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Bulls (reportedly) re-sign Andres Nocioni

Trib reports 5 years, $38m.

This is the same amount that's been reported before, so we've been hashing this out over the past couple days. Is it 'market rate'? Sure, average players like Nocioni get fat contracts every offseason. He's likely better than some guys who will be getting paid more. So this signing is fine in a vaccum but that doesn't make me happy about this in terms of what the Bulls are doing with their roster.

Nocioni gets a 5 year commitment before Luol Deng or Ben Gordon. Considering Pax has repeatedly expressed a desire (echoing the sentiment of the entire NBA-watching world) to acquire a big-time scoring power forward, and Tyrus Thomas is still on the team, they're now committing roughly $7-8m a season on the 3rd best PF and backup for the 10 minutes Luol Deng isn't on the floor.

There is now very little roster flexibility, as Pax has shown an unwillingness (correctly or not) to deal Hinrich, Deng, or Gordon. Can't deal Wallace. The guys on rookie contracts can't get much in return due to cap restraints on trades. Upon putting ink to paper, Nocioni automatically becomes an unwanted contract to whatever team wants to unload one of their better players, who usually look for picks, prospects, or expiring contracts.

(Although maybe that means all these ideas of a Nocioni sign/trade for Gasol,Kobe,KG,etc. were far fetched for that very same reason.)

Pax says "He's one of those guys who have helped change a lot of things around here in terms of how we go about business". Well that's fine. But 'the culture' is changed already, and there's no need to reward that with future earnings. Now what you should be going about in your business is contending for a title. That means upgrading the power forward position by getting guys better than Nocioni.

The only way I see is that upgrade now coming is with a trade of Tyrus Thomas, who for the same reasons he's the better candidate as a backup forward than Noc (cheaper, better) also makes him more valuable to other teams in a trade. However it's hard to see a package of Thomas/Noah (or Sefolosha or Gordon for that matter) and the expiring deals of Duhon and Khryapa getting enough salary together to make a major upgrade.

But what I'm really afraid of is an upgrade not happening, and Nocioni either becoming the starter or the 6th man. Meaning that both Pax has failed to find a frontcourt complement to Ben Wallace and Skiles will have an excuse to limit Tyrus Thomas' minutes. And like many other teams in the league, the Bulls will have their very own mid-level contract they can't move because they overpaid for a role player for 5 years.

Retaining a good player like Noc to a 'reasonable' contract isn't by itself reason to fret, I just don't see now after this signing where the team can get appreciably better before next season. And to me that's a failure of a summer.

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The Noc signing isn't about
getting better.  It's about not getting any worse.  For all his flaws, Noc is still a better player than Joe Smith, Mikki Moore, P.J. Brown, and Chris Mihm.  He's the best free agent the Bulls could have aquired this summer.  If I thought Tyrus was merely a cheap backup PF like you do, then your position is understandable.  But, I believe he's going to start at least 2/3 of the season.  Tyrus is where this team improves this summer.  Resigning Noc is just about maintaining the status quo.

by Scotter on Jul 6, 2007 2:18 PM CDT   0 recs

I'd say
Noc at 2/3 minutes at the 4, and Tyrus 1/3 minutes is worse than Tyrus getting half and Joe Smith getting the other half. Plus you save some scratch and you're not signing Joe Smith (or whoever) to a 5 year contract.

I think Tyrus is a cheap backup PF if this team was going to win the East. I like him a lot but don't see him being the starter with Wallace and getting 30+ minutes a night.

I don't recall a time during the Detroit series where I said to myself 'if only a healthy Nocioni was out there we'd be right with these guys'. They need someone that gets double-teamed in the post. I can't see it for Tyrus this season and I know it ain't happening with Noc.

I think it's too hard roster-wise to pay for the status quo and pay to get better now.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 6, 2007 2:27 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Noc is getting to play 2/3 of the min
at PF.  He's never even played 1/2 the min at PF.  He's going to average 24-27 min/g.  That's at most 20 min at the PF slot.

As for the double teaming.  I've been wathcing tapes I have from the season.  I'm starting to think Deng has more potential than I thought he had.  Noc is a key piece to being able to put Deng in the post as a SF.

by Scotter on Jul 6, 2007 2:39 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

watching Deng get pushed around by tayshaun prince
popped my idea balloon of getting Deng to play more in the post.

But he's (obviously) still young.

I get what you're saying and your optimism makes me less depressed about this, but I think the same reasoning could've applied by getting some other veteran big man for 1-2 seasons while letting Deng and Tyrus develop their post games. 5 years for Noc. 5!

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 6, 2007 2:42 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

when flops turn into technical fouls
this is going to look worse.

by hscs on Jul 6, 2007 2:19 PM CDT   0 recs

Trade
Gordon for a power forward because Ben is going to cost to much to resign him and hes to small. I think we can get a good 4 to our team and Contend.

by eross226 on Jul 6, 2007 2:19 PM CDT   0 recs

I don't see Nocioni's return limiting TT's minutes
because the team no longer has PJ Brown.

So Tyrus will start and Nocioni will come in to spell him for 20 minutes a game.

by 1958ChiTown on Jul 6, 2007 2:23 PM CDT   0 recs

20 minutes for 7-8
is a lot of money for a limited amount of minutes

by Sambossanova on Jul 6, 2007 2:24 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

It'd make things interesting
am I talking about both sides of my mouth when I say  how much I like Tyrus Thomas but also don't like the idea of him being the starter?

Sorry if I do, but it's how I think about that position. His similarities to Wallace plus his age can't shake my feeling that he's perfect as the first big off the bench.

And that's in a perfect world. Until proven otherwise I can't see a situation where Skiles plays Tyrus more minutes than Noc, let alone starts over him.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 6, 2007 2:29 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I think about TT
the same way. As you mentioned in your post, the Noc signing means that they're not going to find that name post player before the season.  You're right.  But I think that's always been the case - - where was it going to come from?  To me, TT's improvement (and he'd better be in the frickn' gym every day) is where the Bulls get better.  More minutes become available without Brown, but I'd actually like to see TT start as I think Noc stablizes the 2nd unit a little bit better and he could enter for either Deng or Thomas.

by EdNealy on Jul 6, 2007 2:37 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

He'll start over Noc
because Tyrus gives us tremendous 'playing' size at the 4.  This kid has a chance to lead the league in blocks, and at 6'9" that's impressive ability.  Pax has stated all offseason this team's need for size, and Tyrus obviously gives us much more of that than Noc.  Sure, Nocioni is a better scorer than TT right now, but the Bulls are accustomed to getting very little scoring from the 4 anyhow.  I believe Tyrus will be a better scorer for us this year at the 4 than PJ was last year--which I realize is not saying a lot--but it's an upgrade nontheless.  

I can't, however say he'll play as good defesne as PJ did, and that will hurt.  I'm hoping we re-sign PJ if he doesn't retire; I think we badly need his services cuz there's a good chance TT will find himself in foul trouble with increased minutes.

Besides, Nocioni is the Consumate bench player: has the ability to score in bunches, brings a lot of energy, is unselfish and plays pretty good defense.  That energy is needed off the bench midway through the 2nd quarter.  

by Starred4Life on Jul 12, 2007 12:20 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

ahhh
that post made me nauseas.  your probably right. bulls do seem to be regressing.  I dont agree with pax.  Why the hell didnt he wait or at least extend deng and maybe gordon first.  

by Sambossanova on Jul 6, 2007 2:24 PM CDT   0 recs

Worst Decision of the Pax Era
Unless the last year or two are Team or Mutual Options.  I don't see how Noce fits in.  Deng eventually will play 40mpg, as will Gordon and Hinrich.  Having a revolving door at the big two spots is disruptive, and hampers both Noah's and Tyrus' growth.  Not happy today, and feeling like Paxson got pushed around by Wallace, who may have had little interest, and just wanted Noce to get overpaid, which I consider this to be.  7mil/year is absurd for a guy who should only get 20mpg.  And who is a tweener in the worst way, if he can't play SF.

Contract would be tradeable if it weren't until he is 32.  Not to mention five years, longer than the guys we're trading for.  I think this locks us into the status quo, and kills any future cap flexibility we might have had with declining hinrich and wallace deals.  The jury's still out on this one, but for right now Paxson is guilty of valuing intangibles over tangible basketball skills, of which Noce has few.

Noah and Tyrus and Wallace, OH MY!

by cubbybear on Jul 6, 2007 2:29 PM CDT   0 recs

The report mentioned
a 6th year team option. I think the 5 years are guaranteed.

by kingj41 on Jul 6, 2007 2:32 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Saw that after I typed
That's making sure that we have the rights to a 33yo tweener.  Crazy Paxson, Crazy.

by cubbybear on Jul 6, 2007 2:37 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

that last sentence is really important
I always joke around with the 'grit' stuff that Pax and Skiles reference because I didn't really believe THEY took it as seriously as they make it seem. But this signing and drafting Noah make me wonder.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 6, 2007 2:32 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

few skills?
Noc is a good rebounder, period, not just for his size.  He averaged 15ppg in limited minutes last year.  He's a solid to very good 3pt shooter.  He HAS to be one of the league leaders in charges taken (charges/flops are easy to criticize/laugh at now, but don't forget how many Noc charges/flops caused you to pump your first last year), and for his position (which I believe to be a 3), he defends the rim very well.  On top of all that, Noc is unique in the fact that he brings so much energy to whatever group is on the floor, either getting the UC crowd worked up to a lather or quieting the opposing crowd as we start a run of our own.

I think we just need to stop associating 8mil and the term "bench player" and its conventional meanings.  Nocioni is not your typical bench player, so conventional thought about 'bench players' doesn't apply to this dude.  This guy brings so much in so many different areas, he's definitely worth the investment.  I LOVE the character, determination and work ethic this team possesses.  Not only does it make watching the Bulls extremely fun to watch and easy to root for, but it wins games.    

In my opinion, it is the Bulls' improvement in the areas of character, determination and work ethic that are as responsible as anything else for the Bulls turnaround.  Noc helps to preserve and reinforce this during practice, in the locker room and most importantly on the floor.  Therefore, in my opinon he is to be highly valued.  

Don't forget Nocioni was heavily sought after by many teams when he signed with the Bulls.

He's also the proud owner of an Olympic Gold Medal he won while starting for the Argentine team.  

Dude's got skills bro.  

by Starred4Life on Jul 12, 2007 12:47 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

The worst thing is
The Bulls still need a starting PF.
It seems no other teams really showed interest. Did Pax over-extend himself? I know he said he'd match any offer, but if other teams were offering I'm sure he would've considered a sign & trade deal.
Maybe Pax made his move too soon and in the end we have a long term contract that no team will really want to trade for considering no one else made such an offer to Nocioni. He's no longer a trade asset.

by kingj41 on Jul 6, 2007 2:36 PM CDT   0 recs

good point
Although whenever someone asks why a GM 'rushes', it's likely due to information we're not aware of. Maybe the Grizzlies were actually quite close.

But Noc's restricted status means that even if he accepted an offer with the Grizzle today the Bulls still had 7 days to figure something out.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 6, 2007 2:39 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Pax acted quick
cuz he wanted Noc on the team, period.

I think by now it's fair to say Pax knows 'the art of the deal,' so if was even Slightly interested in trading Noc, he would've waited just as you guys have suggested to gauge other teams' interest.

by Starred4Life on Jul 12, 2007 12:53 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I will say that it is odd that Paxson departed
from standing Reinsdorf protocol by setting the market himself. I wonder what accounts for that urgency. A cynic might say it is an artifact of some personal allegiance. That seems to be the majority opinion here. You could also argue that Paxson is sending a message to the rest of the League that he takes care of his players. Conversely, the urgency could be the product of some long term plan that Paxson has regarding trades of certain other perimeter players. I personally subscribe to the latter.

However, as is obvious, I like Nocioni and I won't bemoan the signing. I just hope that Paxson did his due diligence on Nocioni's foot. That is a nagging injury.

by 1958ChiTown on Jul 6, 2007 2:41 PM CDT   0 recs

hmm...
true, maybe Pax has made up his mind about dealing Gordon and knows he'll need outside shooting from somewhere else in his absence.

