Core's Potential for Improvement

by wjb1492 on May 25, 2007 1:29 AM CDT Comment 80 comments

[From the Diaries. Lets not turn this into another mind-numbing argument over what makes a 'superstar'...the point is, for any offseason move to make much of an impact, these 3 guys have to get better as well. History shows they will, but by how much and how they fit is the more important question. Now that's something to argue (sorry, 'discuss') over. -Matt]

All of the recent debate over Kirk, Lu and BG's potential for improvement, not to mention over the term "superstar," piqued my curiosity as to what level of improvement other well-known players have experienced at a similar career stage as the core guys are at now. I do not in any way purport that this is a serious scientific study - just my quick perusal of stats found at http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/.

This is the average change in PER for eleven players at each position who have been in the league longer than Hinrich/Deng/Gordon from their season just completed to the one they are about to enter, so 4th-5th for point guards and 3rd-4th for SGs and SFs. No, PER is not perfect, but it is available and it controls for variations in minutes played. As far as selecting which players to look at, I took the top eleven guys that had been in the league long enough from a fantasy basketball preview list for last year - it was convenient. (Obviously this does not mean Hinrich/Deng/Gordon will not do better or worse than the average next year.)

PG - average PER increase of 2.927 from 4th to 5th year

SG - average PER increase of 1.091 from 3rd to 4th year

SF - average PER increase of .709 from 3rd to 4th year

PGs included, with individual increases from high to low: Nash (+6.1), Kidd (+6.1), Iverson (+4.0), B Davis (+3.8), A Miller (+3.7), Billups (+3.5), Parker (+2.8), Bibby (+2.7), Arenas (+2.5), Marbury (-1.0), Terry (-2.0)

SGs included, with individual increases from high to low: McGrady (+4.9), R Bell (+4.8), Bryant (+2.8), J Richardson (+2.2), Allen (+1.7), Wade (+1.3), Ginobili (+0.1), Pierce (0), J Johnson (-0.2), Redd (-1.1), Carter (-4.5)

SFs included, with individual increases from high to low: G Wallace (+3.5), Kirilenko (+1.8), Artest (+1.8), Marion (+1.5), R Lewis (+1.2), Butler (+1.2), Odom (+0.9), Stojakovic (+0.9), Anthony (+0.1), R Jefferson (-1.5), James (-3.6).

I didn't do any analysis for significance, but I thought the PG numbers were especially interesting - with the exceptions of Marbury and Terry, all of those guys had a significant jump in PER in the 5th year. This would definitely seem to support the idea that point guards make significant improvements at a later time in their careers, and possibly bodes well for Kirk (and consequently us!) next year.

(Just to be clear, I did not look at changes over other years, did not consider moves to other teams or changes in teammates or coaches or playing time, and did not take the time to look up injuries.)

FanPosts are user-created posts from the BlogABull community, and are to be treated as the opinions and views of that particular user, not that of the blogger or blog community as a whole.

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Comments

Thats pretty cool

Its a pretty cool hypothesis, i think if you actually took a little more time you can perfect this little research of yours.

Of course the things you admitted to neglect, injuries, trades, previous year pers....that stuff is very important too, especially in evaluation of pers. If you could find out all that information (or if anyone else could, im too lazy myself) then you would have a more accurate representation (did i spell that right?).

Of course, we are looking at the top 11 guys in the positions, which means these guys are sort of special. Not that our guys arent, but wouldnt it be more realistic to look at the middle 11 guys. I could be wrong...anyway like i said, kick ass way of trying to predict the improvement of our core.

im trying hard to become the next kirk hinrich, therefore im doing nothing more than being the next chris duhon.

by piccolomair on May 25, 2007 3:11 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

I just didn't have time

to do anything else with it. That website has a ton of stats, including PER for each player for every year in the league (well, dating back quite a while, anyway - all the active guys have every year). I just wanted a quick way of looking at whether players at a particular position with a given number of years' experience in the league have any kind of general tendency to improve, and to what degree.

Who says it can't be done?

by wjb1492 on May 25, 2007 11:37 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

PER of PG's for their 4th season in the League

Payton 17.86
Kidd 17.41
Hinrich 17.09
Davis 16.88
Parker 16.60
Billups 14.01
Nash 13.98

I know PER isn't the end all and be all of determining a players future, but Kirk seems to be above the curve compared to other PG's at the same point in their careers, So I see no reason why Kirk still won't improve for many years to come.

by Wade.Jones on May 25, 2007 3:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Thanx man

I could see kirk's shot becoming more consistent, im hoping he becomes like nash, who at the age of 33 is in his prime. I think usually the age of 28 is considered the "prime" not that there is any real age where one is at his best.

im trying hard to become the next kirk hinrich, therefore im doing nothing more than being the next chris duhon.

by piccolomair on May 25, 2007 5:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I apologize.

Didn't mean to say or imply that's what you should do. I don't want to be that guy. If I don't have information, I might ask someone for it, but I won't tell anyone to do the research for me. It was just a thought on another way to look at things.

Yes, of course.

by tyger1147 on May 26, 2007 8:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Thanks wjb.

Very interesting.

Who will come and who will go? Stay tuned!

by sue369 on May 25, 2007 9:27 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

mind-numbing for sure

I'm still waiting for the gold/silver/bronze nonsense piece to be brought up. C'mon groupthink!

Speaking of groupthink, I don't think wjb made a mistake by ignoring trades and such. Contract years, and "blossoming with another team" are probably less significant factors in player improvement than we realize.

by Paxson Jackson on May 25, 2007 9:28 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Groupthink

Pax, you suffer from groupthink more than anyone here. Its just that you are in a group of one.

Halloween seems a long way off . . .

by preverbal on May 25, 2007 10:13 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

It's not groupthink if I've looked at things...

...and come to a conclusion on my own. I'm glad you're a mind reader now, too. At least we're all mind readers now and you can stop pretending that we don't already know what everyone else is thinking. Does it work well for you to stereotype people you disagree with so you don't have to take them seriously?

Just because there's a majority opinion, doesn't make it wrong.

Yes, of course.

by tyger1147 on May 25, 2007 10:24 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

self-centered much?

I'm not going to get in this again, I didn't mention you specifically, and I don't care how you came to your weak conclusion. You haven't proved anything.

A study was done on contract years in baseball (bigger sample size, better measurements of performance), and the conclusion was impending free agency doesn't matter much. I wasn't challenging a commonly held idea or opinion for the hell of it.

by Paxson Jackson on May 25, 2007 10:52 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Very self-centered.

Thanks again for the psycho-analysis. So your comment was about free agents performing better? I guess I didn't catch that. My bad. Very, very bad.

Yes, of course.

by tyger1147 on May 25, 2007 2:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Free Agency

Pax: I was a baseball fan long before I was a basketball fan, and have believed for a while the idea you are positing: that it only seems as if players perform better in their walk years, when on average they actually don't. However, I came across this in an article in which Jonah Keri discusses Torii Hunter's impending FA status:

"Numerous studies have refuted many of the game's most sacred old yarns. Clutch hitting? It's mostly a myth. Giving yourself up for the good of the team? Bad idea -- you're probably costing your team runs. But the notion that players perform better in contract years, knowing they're closing in on free agency and a stack of riches? Turns out that's true. A study in "Baseball Between the Numbers" found that on average, players do perform better in their final season before free agency. That's even after accounting for the fact that players often approach their walk year in their late-20s, when many are also at their peak."

I can't speak to the validity of the analysis, as I don't own the abovementioned book and rarely read books about sports that I watch on television. Nonetheless, it is an interesting claim, and the book in question was penned by BaseballProspectus authors, so I would reason that the analysis is fairly systematic and rigorous.

by jpx7 on May 26, 2007 1:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Carlos Zambrano disagrees

I'll have to look at the BP book. The Princeton study pretty much says the opposite, but I don't know the details from BP.

by Paxson Jackson on May 26, 2007 3:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Not today

though he's been helped significantly by a light Dodger lineup.

by jpx7 on May 26, 2007 4:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Certainly you don't value my opinion anymore...

...and I haven't read either of the reports. But from what I've "heard" from knowledgeable people I respect, is that there is, on average, an 8% increase in statistical production in a contract year. And then a smaller decline (from career averages/projections) the following year. The people who said, and again this is just from my memory in comments I've read, is that players in walk years will produce higher counting stats because they'll play more--most likely playing through minor injuries they may have sat through before. The decline comes from playing less--maybe from sitting during even the smallest of injuries feeling the financial security.

As I said, I haven't read the reports, so this can all be thrown out if one so chooses.

OTOH, we can always point to an exception to any rule when human beings and relatively (compared to general human behavior) small sample sizes are measured.

Adrian Beltre is one--he "finally" fulfilled his potential in 2004, never really being close any year before or after.

Carlos Zambrano is the other--who has pitched as many pitches since 2002 since almost anyone (couldn't find the leader board).

Yes, of course.

by tyger1147 on May 26, 2007 8:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Greater playing-time

Interesting theory, but I am pretty sure BP would have corrected for games played in any analysis -- likely by avoiding counting statistics like Ks, Ws, HRs or RBI in favor of rate statistics like OPS, RC, dERA and other more advanced metrics.

Like I said, I am fairly disinclined to buy the book (and it is one of the few types of books not readily available in Hyde Park), but having read BP online for a few years, I would expect a fairly solid statistical approach.

by jpx7 on May 27, 2007 3:22 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

agreed

That was my problem with the Princeton study. It used a sum of production, although it was a sum of singles, doubles, triples, and dingers... which is a lot easier to stomach than R(s)BI or batting average. I assume BP used statistics that tell more of the story, but I'm still okay with waving the Princeton study around (for now).

Playing with an injury most likely means poor production, so I don't see how that makes a player look better statistically, unless you're looking at the wrong metrics.

by Paxson Jackson on May 27, 2007 7:40 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Doesn't necessarily mean poor production.

In 162 games, I'm sure there are plenty of times when a player "just doesn't feel like it", but can still get near-exact same production, if not the same. A throbbing ingrown toenail, a stiff back, neck spasms, these are all things that if treated correctly pre-game, probably wouldn't cause a decline in productivity (in baseball anyway). They are, however, injuries that someone might not want to play through if he doesn't need to; or injuries that a wrong twist or something could exacerbate the injury, where a couple of extra days rest might "heal" the problem (as much as injury can be healed in baseball).

A strained hamstring is another example. It might be sore, and for a speed guy could hurt his SB's, but it doesn't have a lot to do with swinging a bad. Over a season he could lose some at-bats to not being able to run out grounders, doubles, etc. But coming back one week early? Maybe he loses one hit, maybe none.

Yes, of course.

by tyger1147 on May 27, 2007 11:49 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah...

Pro athletes go on the DL and IR because they are wimps. I forgot. Your speedy guy racks up outs and hurts the team even more than his weak slugging normally does. How about we drop baseball yack?

by Paxson Jackson on May 27, 2007 12:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Jesus, you're a dick.

You do have to reply to everything, don't you? And you always have to twist words (or simply make shit up) to make yourself right, huh? I didn't say anything about the DL, did I? I don't recall Alfonso Soriano or Derek Lee going on the DL, and those were the exact sort of situations I was thinking of.

And what speedy guy are you talking about? Grady Sizemore hurts his team, huh? Or how about Ryan Theriot? Does he hurt the team, too. Pro athletes are indistinguishable and have exact same skillsets. There can't be a pro athlete who is fast AND has a good OBP, is there? Not everyone is a 40-40. I forgot.

Wow, you are just an asshole, plain and simple.

Yes, of course.

by tyger1147 on May 27, 2007 2:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Jesus blocked me on AIM

The point of linking to the Princeton study was to point out a probable myth about pro sports in general, not to read your half-baked, half-heard thoughts on baseball. You could be typing away about the BP book, and not even realize it. So what's the point of chiming in with stolen bases, and when a player "just doesn't feel like it?" On a case by case basis, I'm sure there are players that match your little examples, but we're looking at a much larger sample size. Enough with the baseball yack.

by Paxson Jackson on May 27, 2007 2:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

None of my business, but . . .

since I've been subjected to reading it, Pax, you were the one who started talking about baseball in this thread, so "stop the baseball yack" is a bit of a weak comeback.

More broadly, as a regular reader and relatively frequent poster on this blog, it is amazing to me how dedicated you seem to be to denigrating other people's comments.

Halloween seems a long way off . . .

by preverbal on May 27, 2007 11:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Last time I checked

basketball was the focus here, and Tyger's staunch Pro-Cliche stance is superduper annoying.

by Paxson Jackson on May 28, 2007 8:07 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

What other cliche's am I using?

Your comment, of course, implies that your comments aren't superduperooper annoying to the majority of readers here.

Keep at it! PaxJax: Advocate for those who need to constantly put others down. Whoohoo!

Yes, of course.

by tyger1147 on May 28, 2007 12:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Would you two

please stop this?

Who will come and who will go? Stay tuned!

by sue369 on May 28, 2007 12:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

but I didn't start it :(

by Paxson Jackson on May 28, 2007 2:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I know

Who will come and who will go? Stay tuned!

by sue369 on May 28, 2007 2:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Anything by "tyger1147"

you, and everyone else, should just skip over it. Have I written anything that has enlightened anyone? Probably not. I understand once every 20 comments or so PaxJax enlightens, so I would suggest not skipping stuff he writes.

Yes, of course.

by tyger1147 on May 28, 2007 6:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Enough baseball yack?

Didn't you say that once already? I don't do what you tell me to, but apparently you don't either. Incredible one you are.

PaxJax: "You must stop talking about baseball here. This case is closed. But I'm going to talk about it some more, because I must constantly respond to everything. So there."

Yes, of course.

by tyger1147 on May 28, 2007 12:16 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

point was

to relate it to basketball, not to debate stolen bases. jpx7 actually had a good point about the study's validity. Hello! Basketball blog.

by Paxson Jackson on May 28, 2007 8:14 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Incredible.

Yes, of course.

by tyger1147 on May 28, 2007 10:57 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

The only thing that's amazing

is your willingness to continue to comment on and dispute something that you admittedly won't take the time to read, and know very little about. Your one word, snide comments don't have much punch if you won't be bothered to understand what the discussion is about.

by Paxson Jackson on May 28, 2007 11:16 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

whoops

"The only thing that's incredible..."

It's tough to keep your wittiness straight.

by Paxson Jackson on May 28, 2007 11:19 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'm confused...

Maybe I don't completely understand the philosophy behind "groupthink," but pointing out positional improvement from year to year hardly seems like floating consensus opinion. In fact, even if the diary were to use the certain personalities of "groupthink," no opinion or conclusion was made, or conversely, avoided.

It's seems less like the idea behind the assumed improvement in a 3rd year WR in the NFL (something a group of people just about swear by), than someone positing some hope in Bulls fans.

I'm sorry, Pax Jax, but while your thoughts can be lucid, I wonder if you're just a Negative Nancy at heart. I think I'm gonna start calling Socrates since you challenge just about everything (which probably isn't a bad thing).

As for wjb's diary and research, the (pretty objective...yes, he was wise not to include player movement from team to team) numbers only excite -- in a sabrmetric kind of way -- this Bulls fan. I only hope that other 4th year SF's like Dorell Wright and Trevor Ariza don't overtake Luol.

Sweet Home Sports

by james@lifeinthecell on May 26, 2007 7:20 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

um

The groupthink comment was regarding the 1,000,000 'superstar' comments over the course of the season. I never stated a problem with wjb's diary. She did a good job, and doesn't need a pat on the back from me.

by Paxson Jackson on May 26, 2007 8:38 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think it'd be interesting...

...to compare the jumps (or lack thereof) in PER of the players that are closest by age. Quintin Daily, for example, has been Ben Gordon's closest by age the past two years. They also both happen to be the same ages in those years, too. (the age thing is a little screwy.)

Daily did make a PER jump of nearly 3 between his 3rd and 4th year. There's a lot more analysis to be done to this, but I'm "working" so I don't have a ton of time (and I'm not good with stats anyway). But I think that would be another way to explore it.

(They're obviously not the same player, as Ben takes way more threes.)

Yes, of course.

by tyger1147 on May 25, 2007 10:18 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Top 11

I think the choice of the top 11 guys for comparison is reasonable (though I can't say its more reasonable than top 10 or top 12). Its a large enough sample, and I assume the thinking is that our guys are somewhere in that mix (if our guys aren't in the top 11 at their positions, we shouldn't be calling them our core).

Interesting post. Nice job, particularly since we have no playoff excitement left. On an off-topic note, is it just me or have the playoffs completely lost their appeal? On some level, I feel almost guilty, like I am a homer more than a basketball fan, but more fundamentally, the conference semi-finals were just brutal -- no more Phoenix, GSW, or Bulls, the three most fun teams to watch.

Now, we're left with JaBron Lames going one-on-one at the end of every game. FAN-tastic!

Halloween seems a long way off . . .

by preverbal on May 25, 2007 11:18 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

You are correct, sir

I am totally tuned out of the playoffs. I might care a wee bit more if I didn't hate each remaining team, though. I never liked the Jazz since their rivalry with the Bulls. I don't care for the Spurs anymore due to...recent events. Pistons, don't need to explain there. And as for Cleveland, James seems like a douche with a high school education, which makes him some kind of obtuse, super-douche. If the Suns had moved on, I might continue watching, but that's it for me.

Why oh why can't the NFL season start when the NBA season ends?

by Craig Hodges Explosion 3000 on May 25, 2007 12:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Not

a baseball fan?

Who will come and who will go? Stay tuned!

by sue369 on May 25, 2007 12:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Love the Cubs

But, I don't watch more than a few games a month until the playoff hunt nears, if they are in it. I was talking with my brother, and we agreed that whenever the Cubs play a good team, we have no faith that they will actually win. Call it irrational, or pessimistic, but it makes it tough to root with any intensity.

Plus, MLB is the only sport that I have absolutely zero interest in watching unless it's my team.

You're on the Bleed Cubbie Blue blog, aren't you?

by Craig Hodges Explosion 3000 on May 25, 2007 12:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yes I am.

Who will come and who will go? Stay tuned!

by sue369 on May 25, 2007 2:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Me too

I haven't taken the time to watch a single game since the Bulls were eliminated. I can't say I'm interested in any of the teams remaining. I have not done this in year's past. This year just seems different.

In Pax we Trust!

by Jobu on May 25, 2007 1:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I watched last night

but just the last few minutes. Kinda boring. King James seems like Queen James.

Bears moving dynamic Hester to offense!

by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on May 25, 2007 1:17 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Personally

I like my freshly-minted new slur: "JaBron Lames"

Halloween seems a long way off . . .

by preverbal on May 25, 2007 1:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Our guys would have put up a better shot than

Hughes did at the end of the game. Deng, Kurt or BG would have made that chippy and won the game.

I'm still in Bulls withdrawal. I hang onto everything NBA basketball until there is nothing left - - about August. Baseball doesn't seem to grab me. I look even look forward to the 2007 - 2008 schedule coming out.

I believe in the growth potential of our guys. I am hoping we can get someone down low in the draft who can impact the game. I really think you will see our guards truly shine with a impact low post presence.

by chgobr on May 25, 2007 3:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Who's Kurt?

Who will come and who will go? Stay tuned!

by sue369 on May 25, 2007 4:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Sue - my sincere apologies.

Kurt is Kirk's twin. This is not the first time I've messed up Hinrich's name. I have a friend at work Kurt and cannot seem to distinguish him from our hero.

by chgobr on May 26, 2007 9:13 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I knew who

you meant. I was just giving you a bad time.

Who will come and who will go? Stay tuned!

by sue369 on May 26, 2007 10:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Great analysis, wjb.

I'm unfortunately not visiting this site as much as I use to because of a time-consuming internship, but I took good time to read this. Good stuff

Rasheed Wallace likes to comment about guys' butts. -"Them butt holes got tighter and TIGHTER."

by NittanyBull on May 25, 2007 5:40 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Didn't have a spot for this

but I had to post this pic I found.

Sue you will be proud.

I want Hawes.

by SRQman on May 27, 2007 1:46 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Thanks Flabull

Another pic for the vault. ;-)

Who will come and who will go? Stay tuned!

by sue369 on May 27, 2007 12:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I have never seen him dunk

so this picture was a shock to me

I want Hawes.

by SRQman on May 27, 2007 12:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I knew he

had dunked but I had never seen it either so thanks again.

Who will come and who will go? Stay tuned!

by sue369 on May 27, 2007 3:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Miles gave me a youtube video of this

dunk(I'm thinking it was the same game as it was agains the Cavaliers). I wish I saved it in my account, but to no avail =(

Rasheed Wallace likes to comment about guys' butts. -"Them butt holes got tighter and TIGHTER."

by NittanyBull on May 27, 2007 4:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Wow if you can find that video

THAT WOULD BE INSANE!

I want Hawes.

by SRQman on May 27, 2007 4:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I was just looking for it right now

if you and some others would like to see it, but the Youtube maintenance removed it "due to terms of violation." Here's the convo though.

Stupid Youtube.

Rasheed Wallace likes to comment about guys' butts. -"Them butt holes got tighter and TIGHTER."

by NittanyBull on May 27, 2007 4:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Lame youtube

that sucks.

I want Hawes.

by SRQman on May 27, 2007 5:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Wasnt the video

really bad quality, they took a camera to the tv i believe.
At any rate it's not a spectacular dunk, he runs the baseline goes up and drops it in, nothing with authority.

im trying hard to become the next kirk hinrich, therefore im doing nothing more than being the next chris duhon.

by piccolomair on May 27, 2007 6:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Hello its Kirk Hinrich

everything he does is with authoritay.

I want Hawes.

by SRQman on May 27, 2007 7:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Your right

Where was my head...well

Heres something if you want to see hinrich at his best (sort of), and what might become if collison joins the bulls

http://youtube.com/watch?v=6IroDbPpwlM

oh yea, hinrich does some dunking here too!!

im trying hard to become the next kirk hinrich, therefore im doing nothing more than being the next chris duhon.

by piccolomair on May 28, 2007 1:19 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I never

watched them when they were in college so that was fun to watch. Thanks!

Who will come and who will go? Stay tuned!

by sue369 on May 28, 2007 10:01 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Fun to watch

Helps my Bulls withdrawal blues!

by chgobr on May 28, 2007 10:16 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Agree

I miss the Bulls

I want Hawes.

by SRQman on May 28, 2007 10:26 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Me, too

I'm so desperate for my Bulls fix that I spend hours playing with their season stats and am counting down till the draft. It's going to be a long offseason. :(

Who says it can't be done?

by wjb1492 on May 28, 2007 11:07 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Thank God for the draft pick

My second summer highlight will be when the schedule comes out. I think it is in August.

by chgobr on May 28, 2007 11:18 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Wow I can't wait for schedule

I think I am going to use the majority of my money from my summer job/birthday for tickets to the Bulls. Ahhh I miss it so much.

I want Hawes.

by SRQman on May 28, 2007 11:26 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Maybe you guys

should find a girl friend to pass the time. Might take your mind of the Bulls...well at least for a while any way. :)

Who will come and who will go? Stay tuned!

by sue369 on May 28, 2007 12:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

hahaha

I am working on that.

I want Hawes.

by SRQman on May 28, 2007 12:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

You need some real advice

Listen to this guy, Alan Arkin

"This is the voice of experience talking."

(Just a funny, not to be taken personal)

Rasheed Wallace likes to comment about guys' butts. -"Them butt holes got tighter and TIGHTER."

by NittanyBull on May 28, 2007 1:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

hahaah

I haven't seen this movie but this scene is hilarious.

I want Hawes.

by SRQman on May 28, 2007 1:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think I

need to see that movie.

Who will come and who will go? Stay tuned!

by sue369 on May 28, 2007 2:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Ah well

Time to pop in Ultimate Jordan and the Dynasty Series Dvds once again...

by Hiryu on May 29, 2007 3:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think I

found the huge poster of Kirk. Looks like he has a little stach goin on.

http://www.flickr.com:80/photos/swanksalot/518842819/

Who will come and who will go? Stay tuned!

by sue369 on May 30, 2007 7:01 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

it looks like

they colored in the stubble a bit to fill it out. I do the same thing on my own face though, so who am I to judge.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 30, 2007 9:07 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

LOL

I should have spelled stache right tho. Shame on me.

Who will come and who will go? Stay tuned!

by sue369 on May 30, 2007 9:12 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I still think it's awesome

I remember him commenting on a huge Lebron billboard a while back, about how weird it would be - guess he knows for sure now.

Can't find the quote though. :(

Who says it can't be done?

by wjb1492 on May 30, 2007 1:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Definitely awesome!!

Who will come and who will go? Stay tuned!

by sue369 on May 30, 2007 1:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Umm

Would kirk also have his own extremely cheap (yet astonishingly tough) brand of b-ball shoes. I would SO get a pair!!!

im trying hard to become the next kirk hinrich, therefore im doing nothing more than being the next chris duhon.

by piccolomair on Jun 1, 2007 3:19 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Maybe someday.

Who will come and who will go? Stay tuned!

by sue369 on Jun 1, 2007 7:36 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Draft Pick

I have an idea. Bulls should use the draft pick and some by-players like Duhon, Sweetney and Allen to free cap room for Rehard Lewis. We need a post-player bad, and Lewis can fit that bill. He's also a threat from distance and that can only be good for us. It's win-win. We have enough young bright stars. We just need an edge to make it to the big gala party after th nba finals next year.

by blackmage71 on May 27, 2007 9:52 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs