Grizzlies after Nocioni?

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 3, 2007 10:00 AM CDT Comment 67 comments

Blog by Memphis radio guy (via hoopshype):

I was told tonight that Grizzlies GM Chris Wallace is, in fact, in Argentina and is meeting with a free agent... Andres Nocioni.

You are all thinking what I'm thinking: start the sign/trade for Gasol talks!

Although I admit that it makes little sense for the Grizzlies to want to cut payroll by trading Gasol yet sign Free Agents like Nocioni.

FanPosts are user-created posts from the BlogABull community, and are to be treated as the opinions and views of that particular user, not that of the blogger or blog community as a whole.

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Pax holds card close

From the Sun Times yesterday:

"They [Nocioni's agent] know we want Noce back," Paxson said Monday after a news conference at the Berto Center to introduce the team's draft picks. "We're in the process of trying to work something out. I know there is interest in Noce; everybody would love to have him on their team. And there are a few teams with cap space that could potentially go out and throw an offer sheet down.

"But I've always said -- and Jerry [Reinsdorf] is with me on this -- we're going to match offer sheets. We're not going to lose a player for nothing. I don't believe we're in a position where we can do that. And we still believe that we're in a position financially where we're in good shape."

As for making a blockbuster trade for Kobe Bryant, Kevin Garnett or Pau Gasol, Paxson said he has had no substantial talks.

"You monitor what goes on everywhere and try to get a feel for things," he said, "but there is nothing going on right now, no."

by paxson43 on Jul 3, 2007 10:12 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

This could be really good

Wallace has a disatrous GM history. He's usually exactly the type of guy Pax likes to deal with, and take advantage of. Just like our favorite "Bad Boy" from the West Side of Chicago. :)

In Pax we Trust!

by Jobu on Jul 3, 2007 10:17 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

What would potential deals for Gasol look like?

ESPN Trade Machine is not very helpful in this situation as there are a number of variables that it can't account for (Noce/PJ sign and trade contracts, rookie salaries, etc) so I'm unable to construct a realistic trade to land Gasol. Can someone who understands cap and all that other stuff come up with a realistic trade package?

NO idea if this would work but I'd assume that the package would involve Ty or Noah + Du + Noce (sign/trade) + filler?

by paxson43 on Jul 3, 2007 10:49 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

The ESPN Trade Machine is pretty much useless

because it stil is using 2006-07 salaries. Hinrich is on the books for $11m this year and Gasol for just under $14m, and ESPN isn't showing that here.

Obama 2008 Obama 2012

by Colossus on Jul 3, 2007 10:53 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Memphis

If you look at the Memphis Roster they seem to really need a 2 guard with size (Conley & Lowrey are smaller than Hinrich/Gordon), have no shortage of 6-7 to 6-9 forwards, and would need big man to replace Pau if he's moved.

I wonder if a resigned Noc, Sefolosha, & Noah would get it done? Would they need Gordon? Would they want Gordon seeing as how Conley Jr. is undersized? Damn it, if only we had a raging alcoholic on our team! Wallace couldn't resist him!

In Pax we Trust!

by Jobu on Jul 3, 2007 11:01 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'd think that'd be enough

plus, Duhon may be close to alchoholism by now so he can be thrown in.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 3, 2007 11:12 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Even if Duhon were traded,

I'm sure Skiles would still find a way to play him too damn much.

Obama 2008 Obama 2012

by Colossus on Jul 3, 2007 11:14 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

classic

by milesgmsu on Jul 3, 2007 4:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

That's right!

Aren't there some internet pictures of Duhon partying it up and sitting on some girl's lap?

BTW - my "raging alcoholic" link above was, not surprisingly, supposed to link to this guy

In Pax we Trust!

by Jobu on Jul 3, 2007 11:18 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Better than ESPN trade machine

http://www.realgm.com/src_tradechecker/1/.

by Jesse07 on Jul 3, 2007 11:38 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Matt

Could you place that link on the main page? That link would be more fun to look at during the season.

by kingj41 on Jul 3, 2007 12:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

And....

I'd be happy if all Pax had to give up was Ty/Noah + Du + Noc + filler.

Obama 2008 Obama 2012

by Colossus on Jul 3, 2007 10:55 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Or...

they offer Noce a very good contract that the Bulls won't match, and the bulls lose Noce for nothing.

I think it's a more likely scenario than a sign and trade involving Noce and Gasol, unfortunately.

