Yearned For Center And Forward Traded To Houston

by hscs on Jul 12, 2007 9:14 PM CDT

[From the Diaries.

This really bites. Not to pull a Bill Simmons, but couldn't a package around Duhon be just as good for San Antonio? (edit: maybe not if the Spurs were literally just wanting to dump salary. Vaseline Spoons will go to Europe and the contract can likely be torn up)

Butler would just be a perk, although I think less about him than I did a year ago as it's usually not a good sign to be cast aside by the Spurs. I also appreciate the dig at the Nocioni signing. 'Bonner's just as good' was my idea! -Matt]

So says Johnny Ludden.

The Spurs have agreed to trade center Jackie Butler and Argentine forward Luis Scola to the Houston Rockets for guard Vassilis Spanoulis, a future second-round pick and cash considerations, an NBA source said Thursday evening.

Houston needed frontline depth, and really didn't give up much for it. Ludden also mentions Matt "Bigger And Does The Same Things As Nocioni" Bonner was resigned by the Spurs for $9 million over 3 years. Note to Pax: that's how much and how long you pay a bench player.

If you're newish Butler was the Blogagbull free agent version of Sene last offseason.

FanPosts are user-created posts from the BlogABull community, and are to be treated as the opinions and views of that particular user, not that of the blogger or blog community as a whole.

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this is complete

shit. WTF how hard could it have been to get that done. Doesn't san antonio need a PG anyways???? WTF!!!!! Who is spanouliki moussaka gyro boy anywyas. I havent even heard of him. Maybe they gave lots of cash. This is making me angry.

by Sambossanova on Jul 12, 2007 10:28 PM CDT 0 recs

I updated the post

Silly Spoons (my nickname for him, anyway) is reportedly going to go to Europe, so the Spurs not only get an 'expiring deal' (like Duhon) but they likely won't even have to pay him.

If avoiding the tax is that important then Duhon wasn't going to be enough. ::shrug::

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 12, 2007 10:32 PM CDT up 0 recs

agreed

I didn't think about how badly the Bulls whiffed on this one when I posted it.

by hscs on Jul 12, 2007 10:35 PM CDT up 0 recs

San Antonio

said no to offers from Chicago and Memphis in the past, and possibly offers from other teams. And I'm pretty sure Pax made an offer now, too.

Does Houston even have a chance of signing Scola? Maybe they'll trade his rights again.

by KT on Jul 12, 2007 11:38 PM CDT up 0 recs

if it was a salary dump

then I can only nod my head in agreement with our host, but I don't know anything about Paxson pursuing Scola. I'm more disappointed that Butler and Scola could have filled the bench for cheap than anything else. I suppose a Peej sign and trade then retire wouldn't have worked.

by hscs on Jul 13, 2007 10:17 AM CDT up 0 recs

Pax was reportedly after Scola

there was a blurb in the Herald this week, and I believe some other nuggets around the web-o-sphere.

At the least we can all now see that Duhon has no value around the league, even as the best backup guard in the league :-). (there's always the trade deadline)

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 13, 2007 10:27 AM CDT up 0 recs

I stand corrected

I always felt Scola was nothing more than the yearnings of the crazies around here. Very few have even seen him play and so on. I just ignored Scola news until I ran across the trade.

by hscs on Jul 13, 2007 10:45 AM CDT up 0 recs

nope

they resigned jacque vaughn. SA didn't want to pay anybody, so the bulls had nobody to offer. If Pax had either thought ahead, or really wanted scola, he would have drafted a foreigner in the second round.

Need new sig

by bullshooter on Jul 12, 2007 11:03 PM CDT up 0 recs

If Pax doesn't make a move to get some frontline

help, I'm going to become a Bucks fan, at least Harris had the balls and took a risk by drafting Yi. Pax is good Gm but he doesn't take chances and for the Bulls to become a true contender he needs to take a chance.

by Wade.Jones on Jul 12, 2007 11:06 PM CDT 0 recs

Paxson

I know maybe he didnt want scola or butler that bad (By the way I think butler is a really good young big man who neds to lose weight, I saw him play some in NY). BUT couldnt he have offered them money and future draft picks. Maybe lots of money. The bulls still have some money left right? Or did Nocioni take all the money we have left??? Duhon is going to make what bonner is going to make next year. and his contract is expiring. Paxson is losing my admiration. I thought he was willing to take calculated risks but he seems to be outright conservative.

by Sambossanova on Jul 12, 2007 11:16 PM CDT 0 recs

I agree

he needs to take chance some will work some wont. Our only chance was to land Scola. Forget Joe Smith hes old. Disapointing offseason

by eross226 on Jul 12, 2007 11:21 PM CDT 0 recs

Bonner

If Matt Bonner got 3 years/$9M, Noce should have gotten Rashard Lewis money! :)

by Mike Aparicio on Jul 13, 2007 12:09 AM CDT 0 recs

Scola

is getting a huge offer to stay in Europe like 10 million Euros which is roughly equal to 14 million dollars. The Spurs are very smart team, if they thought Scola wanted to come stateside do you think they trade him to a Western playoff team? Anyways it is not like he dominated in Europe. He only put up 17-9 over there. I think Sweets or Collison could do that. The more I researched Scola the more I came to the conclusion that he was the Wizard of Oz in our search for a post scorer. The Spurs did a great job using the Scola myth to get them out of Butler's contract.

by LD9 on Jul 13, 2007 12:40 AM CDT 0 recs

Euroleague

I am no expert on Euro Basketball. I am pretty sure he got voted MVP once or twice and that 17 and 9 are top 10 or top 5 in both scoring and rebounding and he is 27 not 32. And I don't think sweetney could do 17 and 9 in europe.

by Sambossanova on Jul 13, 2007 4:25 PM CDT up 0 recs

unless its

brats and gallons of wine

by milesgmsu on Jul 15, 2007 7:44 AM CDT up 0 recs

Can Something Happen

Uhh, is this really gonna be our chicago bulls in the upcoming season? Are we really going into the season as the same ol bulls, with an extra energy guy?? That is how it feels like to me. Joakim Noah... I tried to hype myself up about him after the draft, and sort of did, however...so far i have seen nothing from him. And the more i talk to people about the draft, the more i feel sick.

Most people i have talked to, hate the pick, why Joakim...not that anyone really knows what would have better, but...why Joakim? What can he do? Than theres Aaron gray...i think i am more excited about him than i am of joakim noah...that feels sort of sad.

Sigh,,, maybe not sad...maybe...mediocre? Even my highest hopes wont help, Gray at his best is a...good role player? Curry=Pargo (but taller)? Joakim Noah=Tyson Chandler but smarter (and hyper)?
What does that give us that we didnt have last year....we moved an inch, when we had a foot to go...

Chris Mihm sucks....okay....can we get him so at least we did something rather than just analyze what to do this year...and what is with noch getting moola before gordon or deng....okay fine, sign him...but was 5 years really necessary???? couldnt you have done less, what if he never heals, who would take him.

Jeez...this offseason has been boring as hell, and i dont see what the point of anything we have done was....im so bored.

im trying hard to become the next kirk hinrich, therefore im doing nothing more than being the next chris duhon.

by piccolomair on Jul 13, 2007 3:50 AM CDT 0 recs

Young team is growing

The team is really young and you can expect improvement from the majority of our rotation. To me thats exciting. As for Noah; I dont know how you can be so down on him because he isn't in the summer league. Go to youtube and check out the gator games from the last 2 years. We got our starting PF at #9 in the draft. He is going to be a huge upgrade over PJ brown or Noc or Malik Allen or whoever. I know after the draft not seeing him in live action is frustrating but be patient.

by haze on Jul 13, 2007 7:24 AM CDT up 0 recs

So far so good

I like what Pax has done. Based on the limited summer league play Durant has not looked good, Hawes has been terrible, Yi has been a bust with quirky handlers to deal with. We haven't seen what Noah can do and Gray looks like a great second round pick. Our team will be better because our key guys should all improve next year. Incremental improvement is better than the splashy big trade for KG that guts our team and puts us in the lottery in a few years. TT, Sepho, Deng, Gordon all should be incrementally better. Maybe we overpaid for Noc. A healthy Noc can impact the game off the bench. His signing sends a powerful message to this team. Pax puts his money where his mouth is - team does matter. You get paid if you are a team player. I like that message.

by chgobr on Jul 13, 2007 7:30 AM CDT up 0 recs

not that

Scola, Smith, Mihm, or Moore were going to be that missing championship piece to the puzzle, but any of them still would've provided at least a LITTLE help...now it doesn't look like ANY of them comes here.

I'm not understanding the philosphy here...i'm getting more and more disappointed with this off-season. I haven't totally lost all faith yet, but SOMETHING needs to happen.

I don't think they need to sign someone just to sign a person, but the pieces you need are getting scooped up right in front of you.

by ScottieCartwright on Jul 13, 2007 8:10 AM CDT 0 recs

MLE

Do you really want the Bulls to commit MLE money to one of those guys? What happens two years (months?) from now when they suck and we can't trade them? Pax is playing it smart. There's no one worth the MLE so he'll wait it out and see what the market dictates. It's not like there's a huge bidding war going on for any of those scrubs.

by Mike Aparicio on Jul 13, 2007 3:18 PM CDT up 0 recs

hmmm

I'm just wondering where in my post you read that I wanted Pax to commit the MLE to one of those guys...

I never said that. The implication is that we all know what the need of this team is. And serviceable guys that come close to that need won't even be available pretty soon. Frustration is building that NOBODY will be signed at all.

by ScottieCartwright on Jul 13, 2007 3:56 PM CDT up 0 recs

At least we still have Gordon...

...who scored the 7th most points in the NBA last year!!!

Yes, of course.

by tyger1147 on Jul 13, 2007 8:20 AM CDT 0 recs

and there was great rejoicing

yeah.

by Lt.Dan on Jul 13, 2007 8:43 AM CDT 0 recs

NJ is now targeting

Jamaal Magloire...I didn't think they were that dumb, but apparently they're not too pleased with Moore turning down their offer. I guess if all else fails, Moore still might be available. Not that that makes me do cartwheels, but it's better than nothing, IF it happens.

"We met with Jamaal Magloire, and we might go in that direction," the Nets team president said from Orlando yesterday, when free agents began signing new contracts. "We did not make an offer. This was a fact-finding mission on both parts. But Lawrence (Frank) and I met with him (Tuesday) night, and it went very well. He's a veteran guy who has handled himself well. And as you know, he's a big, tough guy, which our team could use."

http://www.nj.com/starledger/stories/index.ssf?/base/sports-1/118421460832840.xml&coll=1

by ScottieCartwright on Jul 13, 2007 8:50 AM CDT 0 recs

Moore

does nothing for this team but take minutes from Noah and TT. Unless the Bulls acquire a proven low post scorer (which doesn't look like it'll happen), I'd rather see TT and Noah on the court. Not Noc, Moore, Mihm, nor Joe Smith.

by kingj41 on Jul 13, 2007 9:29 AM CDT up 0 recs

we don't even know

that Noah is going to be 100% healthy and ready to play at the start of the season, let alone step into the 4 spot and play significant minutes. TT is showing good flahses in summer league...but well, that's summer league

How many more times are people going to bring up this magical "proven low post scorer" that the Bulls will get??? Who's out there?!?

I didn't say Moore will turn the team around...he's what 32, 33? But at least if they could sign him for 1-2 years for PART of the MLE, that will give us an option.

Maybe you guys have more confidence, but I'm not resting my hopes on Noah.

by ScottieCartwright on Jul 13, 2007 9:54 AM CDT up 0 recs

My response

was more of a sarcastic emphasis that there is not a low post scorer available. For what Moore brings I'd rather have PJ Brown back to go in the rotation.
Thank goodness football is starting soon.

by kingj41 on Jul 13, 2007 10:17 AM CDT up 0 recs

Thomas showed more than flashes

in a full NBA season. Noah should be able to rebound and defend as good as any veteran brought in for a short deal. It isn't about hoping that Noah is going to post anyone up.

by hscs on Jul 13, 2007 10:20 AM CDT up 0 recs

I certainly

never said that Noah was going to post anyone up, so I'm not quite sure where you got that from.

As regards Tyrus, I meant he's shown flashes in addition to what he already showed last season. But come on, it may have been a full NBA season, but most of his minutes were blowout minutes and mop-up time. His role didn't increase until Noce went out.

Even with that being said, I feel a lot more comfortable with TT and some wack role player (Moore, Mihm, Smith) than I would with TT and Noah.

by ScottieCartwright on Jul 13, 2007 10:31 AM CDT up 0 recs

you sure you watched the Bulls last season?

by hscs on Jul 13, 2007 10:41 AM CDT up 0 recs

i'm pretty sure I did

that's funny though...it seems the coach agrees with MY sentiments rather than yours

"When he first got here, he was engaged in about 50 percent of the possessions," coach Scott Skiles said. "He would be off one, on one, off one, on one. So far, in the few days we've been here, and even as the season went on last year, he got much better at that. He's into about 75 percent of the possessions now.

"Whether or not his role increases next season is going to depend on if he can operate on the top-flight players the way he can against second-unit guys," Skiles said. "He had a lot of blowout minutes last season."

by ScottieCartwright on Jul 13, 2007 10:50 AM CDT up 0 recs

That really matters <sarcasm>

Skiles frequently used Thomas and Sefolosha in the first half so they wouldn't just be getting garbage time minutes, and the 28 games Nocioni missed do count.

by hscs on Jul 13, 2007 11:09 AM CDT up 0 recs

TT played

more than blowout minutes and mop-up time.

by sue369 on Jul 13, 2007 10:50 AM CDT up 0 recs

yeah

only AFTER Noce went down...Tyrus did not play big minutes before other injuries happened. As I recall, several people on this board begging, screaming, and pleading for Skiles to use TT more. So you guys are contradicting yourselves? Wait, that's not a surprise really...

by ScottieCartwright on Jul 13, 2007 10:52 AM CDT up 0 recs

Wait

I thought Pax was doing a fantastic job. Didn't we just kill BS because he didn't put Pax on his top 5 list?

Need new sig

by bullshooter on Jul 13, 2007 9:42 AM CDT 0 recs

Things can't change?

Yes, of course.

by tyger1147 on Jul 13, 2007 9:55 AM CDT up 0 recs

This community

certainly is fickle, isn't it...

Need new sig

by bullshooter on Jul 13, 2007 10:50 AM CDT up 0 recs

I don't see why we have to be lemmings

and agree with everything Pax does.

I think he's a very good GM and has done a great job the past few years, but if I think he's making mistakes I'll say as much.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 13, 2007 10:59 AM CDT up 0 recs

Unless

someone else says Pax isn't doing a great job, in which case everybody on here will flame the offender and heap praise on Pax.

Need new sig

by bullshooter on Jul 13, 2007 11:08 AM CDT up 0 recs

Hmm... you're incorrect.

Saying Pax is a horrible GM is one thing.

Questioning his most recent head-scratching moves and pausing to re-evaluate an opinion of him is another.

One is about a larger body of work. The other is about recent, singular actions.

Yes, of course.

by tyger1147 on Jul 13, 2007 12:07 PM CDT up 0 recs

Paxson

It wasn't the summer everyone was hoping for. It is disappointing the post presence like Scola and Randolph were traded for seemingly nothing.

I would agree with an earlier post that Scola has a big money contract offer overseas and the Spurs are being smart trying to get something for him. Paxson might not believe that it was worth it because it would cost a lot of money and probably never happen.

I still have faith in Paxson & Skilles.

Wallace/ Gray
Tyrus/ Noah
Deng/ Noce/
Gordon/ Sef
Kirk/ [Duhon/ Curry]

This is the team, so get used to it. This is the probably the ten man rotation. Addin Grif, Allen, Krap, & maybe Mihm if not Barret to fill out the inactive list. I believe this team will make the Conference Finals or better.

by Jesse07 on Jul 13, 2007 10:16 AM CDT 0 recs

The rotation

The major improvement that can be made with this squad is in the rotations. These are the rotation changes that I would like to see to make this team a contender.

Sefelosha is the first guard off the bench-(give him Duhon's minutes.)
Duhon splits his minutes Curry. Duhon still can be an effective backup that can run the team. His minutes just need to be greatly decreased- (give them Sefolasha's minutes.
Noce is Deng's backup & give him 12 - 18 minutes a game at PF. Noce gives the team flexibility if the young PF get in foul trouble, but having a veteran like Allen coming off the bench on a given night will also help this rotation.
Tyrus - give him PJ's minutes.
Noah - give him Tyrus minutes.

by Jesse07 on Jul 13, 2007 10:29 AM CDT up 0 recs

Are

they on the family talk share plan?

by kingj41 on Jul 13, 2007 10:38 AM CDT up 0 recs

Re: Lineup

Sounds good but I am willing to bet that Noah gets PJs minutes. He will play more than TT becuase of his experience his basketball IQ and his defense.

by haze on Jul 13, 2007 10:40 AM CDT up 0 recs

doesn't Tyrus have more of all 3?

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 13, 2007 10:41 AM CDT up 0 recs

no no and perhaps

by milesgmsu on Jul 13, 2007 12:51 PM CDT up 0 recs

the question is useless

because Tyrus is an NBA player. Noah isn't yet. So he wins out on everything until further notice.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 13, 2007 1:05 PM CDT up 0 recs

TT deserves more

minutes. He plays better D and he can score. Plus he's more experienced. Noah won't get more minutes unless Tyrus is in foul trouble.

by kingj41 on Jul 13, 2007 10:43 AM CDT up 0 recs

It is nice to have the option

of TT or Noah just for the times players are in foul trouble. That is also what having Noce does - he gives you depth for players in foul trouble and injuries. Advantage Bulls! Thank you Paxson!

by chgobr on Jul 13, 2007 11:20 AM CDT up 0 recs

Lets be realistic

Skiles is going to play Noc more than Thomas or Noah, just like how he is going to duhon more than Thabo. I don't now why people believe Skiles is going to change the way he uses the players he trusts.

The worst thing for the development of Thomas, and Noah was the Noc signing. The worst thing for the development of Thabo is not getting rid of Duhon.

Things we will see this season:

Tiny ball lineup with Duhon, Gordon, and Hinrich

Noc playing at the 4 alot more than he should

I would have rather seen the team take a step backward this off season, and not resigned Noc, because it would have thrown Thomas and Noah into the fire, .500 still makes the playoffs in the east, The young guys need almost all the minutes so they can develop.

by Wade.Jones on Jul 13, 2007 11:24 AM CDT up 0 recs

I agree with you about Du

I'd much rather see Thabo develop than Du in the lineup. However, winning the East is a distinct possibility for us this year. Going to the finals and losing would be a great experience for this young team. It would be interesting to see how the players respond to the Finals pressure.

by chgobr on Jul 13, 2007 11:45 AM CDT up 0 recs

so would going to the finals and winning

faith!

by milesgmsu on Jul 13, 2007 12:52 PM CDT up 0 recs

I like your outcome better than mine!!!!!!

by chgobr on Jul 13, 2007 2:30 PM CDT up 0 recs

Second Round picks

Can we please not start plugging Gray and Curry into the rotation just yet? Seems like this happens every summer. Let's take a look at the Bulls second round picks since 2000:

2007 Aaron Gray, JamesOn Curry
2004 Jackson Vroman, Chris Duhon
2003 Mario Austin, Matt Bonner, Tommy Smith
2002 Roger Mason, Lonny Baxter
2001 Trenton Hassell, Sean Lampley
2000 A.J. Guyton, Jake Voskuhl, Khalid El-Amin

Now how many of those guys, outside of Duhon would you want in the rotation on this year's team (based on their rookie production - if they even played in the league)? Most of these guys drop to the second round (and in this year's case, the LATE second round) for a reason.

by Mike Aparicio on Jul 13, 2007 3:35 PM CDT 0 recs

curry

because he has 6 felonies on his record

had curry not had that on his blotter he woulda gone at least 10 picks higher, and possibly in the 1st round

by milesgmsu on Jul 15, 2007 7:46 AM CDT up 0 recs

How many were chose by Paxson/Skiles?

2003, 2004 and 2007. Paxson only had two months to figure out the '03 draft and how they'd fit in for Skiles.

So... Vroman and Duhon.

Bonner just signed a new deal, Vroman turned into Luol Deng and is still in the league. You've included too many guys to make it look bad. 2nd round picks shouldn't be expected to do much. But Paxson's record actually isn't bad.

Yes, of course.

by tyger1147 on Jul 15, 2007 11:13 PM CDT up 0 recs

Vroman and Co.

Vroman is a bum. Bonner didn't even play in the league the season he was drafted. I'm talking about reasonable expectations for a rookie drafted in the second round. Not what players they were traded for or how much they produced four years later. The point is there are generally a lot more guys drafted in the second round who are lucky to make it to the league, much less get paid to sit on the end of the bench, and even fewer who become rotation players. Neither Curry nor Gray are likely to contribute enough to pass up Duhon/Sefolosha or Smith/Thomas/Noah in the rotation this season.

by Mike Aparicio on Jul 16, 2007 3:23 PM CDT up 0 recs