Duty, Honor, and Employer

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 19, 2007 12:29 PM CDT in News Comment 53 comments

On a Wednesday press conference full of feel-goodery (not that there's anything wrong with that) was the revelation that Nocioni won't be playing for the Argentinean national team this summer. A relief to Bulls fans due to the whole 'just out of a walking boot' situation Noc is currently in.

But Kirk Hinrich is still participating in the upcoming Team USA workouts, and other Bulls players like Luol Deng (Britain) and Thabo Sefolosha (Switzerland) will have similar activities this summer. In the future the Bulls could see Ben Gordon (Another British citizen, although he hasn't expressed as much interest as Deng) and Joakim Noah (France) suit up for their respective nations.

Pax gave an sobering response to their summer fun:

In a perfect world, all of us would like to see our guys not overextend themselves, but it's just a part of the NBA today.

It is, and it kindof sucks.

I don't think it'd be wise for the Bulls (especially after the headband fiasco) to unilaterally bar their players from competing internationally. But if I were an owner I'd certainly put on a nice suit and call a meeting to discuss an NBA-wide policy regarding this. Right now, the policy seems to be bending over backwards to support USA Basketball, an organization that only seems to bring negative publicity to the league when the team is beaten in a single-elimination tournament (which can, ya know, happen) and then gets ripped apart by people who otherwise wouldn't give a crap who wins.

There's the notion that supporting international competition sparks interest in the game worldwide, but this isn't 1992, and basketball fans around the world can see NBA games through the magic of technology. Does the intangible support of the game as a whole make up for the risk in devaluing the NBA product through injuries and bad publicity?

You can read this full rant from a long long while ago but as a synopsis my opinion is international competition isn't worth it. There's even more 'invested' in the issue for me now, since Bulls players are actually good enough to compete on their national teams. And as Mark Cuban has said before, it's too much of a risk to the teams who are actually paying them millions of dollars to let these guys play at all.

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*Argentine

I recall Gordon has expressed some interest in playing for the UK too.

by hscs on Jul 19, 2007 12:52 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Would that be why...

...Matt typed "as much interest as"? Could be.

Yes, of course.

by tyger1147 on Jul 19, 2007 12:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I skimmed

by hscs on Jul 19, 2007 12:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

You are a prat.

Wow.

Yes, of course.

by tyger1147 on Jul 19, 2007 2:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

SHOCKING

I know, no one has ever skimmed anything in the history of reading. My deepest apologies to Matt, and to you. This type of bad PR is devastating. Or I have a FIBA RSS feed, and felt informed enough that I could skim for the juicy part of a blog post regarding an international competition. Sorry again, the blog post regarding an international competition. Off to self-flagellate!

by hscs on Jul 19, 2007 2:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

just wash your hands before returning.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 19, 2007 2:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

It's more about you needing to correct someone...

...when you don't read it. I guess I shouldn't say prat as much as idiot. No one cares if anyone skims anything.

But how can you correct someone as if they left something out, if you didn't read the whole thing--especially the part about which you were correcting? I guess it just makes you look stupid. But you're used to that by now.

Yes, of course.

by tyger1147 on Jul 19, 2007 3:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

what?

The Argentine thing was a correction/criticism/I-type-"Veektor"-and-it's-not-a-big-deal. My Gordon comment was nothing more than a comment on the situation. I wasn't correcting anyone. Gordon might wear a UK jersey, and it could ruin a Bulls season. I admittedly missed that part of the post, and thought I could share information as well as comment on a lousy situation. Ooh, I'm going to hold off on defending this comment until the weekend. I love doing it so much I want to save it.

by hscs on Jul 19, 2007 4:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

As ususal

by EdNealy on Jul 20, 2007 10:18 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

are you here unchaperoned today?

by hscs on Jul 20, 2007 12:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Just here for my usual, daily dose

of your comedic relief.

by EdNealy on Jul 20, 2007 1:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

In modern usage, either is acceptable.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/argentinean

How is that Gordon could establish British citizenship? What are the rules for the Olympic games?

by 1958ChiTown on Jul 19, 2007 12:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Argentine sounds much nicer

and I'll always nod my head accordingly with Sam on the issue. I'm not sure what Ben's citizenship status is. I assume it's not tough to play for any country.

by hscs on Jul 19, 2007 1:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Gordon was born in the UK

so he may be a citizen already, and as you said, eligibility seems to be a pretty fluid term.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 19, 2007 1:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

re: international eligability

Depends on the country itself i think. Remember in the Italy Olympics they wanted Mike Piazza to play for the Italian baseball team.

by haze on Jul 20, 2007 2:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

International play

I think everyone should participate. In soccer, players take pride in being part of the national team. It's the highest honor to be named to the squad and representing your country. It makes the games much more emotional, personal and hard fought/better quality.

Soccer players also play in their respective leagues throughout the year and although there is some complaining of fatigue once in a while, people dont bitch about being tired for the regular season cause of international play. And these are people who get paid as much as NBA players. If the players are fatigued during the regular season, then i think NBA players should get into better shape. I guess injuries are a concern.

If anything, the NBA should shorten its season to 62 games or so and/or draw up a easier travel schedule.

by Sambossanova on Jul 19, 2007 1:17 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

I'd say the world cup

has a little more of a traditional foothold than international basketball.

I don't think anyone disagrees with a shorter NBA schedule with our without international play. But it's never going to happen.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 19, 2007 1:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Soccer

Aside from the world cup, teams participate in other games, tournaments and even friendlies with some of their best players. The commitment required is important, and I think thats what Team USA is trying to emphasize too.

But yes, world cup has a stronger foothold.

by Sambossanova on Jul 19, 2007 3:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

and Europe is more congested, obviously

so it's easier to have their teams fly around and play eachother.

I think it's established that soccer players simply care more about international competition than their club, that's the traditional pecking order.

Most NBA players aren't raised that way (supposedly the international ones are though) and I don't want NBA players feeling that way since I like the league. So trying to make up this sense of duty to international competition just seems hollow. I'd rather just settle for this.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 19, 2007 3:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

i do

i want the NBA schedy longer...i'm a basketball nut

by milesgmsu on Jul 20, 2007 9:46 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

while on the 'soccer' subject

Sorry about ur loss buddy. I was rooting for your team.

The Future is bright!

by Goostafer on Jul 19, 2007 1:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Clips Nation has had

a couple of posts up over the past few days on the issue of playing for Team USA. Not exactly to the point made here, but looking at this supposed 3-year commitment that was intended to fix the continuity problem, as well as the likelihood of actually selecting a "team" complete with role players.

It will be interesting to see what happens with Kirk and Shane Battier - if I remember correctly, Colangelo said last year that they'd be giving extra consideration to guys who played last year, and Kirk and Battier are the type of Team USA role players they keep talking about needing. Yet, as ClipperSteve points out, it's hard to imaging USA basketball turning down All-Stars - so basically this whole new "plan" for Team USA isn't anything other than the same old plan.

Anyway, I enjoy the honor of our guys being invited to play for their teams, but like everyone else I don't like the risk to the guys. I care far less about the US winning gold medals than the Bulls competing for a championship.

"They had me do a psychology test and I asked Coach Skiles if that affected his coaching. He laughed and said, `No way.'" (Joakim Noah)

by wjb1492 on Jul 19, 2007 1:19 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Stern

Didn't Mr. Stern make it illegal for clubs to ask players not to play. I remember story about Spurs memo and Ginobli was floating around.

I'm glad Noc isn't playing and I agree NBA season is long enough these guys don't need more games in offseason. Better off resting and working on conditioning and basketball skills without extra travel. Of course one could always get hurt at any time but even top atheletes need some break in season I think

by NY Chicago Fan on Jul 19, 2007 1:54 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Speaking of injuries, has there

been any news concerning TT's tendinitis?

I see that he isn't even on the roster for the Salt Lake summer league.

by 1958ChiTown on Jul 19, 2007 2:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

they kept him home

to receive treatment. Pax mentioned in yesterday's news conference that TT needs to get his legs stronger. And if I was really good, I'd find that link but I'm pretty sure it's in one of the stories in the papers so nicely linked on the side.

by KT on Jul 19, 2007 2:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I kinda agree

When you have so much money invested into a player, you want to limit him to doing things that will only benefit your team. BUT you shouldn't be allowed to forbid someone from representing his country.

Simple opinion but I feel like that's the just of it.

Just Opinions

by Option27 on Jul 19, 2007 2:37 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Why not?

Contracts can be voided for other potential harmful behavior (riding motorcycles, playing pickup games) why not international play? Seems reasonable to protect your investment.

by onlythebulls on Jul 19, 2007 3:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I remember

last year Kirk saying he had to take out an insurance policy on himself if he wanted to play for Team USA.

by sue369 on Jul 19, 2007 5:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Those things

are completely different than playing for your country...I don't need to get into specifics but we know they are

Just Opinions

by Option27 on Jul 20, 2007 10:03 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

It is a different game

Until we are willing to stock our USA team with 3-point specialist instead of slasher/scorers ie All Stars and rebounding, shot blocking, passing centers instead of dunkers, we will continue to struggle in the international game.

by Goshdengit on Jul 19, 2007 2:46 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

confused

i dont know what u mean...
but i think we need more role players. not just all stars.

by awallenwong on Jul 19, 2007 3:05 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Bulls news

if anyone is interested, I found this page that has up to date Bulls news feeds

http://www.dcdeal.com/bulls

by ziola1039 on Jul 19, 2007 4:18 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Im personally not too worried

if Thabo and Noah play for their international teams. I don't see Noah or Thabo getting enough minutes next season to get fatigued. It would also give Noah more playing/developing time. This is if his shoulder is okay by then, of course.

Im not too sure on gordon, does a shooting guard get just as fatigued over a season as a point guard that pushes the ball?

by givepaxahug on Jul 19, 2007 6:28 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

The solution would be...

to shorten the season. There is no need for 82 games, and they should go back to the old system of only having travel days during the playoffs when the teams, you know... travel. The ridiculously long NBA season is the problem here, and the people that get hurt the most are the players. If they decide to play, they are risking their health in the upcoming season. If they don't play, they are criticized harshly for not honoring their country.

The owners need to step up and shorten the season. It will cost them money, but will increase the publicity of the league and give them a better return on their investment in player contracts.

by shawndgoldman on Jul 19, 2007 10:16 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

i'll disagree with one thing

I don't thing any player would be criticized 'harshly' for not playing in international ball. It's just not that important. Maybe Skip Bayless will scream about it...

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 19, 2007 10:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Maybe they shouldn't be...

but they are. You may not criticize them for it, but in my opinion it plays a part in the poor perception of NBA players. Many people view it as their duty to their country to represent it in international competition.

by shawndgoldman on Jul 20, 2007 12:17 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think the players are criticized

more when they do attend and don't win a gold, then if they don't play at all. Nobody gives Shaq any guff.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 20, 2007 9:24 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

better return?

it gives them a worse return...the players are getting the paid to play less...

OT: Imagine how screwed career stats would get if they chopped off 1/4 of the season

by milesgmsu on Jul 20, 2007 9:47 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Kirk

Does kirk even get that many minutes on the team. Isnt he the 11th man or something? And when he plays he is ussually at SG i though.

by Sambossanova on Jul 19, 2007 10:50 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

He was the starting pg

in the last two games last year.

Need new sig

by bullshooter on Jul 20, 2007 9:30 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

He averaged 19.4 minutes

(175 total minutes over 9 games) last year, 5th highest on the team, played in all 9 games and started 3 of them.

http://usabasketball.com/seniormen/2006/06_mwc_cumulative_stats.html

I'm not sure it's the game minutes played that's so tiring, though. Just my opinion, but I always thought it was the long periods of travel. They'd probably be playing basketball somewhere anyway. Since it's in country this year, I would think it shouldn't be quite such a big deal.

"They had me do a psychology test and I asked Coach Skiles if that affected his coaching. He laughed and said, `No way.'" (Joakim Noah)

by wjb1492 on Jul 20, 2007 9:37 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

And that means

we won't be getting up at silly hours in the morning to watch them this year.

by sue369 on Jul 20, 2007 10:27 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

awesome

he led the teams in fouls commited. Why doesnt that surprise me. He really neds to get on that.

by Sambossanova on Jul 20, 2007 12:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Worn out Kirk.

As has been repeated many times by Skile and Pax, Hinrich looked really run-down at the end of the year. Be nice to see him "not picked" this year for the squad as he could use the time for more rest and strength building (which he's apparantly doing right now)

by EdNealy on Jul 20, 2007 10:24 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I rather

see Kirk play for Team USA. I'm all for representing your country. It'll be tough on his body, but he's young, I'm sure he's making amny proud to be wearing that USA shirt, even if it's not as important to most. It also gives him more practice time and it'll be nice to see him throwing lob passes to Tyson once again.

The Future is bright!

by Goostafer on Jul 20, 2007 10:57 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yes!

The Kirk-to-Tyson-to-fumbled-out-of-bounds connection will FINALLY be back!

by Petor on Jul 20, 2007 12:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Couldnt believe it when i saw tyson

whats he doing on an international team? Yuck. The pg situation for the national team has J kidd and Chauncey. Kirks not going to be doing much more than practicing.

by haze on Jul 20, 2007 2:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

You could be right

Last year, Chris Paul was the only pure PG. Wade and J. Johnson were there as combo guards. With Kidd, Billups AND Deron Williams, Kirk, hopefully rides the pine.

by EdNealy on Jul 20, 2007 2:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Be careful

ed. I got in trouble for using the PURE point guard reference. I don't think thats allowed on this forum until the bulls actually get one.

by Blacknight23 on Jul 20, 2007 5:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Int'l Play

Most countries don't have the money, talent, or infrastructure to sustain their own basketball league (or any other sports league for that matter). This is partly why they take a lot more pride/interest in their national teams than we do here in the US. Also, since US players are getting paid huge amounts of money, there's a lot less incentive to risk injury participating in international play against what I'm sure a lot of them still perceive as lesser talent. (Even though they have recently been getting their collective asses handed to them in international play.)

by Mike Aparicio on Jul 20, 2007 2:57 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Team USA coverage

NBA.com has a Q&A with several of the players up - here's Kirk's:

NBA.com: You sort of split time with Chris Paul last summer, but with Paul not here this time around, what's your mentality entering this training camp?

Kirk Hinrich: "My mentality is same as it was last year ... I just want to be a part of it. There are great guards; Jason Kidd, Chauncey Billups and Deron Williams are all great players. I just wanted to come out and experience it. It's a great opportunity. I'm just excited to be here."

NBA.com: Talk about the 2003 Draft pride on this team with you, Chris, LeBron, Dwyane and Carmelo ...

Kirk Hinrich: "I don't know. We kind of know each other through that, but I dont know how much pride we take in it. They're all great players. It's cool because I've known them a long time through the draft process, being the same year, but I don't know if any of them would say they take pride in it. But it was a great draft, a lot of great players."

NBA.com: How good were you when you were five years old?

Kirk Hinrich: "I don't know. I don't remember. I just remember growing up, I was usually one of the better players. At five years old, I was just trying to throw the ball in the hoop, so I don't really remember. I was probably good because my dad was a coach. That is kind of always what I have been doing. I think I was taught the right way at a young age."

NBA.com: When did you realize you were better than most of your friends?

Kirk Hinrich: "Probably third or fourth grade, since I started playing organized basketball. I was always the best one among my peers and stuff like that."

NBA.com: How hard did you work to become a great player?

Kirk Hinrich: "Really hard for myself, I have a lot of natural ability, but I put in a lot of hard work. Coming out of high school, I felt like I was a good player, but I was no highly-touted recruit. I just really worked at it. When I was in college, every summer and during the season, I just wanted to play basketball and make the NBA. I just really worked hard at it."

NBA.com: Is your family proud of you that you're playing for your country?

Kirk Hinrich: "Yeah. They are really proud of me. Especially being from Iowa. There are not many people making it from that state. They are really proud of me. For my dad, it has probably been his dream since he found out he was having a boy and he became a basketball coach. It's probably been his dream that his son play in this shirt. I know my family is really proud of me. It is a great honor, probably the best honor I have ever had. To be able to represent my country at this level. I take great pride in it and try to do my best."

Apparently, they either don't consider Kirk a PG or consider him a lock to be cut, because in Jason Kidd's Q&A they ask him specifically about competing with Billups and Williams (in the absence of Chris Paul). JK was good enough to include Kirk in his response anyway.

Chris Sheridan also has an article up about Team USA, although his focus is mainly Kobe. He didn't pull any punches when discussing those from last year who have elected not to return, noting that Arenas and Bowen were unhappy to be cut and Jamison was unhappy with his playing time. Although Sheridan doesn't include Kirk as a likely cut after this weekend, he did make the statement:

Instead of Kirk Hinrich and Chris Paul running the point, it'll be Jason Kidd and Chauncey Billups.

"They had me do a psychology test and I asked Coach Skiles if that affected his coaching. He laughed and said, `No way.'" (Joakim Noah)

by wjb1492 on Jul 21, 2007 5:42 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs