Bulls fall behind, stay behind, lose
Fits better than the alternative 'furious rally' recap theme, I think.
When 4 of your starters are terrible, and the 5th doesn't get going until down double-digits in the final quarter (that's right, a Kirk Hinrich sighting), you're going to lose.
Ben Wallace played the entire game and had 8 rebounds and no blocks. Maybe this was Skiles' nod to the media after the 'when I play more I play better' line from Wallace before the game. I can't see a legitimate reason to keep him out there all 48. It's not a good short-term strategy (he's bad, especially in this game) or a good long-term strategy (he's old).
If Skiles was swayed by Wallace's words, there must have been an underground paper that had the corresponding Tyrus Thomas story: "I play better when I sit on the bench" (ghostwritten by Sam Smith). Tyrus played the first 7:24 and didn't come back. I'm sure it will be blamed on 'matchups', and his replacements (Nocioni and Noah) had good games, but come on. He didn't light up those 7 minutes but it wasn't like he was making the dumb plays that usually get the knee-jerk Skiles benching. It's true that he likely had no natural opponent between Dirk and Howard, but it wasn't like they were each in there for the entire game. I'm clinging to the hope of one-game aberration, as with those 4 minutes of A-Drain time.
Superduperstars of the future Gordon and Deng were 8-29 from the field and supplemented that with a total of 3 free-throw attempts (all by Deng). That's a quick strategy for a Bulls loss. Usually the famous Bulls slow starts coincide with Ben Gordon slow starts, but he needs to get going and be a scorer every night. I'm always one to brush off his deficiencies, because he is talent on offense and the Bulls certainly need that. And I'm even ok with the cold shooting nights, it happens. But if it's not falling he needs to get to the line, instead we saw far too many floaters today. Moving on to Luol, while it's not entirely fair to project him based on 'contemporaries' that are all older than him, it'd be nice if he wasn't outplayed by every Tayshaun Prince, Richard Jefferson, Josh Howard, etc. every time they matched up. Howard just looked like he was in a different class (and you can put your labels on those classes if you must) of player tonight. Deng was certainly playing closer to the basket tonight, and all season, which is something I wanted to see. But that also means the growing pains (implying growth at all, which could be optimistic) of lots of botched inside attempts and being physically overwhelmed.
If it wasn't for a Herculean effort by Nocioni (3-4 from three, 15-16 from the line), the game would've been out of reach by halftime. But it was a wasted effort considering he was tasked with picking up for nearly every member of the starting lineup. Chris Duhon also played well enough to earn a start in the 2nd half over Hinrich (Noah started for Tyrus), but those are the kinds of bench efforts that should supplement the starters towards a win, not have them clinging to a double-digit deficit all game.
No real shame in losing to the Mavericks by five, but this team got some lucky performances to be that close, and the players that will make or break the season weren't up to par, yet again.
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135 comments
Comments
Sure it's fair to compare Deng to those players
by Big D on
Dec 3, 2007 11:40 PM CST
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I say that every night before bed...
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
Dec 3, 2007 11:45 PM CST
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huh?
by Fred Manrique on
Dec 4, 2007 10:07 AM CST
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cop-out
If "age matters" so much, why is Kirk apparently getting worse when he should be peaking?
by Fred Manrique on
Dec 4, 2007 10:48 AM CST
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I like this quote from
I realize he means that the dreadful first half snuffed momentum, but grammatically speaking it reads as Skiles benching of Kirk/Ty snuffed momentum - and given that many here think Skiles' handling of playing time for Ty is a problem, maybe both the literal and intended meanings are true.
by wjb1492 on
Dec 3, 2007 11:42 PM CST
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I also think the headline is misleading
by Jaina on
Dec 3, 2007 11:53 PM CST
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Agreed,
I noticed that Mariotti's Cuban ass-kissing blog points at Kirk, Lu and BG as a problem tonight - but he lists the shooting percentages for each of them and only gives point totals for BG and Lu, leaving out the little detail that Kirk was 7-7 from the line. I just kind of figure that he's doing plenty not well right now, at least he deserves the acknowledgment of when he doesn't suck at something. :)
by wjb1492 on
Dec 4, 2007 12:14 AM CST
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Kirk is
by sue369 on
Dec 4, 2007 7:16 AM CST
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I was going to stay up to watch the replay
Anyway, i remember Kirk saying something when he was out with an injury for a couple of games about being able to see aspects of the game while he was forced to watch that he had been missing while playing - I was wondering if that happened a bit last night.
by wjb1492 on
Dec 4, 2007 10:39 AM CST
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Meaning?
And his defense has been bad.
by nateroth on
Dec 4, 2007 11:13 AM CST
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Hey I'm
by sue369 on
Dec 4, 2007 1:20 PM CST
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disagree
by ScottieCartwright on
Dec 5, 2007 2:38 PM CST
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But people
by sue369 on
Dec 5, 2007 3:58 PM CST
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I am so sick
by RogersPark Kris on
Dec 4, 2007 12:21 AM CST
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Side note...
by RogersPark Kris on
Dec 4, 2007 12:27 AM CST
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Why can't Wallace get one stupid block!
...yeah....THAT worked...
by Bluelou on
Dec 4, 2007 9:52 AM CST
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its not just the blocks or rebounds.
by chicago-homesick-blues on
Dec 4, 2007 10:14 AM CST
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Terrible
by NBA Observer on
Dec 4, 2007 12:55 PM CST
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VAMOS NOCIONI!!!
http://mundoalbiceleste.blogspot.com/2007/12/nba-news-another-big-night-for-delfino.html
Comments are appreciated
by sivanjohn on
Dec 4, 2007 12:35 AM CST
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Here is a comment :
C'est plutôt amusant !
by Diabolo on
Dec 4, 2007 2:53 AM CST
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Here Is My Reply
Didn't know I was good french all this while
by sivanjohn on
Dec 4, 2007 4:33 AM CST
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Threw Away the Game
But if we can play the next few matches like how we ended this one, there's hope yet
by blackmage71 on
Dec 4, 2007 2:51 AM CST
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I for one am
I don't get this team at all.
by sue369 on
Dec 4, 2007 7:26 AM CST
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the problem was never with NOCE
by Blacknight23 on
Dec 4, 2007 7:40 AM CST
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The way
by sue369 on
Dec 4, 2007 8:08 AM CST
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Huh? No he hasn't.
by tyger1147 on
Dec 4, 2007 9:44 AM CST
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I'll worry
by sue369 on
Dec 4, 2007 10:12 AM CST
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That's fine.
I don't think many, if any, would have a problem with Noc's contract if it were 2 years shorter.
by tyger1147 on
Dec 4, 2007 12:07 PM CST
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I think you
by sue369 on
Dec 4, 2007 2:03 PM CST
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Hanley whispers lineup changes
Uh, why? Freaking Skiles, stop coaching so much.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
Dec 4, 2007 9:15 AM CST
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...attempting to interpret Skiles' actions
by alec on
Dec 4, 2007 9:23 AM CST
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It's pretty clear
by bullshooter on
Dec 4, 2007 9:29 AM CST
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I guess it's easier
by alec on
Dec 4, 2007 10:10 AM CST
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It's not personal
by bullshooter on
Dec 4, 2007 10:26 AM CST
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Smith tweakedhis knee
by hscs on
Dec 4, 2007 10:27 AM CST
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SKILES ego is the problem
by fireskiles on
Dec 4, 2007 7:28 PM CST
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I seem to recall that before the season started
by alec on
Dec 4, 2007 9:33 AM CST
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82games hasn't posted any
by Scotter on
Dec 4, 2007 5:55 PM CST
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notes
Also worth nothing, he mentions the Gasol thing.
Like the Knicks last year, I root for the Lakers and Grizzlies to lose every time just to the chances of us getting their superstars comes easier.
The way Noc has been playing, he's a huge chip.
by Option27 on
Dec 4, 2007 10:19 AM CST
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Duhon purity index
He did get this right though:
Plus you can add the times that Wallace recieved the ball in position for a layup and instead just danced around and passed it back out.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
Dec 4, 2007 10:23 AM CST
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Wallace Offense hurts
I know other teams have C or PF who aren't big on the offense end but it seems to me that Wallace is more of a problem for the Bulls because he ends up with the ball in their offense much more. Maybe also because they don't have dominate scorers and are shooting such low% that Wallace's misses hurt more. It just seems a problem when Bulls players shoot such a low % at the rim (not just Wallace). Puts too much pressure on guards when they miss so many layups, short shots. And Wallace not being threat allows Defense to hedge over to Hinrich, Gordon, Deng, Noc on every drive, pick, etc
I guess this leads to question did other teams adjust defense this year vs Bulls? Or are Bulls offensive playes just playing / shooting worse? I bet its some of both
by NY Chicago Fan on
Dec 4, 2007 11:38 AM CST
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I don't think his Kukoc comments
by alec on
Dec 4, 2007 10:25 AM CST
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it must have been
by hscs on
Dec 4, 2007 11:12 AM CST
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When he first came to the U.S.
by alec on
Dec 4, 2007 11:34 AM CST
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really???
by hscs on
Dec 4, 2007 11:37 AM CST
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I can't tell if you're kidding.
by alec on
Dec 4, 2007 11:45 AM CST
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no way!!!
by hscs on
Dec 4, 2007 11:48 AM CST
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You're an ass
by NittanyBull on
Dec 4, 2007 7:05 PM CST
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can't argue that
by hscs on
Dec 4, 2007 7:33 PM CST
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Waiter
Big Toni fan, very nice offensive player to have coming off that team's bench. Loved the fact that he could hit the three at his height and pass the ball
by NY Chicago Fan on
Dec 4, 2007 11:40 AM CST
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I liked the name ok, it's just that
by bullhockey on
Dec 4, 2007 1:38 PM CST
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Lotta self-control there
Toni came to the team in a support role, only to get thrown into the fire right next to pippen when MJ left before he played one game.
So for his first two years in the NBA, Kukoc was very solid as a STARTER, and rightly so.
Coulda started anywhere in the league.
But then when MJ came back, he had to once again take a seat and come off the bench.
But he made the best of it - even winning the 6th man award.
Alot of guys nowdays would just be pissed, sulk alot, bitch to the media and demand to be traded.
And anyone who has any clue at all about ethics, TEAM concept and just plain common sense and courtesy would know that what Toni was forced to do DOES in fact take a good deal of self control.
by Bluelou on
Dec 4, 2007 4:50 PM CST
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heh
I don't really care how Toni felt about a reduced role, and his production actually improved after Jordan came back. It's laughable to canonize the guy for sacrifices he probably didn't make, and really didn't have a choice about.
by hscs on
Dec 4, 2007 5:01 PM CST
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kukoc didn't start his first year
by bullshooter on
Dec 4, 2007 8:34 PM CST
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Not sure if
by sue369 on
Dec 4, 2007 10:19 AM CST
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that second link didn't work for me
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
Dec 4, 2007 10:27 AM CST
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Hmmm, the link
by sue369 on
Dec 4, 2007 10:50 AM CST
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Me too
by preverbal on
Dec 4, 2007 12:43 PM CST
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My husband
by sue369 on
Dec 4, 2007 1:25 PM CST
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nicht so Schlechtes
by alec on
Dec 4, 2007 10:29 AM CST
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these get less funny every time.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
Dec 4, 2007 11:03 AM CST
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Matt, maybe if you got out of your room
by alec on
Dec 4, 2007 11:17 AM CST
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Elkhorn
by KT on
Dec 4, 2007 12:57 PM CST
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saw it yesterday
by hscs on
Dec 4, 2007 1:05 PM CST
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There's the town of Green Lake
So yeah, we repeat names.
by KT on
Dec 4, 2007 1:46 PM CST
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Really? The 'Kirk bought a house' excuse?
by bullhockey on
Dec 4, 2007 1:52 PM CST
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It's the 2 spot that is killing the bulls
by bullshooter on
Dec 4, 2007 10:33 AM CST
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It looked to me
by alec on
Dec 4, 2007 10:50 AM CST
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No
by bullshooter on
Dec 4, 2007 10:56 AM CST
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no
The analysis you were asking for is here, and it's about Duhon not being the ideal starting guard, and how Skiles frequently misuses him with Hinrich.
by hscs on
Dec 4, 2007 11:04 AM CST
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Right. Thanks.
by alec on
Dec 4, 2007 11:12 AM CST
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no
by hscs on
Dec 4, 2007 11:17 AM CST
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So I take it you don't think starting
by alec on
Dec 4, 2007 11:19 AM CST
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agree
People are made he is not getting assists but hard to do when Bulls are missing jump shots, not getting easy transition buckts and don't have post game
by NY Chicago Fan on
Dec 4, 2007 11:42 AM CST
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More than that
Chicago must play shut down defense to win games. Dallas shot 48+% from the field last night. Chicago couldn't defend the pick and roll, AGAIN. When the pick and roll defense breaks down the Bulls have to shoot lights out in order to win.
Look at Nocioni. He went to the line 16 times! Take it to the rim fellas. Penetrate. Drive! Slash! Dunk the f'n basketball. Those rumors of a lifeless team are accurate. These close losses have Chicago looking like a deflating basketball.
by NBA Observer on
Dec 4, 2007 1:02 PM CST
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Will Skiles make a change
by alec on
Dec 4, 2007 12:03 PM CST
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are you just asking rhetorically?
This was mentioned already.
(Or should I have said "el mentiondo". I'm still locked in my room so I can't find out if that's commonly used.)
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
Dec 4, 2007 12:18 PM CST
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are you asking me rhetorically??
Perhaps I should have asked, "Seeing that more line-up changes are apparently in the offing, and given the prevailing opinion against starting Duhon as one of those moves, what might Skiles be likely to do tomorrow?"
by alec on
Dec 4, 2007 12:55 PM CST
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huh?
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
Dec 4, 2007 1:20 PM CST
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Quick! Close down the site!
by alec on
Dec 4, 2007 1:29 PM CST
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perhaps you should've asked
Having a thought on what Skiles could do is different than a guess as to whether he'll do it. I don't see the point in the latter, especially since Skiles has proven to have little rhyme or reason. Unless you count energy as a reason.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
Dec 4, 2007 1:42 PM CST
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how many points...
by leeac on
Dec 4, 2007 1:01 PM CST
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Kirk
Offensive sets... what offensive sets?, the Bulls always looks as if they are playing one-on-one basketball with very little ball movement. The Ball goes into to Noc, then a shot goes up or a one-on-one move and then a shot. The Balls goes to Gordon, shot-up. The ball goes in to Deng, dribble 1 or 2, then shot. Kirk brings the ball down court, dribbles 17 times, does a cross-over move then a shot.
Skiles offensive sets are over rated. Its just looks like one pass to a player then a shot or a one-on-one move and then a shot to me?
What is a fast break? Four or five pass offensive sets? Skiles. Pressure full court defense was good last night, use it more and let those players earn their pay. You'll even need to bring Thabo on the court because Kirk and Ben will finally get winded, and you'll then have to give them a break for something other than stupid fouls.
by exult463 on
Dec 4, 2007 12:20 PM CST
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One bright spot
Next possession? They run a weave and miss a jump shot.
Coaches have to exploit the other team's subs. Nate Robinson in the game? Put Deng at SG. Post his ass up.
by NBA Observer on
Dec 4, 2007 1:14 PM CST
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You're missing the point
As for the excessive dribbling, it's fine as long as Hinrich doesn't pick up his dribble. Everybody should know that Hinrich is trying to find the open guy when he dribbles around.
by bullshooter on
Dec 4, 2007 1:52 PM CST
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the Hinrich dribbles to much complaint
by hscs on
Dec 4, 2007 1:58 PM CST
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trying to find the open guy?
by exult463 on
Dec 4, 2007 2:31 PM CST
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Watch film of Iverson
With the defender on his hip, he'll either make a slash at the rim or he will take a quick step left towards the baseline to elevate for the jumpshot. But even here, he is trying to draw contact. He tends to wait for the defender to also take the step towards him and then elevate.
AI has become a potential HoFer by getting to the FT line.
by NBA Observer on
Dec 4, 2007 2:53 PM CST
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hmm
by NY Chicago Fan on
Dec 4, 2007 4:15 PM CST
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Just saying
by NBA Observer on
Dec 4, 2007 4:36 PM CST
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Interesting game last night
i was at the game and the crowd could not get into the game, it is so hard when the bulls go down 10 right from the get go. the bulls could have easily lost that game by 20, so the fact that they lost close is a good sign of progress.
by Conor on
Dec 4, 2007 1:04 PM CST
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Fourth Quarter mistakes
Everyone knows that in close games Dallas relies on the pick and roll to protect leads. Once again, Chicago defended this poorly and Dallas made most of their open shots.
2) Boxing out
Brandon Bass is hard to miss. If you don't put a body on a player that is only in there to rebound the basketball you will suffer the fate.
3) Fire
Where's the fire? Is anyone on the Chicago roster ready to LEAD this team? Is anyone going to get after another player? I hate to say it, but the leader of this team speaks English as a second language. Bulls need some swagger.
4) Ben Gordon
We know Ben is not going to shoot 55% every night. We know he's not going 5-7 from 3 point territory. But ZERO free throw attempts from your shooting guard is awful. Ben never needed Pilates. He needs Aikido. He wants balance and quickness. Learning how to fall helps you get to the line. Just ask Devin Harris.
by NBA Observer on
Dec 4, 2007 1:11 PM CST
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BG has had a few, very few,
by alec on
Dec 4, 2007 1:28 PM CST
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If Skiles wants to give noce more
so:
Duhon
Dang
Nocioni
Thomas
Wallace
as the starting five, and see where that takes u...if hinrich plays off the bench like he did in the third and fourth when he came in off the bench :) and gordon does his off da bench miracles like he did the first couple of years they might get a nice spark and string some wins together!
by Gogiman on
Dec 4, 2007 1:33 PM CST
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I'd like to see your line up.
by alec on
Dec 4, 2007 1:41 PM CST
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Matt, I have a great idea.
by alec on
Dec 4, 2007 1:50 PM CST
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You know what would be better?
by bullshooter on
Dec 4, 2007 1:54 PM CST
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good idea
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
Dec 4, 2007 2:09 PM CST
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Maybe Thabo can come over with some silly string.
by bullhockey on
Dec 4, 2007 3:32 PM CST
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I suddenly have a strong urge to start posting
by wjb1492 on
Dec 4, 2007 7:08 PM CST
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Guarding the 2
The lineup looks better when Dallas goes to the bench to insert Stackhouse.
I do agree, overall, this lineup is the best for facing the Eastern Conference shooting guards.
by NBA Observer on
Dec 4, 2007 2:19 PM CST
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why is that the biggest concern?
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
Dec 4, 2007 2:44 PM CST
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owning the 2 position = monster wins
by NBA Observer on
Dec 4, 2007 2:55 PM CST
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I misunderstood your first comment
But I still don't think it's that big of a deal. I'd rather see Gordon score and not worry about how to shut down guys who are rarely shut down anyway.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
Dec 4, 2007 2:59 PM CST
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Last night
Dallas subs Stackhouse for Harris.
If anything, you muck up the opponents rotation. This is how Golden State beat the Mavs. Once they disrupted the rotation[yes, hot shooting really helped] they made Avery Johnson overthink and lose the series.
Skiles wants to jockey the 3 and 4 position, but the best place to shift the rotation in the Eastern Conference is at the 2 position.
by NBA Observer on
Dec 4, 2007 3:11 PM CST
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Doesn't Terry come off of the bench?
by bullshooter on
Dec 4, 2007 3:12 PM CST
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I think the Mavs are healthy
by NBA Observer on
Dec 4, 2007 3:18 PM CST
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since when do the Bulls
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
Dec 4, 2007 3:23 PM CST
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Sounds like Tyrus may get benched for Joe Smith
by Big D on
Dec 4, 2007 2:52 PM CST
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"busted coverages"
Not that I don't want Tyrus to get his head out of his ass, but just let him play through it and coach him for once, instead of just yanking him.
Bulls need to fire Skiles before Smith's and Noc's legs fall off.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
Dec 4, 2007 3:02 PM CST
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and before
by hscs on
Dec 4, 2007 3:05 PM CST
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Big Ben / Thomas
Bulls need someone to attack the rim, at least Thomas did that few times in 1st half. Seems they need to encourage him to attack not confuse him since he never knows when he will play or not
Also think someone needs to hit Thabo in the head and tell him, hey you are a tall, althletic guard, use that on offense, nobody said to be so scared and only shoot jumpers, why don't you try dunking on someone?
by NY Chicago Fan on
Dec 4, 2007 4:21 PM CST
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I need more skiles-hate
We need to fire Skiles or trade Thomas. I don't want to trade Thomas unless it's for somebody good, and this can't help the ol' trade value.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
Dec 4, 2007 3:06 PM CST
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It's Tyson Chandler part 2
by Big D on
Dec 4, 2007 3:16 PM CST
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Tyrus is very dumb
by Big D on
Dec 4, 2007 3:14 PM CST
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Nocioni did one too
But I'm sure that was an 'agressive' error. gag.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
Dec 4, 2007 3:16 PM CST
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No one blows more coverages than Noce
by Big D on
Dec 4, 2007 3:29 PM CST
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I really don't know
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
Dec 4, 2007 3:34 PM CST
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There's a difference
by bullshooter on
Dec 4, 2007 3:34 PM CST
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proof is in the lineup
I don't care about Skiles' media mindgames, I just care about the minutes. I'd bet the players feel the same way.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
Dec 4, 2007 3:53 PM CST
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Which pass?
by NBA Observer on
Dec 4, 2007 3:52 PM CST
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I don't think that was the play
by bullshooter on
Dec 4, 2007 4:07 PM CST
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Fire Skiles plzzzzzzzz
by tyrus4prez on
Dec 4, 2007 4:03 PM CST
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