Boarding schooled (that's the lamest rebounding pun I could think of, I promise)

by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 8, 2007 11:18 PM CDT in News Comment 72 comments

(Oreb% is basically the percentage of available offensive rebounds that the team gets.)

Bulls opponents Oreb% - Season	25.7%
Pistons Oreb% - Season	28.3%
Pistons Oreb% - Game One	34.1%
Pistons Oreb% - Game Two	40.5%

Pistons opponents Oreb% - Season	29.1%
Bulls Oreb% - Season	28.6%
Bulls Oreb% - Game One	25.6%
Bulls Oreb% - Game Two	18.2%

The Bulls are not only failing to exploit one of Detroit's few weaknesses (giving up offensive boards), they're getting destroyed on their own glass.

I wish I could (or should I say, wish someone else did) isolate the series statistics and take out the garbage time, but this is just as damning:

Explain the Bulls getting outrebounded [in Game2] 13-4 in the first quarter?

Aren't rebounds 20 percent talent, 80 percent want-to?

I'm not sure about Rick Telander's percentages, but there is something to be said about the Pistons simply giving a damn and getting to more boards. I also think seeing PJ Brown getting benched in the first couple minutes of each game isn't helping, maybe Skiles could just let PJ stay out there with two fouls instead of bringing in the comparatively-board-deficient (although surprisingly enough to me, not by much) Nocioni right away. Or ::cough:: Tyrus Thomas. Either way the Skiles (only?) strategy of going small seems like it'd only make this problem worse, although judging by the opening minutes of both games staying big isn't getting results either. Ben Wallace is getting drawn out of the paint by Detroit's bigs but that shouldn't excuse him for most of this blame, it's what he's being paid to do.

The Bulls are having a tough enough time as it is keeping the Pistons from making shots. Allowing multiple opportunities is not only draining on the defense but it keep the Bulls from pushing the pace when they finally do get the ball. When they push the pace they can get easier shots and make more of them. Maybe getting back home helps the 'want-to' a bit, but playing some taller lineups is also worth a try.

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Wallace had many rebounds squrit away.

Which seemed to come when the Bulls were playing better and thus killing momentum.

Pain and death are part of life. To reject them is to reject life itself.

by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on May 9, 2007 8:31 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

this solves the

"Why was Sweetney in?" mystery.

by Paxson Jackson on May 9, 2007 8:33 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

ahem :: clears throat:: cough

cough, cough, yawn, clears throat.

And KC talks about this, too.

by bullshooter on May 9, 2007 9:03 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Doh!

"I don't see a lot of situations where I sit there and say, 'That should've been Ben's rebound,' " Skiles said. "Our guards really rebounded the ball in the Miami series. [Deng] did too.

"Balls are bouncing around the elbow area that we're standing flat-footed and not getting. All season long we've been a 'team' rebounding team. That's how we rebound and why we're one of the better rebounding teams. We sorely need that right now."

Isn't the key to 'team' rebounding playing good rebounders? Put that in your Occam's Razor and smoke it.

by Paxson Jackson on May 9, 2007 9:38 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Not having good rebounders to bring in

makes putting them in problematic. After Wallace and PJ, who can Skiles bring in to pick up the slack. Maybe it's time to bring back everybody's favorite rebounding ninja, Viktor Khryapa.

by bullshooter on May 9, 2007 9:50 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Sweetney & Thomas

by Paxson Jackson on May 9, 2007 9:55 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Sweetney wasn't that effective

as a rebounder, actually he was completely ineffective with 0 boards, and neither was Tyrus against the Pistons starters. Tyrus had one rebound before the 4th quarter.

by bullshooter on May 9, 2007 10:16 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

that's one game

Thomas/Sweets are some of the better Bulls best rebounders over the course of the season.

That said, I don't want Sweetney out there again. Once you buried a guy, rightfully or not, keep him there. I'd just play Thomas more (and Thabo more, he's far better rebounder than Duh) and not yank PJ after 2 fouls...but the more practical solution is just hope PJ and Wallace play better.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 9, 2007 10:27 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

That's both games

and you can throw out the "best in the regular season" arguments because the Pistons obviously didn't bring their regular season game to this series. The Bulls best hope is that home cooking elevates everyones game, because nobody on the bench has made much of a case.

by bullshooter on May 9, 2007 10:42 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

don't make this about Robert Horry!

by Paxson Jackson on May 9, 2007 10:44 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Heh

if it's about Robert Horry, don't we have to include Deng in there somewhere...

by bullshooter on May 9, 2007 10:57 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

it's not about what the Pistons are 'bringing'

the Bulls can't control that.

I'm talking about the players who the Bulls think can 'bring it', and I don't buy into magic playoff juice making some guys better rebounders in the playoffs than the counterparts on their own team. Especially when the supposed playoff performer, Nocioni, is hurt.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 9, 2007 10:54 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

can't control the boards, either so far

and they were fine against the Pistons in the regular season. Skiles is playing the guys he thinks will "bring it." None of them have so far.

by bullshooter on May 9, 2007 10:59 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

terminology

instead of guys who 'bring it', I'd prefer he went with guys who 'are better at rebounding'. I guess that questions how much of rebounding is desire (or whatever), but I think it's a skill like any other.

But ANYWAY, this is all minor stuff if the core guys continue to suck. But as PaxJax said at least a better bench could keep things close and the second half wouldn't have to be gimmick ball.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 9, 2007 11:14 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Skiles on Noce...

""He drew two offensive fouls," coach Scott Skiles said in defense. "The travels, he should have just shot the ball. We need his shooting out there. He's a little example of what's going on. We're driving in, pitching it out to him, he's wide open and he has shot-faking and traveling. That's his shot and his game. He needs to just let that go."

Totally healthy or not, Skiles will continue to use Nocioni.

"He has done so much for our team," Skiles said. "I'm not going to abandon that right now.""

I knew you would lave that quote!

Seriously, though, I think Skiles is playing Noce for his shooting against the zone. That;'s my guess. It hasn't been working, though, as Noce has missed nine of ten three-pointers. Terrible series for him so far.

by 1958ChiTown on May 9, 2007 10:59 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

problem is

Noc almost never catches and shoots. That ugly jab step (and his USG-r) are killers to the motion offense. I'd like to see him start chucking it and hope he makes them.

by Paxson Jackson on May 9, 2007 11:02 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

his usg-r isn't

his TO's are.

by bullshooter on May 9, 2007 11:08 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

All of Nocioni's ballhandling stats

are proof that he's somewhat of a blackhole in a ball movement offense. That's why he has to hit shots to be useful.

by Paxson Jackson on May 9, 2007 11:12 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

absolutely

he should be and usually is the terminal end of the play.

by bullshooter on May 9, 2007 11:19 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Hold on, here! Hoooooold on!!!

I thought Nocioni was an indispensable part of this team that always stepped up his game during the playoffs. Right? Seriously, though. I remember hearing that ad nauseum somewhere.

Weird.

by tyger1147 on May 9, 2007 1:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Know what's weird?

Having more than one password that I can use for log-in at Blog-A-Bull.

How'd it happen, and why? Dunno

Little weird.

"They beat us. They beat us, period." - Pat Riley

by NittanyBull on May 9, 2007 2:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

No Sweetney

Agreed on that. I wonder why I never thought Skiles' rotational madness would be a baaaad idea in the playoffs.

by Paxson Jackson on May 9, 2007 10:43 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

could also be

the guards getting antsy and trying to leak out for a potential fast break instead of coming back for long rebounds.

But off the bench, having the Noc/Duh tandem isn't helping.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 9, 2007 10:11 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

team rebounding

You don't have to be a great rebounder to help your team on the boards. Of course, you need a few guys to haul them in, but all the other guys have to seal off their counterparts - if they're 15, 18, or even 20 feet from the rim. Leaking out is one thing, but it really only works when your team owns the boards. Standing on the parameter picking your nose...unacceptable.

The number of long tips so far has been outrageous.

Minutes/Rebounds
Gordon 61 - 3
Duhon 48 - 2
Nocioni 40 - 3

by jamestkirk on May 9, 2007 7:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

someone else used this title!

And maybe even before me. What the hell.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 9, 2007 9:30 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Skiles going with "his guys"...

I know Matt will be thrilled to see this.

I don't know how thrilled I am. I really wanted to see Tyrus start.

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/basketball/bulls/376623,CST-SPT-bull09.article

Still depressed from Monday...

by 1958ChiTown on May 9, 2007 10:13 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

you don't bench guys

in game 3 in the first home game, unless you want to embarrass them.

by bullshooter on May 9, 2007 10:17 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

But, as Matt pointed out, the starters

have been entirely ineffective on the boards.

If they perform poorly again, the series is essentially over.

I didn't want to sit the "Core," just PJ.

Of course, the series will be essentially over anyway unless Hinrich and Gordon play a lot better.

by 1958ChiTown on May 9, 2007 10:21 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

like I said

unless you want to embarrass guys, you don't bench them in the first home game of the series. A quick hook, maybe, but you don't bench them.

by bullshooter on May 9, 2007 10:26 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

well they're embarrasing themselves

so who cares?

But, I agree that while the starters aren't rebounding, there's nothing much to do except hope they get back to their season norm. It's the bench decisions that can make a difference, even more so with the early foul trouble the starters have had.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 9, 2007 10:29 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

It'd be one thing

if the guys behind PJ were tearing it up, but they aren't. Noc has sucked so far, and Tyrus has had one good stretch in garbage time.

by bullshooter on May 9, 2007 10:33 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

that's why I said

the solution may be just to let PJ stay on the floor even with two fouls. Despite what the series has shown us, amongst other options he's a good rebounder.

And I don't buy into just because Noc and Tyrus are both playing bad this series that means it doesn't matter who you pick. Go with the guy who's had the better rebounding season (Tyrus) who is conviently also the guy who can currently run and jump, all you can ask is playing the guys who give you the best chance to succeed.

Thabo (10.1 reb-rate) over Duhon (5.1) is an even more drastic improvement, but as the host of Duh-bashing HQ for the past few seasons I think everyone assumed where I stand on that, heh.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 9, 2007 10:38 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

obvious, but still...

The starters have sucked, but the bench hasn't been able to even keep the score close. I'd like to think the starters could have at least regrouped and made a run if they had a chance after Duhcioni made its appearance in games 1 and 2.

by Paxson Jackson on May 9, 2007 10:39 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I agree it would likely embarass PJ, but

at what point does the need to win outweigh interpersonal concerns and rules of decorum?

Of course, alienating PJ could hurt us down the road...but only if we somehow advanced! And there is the paradox.

I am focusing on PJ because he doesn't have a single defensive rebound in this whole series so far.

Oh, well, hopefully he plays better tomorrow.

by 1958ChiTown on May 9, 2007 10:30 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I don't mind keeping the starting lineup

I just want Noc and Duh kicked to the end of the playing rotation.

If the big shakeup turns out to be starting Duhon and 'getting Gordon going' by putting him on the bench, I'm junking this whole site and replacing it with a picture of a cute puppy or something.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 9, 2007 10:19 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

What if he started Thabo in place of Gordon?

Purely hypothetical. I have no reason to believe he will or should.

by 1958ChiTown on May 9, 2007 10:22 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

site stays!

but I won't be happy about it either.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 9, 2007 10:24 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

That'd be my choice

But I don't think Skiles from his comments thinks Thabo can guard either Billups or Hamilton.

by bullshooter on May 9, 2007 10:27 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'm against starting Thabo

Although if Skiles thinks he can't guard Billups or Hamilton, I wonder his opinion on Duh's ability to do the same. At least Thabo will grab a rebound while he's out there.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 9, 2007 10:32 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Skiles thinking

I'm channeling chitown on this one, but I think Skiles sees a better, (but still not good,) defensive backcourt with Duh and Hinrich, and better ballhandling. However, if Hinrich isn't is looking for his shot, then you basically give up all the offense and end up with a bunch of shots at the end of the shot clock, which still sucks.

by bullshooter on May 9, 2007 10:37 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

A positive article!

This is as positive as I've seen anything written about the Bulls since Game 1:

Click here to read (ChicagoSports.com)

-- Pat Riley just failed the "ultimate, ultimate, ultimate test".

by Jimslam on May 9, 2007 10:29 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Saw this too

I particularly liked the following:

Game 5 up in Auburn Hills could swing this thing.

Detroit center Chris Webber, who is playing unexpectedly well so far, described the Pistons' approach to the Bulls as an attempt "to impose our will on them."

That could explain it. I think there is a chance that the Bulls were hypnotized in Games 1 and 2. A referee had better search Webber for a swinging pocket watch.

Otherwise, maybe the Bulls simply had two off nights.

I watched this organization between 1998 and 2004 play a total of 460 games and lose 341 of them. So I don't panic when the Bulls blow two in a row.

Don't hold a funeral until there is no pulse. I will take the Bulls to take Games 3 and 4. Don't give up on them. Impose your will on them.

The Marcus Fizer/AJ Guyton era seems so long ago....

by paxson43 on May 9, 2007 10:45 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I agree that the series isn't over.

We haven't played at the UC.

I won't surrender until they beat us there.

And I think he is also correct when he says that the Bulls have gone out of their way to make the Pistons look like the greatest NBA team ever assembled.

The saddest thing about losing to the Pistons (should it happen) will be watching Cleveland take them to six or seven (and possible beat them) in the ECF. God, I despise Cleveland.

by 1958ChiTown on May 9, 2007 10:53 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

CLE and their chances

Just because they're playing "well" against inferior opponents doesn't mean they're going to beat DET.

I'm looking for a home.

by Boney on May 10, 2007 2:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

this will make you feel better

http://youtube.com/watch?v=jamJ4-C_TME

Pain and death are part of life. To reject them is to reject life itself.

by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on May 9, 2007 10:34 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Sam Smith wrote something useful!

This is a decent article about the zone that Detroit is using and the effect it is having on our shooters. It's a more detailed version of what I was trying to spit out at the half-time of game two.

So far, I think this has been the defensive key for the Pistons. Rasheed, for as much as I hate him, has been tremendous in the middle of the hybrid 2-3 they run. He is quarterbacking that defense and, thus far, he has made all of the right decisions. The zone has killed our drive and kick offense, limited guard penetration, and taken Gordon out of the game. He can't do anything he wants to. (Further, he pounds the ball far too much against the zone. Obviously, ball movement is the key to beating a zone. He has to adapt, I think.) The length of the Pistons in the zone is also affecting our jump-shooting, forcing us down to about 33% (yikes) for the series!

Unless we can solve the zone and move the ball to the open shooter (and subsequently hit the shot, of course), we'll struggle in the half-court.

As has been pointed out, we can also avoid the zone altogether by getting points in transition.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/columnists/cs-070508smith,1,2572148.column?coll=chi-sportstop-h ed

by 1958ChiTown on May 9, 2007 10:42 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Doug Collins talks too much.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1h2HrdEgKcw&NR=1

Pain and death are part of life. To reject them is to reject life itself.

by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on May 9, 2007 10:44 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Collins

is really at the point of being unbearable. I want Hubie!

I choose to believe.

by preverbal on May 9, 2007 11:42 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Really?

"Now look at the situation we have here: we have Luol Deng, who is one of the finest young players that we have in this League, struggling against Tayshaun Prince, who is also an EXCELLENT defensive presence. The other key for the Chicago Bulls is that Ben Gordon is shooting at a poor percentage and that cannot happen when the rest of your team is struggling."

by paxson43 on May 9, 2007 12:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

collins

i forget if its collins or hubie brown but one of them always points out if the call a referee made is good or bad. i kind of like that makes me feel better about missed calls or wrong calls.

by Sambossanova on May 9, 2007 12:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I love . . .

When Hubie goes out of his way to praise coaches for taking timeouts. "That's a great timeout there by Scott Skiles!"

by Big D on May 9, 2007 7:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

that's funny

but you're right on! He loves the stop-the-bleeding timeout.

by jamestkirk on May 9, 2007 9:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I love Hubbie.

Doug Collins bothers me. He just rambles.Whenever there is a foul he always says young kids coaches always tell you blah blah when it was a bullshit call in the first place.

Pain and death are part of life. To reject them is to reject life itself.

by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on May 9, 2007 10:11 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Awesome game tonight!

Jazz and Warriors. Deron Williams is the man. He is everything you want in a point gaurd. I never thought he'd be this good.

Pain and death are part of life. To reject them is to reject life itself.

by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on May 9, 2007 11:43 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

williams

I am starting to think that he is better than chris paul but that might have to do with the fact that he has more talent around him.

by Sambossanova on May 10, 2007 12:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

ehhhhhh I would take hime over

Hinrich. He just has this way about him. He makes the right passes and hits shots when the Jazz need them.

Pain and death are part of life. To reject them is to reject life itself.

by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on May 10, 2007 1:28 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

him

Pain and death are part of life. To reject them is to reject life itself.

by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on May 10, 2007 1:28 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Draft Lottery is in

12 days.

Pain and death are part of life. To reject them is to reject life itself.

by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on May 10, 2007 1:51 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Pray to the Ping Pong Ball Gods

by SRQman on May 10, 2007 7:29 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Pray to the Ping Pong Ball Gods

by SRQman on May 10, 2007 7:29 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

wow sorry about double post

stupid school internet

by SRQman on May 10, 2007 7:30 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

oh I hought that was by design.

I god how nice would G.O. look in a Bulls uni? Or Al H.?

Pain and death are part of life. To reject them is to reject life itself.

by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on May 10, 2007 9:03 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Greg Oden

in a Bulls Uniform would be pretty damn sexy

by SRQman on May 10, 2007 9:40 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

GAME 3 TONIGHT

We must Bullieve. To all those going to the game tonight, including myself, we need to be very very loud. We need to support our team, and i hope there is no one that boos them if we play poorly for a stretch, we need to energize them. See Golden State. We need to stop acting like the Bulls are horrible, but realizing we have a chance to beat one of the best teams in the league.

We love this team, and me must support them with all our might (and voices).

by Checkster on May 10, 2007 10:58 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

I am going to the game too,

I agree that we must get loud! I am sure there will be a lot of pistons fans cuz when I went to a Bulls-Pistons game in January they came out, but we just need to be so loud that no one notices them. God I hope its an energized crowd..it usually is the 300-level where I will be.

by Squirrley on May 10, 2007 11:04 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'll be watching

Go get 'em.

I choose to believe.

by preverbal on May 10, 2007 12:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah i noticed that

in the first pistons game in jan there were a decent amount of Pistons fans, especially around the corners like section 321. I think it was because it was the first time the Pistons were playing against Wallace after the Bulls signed him. I talked to someone who drove down from Detroit to see that game. Ill be in 325 tonight.

by Checkster on May 10, 2007 1:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I won't have a voice left by the time I leave the

UC.

You can tell a lot of fans have almsot given up on the team, though. My good friend turned down my other ticket after the Game 2 performance. Who the hell turns down a free ticket to a Chicago-Detroit playoff series? People think they have no chance.

Oh, well. I'll be there, full of hate for the Detroit trash. The entire season is on the line tonight. The fans need to demonstrate their passion for the team and the city.

by 1958ChiTown on May 10, 2007 1:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Terrible

"Who the hell turns down a free ticket to a Chicago-Detroit playoff series?"

Well, certainly not someone whom you should consider your good friend.

by paxson43 on May 10, 2007 5:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yes, loud.

Via Thank You Isiah:

5) Any Bulls fans reading this post and attending Game 3 need to make sure that the Pistons cannot hear each other when they're playing defense, much less whatever Saunders is yelling to them. Returning home from the game with your voice intact is unacceptable.

Have a great time at the game tonight. Wish I could be there. GO BULLS!!!!!!

by paxson43 on May 10, 2007 1:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

On another note

I hope Big Ben unleashes the fro. Of course, I want the win but the fro would be an added bonus.

by Squirrley on May 10, 2007 2:50 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

I think Ben

should unleash the headband and the blue wristbands too... with all the help he's giving Detroit, he might as well suit up like the of the Pistons too!

I'm looking for a home.

by Boney on May 10, 2007 2:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs