38 Million? Damn (UPDATED)
[UPDATE(7/6): Today's trib reports that the Grizzlies aren't willing to get into a bidding war for Nocioni. And that Pax is going against his usual philosophy regarding restricted Free Agents (letting other teams set the market) because of Noc's "value". gag.]
[From the Diaries. I hope this is some ploy by Paxson to get Memphis involved (I'll choose to wistfully ignore this), I really don't see the rush in re-signing Noc, and the more I think about it the less I want him re-signed at all. The problem with signing Noc to a 5-year contract is that he's then untradeable, and it's quite a commitment to the 3rd string PF (lets just assume we get a scoring big man, for kicks, and Noc is behind that guy and Tyrus) and non-Deng SF duty. -Matt]
The Bulls offer Nocioni 38 millionish to resign with the Bulls?
Wow I don't think the Gasol trade is going down because it doesn't sound like the Grizz are trading him. Seems like alot of cash for th Redbull but I would love to see him back. So now it's a waiting game to see if the Grizz match.
FanPosts are user-created posts from the BlogABull community, and are to be treated as the opinions and views of that particular user, not that of the blogger or blog community as a whole.
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It doesn't
by sue369 on
Jul 4, 2007 11:35 PM CDT
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Is Pax Bluffing?
Pax keeps saying that he'll match any offer, but if the Grizzlies are really dying to have Chapu, then Pax is telling them that they're going to have to trade. I found this paragraph interesting:
I guess it all depends on how big the Grizzlies' hard-on for Nocioni actually is. I'm guessing, based on what they've said, that it's not big enough to let Pau go.
by corey williams corey benjamin on
Jul 4, 2007 11:57 PM CDT
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They aren't trading Gasol.
by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on
Jul 5, 2007 12:21 AM CDT
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I'm not sure why
by cubbybear on
Jul 5, 2007 1:53 AM CDT
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It's not my money
by Big D on
Jul 5, 2007 2:37 AM CDT
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He is underrated
by roach on
Jul 5, 2007 5:47 AM CDT
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This means
Looks like another solid move by Paxson. He made it difficult for Memphis to match and if they really want him, they will have to move Gasol for him.
Kapono set the market with 6 mil a year. Walton only took 5 mil but over 6 years. Noce at 7 mil; why not. It is all monopoly money anyway.
by Jesse07 on
Jul 5, 2007 8:07 AM CDT
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When u put it like that...
by Ceasaleo on
Jul 5, 2007 8:47 AM CDT
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Good perspective
by Jobu on
Jul 5, 2007 9:44 AM CDT
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Noc is better than those guys
I think that a $6-7m 5 year deal for Noc is more than fair in a vaccuum. But this Bulls team has enough average-to-above-average players. They need to get a better player than Nocioni at the 4, then should have Tyrus (who'll be underpaid for a few more years) take Noc's position as the backup.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
Jul 5, 2007 9:59 AM CDT
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It depends
by bullshooter on
Jul 5, 2007 10:05 AM CDT
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if Noc is your starting PF
How does getting Pau slow the game down? It's not like running teams don't post up players too. And the Suns wanted KG so apparently they aren't worried about him fitting in their style.
I'm worried that Pax doesn't want an up-tempo team, but he wants his 'hustle' team. I though that was all rhetoric but drafting Noah AND signing Noc is too much to ignore.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
Jul 5, 2007 10:26 AM CDT
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and it is not like Paul didn't play in a slow
by SRQman on
Jul 5, 2007 4:22 PM CDT
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Memphis
Pax made a great move. Guys that contribute way less than Noc make much more. (Adonal Foyle, Erick Dampier, Sam Dalembert, Troy Murphy, Larry Hughes, Theo Ratliff, Rasho Nesterovic sp?) Pax knows Noc was going to draw some attention anyway, so he provided an offer which most teams can't exceed by too much. It's not Noc's fault he is free agent in a year when teams have no cap room to make an outragous offer. (see names above for some examples) Pax gave himself a great amount of flexibility for the extensions, or to absorb a slightly larger contract via trade. Winning teams need to exceed the luxury threshold to remain a winner.
by kingj41 on
Jul 5, 2007 8:42 AM CDT
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Bad Contracts
by corey williams corey benjamin on
Jul 5, 2007 10:24 AM CDT
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Your argument is not ignored
Plus, salaries escalate yearly for all pro sports. I won't go into too many details, but if you look at a guy that signed 2 years ago and now he's making 10 mil, compared with Noc signing a deal starting at 6 mil, Noc is a steal for what he gives the team.
Your 2nd contract in the NBA is going to exceed the MLE for players who contribute consistently. It's the sad state of the league becaue so many players are not worth what they make, but their 'value' is determined by comparing what others are making.
by kingj41 on
Jul 5, 2007 10:35 AM CDT
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Hakim Warrick
by LD9 on
Jul 5, 2007 9:11 AM CDT
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they'd be cheaper, anyway
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
Jul 5, 2007 9:21 AM CDT
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Why not (tongue in cheek)
by kingj41 on
Jul 5, 2007 9:35 AM CDT
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oh, rasberries
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
Jul 5, 2007 9:15 AM CDT
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mmmmmm
However, we can garner one thing from this; it appears in all likleyhood that either gordon or noch will not remain a bull in the long run; there's just not enough money for all of them
by milesgmsu on
Jul 5, 2007 9:24 AM CDT
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There's enough money
Look to 08-09, when the luxury tax should be at $70 milllion or more:
Wallace: $14.5
Hinrich: $10.0
Tyrus: $3.8
Thabo: $1.8
Noah: $3.0 or so.
That's $33.1 million for contracts that will be in place.
Let's say we add $10 million for Gordon, $11 million for Deng and $7.5 million for Nocioni. That would put us at $61.6 million. We would have an additional $10 million or so for future draft picks and other roster filler or mid-level free agents while keeping the team intact. When Wallace's contract comes off the books it will be right when Tyrus and Thabo will be looking for extensions.
by nateroth on
Jul 5, 2007 10:16 AM CDT
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and....
Yes they can sign everybody and be fine financially. But just keeping this same team and adding Noah, that does it for you?
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
Jul 5, 2007 10:28 AM CDT
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Some improvement
We are not going to be in a position to sign any big free agents anyway, so why not keep our own? Deng and Gordon should continue to improve over the next few years. If we let Nocioni go, who would we get to replace him at $7.5 million per year? Plus, keeping Nocioni gives us depth in case Noah or Tyrus are involved in one of those blockbuster-type trades.
by nateroth on
Jul 5, 2007 10:50 AM CDT
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someone who is worth $7.5 million
by hscs on
Jul 5, 2007 10:54 AM CDT
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Meh
by Petor on
Jul 5, 2007 11:03 AM CDT
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well yeah
Wallace is similarly untradeable, Pax doesn't want to deal Hinrich/Deng/(likely)Gordon. That leaves Tyrus, Thabo, and Noah, who are all under rookie deals for quite a while. It's not a very flexible roster situation.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
Jul 5, 2007 11:06 AM CDT
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We give you
The current competition for the front office motto-
a)Dump your unwanted long-term contracts on us.
b)Let's make a deal. We don't care if we get the short end.
c)Ballhoggers wanted!
d)We like drafting late in the 1st rd, then trading those cheap contracts for nothing.
e)We like burying our best players on the bench. (Wait, who's our best player? That guy that passes, moves without the ball, rebounds and hustles?)
f)Luxury tax? We thought that read luxury cap...
by kingj41 on
Jul 5, 2007 11:22 AM CDT
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It really depends on whether
by EdNealy on
Jul 5, 2007 11:05 AM CDT
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my philosophy is
I'm kindof beyond remembering the 0-9 days. Nocioni was quality for that kind of team but the Bulls need somebody better than him. I don't see a situation where they pay somebody better than him AND him.
If the goal is just to maintain the status quo and keep waiting for a big deal, isn't it just as good of an option to let Noc go, sign a short-term vet free agent and give Tyrus more minutes?
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
Jul 5, 2007 11:11 AM CDT
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Nocion and Tyrus
by Sambossanova on
Jul 5, 2007 11:47 AM CDT
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This means
by Option27 on
Jul 5, 2007 12:21 PM CDT
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don't let logic
by hscs on
Jul 5, 2007 12:25 PM CDT
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I think the problem is
Status quo for right now seems like the best idea. One we know that Bulls are a team with a ton of assests. So why not see if improvement can come from within. They got their ass kicking from the Pistons why not give them one more season to really gage where this team is and what offers would be best without gutting the team. I think next season is a big season for the Bulls and I think I would love to see what this team can do with everyone healthy and with one more year of playoff seasoning. If they go out early again then I think you seriously consider a blockbuster trade next summer.
by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on
Jul 5, 2007 11:47 AM CDT
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Yes but
What if we have to include Tyrus in a blockbuster trade for Kobe or KG? In that case the depth that Noc provides as sixth or seventh man will come in handy.
There is something to be said for letting good players go in exchange for average players and roster flexibility, but I don't know if Pax is ready to do that yet. I think he still wants to either: (i) see where this team will go; or (ii) have as many good players as possible in case he can get a great player.
by nateroth on
Jul 5, 2007 12:07 PM CDT
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I see what you're saying
I know it's a good idea to stockpile assets like Pax has done. But my fear is that if Nocioni's signed to a 5 year contract he's no longer an asset.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
Jul 5, 2007 12:46 PM CDT
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Agree that
If the strategy is to wait for someone better to come along than, "yes", just save the money and let him go. But who is that? I know that that person could come out of nowhere via trade, but if you just go by what we see today then things get challenging. Looking forward, it's hard to imagine that any of the team option '08 free agents will get away or that player option '08's will be affordable regardless (Brand, O'Neal, Duncan).
A big question is, is a 5 year avg. $7.5/yr deal (provided that's where it sticks) really that absurd in relation to what the market is setting today? And could you still move him? I hate when questionable players (Kapono, Walton) set the market, but this doen't appear to be a Dalembert situation (who set the market and absolutely killed us with Chandler!).
I tend to be a fan of the pre-Plantar Fasciitis Nocioni, who was huge last post-season and was really starting to come on early in the season (in December avg'd 17 & 6 )right before the injury hit.
by EdNealy on
Jul 5, 2007 12:13 PM CDT
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even healthy-footed Noc
So by giving Tyrus his minutes you actually could improve, not just keep the status quo.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
Jul 5, 2007 12:43 PM CDT
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Too difficult to compare
by EdNealy on
Jul 5, 2007 1:22 PM CDT
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Noc turns over the ball and fouls too
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
Jul 5, 2007 1:33 PM CDT
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Thomas vs Noc
Hopefully Thomas will get more playing time, simply because he will take mins that went to Brown last year (could start at PF) and there will be no more 3 guad lineups, meaning Noc plays more SF.
I think Bulls would be better if they stuck to 10 core guys. If the 11th guy on team is playing role outside of practice you probably aren't contenting anyway
Wallace/Noah/Brown or other 7fter
Thomas/Noc/Noah
Deng/Noc/Thabo/Thomas
Gordon/Thabo
Kirk/Duhon/Thabo
by NY Chicago Fan on
Jul 5, 2007 1:26 PM CDT
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Scola !
by Diabolo on
Jul 6, 2007 5:34 AM CDT
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Not sure where to put this but the
by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on
Jul 5, 2007 11:56 AM CDT
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justin cage
by Sambossanova on
Jul 5, 2007 12:11 PM CDT
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haha this is all I could get on him
by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on
Jul 5, 2007 1:06 PM CDT
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you don't remember the tourney?
he killed oden that game. 25 points on 8 for 8 shooting, including 3-3 from 3.
that's all i know about him though.
by smegmatic on
Jul 5, 2007 4:57 PM CDT
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If I had to guess, I would say that Paxson is
(1) This year, he will rely on internal development to take the team to next echelon. He wants to give this squad one last year to ripen;
(2) If this team proves incapable of reaching the elite tier of NBA teams, he will trade Gordon and some combination of Tyrus and Noah for a low post scorer. In that scenario, Noce would be another perimeter scoring threat who could partially offset the loss of Gordon's perimeter scoring. Moroever, Noce would provide spacing that would prevent teams from just collapsing on the new low post player.
Just my pure speculation.
by 1958ChiTown on
Jul 5, 2007 12:31 PM CDT
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ah yes, spacing
by hscs on
Jul 5, 2007 12:36 PM CDT
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I don't think that's fair
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
Jul 5, 2007 12:40 PM CDT
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spacing
by hscs on
Jul 5, 2007 1:17 PM CDT
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C'mon now.
by tyger1147 on
Jul 5, 2007 1:18 PM CDT
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Wait.
by paxson43 on
Jul 5, 2007 1:30 PM CDT
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whatever happened to Paxson Jackson?
by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on
Jul 5, 2007 1:45 PM CDT
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thats very lame
by NY Chicago Fan on
Jul 6, 2007 12:01 PM CDT
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I recognize you wish it to be.
I think it's ironic how you wish HSCS to be ironic, but based on your BlogABull personality, it really isn't.
It's quite a har-har.
by tyger1147 on
Jul 5, 2007 5:43 PM CDT
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which is quite different
by hscs on
Jul 5, 2007 11:48 PM CDT
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I am going to have to say that Skiles likely
It seems misguided to trust Paxson and Skiles on a multitude of other issues, but doubt their decisions pertaining to Nocioni.
In any case, I was just guessing as to Paxson's ultimate motivations here.
by 1958ChiTown on
Jul 5, 2007 12:41 PM CDT
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Fantastic point..
IMHO, I think that should apply to this situation as well (if that is how someone feels).
With this offer to Noc, I too see a lot of options for this Bulls team.
by Scott 9 on
Jul 5, 2007 12:44 PM CDT
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No one is suggesting that you
What I am suggesting is that, if Paxson and Skiles are willing to spend $38 MM on Nocioni, there is likely an underlying basketball related reason for doing so. In other words, I highly doubt that Paxson is giving Nocioni an offer merely to indulge some sort of personal affection. He obviously feels that Nocioni helps the team in some appreciable manner.
Now, of course, you are free to disagree with Skiles and Paxson and to dispute the basketball related reason for retaining Nocioni, but in order to do so effectively, you would have to (a) clearly identify the purported basketball related reason for the offer; and then (b) adduce some argument more compelling than a failed attempt at pithiness which amounted to "Na na na boo boo, Skiles is a dummy."
by 1958ChiTown on
Jul 5, 2007 2:44 PM CDT
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no crap
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
Jul 5, 2007 2:56 PM CDT
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You're right.
Anyway, you are right, this territory has been covered and I don't want to turn this thread into another Nocioni Apocalypse.
I was really just trying to figure out what Paxson might be thinking. I thought this might be another sign of an imminent Tyrus trade. That's all.
by 1958ChiTown on
Jul 5, 2007 3:03 PM CDT
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Why don't you ask
by bullshooter on
Jul 5, 2007 3:04 PM CDT
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I don't think they'll know much about Paxson's
BTW, just keep in mind that you asked me who my sources were. I gave you an honest answer. I certainly didn't bring it up on my own. If you choose not to believe me, so be it. No skin off my nose.
by 1958ChiTown on
Jul 5, 2007 3:09 PM CDT
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I don't want to get into this again
Just by looking at how long Skiles kept Noc in even playing with one foot suggests there's an unhealthy bond there.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
Jul 5, 2007 1:34 PM CDT
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That fact remains
I really think there is a nice plan in place. I'm one of those dudes who think Pax can't make mistakes too. I know I'm biased. But has he really let anyone down?
He has earned his stripes. Right now, if he thinks Nos is worth that much, I have to believe him.
by Option27 on
Jul 5, 2007 2:04 PM CDT
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Instead of judging against other FA overpayments
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
Jul 5, 2007 1:13 PM CDT
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rate-based production, of course.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
Jul 5, 2007 1:14 PM CDT
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Come on!
by EdNealy on
Jul 5, 2007 1:24 PM CDT
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::groan::
On a championship team (like the one that just won the championship), guys like Nocioni play 11 minutes a game like Matt Bonner did, which is why his pts/rebs per game are so low.
Bonner shoots nearly as well, rebounds better, and commits fewer TOs than Nocioni. Nocioni's better as a creating shots for himself, but the Bulls shouldn't want him to do that too much anyway (although I always appreciated it when Gordon was on the bench and they needed him to).
I'm not saying the Bulls are better off with Bonner, I was using him as an example of how much you can pay these types of players if you're smart.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
Jul 5, 2007 1:30 PM CDT
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I didn't miss the rate-based...
The contract info is useful as I tend to see it as justification for a solid Nocioni salary. That said, we obviously differ in the value of his skill-set. No harm.
by EdNealy on
Jul 5, 2007 1:38 PM CDT
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damn skippy
by hscs on
Jul 5, 2007 1:51 PM CDT
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point taken
I'm guessing Pax looks at Noc as insurance and flexibility off the bench.
by NY Chicago Fan on
Jul 5, 2007 1:49 PM CDT
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And I heard Chris Wallace..
Matt.. You run a great site. But your views on Nocioni are just not on point.
by Scott 9 on
Jul 5, 2007 11:09 PM CDT
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now we all have to judge value
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
Jul 6, 2007 9:06 AM CDT
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agreed Spurs are smart
I think Pax is smart to not overpay for other teams players or trades and bide his time. Salary cap will continue to rise and in 2 years if Bulls don't get to finals or have a great move come to them then they can try and go after James / Wade or blow up team some other way. Just because Deng/Gordon/Hinrich are untradeable now doesn't mean case is same in 2 yrs
Lets face it the Bulls goal is to win games and contend for title, which with current roster they should. They remain the deepest, most talented, youngest roster in Eastern Conf, and us fans shouldn't forget that. Only 1 team can win finals and it seems that Pax is not going to risk a team that should be in playoffs for foreseeable future
by NY Chicago Fan on
Jul 5, 2007 1:36 PM CDT
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Apples and Oranges
Even so, I think Noc is a goner. Pax's offer is nothing more than due-diligence. Memphis is offering more than just money, they are giving him a chance to play the 3, something that isn't going to happen in Chicago. The best we can hope for is a sign and trade to get something of value in return.
by rednomore on
Jul 5, 2007 1:35 PM CDT
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What about Rudy Gay?
by cubbybear on
Jul 5, 2007 6:16 PM CDT
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This deal
by bullshooter on
Jul 5, 2007 1:54 PM CDT
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it's the years
This is why nobody here wants Nazr Mohammed or Joel Przybilla. They're making 5 million or so, but it's for 4 more seasons. Same with the loads of crap the TWolves have.
I'd say GMs are more willing to take bigger, shorter term contracts. It was likely easier for the Knicks to move Steve Francis than Jerome James.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
Jul 5, 2007 1:58 PM CDT
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Nobody wants them
by bullshooter on
Jul 5, 2007 2:06 PM CDT
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Agree!
Most times when u get those type of "poison" contracts, it's becuz some dumb GM has seen the guy play spot minutes somewhere else and projects the guy to being a nice player in their scheme once given the extra minutes. Truthfully, u can look at any sport and see that.
Noc is a known product. And if he keeps getting better or even stays the same, I can't see someone not wanting to take him and his contract, especially if it's a part of a bigger deal.
by Ceasaleo on
Jul 5, 2007 3:17 PM CDT
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I'd just say that rednomore
by EdNealy on
Jul 5, 2007 1:58 PM CDT
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What about Rudy Gay?
by jamestkirk on
Jul 5, 2007 4:30 PM CDT
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If you don't want Noce back . . .
by Big D on
Jul 5, 2007 2:41 PM CDT
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bring in tyrus thomas
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
Jul 5, 2007 2:54 PM CDT
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Argentinian Newspaper
http://www.ole.com.ar/notas/2007/07/05/01451057.html
If I'm not mistaken that's like the deal Hinrich got and definitely not worth matching to keep him around. Now I don't know how the sign-and-trade would work but I imagine it's going to be a game of chicken between Pax and the Griz. Is Pax really going to match and keep Nocioni or are the Grizzlies going to concede and admit that they should trade Gasol now.
by CubFan81 on
Jul 5, 2007 2:52 PM CDT
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46 Mil?
by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on
Jul 5, 2007 2:58 PM CDT
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Well have fun in Tennesee
by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on
Jul 5, 2007 3:03 PM CDT
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We can't let this crazy ass Argentinian
by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on
Jul 5, 2007 3:07 PM CDT
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i think we can all
by ScottieCartwright on
Jul 5, 2007 3:11 PM CDT
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I thought they didn't have the cap room
by bullshooter on
Jul 5, 2007 3:01 PM CDT
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Aren't they also reportedly
by kingj41 on
Jul 5, 2007 3:04 PM CDT
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Your getting alittle.............
by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on
Jul 5, 2007 3:08 PM CDT
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Just seems strange
*Noc ~ 7.5 Mil
*Varejao ~ 7.5 Mil
Miller ~ 8 Mil
Cardinal ~ 6 Mil
Swift ~ 6 Mil
Stoudamire ~ 4.5 Mil
All for a losing team? The Bulls $$$ situation isn't that bad. Seems like Memphis would have to do some dealing to make sense of the extra spending.
by kingj41 on
Jul 5, 2007 3:29 PM CDT
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They've had one non-playoff year
by bullshooter on
Jul 5, 2007 3:30 PM CDT
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I question their sanity anyway
Perhaps they really think Noc will help them run phoenix-style with Iavoroni as the coach.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
Jul 5, 2007 3:09 PM CDT
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or Wallace is buddies with Noce's agent
by hscs on
Jul 5, 2007 3:12 PM CDT
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Noc fits perfectly in that offense
by bullshooter on
Jul 5, 2007 3:14 PM CDT
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Oof.
by Petor on
Jul 5, 2007 3:28 PM CDT
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it's a pretty interesting article
by hscs on
Jul 5, 2007 4:17 PM CDT
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sign and trade
by LD9 on
Jul 5, 2007 3:01 PM CDT
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I'd settle
by bullshooter on
Jul 5, 2007 3:06 PM CDT
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Why would they do that?
by Big D on
Jul 5, 2007 3:09 PM CDT
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maybe they do, maybe they don't
by bullshooter on
Jul 5, 2007 3:11 PM CDT
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Get that man
by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on
Jul 5, 2007 3:17 PM CDT
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Memphis's offer is not being reported
by chgobr on
Jul 5, 2007 4:04 PM CDT
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If they want to sign Varejo also
by LD9 on
Jul 5, 2007 3:56 PM CDT
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Not to steal joejoe's thunder
by bullshooter on
Jul 5, 2007 3:59 PM CDT
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Holy Shit!
by tyger1147 on
Jul 5, 2007 5:57 PM CDT
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thoughts
1A. The article even says that the Bulls offerded 40M, so that would, pattern wise, rbing the grizz down to 44
- If noch want's anything above 8M a year, he's played his last game. He's a great player, but to put a seventh of your salary cap into a palyer like that, especially with questions on his injury, its not worth it
- There's no reason the grizz shouldn't, theoretically, do a sign and trade. The Bulls would ahve to give them something, but a first rounder or a 2nd rounder in the future would be fantastic
- If the grizz sign varejao and noch, they don't win 25 games next year w or w/out pau
- Please noch, stay home. We love you here. We chant your name without provocation
by milesgmsu on
Jul 5, 2007 4:29 PM CDT
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let's remember Ole has
by hscs on
Jul 5, 2007 4:35 PM CDT
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It has been over an hour since the post
by chgobr on
Jul 5, 2007 5:16 PM CDT
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I read the article
by Goostafer on
Jul 5, 2007 5:37 PM CDT
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Miles
by bullshooter on
Jul 6, 2007 9:13 AM CDT
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KC Johnson
by sue369 on
Jul 5, 2007 5:54 PM CDT
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that's depressing news
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
Jul 6, 2007 9:29 AM CDT
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why is that bad news
by bullshooter on
Jul 6, 2007 9:47 AM CDT
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I'm assuming
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
Jul 6, 2007 9:53 AM CDT
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sign and trade
by bullshooter on
Jul 6, 2007 10:10 AM CDT
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I say just
by goldengod on
Jul 5, 2007 9:25 PM CDT
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yeah they should totally do whatever it takes!
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
Jul 6, 2007 9:14 AM CDT
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Memphis has a new GM and a new coach,
by Scotter on
Jul 5, 2007 6:06 PM CDT
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The only thing the source said
by OldeBull on
Jul 5, 2007 7:47 PM CDT
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good point
I still shudder at a 5 year contract though.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
Jul 6, 2007 9:16 AM CDT
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38 million is fair money for Noc
by vlad001 on
Jul 5, 2007 8:05 PM CDT
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Except for Jerome James
by cubbybear on
Jul 5, 2007 9:07 PM CDT
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As long
by eross226 on
Jul 5, 2007 8:24 PM CDT
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Sounds like Memphis isn't that serious
Barring an unforeseen change of philosophy, league sources said the Grizzlies, who have made an oral offer not much better than the Bulls' written offer, wouldn't increase their pursuit of Nocioni.
While nothing is official until Nocioni signs, all signs point to Nocioni accepting Bulls general manager John Paxson's five-year deal worth near $38 million, perhaps within days.
When Paxson took the rare move of proactively offering a restricted free agent that deal, which runs counter to Chairman Jerry Reinsdorf's philosophy of not setting the market, it merely backed up his season-long stance that Nocioni is valuable and needs to be re-signed.
Even if the Grizzlies reached a $46 million offer that was reported erroneously in the Argentine media, the Bulls would have seven days to match because they still own his rights.
A $46 million offer might give Paxson pause. As of late Thursday, however, all indications were that the Grizzlies, who also are considering Cavaliers' restricted free agent Anderson Varejao, were prepared to move on.
I thought that $46 million report sounded a bit ridiculous. I know there's a lot of dumb GM's in the league, but giving Nocioni $9 million a year would be pretty bad.
by Big D on
Jul 5, 2007 11:57 PM CDT
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nocioni for near 38 million
Assuming we want nocioni back, which paxson and skiles do, then near 38 million is a decent contract.
by Sambossanova on
Jul 6, 2007 12:38 AM CDT
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I look forward to Nocioni having a great year.
by chgobr on
Jul 6, 2007 7:11 AM CDT
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I'm pleasantly surprised
Like the continuity here - it's winning continuity, as opposed to Cubs continuity, which is...
by Freethefro on
Jul 6, 2007 7:41 AM CDT
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if he wins 6th man of the year
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
Jul 6, 2007 8:53 AM CDT
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I don't follow
by Freethefro on
Jul 6, 2007 9:14 AM CDT
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No, Wallace isn't on the bench.
That likely won't happen if Noc is re-signed, because he'll be making good money and is already the star camper at Skiles' club grit.
I'd hope that Tyrus' play last year would sway Skiles to play him more instead, but I'll believe it when I see it.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
Jul 6, 2007 9:21 AM CDT
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I think he meant
by ScottieCartwright on
Jul 6, 2007 9:22 AM CDT
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oh
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
Jul 6, 2007 9:30 AM CDT
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I agree that Noc shouldn't start at 4
We all would love to see Hinrich / BenG / Deng keep improving and Wallace dominate but I think to dominate EastConf Bulls need Thomas starting(and Thabo and healthy Noc off bench) to be impact players this year.
by NY Chicago Fan on
Jul 6, 2007 12:09 PM CDT
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Memphis reporting Nocioni is staying a Bull
Here is the link
http://www.commercialappeal.com/mca/grizzlies/article/0,1426,MCA_475_5617355,00.html
by chgobr on
Jul 6, 2007 7:23 AM CDT
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Terrible
by LD9 on
Jul 6, 2007 9:36 AM CDT
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Skiles loves power forwards who can shoot
by hscs on
Jul 6, 2007 9:43 AM CDT
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lose his magic?
I like Noc, but I like others believe finding playing time for him and developing youngs is a concern. Pax knows he can rebound from this decision, because in a year or so Noc can be traded and his total annual contract value can be matched in a trade. (unlike this base-year trade 1/2 exemption rule) A healthy Noc is a really good player, and has value in this league.
by exult463 on
Jul 6, 2007 10:43 AM CDT
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Important to point out
While looking at bad contracts isn't necessary the best track to take, you do have to look at what Carroll, Kapono and Walton just signed for. I'm of the opinion (knowing that others differ) that Noc is much better than all three and if the Pax contract number is correct then you're getting fair value. Unlike the guys above, Noc was developing into a mid-teens points and 6-7 rebound guy. Also, unlike the others, he has put up some huge games over the past 2 years.
When there simply is not a player available RIGHT NOW to trade for (this assumes a sign and trade even works), you can not just let Noc walk when he's getting close to a market rate.
by EdNealy on
Jul 6, 2007 11:14 AM CDT
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yeah, you can
by hscs on
Jul 6, 2007 11:20 AM CDT
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Again....
by EdNealy on
Jul 6, 2007 12:15 PM CDT
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then what is Nocioni?
by hscs on
Jul 6, 2007 12:36 PM CDT
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Nice link as it
We differ on whether 14 & 6 in 26 minutes is average or not. But if it is average, then please give me that cheap replacement you're suggesting as the contract the Pax is offering probably gets you 20 & 10, right?
Oh, Manu Ginobli is a bench player (must be an Argeninian thing). Averaged 16 points in 27 minutes a game last year. For $9MM this year escalating to $11MM in '09. I thought the Spurs were smart.
by EdNealy on
Jul 6, 2007 12:49 PM CDT
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I'm not speaking to
The 2008 free agent class has a lot more potential than the duds for sale this offseason. Pooh-pooh away, but Garnett is likely using his ETO.
by hscs on
Jul 6, 2007 1:04 PM CDT
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KG's not going to sign for a max deal
by bullshooter on
Jul 6, 2007 1:13 PM CDT
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and if Deng and BG sign extensions
by bullshooter on
Jul 6, 2007 1:14 PM CDT
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Nocioni's PER
But it is just a tool, and sometimes it will miss things you can see with the naked eye. Take Deron Williams for instance. He was rated the 11th best point guard last year. Are there really 10 point guards you'd rather have than him? If you built a team based solely on PER, you'd rather have Calderon, Ford or Atkins. Really?
Another one is Shane Battier; apparently he's the 59th best SF. What was the Olympic Committee thinking?
I would assume the Bulls' brain-trust know Nocioni's limitations full well. But I get the impression they hold him high regard because he's a decent player who brings the requisite intangibles (i.e. grit). I know Matt will hate that last sentence, but I think it's clear they like his approach to the game.
by jamestkirk on
Jul 6, 2007 2:24 PM CDT
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the problem with the little things not in PER
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
Jul 6, 2007 2:47 PM CDT
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people hate stats
by hscs on
Jul 6, 2007 2:56 PM CDT
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I don't hate stats
by jamestkirk on
Jul 6, 2007 3:14 PM CDT
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Despite his limitations,
Noc is a black hole, but he's an efficient black hole. With the highest TS% on the team up the injury. And he makes quick actions when he gets the ball. He isn't Zach Randolph stalling the offense, while he backs down his defender. He's a flop machine and terrible man defender, who chases pump fakes. But, those flops do lead to creating turnovers. They're not without merit. Is his hustle, grit, and passion worth 7.5 million. No, but his jumpshot and theatrics are.
by Scotter on
Jul 6, 2007 12:52 PM CDT
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Energy
by LD9 on
Jul 6, 2007 1:06 PM CDT
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You've got to
by EdNealy on
Jul 6, 2007 1:12 PM CDT
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which post scorer
by bullshooter on
Jul 6, 2007 1:15 PM CDT
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Flexibility
by LD9 on
Jul 6, 2007 1:31 PM CDT
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what are you talking about
by bullshooter on
Jul 6, 2007 9:13 PM CDT
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terrible defender
by Sambossanova on
Jul 6, 2007 1:07 PM CDT
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I said terrible man defender.
His help defense is terrific. That's why he contends for the league lead in charges drawn in under 30 min/g. In the end, help defense is the more important aspect of defense. Particuarly for guys playing the 4 and the 5. So yes, Nocioni is an above-average defender.
by Scotter on
Jul 6, 2007 1:59 PM CDT
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I hate that kind of help defense
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
Jul 6, 2007 2:14 PM CDT
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3 years of development
by hscs on
Jul 6, 2007 1:09 PM CDT
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Noc played in 53 games
by EdNealy on
Jul 6, 2007 1:19 PM CDT
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Enought with the feces
by EdNealy on
Jul 6, 2007 1:39 PM CDT
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no it's not
by hscs on
Jul 6, 2007 1:45 PM CDT
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Well, you're stuck
by EdNealy on
Jul 6, 2007 1:54 PM CDT
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it's safe to say
by hscs on
Jul 6, 2007 2:07 PM CDT
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Ugh. Yes, you're
by EdNealy on
Jul 6, 2007 2:11 PM CDT
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Then you trade Noc sometime in the next five years
by Scotter on
Jul 6, 2007 2:11 PM CDT
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5 year contracts are untradeable
It's only a good contract if Nocioni exceeds his cost by having a tremendous year (or two) and then that contract is a bargain and desireable again. Otherwise most teams just want contracts that end early.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
Jul 6, 2007 2:16 PM CDT
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Actually
by bullshooter on
Jul 6, 2007 9:15 PM CDT
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Now this is small-ball - - -
by chgobr on
Jul 6, 2007 9:50 AM CDT
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more like a get-me-madder
by hscs on
Jul 6, 2007 9:52 AM CDT
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He doesn't have to make it all
by Scotter on
Jul 6, 2007 12:10 PM CDT
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no
Noah
Thomas
Deng
Gordon
Hinrich
by NY Chicago Fan on
Jul 6, 2007 12:14 PM CDT
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Just don't let
by EdNealy on
Jul 6, 2007 12:16 PM CDT
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That is an exciting line-up...
2008/2009 salaries:
Wallace 14.5M
Kirk 10
Tyrus 3.8
Noc 7.5
Sefolosha 2
Griffin 1.7
Noah 3 (est)
Grey 1 (est)
Curry 1 (est)
That's $44.5M for 9 players. By then, the luxury tax should be around $70M. They should be able to sign a guy like Smith to a multi-year deal this year (or a guy like him...I know..."YAY!")....and still be in position to sign BOTH Deng and Gordon and stay under the luxury tax threshold.
by MMP on
Jul 6, 2007 1:51 PM CDT
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noch
by piccolomair on
Jul 6, 2007 1:13 PM CDT
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Good deal
I just hope he's fully healthy.
by nateroth on
Jul 6, 2007 1:22 PM CDT
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gargh
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
Jul 6, 2007 1:32 PM CDT
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What does when he gets it have to with anything?
by Scotter on
Jul 6, 2007 2:03 PM CDT
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No mistake
I'm still hoping that this is step one (with a trade for Kobe or Garnett coming next) in which case you'll be happy Nocioni is still around instead of a big hole.
by nateroth on
Jul 6, 2007 2:14 PM CDT
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"plays well within our offense"
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
Jul 6, 2007 2:18 PM CDT
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