to the Carlisles of the world and those guys aren't going to sign on to a team in complete disarray coming off a 24 win season.   However if they're looking at a team that held it together, made a run at the playoffs AND have a lottery pick then thats a different matter and the lottery pick  is huge because there damn sure isn't a championship in this roster on the  floor or on the bench.

by Rusty LaRue on Jan 14, 2008 10:11 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

First of all, I
would think that a roster full of developing young talent would be more attractive to prospective coaches than a roster full of stymied, bitter youngsters and aging veterans. Call me crazy.

Second of all, this statement is pure supposition: "there damn sure isn't a championship in this roster on the  floor or on the bench." You don't know that. You can't know that. If Tyrus and Noah fulfill their potential, the potential that made them top ten lottery picks, the potential that all of the teams in the NBA saw (it's not as if Tyrus and Noah were surprise top ten picks), the Bulls could be a title contender. But the only way we'll ever know if the two young players can fulfill their potential is if they are on the court, playing basketball. Right now, there is no way to tell whether or not Noah and Tyrus are capable of being great players. We only know that the staff has relegated them to a bench role because those damn whippersnappers are real rabblerousers.

This is source of my fundamental disagreement with you. You assume that the team isn't good enough to compete for a title. You've given up on Noah and Tyrus after half a season of inconsistent, fluctuating playing time. It's premature.

 

LSU 38 OHIO STATE 24 - LSU IS THE NATIONAL CHAMPION AND I AM THE KING OF BOURBON STREET!!

by 1958ChiTown on Jan 14, 2008 10:25 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

"Developing talent"...
is a synonym for losers.   I don't think Carlisle is more excited about teaching Thomas fundamentals ,or Noah plays,  as he is about winning.

As for the level of talent on this team......

Are you really saying that this team as constituted, even when its playing well, is in the same class as Boston or Detroit??   Where is this idea coming from??   The whole issue with this team for the last three years has been that they over-acheive and have to execute at a very high level simply to give themselves a chance to compete.  This idea that there is still some vast degree of unknown about this team is just fiction.  It completely disregards  everything about them.  Our  guards are undersized and slow, our best player is a jump shooting 3 who isn't fast enough to take people off the dribble and not strong enough to post up.    Smith is an undersized 4 even though he's been effective and Wallace isn't at his best without backside help.
Where is the championship there??

The issue is that even if Noah or the HSTT were to develop like some of you guys think, which is an enormous extrapolation,
it doesn't do anything to address the many  weaknesses this team already has and there is no way  in heaven or hell that either one of those guys  are ever going to be good enough to make that go away.

by Rusty LaRue on Jan 15, 2008 12:55 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

you should embrace their development
instead of whining about the lack of it. sheesh.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 15, 2008 12:57 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

forgot to add the 'coach ditka' comment too
for the 'loser' talk. But that's more HSCS's realm.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 15, 2008 12:58 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

I commented with a separated shoulder
and didn't complain. I wasn't making the money today's commenters do. This HSCS Mustard tastes great in HSCS Wine, and don't get me started about the velvet touch of HSCS Toilet Paper.
Fire Boylan!

by hscs on Jan 15, 2008 1:07 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

Not a single one of your arguments makes an
iota of sense. They are all based on the same inaccurate premise: namely, that Noah and Tyrus aren't good players.

You have somehow concluded that Noah and Tyrus or "busts" (or some equivalent term), but you have absolutely no evidence supporting that conclusion.

If Tyrus and Noah had both been given consistent, ample playing time for a number of seasons, had been tutored and nurtured by a supportive coaching staff, and had still failed to develop, then you could rationally call them failures. However, as it is, neither has been given consistent playing time, neither had had an opportunity to develop, and neither has been the beneficiary of a supportive, didactic coaching staff.  Instead, they have sat on the bench for the majority of their respective careers.  Hence, there is absolutely no way of knowing whether they have the talent to be bad, good, average, or great players at this juncture.

Let me remind you that, during the latter half of 2006-2007, when Tyrus did get consistent playing time, he fared well. Not surprisingly, when he was regularly permitted to be on the court for substantial stretches, he found a rhythm and began contributing.

So what is your evidence that Tyrus and Noah don't have talent? What is your evidence that they can't develop into stars?

LSU 38 OHIO STATE 24 - LSU IS THE NATIONAL CHAMPION AND I AM THE KING OF BOURBON STREET!!

by 1958ChiTown on Jan 15, 2008 1:41 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

Lets not carried away
I've not said that either the HSTT  or Noah are busts.  Its self evident that they aren't very good right now and the likelihood that there is going to be some sudden upswing in production isn't based in fact, its based on hope.  Lets look at both guys.

Noah.  Does not posses a shot at all.  He has no game with his back to the basket and I don't think he's likely to develop one because he doesn't have good footwork at all and he is an undersized post  player who cannot hold position against bigger and stronger 4/5's.  He is a clumsy limited offensive player who exacerbates that by not bothering to learn the plays.  You  can hope that he overcomes all that if you'd like but I  don't think its likely that he will.

That doesn't mean he is a bust.  It does mean though that we're
not talking about the next Tim Duncan or Dwight Howard or
even Chris Bosh.  Noah is a guy who if he finds himself in the right position may be able to contribute but he's not the kind of guy you  just throw  minutes at regardless because you're going to build your team around him.  

Thomas.  This guy is a hugely  gifted athlete that  doesn't understand how to play  basketball very well right now and his learning curve is desperately steep.   It is not true to say that when Thomas got more time last year he "played well".   At times he did and at times he played like shit which is directly related to the fact that he doesn't concentrate on