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Around SBN: The Amateur Mathematics Of Linsanity

Because the Bulls need more underachievers

[I had this topic in mind today before Boylan's media tour made me hate this team. Quickly: benching Gordon sucks, it won't work and even if it 'works' it'll just keep him on the bench, which doesn't work. I won't try and speculate rotations based on whatever spin Boylan used in his interviews, but I will have my minutes minions watching closely.]

Saw this in-person recap of Wednesday's Grizzlies-Hornets game and needless to say this part was interesting:

Tonight might have been a turning point on the relationship between Pau and the fans. He was booed many times tonight. It actually seemed to be building throughout the game. It may have started with the Hornets getting some easy dunks and timely offensive rebounds. But it clearly culminated with Pau being passive and hesitant on offense. In typical Pau fashion, he submitted to the jab-step-fest when catching the ball, refusing to assert himself against a physical Tyson Chandler. He was weak the few times he tried to drive. He couldn't hit his jumper and he threw some bad passes out of a double team. In the 2nd half, boos started to trickle in after another jab-step-fest at the elbow resulted in zero Griz points. Later I turned and said I think this place is going to explode on Pau if he does something blatantly bad again (sorta like the free throw incident from last year). Then on the very next possession, Pau was in the short corner, gave the jab-step-fest and turned the ball over. The boos rained down from the rafters. And deservedly so, IMO. I think this game might have been a turning point. The fans are frustrated and they are going to take it out on Pau. Watch out.

Underperforming? Getting booed? Unassertive? Bad jumpshooting and passing?

This guy needs to be a Bull.

So I broke open the "Lil' Sam Smith Home Journalism Kit" (with a replica sweater-vest just like the kind my man Sam wears!) that I received this Christmas, and will now use it to start a rumor that gets Pau Gasol in Chicago. (click read more if that tickles your fancy)

Star-divide

First order of business is to quote the above account as evidence of Pau's falling out in Memphis, yet only credit it to a 'Grizzlies observer'.

Next is to speculate on Memphis' money problems: There's been rumblings in the past over Grizzlies owner Michael Heisley wanting to cut losses, with a team that's still high in payroll but in a small market and waning attendance. They've been rumored to be interested in dealing Mike Miller's large contract to Miami so salary paring may be their strategy as the trade deadline approaches.

Now, suggest a random trade scenario: Would the Grizzlies be interested in taking Andres Nocioni, a free agent they pursued this past summer? Throw in a young big like Joakim Noah or Tyrus Thomas, and maybe offer to take a bad contract off their hands like Damon Stoudamire, who has in the past complimented the Bulls style of play.

(I didn't make up that last sentence by the way, remember when he remarked on the Bulls spacing a couple years ago? Just me? I'm sure Skiles remembered, anyway.)

Final step is to just wait until I'm picked up on Hoopshype and then watch as the speculation morphs into rumor through blog telephone. I'll know my mission is complete when Pax weepily shoots down the rumor while complaining about disinformation in the media being unfair to his players.

That sure was fun. But joking about the Smith-icity of this post aside (and now that I looked it up, I more-or-less did the same thing last season), I am genuinely interested in the Bulls acquiring Pau for a low value if he is truly on his way out of Memphis. Now even a low value in terms of trade package it is still a risk for the Bulls, as Gasol's salary tops out at nearly $18m in 2010/2011. However he's 27 now and 31 when that contract's up, so you're paying for his prime years, and even though he's earning a max contract it's not the grandfathered-in $20+m deals like those owed to Bryant, Kidd, or Jermaine O'Neal. Plus the on-court help he brings of low-post scoring, commanding double-teams, being tall, and all the wonderful results that entails.

Chad Ford mentioned in his chat Thursday that he thinks it can be done without including Deng or Gordon (impending free agency may scare the Grizzlies off anyway), and that the Grizzlies need 'toughness and a winner', naming Nocioni (ha!) as exactly that. Ford's idea was similar to mine, with Noc+Noah/Tyrus(they could use defense too) and a first rounder. Works for me.

At least I think it works for me, and perhaps it's my now rampant Tyrus fanboyism keeps me from wanting to include him. A deal like this seems favorable, throw the Griz a first round pick and they can flip Joe Smith to a contender for another expiring deal (or whatever). There are other permutations to go with, for instance using Sefolosha+Griffin instead of Smith, or if the Bulls took a spoonful of sugar before swallowing the contract of Brian Cardinal (he made overpaying role players cool before Nocioni) instead of Stoudamire, it may take even less in terms of 'talent' to get Pau.

The Bulls can then make a run with a lineup of Hinrich/Gordon/Deng/Gasol/Wallace, with the primary reserves being Thomas/Sefolosha/Gray and filler from Memphis (you'd have to assume they'd package Juan Carlos Navarro with his countryman in any deal). If they then make the finals (remember: winner = pay the tax. I hope) they can retain everyone. But if they don't, one of Deng or Gordon will likely have to be dealt if each are still commanding 8 figure deals, but it's not like they woudln't get a pretty nice haul from each to help reload. Now the franchise has a 2 year window and after that use Wallace's decaying corpse to perhaps make a run at another big-salaried super-talent. Lather, rinse, repeat.

John Hollinger also commented on Gasol today (seems everyone had the fever), still banging the 'Pax missed out last year' drum, as has been his way. But for all we know at that time it meant Deng+Gordon+Sefolosha+Brown and who knows what else.  Doing so now, if Gasol is really getting run out of town and the Grizzlies go into full rebuilding mode, should cost far less. And although this slow start for Gasol is worrisome, and he hasn't exactly shed labels already prevalent on this roster (not a 'go-to' star, soft, etc.), for better or for worse I think he'd fit right in.

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Gasol for noch
Seems okay, but instead of thomas or noah and a 1st round pick, couldnt it be gray and smith and a first round pick? Thomas CAN be a beast one day, and Noah could still be the perfect big ben replacement. I dont think theres anything in this draft worth going after anyway. Gray's 'post presense' is probably still worthless when compared to Gasol on a bad day.
im trying hard to become the next kirk hinrich, therefore im doing nothing more than being the next chris duhon.

by piccolomair on Dec 27, 2007 11:29 PM CST reply actions  

No way the Grizz...
...would move Gasol for Noce/Gray/Smith and a pick.  I think Noce/Tyrus or Noah and a pick would be wishcasting, although it's at least fathomable.

by Jivas on Dec 27, 2007 11:37 PM CST up reply actions  

Just swap
Swap Hakim Warrick with Tyrus Thomas.

by NBA Observer on Dec 28, 2007 9:39 AM CST up reply actions  

Agreed - buying low on Pau would be great...
...if possible.

Last week I worked something similar in the Trade Machine - I think it was Gordon/Nocioni/Thomas/filler for Gasol/Kyle Lowry/Hakim Warrick/Cardinal's awful contract, or something along those lines.  There's definitely some combination in there that would be a benefit to both teams.

by Jivas on Dec 27, 2007 11:34 PM CST reply actions  

The thing is . .
If Gasol is available for a lower price than usual, the Bulls won't be the only ones going for him.

I'm sure a lot of teams would be in the hunt for him. He would help a lot of teams, not just the Bulls.

So in a dream world, I would love to get Gasol without parting with Gordon or Deng but I think they would have to get into a bidding war with other teams and eventually include one of them

by Option27 on Dec 28, 2007 12:00 AM CST reply actions  

then it should be Gordon
Gordon/Nocioni and a draft pick.
"RUN,TYRUS,RUN!!!"-Formerly Chicago Bulls coach S.Skiles

by Azabullsfan on Dec 28, 2007 12:08 AM CST up reply actions  

I mean Gordon AND Noce
"RUN,TYRUS,RUN!!!"-Formerly Chicago Bulls coach S.Skiles

by Azabullsfan on Dec 28, 2007 12:10 AM CST up reply actions  

definately Gordon over Deng
Like a Gordon Joe Smith and a first rounder(maybe not) for Gasol and Navarro .

by eross226 on Dec 28, 2007 12:19 AM CST reply actions  

If we trade Tyrus for Gasol...
I'll punch Paxson square in the crotch.
"We goin' to the 'ship!" - LSU IS IN THE NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP!

by 1958ChiTown on Dec 28, 2007 1:31 AM CST reply actions  

I'd help
"Fans never fall asleep at our games, because they're afraid they might get hit by a pass." -George Raveling

by cubbybear on Dec 28, 2007 1:37 AM CST up reply actions  

Wow.... Why do you two think that?
If healthy, Gasol should be a guaranteed 20ppg and 8 rpg a night player that is going to draw double teams downlow.  This will allow our small guards the ability to get open looks on kickbacks, which should increase their shooting %.  Also, Gasol is 7 fricking feet tall.  Since when was TT projected to do all of that?

by Mattchoo on Dec 28, 2007 8:59 AM CST up reply actions  

oooh, but having said that
I would PREFERABLY trade Noah.  I don't know why so many people on blogabull have this love affair with Noah.  he was the one player i hoped the Bulls organization wasn't stupid enough to take on draft day.  I'll give him credit that he does have hustle, energy, and finds his way to where the ball is going to be at this stage in his early career, BUT when i look at his play it is just so damn ugly looking.  His shooting and dribbling look worse than Wallace's!  I would love to be able to retain Thomas and instead throw in Noah in the deal to Memphis.

by Mattchoo on Dec 28, 2007 9:07 AM CST up reply actions  

During the draft
Memphis was really interested in Noah, but this could have been draft smoke screens.

by Jesse07 on Dec 28, 2007 9:24 AM CST up reply actions  

that could be good news
for us in a deal.  Plus, Noah is 7 feet tall and may be a good fit in Memphis style of offense

by Mattchoo on Dec 28, 2007 9:38 AM CST up reply actions  

dribbling
what? his dribbling is much better than wallace's. In fact its better than Thomas' dribbling.  Once he gets more comfortable, he can play the high post and take slow bigs of the dribble. The guy is a playmaker and a good defender.  

that said, i would definitely give him up instead of Thomas in a trade for Gasol.  Plus Gasol needs a new Stromile Swift in his life.

by Sambossanova on Dec 28, 2007 11:26 AM CST up reply actions  

Trades...
This was my trade I proposed:
Wallace / Gordon / Noah for Gasol / Navarro / Cardinal.  

It may be VERY beneficial for us to try to keep Wallace and have Gasol play along side of him.    However, if we do that it may be hard to take any bad contracts Memphis has that they want to get rid of.  Also, if we trade Gordon to Memphis, then we need to get back Navarro (similiar player).  Nonetheless, would someone be able to check for me the following trades on the trade machine and let me know if they are allowable:

Noch/Griffin/Noah (we'd include a 2nd rd pick) for Gasol/and maybe Navarro if we give the pick?

Noch/Gordon/Noah for Gasol/Navarro

Noch/Thomas/Noah for Gasol and their 1st rd pick

Smith/Gordon/Thomas for Gasol/Navarro

Noch/Smith/Gordon/Noah for Gasol/Navarro/Cardinal

by Mattchoo on Dec 28, 2007 9:29 AM CST reply actions  

or you could have
BG, Noah, & Noce   for Gasol & Lowery = we would be "short" 640,000 so a filler would be needed.  It still brings me back to if BG leaves who is the SG

by Jesse07 on Dec 28, 2007 10:00 AM CST up reply actions  

Thanks for getting the info for me.
If we trade BG7 to Memphis, we'd need to get Navarro back in the deal.  Then Navarro could be the interim SG until possibly another trade occurs for a bigger SG

by Mattchoo on Dec 28, 2007 10:31 AM CST up reply actions  

My impression is that Memphis is as disinchanted
with Gasol as we are with Big Ben.  From Matt's great summary above it is clear the fan's have turned on him.  He is also playing terribly. We are definitely taking a risk that his game would improve.  My guess is that Memphis perceives that anyone who is willing to pick-up his horrible contract is an idiot.  Gasol's contract: this year - $13,7 mil.  2008-9 $15.1 mil. 2009-10 $16.5 mil.  20010-11 $17.8 mil.  

Wallace for Gasol has been looked at before.   I do not believe we need to give away Deng or Gordon to get Gasol.  I'd start by offering Big Ben for Gasol straight up.  Memphis gets significant salary relief.  However, we need to do due diligence. Be careful what we wish for.  This can be a horrible contract to assume that could jeopardize signing Deng and/or Gordon.  If we can dump Big Ben without giving away Deng or Gordon I would risk it.

by chgobr on Dec 28, 2007 9:42 AM CST reply actions  

the grizz fans
booed Gasol last season too.
Fire Boylan!

by hscs on Dec 28, 2007 9:58 AM CST reply actions  

Putting it all together, I want to see
Bulls trade:
Nocioni, Tyrus Thomas, Thabo, 1st Round pick to Memphis
Grizzlies trade:
Pau Gasol, JC Navarro

Bulls trade:
Chris Duhon, Ben Wallace
Cavs trade:
Larry Hughes, Donyell Marshall

Bulls
1/2- Hinrich, Gordon, Hughes, Navarro
3- Deng , Griffin, Khyrapa, Nichols
4- Noah, Smith, Marshall
5- Gasol, Gray

by Sports2 on Dec 28, 2007 10:09 AM CST reply actions  

LOL
We win!  We keep our core and add a big two guard (who can shoot) and post presence!  

Not saying it wouldn't be nice, but not sure we're going to see those kinds of changes...

by Freethefro on Dec 28, 2007 10:12 AM CST up reply actions  

Heh
I think you're right, that's a lot of change to be making, but it's nice to hope.

The only thing especially rosey about it, though, is getting back JC Navarro.  He looks like more than just a throw in to me.  I'd probably do it all without him.

I think the Cavs would certainly do the Wallace/Duhon for Hughes/Marshall swap.  Without thinking twice.  They love Hughes like we love Wallace.  But in reality, is Wallace a better player at a more scarce position. With Good and Big Z, they'd have ideal guys to play him with as well.

It'd also save them about $6M total in luxury tax and salary payments, by my calculations

by Sports2 on Dec 28, 2007 11:24 AM CST up reply actions  

Some good news
is that the Grizzlies actually could use a shooter, ala Gordon, to pair with their three talented point guards.  Gay is a terrific young small forward - numbers superior to Deng's already - so duplication there might not be such a hot idea.  Gordon gives them an elite shooter - he might have some value for these guys.  Salaries have to work, yes, but I'd think - and hope - that he and Noc would be the centerpieces of any trade.  

They seem the most desireable from the Grizzlies perspective, anyway.  Not so sure where a Gordon-less back court leaves us.  

 

by Freethefro on Dec 28, 2007 10:10 AM CST reply actions  

I still think
if they're not too keen on paying Gasol, they wouldn't want Gordon heading into restricted free agency. Then again it's not like Gordon can command much money anymore.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 28, 2007 10:15 AM CST up reply actions  

and part of that similar argument
is why they may want Noah instead of Thomas, as Thomas is one year closer to restricted free agency himself.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 28, 2007 10:15 AM CST up reply actions  

From their perspective
they would absolutely want Noah over Thomas.  If they lose Gasol, they have no bigs left.

by alec on Dec 28, 2007 10:17 AM CST up reply actions  

Noah over Thomas makes more sense
for several reasons: cheaper for a longer period, they have a surplus of athletic small forwards (Warrick, Gay), a trade of Gasol would leave them less a seven-footer, and they supposedly) liked Noah around draft-time.  Hopefully that adds up to Tyrus Thomas=Chicago Bull.  I'd love to see him getting thirty minutes of burn backing up both forward positions while he develops into a starting role.

In regard to the problem with the backcourt: it may not be as awful as we think.  Adding a true point, ala Navarro, means Hinrich would slide over to the shooting guard.  Juan Carlos can shoot (435 fg, 385 3P) comparably to Gordon this year (390 fg, 336 3P).  And I wonder if Navarro isn't better at traditional point guard duties than Kirk as been this year - by which I mean taking care of the ball, penetrating, distributing.  

In a nutshell: the loss of Gordon doesn't leave us with the gaping hole at the 2 that it might seem.  Gordon's replacement is Kirk.

And an unexpected windfall might be better point guard play.

by Freethefro on Dec 28, 2007 10:27 AM CST up reply actions  

Man
that was some rosy thinking on my part.  Unexpected windfalls!  Trade your best shooter and shoot better!  

I just need to feel some kinda optimism.

by Freethefro on Dec 28, 2007 10:34 AM CST up reply actions  

again, it seems like
'true' point guard means 'really really good' point guard.

Yes, I'd rather have Kidd or Paul or Williams or Nash than Hinrich. Because they're better, not because they're true-er.

in conclusion, Duhon sucks.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 28, 2007 12:35 PM CST up reply actions  

So, according to your "seems like"
definition, Duhon is not a true point guard...even though he's a, well, true point guard.  I think I see.

by alec on Dec 28, 2007 12:56 PM CST up reply actions  

Umm...Mike Miller?
Mike Miller is an elite shooter.  If they acquired Gordon I'd have to think it'd be to swap him in a sign-and-trade this offseason.

by Jivas on Dec 28, 2007 10:29 AM CST up reply actions  

Miller + Gasol = too much$
I dont think we could swallow the 8 mil for Miller & 13 mil for Gasol.  I like Mike Miller, but I don't see Memphis moving him too- even if we could swing it.

by Jesse07 on Dec 28, 2007 10:38 AM CST up reply actions  

Yep
he is.  But Conley/Miller/Gordon is one heck of a guard corps.  They have a surplus of points and only one shooter, who is really more of forward, if you watch him play.  

A deal can be made here. I don't have any faith in Pax, though.  He'd built up a lot of credit with me - on the basis of two drafts - but he's burned through it just as quickly.

by Freethefro on Dec 28, 2007 10:41 AM CST up reply actions  

Agreed
I am high this morning on the Gasol/ Lowery  for Noce/ Noah/ Gordon or it might be the fumes from the trade machine.  

Memphis- liked Noce & Noah last year.  Gordon would complement Miller & Conley.  Also, Gordon's 35 million dollar contract might be affordable to Memphis.

Does anyone absolutely hate this idea?  Matt?  What are the negatives beside a possible whole at the two guard?  Do draft picks get involved anyway or are the possiblility to trade draft picks get involved?  

by Jesse07 on Dec 28, 2007 10:58 AM CST up reply actions  

Too bad Krause doesn't run Memphis
Maybe we could trade them Ben Gordon for Mike Conley.

by NBA Observer on Dec 28, 2007 10:53 AM CST up reply actions  

I wouldn't mind just a straight up
trade of all our personnel for all of theirs.  They have a lot of talent.  What's the problem there?

by alec on Dec 28, 2007 10:15 AM CST reply actions  

I don't think any other team regards Thomas
even remotely as highly as "we" do.  I say "we" in quotes, because I am on the verge of dropping out of Thomas-loving school altogether.  I'm almost to the point where I think he may be the permanent bust of that draft.  He's already sleeping in Stromile's guest room, he just isn't all the way unpacked.  I'm willing to include him in any reasonable deal, and I think Paxson should try to squeeze out anything he can get for the guy while he can.  A year from now he'll just have to hit any bid someone's willing to show him.

by alec on Dec 28, 2007 10:29 AM CST reply actions  

I'm not interested in trading any of the core.
(all said before...)

I know it's ridiculous to plan for the future of signing a free agent, but there's really only one of two ways I want this team to go:

a) Make room to somehow acquire Arenas this off-season while keeping Hinrich, Deng, Thomas and Noah

b) Trade Hinrich to get one or two "bad" contracts worth $8-$10 million that expire in 2009-2010 (plus whatever filler) plus a draft pick or two while keeping Deng, Thomas, Noah and Gray and hope to sign LeBron James. The way it's currently set up, giving James a max contract from his age 26 years on would probably be one of the best investments possible. While it's a huge gamble to pin the hopes on the projection of guys 23 and younger and signing a player 3 years away, I find it hard to believe that the five player "core" (Noah or Gray for 6th man of the year? hehe) doesn't make it to the NBA finals AT LEAST twice, and maybe for many consecutive years.

I'm definitely willing to take two to three steps back to 7 to 8 steps forward---or whatever cliche.

Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Dec 28, 2007 10:33 AM CST reply actions  

Why won't people give up on this idea?
Seriously, how many times do teams have to cut back on payroll in hopes of a future, loaded free agent class only to end up with nothing but a cheap crappy team and second tier free agents before this strategy is universally seen as failure.  Most top level free agents do a sign and trade to get the most cash they can, so it does help to have some contracts around.  Too many teams feel that cap space burning in their pockets and end up wasting it on the likes of Ben Wallace and Rashard Lewis.  The Bulls should be looking for opportunities to improve every chance they get, but basing those plans on a free agent class 3 years from now is just calling for disaster.

by snley on Dec 28, 2007 10:43 AM CST up reply actions  

Need to clarify one point
Most top tier free agents either resign with their team or do a sign and trade.

by snley on Dec 28, 2007 10:44 AM CST up reply actions  

exactly
if you are going to plan that far ahead, a better strategy is to keep Wallace who'll be expiring the season before that big free agent class, and use him as the big fat Ratliff-esque expiring deal.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 28, 2007 10:51 AM CST up reply actions  

Who said to trade Wallace?
And Wallace expires the same time as Wade and James.
Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Dec 28, 2007 11:05 AM CST up reply actions  

I think we're on the same page
But say either of those big fish are guaranteed to opt-out at the end of that year, then a fat expiring deal may be what it takes to 'get something' instead of losing that player.

I think that's a more practical way to get a top-level impending free agent than hording cap space (since unless they want to be really bad, they won't be under the cap) and hoping a player will take less money to sign with them. If they instead trade for a max player, they get to sign him to the highest possible extension.

As far as your first idea, there's no way the Bulls are getting under the cap anytime soon.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 28, 2007 11:22 AM CST up reply actions  

Okay.
I guess I didn't mean to imply "trade Hinrich right now for shit". My main point is to hold on to the Wallace contract-not so much for the cap space (now that I think about it, I've changed my mind-flipflopper!!!)-but for the reduction in salary and avoiding luxury tax.

If they hold onto to Wallace, the only big contracts will be Hinrich, Nocioni, Deng and whatever the situation with Gordon turns out to be. Hinrich + Nocioni could be used in that sign-and-trade leaving the big contracts as James, Deng, Tyrus's extension and then whatever Noah et. al demand.

Also, I understand that those players made their contracts because the CBA expires after the 2010/2011 season, but I think that can only help the Bulls.

Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Dec 28, 2007 11:35 AM CST up reply actions  

Lack of foresight by you.
A) the Bulls wouldn't have any cap space "burning in their pockets" because it wouldn't come available until that summer when those players could opt out.

B1) Most guys sign w/ their teams or do sign-and-trades because other teams never have the money to sign them out right. Until someone contradicts me, I'm going to assume that losing $23.5 million in that year would help

--BUT--

B2) If that doesn't work, they can keep Hinrich and there's always Nocioni to work both into a sign-and-trade (plus cash and draft picks).

C) The "second-tier" free agent could include Dwyane Wade. I'm okay with that.

D) There's absolutely NO DISASTER waiting to happen because all I've said is to hold on to Wallace's contract (it only gets more valuable the closer to its expiration) forgoing the trade for Gasol. I think the risk of a negative (waiting vs. trading) is about equal w/ one having a much higher reward.

What is the potential disaster/failure here?

Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Dec 28, 2007 11:23 AM CST up reply actions  

Huh?
A) If the cap space is there, there's a good chance they'll feel the need to do something with it.  This is when bad decisions are often made.

B) You missed my point, most players you want to give that kind of money to won't do it because they can get even more money by sign and trade or resigning.  You don't want that to work b/c most of the time when it does "work" the money goes to a player who does not deserve it.  Keeping contracts/assets to sign and trade with certainly helps, but when your giving away contracts on a sign and trade you usually don't want the contracts to be for useful players.  

C) In who's world is Dwayne Wade a second-tier free agent?  Unless he's unable to prove to keep himself healthy, he will be as coveted as LeBron.   If he can't stay healthy or his skills/contributions erode due to his playing style, you shouldn't want to pay him as a first tier player.

D) There's nothing wrong with holding onto Wallace's contract, but eschewing an opportunity to improve your team simply for a pipe dream 3 years from now is folly.  Honestly, the only silver lining I saw from the day Paxson signed Wallace was that when his contract came close to expiring, it would eventually be used to acquire someone else.

by snley on Dec 28, 2007 12:27 PM CST up reply actions  

re-read other stuff I've written
C) = sarcasm
Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Dec 28, 2007 1:20 PM CST up reply actions  

I know sarcasm...
and that was a pretty crappy attempt

by snley on Dec 28, 2007 2:51 PM CST up reply actions  

And you're bland.
Not funny, but it worked. You fell for it.
Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Dec 28, 2007 4:08 PM CST up reply actions  

Trying to get back on topic...
The Bulls are not going to become a contender with one move and win everything this year and next.  This mythical move isn't going to be the start of a new dynasty.  A few things need to happen, so why not try and plug one whole this year.

If the Bulls, trade Noce, Noah, & BG for Gasol and Lowery + draft pick (There #1 this year, next or right to swap), they fill a whole.  You extend Deng, then Tyrus in a few years to replace Ben.  Then, they only have 1 major whole to fill at SG.   Is there any player in free agency this year that could step in for the next few years and make this team a real contender?  Also, there is the possibility of drafting a SG but that is more of a longterm project.  Bottom line this team needs to be shaked up and a move has to be done before the draft to try and address a need.  

by Jesse07 on Dec 28, 2007 12:01 PM CST reply actions  

Lets be honest here
Gasol would immediately become the best player on the bulls.  We don't have a guy that can put up 20 8 and 3-4 assists.  Put him next to 3 of 4 "centers" we have:  Smith/Wallace/Tyrus/Noah, and thats a sick front line.  Wallace Tyrus and Noah are all great help defenders, and Noah is a great on ball defender for the big men that Pau can't guard. You guys are crazy for not wanting a PROVEN low post scorer.

by davebino on Dec 28, 2007 12:13 PM CST reply actions  

quite frankly
Gasol is the best big man from Europe. He tears up the international FIBA games. The game before this so called "jab-fest game", he had 31 freaking points  on 13-20 shooting. How easily Memphis fans forgot that.

by Orange Juice on Dec 28, 2007 12:59 PM CST up reply actions  

Without a doubt, Gasol would be the best
player on the Bulls.  If this is really available, I hope Paxson doesn't screw around, thinking that if he waits the deal will improve.  Gasol is the type of player you give up a premium to obtain.

by alec on Dec 28, 2007 1:14 PM CST up reply actions  

and with Duhon starting...
From 2005 - 2007, Gordon has consistently been benched for Duhon.  The past two seasons he's been benched when we struggle early, and then the team (and Ben) comes around.  Eventually Gordon goes back into the starting lineup.  How is this year different from any other year?  I'm used to it by now.

by davebino on Dec 28, 2007 12:17 PM CST reply actions  

I don't know
I can't explain it.  I think BG is a career 6th man due to his poor defense and inability to get to the free throw line.  The only way he starts in the NBA is if the current roster is so weak at the guard position he has to start.

Does anyone seriously think Ben Gordon is worth more money than Manu Ginobili?

by NBA Observer on Dec 28, 2007 12:54 PM CST up reply actions  

If you're wondering where
the Hughes trade talk went, I put it here:

http://www.blogabull.com/story/2007/12/28/125939/94

And if you want to laugh at NBAObserver's Phoenix trade idea, go here:

http://www.blogabull.com/story/2007/12/28/124739/05

[We'll see if this 'works'. Maybe I'm tinkering too much a la Skiles. But they were getting quite a few comments so I thought they deserved their own space.   At least with the Hughes one. The Phoenix one I just didn't like looking at after my brilliant Gasol post :) ]

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 28, 2007 12:20 PM CST reply actions  

It was a truly remarkable thread
of historically great proportions.  I can see where you'd want to pluck off the lint.

by alec on Dec 28, 2007 12:58 PM CST up reply actions  

Just a thought
Maybe he is trying to force a trade with his "bad toe" as an excuse for his lack luster play.  It wouldn't be the first time a player tried it.

by Jesse07 on Dec 28, 2007 12:49 PM CST up reply actions  

Grizz fan reaction:
Did you read some of those comments from the fans.  They really don't like Pau Gasol.  Maybe we really don't have to give up too much to get him.

Matt, you keep saying you don't want to give up the core.  Who do you consider the core?  I think some people's core is different than others.

My core of the team in order of importance is: Deng, Hinrich, Gordon, Thomas, Nocioni (and then possibly Wallace)

by Mattchoo on Dec 28, 2007 12:56 PM CST up reply actions  

I guess it's different each time
but usually I mean Hinrich/Gordon/Deng.

in this case I moved on to whether or not I'd want to include Thomas or Noah.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 28, 2007 12:58 PM CST up reply actions  

H/G/D...
is my "core" along with either Noah or TT.  
In Pax we Trust!

by Jobu on Dec 28, 2007 1:33 PM CST up reply actions  

Was it his toe or his foot
he hurt in the world games?

I'm just wondering if this is a lingering problem

by Option27 on Dec 28, 2007 1:19 PM CST up reply actions  

That was his foot
don't know if the toe injury is on this same foot, but either way I wouldn't classify it as a 'related' injury.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 28, 2007 1:25 PM CST up reply actions  

Maybe he
injured his toe doing all the jab-steps?

by marionette on Dec 29, 2007 11:37 PM CST up reply actions  

Yeah, that's a good article.
I see they mentioned Stromile.  Maybe to speed up the Bulls development (or at least fast forward it) we could trade TT for Stromile.

by alec on Dec 28, 2007 1:47 PM CST up reply actions  

Swift
Yes, another project PF to fight for playing time.  I did notice a lot of Bull's names mentioned in the article.  Good read.

by Jesse07 on Dec 28, 2007 2:30 PM CST up reply actions  

yeah we get it, you think Tyrus sucks
but even with a completely flawed development he's still as good as Swift is now, and one's significantly younger. crimeny.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 28, 2007 3:02 PM CST up reply actions  

keep T2
Swift already has a contract I'd rather not acquire.  Tyrus is also more polished defensively than Swift was in year 2 of his NBA career.

by NBA Observer on Dec 28, 2007 3:08 PM CST up reply actions  

they're also 6.9
and weak by NBA standards.  and uber-athletic with less developed basketball skills.  and sometimes they seem to be head cases.  and their best attributes coming out of college we're blocking shots and rebounding.  and....

by Freethefro on Dec 28, 2007 6:43 PM CST up reply actions  

Does anyone worry about picking up Pau's hefty
contract?  How would this impact signing Deng and Gordon?  I would love to have Pau but worry about a potential 2008-9 diary titled, "Pau's horrible contract is killing us".

by chgobr on Dec 29, 2007 7:26 AM CST reply actions  

BG
needs to put together a solid stretch of games where he scores like the Bulls need him to (like last night) before I will start worrying about the Bulls working out a deal with him.  Pau's contract increases only a little faster than Wallace's declines, so it shouldn't be that much of a problem.
Nocioni-Khryapa in '08

by bullshooter on Dec 29, 2007 10:00 AM CST up reply actions  

Gordon responded well to coming off the bench.
This seemed to help Hinrich.  I thought he really played well.  This is still only one game but I liked some things Boylan did.  They did seem to go to the rim more instead of stopping 15 feet away for the predictable jumper.  Their defensive intensity and rotations were not perfect, but I thought was improved.  

I know the Bucks aren't the Celtics but I thought the Bucks played with the intensity of a desperate team.  Tomorrow's Knick game is critical.  It has been awhile since we won two in a row.  I'm hoping last night was a substantive change and not a mirage.  I am more than willing to postpone Gasol talk for a thread about winning.

by chgobr on Dec 29, 2007 12:02 PM CST up reply actions  

What do you all think of this trade?
Paxson has always talked about acquiring assets and then using them for getting an all-star player. Well, if we don't want to break up the core (Deng, Hinrich, Gordon, then Wallace, Nocioni), why not use the assets we've acquired the last two years; especially since some of them don't get much playing time anyway. Smith/Thomas/Noah/Sefalosha/Khryapa for Gasol/Warrick and 2008 1st round pick. Per a New Jersey column, the Nets inquired about Gasol and were told they want young players and really don't want expiring contracts. The deal above has 3 1st round picks (two lottery) from the last two years. Smith would then be a good spot shooting PF veteran for their young team. I put Khryapa in the deal to match salaries to include Warrick back to us, but VEEKTOR could be swapped out for a player such as Griffin. What we could do to sweeten the deal is give the Grizz our 2009 first round pick. By taking their 2008 pick and then they'd take our 2009 pick, it would help space Grizz salary requirements for all these 1st round picks they'd have on their team. As a side note, I'm having difficulties pasting in working links into a post? I think it may have to do with not having any MS Office product installed on this PC at the moment. Any thoughts or comments on pasting links?

by Mattchoo on Dec 31, 2007 11:25 AM CST reply actions  

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