I don't get why the organization can't get behind Gordon like they laud Nocioni, even though they're both pretty bad defenders in their own special ways.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 6, 2007 2:45 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

+/- says Gordon's scoring makes up for it
and Nocioni's scoring doesn't.

by hscs on Jul 6, 2007 2:50 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

This is based solely on circumstantial
evidence and conjecture, but there definitely seemed to be some tension between Gordon and the franchise at the end of this season.

by 1958ChiTown on Jul 6, 2007 2:51 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Maybe it has more to do with
BG's reported "I am a starter" mentality vs. Noc's "The team is better if I come off the bench" approach than with defensive ability.
"They had me do a psychology test and I asked Coach Skiles if that affected his coaching. He laughed and said, `No way.'" (Joakim Noah)

by wjb1492 on Jul 6, 2007 7:14 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Gordon is the one
who needs to go!

He just doesn't fit this team.  Let's just say it: Gordon CAN'T play defense.  His body just won't let him, that's all.  

He's another superb bench player but his ego is already starting to quiver a bit about that too.  Gordon still takes wild, low-percentage shots.  

His stroke, however, is as pure as they come as we all know already.  It'd be tough to give up his scoring on a team devoid of scorers, but as long as Thabo can provide us with 15ppg in his stead the impact will be lessened due to the improved scoring we should get from TT at the 4.

Ultimately, BG's lack of size will punch his ticket in Chicago as long as there is a VERY talented big guard in Sefolosha on the bench.  BG served us well during his time here, providing clutch and consistent scoring when we had none.  He's got my respect.

by Starred4Life on Jul 12, 2007 1:02 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

taking a breather
i don't think there's any argument that Paxson overpaid for Nocioni and, even if there is, you won't find it here.
however, i do see some slivers of a silver lining here:
a) Pax has been pretty spot on w/ his moves so I'm thinking he has an idea of what he's doing.
b) As I'm sure many of you have noticed, Grizzlies' option "B" is Verajao.  If they manage to sign him (and it looks promising), we've maintained the status quo and dealt a heavy blow to our chief conference rival.  There is a morsel of relevance in this, if it plays out.
c) Paxson has to be intent on bringing back both Deng and Lil' Ben, right?  I mean, if he's willing to spend 38 mill on Noce w/o a second thought, then he has to be hellbent on resigning Deng and Ben this summer.  The Noce move was all about maintaining the status quo, well, not securing Ben and/or Deng would be inconsistent with that now stated team goal (well, it was sort of stated).
d) Noce isn't all bad.  I mean, he was a beast in last year's playoffs.  Granted, that was last year's playoffs, but he performed very well.  If he gets reasonably close to those numbers for even a month next year, he will be a tradeable assets ... there's too many stupid/desperate GM's out there for him not to be.
e) 27-32 should still be productive years for Noce.  If he was a center or a shooting guard (of similar 'worth'), then there could definitely be an issue with his productiveness.  However, his game is such that any potential decline in atheleticism should not hinder his ability to contribute to the team.  Of course, if Plantar Fasciitis-like issues continue to dog him, then this last point goes out the window.

I guess this is a long way of saying the jury is still out for me on this move.  If it doesn't keep us from resigning Deng and Ben and if Tyrus still sees relatively significant time, then I'm ok with this move.  Obviously, any of the above could happen, but I'm willing to reserve judgement for the moment and have faith in Paxson's track record.

by CookDing on Jul 6, 2007 2:52 PM CDT   0 recs

27-32 years old
Paxson paid for the five years of Noc's prime.  I try to appreciate Noc objectively.  I have not great love for his intangibles, etc.  In fact those qualities use turn me off, see my comments on Noah.  I just don't see what alternative Paxson had.    

by Scotter on Jul 6, 2007 2:59 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

A rebuttial
B) Varaejo is Mike Brown's Duhon. Losing him might actually make them better.
C) Now we become the Suns of the East, just enough talent to reach the confernce fianls, but we cant add the missing pieces cause we would be in Luxary Tax land.
D) in the 2006 playoffs we was being "guarded" by Antoine Walker most of the time and any NBA player could do that against 'Toine.
E) Planter Fascitis is a nagging injury that only subsides with rest. Once he starts playing again it could come back

by LD9 on Jul 6, 2007 3:10 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Varejo
still got too much time. Atleast Brown came to his senses with Snow during the playoffs.

by LD9 on Jul 6, 2007 4:09 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

What?
"Planter Fascitis is a nagging injury that only subsides with rest."

rest.. hmmm?  Like a whole Summer off??