The Game chose him !

by Diabolo on Jul 3, 2007 11:03 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Don't Want Gasol

I'm really starting to feel just resiging Noc and gettin another servicable big man to add to the mix more and more. I don't want to see either Ty or Noah traded, if we can fleece Wallace and only give up Noc, Du, and maybe PJ or some other filler I'd do it.

by Ceasaleo on Jul 3, 2007 11:13 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

they might be reckless enough to do that

the other issue would be the Base-Year ramification of a Noce contract. Am I mistaken that only half of a new noce contract could apply to a trade? If that's the case, would Noah, Sef and Noce be enough?
Also, I would imagine that Pax might try to squirrel a pick out of a trade, seeing how he's handled this in the past.

by CookDing on Jul 3, 2007 11:21 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

More positive thoughts

Now we get the best player in the trade and a pick?

And with the 9th pick the Bulls select...

by bullshooter on Jul 3, 2007 11:23 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

that's exactly the type of input

that Paxson comes to blogabull looking for. Noc, Du and maybe PJ for a skilled offensive big man. Now that his talent compass has been recalibrated, I'm sure Paxson will be filing the press release any day now.

And with the 9th pick the Bulls select...

by bullshooter on Jul 3, 2007 11:21 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Wrong Smartass

I wasn't saying that was what Gasol was worth. I was saying that is all I would give up for a skilled offensive player, who plays no man to man D, and has neva lead his team close to smelling a vic in the playoffs.
Rather keep our current squad and just add on.

by Ceasaleo on Jul 3, 2007 11:32 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

here here

I hope for Noah but I expect Hawes.

by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on Jul 3, 2007 11:35 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

again

if Gasol's Grizzlies were in the East they'd be going deep in the playoffs yearly instead of pummeled by the Spurs.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 3, 2007 11:41 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

You could tell the future?

That's pretty awesome

Rasheed Wallace likes to comment about guys' butts. -"Them butt holes got tighter and TIGHTER."

by NittanyBull on Jul 3, 2007 7:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

That's not the future, dingleberry.

Yes, of course.

by tyger1147 on Jul 3, 2007 8:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Could*

Try and actually read exactly what I said, tyger, instead of making yourself look like a freakin' idiot

Rasheed Wallace likes to comment about guys' butts. -"Them butt holes got tighter and TIGHTER."

by NittanyBull on Jul 4, 2007 1:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Oh...

So you're assuming that Matt meant the current Grizzlies team, as constructed, is a playoff team? I see.

See, I took it that he was referencing their 50, 45, 49 win teams that got pummeled in the playoffs and how they would have been better off in the depleted East.

Not that their 26-win team in an improving Eastern Conference would be going deep into the playoffs. I didn't understand it like you did. I don't agree with that, but I could see how someone might assume someone would be talking about a 26-win team going deep into the playoffs just by switching conferences. I don't agree with it, but I see how someone could make that jump.

(Actually, no I don't. That's why I jumped on you, because it's such an illogical idea that it didn't occur to me.)

Yes, of course.

by tyger1147 on Jul 4, 2007 3:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

(Sigh) Alright. A little nudge of a joke,

and you start running your mouth. Firstly, what the hell are you talking about, 26? Where is this number from? They won 28 wins in 2002-2003, or their 22 wins in 2006-2007, NOT 26, if that's what you're talking about... Where the hell are you getting this number from? Are you talking about their 22 game improvement which put them at 50-32, which still isn't that magical 26 you kept putting in? Wow, good job on making me look like an idiot... my face is red.

You talk about a 2003-2004 Grizzlies team that had it's first playoff berth in the history of a franchise, could somehow propel it's way into an NBA Finals appearance if it was in the Eastern Conference. You know, with that dynamic starting lineup of Po-Z, Lorenzen Wright(off of his 2002-2003 improvement), and Jason Williams, who started his decline(take a look at his APG). Yeah, they could have stopped the Pacers that season, with their lineup consisting of Tinsley, Miller, O'Neal and Artest. They would of just whooped them, probably while playing the soon-to-be champion Pistons.

Or that 2004-2005 season, when Brown(after his COY award he received last year) left in the middle of the season, for the team to start being coached by Fratello. And, despite having a surge into the playoffs, somehow--almost inexplicably-- got bounced in the playoffs after not winning a game. Could they have advanced in the 2nd round of the Eastern Conference? Probably, yeah. But what happened when they were faced with O'Neal in the center? Maybe you would like to give me some insight, in your great wisdom, as to how the defensive geniuses of Wright, Battier/Miller would have stopped him. Or how Williams could easily defend Dwyane Wade when he drives in to the lane? Even though I think this was their best team in franchise history, they couldn't have won much in either conference.

To tell you the truth, I'm going to stop here and not even talk about the 2005-2006 season, after they were apart of the biggest NBA trade in history...I don't even think this is a good defense to your argument honestly, because I have no idea what the hell this 26 number is.

Are you okay?

Rasheed Wallace likes to comment about guys' butts. -"Them butt holes got tighter and TIGHTER."

by NittanyBull on Jul 4, 2007 10:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

this is the first year

any of the Bulls players have won a playoff series, and were upset in previous years. And how many Memphis games have you seen to claim that Gasol plays no D? And leading his team to a world championship counts for something in my book. I would welcome Gasol to the Bulls. He's better than most of the guys the Bulls have now.

And with the 9th pick the Bulls select...

by bullshooter on Jul 3, 2007 11:47 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Basically

I haven't seen every game that the Grizz play, but I've seen enough to know that Skiles would consistently get in his ass ova playing D. And we all know how Skiles treats players that don't play D (See Curry's frequent 4th quarters off). Gasol plays matador D.
And as far as gettin out the 1st round, I didn't say lead them to the 2nd round, I said lead them to a VICTORY. NO WINS at all, zip, zero, nada. We had no established offensive threat the first year we got in the playoffs and won 2 games. If's he's such an offensive wonder u would think he could help win 1 at least. I don't even remember him really showing up, maybe that's cuz of the quick exit tho.

by Ceasaleo on Jul 3, 2007 12:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Just to add...

Winning World Championships means nothing to me, unless it's from the NBA, other than for the experience.

by Ceasaleo on Jul 3, 2007 12:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

who memphis lost to

03-04 Spurs who've won the title 4 times in the last 9 years, 04-05 Suns who went to the conference finals, and the 05-06 Mavs who went to the finals and got jobbed. I don't think you've seen enough basketball, let alone Griz games to know what your talking about.

And with the 9th pick the Bulls select...

by bullshooter on Jul 3, 2007 1:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Who Cares Who They Lost to...

They still lost, and didn't win a single game in the process. I watch enough basketball to know that I'd rather see us stay with the team we have than trade for him and open more holes.

I want guys who want to ball on my team, and he just looks and plays too indifferent too much for my taste. Like he's just going thru the motions.

by Ceasaleo on Jul 3, 2007 1:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Aramis Ramirez looks disinterested, too.

Yes, of course.

by tyger1147 on Jul 3, 2007 3:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

jizzle

by milesgmsu on Jul 3, 2007 4:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

they only lost by 2

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/MEM20040422.html

by milesgmsu on Jul 3, 2007 4:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Agreed

I am looking forward to seeing this team play.

by Jesse07 on Jul 3, 2007 11:36 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Gasol sucks!

I hope for Noah but I expect Hawes.

by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on Jul 3, 2007 11:22 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

According to Pax, he isn't currently pursuing any

sign and trades:

"I haven't talked to anybody about that," Paxson said. "Our preference is to sign him outright. Sign-and-trades are difficult because everybody has to be on board. It has to be a destination the player wants. I think they're more last resort than anything else. We'd like to get something done with him because he's so valuable for us."

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/basketball/bulls/cs-070202bullsbrite,1,5465105.story? coll=cs-bulls-headlines

by 1958ChiTown on Jul 3, 2007 11:25 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

i'll write more some other time

but I hope Pax is just slow playing this and doesn't believe his own hype over Noc's 'value'

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 3, 2007 11:40 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

gasol haters

what's with the people who hate gasol here. I hope you arent sour about missing out on randolph. Gasol is a 20-10 guy who plays three times the defense randolph plays and actually blocks shots, adds size and is a great passer, not a black hole on offense. His contract is big but not huge. I dont understand how some poeple here hate gasol so much. I am sure deng couldnt lead the grizzlies to t he conference finals either. Just because they have a shit team doesnt mean you should blame gasol for never getting pas the first round. Oh and he's young. No one's suggesting trading gordon and deng for gasol, but if little pieces plus nocioni and noah/tyrus is all it takes to get him, why the hell shouldnt the bulls get him?

by Sambossanova on Jul 3, 2007 11:47 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

I do not wana see Gasol a Bull.

I'll stop watching.

I hope for Noah but I expect Hawes.

by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on Jul 3, 2007 11:54 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

quality rebuttal.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 3, 2007 11:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

...and you'll take your

toys and run home too?

by EdNealy on Jul 3, 2007 12:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

yeah but I'll let your mom keep

the pink vibrator that she loves.

I hope for Noah but I expect Hawes.

by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on Jul 3, 2007 4:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

PLEASE LET GASOL BE A BULL THEN!

haha

by milesgmsu on Jul 3, 2007 4:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

You typed my thoughts...

People who say Gasol doesn't play D don't watch enough games. I'm real high on Tyrus, but Pau is a guy that makes plays on both ends.
He is the Memphis' best option on offense and while he struggles somewhat guarding athletic big men away from the paint, he's a more than sufficient defender down low. And if he were to pair with Ben, Ben neutralizing the primary post presence, Pau's help D would be tremendous because he's still athletic, long, and smart enough to recover.
I'm satisfied with this roster, but if you ask for an upgrade that won't break the bank and the roster, then a trade for Pau is the best pursuit. I truly would consider him an upgrade over Tyrus for what he brings on both ends. Not as explosive, but it creates a championship caliber team if not TOO much is given up.

by kingj41 on Jul 3, 2007 12:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Ditto

by Jesse07 on Jul 3, 2007 12:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I wouldn't cry over this...

I'd rather sub Ty with Noah, but if it had to be Ty, so be it. Note(Noc's extension amt would probably fall in the same range.)

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/traderesult?players=2377~2435~2456~3032~996&teams=29~29~29 ~29~4

by kingj41 on Jul 3, 2007 12:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

when did they

make all the FAs be a part of the team

by milesgmsu on Jul 3, 2007 4:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

It's Not Gasol Hate

It's Bulls Love

I just don't see acquiring Gasol as that much of an upgrade, unless all we're giving up is Noc and some garbage.

By trading Noc, Du, and either Ty or Noah for Gasol (as most have been throwing out) all we do is open more holes than we had b4 the trade. Who's gonna back up Deng? And we'll still need to get another big man.

I'd just much rather ride out with what we got, that's all.

by Ceasaleo on Jul 3, 2007 1:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

you gotta be kidding

du noch and ty/noah for gasol.....it makes the best starting lineup in the game, and we just fill out a few depth chart positions as backups with exceptions and minimums that lineup gets us to the finals

by milesgmsu on Jul 3, 2007 4:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

It seems pretty unlikely that we would be able

to get Gasol without giving up Gordon or Deng (realize your post said "AND," I am just making a slightly different point here).

by 1958ChiTown on Jul 3, 2007 12:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

don't kill the dream

you can argue they'd prefer Thomas or Noah since they're farther from receiving contract extensions.

</grasping at straws>

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 3, 2007 12:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Cap relief

Teams are always looking for cap relief. Look at Portland, who has 1 of the richest owners, they pretty much shipped out ZBO for straight cap relief. Your telling me that you do not believe that a struggling franchise do the same.

Also, they might be looking at the Twolves situation and see how the Wolves are finally willing to part with Garnett, but they passed up some quality offer in the past that are no longer there.

by Jesse07 on Jul 3, 2007 12:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

That trade was not for cap relief

"They had me do a psychology test and I asked Coach Skiles if that affected his coaching. He laughed and said, `No way.'" (Joakim Noah)

by wjb1492 on Jul 3, 2007 12:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

and the bullshit rebuttal without any evidence

and showcasing complete lack of basketball knowledge with a possible hint of subtle sarcasim award goes to...

by milesgmsu on Jul 3, 2007 4:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Ah, but you see the sarcasm is seriously

undercut by providing a detailed response.

I daresay I follow Blazer basketball closer than most people here - if recognizing that any cap relief provided by the trade was purely icing on the cake is a complete lack of basketball knowledge, then so be it.

"They had me do a psychology test and I asked Coach Skiles if that affected his coaching. He laughed and said, `No way.'" (Joakim Noah)

by wjb1492 on Jul 3, 2007 6:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

RE:It seems pretty unlikely that we would be able

Not necessarily. Memphis has small guards (Conley Jr, Lowry, Damon Stoudamire) and an amount of 6'8 swingman that would make even Billy King blush (Mike Miller, Rudy Gay, Warrick, Stro Swift). Gordon or Deng wouldn't be addressing a glaring weakness or replacing Gasol's interior presence.

I'd like to think that they'd like a M2GwCDaS (didn't see that coming did you!) to offset Conley's munchkin-ness and some height to replace Pau. Say, perhaps, Griffin & Noah?

In Pax we Trust!

by Jobu on Jul 3, 2007 12:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Don't take it personally but I hate all spaniards

Gasol just happens to fall into that category.

by boerwinkle on Jul 3, 2007 5:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Varejao Reported Signing an Offer Sheet with Memph

The Akron Beacon is reporting that a team, most likely Memphis, is preparing a large offer sheet to restricted free agent Varejao. I don't think they have the cap room to sign him and Noce, not without a sign and trade for one of them.

by Bay Area Bulls Fan on Jul 3, 2007 1:52 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

That's be a nice signing for the Bulls

Let's hope it's true, and that Cavs don't match it. I guess even if they do, though, it increases the Cavs' cap problems in coming seasons.

"They had me do a psychology test and I asked Coach Skiles if that affected his coaching. He laughed and said, `No way.'" (Joakim Noah)

by wjb1492 on Jul 3, 2007 1:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Nice win-win for Bulls

Cavs either lose a decent, young big man or are forced to overpay for him.

In Pax we Trust!

by Jobu on Jul 3, 2007 2:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

or lose varejao...i kdnto knwo where

decent young bigman came from

by milesgmsu on Jul 3, 2007 4:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Grizz wanted Noah

and took Conley. So it makes sense they're after Andy. Guess they'd want Noc for perimenter vet to go with Gasol's experience? But already have Miller? I really think they want to build around Pau, which is maybe the best thing to do. I know he's got an Int'l championship, but to me he's the Walt Bellamy of this generation.

In a sign and trade with a restricted FA, the salaries don't have to match. So if they throw too much at Noc, get Rudy Gay in return Pax! Warrick is good but need better handle. And NO Mike Miller.

by marionette on Jul 3, 2007 4:35 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

A report

If this is the trade that goes through, Paxson would be known for being the genius everyone already thinks he is

Nocioni, Noah, Duhon and a filler for Gasol?????!!!!!!!!

That would be rape. The Bulls would get Gasol and not lose Gordon, Deng or Tyrus? Woah.

Imagine that line up

Hinrich/Sefolosha/Curry
Gordon/Sefolosha/Curry
Deng/Tyrus/Griffin
Gasol/Tyrus
Wallace/Gray

Fuckin A

Sad Sad Sad Sad Sad

by Option27 on Jul 4, 2007 10:20 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

I seriously hope McGraw is not a BAB-reader

I threw that trade idea out there yesterday. I'm going to spend the rest of the day believing that Mike McGraw reads me for NBA insights.

by paxson43 on Jul 4, 2007 11:46 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Roster only ten

If that trade went down, there are two more to spots to fill out the roster.

What about going after Morris Peterson to help fill out the roster. Im not sure what teams are interested in him. He could replace some of the three point shooting lost by Noce. Also, he is an unrestricted free agent.
Krap can be a poor man's Noce (unless he is a filler.)

by Jesse07 on Jul 4, 2007 6:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Allen

or resign allen to fill the need of a four who can hit an outside shot.

by Jesse07 on Jul 4, 2007 6:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Cap Info

I found some good cap info frmo the Prosportsdaily Forum's.

2007
Wallace-$15.5m
Gasol-13.7
Kirk-11
BG-4.8
TT-3.5
Deng-3.3
VK-1.9
Thabo-1.8
Griffin-1.6
Gray-500k
Curry-500k

2007=$58m (plus 4 fillers for the remaining 4 spots)

2008
Wallce-$14.5m
Gasol-15.1
Kirk-10
Deng-10 (Resigned ESCALATING max contract)
BG-9 (Resigned ESCALATING NEAR max contract)
TT-3.7
Thabo-1.9
Griffin-1.7
Gray-675k
Curry-675k

2008=$67m (plus fillers for the remaining 5 spots)

So yeah, we should be right at or slightly above the luxury tax in 08 and 09. Our salary cap would be in good shape, even after the extensions for Deng and BG. After 09, when TT and Sef come due for extensions, Wallace's $14m will be coming off the books.....

by Jesse07 on Jul 4, 2007 7:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs