(UPDATE) Paxson speaks on crap situation he's created
UPDATE: Paxson was interviewed by Mike North (for some reason North gets these assignments) and it's up at WSCR's website.
Not the greatest listen, but some information did come out: Regarding the Noah suspension, Pax made it seem like the 1st suspension was for the altercation with Adams, and the additional game from the players was for an accumulation of other things during the year. He was pretty vague on the details of the 'unanimous' vote, but North did get Pax to explicitly say that the rookies did not vote. Pax also said 'the veterans' made the decision. To me that leaves into question whether guys like Thomas or Sefolosha had a say either.
Regarding trade talks, Pax spent a lot of time whining about bad reporting, but did say that the McGrady reports were completely untrue.
******
"Jim and I spoke [Friday] and the one game suspension was warranted," Paxson said. "The fact the players felt they needed to address it is, in my mind, a good thing. As Jim said, it's them taking ownership. I have no problem with that."
I think I would have a problem with this, if I knew what it meant. Wouldn't 'taking ownership' mean more than singling out a rookie who's already been punished? Perhaps not laying a big turd in the game that followed?
Or maybe Pax is hoping the players 'take ownership' so that he doesn't have to.
"We haven't lived up to any of the expectations we put on ourselves and that is extremely discouraging," Paxson said. "But today is not the day to determine that we just scrap it and do something totally different. Like I said before, there could come a point if things don't turn around and we don't believe we're contending for the playoffs, the experience for our younger players is going to be addressed. But we're not there yet."
Oh, what a pile of garbage.
Only the most dimwitted of fans care about making the playoffs just to make them. Even if the Bulls avoid a no-chance matchup against the Pistons or Celtics in the first round, the fact that this mad dash to the top-8 will be on the old backs of Wallace and Smith is hardly progress.
When Paxson fired Skiles, his subsequent media tour gave the impression that playing the youngsters was a goal. Now Pax is buying into this fallacy that playoffs and playing time for lottery picks is mutually exclusive.
So the only way we see a real change is if this sad bunch bottoms out of the playoff race? Way to make the fans root for losses.
And the final insult: "Paxson stuck to his policy of not answering any questions concerning trades."
Can't even feed the rumor mill because you're afraid it'll hurt your sensitive young team. What's supposed to keep this franchise interesting, watching the awful basketball?
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That's not the worst part . . . .
As for the state of the struggling Bulls (14-21), Paxson cited the fact that his team remains in the playoff race in the Eastern Conference as the reason that Boylan is sticking with a veteran rotation.
And worse . . . .
``We haven't lived up to any of the expectations we put on ourselves and that is extremely discouraging,'' Paxson said. ``But today is not the day to determine that we just scrap it and do something totally different. Like I said before, there could come a point if things don't turn around and we don't believe we're contending for the playoffs, the experience for our younger players is going to be addressed. But we're not there yet.''
First off, Paxson's attempt to back the players up on this is just ridiculous. He knows he has the integrity of the team to protect but for the sake of God, this is a nation wide story for a reason.
There is no way he should endorse this act as if it's normal or a "good thing".
Second, just because the East is so poor and the Bulls are miraculously still in the playoff picture doesn't mean you should ride this miserable line up any further for the sake of saying, "At least we gave it our all"
This team has not gotten any better at all since Skiles left and if you ask me, they're even worse but that's for another argument.
The Bulls are officially a disappointment. Even if they grab the 8th or 7th seed due in large part to the state of the Eastern Conference's lower tier, it's not something to hang your hat on.
My point being . . .
Pax, please just stop trying to say all the right things for the sake of the team. It's time you put your foot down on this mess you've created and take some responsibility.
by Option27 on Jan 14, 2008 8:59 PM CST 0 recs
So, should he just say all the wrong things?
by Sports2 on Jan 14, 2008 9:17 PM CST 0 recs
my reaction to his words about the benching
But beyond that, there's no reason for Paxson to perpetuate this crap about the Bulls vet-laden playoff surge.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
Jan 14, 2008 9:20 PM CST
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Okay.
much better idea with us all.
I mean it obviously isn't just an awful situation with no good options for anyone so tell us how it should've gone.
by Rusty LaRue on
Jan 14, 2008 9:31 PM CST
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How it should have gone...
Boylan- should have told Wallace & Griffin that management decides punishments, not the players. The input of team leaders will be taken into consideration but suspensions cannot be enacted by the players.
Pax- should have told Boylan what Boylan should have told Wallace & Griffin.
by JeffD on
Jan 14, 2008 9:45 PM CST
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So your better idea
by Rusty LaRue on
Jan 14, 2008 10:06 PM CST
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Im
by Rusty LaRue on
Jan 14, 2008 10:23 PM CST
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I just did
by JeffD on
Jan 14, 2008 10:31 PM CST
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shoulda-been conversation
Boylan: huh?
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
Jan 14, 2008 10:16 PM CST
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No,
by Rusty LaRue on
Jan 14, 2008 10:20 PM CST
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So
by JeffD on
Jan 14, 2008 10:29 PM CST
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I wasn't kidding there
As it stands now, by letting the team hand out suspensions, he's already lost authority anyway. And who gives a shit if you 'lose' Ben Wallace? Replace him with more effective players?
But say that isn't practical and Wallace is so stubborn that he'll further kill the team if his request isn't honored. At the very least, if Boylan reconsidered on the suspension and thought the team was on to something, handle it internally and then publicly say it was an organizational decision endorsed by himself and Paxson. Ya know, management.
Is that enough detail?
The complaining is valid: to get to this point in the first place is only possible after a series of failures up and down the organization. I'm not the one charged with figuring out a solution, and it's not needed to legitimize commentary. So take that shitty tone of yours out of here.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
Jan 14, 2008 10:37 PM CST
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Not to jump in the middle
And another thing. This is all about finger pointing and the only thing I hear you guys suggesting is more finger pointing. Warranted or not, it certainly isn't the smart thing to do. Wallace is already demonstrated that he is an emotional baby, why antagonize him, especially if there is any hope of moving him? Pointing more fingers isn't the answer.
by bullshooter on
Jan 15, 2008 9:03 AM CST
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a rally against the sixers!
A pile of dogshit is pretty cohesive too.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
Jan 15, 2008 9:19 AM CST
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What about the Atlanta club hop?
Did the players make their decision on the day of the Atlanta game or prior to that?
by NBA Observer on
Jan 15, 2008 1:06 PM CST
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my theory
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
Jan 15, 2008 1:09 PM CST
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whomever was closest
by NBA Observer on
Jan 15, 2008 1:50 PM CST
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The story of how Ben Wallace became
by Scotter on
Jan 15, 2008 3:00 PM CST
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Boylan was a lame duck coach
The only argument that anybody could have with this is that it would've been better if Boylan had the pulse of the team to begin with and made the suspension 2 games at the beginning.
Period, end of story. So all you're left to bitch about is style instead of substance.
I love the fact that you don't feel like you need to offer better alternatives to your constant knee-jerk bitching. Let me guess,
you're a Cubs fan too.
The fact of the matter is that too many guys, including you,
are rooting for or against personalities moreso than you are the team as a whole. So what happens is only marginally more important to you that whose involved and its been that way long before any of this Noah shit happened.
You couch almost everything in this comic book hero/villian
perspective and filter everything that happens through that prism. If you want to see this team get better then you ought
to EMBRACE what happened with Noah and stop whining like
a girl because it wasn't perfect. If you want Noah to be able to contribute meaningfully anytime soon then you ought to root
FOR him being brought in line and how it happens isn't of any
consequence. NONE. But because you guys don't like Wallace you're going to cry like its the worst thing that ever happened. Its like you're watching a soap opera instead of a
sport.
And make no mistake, Im not defending Wallace over anyone.
I don't care how things get accomplished I just care that they DO get accomplished. Imperfect or not.
And as far as my "shitty tone". If you don't like having people disagree with you or challenge you then maybe you should make that clear in the registration page. I can see why you take up for Noah.
by Rusty LaRue on
Jan 15, 2008 12:43 PM CST
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You know what...
say about a post say it. "huh?" is girlie.
by Rusty LaRue on
Jan 15, 2008 1:02 PM CST
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I don't have to follow the rules
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
Jan 15, 2008 1:06 PM CST
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no, that's the thing
This blog is more your speed: http://sixtitles.blogspot.com/
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
Jan 15, 2008 1:12 PM CST
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This
Here's what your options are:
1. You can kick me out for arguing my points
2. You can get over it.
by Rusty LaRue on
Jan 15, 2008 1:17 PM CST
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Or you realizing the difference
So try that option first. Man-up!
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
Jan 15, 2008 1:24 PM CST
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And a sexist to boot.
by tyger1147 on
Jan 15, 2008 1:04 PM CST
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Hi LB26!
by Sports2 on
Jan 15, 2008 1:45 PM CST
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Who?
by tyger1147 on
Jan 15, 2008 1:53 PM CST
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Sorry tyger
by Sports2 on
Jan 15, 2008 3:15 PM CST
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No one who wants Noah & Thomas to play more
If anyone is focusing on personalities, it is you... Noah needs to be "brought in line."
And that is a ridiculous comment about authority. Boylan may be a lame duck, but Pax isn't. Discipline can still be handed out by management even with a lame duck coach.
And getting the players to compete every day? Its not like Griffin plays or Wallace could try any less/suck any more.
by JeffD on
Jan 15, 2008 1:31 PM CST
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He should say what he feels for once
by Option27 on
Jan 14, 2008 9:24 PM CST
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The vets just lost by 20 points to the Hawks
by Big D on Jan 14, 2008 9:21 PM CST 0 recs
So, what's a guy to do?
Or do I buy the conspiracy theory that bullshooter wants you to believe that it's all about creating trade value to get rid of Wallace and/or Joe Smith? (This would explain why Pax agrees with the discipline-he can't say it was the wrong thing to do, implying Wallace is a cancer, and then think he's going to be able to trade him.)
Or do I buy another theory of BigD that everyone in the organization cowers to either Ben Wallace or Arm Tellem/Jerry Reinsdorf?
Since I've been saying it for at least a week, I'll go with bullshooter's trade idea. I would think he/she would be really pissed about this since the backup youngsters suck such terrible ass.
Why can't this team just start winning so we can quit trying to figure it all out? Ugh.
by tyger1147 on Jan 14, 2008 9:25 PM CST 0 recs
I'm willing to buy into that
Sad thing is, Wallace would look a lot more effective if he didn't play heavy minutes each game.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
Jan 14, 2008 10:18 PM CST
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Isn't it obvious that the
A rotation of Hinrich, Duhon, Gordon, Deng, Smith, Wallace, and Nocioni simply does not have enough talent to win the title. Compare that rotation to the rotations of the elite teams.
The only way that the Bulls have any chance of actually winning the championship is if the younger players develop. Period. End of story. If the younger players aren't developed, the Bulls can't win a title, regardless of whether or not they make the playoffs this season.
Since they can't win the championship, the only point of making the playoffs is (a) fiscal; and (b) reputational (i.e. you can claim that you maintained the momentum of the franchise or something of that nature). However, in order to reap that short-term reputational and fiscal benefit, the team has to sacrifice the long-term development of the youth, the very development that is the only viable path to an ultimate championship.
The strategy is myopic and self-defeating.
by 1958ChiTown on Jan 14, 2008 9:38 PM CST 0 recs
Pretty much.
First, there are many here who would disagree that Noah and Thomas aren't better than Wallace, Nocioni and Smith right now. (Did you know Joe Smith is currently having his most efficient season of his career? Who wants to bet me he keeps that up at 30 mpg?)
Second, the more time goes by, the more obvious it becomes that this veteran team sucks ass. Whilst discerning eyes could see the reality, an ignorant case could at least be made after the 'hot' start that this rotation sucked. How could the young kids, even if they are worse, be that much worse than average? What are they going to do, lose 3 more games and go 30-52 as opposed tot he 33-win pace they're currently on? I just don't see how a real argument can be made that playing Noah and Thomas significantly more minutes would be much worse than the team currently playing.
Third, even if playing the younger guys does make the team worse for this year, shouldn't they play more for the simple "chance" that they'll be better next year. There is no reasonable person that assumes Joe Smith and Ben Wallace will be as "good" next year as they are this year. The only way this team is better next year is if the younger guys who have a chance to get better do get better.
No, the only way people who think Thomas and Noah are getting the right amount of minutes are either a) very satisfied with being a mediocre team for the next few year or b) think that benching these guys will teach them valuable basketball skills that playing would not. I don't buy either one.
by tyger1147 on
Jan 14, 2008 9:57 PM CST
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I will just add an irrational
by philosoball on
Jan 14, 2008 10:06 PM CST
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hope is an illusion
That said, I'd rather they win on hustle than lose on apathy. But the point of getting so many "assets" is to turn them into a truly transcendent player, like a Wade or a LBJ. Gasol probably isn't that guy. TMac definitely isn't. You should be glad Paxson isn't flipping youngsters just to get one of those guys to sell tickets.
by bullshooter on
Jan 15, 2008 9:11 AM CST
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the point of getting good players
I don't see the argument in that they shouldn't try out better performers because they may be good but not that good.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
Jan 15, 2008 9:16 AM CST
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My point is that
by bullshooter on
Jan 15, 2008 9:26 AM CST
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Because Joe Smith's
by Scotter on
Jan 15, 2008 3:04 PM CST
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For me, waiting to turn a bunch of
Well that's how I see it.
by philosoball on
Jan 15, 2008 11:06 AM CST
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We need to stop grouping people together...
by bullsfaninbigapple on
Jan 15, 2008 8:16 AM CST
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I meant Big Ben has been...
by bullsfaninbigapple on
Jan 15, 2008 8:16 AM CST
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I'll disagree with you...
That said, I don't really want to argue the point with you considering you are a fair weather fan and I don't really care what you think about the Bulls.
(see yesterday's post for clarification)
by Khalid El-Amin on
Jan 15, 2008 9:21 AM CST
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Haha
by tyger1147 on
Jan 15, 2008 9:27 AM CST
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Your fandom?
"I like the Bears, Bulls and Cubs, but all lose my interest when they're losing... If one of "my teams" is doing poorly, I'll find other teams or other players to root for."
Your words, not mine buddy.
Frankly I'm not sure why you are even here anymore. Go find a Spurs blog.
by Khalid El-Amin on
Jan 15, 2008 9:40 AM CST
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Ouch.
by tyger1147 on
Jan 15, 2008 9:44 AM CST
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heh, no kidding
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
Jan 15, 2008 9:46 AM CST
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No doubt....
by Khalid El-Amin on
Jan 15, 2008 9:54 AM CST
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Ugh.
Get over it and get over whatever love you have for your face paint and #1 foam finger. I'm still a fan of this team, and they're still my favorite. And even if I wasn't, my point concerning rotation minutes is still correct.
I don't need to defend my fandom to you. I feel lame for even engaging in this, but I guess that was your point, wasn't it? Attack the arguer, not the argument.
by tyger1147 on
Jan 15, 2008 10:05 AM CST
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yeah, well
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
Jan 15, 2008 10:28 AM CST
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Seriously?
Your blog is a self important joke.
by Khalid El-Amin on
Jan 15, 2008 10:40 AM CST
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Hear! Hear!
by bullhockey on
Jan 15, 2008 12:27 PM CST
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You have think more
by Rusty LaRue on
Jan 14, 2008 10:11 PM CST
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First of all, I
Second of all, this statement is pure supposition: "there damn sure isn't a championship in this roster on the floor or on the bench." You don't know that. You can't know that. If Tyrus and Noah fulfill their potential, the potential that made them top ten lottery picks, the potential that all of the teams in the NBA saw (it's not as if Tyrus and Noah were surprise top ten picks), the Bulls could be a title contender. But the only way we'll ever know if the two young players can fulfill their potential is if they are on the court, playing basketball. Right now, there is no way to tell whether or not Noah and Tyrus are capable of being great players. We only know that the staff has relegated them to a bench role because those damn whippersnappers are real rabblerousers.
This is source of my fundamental disagreement with you. You assume that the team isn't good enough to compete for a title. You've given up on Noah and Tyrus after half a season of inconsistent, fluctuating playing time. It's premature.
by 1958ChiTown on
Jan 14, 2008 10:25 PM CST
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"Developing talent"...
As for the level of talent on this team......
Are you really saying that this team as constituted, even when its playing well, is in the same class as Boston or Detroit?? Where is this idea coming from?? The whole issue with this team for the last three years has been that they over-acheive and have to execute at a very high level simply to give themselves a chance to compete. This idea that there is still some vast degree of unknown about this team is just fiction. It completely disregards everything about them. Our guards are undersized and slow, our best player is a jump shooting 3 who isn't fast enough to take people off the dribble and not strong enough to post up. Smith is an undersized 4 even though he's been effective and Wallace isn't at his best without backside help.
Where is the championship there??
The issue is that even if Noah or the HSTT were to develop like some of you guys think, which is an enormous extrapolation,
it doesn't do anything to address the many weaknesses this team already has and there is no way in heaven or hell that either one of those guys are ever going to be good enough to make that go away.
by Rusty LaRue on
Jan 15, 2008 12:55 PM CST
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you should embrace their development
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
Jan 15, 2008 12:57 PM CST
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forgot to add the 'coach ditka' comment too
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
Jan 15, 2008 12:58 PM CST
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I commented with a separated shoulder
by hscs on
Jan 15, 2008 1:07 PM CST
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Not a single one of your arguments makes an
You have somehow concluded that Noah and Tyrus or "busts" (or some equivalent term), but you have absolutely no evidence supporting that conclusion.
If Tyrus and Noah had both been given consistent, ample playing time for a number of seasons, had been tutored and nurtured by a supportive coaching staff, and had still failed to develop, then you could rationally call them failures. However, as it is, neither has been given consistent playing time, neither had had an opportunity to develop, and neither has been the beneficiary of a supportive, didactic coaching staff. Instead, they have sat on the bench for the majority of their respective careers. Hence, there is absolutely no way of knowing whether they have the talent to be bad, good, average, or great players at this juncture.
Let me remind you that, during the latter half of 2006-2007, when Tyrus did get consistent playing time, he fared well. Not surprisingly, when he was regularly permitted to be on the court for substantial stretches, he found a rhythm and began contributing.
So what is your evidence that Tyrus and Noah don't have talent? What is your evidence that they can't develop into stars?
by 1958ChiTown on
Jan 15, 2008 1:41 PM CST
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Lets not carried away
Noah. Does not posses a shot at all. He has no game with his back to the basket and I don't think he's likely to develop one because he doesn't have good footwork at all and he is an undersized post player who cannot hold position against bigger and stronger 4/5's. He is a clumsy limited offensive player who exacerbates that by not bothering to learn the plays. You can hope that he overcomes all that if you'd like but I don't think its likely that he will.
That doesn't mean he is a bust. It does mean though that we're
not talking about the next Tim Duncan or Dwight Howard or
even Chris Bosh. Noah is a guy who if he finds himself in the right position may be able to contribute but he's not the kind of guy you just throw minutes at regardless because you're going to build your team around him.
Thomas. This guy is a hugely gifted athlete that doesn't understand how to play basketball very well right now and his learning curve is desperately steep. It is not true to say that when Thomas got more time last year he "played well". At times he did and at times he played like shit which is directly related to the fact that he doesn't concentrate on