The red and white

by Scott 9 on Jul 6, 2007 3:56 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

The injury can come back
Albert Pujols has had it his whole career.

by LD9 on Jul 6, 2007 4:05 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

And Tim Duncan had it 2 seasons ago
but didn't seem to have any problems this past one.  I suppose we'll all find out shortly whether Noc is in for chronic problems.
"They had me do a psychology test and I asked Coach Skiles if that affected his coaching. He laughed and said, `No way.'" (Joakim Noah)

by wjb1492 on Jul 6, 2007 7:28 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

His career isn't over..
and name is consistently mentioned with NL MVP, he is all star every year and led his team to a championship last year.  If he has the injury still  it doesn't seem to be effecting his production on the field.
"If you're not going to compete, then I'll dominate you." MJ

by Rankdog on Jul 6, 2007 7:51 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

2 different sports
Pujols is payed to hit a ball out of the park. If he gets on base he can jog. In basketball Noc is going to have to consistantly run the court. If this turns into a consistent injury its going to hamper his performance because he wont be at a speed level to compete.

by LD9 on Jul 6, 2007 9:14 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Thats possible
and I am no doctor.  I am just correcting the fact you made it sound like Pujols career is over when he is in fact one of the best players in MLB playing at the peak of career.
"If you're not going to compete, then I'll dominate you." MJ

by Rankdog on Jul 9, 2007 10:43 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

a re, er, rebuttal
Veraejo would at the very least diminish the Cavs size up front.  But, unlike Z (broken down body) or Gooden (broken down desire), Veraejo could actually be counted on to provide effort.

We still have room to develop our significant players where many of the Suns key players have hit their ceiling

Noce also put up great numbers the month before the playoffs, suggesting that it wasn't just walker's "defense" that contributed to his 20-10 performance (which is good in the playoffs no matter who guards you).

I've had Fascitis and, yes, it can return.  That's why I said all bets are off if his body breaks down.  Of course, in the majority of cases, the ailment subsides permanently.  

by CookDing on Jul 6, 2007 4:15 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

hey turd :)
he said the 'juice' was in effect before the playoffs, so no playoff juice.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 6, 2007 4:18 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I guess
it's not like magic juice of any sort comes with instructions. Gosh I hate this move. Paying too much for mediocre players is the calling card of so many bad GMs. I hate that Paxson put himself in that position without a real offer from any other teams.

by hscs on Jul 6, 2007 4:57 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

if you want him to put up 'great numbers'
that means you want him to play a lot. Does everybody really want that? I was hoping for somebody better when Pax was talking about getting 'a guy who can score in the post blah blah blah'.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 6, 2007 4:17 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

listen
I'm all for a PF/C that we dump the ball to and count on for a bunch for a bunch of easy buckets.  I'd have no problem with that.  I'd certainly take one over Nocioni.  And if holding off on signing him would result in acquiring this PF/C, then sign me up.
Of course, the problem is, who is the PF/C that can Defend and Shoot?  I see a very short list of candidates all of which either:
a) have a monstrosous contract that would both inhibit our ability to resign players and require us to trade away 3-4 key players just to match contracts.
b) are young and on small contracts, meaning that teams would be idiotic to trade them.
What would not signing Noce do to achieve that end?  We ARE going to be over the cap next year, that's not even in question.  Hell, we're gonna be over the cap for 3-5 years, by which time the window for a win-now approach would have passed.  
If you are going to be over the cap for the foreseeable future and you know you are going to resign Deng and Gordon regardless, how much damage are we really doing?  The only valid argument I see is that this could cut into Tyrus's playing time.  I understand that.  However, I am not willing to assume it simply becuase his minutes were limited as a rookie or because Duhon plays too many minutes.  
Everybody here can agree that Noce has some value, right?  Certainly not 38 Million dollars worth, but he has some.  Are we going to get a player like him in Free Agency over the next three years?  So, maybe it's helpful to think of it as a the opportunity to add a free-agent-like signing without cap room.  
I agree, we've overpaid.  But what are our options?  It's kind of like Stephen A ripping us for not drafting a low-post scorer when there were not any true options available.  

by CookDing on Jul 6, 2007 6:28 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

The Suns of the East?
The Suns of the East go to the Finals for the next 3 or 4 years, mark it down.  We are going to own the Eastern Conference.  Who knows if we will beat the West, but going to the finals isn't a bad thing.  Nocioni is a useful player, and with PJ gone, Tyrus is going to get us a lot of cheap buckets.

by PGHcager on Jul 6, 2007 4:21 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Overpaid?
Are you saying he did or did not overpay?  I think it looks like a fair contract.  It allows the Bulls to resign all of their own free agents while staying under the luxury tax.  It is slightly above what the mid-level will be throughout the contract, which is where Nocioni should be.  It is an average salary for a contributing vet.

We weren't going to get the scoring PF this offseason unless it is through a huge trade.  Would we get one for '09, '10, '11?  Hard to say, but it's better to take what we know than rely on speculation about what will happen after '08.  Pax likes certainty.

No question that the rebounding will be there with Wallace, Tyrus, Noah, Deng and Nocioni.  The shot blocking and interior defense should be there with that group.  Interior scoring is not where this team gets its points.  

by nateroth on Jul 6, 2007 3:25 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I know we can't put the contract aside,
but there seems to be a lot of comments about Noc's ability, with many references to him being merely average.  I ask - - is that the case?  While I know he played pro ball in Spain prior to coming here, he's only been in the league 3 years and I tend to think that he's showed a lot of improvement. One has got to try to think about him ex-foot injury and remember that even with it, he averaged 14 pts and 6 bds last year in 26 min. He shot 47% and was 85% from the line. He had an enormous Heat series in '05 and has showed the potential to have truly breakout games. I looked at what he did last year, in the first half of December, prior to the injury coming on and he scored: 31, 24, 20, 14, 17, 17, 19, 20, 12 and 24. It's interesting to me that many have just place a ceiling on him already at the age of 27.  I don't see it, especially considering that, when uninjured, he busts his ass like Deng, Gordon and Hinrich do. I'll tell you, I would also absolutely hate to play against this guy.

by EdNealy on Jul 6, 2007 2:54 PM CDT   0 recs

I just think they like Noch.
I think this is a good thing. You guys are freaks.
The truth is there will be no trades, these are your Chicago Bulls.

by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on Jul 6, 2007 3:05 PM CDT   0 recs

and....
the award for the least-thought provoking comment of the entire thread goes to... surprise surprise.. Joe Joe

by fundamentallysound on Jul 6, 2007 3:19 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I think
you think too much
The truth is there will be no trades, these are your Chicago Bulls.

by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on Jul 6, 2007 3:27 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I'm a Optimist So...

I believe we will be better than last year.  The reason is growth, everybody seems to be discounting the growth of all our players.  

The only true vet that we have is Big Ben.  Everyone else, thats play any significant time, is still 5 years and under.  U tryin to tell me that they will all stay at the same level they r now.  I hope not.  Hinrich, Gordon, and Deng alone with the same type of improvement that they've made every other summer add about 10 points combined easy.

Everybody's wondering about us gettin a scoring big man.  Well, tell me who realistically would that be?  There are definitely no answers in FA, and since we only have MLE and Vet's exception that wasn't gonna work, and if we trade for someone, of any substance, that means we would have to give up someone good. Not just Noc and some filler.  

Before everyone chalks this up as regressing, let's see if TT worked on makin his J consistent and maybe developing a nice baby hook.  Let's see if Noah and get some points off put backs and easy set ups.  Let's see Noc spread squads out bombing from 3.  
I just got good vibes for what's gonna happen this season.

by Ceasaleo on Jul 6, 2007 3:06 PM CDT   0 recs

and there's no power forward
out on the market that can get you a double team. There is nothing to trade without gutting. Thats just the way it is so I think this was a decent move by Paxson. I think a healthy Nocioni is a powerful weapon to have. The improvement will have to rest on Noah, Tyrus developing some post game. I think they can.
The truth is there will be no trades, these are your Chicago Bulls.

by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on Jul 6, 2007 3:10 PM CDT   0 recs

Don't forget
Nocioni shot a totally reasonable .383 from three point territory last season, .391 the year before.

Maybe Pax likes a three headed PF monster of PJ, Noce and TT.

Maybe we'll have to wait until Feb. for the magical post scoring PF to appear.

by thug life on Jul 6, 2007 3:17 PM CDT   0 recs

This has
given me a headache. I like Noch but I don't want him taking playing time away from TT. If I had the choice of watching either of those two play it's not even close...TT wins.

by sue369 on Jul 6, 2007 3:19 PM CDT   0 recs

I like watching TT
play too, but both of them help us win.

by EdNealy on Jul 6, 2007 3:58 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

That's one (flawed) measure.
Popular PER ratings say that Nocioni is a more efficient, productive player than Tyrus. In fact, Nocioni had the fourth highest PER on the team behind the Core.

Point being that there is also statistical evidence that Noce is valuable.

I like Tyrus. I hope he starts next year.

by 1958ChiTown on Jul 6, 2007 4:26 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Noc's more efficient and productive on offense
sure they're both flawed, but I think +/- is more telling as a 'what helps the team' stat amongst teammates.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 6, 2007 4:30 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I doubt a big trade would happen, but...
wouldn't this signing be necessary if one was to happen.  If the reports are correct, and the Wolves' wanted the #3, #11 and Marvin Williams from the Hawks, or Biedrins, Ellis, Harrington and Brandan Wright from the Warriors, it sounds like they are pretty much looking for a starting line-up in exchange for Garnett.  Pax said the Grizzlies were looking for the same at the trading deadline (on the Score, he said, "It was not only Deng, but a whole lot more").  Nocioni makes the 8th legit rotation player on the Bulls' roster (Hinrich, Gordon, Deng, Wallace, Tyrus, Thabo, Noah).  I don't see how the Bulls could let Noc walk (unfortunately, 5 years was probably necessary to make this happen), then pull off a 3 for 1 trade, and then still have enough pieces to go along with the "star" to be better than they were last year.

by MMP on Jul 6, 2007 3:21 PM CDT   0 recs

Absolutely
The only issue is salaries in making a trade work, but you can't lose Nocioni for nothing and then trade two of Gordon, Hinrich, Deng, and Tyrus, plus Noah, for Garnett or Kobe.  Too little left.

by nateroth on Jul 6, 2007 3:28 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I dunno
it's an issue that now the Bulls have no contracts to deal with two rookie-contract guys for those 'star' players.

But if they can't deal him now then it also likely means a sign/trade with him wasn't going to do it either. It sounds like the Grizzlies were willing to do a 5-year contract too, so why would Noc agree to a sign/trade for fewer guaranteed years.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 6, 2007 3:35 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

maybe Pax
is anticipating a panic at the trade deadline for the Lakers and/or Wolves.  Noce can be traded at that point and certainly would help in a salary match.  Of course, there's the question of whether a team wants to commit to 5-years of his 'Argentinian-flair'.  

by CookDing on Jul 6, 2007 6:32 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

so does this mean
that Noah won't be getting any minutes at the PF slot?  He can play both the PF and C slots, but it seems that with the minutes being divied up between TT, Noce, and whomever we sign with the MLE and/or VE, that Noah will only being seeing the floor when Big Ben's back is sore or he just needs a breather.

I also don't get why Pax set the market price himself.  If the Grizzlies were the only team bidding with us for Noce's services, then I think it would have been wiser to let them overpay him or call their bluff and wait things out.  They had the option to match any offer, why over a 5 year deal to someone who isn't in the plans to be a starter down the line?  Why not offer Noce something like 14 or 15 mil for 2 years?  I just don't see this being the right decision for the continued improvement of the team.  Noce has a role and he can fill it up occasionally, but I think that is more a referendum on the quality of the team's offense, rather than on his worth or talent.  The Bulls have struggled to score a lot in the past, and Noce has been able to fill that void some nights, but I just don't think he's a long term solution.

by fundamentallysound on Jul 6, 2007 3:30 PM CDT   0 recs

can't hurt
if it's a 1-year contract, of course :)

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 6, 2007 3:38 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Can hurt if Skiles insists
on playing his veteran toys.

by Scotter on Jul 6, 2007 3:44 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs