I feel better: Hollingers NBA efficiency ranking for Centers

by NBA Observer on Jan 10, 2008 4:16 PM CST

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/statistics?sort=per&qual=true&pos=c&seasonType= 2&action=upsell&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fnba%2fhollinger%2fstatistics% 3fsort%3dper%26qual%3dtrue%26pos%3dc%26seasonType%3d2

1    Amare Stoudemire, PHO
2    Dwight Howard, ORL
3    Tim Duncan, SAS
4    Yao Ming, HOU
5    Al Jefferson, MIN
6    Andrew Bynum, LAL
7    Brendan Haywood, WAS
8    Andris Biedrins, GSW
9    Chris Kaman, LAC
10    Marcus Camby, DEN
11    Shaquille O'Neal, MIA
12    Tyson Chandler, NOR
13    Zydrunas Ilgauskas, CLE
14    Joakim Noah, CHI
15    Glen Davis, BOS
16    Sean Williams, NJN
17    Eddy Curry, NYK
18    Samuel Dalembert, PHI
19    Kris Humphries, TOR
20    Alonzo Mourning, MIA
21    Erick Dampier, DAL
22    Nazr Mohammed, CHA
23    Brad Miller, SAC
24    Jermaine O'Neal, IND
25    Stromile Swift, MEM
26    Andrew Bogut, MIL
27    Antonio McDyess, DET
28    Kurt Thomas, SEA
29    Jeff Foster, IND
30    Ronny Turiaf, LAL
31    Andray Blatche, WAS
32    Anderson Varejao, CLE
33    Brian Skinner, PHO
34    Al Horford, ATL
35    DeSagana Diop, DAL
36    Rasho Nesterovic, TOR
37    Ben Wallace, CHI

Brendan Haywood AND Andrey Blatche are ahead of Wallace.

My Wallace for Amare trade still looks good. Do it Pax.

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Brendan Haywood AND Andrey Blatche are ahead of Wallace.

So is somebody named Joakim Noah. We should get that guy.

by vanillablue on Jan 10, 2008 4:39 PM CST reply actions

right, that should be the real story

of this diary. I know David Thorpe feels our pain on that matter.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 10, 2008 10:41 PM CST up reply actions

Yeah, I'm sure the Suns would love Wallace now

by Big D on Jan 10, 2008 4:51 PM CST reply actions

Also interesting on this list

is how high Al Jefferson is ranked. Even though the KG trade might put Boston over the top, and McHale has taken a lot of heat over the years as a GM, I think he did about as well as humanly possible in that deal. Jefferson is already a star, and he'll still be a star ten years after KG has retired.

by alec on Jan 10, 2008 5:00 PM CST reply actions

You mean...

You mean other than Deng, Chandler and what was the #2 pick in the 2006 draft? Jefferson is pretty good but McHale messed up huge in that one.

The Timberwolves would be looking at Chandler, Deng and the #2 pick and #6 pick in that draft. Forseeably taking Brandon Roy and one of Tyrus Thomas/LaMarcus Aldridge. They could be enjoying what the Blazers are now.

by CubFan81 on Jan 10, 2008 5:05 PM CST up reply actions

Wasn't KG still (at least publicly)

resisting the idea of getting traded anywhere at that time?

by alec on Jan 10, 2008 5:13 PM CST up reply actions

true...

but McHale runs the team. Everyone and their mother (heck my mom even asked me one time about Kevin Garret) knew that KG would play as hard as he always does regardless of where he played. That he loved Minnesota was a given, but the GM had to know the team wasn't having any chance of competing then or in the future. If KG has that much pull in the front office than it would be McHale's job to go to him and say "Look, we love you but the Bulls have made us a pretty good offer. I'll say no right now if you want me to, or I can look into it." Instead he kept telling Pax and KG and the media that they weren't trading KG as they were going to build around him and win with him. He traded him a year too late and in the process just sent him to his old team so that at least one city wouldn't hate him. Man I wish Steve Kerr would send us Amare for junk. He'd easily vault Pippen to the top 3 Bulls of the dynasty era.

by CubFan81 on Jan 11, 2008 9:49 PM CST up reply actions

After looking at that list

The 'Ben Wallace Sucks' meter just went up 50 points.

by RogersPark Kris on Jan 10, 2008 5:03 PM CST reply actions

'Zo

20 Alonzo Mourning, MIA

I love that he's behind a guy who isn't even playing any more!!

::shakes head::

"I'm very important. I have many leather-bound books and my apartment smells of rich mahogany." - Ron Burgundy

by mdmnd9294 on Jan 10, 2008 5:06 PM CST reply actions

huh?

"My Wallace for Amare trade still looks good. Do it Pax."

Who are you, Mariotti?

Of course it's a good deal for the Bulls, nobody questioned that. It was a stupid proposal because it was such a horrendous idea from the Suns perspective. Although, I'm still trying to forward on your memo asserting that they're not winning the title. Maybe that'll put them over the edge.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 10, 2008 5:08 PM CST reply actions

Steve Kerr

Beavis will probably fire D'Antoni before he trades Amare for Wallace.

Come on now. It could happen Matt.

Not really.

by NBA Observer on Jan 11, 2008 9:17 AM CST up reply actions

I know all the stats guys will refute this...

But there isn't a direct 1 to 1 correlation between "efficiency" and value. That said, the ranking is still pretty depressing.

by Kemp @ Blog a Bull on Jan 10, 2008 5:17 PM CST reply actions

It depends what your talking

about. If your complaining about per minute or per possession stats again, then you deserve to be refuted. If your just trying to say that PER is not the best measure of player contribution than your not saying anything any stat guy would disagree.

by Scotter on Jan 10, 2008 5:41 PM CST up reply actions

See...

You misinterpret everything I say; my arguments are not that stats are irrelevant, but that statistical analysis cannot exist in and of themselves. Moreover, it is bothersome that like in any place where statistics are used, one can apply specific statistics and doctrines to fit their view. I trust Per40 and Per Possession statistics, however, I realize that they do not exist in a vacuum; these statistics can easily make an accurate listing of which team or player is most efficient whihc will be largely accurate, however, they fail to explain why the the third most efficient team loses to the seventh.

This is the case with this list and many other of the sort.

by Kemp @ Blog a Bull on Jan 11, 2008 7:49 PM CST up reply actions

No one with a brain disagrees with any of that,

so I don't see the point of your original comment. You're fighting windmills.

by Scotter on Jan 12, 2008 2:26 PM CST up reply actions

If the windmill is...

the defense of Duhon.

by Kemp @ Blog a Bull on Jan 13, 2008 8:23 PM CST up reply actions

no one will refute it

I think the Ol' Observer is wasting valuable wasted time posting this. PER isn't hard to look up, and simply ranking players by PER is the first step down Misunderstanding PER Road. NBAO didn't even call it "PER."

Fire Boylan!

by hscs on Jan 10, 2008 5:41 PM CST up reply actions

STOP!

this efficiency ranking is flawed. i want to see a new one for centers who are 6'5" and shorter! then wallace would be way up there!

what?... you say wallace would still be ranked 17th? ok. forget it, wallace bites.

by leeac on Jan 10, 2008 5:48 PM CST reply actions

Not that I want to defend Wallace

but PER is an primarily an offensive measure, and some feel it gives too much weight to high scorers. So Wallace was never going to be high on that list. His best season was only 18.6. Noah is at 17+ now. That said, it'd be nice if he'd at least attempt the layup when he's open.

Nocioni-Khryapa in '08

by bullshooter on Jan 10, 2008 9:01 PM CST reply actions

The Body

Would probably say that his definition of "open" is different from yours.

Can this season be saved by jumping?

by cubbybear on Jan 10, 2008 9:09 PM CST up reply actions

You know what Alec would say?

Wallace needs to develop a new idea of his "self", one that dunks and makes open layups. Unfortunately, Wallace only has a "rebounding occasionally" self right now.

Nocioni-Khryapa in '08

by bullshooter on Jan 10, 2008 9:13 PM CST up reply actions

You're scaring me.

by alec on Jan 10, 2008 10:27 PM CST up reply actions

The corpse

For every rebound the corpse gets at the UC, going forward, the announcer will say, "That just cost us $18,500."

by chgobr on Jan 11, 2008 5:44 PM CST up reply actions

Wallace is trash under any analysis

I understand that PER is weighted towards offense, but there is no stat on the planet to show that Ben Wallace is even having a mediocre season. It kills me every time someone says that "Ben does things that don't show up in the stat sheet." That's because there are no stats kept for number of mental vacations taken during games, times you get outrebounded by lames, instances in which you fail to box out or number of open shots within 5 feet of the hoop not taken. Put those things in the box score and Ben Wallace will fill it up.

by Stay Chisel on Jan 12, 2008 4:48 PM CST reply actions