Saying nice things about a deep and talented roster, for once
When the offseason started, I thought that all indications from Pax were that he was going to sign some offensive-minded frontcourt player as a free agent, or perhaps an even bigger splash via trade. So when he signed Noc I immediately panned it based on that assumption: not only would the Bulls be paying Noc, but also this yet-unnamed 4, and therefore a 5 year deal was going to a 3rd string PF and backup SF in Nocioni.
So now that we know that unnamed signing is Joe Smith, the worries are now less about the roster, but over Skiles and his rotation. Most notably burying Tyrus Thomas and to a lesser extent Joakim Noah. I definitely have misgivings over now not giving Tyrus the minutes he deserves (since there is some evidence that suggest he is still the best PF on the roster), but I think that ship had already sailed when they re-signed Nocioni, figuring someone like Joe Smith would still be on the way.
Ditching Noc (even while signing Smith) would've been sort of a one-step-back-to-make-3-steps-forward later type move, but now that Noc's here and Smith is here, I'm resolved (that's right, resolved! Ok...I'll probably still rip that signing annoyingly often. 5 Years!) to this year not really being about Tyrus and Noah, but winning the Eastern Conference. And I'm resolved to that being a good strategy: this may be Wallace's last very good season left and it's not like the future is mortgaged trying to win with him on board.
There's something to the worry that signing Smith may make the Bulls better now while hurting development for later, and it's not overstating to say that the development of Thomas and Noah are critical. But I think the benefits of making a finals run this season outweigh any possible stunted development. Noah and Tyrus may see fewer minutes, but they'll be important minutes and their skills will definitely be needed. It's not like the organization even knows if Deng/Gordon/Hinrich are really championship material, so making a run right now could teach us all about their future too.
For all the shit he got during last season here (by me, heh), Skiles did a good job bringing Tyrus along last year judging by the way Tyrus responded in important late-game minutes near the end of the season. The problem was after Nocioni came back Skiles went back to playing him over Thomas like that progress meant nothing. Hopefully that doesn't happen again, and this season Tyrus (and Noah) earns minutes and keeps them. After several years of Duhon-love one can never be certain though.While I can't say I was comfortable with the idea of nobody being signed and Tyrus having to carry a heavy minutes load, I'm even more wary imagining visions of Thomas spending a majority of the time on the bench even after he's outperformed his elders.
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81 comments
Comments
What will Skiles Do?
by A Train Afro 53 on Jul 18, 2007 12:31 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Tyrus is a huge part of this team.
by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on Jul 18, 2007 12:37 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Not saying
It is hard to wrap your mind around paying 5-8 mil/yr to guys who'll (hopefully, IMO) probably play no more than 20 mins/game. Having said that I believe guys like Noc and to a lesser extent Smith are essential pieces not just to the Bulls but any contending team. I've waxed poetic before about the importance of the energy that Noc brings to a team, and you can't have enough bigs in the NBA.
I just think Pax and Skiles are a couple of 'the sum of the parts is greater than the whole' (did I butcher that?!) kind of guys, meaning they'll pay--perhaps even overpay--for smaller parts they deem essential.
by Starred4Life on Jul 21, 2007 12:08 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The best thing that...
a.) Tyrus is still not ready to start at the 4 position. Smith will smoothen his transition into the stating lineup over the next 2 years. There is no hurry, TT's development should be done the right way, he has over a decade ahead of him to shine.
b.) Tyrus NEEDS a veteran to mentor him and keep him focused. Joe Smith is ideal for this.
Skiles likes what TT brings to the team and I am confident that he will take care of him. His minutes and contribution to the team will definitely increase this season...
Vangelis
(No 1 fan of the Bulls in Europe??)
by Vangelis on Jul 18, 2007 1:36 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I think
Joe Smith isn't the exact guy I was thinking of to mentor Tyrus.
And according to many reports last year, PJ Brown was the perfect guy for Tyrus.
I just want someone to show him how to give everything he has and to make him comfortable.
by Option27 on Jul 18, 2007 2:37 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I dont get it
by glycen on Jul 18, 2007 6:28 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I like the Noah pick as well
by Option27 on Jul 18, 2007 9:59 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
it's not his pounds that I'm worried about
by ScottieCartwright on Jul 18, 2007 10:14 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think Pax is playing it safe
by Old Skool Sloan on Jul 18, 2007 8:08 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I agree with this
Ya, didn't seem like anything remotely do-able was brewing with the low-post scorers available this offseason
by Starred4Life on Jul 21, 2007 12:17 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Would most other coaches have handled Tyrus'...
The playoffs are a pretty harsh spotlight, and Tyrus still seemed a bit lost out there. I couldn't fathom that he still hadn't learned to get the ball to a guard ASAP on fast breaks. I loved his blocks, but Antoine Walker was positively schooling him getting to the hoop.
Okay, he's a rook and we have to understand that...I suppose we can knock Skiles for not playing him more during the regular season. I blame part of it on chemistry with Wallace. That was a big, expensive acquisition for the team that wasn't looking well under scrutiny early in the season. When your new addition is a moody talent whose ability rests partly on hustle and attitude, it's not good when he's constantly phoning home about being unhappy. This is also probably why Noce at the 4 didn't happen even more often...weren't there a couple of sources that said Big Ben didn't feel as comfortable out there as the only big? Now he has to front the post, now he doesn't have an experienced big (Sheed) alongside him...PJ starting in the frontline probably was the best thing for Big Ben (though maybe not, you'd argue, for the team or for the fans). Tyrus wasn't going to do it. He was raw, uncoordinated, he had no strength. He probably beat out Ben Gordon's per-minute stats on the All-Falling-Down team.
I don't know if any of these are valid reasons and it may sound negative, but it's actually my reason for optimism. I'm hoping Tyrus gets a little stronger, more fundamentally sound, and more offensively polished around the basket and from 12 feet out. But he's not entirely at the mercy of Skiles' whims. He needed to be at least as impressive & productive, (or less embarrassing) than PJ Brown, Malik Allen, etc. last year, and this year it's Joe Smith. If he can do that, I'm thinking (maybe naively) that he'll get more minutes.
by T Maple on Jul 18, 2007 10:16 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Thomas played 21 minutes against Miami
by hscs on Jul 18, 2007 10:27 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
21 min?
Agree w/ you about Noc & Sweetney though. Whenever someone questions the desperation of our needing interior scoring, we should remember that Detroit series w/ Sweetney coming onto the court.
by T Maple on Jul 18, 2007 10:41 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think you forget....
Here's a little video to refresh your memory...
by Vangelis on Jul 19, 2007 2:38 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
haha all falling down team
by milesgmsu on Jul 18, 2007 12:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
This post
I am not too excited about this roster being "set"
by Option27 on Jul 18, 2007 10:40 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
there's always the trade deadline
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 18, 2007 10:49 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Trade
by Mike Aparicio on Jul 19, 2007 12:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
2007 5-Man Rotations
A few interesting things that may also be obvious. One, dumb starting lineup. Two, don't play Duhon and Hinrich together. Three, good success having Wallace/Deng/Noc/Gordon on the floor at the same time (Duhon and Hinrich were interchangable when placed with these 4).
by EdNealy on Jul 18, 2007 11:34 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Wha?
by tyger1147 on Jul 18, 2007 3:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
facts don't EVER get in the way
by hscs on Jul 18, 2007 3:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
ok I read that...
by Lt.Dan on Jul 18, 2007 5:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Tyger!!!
When I looked at line-ups playing 50 minutes or more, the 4 that I referenced above, showed a good win % (two 65% and a 56%).
by EdNealy on Jul 18, 2007 3:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Thomas played 21 min...
Isn't that the idea?
by hhi on Jul 18, 2007 11:48 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Two points.
(2) Tyrus played horrendous basketball against the Heat, especially in games three and four. He was nervous and unfocused, which was to be expected given his reletive youth and inexperience.
by 1958ChiTown on Jul 18, 2007 12:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Excerpt from the e-mail I
"We are very happy to have Andrés remain a member of our organization. During his three seasons with us, he has played a key role to help change the culture of our team," said Bulls EVP of Basketball Operations John Paxson. "His passion and energy for the game of basketball are second to none, and he has been a key member of our team because of that."
I know Matt loves that.
I assume this is up on Bulls.com as well.
by 1958ChiTown on Jul 18, 2007 12:02 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
why
by Sambossanova on Jul 18, 2007 12:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
lighten up
The culture club stuff is more eye-rolling than infuriating.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 18, 2007 12:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was hoping
by Option27 on Jul 18, 2007 12:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It was really just a minor joke.
I just think it's mildly amusing that Paxson keeps pointing to Nocioni's energy and passion.
by 1958ChiTown on Jul 18, 2007 12:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Tyrus
by stevekerrsfloppyhair on Jul 18, 2007 12:52 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
welcome.
And Gordon...yeah he drifts too. They have to leave him out there though, he's just too good and Duhon's too suck.
The 'trust' thing fails when Skiles trusts bad players.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 18, 2007 1:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Love is blind my friend...
by Goostafer on Jul 18, 2007 1:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Add on...
They run a lot of high screens which leaves guards and forwards away from the basket. Tyrus knows he's ineffective the farther from the basket he is because his shot is not a threat. Since Ben Wallace is the same way it lead to some crowding on the floor and took away from the slashing because they would drift toward the paint on a possesion. You think they care where Wallace is at on offense? I agree you shouldn't be out of position, but with Tyrus out the problem remains that having 'more' perimeter guys on the floor leads to more perimeter shots.
Lower percentage shots, difficulty getting 2nd chance points, and fast breaks for the opposing team are more likely to happen when you rely on outside shots. So yes, Tyrus is out of position at times, based on his instincts to make a play closer to the basket. I see that as a plus because a team then has to be sure to block out which leads to less fast breaks. Besides, he makes up for shaky offense with his tremendous shot-blocking ability.
And somebody explain to me how Tyrus being out of position on an offensive set is worse than one of Ben Gordon's fade-away passes that leads to a fast break? Also, when the offense breaks down on its own and a desperation 3 is shot wouldn't it be better to have Tyrus crash the offensive board?
Just my opinions...
by kingj41 on Jul 18, 2007 1:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Tyrus did seem to look
BTW, I still think about about that Phoenix game, as well as, the loss late in the season to Memphis.
by EdNealy on Jul 18, 2007 1:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
NJ
by NY Chicago Fan on Jul 18, 2007 1:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That was easily the most disappointing
With one exception, we played terrible basketball against New Jersey all season, twice losing 18 point leads.
by 1958ChiTown on Jul 18, 2007 1:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I remember
by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on Jul 18, 2007 1:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
as long as we're complaining about Skiles' subbing
Not saying that was really the motivation but it bugged me. And it was an important game too.
by T Maple on Jul 18, 2007 1:36 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
couldn't agree more
by ScottieCartwright on Jul 18, 2007 2:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Durability and minutes aplenty
Joe Smith has only averaged 50 games in each of the last two seasons, and has played in less than 75 in all but one of the last 7. Wallace has issues with his back and is getting up there in age so we can probably expect less than 75 games from him as well. Noah has the shoulder issue, and although I hope it amounts to nothing, there's at least a chance that he'll require surgery or miss some games regardless. Noc has the foot problems, plus the way he plays probably makes him likely to miss a few games for injuries.
One positive of the depth in the frontcourt is that it gives us the depth to overcome these things. I think the season will shake out with plenty of minutes to go around. hopefully if one or two guys go down the Bulls can weather it without that significant of a drop off, helping us to lock up a high seed. I really think we have the possibility with this team to get the number one seed in the east, and a big reason is that we'll be able to bring it night in and night out. Also if there are injuries, the depth allows us to get well rested for when the playoffs start.
I guess all in all if everyone stays healthy all year there are some valid concerns about the minutes for the 4 and 5 spots, but I just think everyone staying healthy is unrealistic.
by hornhat on Jul 18, 2007 2:01 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
good point
well, he can rebound the ball.
Either way you're correct that it'll really help lock up a top seed if there's no severe win droughts due to injuries.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 18, 2007 2:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Front Court Depth
Barret
Curry
Griffin
Viktor
Gray
Thats not too shabby. Good depth.
by Sambossanova on Jul 18, 2007 2:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
ya....they might push for 5 wins
by milesgmsu on Jul 18, 2007 8:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I love Khryapa
by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on Jul 18, 2007 2:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
agreed
by hscs on Jul 18, 2007 2:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Krappy
by NY Chicago Fan on Jul 18, 2007 3:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
TT
Sure would like to watch the matchup of Tyrus v. Smith in practice. Hopefully Tyrus wins the starting job.
by Zac23 on Jul 18, 2007 3:49 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Tyrus will have a hard time beating out Smith for
by 1958ChiTown on Jul 18, 2007 3:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
strangely enough
Although Smith did significantly better at shooting 'close' shots, so hopefully the hamsters compiling 82games data lead to some leeway when considering what's a jumpshot and what isn't. Or something.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 18, 2007 4:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
check out Smith's hotzones
by hscs on Jul 18, 2007 4:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I know it's a crazy small sample
http://www.82games.com/0607/06PHI13E.HTM
by cubbybear on Jul 18, 2007 4:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
and this is an even smaller sample
by milesgmsu on Jul 18, 2007 8:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wouldn't the second team be more potent on offense
Duhon would stop shooting if he missed his first couple of shots and Sefolosha is inconsistant (he trys too hard to pick up the slack on O). And we don't exactly know what we have with Noah and Gray yet.
Thomas is still progressing and I'm not sure I want to put too much pressure on him to score on the second unit. Have him start and simply ask him to play good D, hustle, and get easy points in the offense. Having him start would increase his confidence as well.
by lurak on Jul 18, 2007 4:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think there is any chance that Tyrus
Smith will start, Noce will be first off the bench at PF, Tyrus will be second off the bench.
That's just my opinion. I sincerely hope I am wrong.
by 1958ChiTown on Jul 18, 2007 4:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
KC Johnson
TT still won't talk to him though. :)
by sue369 on Jul 18, 2007 6:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nocioni's and Smith's contracts
If the Bulls do get a chance to add Gasol or Garnett or another effective big in November or February,the Bulls will have to match salaries and Noc's $8.8 Mil & Smith's $5.0 Mil will make it a lot easier to do that.
Gordon would almost certainly be part of any such trade but his salary is only $4.9 Mil and Thomas, Noah & Thabo are $3.5 Mil,$1.8 Mil, & $1.8 Mil respectively.
Add all four of those up and you total $12 Mil, and you probably already feel you are giving too much. Remember a lot of times you can't get a top talent without taking some teams bad contract with him.
I'm not a big fan of Noc's but he is a productive NBA player who would have gotten $30+ Mil for 5 years from someone, and Joe Smith isn't way overvalued at $5 Mil.
I'm not saying Pax signed them just to have the trade flexibility but I'm sure that entered into his thinking. If an offer does come along the Bulls are in a much better position to match salaries without gutting the team.
by OldeBull on Jul 18, 2007 4:55 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
that's true
When we're talking about a huge trade maybe it's better to be able to throw in Noc's deal than have nothing in terms of salary (since the Bulls are over the cap anyway). It always seems like there's teams competing for these guys as free agents but they're poison after signing a contract, but Noc probably does have some value around the league.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 18, 2007 6:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sadly it seems
by kingj41 on Jul 19, 2007 8:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Interest was complicated by the fact that
by EdNealy on Jul 19, 2007 9:12 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Remember when we were "hoping" to
Voila!
by hhi on Jul 18, 2007 7:01 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Minutes
by chgobr on Jul 18, 2007 7:17 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
In an interview
by sue369 on Jul 18, 2007 7:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
pax just blew his load
hope that doesn't get deleted b/c it's pretty funny
by milesgmsu on Jul 18, 2007 8:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
wow
by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on Jul 19, 2007 12:50 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Noce is progressing.
"We still have Viktor [Khryapa] in the mix, who didn't play much but is a guy I like a lot. I feel we have a lot of good players on our team."
by chgobr on Jul 19, 2007 6:17 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Doesn't matter what Pax thinks.
by tyger1147 on Jul 19, 2007 8:47 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dont see how viktor gets any minutes
by haze on Jul 19, 2007 6:50 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Thabo looking
by EdNealy on Jul 19, 2007 9:16 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
John Hollinger's Offseason Winners
by fundamentallysound on Jul 19, 2007 8:59 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Thanks for the heads up.
While not all of these moves were in the teams' best long-term interests ($24 million for Jason Kapono!?!?!?), what I want to do today is focus on how those maneuvers affect each team for this coming season in particular.
by tyger1147 on Jul 19, 2007 10:15 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Joe Smith says
by Option27 on Jul 19, 2007 11:05 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
he had one early in his career
by KT on Jul 21, 2007 6:12 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Difference of opinions
Andres Nocioni re-signs with Chicago ... Unless they pull off an unexpected trade for a big-scoring forward, this signing means they'll make do with a frontline rotation of Ben Wallace, Joe Smith, Tyrus Thomas, Nocioni and rookie Joakim Noah -- with the goal of fast-tracking Thomas into a frontcourt scorer to complement Wallace. Nocioni's contract is moveable if necessary.
Moveable? Seems to disagree with everyone that writes in here
by Option27 on Jul 20, 2007 10:12 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

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