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(most) Everybody loves Tyrus

[Except Paul Ladewski (or more his headline editor) who tries to compare the relative draft value of Tyrus and Jason Maxiell, despite the fact that Maxiell is 3-1/2 years older. Although I do think Maxiell is pretty damned good, and balances out the Pistons' otherwise decrepit front line. But I digress...]

There's a difference between 'energy' player, and 'dunk on your head' player. The former implies that anyone could do it if they gave the effort. And Tyrus Thomas isn't just anyone.

And since I find box scores as entertaining as highlights, here's the last 3 games for Tyrus:

MIN   PTS FGM-A   FTM-A   OFF   DEF   REB   AST   STL   BLK   TO   PF  
26 8 3-9 2-5 2 6 8 3 1 3 0 3
39 27 9-11 9-10 2 6 8 1 3 3 1 2
27 13 5-9 3-4 6 4 10 1 1 1 3 1

What's even better than the production is seeing the lack of mistakes. Tyrus is obviously learning quickly on the job, gaining minutes by reducing his fouls and turnovers. That's a big credit to both him and Scott Skiles. I thought Dan Bernstein made a great point last week when he cited Tyrus' development as evidence that flew in the face of the conventional wisdom that Skiles can't coach the 'typical' NBA athlete. Tyrus may have shown immaturity early this season, and most of us have questioned Skiles' allocation of playing time to him, but I have to give them each credit because the results are there: Tyrus has become a contributor just in time for the playoffs.

And the blessing in disguise may have been the injury to Andres Nocioni, who's weeks-long absence opened up playing time for Tyrus. Now that he may come back soon, will that change? Quoteth the Skiles:

"I went to Tyrus immediately and said, 'OK, I'm going to try to get you 20 minutes a game, in that area, 20-plus. Be ready.' And I was able to know that I could promise him that and not go back on that promise. Now Nocioni is going to come back here at some point, and Tyrus has proven himself to be a capable player. But we miss Nocioni from a spacing standpoint -- his three-point shooting, his toughness. He leads our team in taking charges, just a bunch of little things. It's something, hopefully, within the next 10 days, [Nocioni] suits up for a game and we have a little bit of time to figure it out before we actually get into a series."

Now, this team (and Tyrus) isn't good enough now where I'd suggest getting a good player like Nocioni back is somehow going to screw things up. While I sometimes roll my eyes at Noc love, that was mostly out of disagreement over his perceived role on the team. But while losing him wasn't the deathblow that his adulators would've imagined, it did reveal that he's still needed: this bench sucks without him.

Nocioni's injury coupled with moving Ben Gordon to the starting lineup exposed a gaping wound in the preseason idea that this team was deep. With Duhon, Griffin, and Thomas they may be deep with defenders, but Skiles is right about needing Noc's shooting. But where I didn't want him to shoot so damned much to take away shots from Gordon, Hinrich, and Deng, the team could use him to come off the bench in spots to provide shots when those players are on the bench. I've seen too many 2nd quarters lately where Malik Allen is the secondary option on the court.

So I wouldn't see it as Noc taking minutes from Thomas, but instead from Allen or Khryapa. I want Noc back, but in that role. Because his old one has been taken by Tyrus Thomas.

0 recs  |  Comment 53 comments

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I thought like spacing was the one area the Bulls
really felt Noc's loss.  The team seemed a 3-point shooter short even before Noc went out.  The Bulls only have four guys on the entire roster with 3-point range.  With Noc out, Duhon has been the only player on the bench that can make a jump shot outside 18 feet.  Unfortunately the only way Duhon helps the spacing is in that awful 3 guard lineup.

I also doubt whether both Noc and Thomas can both come off the bench effectively.  Neither can play center, but both are at their best at power forward.  If Noc is effective (better than Griff, Allen, and Sweetney) when he comes back, then I think Thomas needs to start to make the rotations work.  

by Scotter on Apr 2, 2007 10:26 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

3-4-5
Noc could always play alongside Tyrus as forwards when Deng gets a rest. Brown can become the backup center to Wallace in that scenario.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 2, 2007 10:54 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Whats the Big deal?
You can't lose with this. With Nocioni's energy and toughness and Tyrus being the freak he is blocking shoots tip dunks whatever I love this.

Look at the Cleveland home game inwhich we beat them. Nocioni was huge in the start of the game. His 3pt shooting will take pressure off of Ben Gordon and don't forget how big he plays in playoff games.

I think both Tyrus and Nocioni are active energy players. I wouldn't mind een seeing some lineups like...

Hinrich
Gordon
Deng
Nocioni
Thomas

by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on Apr 2, 2007 10:52 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Who guards
Shaq, KG, Elton Brand, hell, even Zydrunas whatever on Cleveland with that lineup on the floor?

Unless the opposing coach is a complete dolt (which I won't rule out), they'll immediately go big on that lineup and abuse TT in the post.

by Chalkwhite on Apr 3, 2007 4:08 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

That's why it's called a mismatch,
and I doubt the Bulls will have to worry about KG or Brand in the playoffs. Skiles likes small vs. big (maybe he has to because the Bulls are always small), but it should produce turnovers and fast break oppurtunities that give a jump shooting team high percentage shots.

by Paxson Jackson on Apr 3, 2007 9:06 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Having to worry about KG or Brand
in the playoffs is a problem I'd love to have.
Obama 2008 Obama 2012

by Colossus on Apr 3, 2007 2:34 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I didn't
mean nessecarily for the playoffs, but here are the current playoff matchups-

Miami- Shaq/Mourning
Detroit- Sheed/Weber/McDyess
Cleveland- Z-man/Gooden/Varejao

And then, if we get to the finals (God willing) we'll get Dirk and co., or Duncan, or Stoudemire, or maybe (maybe) Yao or Boozer.

I really don't see that being a viable lineup in the playoffs. We still need SOME height, even in today's fast game.

by Chalkwhite on Apr 4, 2007 3:53 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yup
That's why it's called a mismatch.

by Paxson Jackson on Apr 4, 2007 8:56 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

lol
You know it's funny... I was reading the first two sentences and before I could move the mouse down to see the last sentence and the possible lineup you posted.. I was thinking the exact thing. It's going to come down to that in a lot of the playoffs games or atleast 2..just watch!

by chitown2atl on Apr 3, 2007 5:29 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

better but still concern
I feel giddy thinking about Tyrus and Noc subbing in for each other all game. We need them. I don't see us beating Detroit, Cleve, or Miami in a 7 game series without Ty and Noc playing +.

by chicago-homesick-blues on Apr 2, 2007 11:14 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

FanHouse enjoys T-Time also
Shoals at the FanHouse posted these highlights from the ATL game yesterday.

by paxson43 on Apr 2, 2007 11:26 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Right On
Couldn't agree with you more, Matt.  A lot will depend on matchups.  For instance, if we face Cleveland at some point, they have three very tall dudes which means more from Wallace and PJ.  But if we play a team like, say Washington, where they have no capable centers, then PJ gets fewer minutes and we go with a smaller, quicker lineup.  Nocioni is the key to that "flexibility" everyone always mentioned with this team.  That and the shooting range which will make teams pay for packing into the lane on Ben Gordon's drives.

I just hope that (a) he's healthy and (b) he hasn't lost his shooting touch.  He could very well be the difference between an early exit and [gulp] the NBA Finals.

by corey williams corey benjamin on Apr 3, 2007 12:05 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

no capable centers?
I seem to remember Brendan Haywood killing us on the glass in the past.

by james@lifeinthecell on Apr 3, 2007 5:17 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Haywood's domination
 was pre-Big Ben. I don't see Haywood dominating him in the postseason. call me crazy.

by fundamentallysound on Apr 3, 2007 11:52 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Capable?
I was mainly referring to the issue of offensive production and therefore a defensive matchup requiring the Bulls to play PJ and Body together.  Considering Haywood is averaging 6.8 points per game, I would not call him capable.  [This year vs. Bulls:  5.0 ppg, 5.7 rpg]

Actually the thing I remember most about him regarding the Bulls was after Arenas hit that shot in Game 5 two years ago.  He ran across the court and taunted two fans sitting courtside (supposedly they started it).

by corey williams corey benjamin on Apr 4, 2007 10:23 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well
Haywood is not even pleying much anyway.
They'd have to deal with Thomas. But this Bulls team is by no means the same as two years ago. They still only have two big guys who share minutes and don't do much.
Get with it!

by Goostafer on Apr 4, 2007 11:09 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

This team is so much better now
With Ty2 playing as good as he is. It has been great to see him develop and Skiles has proved that he is a really good NBA coach

by roach on Apr 3, 2007 1:07 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Oh my F-ing gosh!
This guy does two or three things crazy every night. The League is now getting dunked on, god im so glad we drafted him.

by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on Apr 3, 2007 2:24 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I think
It makes the rest of the players remember how much they should enjoy playing basketball for a living.
Deng, he's good!!!!!!!!!

by cubbybear on Apr 3, 2007 10:32 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

the rotation is no doubt interesting now
especially with Peej's comments that he's thinking about retirement.  

I like Peej, I think he's been fundamental in tyrus's development, and he's tall.  I like that Pax didn't trade him for many reasons, but number one in that would have hurt tt's progress.  great character guy, height, asset to the team, all that.  

but if Noc comes back in midseason form, I'd like to see Noc start, with tt his backup for the sixth man.  Peej, I'd like to see swing as backup to center and power forward.  Peej looks like he's getting older and he's making too many early fouls nowadays to maintain his starter status.

that being said, I'd like to see pax sign PJ for something like 3-3.5 mil WITH a no trade clause.  it'd help to keep him on the bench and foster TT's development.

by brianmita on Apr 3, 2007 5:59 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Peej gone
Sweetney also gone. Peej talking about retirement and I think he should retire. We need some bigs with talent.

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/basketball/bulls/cs-070402bulls,1,7690997.story?coll= cs-home-headlines

by boerwinkle on Apr 3, 2007 7:53 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

that's an expensive coach
(hell, hire him as a coach and then he doesn't count against the cap.)

I think the whole 'fostering' thing doesn't happen as much as we think. PJ wants to play like everyone else. I'd think he'll either go somewhere for more minutes or retire.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 3, 2007 11:16 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

cant give no trade clause
hasnt been with us long enough

i beleive skils and pax should sit down with peej and ask what he wants. If its reasonable, sign him for 1 year; gentleman's no trade agreement, and then further gentlemans agreement to hire him as a coach....evidnelty tyrus really looks up to peej, and you can see tyrus is slowing losing the cocky youth atitude he had earlier this year

by milesgmsu on Apr 6, 2007 8:52 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

How good will TT become?
I'm a bit giddy over TTs performance the last few games.  This leads me to mull the question, could TT could become a top five NBA player?  I am surprised by how good a passer he has become as well as how quickly he seems to have learned to cut down on his fouls.  His 15 foot shot has gone from a joke to a possible consistent threat.  His ability to block shots continues to amaze me and his foul shooting has dramatically improved.  Plus, he just turned 20 years old.  

Let me share something that I never thought I would say - - if we end up with the 9-13 pick do we need to force a pick for a center or should we go after the best talent?  I believe Miami needed a big man in the 2004 draft and surprised everyone by taking DWade.  Maybe we could get a top player and then trade for a serviceable center.  Also, I now thinking we should do everything to keep Noc.  We need him off the bench and I tend to agree with JoeJoe above that against a smaller lineup you could play TT and Noc together.  

TT makes me smile.

chgobr

by chgobr on Apr 3, 2007 8:44 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Best player available . . .
I was thinking the same thing watching the last two Florida games.  I had fantasies of drafting Brewer and playing him at the 2, then trading Gordon and Noc and spare parts for a good big (in the dream scenario Gasol).

Could Brewer play the 2 in the NBA?  If all that happened, you'd have

Gasol
Big Ben, TT
Deng
Brewer, Sefolosha
Hinrich, Duhon

That's a pretty "long" team.  I'm not sure Brewer can play 2, but he is awfully quick for his size.

B-jizzle my dribble!

by preverbal on Apr 3, 2007 9:05 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I was really impressed with Brewer last night.
He probably will be taken by the time we pick, but you never know.  If he is available it would be hard to let him go.
chgobr

by chgobr on Apr 3, 2007 10:46 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Brewer's stock is way up
I think he played himself solidly into the 6-9 range of the draft, if not top 5. I'd be surprised if the Knicks pick is high enough to grab him. The upside is that some decent bigs will likely slide. I'm thinking Roy Hibbert (who Sports Guy likes) will be the guy Paxson goes after.

by paxson43 on Apr 3, 2007 10:49 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I know others don't like Hibbert
because of his lack of athleticism, but I think he has the other things that helps bigs: touch. Georgetown ran the Princeton style offense about 40% of the time through the year with Hibbert or Green sharing time passing from the high-post. Only as Hibbert became more effective scoring near the basket did he leave the free-throw area.

Hibbert's definitely a project, and he'll never be a Top 5 Center, but coming into a team where he'd never be likely more than the 6th or 7th scoring option, I think he could do well. Maybe he could learn a lot about passing from Ben Wallace.

I dunno, I probably overrate him. I'm just a fan of his "story" and was surprised by the offensive prowess he showed since late-February.

by tyger1147 on Apr 3, 2007 11:16 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

can't put him on the floor with Wallace
if he has no offensive game.  That's how the Bulls get killed now.  Whoever is at the 4 has to compensate offensively for Wallace or the offensive becomes nothing but jumpshots.  Although, in the long run, Hibbert would probably take over at the 5 for Wallace.

by bullshooter on Apr 3, 2007 11:20 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Exactly...
Although, in the long run, Hibbert would probably take over at the 5 for Wallace.

This is what I would like to see happen.  I would also take Hawes for this same role.

The red and white

by Scott 9 on Apr 3, 2007 12:32 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

From the scouting reports
Hawes has the offensive game to play next to Wallace now.

by bullshooter on Apr 3, 2007 12:50 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I can't believe
everyone is talking about drafting Brewer now. He's not worth it. Everyone knows how valuable Gordon is now, even if he is undersized.

The Pistons did it in the 80's, The Bulls can do it now.

Draft the best big man regardless of pick and who's available.

AIM screen name : Option27

by Option27 on Apr 3, 2007 12:51 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

agreed
I understood the reasoning behind replacing Gordon when he wasn't starting. If the organization didn't find his contributions valuable enough to start him, why keep fucking around with a platoon system? But now it's just people upset about some close losses, and some impatience over his development (fouls/turnovers). He's improved quite a bit this season, and I don't see why he won't be better in the next one. The players that really haven't lived up to snuff this season have been Sefolosha and Veektor. Trade those guys.

by Paxson Jackson on Apr 3, 2007 12:59 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Gordon
I'd argue is even more valuable as a scorer off of the bench.  Much like Noc, it's a question of price.  The problem is that Gordon is a much better starter than Duhon....

by bullshooter on Apr 3, 2007 1:19 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't get it
bench scoring isn't more valuable than starting scoring. He needs to be on the court and scoring!

If you're saying they should keep gordon on the bench to purposely depress his value, well that's just mean.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 3, 2007 1:23 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Let me explain then
I think it's possible to find a 2 guard who scores nearly as much as Gordon, but maybe plays better D, or turns the ball over less.  Doesn't mean I don't like Gordon, just that I think Gordon is gifted scorer who doesn't do other things as well.  If we got a bigger two guard who could guard the bigger back court opponent, Hinrich could guard the smaller backcourt opponent and our backcourt defense would be much improved.  I don't think I have to point to any examples in the Bulls past.  I want Gordon on the team, but I am not convinced he's the best fit at starting off guard.  But even so, that's not the biggest hole on the team right now, so it's not worth addressing until other problems are taken care of.

by bullshooter on Apr 3, 2007 1:31 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

the original point
if our pick comes up and we can't trade it for somebody we need and brewer is the best guy on the board versus some 7 foot project, I'd take brewer.

by bullshooter on Apr 3, 2007 1:34 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ok
Most players in the NBA have flaws except a few that you can maybe count on one hand.

You're pretty much saying he should be on the bench cause of his height.

I know he's not as good as players like Wade and Iverson (yet) but that never cause them to move to the bench.

AIM screen name : Option27

by Option27 on Apr 3, 2007 1:36 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Gordon can still improve the turnovers,
and he'll probably get more calls too (I know I'm repeating myself). As far as defense goes he is at a disadvantage size-wise, but no one can really play tough defense on the perimeter without ending up in foul trouble. Scoring guards are pretty much handcuffed on one end of the floor so they can stay in the game. Kobe Bryant's D is a myth (not mythical) at this point, and there aren't any other high scoring wings with even a whiff of a reputation as a defender.

by Paxson Jackson on Apr 3, 2007 1:41 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think that arguement died a while ago
The only reason he was valuable off the bench is cause the Bulls had no real bench scoring.

Now that Noc has moved there, that's not a problem anymore.

As most know here, Ben scores a whole lot for the amount of minutes he gets

That kind of scoring ability should not be wasted just sitting on the bench. As long as Ben can stay outta foul trouble and have less turnovers, he'll be in the game much like Tyrus.

AIM screen name : Option27

by Option27 on Apr 3, 2007 1:30 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Thabo?
Got to keep Gordon for scoring, but I do think the Bulls management has to take hard look at Thabo before draft.  If they don't think he can become productive bench player then they might have shot at Brewer who looks like he could be defensive and energy player at 2 and 3 behind Gordon and Deng off bench.

The real issue is Brewer and Thabo seem to be redundant.  So if they think Thabo is a player they should try and grab a PF/C.

by NY Chicago Fan on Apr 3, 2007 8:44 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

sefo
hard to live up to hype when you get no PT....and when he does get PT ive been impressed

couldnt agree with you more about veektor

by milesgmsu on Apr 6, 2007 8:55 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Noc will take Deng's minutes
The Bulls still don't have a prototypical 3, just a bunch of 3/4's, and Deng is one of them along with Noc and Tyrus.  All three of those guys can rotate with a few minutes going to PJ and maybe Allen.  Everybody wonders why Deng doesn't step up more in big games.  It's because he has had to play 40+ minutes consistently.  You can't expect a guy to take over at the end of the third quarter when he's already played 30 minutes.  Go back and look at the box scores and you'll see that Deng plays 40+ way too often.  He needs to get that down to 30-36 a night and he will be a lot more effective at  the end.  

by bullshooter on Apr 3, 2007 9:53 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Deng's big game struggles have less
to do with the minutes he plays and more to do with his skill set.  The core of Deng's offense are open mid-range jumpers and cuts to the basket.  Those opportunities tend to disappear against the better defensive teams.  When his skill set increases, his production in big games will increase.

Gordon and Hinrich have the skill set to take players off the dribble and create space against better defenders, Deng doesn't yet.  Even Noc with his 3-point range as an undersized 4 has an easier time coming up big against better defenses.

Deng is getting there.  I've seen him dribble laterally to create space for his jump shot more  and more.  He gets into the post much faster when he has a mismatch.  Those two things are going to be keys for Deng against better teams because I doubt Deng's first step will ever be good enough to allow him to get directly to the basket.  If you watch Deng drive, he circles around the basket because he can't get by his defender.  I still think Deng is the team's best player, he just doesn't have the skill set to have sucess against the better defenses so far.  The upside is that is easier to learn skills with the ball, than it is to learn to play well off the ball.

by Scotter on Apr 3, 2007 2:19 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

that
and the fact that he plays the entire second half in close games.

by bullshooter on Apr 3, 2007 2:40 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

lol
Your subject almost made me mad. But as I read the whole thing I understood what you were saying. And I think that it makes a lot of sense.

by chitown2atl on Apr 3, 2007 5:13 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

thanks
I am glad somebody actually reads the posts.

by bullshooter on Apr 3, 2007 10:37 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm hearing Noce is running
He is looking for playing time as soon as Friday. This would be good since we can work him into the mix a litlle before the playoffs start.

by boerwinkle on Apr 3, 2007 1:33 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Lightning doesn't strike the same place twice
http://columbian.com/sports/blazerbanter/
The dizziness and accelerated heart rate rookie LaMarcus Aldridge experienced during Saturday's loss to the Los Angeles Clippers has caused more concern and a need for further examination than was initially expected.

Blazers general manager Kevin Pritchard on Tuesday said Aldridge would miss Wednesday's game against Utah and will be out indefinitely while a "battery of tests" are run to rule out possible causes of Saturday's ailments, which were initially believed to be caused by dehydration.

Link from True Hoop

by Paxson Jackson on Apr 3, 2007 5:01 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Ohh Snap!
Where have I heard that before?... wow
Get with it!

by Goostafer on Apr 3, 2007 5:21 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm guessing
Panic attack.  But if it's a heart thing, the NBA might just start testing for it.
Watch your head, Tyrus!

by cubbybear on Apr 3, 2007 6:57 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

You saved my fantasy team by your post.
I had Aldridge on my fantasy team and did not know about his heart.  I checked the Portland Newspaper which at the time did not have the story.  He is now off my team.  Thank you!
chgobr

by chgobr on Apr 4, 2007 3:59 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

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