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Saying nice things about a deep and talented roster, for once

When the offseason started, I thought that all indications from Pax were that he was going to sign some offensive-minded frontcourt player as a free agent, or perhaps an even bigger splash via trade. So when he signed Noc I immediately panned it based on that assumption: not only would the Bulls be paying Noc, but also this yet-unnamed 4, and therefore a 5 year deal was going to a 3rd string PF and backup SF in Nocioni.

So now that we know that unnamed signing is Joe Smith, the worries are now less about the roster, but over Skiles and his rotation. Most notably burying Tyrus Thomas and to a lesser extent Joakim Noah. I definitely have misgivings over now not giving Tyrus the minutes he deserves (since there is some evidence that suggest he is still the best PF on the roster), but I think that ship had already sailed when they re-signed Nocioni, figuring someone like Joe Smith would still be on the way.

Ditching Noc (even while signing Smith) would've been sort of a one-step-back-to-make-3-steps-forward later type move, but now that Noc's here and Smith is here, I'm resolved (that's right, resolved! Ok...I'll probably still rip that signing annoyingly often. 5 Years!) to this year not really being about Tyrus and Noah, but winning the Eastern Conference. And I'm resolved to that being a good strategy: this may be Wallace's last very good season left and it's not like the future is mortgaged trying to win with him on board.

There's something to the worry that signing Smith may make the Bulls better now while hurting development for later, and it's not overstating to say that the development of Thomas and Noah are critical. But I think the benefits of making a finals run this season outweigh any possible stunted development. Noah and Tyrus may see fewer minutes, but they'll be important minutes and their skills will definitely be needed.  It's not like the organization even knows if Deng/Gordon/Hinrich are really championship material, so making a run right now could teach us all about their future too.

For all the shit he got during last season here (by me, heh), Skiles did a good job bringing Tyrus along last year judging by the way Tyrus responded in important late-game minutes near the end of the season. The problem was after Nocioni came back Skiles went back to playing him over Thomas like that progress meant nothing. Hopefully that doesn't happen again, and this season Tyrus (and Noah) earns minutes and keeps them. After several years of Duhon-love one can never be certain though.While I can't say I was comfortable with the idea of nobody being signed and Tyrus having to carry a heavy minutes load, I'm even more wary imagining visions of Thomas spending a majority of the time on the bench even after he's outperformed his elders.

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What will Skiles Do?
Matt I think you're right, the worries over rotation are well founded. If we can read into the release that Smith is a veteran who knows his "role", in effect that means he will get the P.J. Brown treatment.(Not starting, at first, very limited minutes, and a place to play only when productive!) That being said,that still leaves one hell of a log-jam at the 3-4 that won't be settled until someone proves they can score in the post!

by A Train Afro 53 on Jul 18, 2007 12:31 AM CDT   0 recs

Tyrus is a huge part of this team.
I think down the road this will be his team. He'll get good minutes you guys just relax. Paxson wants him to get time.

by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on Jul 18, 2007 12:37 AM CDT   0 recs

Not saying
that all of you assume Smith will start or Noc will play heavy minutes based on them being signed to their respective contracts this offseason, but we have to remember that if there's one thing Pax and Skiles have demonstrated, it's that money means NOTHING to them in terms of playing time.

It is hard to wrap your mind around paying 5-8 mil/yr to guys who'll (hopefully, IMO) probably play no more than 20 mins/game.  Having said that I believe guys like Noc and to a lesser extent Smith are essential pieces not just to the Bulls but any contending team.  I've waxed poetic before about the importance of the energy that Noc brings to a team, and you can't have enough bigs in the NBA.

I just think Pax and Skiles are a couple of 'the sum of the parts is greater than the whole' (did I butcher that?!) kind of guys, meaning they'll pay--perhaps even overpay--for smaller parts they deem essential.  

by Starred4Life on Jul 21, 2007 12:08 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

The best thing that...
... could ever happen to Tyrus was the signing of Joe Smith:

a.) Tyrus is still not ready to start at the 4 position. Smith will smoothen his transition into the stating lineup over the next 2 years. There is no hurry, TT's development should be done the right way, he has over a decade ahead of him to shine.

b.) Tyrus NEEDS a veteran to mentor him and keep him focused. Joe Smith is ideal for this.

Skiles likes what TT brings to the team and I am confident that he will take care of him. His minutes and contribution to the team will definitely increase this season...

Vangelis
(No 1 fan of the Bulls in Europe??)

by Vangelis on Jul 18, 2007 1:36 AM CDT   0 recs

I think
Tyrus has the perfect mentor in Ben Wallace.

Joe Smith isn't the exact guy I was thinking of to mentor Tyrus.

And according to many reports last year, PJ Brown was the perfect guy for Tyrus.

I just want someone to show him how to give everything he has and to make him comfortable.

Just Opinions

by Option27 on Jul 18, 2007 2:37 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I dont get it
why are we debating the minutes for next year so early.  I hope paxson ships wallace out next  year for someone else and we let noah play the starting center. by then tyrus who is starting his third year should be ready to be the starting forward(i say start smith this year). by then noc who everyone was crying about will back up deng and tt and then all is right.

by glycen on Jul 18, 2007 6:28 AM CDT   0 recs

I like the Noah pick as well
But until he puts on some pounds, I couldn't envision him starting the the league
Just Opinions

by Option27 on Jul 18, 2007 9:59 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

it's not his pounds that I'm worried about
it's his GAME  ;-p

by ScottieCartwright on Jul 18, 2007 10:14 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I think Pax is playing it safe
We were all hoping for the low-post scorer FA signing/trade, but I don't think it was in the cards this off-season. Gasol and KG just weren't available with salary structures and the like. Zach Randolph wasn't the answer either. I think Pax saw the writing on the wall, decided to make incremental moves and wait for next year's free agency class (which is supposed to be much better). There might be sign and trade opportunities with Ben Gordon, Smith's expiring contract, that sort of thing.

by Old Skool Sloan on Jul 18, 2007 8:08 AM CDT   0 recs

I agree with this
In case TT isn't what they think, they can plug-in a "you could certainly do worse" -type veteran in Smith.

Ya, didn't seem like anything remotely do-able was brewing with the low-post scorers available this offseason

by Starred4Life on Jul 21, 2007 12:17 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Would most other coaches have handled Tyrus'...
...minutes differently?

The playoffs are a pretty harsh spotlight, and Tyrus still seemed a bit lost out there. I couldn't fathom that he still hadn't learned to get the ball to a guard ASAP on fast breaks. I loved his blocks, but Antoine Walker was positively schooling him getting to the hoop.

Okay, he's a rook and we have to understand that...I suppose we can knock Skiles for not playing him more during the regular season. I blame part of it on chemistry with Wallace. That was a big, expensive acquisition for the team that wasn't looking well under scrutiny early in the season. When your new addition is a moody talent whose ability rests partly on hustle and attitude, it's not good when he's constantly phoning home about being unhappy. This is also probably why Noce at the 4 didn't happen even more often...weren't there a couple of sources that said Big Ben didn't feel as comfortable out there as the only big? Now he has to front the post, now he doesn't have an experienced big (Sheed) alongside him...PJ starting in the frontline probably was the best thing for Big Ben (though maybe not, you'd argue, for the team or for the fans). Tyrus wasn't going to do it. He was raw, uncoordinated, he had no strength. He probably beat out Ben Gordon's per-minute stats on the All-Falling-Down team.

I don't know if any of these are valid reasons and it may sound negative, but it's actually my reason for optimism. I'm hoping Tyrus gets a little stronger, more fundamentally sound, and more offensively polished around the basket and from 12 feet out. But he's not entirely at the mercy of Skiles' whims. He needed to be at least as impressive & productive, (or less embarrassing) than PJ Brown, Malik Allen, etc. last year, and this year it's Joe Smith. If he can do that, I'm thinking (maybe naively) that he'll get more minutes.

by T Maple on Jul 18, 2007 10:16 AM CDT   0 recs

Thomas played 21 minutes against Miami
in 4 games. Walker didn't have time to school him, and a limping Nocioni (as well as Sweetney) shouldn't have seen any time in the postseason.

by hscs on Jul 18, 2007 10:27 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

21 min?
Yikes that's little. No wonder those 2 or 3 possessions (when Antoine got by him to the hoop...isn't he supposed to be content jacking 3s?) stick out in my mind so much.

Agree w/ you about Noc & Sweetney though. Whenever someone questions the desperation of our needing interior scoring, we should remember that Detroit series w/ Sweetney coming onto the court.

by T Maple on Jul 18, 2007 10:41 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I think you forget....
.... Noce's contribution in the Miami series. I didn''t hear anyone complaining when he scored 7 points in 11 seconds at the end of the half in Game 2 (a game changing sequence)?

Here's a little video to refresh your memory...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ab0p22w9tI

by Vangelis on Jul 19, 2007 2:38 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

haha all falling down team
noch, wade, and varejao round out the team

by milesgmsu on Jul 18, 2007 12:45 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

This post
reminds me of this article I just read today

I am not too excited about this roster being "set"

Just Opinions

by Option27 on Jul 18, 2007 10:40 AM CDT   0 recs

there's always the trade deadline
And the Bulls will have some expiring contracts to deal. Plus no matter what PT the youngins get, their value isn't going to sink much.  

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 18, 2007 10:49 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Trade
Smith, Nocioni and Duhon for Gasol? :)

by Mike Aparicio on Jul 19, 2007 12:10 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

2007 5-Man Rotations
This might have already been posted before, but I thought it was useful given the post.  Take a look at this link http://www.82games.com/0607/0607CHI2.HTM.  It shows the various lineups that were used last year and how they did from a +/- to winning percentage.

A few interesting things that may also be obvious. One, dumb starting lineup. Two, don't play Duhon and Hinrich together. Three, good success having Wallace/Deng/Noc/Gordon on the floor at the same time (Duhon and Hinrich were interchangable when placed with these 4).  

by EdNealy on Jul 18, 2007 11:34 AM CDT   0 recs

Wha?
Shouldn't you have looked one spot further down and seen that Tyrus instead of Nocioni is even more productive?
Yes, of course.

by tyger1147 on Jul 18, 2007 3:16 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

ok I read that...
line 3 times.  and it just sounds naughty...

by Lt.Dan on Jul 18, 2007 5:02 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Tyger!!!
I wasn't posting this to prove anything about Nocioni, but simply to show where production came from and didn't.  The TT analysis is tough, because he didn't play many minutes and thus wasn't part of any 5-man rotation that played a lot of minutes.  

When I looked at line-ups playing 50 minutes or more, the 4 that I referenced above, showed a good win % (two 65% and a 56%).

by EdNealy on Jul 18, 2007 3:41 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Thomas played 21 min...
Didn't we win all those games?

Isn't that the idea?

by hhi on Jul 18, 2007 11:48 AM CDT   0 recs

I believe
the 21min was brought up when T Maple said that A. Walker was schooling Tyrus.
The Future is bright!

by Goostafer on Jul 18, 2007 12:00 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Two points.
(1) In light of the fact that we swept the Heat (and that Nocioni made a couple of key plays in games one and two), it is very hard for me to fault Skiles for playing Nocioni in that series;

(2) Tyrus played horrendous basketball against the Heat, especially in games three and four. He was nervous and unfocused, which was to be expected given his reletive youth and inexperience.  

by 1958ChiTown on Jul 18, 2007 12:05 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Excerpt from the e-mail I
just received from the Bulls:

"We are very happy to have Andrés remain a member of our organization. During his three seasons with us, he has played a key role to help change the culture of our team," said Bulls EVP of Basketball Operations John Paxson. "His passion and energy for the game of basketball are second to none, and he has been a key member of our team because of that."

I know Matt loves that.

I assume this is up on Bulls.com as well.

by 1958ChiTown on Jul 18, 2007 12:02 PM CDT   0 recs

why
are you trying to work people up.  You know everyone hates this culture talk.  When i read thing like that i start turning sour too. Andres Nocioni is a good basktball pllayer and your not going to convince me otherwise.

by Sambossanova on Jul 18, 2007 12:15 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

lighten up
who's getting 'worked up'. A few snappy conversations over a blog, big deal.

The culture club stuff is more eye-rolling than infuriating.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 18, 2007 12:25 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I was hoping
for a press conference or something
Just Opinions

by Option27 on Jul 18, 2007 12:30 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

It was really just a minor joke.
I am one of Nocioni's primary defenders here.

I just think it's mildly amusing that Paxson keeps pointing to Nocioni's energy and passion.

by 1958ChiTown on Jul 18, 2007 12:36 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Tyrus
Long-time reader, first-time poster.  I think the most telling comments about Tyrus and his lack of playing time last year came from Skiles when he said that Tyrus had trouble focusing: http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/chi-bulls13jul13,1,2798438.story?coll=chi-sportsnew-hed.  Considering the importance of getting the second seed in the conference with the inane seeding rules, every game was extremely important (if Ben Gordon had gone over that damn screen against the Suns, for instance).  Truthfully, the Bulls could not afford to have Tyrus out there not concentrating or knowing the sets.  In an offense based on movement, one player not knowing where to be throws everything off.  With that said, hopefully the improvement he has shown in summer league play will translate to the season and he can earn his playing time.  If Skiles has shown one thing with his rotation, it's that he will play the players he trusts (not a bad strategy for a coach, actually).

by stevekerrsfloppyhair on Jul 18, 2007 12:52 PM CDT   0 recs

welcome.
I read that too and get what Skiles is saying, but I find that Nocioni makes as many dumb plays as an unfocused Tyrus.

And Gordon...yeah he drifts too. They have to leave him out there though, he's just too good and Duhon's too suck.

The 'trust' thing fails when Skiles trusts bad players.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 18, 2007 1:01 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Add on...
The Bulls don't have variant sets on offense depending on who's on the floor. The line-up determines what plays would be more effective(or what Skiles thinks is more effective).
They run a lot of high screens which leaves guards and forwards away from the basket. Tyrus knows he's ineffective the farther from the basket he is because his shot is not a threat. Since Ben Wallace is the same way it lead to some crowding on the floor and took away from the slashing because they would drift toward the paint on a possesion. You think they care where Wallace is at on offense? I agree you shouldn't be out of position, but with Tyrus out the problem remains that having 'more' perimeter guys on the floor leads to more perimeter shots.
Lower percentage shots, difficulty getting 2nd chance points, and fast breaks for the opposing team are more likely to happen when you rely on outside shots. So yes, Tyrus is out of position at times, based on his instincts to make a play closer to the basket. I see that as a plus because a team then has to be sure to block out which leads to less fast breaks. Besides, he makes up for shaky offense with his tremendous shot-blocking ability.

And somebody explain to me how Tyrus being out of position on an offensive set is worse than one of Ben Gordon's fade-away passes that leads to a fast break? Also, when the offense breaks down on its own and a desperation 3 is shot wouldn't it be better to have Tyrus crash the offensive board?

Just my opinions...

by kingj41 on Jul 18, 2007 1:25 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Tyrus did seem to look
lost at times and I think that the staff did a good job of bringing him along. That said, the guy is 20, with one year of college ball. If he's working as hard as they claim he is, we should see good progression just as we've seen with others.

BTW, I still think about about that Phoenix game, as well as, the loss late in the season to Memphis.  

by EdNealy on Jul 18, 2007 1:11 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

NJ
I was at the NJ game to end the season, my first Bulls game ever and I'm still not happy they came out flat (although NJ did play very well) and lost that game.  Needing only 1 more win there was plenty of opportunities to get that we could point to and I'm sure a few Bulls could have lost, but the last game I think they would have known how important it was and played their best so it kind of was confusing to watch.

by NY Chicago Fan on Jul 18, 2007 1:28 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

That was easily the most disappointing
performance of the regular season.

With one exception, we played terrible basketball against New Jersey all season, twice losing 18 point leads.  

by 1958ChiTown on Jul 18, 2007 1:46 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I remember
Mikki Moore and Jason Kid having the game's of their lives so don't think that NJ didn't know how bad that Bulls wanted a V. They knew and they were also trying to get a batter playoff position.

by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on Jul 18, 2007 1:53 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

as long as we're complaining about Skiles' subbing
...and to balance out my defending him above, I'll just throw in my most peeved substitution of the year: during the last game against the Cavs. You're going to throw a stone-cold Khryapa, who hadn't played in ages, out on the floor to try to handle LeBron? I'm no huge fan of Victor's but that's almost hostility on Skiles' part...to show a player who's boss and to quit complaining about PT.

Not saying that was really the motivation but it bugged me. And it was an important game too.

by T Maple on Jul 18, 2007 1:36 PM CDT   0 recs

couldn't agree more
...I screamed at the TV for what seemed like 20 minutes straight when that happened.  I couldn't believe what I seeing.  I blew a gasket that day.

by ScottieCartwright on Jul 18, 2007 2:14 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Durability and minutes aplenty
I realize that tyrus and noah need minutes to develop, but I don't think that all the wailing and gnashing of teeth over minutes is all that justified when you look at the lineup.

Joe Smith has only averaged 50 games in each of the last two seasons, and has played in less than 75 in all but one of the last 7.  Wallace has issues with his back and is getting up there in age so we can probably expect less than 75 games from him as well.  Noah has the shoulder issue, and although I hope it amounts to nothing, there's at least a chance that he'll require surgery or miss some games regardless.  Noc has the foot problems, plus the way he plays probably makes him likely to miss a few games for injuries.

One positive of the depth in the frontcourt is that it gives us the depth to overcome these things.  I think the season will shake out with plenty of minutes to go around.  hopefully if one or two guys go down the Bulls can weather it without that significant of a drop off, helping us to lock up a high seed.  I really think we have the possibility with this team to get the number one seed in the east, and a big reason is that we'll be able to bring it night in and night out.  Also if there are injuries, the depth allows us to get well rested for when the playoffs start.  

I guess all in all if everyone stays healthy all year there are some valid concerns about the minutes for the 4 and 5 spots, but I just think everyone staying healthy is unrealistic.

by hornhat on Jul 18, 2007 2:01 PM CDT   0 recs

good point
Veektor can ball too.

well, he can rebound the ball.

Either way you're correct that it'll really help lock up a top seed if there's no severe win droughts due to injuries.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 18, 2007 2:05 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Front Court Depth
I feel bad for Viktor. Hes probably an alright player, but on the bulls he is nothing but a scrub to put in at the end of games.  Here's the garbage time star line-up.

Barret
Curry
Griffin
Viktor
Gray

Thats not too shabby.  Good depth.

by Sambossanova on Jul 18, 2007 2:14 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

ya....they might push for 5 wins
although i bet they could still out defend the knicks

by milesgmsu on Jul 18, 2007 8:22 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I love Khryapa
I wish Skiles could have given him more time and not against players like LBJ.

by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on Jul 18, 2007 2:30 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

agreed
Veektor has more to offer than the slightly bigger Malik Allen. His superior AST-r and REB-r would have been nice to see instead of 638 minutes of Malik Allen missing jumpers last season.

by hscs on Jul 18, 2007 2:50 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Krappy
I think the thing that hurt Krappy is that Skiles would rather go bigger to help out Wallace or put in Noc for 3pt shooting

by NY Chicago Fan on Jul 18, 2007 3:23 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

TT
I wished Skiles would have played him much more instead of PJ.  I really became a believer in Tyrus' talent(s) after seeing him play against Detroit during the regular season.  I think we might have had a comfortable lead already, but when Tyrus came into the game the Pistons had no answer for him.  The Pistons started to get physical because his athleticism was embarrassing them(it was more than just fresh legs)(anyone else remember this?).  I was pissed at the lack of PT he got in the Playoffs against the Pistons when he was SOO good against them during the regular season.  Before the series I thought if he played a lot we would have a chance.  We came out flat in the beginning of the series and for all his faults (lack of focus or what not) Tyrus certainly isn't flat, yet minimal pt...  
Sure would like to watch the matchup of Tyrus v. Smith in practice. Hopefully Tyrus wins the starting job.

by Zac23 on Jul 18, 2007 3:49 PM CDT   0 recs

Tyrus will have a hard time beating out Smith for
minutes because Smith (a) commits fewer turnovers; and (b) has a much more consistent jumper. Skiles/Paxson specifically alluded to Smith's jumper when discusssing the rationale for his acquisition. Smith will now be attempting the 8-12 ft. jumpers that PJ took last year. Because of the way the Bulls' offense is designed, that jumper is the primary shot available to our PF, which is exactly why I am concerned that Smith with siphon TT's minutes.

by 1958ChiTown on Jul 18, 2007 3:54 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

strangely enough
Brown's jumper last season actually fell more than Joe Smith's.

Although Smith did significantly better at shooting 'close' shots, so hopefully the hamsters compiling 82games data lead to some leeway when considering what's a jumpshot and what isn't. Or something.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 18, 2007 4:06 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

check out Smith's hotzones
for the Sixers last season. It's a small sample, but Philly's offense is more similar to the Bulls than Denver. Smith does a lot more scoring near the basket than his Minnesota/Milwaukee reputation of sitting on the perimeter lead me to believe.

by hscs on Jul 18, 2007 4:15 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I know it's a crazy small sample
But his clutch eFG% and wins are great, which means to me that he didn't screw things up, and at worst helped the team function in those situations:

http://www.82games.com/0607/06PHI13E.HTM

Get that out of Tyrus' House!!!!

by cubbybear on Jul 18, 2007 4:34 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

and this is an even smaller sample
but out of guys drafted #1 out of Maryland by the w's in 1995 with an insanely common name; he has by far the best jump shot

by milesgmsu on Jul 18, 2007 8:21 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Wouldn't the second team be more potent on offense
with Smith as the second scoring option behind Nocioni.  How many times last year did we see the second team pass the ball around like a hot potato and everyone unwilling to pull the trigger and shoot.

Duhon would stop shooting if he missed his first couple of shots and Sefolosha is inconsistant (he trys too hard to pick up the slack on O). And we don't exactly know what we have with Noah and Gray yet.

Thomas is still progressing and I'm not sure I want to put too much pressure on him to score on the second unit.  Have him start and simply ask him to play good D, hustle, and get easy points in the offense.  Having him start would increase his confidence as well.

by lurak on Jul 18, 2007 4:15 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I don't think there is any chance that Tyrus
will start now that we have signed Smith.

Smith will start, Noce will be first off the bench at PF, Tyrus will be second off the bench.

That's just my opinion. I sincerely hope I am wrong.

by 1958ChiTown on Jul 18, 2007 4:42 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

KC Johnson
was on CTL tonight. They play a game on there called over/under. One of the questions was would Joe Smith have over or under 5 rebounds a game. KC said he will have under because he doesn't see him playing very much. He said he watched Tyrus last week in FL and TT will be playing a lot this next season. He really had a lot of nice things to say about TT.

TT still won't talk to him though. :)

by sue369 on Jul 18, 2007 6:39 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Nocioni's and Smith's contracts
I said it in a post at the time of the first announcement but it bears repeating. Nocioni and Smith's contracts give Paxson trade flexibilty.
If the Bulls do get a chance to add Gasol or Garnett or another effective big in November or February,the Bulls will have to match salaries and Noc's $8.8 Mil & Smith's $5.0 Mil will make it a lot easier to do that.

Gordon would almost certainly be part of any such trade but his salary is only $4.9 Mil and Thomas, Noah & Thabo are $3.5 Mil,$1.8 Mil, & $1.8 Mil respectively.
Add all four of those up and you  total $12 Mil, and you probably already feel you are giving too much. Remember a lot of times you can't get a top talent without taking some teams bad contract with him.

I'm not a big fan of Noc's but he is a productive NBA player who would have gotten $30+ Mil for 5 years from someone, and Joe Smith isn't way overvalued at $5 Mil.

I'm not saying Pax signed them just to have the trade flexibility but I'm sure that entered into his thinking. If an offer does come along the Bulls are in a much better position to match salaries without gutting the team.    

Ye OldeBull

by OldeBull on Jul 18, 2007 4:55 PM CDT   0 recs

that's true
although I think Nocioni's 5 year deal is now the 'bad' contract someone would have to take.

When we're talking about a huge trade maybe it's better to be able to throw in Noc's deal than have nothing in terms of salary (since the Bulls are over the cap anyway). It always seems like there's teams competing for these guys as free agents but they're poison after signing a contract, but Noc probably does have some value around the league.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 18, 2007 6:23 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Sadly it seems
that Noc isn't valued too highly around the league since no significant (sign/trade) offers were there. I thought Pax made his offer so soon because other teams were interested in contacting Noc. Unless other teams backed off due to the offer, Noc is not a hot commodity since he drew absolutely no attention. I think that Memphis' interest was mainly to satisfy Pau which really doesn't help them in a trade involving Pau for Noc & other pieces.

by kingj41 on Jul 19, 2007 8:58 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Interest was complicated by the fact that
you had only a few teams with a lot of space under the cap. Not many big-time deals signed this offseason, but you've seen many teams extend their own the last few years.

by EdNealy on Jul 19, 2007 9:12 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Remember when we were "hoping" to
sign Noce to a contract in order to trade him?

Voila!

by hhi on Jul 18, 2007 7:01 PM CDT   0 recs

Minutes
I'm also concerned about TT, Thabo and Noah's minutes.  I was in the Du upset chorus and still feel Skiles could have given the rookies more minutes.  However, to Skiles credit and highlighted by Matt, Skiles did do a good job developing TT last year.  Skiles was sensitive to TT losing his confidence and did titrate his minutes resulting in TT being a positive factor in big games at the end of the season.  I'm hoping it was explained to Joe Smith that he may have limited minutes to help develop our rookies.

by chgobr on Jul 18, 2007 7:17 PM CDT   0 recs

In an interview
the other day Joe said he didn't care if he came in off the bench or started. He would do whatever they need for him to do.

by sue369 on Jul 18, 2007 7:48 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

pax just blew his load

hope that doesn't get deleted b/c it's pretty funny

by milesgmsu on Jul 18, 2007 8:25 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

wow
Nocioni looks thin! I read he lost 10 pounds and from the picture of him he looks like shaggy. He looks really thin now. Joe Smith says he can get a double team. Nice!

by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on Jul 19, 2007 12:50 AM CDT   0 recs

Noce is progressing.
Did you see that Paxson said he is still high on Vicktor?

"We still have Viktor [Khryapa] in the mix, who didn't play much but is a guy I like a lot. I feel we have a lot of good players on our team."

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/basketball/bulls/cs-070718bulls,1,4081926.story?coll= cs-bulls-headlines

by chgobr on Jul 19, 2007 6:17 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Doesn't matter what Pax thinks.
Well, I wouldn't think too much, anyway. It's up to Skiles to play them.
Yes, of course.

by tyger1147 on Jul 19, 2007 8:47 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs