Make room for Joakim Noah?

It's not the worst scenario possible

But they can't draft Noah and keep Nocioni. Too much 'passion', not enough 'good at basketball'.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jun 19, 2007 9:45 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

at least Nocioni can score

I do see a potential problem with Thomas and Noah reflecting the Duhon and Gordon situation. I wouldn't be happy about that.

by Paxson Jackson on Jun 19, 2007 9:50 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

egads

good point on Skiles

I do think Noah has the height to defend the 5 right away...which does give him potential minutes that wouldn't overlap with Tyrus.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jun 19, 2007 10:00 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

if Nocioni sticks around

that's too much try-hardiness for Skiles not to bury Thomas. Power forward could be scary next season.

by Paxson Jackson on Jun 19, 2007 10:08 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

You two just love to bag on the hustle players

together. Its kind of cute watching you. Like little kids playing with toys in the sandbox.

On the other hand,

if, like me, you believe Thomas has the ability to develop a midrange jumpshot and a few post moves,

and if, like me, you believe Noah is actually a good athlete despite his ugly looking (but not entirely terrible) jumpshot, and that he will be able to develop a midrange jumpshot and polish his post moves,

and if, like me, you think Deng will develop a post game (which we will likely see some of next season),

then you potentially have a future frontcourt of 7', 6'9", 6'9", all athletic, all good defenders, all with the ability to finish around the basket, all with a midrange jumpshot. That is a frontcourt that will run all day. I really don't think that's the worst of all worlds by any stretch.

Draft pick rodeo -- Yi Hawes!

by preverbal on Jun 19, 2007 10:27 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

if, like you...

I assume Nocioni won't be around, then yeah that frontcourt is fine.

The 'problem' is Skiles potentially burying Thomas, which you didn't address at all.

Anyway, I'm warming up to Noah. At the very least he can catch and finish. And pass a bit too.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jun 19, 2007 10:33 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

No, you're right

I didn't address burying Thomas. Do you think Thomas starts next year?

I was just giving a shout out to a potentially good frontcourt, and busting some chops.

Hopefully, if Noah is on board, he takes 25% of the 4 and 25% of the 5 by midseason, or something along those lines (assuming Thomas is getting the rest of the 4 minutes).

It does raise the question of how Noc fits in (if at all).

Draft pick rodeo -- Yi Hawes!

by preverbal on Jun 19, 2007 10:41 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

can't

we just hope that Noah takes PJ's minutes and that brown, noc and du get sent out for a decent vet/pick?

by CookDing on Jun 19, 2007 12:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'm cooling off...

to Noah. Someone up above said to trade for Anderson Varejao and pick Noah. Huh?? To ME, those two are the same exact type of player. You said it best above with your Nocioni comment, it would be an overload on passion, desire, and hunger...but where's the talent??

I don't have anything against the kid, but I just don't think he's right for this team. I don't see any place where he could come in and help right away.

by ScottieCartwright on Jun 19, 2007 11:02 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

He has

boatloads more experience than the other two big men we are considering which, in theory, translates to quicker contributions next season.

by CookDing on Jun 19, 2007 12:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I don't like Noah very much, but...

Paxson has tried to establish a good college lineage with all his players. I think Washington vs. Billy Donovan and two National Titles is a big difference. Then again, any rumors coming out of the Bulls organization are possbly interference, and more likely to be wrong than right, IMHO.

I don't hate the pick, but I have a feeling that Paxson wants Jeff Green or Yi. Frankly, if my team wasn't CHI or GSW, I would be scared to take Yi because China can be difficult to compromise with.

Like a proud papa...

by cubbybear on Jun 19, 2007 1:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

They would have alot of personality on that team.

they would have to produce the Noah wig to go with the Wallace fro. I kinda like Joakim as a Bull. Yeah he's not the inside scorer they need but I don't think you'll really get that in this draft. Tyrus needs to develope some post moves. I think he should be watching some old Hakeem clips. Speaking of.....http://www.nba.com/rockets/news/Yao_gets_first_tutorial_with_O-226053-34.html how stiff does Yao look?

Tim Duncan is a robot!

by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on Jun 19, 2007 10:01 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever

I agree, also the Bulls should hire the Dream as an assistant coach. At least for one year to mentor Tyrus and the next Big (maybe Noah). Pax can give him a assistant coach offer that he can't refuse. Now how would Skiles's big ego handle this type of situation when an All-Star bigs Coach comes in to help the bigs to become offensive minded?

by exult463 on Jun 19, 2007 1:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

why would hakeem want to?

he's doing humanitarian work in Africa...plus his loyalites lie elsewhere....

Why not artis gilmore?

by milesgmsu on Jun 19, 2007 5:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I love Artis Gilmore

He was my favorite Bull when I was a kid. His 'fro was THE 'fro (maybe in a tie with Dr. J). And he may need the work to pay down his legal bills.
http://www.firstcoastnews.com/news/mostpopular/news-article.aspx?storyid=57756&provider=top

Draft pick rodeo -- Yi Hawes!

by preverbal on Jun 19, 2007 5:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Kareem is working with Bynum, I'm sure he'll

be a hall of famer any day now. Tyrus would fall on his face trying to do the dream shake. If your going to go down this tired path of getting player X to teach player Y post moves then get a player that actually can teach. Steal Clifford Ray from Boston who according to Celtics fans has worked wonders with Al Jefferson, and he's gets bonus points for being a former Bull too.

by Scotter on Jun 19, 2007 5:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Maybe Artis CAN coach . . .

http://www.nba.com/bulls/history/qa_with_artisgilmore.html

Q: Did you think about going into coaching?

Gilmore: I thought about it, but I guess I waited too long. Before, initially I didn't want to do that kind of traveling again, but thought about, I really wanted to get back into it. But I guess I waited to long because it's hard to create interest from other sources in the league. They don't seem to have the interest. It's not like I can walk in back in there and get a coaching job. I gave it a shot.

Q: What do you plan to do down the line?

Gilmore: Just continue to create an environment for my family. And beyond that I'm content. I have a daughter that plays for Division I Louisiana Tech. Her name is Priya Gilmore. She's a junior. (I get to see) a couple of games, not nearly as many as I'd like. She about almost 6-3, plays center. We work together.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Draft pick rodeo -- Yi Hawes!

by preverbal on Jun 19, 2007 5:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

It wouldn't be a problem.

Actually Skiles allows his assistants a lot of freedom. I can't remember where the article is but the assistants praised Skiles for letting them coach and prepare gameplans. Skiles who was an assistant under Ainge was allowed the same liberties and feels its the proper way to coach.

"If you're not going to compete, then I'll dominate you." MJ

by Rankdog on Jun 19, 2007 5:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Originally in the Trib,

http://www.topix.net/content/trb/2147080631024447379020579316883227413503

"They had me do a psychology test and I asked Coach Skiles if that affected his coaching. He laughed and said, `No way.'" (Joakim Noah)

by wjb1492 on Jun 19, 2007 6:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Thank you!

Yes this is the article I was refering to.

"If you're not going to compete, then I'll dominate you." MJ

by Rankdog on Jun 19, 2007 6:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

You're welcome. :)

I remembered that one because it was one of the few behind-the-scenes type of articles recently, and I like to read those.

"They had me do a psychology test and I asked Coach Skiles if that affected his coaching. He laughed and said, `No way.'" (Joakim Noah)

by wjb1492 on Jun 19, 2007 9:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Joakim's father

Yannick, ex star tennis player, is known as one of the master motivators in sports. He lead France to the win over the US at the Davis Cup (not playing, as the captain) even when the US were heavily favored to take it home (with Sampras, etc).
He just motivated and conditioned (the mind) his players so well that they made the upset.
If Joakim has half the sport intelligence and capacity to lead his teammates that his father had (and still has), then he's indeed a great team consolidator (as Ian THomsen implies in his SI article).
Now, basketball and skill wise, I have never seen Joakim play, so I don't know.

The Game chose him !

by Diabolo on Jun 19, 2007 11:25 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Anderson Varejao

The Bulls should sign and trade PJ Brown for Anderson Varejao. Imagine a frontline of Noah, Varejao, Thomas and Wallace: NBA's All-Hustle team. At least the Bulls will have some identity in this league. They were know as the Baby Bulls for so long and it's time to shed that label and show the NBA that they can win with pure hustle.

by Kantut on Jun 19, 2007 10:09 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Andres Nocioni

Don't forget to resign Noce!

by Kantut on Jun 19, 2007 10:10 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I love how ESPN News reports the Kobe Video

and only mentions that he's saying the same thing. ( ripping the Lakers) What about when he says get your Chicago Bulls uniforms fella's? Is that not News worthy? I find that odd how they don't even mention that. By the way they are selling the video for $1.99 but won't release it until they reach like 50,000.

Tim Duncan is a robot!

by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on Jun 19, 2007 10:12 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Well

According to everyone that knows about it, that quote just was heard on audio. There is no video to support validity, I guess.

The only Yi Jianlian fan here

by Option27 on Jun 19, 2007 10:17 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Good point but I still think its worth noting.

Worldwide leader in sports.

Oh my god! I think Pippen's nuts went right in Ewings face on that one!!!

by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on Jun 19, 2007 10:18 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

SI take on Noah

I continue to have mixed feelings about Jo Noah. He gets a lot of scrutiny because he's been in the public eye for so long. Were Yi, Brandan Wright, Conley or Hawes (all freshmen/international) so thoroughly evaluated, I'm sure that their stocks would fall as well.

Noah's championship experiences at Florida will earn him bonus points (see Previous championship experience) with Paxson.

Ian Thomsen at SI has an article up on Noah:

The important thing with Noah is to focus on his good qualities, the most convincing of them being his skills as a passer. His believers describe Noah as one of the smartest players in the draft. Knowing his limitations better than anybody, he will pursue his strengths as a point man in the frontcourt, a rebounder and a garbageman around the basket. Any team in possession of a big-man scorer would do well to pair him with Noah, who will selflessly feed his teammates much as he did for Al Horford and others at Florida.

Noah's upside is tremendous. He'll block shots, harass bigger opponents and run the floor as many teams yearn to do. Don't think his shooting stroke won't improve: He's one of the hardest-working players in this draft, and though he'll never have three-point range, he'll surely upgrade his release in a fundamental way.

Most impressive is that Noah is the rarest of draftable commodities: a mature grown-up who will have the easiest transition to the NBA after enduring criticism as his stock fell over the past year. Even as he plummeted, Noah maintained his focus on winning the championship; a lesser character would have gone selfish and tried to prove that he could indeed be a scorer at the expense of his team's larger goal. Noah is the Shane Battier of this draft.

If an NBA team is looking to bring in a go-to scorer, then drafting Noah will be a mistake. But for a team that has its act together, that has a few scoring pieces but needs glue to fit them together, Noah is the answer.

by paxson43 on Jun 19, 2007 10:38 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

I think Noah works

The more I think about it the more I like it.

While the Bulls don't have the "big-man scorer" mentioned in the article, they do have TT who can certainly finish at the basket, and they do have a great slasher in Deng. I think Noah as a post facilitator could work well.

Draft pick rodeo -- Yi Hawes!

by preverbal on Jun 19, 2007 10:46 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Dunzo

Pre, you and I should call Pax right now and let him know our final decision.

by paxson43 on Jun 19, 2007 10:49 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I have him on speed dial

Funny, he never answers though.

Draft pick rodeo -- Yi Hawes!

by preverbal on Jun 19, 2007 10:50 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Noah?

What happend to our guy Hawes?

by TT 4 Prez on Jun 19, 2007 10:52 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Victim of being flavor of the second

Give us a couple more hours... we'll cycle back to Hawes.

by paxson43 on Jun 19, 2007 11:05 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Rumored

to be going at 7 for Minny.

The Game chose him !

by Diabolo on Jun 19, 2007 11:19 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

well...

nobody really knows if Hawes can play. If he can then I agree he should be the guy. If he's that much of a project I'm ok with taking Noah. It's not like Noah's a finished product either.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jun 19, 2007 11:31 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

the lack of a "big-man scorer"

is, unfortunately, a huge problem. Wastching the Bulls last year, I never got the impression they needed more tough defense, rebounding, or hustle. They need a guy who can score from the low post, and attract double-teams to open up Hinrich, Gordon, and Deng.

I don't think Noah is really ready to be a low-post scoring threat. I don't think he'd be a complete disaster. Certainly, we have to consider who's going to be available - the best low post guys (Oden, Horford, Brandan Wright) will likely be gone. He would bring something to the table.

But I would question stockpiling useful pieces, all of whom can do some things well, have some skills, and have the right attitude, but none of whom addresses the Bulls one glaring need.

by Bayern Munich on Jun 19, 2007 11:25 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

we acknowledge Noah doesn't fit that need

There's still trades and free agency.

Noah still can do things offensively that work for the Bulls: run, catch, finish, pass.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jun 19, 2007 11:29 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

agreed

and, as I said, he wouldn't be a complete disaster.

I think they'll troll for KG, JermaineO, Gasol offers and see if they can get someone on the cheap. If not, they take the best big available at the 9. If Paxson thinks Noah's it, my (insignificant) opinion is that I'm OK with that. Noah and Ben Wallace as starters, with Tyrus getting major minutes off the bench - combined with a good backcourt, that could be a contender, if some guys develop as we hope.

But you have to admit - the biggest hole in the Bulls offense (lack of solid low-post forward/center) would still be there.

by Bayern Munich on Jun 19, 2007 12:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

one quibble with that

"a mature grown-up"

Not that I know too much about him, but on the surface he seems more of a "preening jackass". I guess those qualities don't have to be mutually exclusive though.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jun 19, 2007 10:52 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Agreed

This certainly makes him sound like a jackass.

by paxson43 on Jun 19, 2007 11:04 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

He's just messing with the media.

I think it's good for the NBA to have people like JN. You need characters. I think he's funny. Atleast he's a good quote. Im sure he'll be a villian in most people's eyes. Maybe like Rodman or Barkley.

Oh my god! I think Pippen's nuts went right in Ewings face on that one!!!

by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on Jun 19, 2007 11:19 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think he's funny, too

Certainly outspoken, but maybe that wouldn't be such a bad thing in a lockerroom full of guys that don't really seem to want the attention. I've never heard him questioned as being a bad teammate, which is the sort of preening jackass type that I usually dislike.

"They had me do a psychology test and I asked Coach Skiles if that affected his coaching. He laughed and said, `No way.'" (Joakim Noah)

by wjb1492 on Jun 19, 2007 11:50 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

yeah

I do cringe a bit when I see him pulling that "Rambo Yell" stunt after each play. Of course, one positive is we get to watch him do that to other teams and watch their fans grumble.
And preening jackass-acisms worked pretty well for this Rodman. ..especially when Malone came to town.

by CookDing on Jun 19, 2007 12:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

wow ESPN mock draft 4.0 has Bulls taking Yi

Noah going to Bobcats. They just put it up like a second ago.

Oh my god! I think Pippen's nuts went right in Ewings face on that one!!!

by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on Jun 19, 2007 11:23 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

New top 10

1.Oden
2.Durant
3.Horford
4.Conley
5.Brewer
6.Wright
7.Green
8.Noah
9.Yi
10.Hawes

Oh my god! I think Pippen's nuts went right in Ewings face on that one!!!

by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on Jun 19, 2007 11:26 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

yessir

The Bulls are looking big and will decide between Yi, Noah and Hawes. In the past, GM John Paxson hasn't been much of a gambler, usually going with players from proven schools instead.

But Yi is intriguing enough here that Paxson probably has to pull the trigger. Yi prefers to face the basket, but his size and athleticism would be a great fit in Chicago.

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/draft2007/insider/columns/story?columnist=ford_chad&page=MockDraf t-070619b

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jun 19, 2007 11:27 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

That's surprising

Despite Yi being Chad Ford's man-crush, it looks like Yi's agent's attempts to protect his client has backfired. I'm not an Insider; does Ford talk anymore about why Yi is expected to fall so far? A week ago he was gone by 5.

by paxson43 on Jun 19, 2007 11:44 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

How has it backfired?

According to reports, Yi only wanted to go to GS or Chicago.

by 1958ChiTown on Jun 19, 2007 11:50 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Like butter

This plan has worked perfectly.

In addition, both of those teams are two of the better young teams in the NBA. It's no coincidence that those are the teams he wants to play for.

Like a proud papa...

by cubbybear on Jun 19, 2007 1:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

his age

is playing a big part in it to. He's either 19 or 25 depending on who you listen to.

by LD9 on Jun 19, 2007 3:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

It's all working out perfectly!

The only Yi Jianlian fan here

by Option27 on Jun 19, 2007 2:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

The Bulls are a sh*tty offensive team.

Why would we add another sh*tty offensive player?

The writing was on the wall when Paxosn started referring to Noah as a "winner."

by 1958ChiTown on Jun 19, 2007 11:29 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

P.S. Aren't the Bulls trading for Kobe, anyway? :)

by 1958ChiTown on Jun 19, 2007 11:31 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

who's the magic offensive bullet?

It's not in this draft.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jun 19, 2007 11:32 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Well, I can certainly name several players who

would be far more productive than Noah on offense.

Yi, for example. Green. Even Hawes would probably score more, though I don't particularly like him as the nine pick.

Noah is another athletic, interior defender with minimal offensive skills. The BUlls already have two of those.

I suppose if the Bulls traded for scoring, the pick would be OK.

by 1958ChiTown on Jun 19, 2007 11:37 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

you and Kevin McHale

are selling me on Noah.

by Paxson Jackson on Jun 19, 2007 11:42 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

You're truly inane.

by 1958ChiTown on Jun 19, 2007 11:44 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

and your surface tickling

analysis of Noah, Thomas, and Wallace is supposed to convince me that even more unknown prospects improve the offense? One tall player fills the need for a tall player no matter what their skills are. I'll settle for anyone who can contribute, and it's probable no one is going to make much of an impact.

If McHale is sold on Hawes (speculation), I don't like Hawes. Billy Knight drafts better than McHale for crying out loud.

by Paxson Jackson on Jun 19, 2007 11:56 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

McHale just doesn't draft;.

he'd rather forfeit the picks. But, I agree what little track record he has in the lottery isn't great. But if McHale could get anything right, I think it would be evaluating a post player.

by Scotter on Jun 19, 2007 12:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

If the Bulls just needed a tall guy,

they could retrieve Big Marty from the neurology ward of Vilnius Hospital.

They need a big guy who can score.

And like everyone else, I have to rely on publicly available information and scouting reports on the draft prospects. According to that publicly available information, the consensus is that Noah isn't a good offensive player, whereas Yi is.

by 1958ChiTown on Jun 19, 2007 12:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

if they needed a big guy who can score

they can keep Mike Sweetney. They need a big guy who can score and can play.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jun 19, 2007 12:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

When I said "score,"

I didn't mean "throw in a single basket before becoming winded, falling down behind the basket, and suffering a myocardial infarction on the lap of one of the Lovabulls."

Sweets isn't exactly a 20+ scoring threat on a nightly basis.

It would be nice to see what that guy could do if he actually got in shape for just one season, though.

by 1958ChiTown on Jun 19, 2007 12:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

appreciate the 'sweets is fat' joke

but that's my point: Sweetney has the skills to score but can't play. You can potentially say the same about Yi and Hawes. If they can't contribute the height and skills are useless.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jun 19, 2007 12:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I am not entirely opposed to Noah.

I just think his skills are redundant, given our current roster.

That being said, from an overall perspective, Noah is probably the third most attractive option for the Bulls (behind Yi and Brewer, both of whom will likely be gone at 9).

by 1958ChiTown on Jun 19, 2007 1:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

yes it's redundant

but maybe that's good in a way. You can plug in Wallace, Tyrus, Noah and get little dropoff in the rebounding and defense.

Anyway...to qualify what I'm saying: I hope that Hawes is ready and that Pax drafts him. I'm just saying if Pax determines he isn't ready (and not really close) I don't mind having someone like Noah, who is at least also tall :-)

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jun 19, 2007 1:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

nothing wrong with

the status quo (if Noah can play). Ben Wallace could get some Antonio Davis vacation trips out of it too. I think a lot of people should start recognizing that, excluding the potential within Yi's 32 year old body, a solid backup player is probably the most the Bulls could get with 9.

by Paxson Jackson on Jun 19, 2007 1:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

that wasn't really my point

a solid backup player - meaning a guy who does some of the same stuff as players currently starting, and not a franchise savior.

by Paxson Jackson on Jun 19, 2007 1:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

you might get little dropoff

in the rebounding and defense dept...but you would get ZERO input in scoring and offense (with the exception of Ty).

The game is still about scoring points...I would like to think that Noah wouldn't be drafted just for his "desire", "energy", and "passion". I would hope that he could give them some fluff baskets every now and then...I don't see it though.

With that being said, I really don't see him stopping too much of anyone down low either. I'd be more comfortable with Hawes or Yi.

Even if they couldn't stop anyone, they could at the very least score a few buckets for you (aka Gordon). Noah on the other hand doesn't seem ready to do either.

by ScottieCartwright on Jun 19, 2007 2:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

hang on

did you say that we "might get little dropoff" on defense and that later say you didn't see him stopping anyone defensively? Maybe I didn't read that correctly.

by CookDing on Jun 19, 2007 2:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I was saying

"little dropoff" in quoting Matt's response. That wasn't necessarily MY thoughts about him. What you read was correct. I don't see him stopping anyone.

by ScottieCartwright on Jun 19, 2007 2:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

uhhh

do you realize that Juwan Howard, Austin Croshere and Primoz Brezec are all gainfully employeed by NBA teams?
Just kidding.

by CookDing on Jun 19, 2007 2:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

lol

touche'...point taken :-)

by ScottieCartwright on Jun 19, 2007 2:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Phew, that's a relief

Let's go ahead and let Pax know. I'd say Noah is closer to the 9-11 range on the Bulls list of options, behind Oden, Horford, Wright, KG, Gasol, Chamberlain, Gilmore,... Unfortunately, when the Bulls draft, those guys will be unavailable, or dead.

And with the 9th pick the Bulls select...

by bullshooter on Jun 19, 2007 1:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Is Hakeem Available?

Marty and him could compete for the spot.

Like a proud papa...

by cubbybear on Jun 19, 2007 1:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I meant a realistic option...

I was already pushing the limits of reality when I included Brewer, but there is at least a small chance we could move up and snag him.

By contrast, getting Oden or Horford is probably impossible.

Eliminating modest trades to move down a couple of spots, the Bulls are likely going to choose from Yi (potentially), Noah, and Hawes.

Of those, I like Yi. Even Paxson has stated that Yi possesses the ability to score the ball, based on what Paxson saw on his scouting trip to China. The next best option, IMO, is Noah.

by 1958ChiTown on Jun 19, 2007 1:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

also, it may be nice

if Noah and Tyrus (and Wallace) were truly redundant, then it gives Pax freedom to trade one of them without having to replace those skills.

For instance if Memphis buckled from asking for Deng and 'settled' on Tyrus, the Bulls could have Noah as the new backup big behind Gasol/Wallace.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jun 19, 2007 4:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I was thinking the same thing myself.

I wonder if Paxson might draft Noah as a replacement for Tyrus, should the Bulls trade the latter.

Alternatively, I suppose they could trade Noah and keep Tyrus, though Noah doesn't have any NBA experience under his belt.

by 1958ChiTown on Jun 19, 2007 5:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

if we're at 80 points and sweets is on the floor

he'll score 20 straight

by milesgmsu on Jun 19, 2007 5:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

the logic being

A big who can play well, even if he isn't a scorer, is better than a big who can't do anything. And size is surely a need for the Bulls. If that wasn't clear, I apologize.

Yi is an unknown, with a perimeter game that has not translated for many sweet shooting bigs, and McHale might like Hawes. It's all publicly available information.

by Paxson Jackson on Jun 19, 2007 12:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

missing pieces

While Noah's shooting mechs still read "under construction" and he has virtually no back to the basket game, it's not entirely accurate to say that he has no offensive game. He is an exceptional passer (watch footage of Horford in the post and 80% of his feeds will come courtesy of Noah), a great ball handler and very quick on the drive. ...all of which add to an offensive game.
I think anybody would agree that the Bulls most glaring need is a post player you can dump it into and let him go to work. Unfortunately, there's no player outside of the top three that can reasonably be expected to do that. Hawes is underatheletic, young, unproven and has shown signs of fraility; Yi is unproven, inexperienced and seems more like a slasher than back-to-basket/banger scorer; Jason Smith is inexperienced, poorly coached and has admitted that he didn't take basketball seriously until very recently.
Noah is flawed, but so are our other options.

by CookDing on Jun 19, 2007 1:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Noah benifit

Good news with Noah is that he could possible fill in for both the C Wallace and PF Thomas roles off the bench and be groomed to replace Wallace in future. In 3 years when Wallace on way out Noah might have improved his offense and he already seems to be decent passer and ball handler by most accounts.

I admit I wasn't big on Noah before but if Pax doesn't see anyone at 9 who will be big post presence on offense the next 2 years why not get another young guy who will continue the Bulls defensive energy and fit in with team play off the bench.

If Bulls get offensive improvement from Thomas and Thabo and more consistency from Deng / Gordon / Hinrich they should be battling for Easter Conf title.

9 man rotation (no mins for Duhon with Gordon and Hinrich at same time)

Wallace/Noah
Thomas/Noc/Noah
Deng/Noc/Thabo
Gordon/Thabo
Hinrich/Duhon/Thabo

Obviously once Noc/Deng/Gordon next contracts kick in it will be easier to match salaries for future trades and gives Bulls another year to see what they have in Thomas/Thabo before making radical changes to core

by NY Chicago Fan on Jun 19, 2007 3:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

That's one of the things I do like about Noah.

Hawes and Noah are actually have a lot in common. Both began playing as guards, are very good ball handlers and passers for their size, need to add strenth, and both would fill that hole at C/PF in an 8 man rotation.

by Scotter on Jun 19, 2007 4:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I've been reading for a while now.

My Opinion is if the Pick is not packaged in some way to bring in a big, (or Kobe) then drafting any of those 3 guys (Yi, Hawes, Noah) would be fine by me, but only if a free agent like Magloire can be brought in. Noce and Duh should be traded to either get more 2nd rounders or someone else who can help. That'll help free up PT for TT.

The Future is bright!

by Goostafer on Jun 19, 2007 4:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Best GM in sports.

Like a proud papa...

by cubbybear on Jun 19, 2007 1:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

yeabut

nobody knows anything about Yi, especially here.

Granted this is all speculation anyway so it's hard to pick what is known and not, but I'll say I have enough confident in Pax to assume that if he takes Noah ahead of Hawes or Yi it'll mean he thinks they're nowhere near ready to be the low-post scorer either.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jun 19, 2007 11:50 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Veiled in the "can help now" comments...

...are the implications that he's more of a "known". Rarely is anyone completely known in a draft, but there are degrees. Noah may never be an All-Star while Hawes may be 20-10 center. But I think the potential for the pick being a complete bust has to play on Pax's mind.

If he can't remove most of the doubt from his own mind about Yi or Hawes before the draft, it makes sense to draft Noah. For me, I'd like for him to take that chance, but then, my career won't matter because of it.

I think there's zero chance of Noah being a complete bust, and as you've said, scoring can be had in other ways (potentially). For me, I know Noah will improve this team, if only a little, but I just don't think it will be as much Hawes or Yi could.

I know none of that makes sense. Sorry about that.

Yes, of course.

by tyger1147 on Jun 19, 2007 12:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I would say they are shitty but

they could use more inside prduction. If they can get that they could be scary. Yi makes sense. He seems like he could help right away and give you (some) inside scoring.

Stern: You need LA, NY, Boston and Chicago back on top.

by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on Jun 19, 2007 11:33 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I wouldn't say shitty is what I ment.

Stern: You need LA, NY, Boston and Chicago back on top.

by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on Jun 19, 2007 11:34 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Looks like they have Sean Williams moving up

to 17 by the Nets.

Stern: You need LA, NY, Boston and Chicago back on top.

by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on Jun 19, 2007 11:37 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Noah and the bulls

I don't hate Noah by any means and I think he will be a good serviceable big man who could fit nicely with the bulls. But the bulls need anything to take off scoring pressure from the backcourt/outside shooters, within the shortest period of time. Assuming that Deng, Thomas and Noah will develop an offensive game inside is a bit risky. I would be a lot more comfortable assuming that Hawes, Yi or Green, as opposed to thomas or noah, would be able to develop an inside game and get easier shots inside. My preference would be trade for Scola's rights...

And I also have an irrational feel that Noah is the MOrrison of this draft. Full of passion and smart great college player who is going to have a tough time in the NBA. I know, totally different type of player, maybe its the long hair.

by Sambossanova on Jun 19, 2007 11:37 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

I think I'd worry more about Hawes being

the Bulls' version of Morrison, simply based on being drafted with the expectations of an offensive game to provide scoring and not being known for defensive ability even at the college level.

"They had me do a psychology test and I asked Coach Skiles if that affected his coaching. He laughed and said, `No way.'" (Joakim Noah)

by wjb1492 on Jun 19, 2007 11:54 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

morrison was not a great he player

remeber; gonzaga never did anything wiht him leading the team, he scored 25 playing against schools with a smaller enrollment than my subruban hs, and he couldn't defend said small schools

by milesgmsu on Jun 19, 2007 5:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

huh?

he led them to the sweet sixteen his last year there, which is still a big deal. They lost to the 2 seed UCLA by 2 points. I also remember the zags beating MSU in the Maui tournament, which was an upset at the time, IIRC. So basically, I am calling bs on your post....

And with the 9th pick the Bulls select...

by bullshooter on Jun 19, 2007 9:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Non-news

Pax and Skiles have liked Noah since the last draft. There were rumors that Noah would would have been the pick if he came out. I hope Pax either trades up for Wright or Horford or goes down and takes McRoberts or trades the pick or packages the pick say BG7 and 9 for Al Jefferson.

by LD9 on Jun 19, 2007 11:47 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

ew

Al Jefferson for Gordon and the 9?

by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on Jun 19, 2007 11:50 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

They won't even trade Jefferson

for Kevin Garnett. I'm guessing because Jefferson is one of the rare successes for Ainge and he needs that to keep his job.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jun 19, 2007 11:52 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think taking McRoberts

might actually be more unrealistic than Danny trading baby Al.

by Scotter on Jun 19, 2007 12:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Draft Yi

then trade him to golden state for Andris Biedrins and there 18th pick and draft either Josh McRoberts or Arron Afflalo. That gives us a low post scorer and a good talent to develope.

by eross226 on Jun 19, 2007 12:15 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Wow...

Very interesting and original. Andris and 18 for #9? Is it enough?

Yes, of course.

by tyger1147 on Jun 19, 2007 12:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I highly doubt the Warriors trade Beans

he's young and cheap and really suits their style. If anything they need more rebounding, so why trade their best rebounder?

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jun 19, 2007 12:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Then we can have two bigs who can't

shoot free throws. Awesome. Oh and have bad hair.

by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on Jun 19, 2007 12:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Bulls-Warriors trade

could yield Patrick O'Bryant. He is a talented and raw big like Hawes. He doesnt fit Nellyball at all. Get the best of both worlds another pick and a simliar guy to one they might have drafted at 9.

by LD9 on Jun 19, 2007 1:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

That's ludricious

O'Bryant is actually the example of centers that are NBA flops. Guys who have one good tournament run and get drafted. O'Bryant and Hawes have nothing in common, but their height.

by Scotter on Jun 19, 2007 1:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

O'bryant & Hayes

They do have 1 thing in common. I do not want either on the Bulls.

by Jesse07 on Jun 19, 2007 1:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

O'Bryant

apparently has been working out against some of this years draft picks and other players and everytime i read a report about it (sorry no link) its always about how bad o bryant gets crushed.

by Sambossanova on Jun 19, 2007 1:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

yeah

he falls in the same "tier" as Saer Sene ... that being, "draft picks GM's wish to have back"

by CookDing on Jun 19, 2007 1:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

why bash sene?

everyone knew he was a project and i havnt heard anything, good or bad, about him

by milesgmsu on Jun 19, 2007 5:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

if you haven't heard anything

then it's probably not a ringing endorsement.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jun 19, 2007 6:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

wow if they do get Noah...

then they would have landed the two guys they had sought in last years draft. Before Joakim took his name out.

by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on Jun 19, 2007 12:21 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Jinx on wow.

by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on Jun 19, 2007 12:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Jay Bilas-''Oden is the best center since 1985?''

I guess Shaq and Zo don't count? Ewing never won a ring but ok. Shaq has 4 rings and he already has Oden pegged as the best center since 1985? I don't like Shaq but he has been the best center since 1999ish. Pretty strong statement by Bilas.

by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on Jun 19, 2007 12:38 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Bilas is kind of an idiot though

and prone to hyperbole.

Draft pick rodeo -- Yi Hawes!

by preverbal on Jun 19, 2007 12:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

couldn't agree more

and to further your point, you have to hear his video analysis of Noah here

and I quote:

"he's got a great motor...he plays with energy...Noah hates to lose and I think that's a very important attribute in a player"

later he then says:

"he is not a good shooter and he has a stroke that makes you cringe...he really needs to improve his shot mechanics and his fundamentals...but he will be a productive NBA player"

so I guess hating to lose (which 100% of NBA players do) beats out mechanics and fundamentals any day.

by ScottieCartwright on Jun 19, 2007 2:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

yeah, so, I'm a dick

and i keep disagreeing with you. But I saw plenty of players (Eddy Curry, Jalen Rose, JR Smith, ...) that seemed to swallow defeats easier than others. For as much BS as there is about Noah's motor, I think the value of 'winning-attitude' is a valid point. Especially in a sports era when many players seem more concerned with money and attention than they do with wins.

by CookDing on Jun 19, 2007 3:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

disagreements are cool

I just don't think the sarcastic remarks that everyone else seems to make around here are necessary. Not you, but I see them a lot on this board made by a lot of people.

But back to the subject...you are correct...I think "winning attitude" IS valid, I didn't say that it wasn't.

MY point was that it wasn't more important than mechanics, fundamentals, or skills...which Bilas tried to make it seem like.

A player can have the winning-est attitude ever known to man...but if he can't put the ball in the hoop that means NOTHING.

I disagree with you on the Curry thing though. I can't remember physically seeing him take a loss easy...granted none of us are around the players before or after the game so we wouldn't have a clue how they are in private, but as much as people want to bash his lack of defense or "passion", I still think he cared about winning.

by ScottieCartwright on Jun 19, 2007 3:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

right

You'd have no argument from me that skills trump winning attitude for the most part.
As for Curry, he may have looked and acted like he cared about winning but he never seemed to translate his statements into his on-court product. When your coach says you could become a better rebounder if you "jump", you could care more about winning.

by CookDing on Jun 19, 2007 3:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

eh...

I've never liked that "jump" comment by Skiles. Him saying that, to me, doesn't so much comment on Curry's attitude about winning...it more spoke of frustrations that he had because Curry was never his type of player to begin with.

You can say "jump" to just about any big man in the league (except for Tyrus) when it comes to trying to get a rebound. There were PLENTY of times this past season where I saw a rebound go right in front of Ben and I screamed "JUMP!" only to have him ignore me :-) But nobody questioned his attitude about winning.

Let Skiles put his body down in the trenches for 40+ minutes with 230 lb guys leaning, falling, pulling, and dragging you...see how tired he would get and how much he would want to "jump".

by ScottieCartwright on Jun 19, 2007 3:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

or it was about Eddy Curry

being a terrible rebounder.

by Paxson Jackson on Jun 19, 2007 4:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

that's true too

I think that's where 4 years of college would've done him some good...maybe he would've learned a technique or two

If you think about it, he really didn't have to "jump" in high school since he was so much bigger than everyone else

by ScottieCartwright on Jun 19, 2007 6:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

might as well jump!

I equated jump w/ effort. Somebody w/ Eddy's abilities should have averaged far more than a paltry 7 boards a game. As for Ben, he definitely had issues earlier in the year but it's hard to question a guy that has won so much while having so little classic ideal attributes (height, handle, shot, etc.).
As for Skiles, the guy instigated a fight w/ Shaq so I don't think there's an issue about him, physical play and effort. If anything, his career speaks to expending maximum effort.

by CookDing on Jun 19, 2007 4:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

big difference

between INSTIGATING a fight with Shaq and getting in one with him. Just like there's a big difference between running around on the perimeter as opposed to banging down low all night.

Sure Skiles was tough and a scrapper and gave effort...but it's easy to say "jump" from the outside looking in.

You're right though...I think it spoke of effort. Which nullifies it speaking of "winning attitude"...two different things

by ScottieCartwright on Jun 19, 2007 5:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

It's just sad that at 7'

hi's career best is just over 7 rebounds. Ben Wallace being shorter averages way more and plays a whole game, not just half a game.

The Future is bright!

by Goostafer on Jun 19, 2007 4:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

VC doesn't hate to lose

by milesgmsu on Jun 19, 2007 5:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Anyone gamble?

http://www.eog.com/news/full-article.aspx?id=26300

by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on Jun 19, 2007 12:54 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

when...

...i hear this early from bulls sources that, "We've been told by numerous team sources that if still on the board, Joakim Noah doesn't slip past this pick."

...to me it pretty much means it's posturing by someone to raise noah's stock so he goes earlier than 9, and leaves someone else at 9 that the bulls really want...

by leeac on Jun 19, 2007 1:02 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

I agree

It seems like the "consensus" player for the Bulls changes day by day: from Noah to Hawes to Smith back to Noah. Hopefully we can get yahoo GMs around the league to bite on this sort of stuff. Sounds like Phila, Golden State and others would be willing to trade up to get our #9. If GS wanted it, would it be possible to get Pietrus from them in any sort of package? I seem to remember that the Bulls were high on him?

by Old Skool Sloan on Jun 19, 2007 1:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

then shhhh

by milesgmsu on Jun 19, 2007 5:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

What if you

sign and trade noce and duhon aswell as the 49th and 51st pick for Nick Collison and their 31st pick and use tha to draft a quality player and use the # 9 pick to draft Spencer Hawes and let him develope at his own pace.

by eross226 on Jun 19, 2007 1:07 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Sign & Trade

We cannot do a sign and trade before the draft. Plus, I only like the Collison idea.

by Jesse07 on Jun 19, 2007 1:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Smoke Screen.

Half the material that comes out in the next week is going to be a smoke screen. That said between the 3 bigs that are "rumored" to fall. I think Paxson has them rated Yi, Noah, then Hawes.

by Jesse07 on Jun 19, 2007 2:00 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

we should be happy then...

Pax had Hawes and Noah work out against eachother.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jun 19, 2007 2:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

that workout

It sounded to me like Hawes held his own, or had the advantage in the matchup against Noah, did anyone else get that impression?

And with the 9th pick the Bulls select...

by bullshooter on Jun 19, 2007 2:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I got that impression from all of his workouts

with Noah. Chad Ford said Noah was possibly slipping due to his workouts a couple of days ago.

by Scotter on Jun 19, 2007 2:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Noah is hurt.

Shoulder? I read an article a while back (if I see it again, I'll update y'all). Gist was it was hurt during the season, was told to rest/rehab but...he's just gotta compete. Said he can rehab it for a month or so after the draft.

by marionette on Jun 19, 2007 9:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I've been down on Noah, but now it looks

more likely that I'll be watching that spaz. So here's my attempt to convince myself that Noah won't be a disaster.

Noah fits alot of things the Bulls do. He can play in a motion offense. He handles the ball well for his size and is a good passer. But, his impact will be limited until he can hit a 15 ft jump shot.

Noah's real value would be on the defensive end. He can do a little bit of everything offensively. And the Bulls defensive philosophy would fit him. He would be fronting the post instead of having to anchor against stronger players, allowing him to use his energy to fight for position. And he has the lateral quickness and speed to defend the pick and roll and recover.

It's that jumpshot that is the real key. With it, he can play in the pick and roll, and be an offensive role player and a good defender. Without that jumpshot many of his strengths won't translate to the NBA. His passing is less effective if he's not an offensive threat. He won't be able to take players off the dribble if he can't make a jumpshot. All of those ball handling skills are meaningless if he can't make a jumpshot.

by Scotter on Jun 19, 2007 2:06 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

not entirely

a good passing big man always has value, especially on a team with slashing 1's, 2's and 3's and/or a motion offense.
And having a good handle pays off nicely in a pick 'n roll situation especially if the pick/roll man doesn't have Tyson Chandler 'QuikCrete' hands.
I do agree with the idea that a 15 ft. shot would complement Noah's offensive repertoire A LOT though.

by CookDing on Jun 19, 2007 2:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

It has value, but it's also

really diminished. Noah's ability to pass from the post is basically meaningless if he can't 1st get position and 2nd be a threat. Just like Wallace's passing ability is nullified agaisnt the better defensive teams.

by Scotter on Jun 19, 2007 2:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Wallace

that comparison is not exactly equitable b/c Wallace is further limited by the fact that a) he can't dribble b) his lack of height nullifies his ability to see over his defender and c) he has no idea how to handle himself in an offense. I believe that even the most scathing critique of Noah would allow that he can do all three of those things.
I do agree that a shot would help but I don't think you can say a big's passing skills are meaningless w/o one.

by CookDing on Jun 19, 2007 2:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Noah

I am glad people are coming around to Noah. He will give the Bulls an athetic front line and he can back up Big Ben and eventually replace him.

Kirk leading the break with Tyrus, Deng, Sef, & Noah would be entertaining and lead to some easy points. Hopefully Paxson can find someone atleast a couple steps up from Sweets that can put atleast 15 minutes a night to get some easy buckets in the post.

I welcome Noah, but if Yi is available, I would maybe pull the trigger for him because the dread word "potential." He is probably the last addition to this Bull's team that can be a star. The next 7-10 years plan on the Bull's selecting between 20-30 in the draft. Finally, anyone find out how old Yi really is yet???

by Jesse07 on Jun 19, 2007 3:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

is noah's passing

superior to wallaces ( a decent passer) or tyrus (who is quickly developing)

by milesgmsu on Jun 19, 2007 5:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Tyrus

Noah passing is better. Plus, he is more court savy, so he is a little more relaxed on the court, so he might not make silly turnover like throwing the ball away down the stretch to kill a comeback against the Pistons.

by Jesse07 on Jun 19, 2007 6:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Noah is a better passer than Thomas

or Wallace. His basketball I.Q. is better than Thomas, but he's prone to playing out of control and doing stupid things with the ball as well.

by Scotter on Jun 19, 2007 6:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

prone to..

Noah hasn't played a minute of basketball in the NBA, so I am not try to say he won't make stupid mistakes. Noah plays the game with reckless abandon and that at times make you do stupid things. The point I was tring to make is Noah playing out of control is different than Tyrus play out of control.

Noah playing out of control might run over a player going for a loose ball. Tyrus get overly excited and panic.

by Jesse07 on Jun 19, 2007 6:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yep

Not enough people mention Thomas' issues with anxiety. Whaaaaat?

by Paxson Jackson on Jun 19, 2007 7:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

My take

I want the bulls to get hawes, but i truly trust in paxson and can see the upsides to the big three (yi, hawes, noah)

This is what i see if noah is a bull:

His size might make him a good sub for ben wallace in case
A)big ben gets in foul trouble
B)big ben gets super tired
C)big ben (god forbid) gets hurt

As a power forward, between him and big ben there should be no rebounds lost, if he plays center and thomas play power forward same thing.

Unlike big ben when he gets the ball we should be looking a dunk, not a layup. Unlike thomas i am hoping he can control his passion (long enough) so that he can set the right screen, make the right pass, and not make TOO MANY rookie mistakes.

His high energy and hustle should help us in the paint, because he seems like the never say die kind of guys who will fight for every rebound and wont quit until it is safely in another players hands, or going through the net.

His size would make him a good asset, he probably will never develop a polished post game, and it would take a while before his jumper became consistant. He should contribute right away, and should be a good compliment to wallace or tyrus. Not a star but a decent role player.

Still, i believe hawes is the best pick.

im trying hard to become the next kirk hinrich, therefore im doing nothing more than being the next chris duhon.

by piccolomair on Jun 19, 2007 2:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I believe Hawes

is the right pick also. I have watched some tapes of him and his skills are impressive and I think he will translate well with the Bulls.

by SRQman on Jun 19, 2007 5:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Don't forget

He will start to peak and ready for starter time around the time Big Ben hits decline and his contract is about to end. Grooming this guy to replace BW isn't a bad idea.

"If you're not going to compete, then I'll dominate you." MJ

by Rankdog on Jun 19, 2007 6:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think that comment is huge

Because of all the yi vs hawes talks we did. I mean if you want hawes over at least noah, then it is saying alot.

im trying hard to become the next kirk hinrich, therefore im doing nothing more than being the next chris duhon.

by piccolomair on Jun 20, 2007 2:34 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I hate titles

I wasn't advocating a comparison between Noah and Hawes per say. I was merely saying that Noah if drafted would likely gradually replace Wallace as time passes. I think the two(Noah and Wallace) have a similar skill set. If Paxson feels that Hawes has the skills to man the post on the NBA level than I don't have a problem with that pick. You already know my opinion on Hawes. McHale likes that guy and that should be cause for alarm =)

I do not think that Noah will be guy you can count on scoring with his back to the basket. I see him more as a Ben Wallace type of player.

To be truthful I would rather them ship the draft pick for Garnett if it doesn't gut the team in doing so.

"If you're not going to compete, then I'll dominate you." MJ

by Rankdog on Jun 22, 2007 7:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Noah's defense

Is he even that good of a defender. Last time I checked, Horford would get the tougher man to man assignments (oden etc..). Noah has a skinny frame and not much weight on him. Wallace and Thomas are both better at help defense/weakside defenders than man to man (much of that has to do with their size).
I am not so sure that Noah will be that great of a defender at the NBA level as many here seem to think. I wouldn't be so sure that Noah's lack of offensive game would be compensated by his defensive presence (like tyrus thomas).

by Sambossanova on Jun 19, 2007 2:15 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

he held

up pretty well in their '06 title run and I seem to remember him d'ing up plenty of big men then. He'll definitely never be a banger though, his shoulders are too narrow.

by CookDing on Jun 19, 2007 2:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

two very good points

Sambossanova & CookDing. 2006 and 2007 NCAA showed Noah shutting down Tyrus and Big Baby Davis in final 4, and Horford containing Oden in NCAA championship game, respectively. It seems, coach Donovan avoided ever matching Noah against Oden. I can't remember if Noah ever guarded Oden. The other Florida Big, Richards played more than Noah and did a decent job guarding Oden. Maybe Noah was hurt, but he sure looked tentitive and lacked defensive aggression in that 2007 championship game

by exult463 on Jun 19, 2007 4:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Woah Woah Woah

Noah didn't guard Oden because he was in foul trouble. I don't agree that Oden was "contained" by Horford. Oden dominated that game and if the Buckeyes gave him the ball MORE it would have been closer.

by SRQman on Jun 19, 2007 5:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Oh damnit.

I'll try to tell myself "trust in pax" but all I can muster is "damnit."

what about little butterchubs there?

by colintj on Jun 19, 2007 3:11 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

oh what the hell Noah is better than

anything at the 23rd. I won't complain if they draft him.

by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on Jun 19, 2007 3:49 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

I trust Pax

to draft the player he feels this team will benefit from the most.

Buckle your seatbelts kids. It's going to be a bumpy couple of weeks.

by sue369 on Jun 19, 2007 4:32 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

few ideas

One, I don't like noah as a pick for the bulls. He certainly didn't play like the smartest player in the draft with Florida...often reckless

Noah wouldn't be a terrible pick; you know what you're going to get....at worst a 10 - 15 min guy who could get ya 8 6 2 and maybe a block; not terrible but not amazing. He's also a decent defender

That being said, he doesn't address the bulls need for a low post scorer....Hawes is the only guy that would hypothetically do that as a 4/5....however; he may be off the board. Thus, i humbly suggest one of the following

1. Trade up; there should be teams that would love to trade down. Memphis; Atlanta, Boston, Minny and Charlotte just off the top of my head. These teams all possess so many holes that the difference between a 5 and 9 pick isn't huge plus with the pieces the bulls could offer (2nd round picks, late future firsts, duhon, krappy) it wouldn't be killer for the bulls. Doing this, we could be in a postion to draft hawes or Yi

or

2. Trade down; with the #9 pick it seems that we're banking far too much on Yi or Hawes there, otherwise we're going to settle for Noah which may help bring in a few wins or maybe even push us into or past the ECF, but won't make us a team that Utah, Houston, SAS, Dallas, or Phx to fear for mroe than a 6 game series. If we were able to turn the #9 pick into picks with teams like Nooch, Nets, Hawks, Clippers (teams that will be lottery bound, or fighting for the #8 seed) we will be in a better position to draft a mid 1st rounder we were interested in, and have future lottery picks to bank. Other route is trade down and take a big man from the teams (Hilton Armstrong, Boone, and of the GSW huge 7 footers).

I don't like the #9 pick; it's not high enough ot guarantee a player like hawes or yi, but not low enough to take a bigger risk...we're almost corneing ourself into drafting noah; and personally; I don't want to be the buffalo bills of the NBA

by milesgmsu on Jun 19, 2007 5:33 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

phx, philly and gsw all trying to move up

by milesgmsu on Jun 19, 2007 5:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

For the right price move up.

I don't see the Bulls giving away there 2nd rounders. With all the Bull's freeagents, the 2nd rounder are going to give the Bulls some cheap talent that may or may not pan out.

by Jesse07 on Jun 19, 2007 6:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Your argument that

there's little diff between 5 and 9, is one I'd use for the VALUE of the current position. Let's see who falls to it; if it's Hawes or Yi, you're elated. If Noah, I'm pleased (as others would be). Conley? Fine. All the better for facilitating a trade.

The risk of failing to trade up? I counter with the commonly held notion that your two are among the biggest projects, i.e. risks this year.

Which guy do you target? MysterYi is supposed to be a run-the-court, face-up player with range. Exactly the opposite of the "total lack of explosiveness" Hawes.

For sure, Paxson will move to get his guy, as previously demonstrated. And if Hawes is the next McHale, let's hope he does!

I really like the idea of trading down, if it means getting a big that Pax/Siles WANT, to boot.

The Draft is such a craps shoot (crap shoot?). Look back at the great players taken there in recent years. And ever since the days of the Beatles and Randy Hundley, I've LOVED the number 9.

by marionette on Jun 19, 2007 9:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Brandan Wright,

Noah might be gone, and also Hawes. Wright is dropping. He seems like Tyrus, loads of potential, with a slightly higher basketball IQ? Maybe Bulls will just have to accumulate assets for a future trade. I'm not high on the other Wright (Juilian). Any opinions on Brandan Wright?

by exult463 on Jun 19, 2007 5:54 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Brandon seems too laid-back

for me to be enthused about. Tho' some with that type demeanor do become stars. Talented and smooth.

Julian lacks shooting effectiveness, and willingness (they say). Good passing, length, athleticism, and defensive probability. Might be a great glue guy if the Bulls had a big front court scorer, and didn't already have Deng.

I don't see a lot of college hoops, but I've seen both Wrights "disappear" (a big complaint made of them).

It's interesting how they've dropped in the mocks (Julian was #5 in ESPN v1.0, I think). Due to limited tryouts? MysterYi has done even less in that regard, but could he be dropping as well? (Could teams be posturing?)

I still think Atlanta messes up and picks Brandon #3, settles for less at PG at #11, and is in the lottery again (for Suns)!

by marionette on Jun 19, 2007 8:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Trade with philly

Samuel Dalembert for the # 9 pick

by eross226 on Jun 19, 2007 5:58 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Why?

by SRQman on Jun 19, 2007 6:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

by Jesse07 on Jun 19, 2007 6:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think Philly...

would giggle out loud if Paxon offered it. Plus, he is making Chandler money 10 mil a year. He is a defensive big making too much money. He is not a good fit for the Bulls.

by Jesse07 on Jun 19, 2007 6:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

who is eross226?

could be a sixer fan?

by milesgmsu on Jun 19, 2007 6:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I HATE THE SIXERS

by eross226 on Jun 19, 2007 6:26 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

just throwing random ideas out

by eross226 on Jun 19, 2007 6:27 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Don't question Noah. He is a winner.

He gave up millions just for a chance at a NCAA championship repeat. There was no gaurantee they would do it, but he took the chance anyway. That shows commitment. Noah, as goofy as he is, is a winner.

Hawes is a bit too "stiffy" and doesn't really have what it takes. In an interview posted on draftexpress he looked back at his first year with regret and questioned his leadership. That's a big red flag right there, Hawes is not ready for the NBA.

Yi might be a 20-10 player in 3 years... but that's in 3 years. I don't see him cracking an NBA rotation next year. There's also the "Tskishvili Factor" that comes into play when international bigs become lottery picks.

You can't go wrong with Noah. 1. Winner 2. Colorful character 3. Will work his ass off every minute hes on the floor. His only flaw is lack of muscle mass... a summer NBA weight program will get right on that. Jokequeen Noah for the win!

by vlad001 on Jun 19, 2007 7:00 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

meaningless cliche

by Paxson Jackson on Jun 19, 2007 7:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

20 & 10

"Yi might be a 20-10 player in 3 years" that sums up why Yi should be a head of Noah on the Bull's draft board. I really like Noah, but if Yi and Noah are both available at 9, Yi has to be the pick. (Unless a question of his health comes up or maybe we find out he is actually 35 years old.)

by Jesse07 on Jun 19, 2007 7:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Notice none of your positives

are being good at basketball. And his ugly ass jumpshot is a much bigger flaw than muscle mass. He also doesn't have an ass to work off. Did you take that into consideration? If so you might of over estimated how much he's actually working.

Critical self-examination isn't what it takes? Being aware of your flaws and working to correct them isn't what it takes? I'll give Hawes credit for atleast being able to talk about basketball in normal sentences. If Hawes won the National championship this year with Horford and Brewer on his team would Hawes be a "winner" or would he still be too "stiffy"? When evaluating basketball players, being good at basketball should probably be somewhere above "colorful character", "works his ass off", and "winner".

by Scotter on Jun 19, 2007 7:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

ehh?

"He gave up millions just for a chance at a NCAA championship repeat. There was no gaurantee they would do it, but he took the chance anyway. That shows commitment. Noah, as goofy as he is, is a winner. "

-or maybe he just felt he wasnt as good as he could be and wanted to take one more year to make sure he could handle the nba. If you interpret it that way you could say he was scared...(yes you can interpret it many ways...that is the point)-

"Hawes is a bit too "stiffy" "

-what does that even mean???-

"and doesn't really have what it takes. In an interview posted on draftexpress he looked back at his first year with regret and questioned his leadership. That's a big red flag right there, Hawes is not ready for the NBA."

-his first year? oh you mean his only year? As a freshman he was established as a leader of his team, and he is mature enough to question how he handled that role. And after playing one very mediocre year in college, he is still sitting at a possible top 10 pick! Also, not many rookies are completely ready for the nba, just look at tyrus thomas, and we all believe he will be okay-

"Yi might be a 20-10 player in 3 years... but that's in 3 years. I don't see him cracking an NBA rotation next year. There's also the "Tskishvili Factor" that comes into play when international bigs become lottery picks."

-if it takes him only three years to become a 20 and 10 player, does that mean he will be giving something like 10 and 5 his first year? Is that actually bad? 15 and 7.5 in his second year? That's bad?-

"You can't go wrong with Noah. 1. Winner"
-technically yi is also a winner, he dominated the chinese league-
"2. Colorful character"
-you get that one-
"3. Will work his ass off every minute hes on the floor. His only flaw is lack of muscle mass... a summer NBA weight program will get right on that."
-The same thing has been said about yi and hawes. They work hard, give you all they got, and lack muscle. And i believe a summer nba weight program will help every draft pick out.-

"Jokequeen Noah for the win!"
-A good player, but only if hawes and yi are truly gone and no veteran big man is available-

im trying hard to become the next kirk hinrich, therefore im doing nothing more than being the next chris duhon.

by piccolomair on Jun 20, 2007 2:55 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Noah

The decision to go back to school party, drink, and have fun being on a top ranked national college basketball team had very little to show commitment to playing in the NBA. It shows he really loved the college experience and was willing to sacrifice a lot of money to do so. He didn't improve his game in the last year and in fact was less productive.

While we are on the subject of "winners" lets go down the list.

Christan Laetner
Keith Smart
Tony Delk
Jerry Mcnamar
Grant Long

Lets down another list

Dennis Rodman
Scottie Pippin
John Stockon
Karl Malone

Not everyone that comes to the NBA from a winning program is a great player and not everyone who comes from a small school or didn't win an NCAA title is a bust. In fact it has very little relevance.

"If you're not going to compete, then I'll dominate you." MJ

by Rankdog on Jun 22, 2007 7:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Who are

Christan Laetner, Jerry Mcnamar, Scottie Pippin, and John Stockon? They must have gone to some really obscure colleges.

by Paxson Jackson on Jun 23, 2007 9:13 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Who would

fit better with tyrus in 2-3 years Hawes, Noah,or Yi.I know for sure it wont be Noah.

by eross226 on Jun 19, 2007 7:34 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Neither

trade tyrus to atlanta straight-up for Hawks draft pick and then select Horford..

by exult463 on Jun 20, 2007 9:39 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

There's a reason

Tyrus would still have likely gone third in this draft. He can solve problems by jumping, Horford can't.

by Scotter on Jun 20, 2007 4:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

rofl

I love Tyrus and his jumping which solves problems.

by SRQman on Jun 20, 2007 4:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

The last three years

the Bulls have flat out not been able to score in crucial games in the playoffs. Hopefully the problem has repeated itself enough for Pax to know that using a #9 pick in a strong draft on a non-scorer isn't the wisest thing in the world.

by No bull on Jun 19, 2007 10:30 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

could be used as a throw in

for a trade.

by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on Jun 19, 2007 10:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

what if everyone from this draft just sucked!

And we all had just wasted our time on crappy basketball players. Kinda like me last year thinking Morrison was going to be the next Bird. Ha! What a tool I am.

by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on Jun 19, 2007 10:32 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

ha ha

Yeah, Morrison is a good cautionary tale.

My head is starting to spin. I am drifting into "In Pax We Trust" mode. At this point I just want them to pick somebody so I know who to root for.

Draft pick rodeo -- Yi Hawes!

by preverbal on Jun 19, 2007 10:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah, I'm ready for the draft to be done

Bring on summer league!

"They had me do a psychology test and I asked Coach Skiles if that affected his coaching. He laughed and said, `No way.'" (Joakim Noah)

by wjb1492 on Jun 19, 2007 11:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Me too.

I have such a headache.

Buckle your seatbelts kids. It's going to be a bumpy couple of weeks.

by sue369 on Jun 20, 2007 12:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Overall

Noah can rebound, play good defense, and has a pretty good low-post game.

by bu11s on Jun 19, 2007 10:42 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

and dance like a girl

by SRQman on Jun 19, 2007 10:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Joke

is more Marcus Camby than Varejeo, that's the comparison made at Si.com. I have no idea where the Varejeo comparisons are coming from. Joke's game is not 75% flopping.

by vlad001 on Jun 19, 2007 11:18 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

interesting stats

Here's a draftexpress statistical breakdown of this year Pf's.

http://draftexpress.com/viewarticle.php?a=2128

Ok I know the NBA is not college hoops, but it is interesting that Noah is right there with Horford on practically every statistic (and higher in some). Why is Horford more highly regarded? Does his game better translate to the NBA. Frankly I dont understand much about statistics and the importance etc...but I though it was an interesting observation.

by Sambossanova on Jun 20, 2007 1:56 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Horford=

flavor of the moment. I don't know why anybody didn't see how he benefited from having 4 great teammates. Seriously, go to yahoo sports and watch the video of him. Aside from the shitty stix cover band music, you'll be quick to notice that almost every play involves two things: him going left and shooting a right-handed hook against a 5'9'' guy and Noah feeding him in the post.
Horford will be good, but I don't see that much difference b/w him and a Shelden Williams type.

by CookDing on Jun 20, 2007 7:38 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I saw something more

Horford, displays a competitive instinct and showed that he will not back down to anyone.
Competitive instinct is an intanglable that good/great players possess. He continue to pressure Oden offensively, even when Oden block his shot, and Oden will be a great defensive NBA player in the future. Horford, already has good post foot work. He does favor his right-handled hook, but it works, and is not easily blocked. Yet, his foot work is already good, so he will build more offensive moves on an already existing foundation. Good footwork is something others Bigs don't already possess. Ty2 is an example.

by exult463 on Jun 20, 2007 9:54 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Good comments both

CD and Ex. Should take a while before he puts up those good PF numbers, if ever. Brandan Wright would also have the requisite fundemental footwork, I believe. But the fire/drive? Horford seems to have it.

Any one else think Noah is a better fit for the Grizz than Horford? Kind of like how "perfect" Gasol would've been here with Wallace? That they might be tempted to swap for Noah and Duhon after the draft, if it plays out that way?

by marionette on Jun 20, 2007 2:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

It's

fund-a-mental footwork. Thanks Fundamentally (below)!

by marionette on Jun 20, 2007 2:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

that swap would

be a day made in heaven!

by exult463 on Jun 20, 2007 3:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

David Thorpe Chat

Don't know if you guys caught this, but in David Thorpe's Insider chat today our discussion topic Joakim, and his current draftboard slide, came up. Here's what David Thorpe ( a pretty solid scout in my view) had to say about Noah:

Harvey (Boston, MA): Seems to me Noah is falling and with KG and Kobe about to be traded, things are difficult to figure out. So, who is moving up or down - and where is Spencer Hawes projected? I think Hawes is looking good.

David Thorpe: Why Noah is falling is beyond me. One scout that I respect texted me this: "Noah is starting center for a championship team good", I agree.

If this guy can be a championship quality center, why wouldn't we want him? I remember wanting him, Horford, or TT this time last year. We got one of that trio, let's get the other that's available to us (Horford will be long gone).

Anyway, thought that was interesting insight from a scout and trainer with some chops.

by fundamentallysound on Jun 20, 2007 2:03 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

This huge thread

has done my heart some good after all the Noah-hatin'. Russell didn't have broad shoulders either. I know Oden's supposed to be the next Russell, but he can't be. He's too broad shouldered!

Seriously, it's all hype and hyperbole, isn't it? I'd hate to pass on any of: Nowitzki/Bargnani (mysterYi), Camby/7ft Battier (Noah), or McHale (Hawes).

by marionette on Jun 20, 2007 2:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

the Noah hating

has gotten a little out of control, in my opinion. It's fine by me as it will allow us to land a solid player. As for the narrow shoulders bit, that's stupid as hell. Yao has t-rex arms, Tayshaun Prince looks like somebody you could feed for 25 cents a day, Dirk Nowitzki is a waif in the post ... size means little when you look at perennial underachievers like Kwame, Eddy, Al Jefferson, Mark Jackson, etc.

by CookDing on Jun 21, 2007 7:32 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

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