Blog a Bull: An SB Nation Community

Navigation: Jump to content areas:





This team is a mess

It was all scripted so well. The veterans band together and single out a young insubordinate for further punishment. Everybody on the same page, showing leadership, salvaging the season. Sit back and wait for glowing remarks on your behalf.

But see, if you're going to play this "galvanizing the team" game, it shouldn't be initiated by Griffin and Wallace: someone who doesn't play, and someone who can no longer play (and is known for clashing with coaches himself!). And then have it endorsed by a lame-duck coach.

Oh, and you can't then walk on the floor with this welling of team spirit...and then give up 38 in the first quarter. Lose to the Hawks by 21.

This kind of story can perhaps be told about a great team with a track record of success. But these players have done nothing to earn minutes or power, and not only have they gotten a coach fired but they're now handing out disciplinary measures.

What a joke.

0 recs | Comment 238 comments

Story-email Email | Print |

Comments

Display:

I owe Skiles an apology
I was as critical of his failure to play the young players as anyone, but at least he had the balls to limit Wallace's minutes.  From what we've seen from Boylan, that might have been the REAL reason Skiles was canned, not because of his unwillingness to play Thomas and Noah.  If the Bulls want to let a rapidly declining player like Ben Wallace practically run the organization, then they deserve to go into the toilet alongside Wallace's game.

by Big D on Jan 13, 2008 4:08 PM CST   0 recs

agreed
especially if Skiles' other real sin in Pax's eyes was not benching Ben Gordon.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 13, 2008 4:12 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

I can picture Skiles
sitting at home watching this mess and laughing hysterically that he no longer has to deal with it.  Regardless of how "happy" the team may be without him, he's certainly looking better and better the longer this season goes on.

I've never seriously wished an injury on any player, especially never one on my own team, and it makes me sad that Wallace is bringing me rapidly toward that point.

"I believe. I believe. It's silly, but I believe." (Miracle on 34th Street)

by wjb1492 on Jan 13, 2008 4:51 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

Have I heard this once before?Hmm...
''Obviously, losing to New York is something everybody has jumped on as kind of a barometer of our team,'' Boylan said after practice Thursday. ''So maybe getting away is a good thing for us at this time.
"YES,WE CAN!"-B.OBAMA.

by Azabullsfan on Jan 13, 2008 4:13 PM CST   0 recs

i find it hilarious that on this very page
a promo for that nationally televised bulls-heat slugfest wednesday night can be found.  come see a team apparently run by two pathetic veterans take on the worst team in the league!  the nba, where amazing happens.

by Mike C on Jan 13, 2008 4:14 PM CST   0 recs

What about Larry Brown?
Noah's extra game suspension is a symptom of lack of leadership.  What about having the coach talk to Noah and better understand what is going on with him than not have him play?  Noah seemed very contrite and further punishing him makes no sense - except the players feel there is no leadership.  

I do not like Larry Brown abandoning every team he has been with.  He did size up the Knicks in a month trying to make changes that Isiah now realizes but cannot make because they are his players.  He did pull Detroit together t win a championship and put Philly in the Finals.  What do you guys think?

by chgobr on Jan 13, 2008 4:21 PM CST   0 recs

Brown hates the youngins
This team would have to be drastically made over in his image and probably would not be better off for it in the long run.  What this team needs is a coach who will be willing to develop the likes of Noah and Thomas while pushing Hinrich, Gordon, and Deng to the next level.  Please, don't mention Rick Carlisle as another possibility.

by snley on Jan 13, 2008 4:29 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

I completely forgot there was a game today
Boy did I get lucky.  Taking a quick look at the box score, it's a good thing Thomas only got 10 min and Noah was benched by his teammates.  This game could have been much, much worse if you had a rookie and a second year guy out there.  I'm assuming that Noce got a number of minutes at the 4, which probably led to the large rebound disparity, but all that he contributes that doesn't show up in the boxscore probably kept this from being a blowout of the worst magnitude.  At least Griffin and Wallace are earning their salaries that they were both supposed to get for their "veteran presence."  I really hope that Paxson learns a lot about this team during the rest of the season.  Maybe he will finally grow a pair and make a trade.  Hopefully, his veteran leaders will be the first ones out the door.

by snley on Jan 13, 2008 4:26 PM CST   0 recs

right
we're still in a playoff push, so playing the better younger players will only symbolize giving up :)

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 13, 2008 4:30 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

Hysterical
Blowout of the worse magnitude...I'm waiting for the posts "correcting" you that it was a blowout.

As far as Wallace, I don't think I've ever done a bigger 180 in my entire sports fanatic life.  To think I was once happy with the signing.

"I believe. I believe. It's silly, but I believe." (Miracle on 34th Street)

by wjb1492 on Jan 13, 2008 4:43 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

Should we be talking about re-builing?
Ahhh yes the good old days... Kevin Garnett was in Minn and we were pegged to be Eastern Champs... Well those days have passed. Now were left with a doubt that we can make the playoffs. Whats going to make us better...? Re-signing Deng and Gordon to blown up contracts at seasons end? Will that really do it? No... Our core is garbage whether its our in-consistent play from everyone but Joe Smith. We have no star and that often means we have no killer instinct. We need to start over free up our salary cap space. Get some good draft picks and pull in a prime player. No combo-guards no 6 foot 3 shooting guards and please im begging no more 6-9 centers.
Fire Sale!! Please Pax!! I cant look at these people for 5-6 more years!! Start Over!!

by TRiCioNeRo on Jan 13, 2008 4:29 PM CST   0 recs

Fire sale would be too drastic
When you run a fire sale, it's usually b/c you don't expect the good players on your team to be around when the team is ready to be good again.  That, or you're an owner pissed off that the city/state your team plays in won't give you a billion dollars for a new stadium.  There are several quality pieces to build around that could make this team good again in a hurry.  Moves need to be made, but to scrap it all would be folly.

by snley on Jan 13, 2008 4:33 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

Plural?
Pieces? Right now what pices can we build around with our cap situation? Jerry wouldnt go over the cap in the 23 era. Remember the re-signing of Pippen? Deng is a piece but a 3rd option second at best. Be honest with yourself now, we did great in this draft Noah, Tyrus, and Gray will be good but still. One poss left who are we going to Gordon? Deng? Kirk? its all gonna fail we want a championship not a second round knock out every year if were lucky... Fire sale wasnt the right word youre right.

by TRiCioNeRo on Jan 13, 2008 7:32 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

You named pieces
Deng, Noah, Thomas, and as unpopular as this is, I stand by Hinrich.  Capt. Kirk does enough right to warrant keeping him.  While I don't think he'll ever win back to back MVP's, I think he still has a chance to continually improve through his career ala Steve Nash.  Hinrich does seem to fit the historical class of big PG's who can pass or shoot who, as John Hollinger pointed out last year, may not see their peaks until their 30's.  His stats compare well to Nash at this point in their careers.

Gray came into the NBA 10-15 years too late.  He's a nice option for some minutes off the bench, but nothing to really build around.  He's too damn slow to want as anything more than a very limited role player.

Obviously, some of that core that I identified above, will probably have to be used in attempts to improve the team via trade.  Put with a good SG, I think they can make for a hell of a starting 5.  That's why I'd be very much in favor of a McGrady trade.

by snley on Jan 13, 2008 8:36 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

McGrady?
Thats a funny subject... When it comes to T-Mac the only trade id do would be for Wallace and Duhon.. But still the question remains what has McGrady done and what is he going to do... Hes on the decline and Houston should trade him for youthful pieces to put around Yao. It'll never happen. The only person logically to go after is Pau hes young enough to fit in with our core and he fits our biggest need. But theres still flaws all over our team. Were playing 4 on 5 on both ends with Wallaces off. and Gordons def.

by TRiCioNeRo on Jan 13, 2008 9:03 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

McGrady trade probably wouldn't happen
The reason I'd be most in favor of it, though, is simply to get rid of Wallace.  I think Houston would be much more likely to take on that contract than Memphis.  Gordon's D I'm not too worried about when you consider that the team ranked first in Defensive Efficiency last year.  I just worry about Wallace's seeming ability to hold this team hostage.  It'd be great to get Pau, but it seems that Memphis still isn't quite serious about getting rid of him.  If they're not in a rush, then the Bulls deal would have to probably start with Deng and Noah/Thomas.  To me, once you add in the extra bodies for salary matching, the team still looks like it will be bound for a second round playoff exit.  Not to mention, Paxson probably won't do an in season trade.  What I'd love to see happen is that Thomas, Noah, and Sefolosha finally get their minutes so the Bulls know what they have heading into the offseason.

by snley on Jan 14, 2008 8:14 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

I agree
Kirk started off horribly this year (unexplicably bad) but he's starting to play solid D and be consistent again. We also won't get enough value for him in the marketplace anyway and he's not worthy of a fire sale.

Deng's timid (which is why he's an at best second fiddle).

I would try to keep the following from our team (Hinrich, Deng, Noah, Thomas).

I'd love to keep Nocioni (I know I'm on the rare side for this blog, but he's the only guy who plays his butt off every minute--and he's probably the best energy guy in the league, but if we can use him and Smith and maybe one of our potential guys (Thomas, Noah, Thabo) and a draft pick, then I'm for it.

I know everyone hates my minor tweak trade thoughts, but why not try to pry Mike Miller out of Memphis?  Miller's a big SF/SG who while he doesn't maybe have the huge games of Gordon, he's always more consistent and his size makes him less guardable under pressure because he can at least make a pass when double teamed.  I say trade Gordon, Khryapa, Griffin for Mike Miller.  It sounds like a lot (3 for 1), but isn't that much when you consider that Griffin and Khryapa are fluff on our team anyway.

Miller's the guy I'd always compare GOrdon to going into this season (except Miller's got height, and Gordon has the ability for more ridiculous scoring games), but Miller can score (16.4 pts a game, and can rebound (7 pts/game).

Memphis will pick up $8.5M of cap relief next year that they could use for Gordon (but likely would not).

SUre I'd love a superstar, but since it's unlikely we'll get one (and I don't really want Gimpy McGrady these days) I think we should make a tweak and get another piece in the draft.

We'll have to wait out Big Ben's contract anyway before we can really be competitive again (or at least we'll have to wait until after next season when Big Ben's salary is a valuable commodity again), so let's at least try to make some waves playing the young guys and lookign competitive:

Hinrich
Mike Miller
Deng
Thomas
Wallace

Bench: Noah, Nocioni, Smith, Duhon, Thabo, Gray

This would be a minor tweak, but we still would have the assets for a more major tweak, and if that never happened, we'll at least have a more consistent starting lineup....Miller will help to really keep the defenses honest and with the size he has, he can at least keep a hand in the face of the bigger guys, which will slow them down a bit more than BG.

I still like Gordon, but we ain't keeping him anyway, so let's just end the BG experience while we can.

I also don't think (As all the analysts are saying on espn and si that the Bulls ahve the pieces for a blockbuster right now--salaries of Deng and Gordon are too low, and Hinrich/Noc with the BYC are too high), and nobody wants Wallace's mammoth cap killer contract.

by majoyenrac on Jan 14, 2008 12:43 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

Plus
I do think between Noah and Thomas we'll have a star PF/C in the works.

I know Thomas's attitude has cost him playing time, but from what I see (Even yesterdays 2 minutes at the end of the game) I see a big guy who can pass (that was an awesome pass at the end of the game that the announcers of course didn't watch) and a guy who can leap over everyone for rebounds/points.

He needs discipline and so does apparently Noah, and since that's the case, let's get a big man coach in there NOW.  

I think both of these guys can be better than the current Chandler, and I do think Noah might be the only leader in this bunch (but he's a rookie and a very loud rookie who needs a bit of maturing).

I'd love to see some development of players (something outside of Deng we haven't seen--I think Noce, Hinrich, Gordon developed naturally, Deng's the only guy who had a big jump).

Let's get a big man coach and see what they can do.....it's just a shame the Bulls haven't really had many stellar big men.  Last Thing I want to see is Stacey King in that role--although I might not mind it because the games would be easier to watch even when we're getting killed with Stacey not talking talking talking talking as much....

by majoyenrac on Jan 14, 2008 12:52 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

Gordon and parts for Mike Miller?
So what you're saying is you want the Bulls to score  70 points a game? Mike Miller is a nice player but you can get him for a lot less (ie Hinrich)

by alee7805 on Jan 14, 2008 6:59 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

No we can't
THe BYC and salaries wouldn't allow that trade to happen (Hinrich for Miller).  I like BG (I think he's got a ton of talent for a taller team--one with say a taller PG and strong seven foot Center who could play 30+ minutes a game and control the paint to hide BG's defensive lapses a bit more).....

I do think especially given this year and the fact that in the last 2 years we've drafted 2 taller SG's, that it's a sign that we want to give up on the BG experience...

Plus I think a lineup of Hinrich-Miller-Deng-Thomas/Smith-Wallace/Noah would add a boost to our hot and cold team by virtue that Miller is pretty much consistent (when he's given the opps, he'll get his scores) where Gordon can have games where he's open and misses everything.  Plus Miller can grab rebounds, passes as well as Gordon, can handle the ball better, and actually might be a better defender by virtue of his height....

Teams like Detroit wouldn't be able to completely outmuscle us with a big guard, and Mike Miller is a lot better than his league rep (since he's been lost on mostly mediocre Memphis teams and Memphis ain't really a hotbed for NBA talk either).

Memphis is sure to pull the plug on this one....and I think in this scenario we're trying something while giving us another trade piece (if Miller doesn't work, he's at least an $8.5M trade chip for a bigger trade later).

by majoyenrac on Jan 15, 2008 7:59 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

Was it as bad as the score looked?
I missed the game. I think this season is close to lost. We need to find a coach get rid of Wallace and develop some of the young players that would be one the floor if Wallace was not.
TMD- http://playahatersblog.blogspot.com

by TMD on Jan 13, 2008 4:48 PM CST   0 recs

It may have actually been worse.
I still have hope for the season, or at least I really want to keep having hope even though it gets harder and harder to maintain my delusions.

What I really want is for the players I still like on this team to somehow get rescued from this misery, which I think playing the young guys would accomplish.  They'd make mistakes, sure, but the whole attitude on the floor is different with the kids out there.

"I believe. I believe. It's silly, but I believe." (Miracle on 34th Street)

by wjb1492 on Jan 13, 2008 4:56 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

Worse
First quarter:
Bulls 22
Joe Johnson 19

So, yeah.

Can this season be saved by jumping?

by cubbybear on Jan 13, 2008 6:25 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

Can the fans?

by potato0328 on Jan 13, 2008 5:09 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

I believe that vote
has already been cast to no avail.
Insert sarcasm here.

by MarketMaker on Jan 13, 2008 5:25 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

I would find a way
to vote early and often,
TMD- http://playahatersblog.blogspot.com

by TMD on Jan 13, 2008 5:33 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

I think
Playing Thomas and Noah would be better than seeing Wallace out there. I really hope we can dump hi for Gasol or T-Mac. I would rather see Gasol, Gordon, Thabo,Deng and Thomas than what is on the court now.
TMD- http://playahatersblog.blogspot.com

by TMD on Jan 13, 2008 5:02 PM CST   0 recs

Oops!
I didn't even know they were playing today... missed it?  or maybe not!

by exult463 on Jan 13, 2008 5:08 PM CST   0 recs

comment to the K.C.'s article
hits the bulls-eye to one of this team's major problems..
"Maybe one of the Bulls' problems is that they have a guy who can't even play calling team meetings. When will Deng, Gordon, and Hinrich step up and be leaders?"

by exult463 on Jan 13, 2008 5:26 PM CST   0 recs

Does anybody here
think that there is a team in the NBA who would take Ben Wallace?  He has 2 and 1/2 years of making a lot of money and being terrible.  Who would benefit in any way from getting him on their roster? He might offer the least production per dollar of any non-injured player in the league.  I would love to get rid of him more than anyone, but I can't even imagine the Knicks would make this stupid of a mistake.  The writing is on the wall: His signing is the one move above all others that will eventually end the John Paxson era.
Insert sarcasm here.

by MarketMaker on Jan 13, 2008 5:31 PM CST   0 recs

Wasn't it
Reinsdorf who wanted BW in the first place?
Win, just win.

by sue369 on Jan 13, 2008 5:39 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

trading of Wallace
I have mentioned sending him to Houston as part of a McGrady trade. His $15 million per year and Duhon would match to McGrady's $18 million per year. He would help bolster their defense, okay maybe help. I just don't see getting out from under that without taking another terrible contract in return. No one is going to trade with us out of kindness in retrospect Tyson Chandler would look good right now
TMD- http://playahatersblog.blogspot.com

by TMD on Jan 13, 2008 5:42 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

don't give ike too much credit...
wallace is supposed to provide a team some toughness and defense, something the knicks lack.  if the rumors are true about knicks wanting to unload randolph, i'd take his fat jump shooting *ss straight up for wallace in a heartbeat.  he makes 13m vs wallace's 15m, and randolph has 3.5 years left on the deal. randolph can probably offset wallace's crappy rebounding numbers but probably not wallace's crappy roaming help defense. by subtraction, this trade would make us a little less crappy.

by leeac on Jan 13, 2008 10:53 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

An incremental improvement might be
all that we can hope for, so probably the best trade available is the one Matt mentioned a while back for in Maggette from the Clippers..

by exult463 on Jan 13, 2008 5:43 PM CST   0 recs

What a load of BS
Even though I like A-Drain and can understand his veteran opinion being of some value, I can't believe how an interim coach can respond to an overpaid player who is loafing through the season. Noah has enough reason for an outburst, considering this team's gross underachieving and head-shaking decision-making. This is a depleted Bulls team with ZERO passion, direly in need of the young energy that can be produced with minutes from players like Noah, Thomas, and Thabo. In them is potential that can be realized if they're actually given a respectable chance. Joe Smith and Ben Wallace are not the future, Chris Duhon isn't leading this team anywhere, and the thought of Noc as a go-to-guy with his wild three-point shooting and erratic offense makes me want to take a few years off from the Bulls. Noah should not have been benched; he should've been awarded Wallace's contract for actually caring. You're right Matt; what a f**king joke.

by ForWhomTheBullTolls on Jan 13, 2008 5:44 PM CST   0 recs

I agree with what you said
but Reinsdorf was reportedly pushing for the Wallace signing since he's buddies with his agent.  It would be interesting to know to what extent he was involved in that mess.  

by No bull on Jan 13, 2008 5:45 PM CST   0 recs

E-Rob, Tim Thomas or Wallace
out of the three, who is the bigger poison to the team...

It seems as if the competition is between Thomas and Wallace?

Kinda miss Big Sweetney and Othella now?  Wow, I believe the character building selections went out of the door with the high price purchase of Wallace.  

Maybe Ben Wallace is a serious problem....

by exult463 on Jan 13, 2008 5:53 PM CST   0 recs

Wallace by far
Because of his big contract, he actually has power in the organization.

by Big D on Jan 13, 2008 6:06 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

I have felt
That Wallace is a cancer for a while now. We paid too much for overpriced role player. In Detroit his shortcomings were overshawdowed by the four all stars in the starting line up with him. And letting him have so much say so in firing a coach and calling team meetings is crazy. He is in no position to call anything! If he were playing his ass off maybe but he is not no one on this team is. Griffin should shut up as well he should never see the floor play Thabo, Thomas, Noah and let Wallace and Griffin go have coffee with other retirees somewhere
TMD- http://playahatersblog.blogspot.com

by TMD on Jan 13, 2008 6:36 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

YTD: Reinsdorf made more on his crap
then all members of this blog together. Any problem?

by runio on Jan 13, 2008 6:20 PM CST   0 recs

Big Ben
Most of my posts on here recently have been about how bad Big Ben is, and I see no reason to stop now.  We all saw the Atlanta game, but think about these numbers:

Wallace shot 1-5 from the floor (20%).  Of the 4 misses, 2 were blocked.  He only took one shot from more than 5 feet (a 14 foot miss).  Wallace also shot 25% from the FT line.

I cannot understand how these numbers are acceptable under any standard.

by Stay Chisel on Jan 13, 2008 6:32 PM CST   0 recs

There's no statistic for grit...
Like the crap that sticks to your grille, not what Reggie Miller had oodles of.  Come to think of it, that's not a good thing.  Carry on piling on.
Can this season be saved by jumping?

by cubbybear on Jan 13, 2008 6:44 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

If its not Noce with you guys its Wallace
Scapegoat much guys???

You're  missing the boat.  The vote on the Noah thing was
unanimous.  So you're going to bitch and moan over who called the meeting or took the vote to Boylan??  Makes no sense at all.
Forest and trees are different things.

Its taking some of you awhile to come to grips with the fact that
there are much much bigger issues on this team than Wallace
or how many minutes Thomas gets or any other single issue.
You need to let some of this piddling stuff go and look at the
broader issues.

They don't need to take it back to square one but the answer to this team's issues are not on the roster right now and its hard to see how Pax is going to trade his way out of this.   There isn't going to be a +/- hero trotting up on a white horse to save the
season.   Pax needs new guards and a new coach, at a minimum.
He's drafted poorly the last two years and failed to be proactive  in trades.   He's put poorly matched players together and its catching up with him.  

Look. Atlanta sucks but they're the team with the brighter near term.  This could get much much worse even if Wallace never plays another minute and Thomas averages 35mpg from here on in

by Rusty LaRue on Jan 13, 2008 6:45 PM CST   0 recs

Right on...
though Atlanta has some decent players.  I would take Joe Johnson over Gordon or Josh Smith over Deng or Horford over Tyrus or Noah.

by Kemp on Jan 13, 2008 7:28 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

Worse?
If we lose more we get a good pick next year, if we stay the same were going to get the tenth pick. Playoffs? Were having problems with the Knicks, Sixers and Hawks. Nothing is worse than mediocracy in this leauge. Except a 28-12 4th quater at home against the Knicks.  

by TRiCioNeRo on Jan 13, 2008 7:38 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

Yeah worse
There's a lot worse than being mediocre, just ask Tim Floyd.

We'll be getting more games like NY and Atl.  Get ready for this Feb road trip.

by Rusty LaRue on Jan 13, 2008 7:45 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

I agree
The Bulls guard(s) situation is bad, very bad.  But, I'm a bit loss since Paxson missed out on Brandon Roy.  I don't see how this situation can be fixed easily or quickly.  Hinrich, has some limitations, but he's a decent player.  But, Hinrich needs a special player along side of him to help compliment his strengths and mask his weaknesses.  This type of complimentary player (a SG with leadership and decent PG skills) don't come easily and don't come in the draft frequently.  

Therefore this then leaves Kirk somewhat abandoned trying to progress (playing with the likes of Duhon and Thabo) while his weaknesses are being exposed to the point of destroying his confidence.

He's like a wounded promised champion race horse (analogy to not having a complimentary backcourt mate). I question whether he'll ever achieve consistency (Bulls mgmt will ever be able to acquired a suitable backcourt mate).  Or should he be pawned and sacificed (given up by the Bulls and traded to the Heat or the Blazers to become all that he can be playing along side one of his b-ball leather soul-mates in his generation) for a first round draft pick and other considerations. Or else he'll waste and pine away playing for the non-complimentary player case assembled for him by the Bulls.

Gordon will be ok as a 6th man, period.  Nothing more.

Therefore, the Bulls guard situation consists of a shell of what he could be PG, a scoring 3rd guard off the bench, Duhon, Thabo and Griffin.  All 5 aren't starters in the NBA, with the exception of Kirk only matched with the appropriate SG.  Yes, this is a bigger problem for Paxson.

by exult463 on Jan 13, 2008 9:31 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

You nailed it.
The problem isn't Nocioni's "chucking" and it isn't Tyrus' or Noah's "burn", just as it wasn't Skiles' rotations.  Those are minor issues as to why the team is such a mess.

I think it is obvious right now that the Tyrus/Wallace/Thabo offseason was utterly devastating.  Additionally, Noah seems to be a wasted pick, although it is hard to say it was a mistake because of what else was available at that spot.  

It is now easy to defend Gordon (especially when Wallace is on the floor) so the only scorer on the team is neutralized and he doesn't have any other top-level skills.  

Hinrich started off the year playing horribly but when he plays to his averages, he makes the Bulls a middle-of-the-road team.  I think that's the ceiling right now.

Obviously there are no easy answers but I don't see any way this team can remain intact over the next five weeks.  That will have to be the start of 08-09.

by nateroth on Jan 13, 2008 10:14 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

I never thought I'd say this
But out of the contracts that the Bulls have done, this offseason has been the best by far.

Noce was overpriced, but saved the season with his overconfident chucker mentality, and Joe Smith has the highest PER on the team.  If Noah and Gray count, they have made significant contributions and their selections should be noted(Gray might be the steal of the draft, if he can become more consistent).  Also, refusing to give Gordon and Deng more money may have not only saved money, but may have just saved the Bulls' future for the next few years, as they have not been worth big-time money all year, and the leap forward has not happened, for the team or the players.

The big-money signings of BW and Hinrich(the former far more than the latter) were good at the time, but now appear foolish.  When we look back, Paxson's decision making seems to be getting slightly better, IMHO.  Ben Wallace is an outlier, and I think that Reinsdorf is at fault there.

I think a big-time coach can save this team.  Only a coach that really draws some water(LB, for one), will sit Wallace and be able to take the heat.  Noah, Smith, Gray, Thomas and Thabo are now the most important assets to evaluate, as Deng seems to be stable rather than improving at this moment in time, and Gordon enjoys his new role, but doesn't seem to be earning a starting spot just yet.

Better decisions up to the trade deadline and this offseason are something I think have the potential to give us back the hope that the Bulls regression has taken from us.

Can this season be saved by jumping?

by cubbybear on Jan 13, 2008 6:52 PM CST   0 recs

You're right
There are a lot of problems on this team and the blame falls on Paxson.
TMD- http://playahatersblog.blogspot.com

by TMD on Jan 13, 2008 6:53 PM CST   0 recs

paxsons created a monster
and its out of his control now.

paxson needs to be fired and they need someone who doesnt have a mancrush on each of his draft picks. fire sale would be better than watching this team. it makes me sick.

by Jbasic89 on Jan 13, 2008 6:59 PM CST   0 recs

Well
I do not care one way or the other about the Noah sit-down.  I do, however, think that Wallace is responsible for a lot of the problems with this team.

Wallace's defense does not make up for his lack of offense.  The Bulls do not have the kind of offensive firepower necessary to play 4 on 5 on that end of the court.  Many of Big Ben's misses are basically turnovers.

Other problems on this team include the midget backcourt, which includes the related problem of starting Chris Duhon.  Chew on these stats:  Duhon took 5 shots and missed them all.  Of those, 3 were blocked.  Duhon is shooting 37% from the floor on the year.

Between Wallace and Duhon, we have two starters who combined for 3 points on 10% shooting in over 51 minutes tonight.  Does anyone know of a team with a winning record who can make the same claim?

by Stay Chisel on Jan 13, 2008 7:12 PM CST   0 recs

What a freaking joke...
..that the one guy on the team who has shown some enthusiasm, fight and talent gets benched by overpaid and undertalented losers like Griffin and Big Ben. So punishment can be handed out arbitrarily by Big Ben and other sundry losers? What the hell is Boylan getting paid for? It would be such a shame to see Noah lose his heart like TT & Thabo did.

by bullsfaninbigapple on Jan 13, 2008 7:31 PM CST   0 recs

Your right
These young guys need confidence and someone needs to take the horns. Noah will be our Stephen Jackson once Bens gone. Also im glad to see another bulls fan in the area.

by TRiCioNeRo on Jan 13, 2008 7:43 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

What more needs to be seen?
At what point does Pax pull the plug on this "core", send down a mandate to Boylan to play the young guys more, and deal rapidly depreciating assets like Hinrich and Gordon?  You don't make a deal for a Gasol now, because this team is on par with the Memphis Grizzlies, not a player away from legitimate contention.  The only keeper out of this core is Deng.  See if a contender can be built around him, Ty, Noah, and Thabo.  At least the model will be based on size, length, and athleticism, rather than one that generates unfavorable mismatches at every position.  Pax put his eggs in a basket being carried by two miniature combo guards.  Note:  not miniature point guards, mini combo guards.  I demand that the third rebuilding effort to begin sooner than later because it's obvious that this team is 2nd round material at best and lottery bound in its current state.  Then we can see if Paxson learned anything from his first attempt and can come to a quick decision on whether Paxson can be the architect of a contender or if he can only be successful via making safe draft picks and pilfering Isiah Thomas.  

by messwiththebull on Jan 13, 2008 8:48 PM CST   0 recs

Wow, first Skiles, then Big Ben
Not to say that those two aren't blameless, but it seems whenever this team sucks most of the griping centers around one main guy. Wallace doesn't seem that much worse than he was last year, when the team was doing fine. Guess we all need someone to vent at, and few seem to want it to be part of the Deng/Gordon/Hinrich core.

by T Maple on Jan 13, 2008 8:50 PM CST   0 recs

He's declined in two really important areas
He's shooting 32.9% from the field down from a bad 45.3%.  That's almost 2 points lost per game.  And his defensive rebounding has dropped almost 1.5 boards/game.  Given the deline in team defensive rebounding, those boards are turned into points for the other team through offensive rebounds.  So Wallace is giving up another 1-2 points on the defensive end this year as well.  So Wallace is clearly responsible for 3-4 points of the team's 10 point change in point differential.  Being personally responsible for 30-40% of the negative change at a minimum is significant.  That's before considering his often lazy ass defense, drag on other players' offense, and his impact on keeping Tyrus and Noah on the bench.  Wallace deserves more crap than anyone else.  Although Kirk and Ben come the closest in terms of negative impact.

by Scotter on Jan 13, 2008 9:27 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

Just got back from the game
I scalped 5th row center court seats and I got a great look at the debacle.  The guy practically gave me the tickets, I think he knew I was a bulls fan and felt sorry for me.

Boy did the game get away from them quick.  The biggest difference was the aggressiveness.  Joe Johnson looked unbelievable out there.  Childress was trying to dunk everything, when he wasn't travelling.  And the officiating was awful, both ways.  Noc got pulled down on that spin move by Anthony Johnson, Johnson grabbed him on the shoulder.  Couple of the Hawks were mugged on dunks and no calls.  Kirk was hit on those jumpshots he bricked and there was no call.  For all the travels and palms they did call, there were more they should have called.  It was a very inconsistent job by the refs.  Not that it made much difference when the bulls came out with no aggression.  They were up 6-2 I think, turned it over a couple of times and all of a sudden I looked up and it was 25-8.  My wife asked me if they were always this bad...

The most interesting thing about the game were the size of the players.  There is no way BG is more than 6 feet, and Noc is a lot bigger than I thought, still just as slow as on TV though.   And Aaron Gray deserves the nickname "Sasquatch."   Joe Smith is really big, too.  I was imnpressed with how professional he seemed compared to some of the other guys.  During warmups, he spent at least 20 minutes going around, taking passes from the coaches after setting a pick and practicing jumpshots.  At the same time Wallace was jacking up fadeaway 20 footers and taking the occasional free throw.  Noah was running laps.  Thabo was working hard and took a lot of shots, too.

The strangest looking guy was Marvin Williams.  If you've ever seen Ben Wallace in person, the first thing you notice about him is his huge arms.  Well, don't take this the wrong way, but Marvin Williams has the ass of a 300lb woman.  He can't even stand up straight, it's like some kind of birth defect.  I feel bad for the guy.

I got a picture with Red an Wayne after the game.  I think this season has taken a decade of Red's life, and he might not have had 10 years left, he is looking old and tired.  You can see how frustrated he is.  

Nocioni-Khryapa in '08

by bullshooter on Jan 13, 2008 9:11 PM CST   0 recs

Prior to every game at the UC...
Ben Wallace warms up by shooting various three pointers. He always ends by taking a fadeaway three from the corner nearest the tunnel leading to the Bulls locker room.

And yes, Gordon looks even smaller in person. I stood next to him earlier this season and towered over him at a modest 6'3".

LSU 38 OHIO STATE 24 - LSU IS THE NATIONAL CHAMPION AND I AM THE KING OF BOURBON STREET!!

by 1958ChiTown on Jan 13, 2008 9:25 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

Oh and I forgot the highlight of the game
at least for bulls fans, maybe.  In the beginning of the fourth they did the kiss came, which is always fun.  They ended it with Duhon and Joe Smith on the bench which broke the whole place up.  Joe wasn't too excited about it.
Nocioni-Khryapa in '08

by bullshooter on Jan 13, 2008 9:36 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

Very interesting ...
Thanks.. That funny about MW..

by exult463 on Jan 14, 2008 10:54 AM CST to parent up   0 recs