Christmas present roundup

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 25, 2007 9:27 AM CST in News Comment 102 comments

There isn’t much to say that hasn’t been said the past couple of weeks. I thought it was time, and I think a lot of Bulls fans felt the same way, regardless of their opinion of Skiles as a coach in general. Kelly Dwyer has an (expected) well-done synopsis of Skiles’ career in Chicago.

There’s been plenty of speculation as to why Pax swung the axe, and why now. I’m guessing it’s a simple reason: every Paxson addition the past 2 offseasons has been put into question: Wallace, Thomas, Khryapa, Sefolosha, Noah. So either he’s watching all of those guys getting buried and thinking he’s made a bunch of mistakes, or he’s thinking that they’re not being utilized properly.

In the aftermath, there have been plenty of pundits saying that the Bulls are a team that has to try hard to win, and they’ve stopped trying hard. I think Paxson made the aforementioned additions so that they wouldn’t have to try so hard, and this culture of willing disadvantage had gone on long enough.

Here’s a roundup of some of the speculation regarding the move (and thanks to the commenters who brought most of these to my attention):

Chris Duhon (mp3 link) said that it’d be hard to distinguish assistant Jim Boylan (now, reportedly the next interim coach) from Skiles.(Duh’s gotta feel pretty bad, his biggest backer gone in a contract year)
Ric Bucher reported on ESPNNews (video) that Reinsdorf initiated the change.
Stephen Bardo was on WSCR (mp3 link) and speculated that Ben Wallaces ‘listless’ play could be due to dissatisfaction with Skiles.
Sam Smith reports that Ben Wallace told Pax that Skiles quit on the team, so they quit on him.
Marc Stein says that not only was Wallace and Thomas at odds with Skiles, but there were also rumblings from Sefolosha and Nocioni.

We’ll likely see Pete Myers as the ‘interim-interim’ on Wednesday in San Antonio, and Boylan, Myers, or another assistant take over for the rest of the year. Paxson has indicated that playoffs is still the goal, but I’d have to think another major goal is getting Pax’s additions back on the court. If he’s right, they’ll help lead the team to the playoffs while arming them with more than they had (or were willing to use) than last year.

And even if the team doesn’t turn it around, Pax will get a solid two months of evaluation before the trading deadline. With the coaching variable hopefully stabilized, it’s the players’ turn to feel the heat.

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They aren't mutually exclusive

> every Paxson addition the past 2 offseasons has been put into question: Wallace, Thomas, Khryapa, Sefolosha, Noah. So either he's watching all of those guys getting buried and thinking he's made a bunch of mistakes, or he's thinking that they're not being utilized properly.

It's possible they're not being best utilized but also not that good.

Let's not forget Re-signed Nocioni, Smith, and non-extended Deng and Gordon are also Pax additions from the past season.

by Sports2 on Dec 25, 2007 9:42 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

In his new conference,

Paxson went out of his way to observe how much he and Skiles consulted on personnel matters...clearly, if subtly, laying the blame for the team's failure on Skiles' doorstep.

by alec on Dec 25, 2007 10:04 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

that's definitely possible

but you can eliminate one option a lot easier by firing Skiles

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 25, 2007 11:11 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Every Paxson player period has been put

in question this year.

by philosoball on Dec 25, 2007 9:46 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

Nice round-up.

I think that, of this whole mess, Sam Smith had the most interesting, nuanced report. He made the case that Skiles actually quit on the players before they quit on him.

I don't know how many of you stuck around for Skiles' post game remarks after the Houston loss, but Sam Smith could be heard asking question after question. He was clearly driving at something. My thought listening to it was that Sam was taking a much bolder tack than a reporter usually would after such a disturbing team performance.

I was surprised that Skiles stuck around and absorbed the obviously more pointed than usual grilling from Sam.

Sam's article the next day observed that Skiles' tenure was surely near an end.

Sam still has his moments as an incisive observer of the pro basketball scene, and this was one of them.

by alec on Dec 25, 2007 9:57 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

Sam tends to be ludicrous at times

but I think he truly loves and is knowledgeable about basketball. I also saw the post game press conference and Sam's questions about slow rotations, poor help defense, etc. were right on. Skiles calmly agreed with him. I think Skiles knew he was finished at that point.

by chgobr on Dec 25, 2007 11:29 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

If Boylan or Myers

are coaching the rest of the year, I really don't wanna hear "Playoffs are the goal".

What I wanna hear is that their finally going to get their youngsters some playing time and develop them. Hopefully that will get them in the playoffs.

by Option27 on Dec 25, 2007 10:24 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

If the goal was the playoffs

then there was no reason to fire skiles now. The bulls are only 2.5 games out of the 8th spot. I think the goal was to showcase young talent and improve their trade value by the deadline, when guys like Gasol or maybe even DWade might be available.

Nocioni-Khryapa in '08

by bullshooter on Dec 25, 2007 10:30 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

well this gives a temporary boost

this team was trending downwards with Skiles, and I don't think they could rely on their past history of getting out of it.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 25, 2007 11:11 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Skiles departure, while it may

temporarily motivate the Bulls players, also would seem to cast doubt on Paxson's philosophy as a General Manager. If Paxson had the goal of building a championship calibre team with "nice" guys who you could take home to your mother but would never be locks for the All-Star game I think it is time to concede that it hasn't worked. This philosophy has not only caused the Bulls to possibly draft less talented players but also I believe led to the trade of Chandler, the Tim Thomas anomaly, the JR Smith giveaway, the hounding of Tyrus Thomas and the failure to pick up free agents like Zach Randolph who could have been acquired for a song.

I'm also getting the feeling this year that the "nice guy" team we have assembled not only lacks testicular fortitude but also the chemistry that can occur when different personality types are allowed to coalesce. All this emphasis on "character issues" ie-no headbands, no talking to the media (if you're a rookie), no fun, has left the team emotionally dead.

I am not advocating turning the Bulls into the JailBlazers, but on the other hand, we might need to start thinking about talent more than character around these parts since, hey, even Scottie Pippen was carrying around an Uzi at one point.

by philosoball on Dec 25, 2007 11:20 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

slow down on the root beer, pal

I know today's a holiday, but it's not even noon yet!

Officially a hater on Ballhype!

by hscs on Dec 25, 2007 11:32 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Zach Randolph's song is pretty expensive

$13.3 this year, $14.6, $16, and $17.3 through 2011. That should undermine our ability to sign anyone.

by chgobr on Dec 25, 2007 11:42 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Who would you rather have Noc and Joe

Smith or Randolph?

by philosoball on Dec 25, 2007 11:51 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

over for Christmas dinner?

I like leftovers way too much.

Officially a hater on Ballhype!

by hscs on Dec 25, 2007 11:55 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

The problem isn't the talent

the talent is there. In the short run I'd expect to see a lot more of Tyrus, Thabo, and Noah. I'd also expect to see a lot more uneven play.

Nocioni-Khryapa in '08

by bullshooter on Dec 25, 2007 11:43 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

with even rotations comes even play.

hopefully. at least we'll get to see if the players who were drafted to improve the team can improve the team. the junk for prospects deals weren't going to pan out right away, but skiles wasn't moving the process along.

Officially a hater on Ballhype!

by hscs on Dec 25, 2007 11:52 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I'm really gonna miss

Skiles wit.

He always made me laugh.

God, I loved him. How did it get to this?

by Option27 on Dec 25, 2007 11:44 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

the team like

totally tuned him out, man. ;)

Officially a hater on Ballhype!

by hscs on Dec 25, 2007 11:46 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

One Player

and one coach away from being a really good team.
Yet, its dependent on Kirk turning the corner and the Bulls need a true taller backcourt mate who defends well, runs the point some and scores at least 16ppg with 3.5+ apg, and 4+ rpg. And plays consistently. We really do need him to be able to score, something Thabo seems to lack.

Thabo may start to show improvement now that Skiles is gone, but I see Thabo as a SF who can defend SG also. Thabo scoring is a big ?.

The Bulls front court is really ok, and scoring in the post will improve and is improving with Gray, Thomas, Noah and Deng. Now Wallace will now have to improve since Skiles is gone which I believe is possible.

by exult463 on Dec 25, 2007 12:08 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Nice post

I totally agree.

We need someone like a Ron Harper in his prime. A guard that is at the very least a TRUE 6'4" tall person that can score and rebound. Ideally, we'd want between ~6'5" and 6'7", but I'd take a 6'4" SG. This player needs to be able to get to the free throw line too.

by Mattchoo on Dec 25, 2007 12:43 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Corey Maggete?

HOw many years does he have left in his contract. He is scoring a lot this season but mostly because the clippers offense is lacking. I wonder how the Elton Brand/Chris Kaman duo will play like together. If they are taking up a lot of the space inside, Maggete doesnt fit in much, right? A nice outside shooter like Gordon might be of help? Livingston is pretty tall so they wouldnt have a midget line up.

by Sambossanova on Dec 25, 2007 1:22 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

M2GwcDaS

We keep going back to this M2GwcDaS because Paxson has yet to fulfill this position.

For some reason theses 6'6" and 6'7" guys like Maggette, Jason Richardson become tweener SF/SG as they get older? If Maggette would welcome the role as a SG, then as Matt eariler mention that might be a wise rental for the rest of this year.

I agree a player with a decent outside shot is necessary, but also a slasher, finisher at the rim, and ability to to get to free throw line is important also.

Paxson needs a home run, maybe some unknown forgotton guy somewhere like Justin Cage
http://www.blogabull.com/story/2007/9/13/03644/1517

by exult463 on Dec 25, 2007 2:27 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Or Gilbert Arenas

I'm going to be stuck on this until someone tells me for a fact it can't happen.

Arenas makes Hinrich the M2GwcSaD. Hinrich's shown that he can defend the best SG in the league at least sufficiently.

I'm pretty convinced at this point that the 26-year-old Arenas is a big answer to a lot of the Bulls problems. Someone else would have to analyze how he would actually fit in to the other players

Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Dec 25, 2007 4:00 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Kirk defending SG

I personally don't want to see Kirk trying to defend the larger SG. I believe this a large mistake and takes away from Kirk's game and screws his mental and his overall game when he continues to get beat by very talented SG.

The next Bulls SG must take pressure off of Kirk in this area.

Arenas is a very talented player, but he really is "short" also. I don't see him as a great defender. Yet, If Kirk can't bring consistency to his game, then I'll take Arenas as a replacement for both Gordon and Kirk. Arenas with another SG would me a complete replacement of the Bulls starting backcourt.

by exult463 on Dec 25, 2007 4:50 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

It doesn't matter what you personally think.

Only what works. Kirk, and the Bulls team as a whole, has done just fine defensively having Hinrich guard the SG and Gordon guarding the PG.

Notice the high ranks of defensive efficiency for this.

The only problem with Hinrich guarding the better guard is that it supposedly wears him down for offense and takes him out of that part of his game, as you said. With someone who dominates the ball as much as Arenas, this is much less of a problem.

Besides, I don't care if Arenas is a short defender. He can't be too much worse (if at all) than Gordon, and as I've said and everyone knows, this team has been plenty good on defense. Arenas is what Ben Gordon dreamed he could be. This team would clearly be better with him on it.

Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Dec 25, 2007 9:50 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

The problem with

Kirk playing SG isn't defense, it's on offense. Kirk is a lousy SG on offense. He simply doesn't play without the ball well enough to be a full time SG.

by Scotter on Dec 25, 2007 10:37 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I don't know how this counts as lousy.

He's actually been better this year at SG than PG.

http://www.82games.com/0708/07CHI2C.HTM

He was certainly better at PG than SG last year, but he was still above-average.

http://www.82games.com/0607/06CHI3C.HTM

Same with the year before.

http://www.82games.com/0506/05CHI3C.HTM

He's certainly better at point, but I don't understand where you're getting the "lousy SG on offense" thing. And from these numbers, assuming he doesn't practice point that much currently, I don't think I would say I know he couldn't handle it if he practiced it exclusively.

Are you getting information from somewhere else that paints a different picture?

Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Dec 25, 2007 11:09 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Lousy was too strong a word,

but it doesn't really change my point. It rests partly on Hinrich's stats at SG over the last two year. I don't put much stock in this year's position splits. But, the basis for what I said is mostly based on visual scouting confirmed by his statistical splits. Hinrich is good enough at SG offensively to encourage coaches to play him out of position offensively and fool people into thinking he's really a SG. Hinrich shoots the ball much better off the dribble than in catch and shoot situations. He's good enough to be average at SG, but that's a waste of his ability. You'd be better off trading him for a real SG because there's a little more than a handful of better PGs than Hinrich, but there are well over a dozen SGs better than Hinrich.

by Scotter on Dec 25, 2007 11:51 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

But if you followed the thread...

...you'll see that was my whole point: I'm interested in acquiring Gilbert Arenas. If that's done, I can't see keeping Gordon and Arenas together, and Arenas obviously dominates the ball.

I'm assuming you didn't read this Arenas stuff so you're lumping this idea in with all the other "move Hinrich to SG" stuff. I don't know how you get a better SG than Kirk after you've already given up whatever you had to to get Arenas (either straight trade with extension negotiations or through some sort of double sign-and-trade with Gordon+Nocioni/Wallace+picks).

Does this change your opinion?

Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Dec 26, 2007 12:02 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Further...

...I never once said Hinrich is really a SG. I think he's a point guard, and you can search my comments for defending that. I just think it's easier to move Hinrich to SG if they acquired Arenas than trying to find a better SG than Hinrich. If someone has a SG that's better than him, why would they trade that guy for a not-high-scoring, non-high-assisting PG? You'd probably have to go for a backup SG that you're pretty sure would be better with more playing time, but I don't know how you can guarantee that.

Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Dec 26, 2007 12:09 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

My original intention

was to support your argument that Hinrich can defend SGs just fine. In alot of matchups he's much better guarding SGs than PGs because his strengths as a defender are chasing and hand fighting with players off the ball. Arenas/Hinrich makes sense on defense with Kirk taking thougher defensive assignment.

And I think a trade could be made. I still maintain that Hinrich is very good PG, the slow start to the season doesn't change the last four years of development. People too often focus on what Hinrich isn't. He is a big PG on offense with consistent 3-point range. He can get his own shot off the dribble. He's not a creative passer in the open court and his refusal to throws lobs is a problem, but he's solid in the half court, especially when he can penetrate. His ability to play without the ball is well above-average for a PG. And he's a plus defender. He could play in just about any system for any team. That makes him an easily tradeable asset so I don't think it would be that hard to get a solid starting SG back. But, I still don't believe a trade needs to be made in the 1st place, except for Paxson pulling off a miracle and unloading Wallace.

by Scotter on Dec 26, 2007 1:21 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Maggette

wears a headband so hes a NO.

by eross226 on Dec 25, 2007 3:16 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Ahhh...

...but there's a new coach so they can expand their possible signees.

Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Dec 25, 2007 3:55 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I believe

this was Paxson's rule not Skiles? Paxson didn't like the the environment and attitude of players like E-Rob. I believe Skiles once wore a head ban while playing with the Magic?

by exult463 on Dec 25, 2007 4:55 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I'm very interested

to see how the on court attitudes of the players look. It is on the players now and I hope they make the most of it.

If it is Boylan who is made the interim coach will there be much change in this teams direction?

Please get this season turned around and play some great basketball.

by sue369 on Dec 25, 2007 5:38 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

We still need a down low presence.

With the departure of Skiles do you think that this opens up trade talks even more with other teams that were not on the radar as far as trading some of their key players?

by Skasmos on Dec 25, 2007 6:06 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Pax would have to start looking at trades

as a matter of his own survival at this point. Regardless of whether Skiles' input was or was not holding him back before.

"Duhon, don't make that garbage-time jumper... Save it for the next game!"

by bullhockey on Dec 25, 2007 7:27 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I actually think

its easier to get other players now, since we dont need "skiles" type players. Another coach is another style of gameplay which can incorporate other players. I can see something like getting gasol more of a given. I can see a trade of say a nocioni, more possible, i can see duhon or hinrich being traded on performance very quickly, i can see gordon given away for height, but i just cant see them getting rid of the "dead" bodys dead weight. Ben weighs weigh to much it would seem to get rid of.

im trying hard to become the next kirk hinrich, therefore im doing nothing more than being the next chris duhon.

by piccolomair on Dec 25, 2007 7:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

If we can get Gassol for low price...

That Aaron Gray thing showed that this team will be much better with real low post threat.

"RUN,TYRUS,RUN!!!"-Formerly Chicago Bulls coach S.Skiles

by Azabullsfan on Dec 25, 2007 7:50 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Why isn't this more of the discussion?

I think this factor has a lot to do with the decision to terminate Skiles. In the end, I think Pax looks at the team, looks at the league, and thinks he can make some deals, but the big glaring hole in the equation was the personal animosity many NBA players have towards Scott Skiles.

Anyone have KG quotes about Skiles? Considering those pacakges we offerred McHale for KG one might think Coach Skiles was a stumbling block.

by NBA Observer on Dec 26, 2007 9:09 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Gil or D Wade

I would really like to see the Bulls trade for one of these guys.

For a long time i have been a proponent Ben Gordon over Hinrich... am I alone in this? the reason i ask is that a trade for for Gil (whom I would prefer over DWADE) would likely involve Hinrich or Gordon.
I'm thinkin Hinrich, Noc, Noah, and du for Gil.

A trade for DWADE would prolly include BG, cause Wade is a 2 and as much as i prefer BG over Hinrich the backcourt of Hinrich and Dwade would be pretty awesome.

For either of these guys i think the Bulls will be able to trade only one of their young core and a couple other players instead of the 2/3 from the core necessary to get Kobe.

A TRADE MUST BE MADE

by Zac23 on Dec 25, 2007 7:48 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

D Wade

D Wade would be an unbelievable acquisition to the Bulls team, but lets be realistic. Why would the Heat want to trade DWade? I haven't heard any rumors indicating the Heat would even consider trading him. DWade is the Heat franchise. Every trade has to have some type of benefit/reason for both teams. If the Heat were dumb enough to trade Wade, you'd think they'd request 2 or 3 consecutive first round picks since we don't have a franchise or all-star player to give them in return.

As for Agent Zero, that seems like a possibility. The Wiz have played much better without Arenas, which could put some thoughts into the team's management about trying to package him for a couple of good role playing talent. Arenas definitely would help the Bulls if we would only have to give up one of our core 6 players (Hinrich, BG7, Deng, Wallace, Noch, TT). One question we have to keep in mind is the health of Arenas. Hasn't he consistently gotten injured the last couple of years? What type of injury was his latest? I forgot when he is projected to return....

Personally, as I've mentioned in a few posts the past couple of days, I think we should go Pau Gasol first, and then make a second trade for a big SG.

by Mattchoo on Dec 25, 2007 8:14 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Microfracture on his knee?

I think that's what Arenas had. For that, I think we're looking at giving up at least Hinrich/Gordon and Noah/Thomas. Since they already have Caron Butler, they'd be one of the few teams not asking for Lu. Plus, Antonio Daniels gives them a bigger PG, so they might be more willing to take on BG. The team needs to dump BG ASAP.

by snley on Dec 25, 2007 8:21 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

You're on crack!

There's no way that Riley gives up Wade, absolutely no way. He's the only above average player on that team. It's so ridiculous, why even mention it? Wade would have to speak up for a trade request first, and even then I'd doubt Riley would give him up. Wade's the only player they have that's even above average.

by snley on Dec 25, 2007 8:18 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

put this in YOUR crack pipe and smoke it

Steve Smith actually mentioned D Wade possibly returning to Chicago earlier today on ESPN. His comments were in reference to Wade possibly signing with the bulls after his 3 year extension and that Wade does not plan to stay in Miami for the long term. The heat are garbage and Wade is "depressed". Yes, wade is the only good player on the heat, but that team needs to be blown up as the Shaq/championship window is about to slam shut. Lottery picks aside the best way for the heat to start rebuilding is to trade and wade is their best bargaining chip. I would actually be hesitant to trade for Wade because he will be overvalued not just by the heat but by the Bulls. Yes he won a championship, but he was playing with shaq.

by Zac23 on Dec 25, 2007 11:30 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Wade

Despite injuries and questionable ability, i do think wade is one of the best game finishers in the league. He also is known for getting to the line when his shots arent falling. Considering that is two of the three big bull problems (the third being the lack of a true low post scorer) i think wade would be a good fit. The only problem is, what would miami ever want from us, we dont have much to give that miami would neccesserily want, unless they want to add big ben to thier collection of old has-been centers

im trying hard to become the next kirk hinrich, therefore im doing nothing more than being the next chris duhon.

by piccolomair on Dec 26, 2007 1:07 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Don't hold your breath

Until Wade actually speaks out and demands a trade, it's not worth even discussing. I wouldn't question his ability He had the highest PER in the league last year. It's the injury situation that would scare me most. If the Bulls are going to wait for that kind of player, may as well go back the Krause route and hope to bring Wade to Chicago along with LeBron after they both opt out of their contracts.

by snley on Dec 26, 2007 2:13 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

For the talent level we have

These trade senarios are aiming way too high. I still go back to Childress and Wilcox. The arguement against that I've gotten is that they are merely average. Well, average is better than below average, which is what I think we currently have at PF and SG. Since no one likes the WOW metrics, does anyone know the PER of Wilcox, Childress, and the Bulls' roster?

by hlac on Dec 25, 2007 8:24 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Arenas can opt out of his contract.

So... if the Wizards don't think they'll keep him, why not get something instead of nothing?

Plus, he can opt out of his contract, so it doesn't have to be a trade. Just most likely a sign-and-trade.

Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Dec 25, 2007 9:45 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

You haven't said...

...why either of those teams would want to trade those players.

Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Dec 25, 2007 10:03 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Arenas

Washington might not pay him alot for his next contract, and thus he may opt out and be on the market...i dont see a trade coming, so well have to battle tooth and nail to get him to sign with us, but washington might not want him especially seeing how that team has commented about playing better without agent zero.

im trying hard to become the next kirk hinrich, therefore im doing nothing more than being the next chris duhon.

by piccolomair on Dec 25, 2007 10:35 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Childress's PER is 17.03 and

Wilcox 17.49. Deng and Noah are tied at the moment at 17.03 according to KnickerBlogger. In season PER can always be found there along with the other Hollinger stats for those not paying for Insider. But, PER or WoW are just numbers unless you understand where those numbers come from.

All this trade stuff is premature. Before this team adds players, Paxson has to find out what is currently on the roster. Tyrus, Noah, Thabo, and Gray need to play consistent minutes in lineups that make sense, and they need playing time in that order. Gray may become an effective player, but there's been alot of exaggeration of both how effective Gray was is the last handful of games and how effective the team was with Gray in the game, don't get caught up in what the three stooges are spewing from your TV. If he gets minutes at the expense of Ben Wallace, Joe Smith, and Noc so much the better, but Gray's minutes shouldn't come at the expense of Tyrus and Noah. TT and Noah are the keys to the future, anything Gray does is a bonus.

by Scotter on Dec 25, 2007 10:29 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Yes

I agree, see what kind of hand we've been dealt here. Hopefully from now until the deadline we can establish whether any of these young guys have "consistent starter" potential.

by nateroth on Dec 26, 2007 1:59 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I think

We will make more of an effort to get Gasol and possibly get out from under Wallace's contract. I mentinoned a few trade scenarios on my blog but I have not talked about the Wallace angle. The problem with ditching a contract of that magnatude is you will have to take a bad contract in return. Thanks to all of you who have checked out my blog.

TMD- http://playahatersblog.blogspot.com

by TMD on Dec 25, 2007 9:36 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Dealing with Wallace will be the biggest challenge

Whoever the new coach is, supposedly Paxson is going to have more of a say in determining who plays. That may or may not be a good thing. Maybe it means Thomas and Noah will get more minutes, but how will Paxson react if the new coach decides that he needs to cut Wallace's minutes? The Bulls are the worst offensive team in the league, so you could make a good argument that a player as limited offensively as Wallace is shouldn't be playing 30 minutes a game. Will Pax be able to accept that, though? He's the guy that signed Wallace, so demoting Wallace wouldn't exactly reflect well on him. It's one thing to miss on a draft pick or two, but let's face it, screwing up on a big contact like Wallace got is the kind of mistake that gets GM's fired. I hope Pax realizes that you sometimes need to admit a mistake and move on, though, because if the Bulls continue to lose he may get fired anyways. He's on his second coaching hire, so it's his ass that's on the line now.

by Big D on Dec 25, 2007 9:54 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Further complicating

things is the fact that Reinsdorf and Wallace's agent are buddies. Pax won't want to mess with that angle, so it unfortunately appears that BW isn't going to see a significant reduction in playing time.

by No bull on Dec 26, 2007 2:02 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

could Paul Westphal jump ship in Dallas?

That one intrigues me a bit.

by T Maple on Dec 25, 2007 10:51 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

WNBA coach

I was surprised to see Westphal on an NBA bench this season. I thought he was cast off from the league and then only allowed back in to coach the WNBA.

by NBA Observer on Dec 26, 2007 9:12 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I think you're

thinking of Paul Westhead. Who coached the Phoenix Mercury to a championship this summer before joining the Sonics this year. Westhead was out of the league for awhile because the league had slowed down to a point that no one was playing his style of offense.

by Scotter on Dec 26, 2007 12:31 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I like the

Zaza Pachulia and Childres tade for BG and Joe SMith and throw Du or Noc in there to make Atlanta happy if they want more. What do you guys think?

by eross226 on Dec 25, 2007 11:06 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

whats with

the childress love? Zaza who? Common man. BG whether a 6th man or not is worth more than that. Add in Duhon or Noc? A little bit over the top dont you think? Not that I have seen them (Zazildress) play that much, but I am pretty sure you haven't either. I am just saying that people get excited about so and so because they have good numbers but seeing someone play everyday is a much better way to get a good sense of their value. Rather, it is the only way.

by Sambossanova on Dec 26, 2007 2:05 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

You need both

Both stats and scouting are very, very important to anyone looking to make an honest evaluation. It would be ignorant to refuse to acknowledge one or the other.

by snley on Dec 26, 2007 2:18 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Correct

i dont watch the hawks i just hate BGs game. He cant play D, if hes cold he keeps forcing up shots and doesnt even try to creat for himself and last he isnt even clutch.

by eross226 on Dec 26, 2007 2:22 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

sadly

Most bulls fans are married to this organizations win championships idea. Too many comments that lack total common sense. Wallace must play because his agent is the same as Reinsdorf. LOL. BG for childress. LOL. He is due a contract too. Is he worth 50 million because he's taller than BG?

I watched many protland games and LA is NOT a post player. Stop just looking at stats and watch the game. We have talent. Do you notice BG gets doubled off every pick roll because our frontcourt players can't make teams pay. Lets at least watch 20 games without skiles before we do anything drastic. I didn't see this many people slamming our talent before the season.

Westphal might come now becuase Dallas is not doing so great right. Didn't he coach the Suns back in the day?

by Blacknight23 on Dec 26, 2007 7:37 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

You're mostly correct

about the dumb comments, but BG isn't getting doubled, the second defender is just stepping out after the first defender is picked. It shows how weak BG's ball handling is that he can't dribble around the big man who is stepping out.

Nocioni-Khryapa in '08

by bullshooter on Dec 26, 2007 12:11 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

And childress has a Fro : )

by eross226 on Dec 26, 2007 2:23 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

SHAWN MARION

Bulls should go after him next year.

youtube.com/angryasianace

by AngryAsianAce on Dec 26, 2007 3:59 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

Now there is

a heck of a player!

by marionette on Dec 26, 2007 10:22 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

If the Bulls win tonight

Santa Klaus must be real because this roster isn't winning at San Antonio without help from a higher power.

by NBA Observer on Dec 26, 2007 9:15 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

Paxon says he hasn't given up on this year.

But unless this team makes a dramatic turn around, this team will be first round fodder at best.

What can the Bulls do? BW is virtually untradeable. They will have to make serious decisions on Gordon and Deng.

Deng will want somewhere around 13-15 mil per. SOME TEAM WILL PAY HIM THAT, if the Bulls decide not to.

Gordon will probably want around 12 - 10 mil per. He's obviously not worth that much. Bulls will most likely re-sign Deng, but lose Gordon. That's why he is a must to be traded. Maybe package him along with out top pick for a top 5 pick (this is speculating that the Bulls fall down to around the 10 pick again judging by their performance so far).

by RogersPark Kris on Dec 26, 2007 9:36 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

Seattle

Bulls get
Sonics 2008 1st round pick
Sonics 2009 1st round pick
Chris Wilcox
Delonte West

Sonics get
Bulls 2008 1st round pick
Ben Wallace
Ben Gordon

Thoughts? I think we have to trade Gordon because he's not worth 10 mil per in my view and I don't think he'll sign with us again for less than that.

by NBA Observer on Dec 26, 2007 9:50 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I'm in!

by chgobr on Dec 26, 2007 10:19 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

You can't trade consecutive 1st rounders

It's an NBA rule.

In Pax we Trust!

by Jobu on Dec 26, 2007 11:28 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

not that you can't trade first rounders

but you have to use first rounder.

Seattle has a couple picks coming in from Phoenix (for taking Kurt Thomas off their hands) so they may be able to deal both.

I won't bother looking up their exact pick situation, since it's a dumb idea that they'd deal picks for Ben Wallace anyway.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 26, 2007 11:51 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

True. Good Point.

In Pax we Trust!

by Jobu on Dec 26, 2007 12:19 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I would do it in a heartbeat

Not so sure about the Sonics tho'.

by RogersPark Kris on Dec 26, 2007 10:08 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

why not?

The Sonics get defense and rebounding right now the two things they desperately need. Wallace can play PF in their system. Gordon gives you a second scoring option and will allow Durant to guard the 3 position.

I really want those Sonics draft picks.

by NBA Observer on Dec 26, 2007 10:24 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

all the sonics 'need'

is to be terrible and get better draft choices.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 26, 2007 10:33 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

anyone else see mariottis article on this?

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/mariottiweb/712111,mariotti122407.article

personally i thought it was especially stupid and thought that it proved just how little mariotti knows about the nba.

by Mike C on Dec 26, 2007 11:21 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

thus, why

Eddie Munster doesn't get mentioned here very often.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 26, 2007 11:49 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

It's just one

man's opinion and the fact that he is a tool speaks volumes.

Please get this season turned around and play some great basketball.

by sue369 on Dec 26, 2007 12:59 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

woah

Name calling is way out of line. Only Jay gets to do that. Poor guy.

Officially a hater on Ballhype!

by hscs on Dec 26, 2007 1:02 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

No it's not

out of line. I can say anything I want.

Please get this season turned around and play some great basketball.

by sue369 on Dec 26, 2007 1:04 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

fair enough

I guess I'm as misunderstood as Jay too.

Officially a hater on Ballhype!

by hscs on Dec 26, 2007 1:10 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Sam Smith checked in with another

pretty good column today. He brought up a couple points that have been discussed here a number of times. First, he mentioned that Scottie Pippin might be brought back into the fold now that Skiles is gone--that he and Skiles didn't see eye-to-eye. Second, he mentioned the Bulls pssibly rounding out their coaching staff with an actual big man big-man's coach. He mentions that Skiles always felt he could coach the big guys just as well as a big guy could. I for one would be happy to see somebody on the staff that the big guys could directly relate to.

by alec on Dec 26, 2007 1:25 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Random thoughts after the firing...

I think Skiles needed to go, but I felt a little bad for him, since he did turn things around. But we needed a change and this was the right one.
I am shocked to hear players like Deng and Du admitting they quit on Skiles. I thought we were getting high 'character' guys? I think we have learned that 'character' is about really hating to lose, and some of these guys surprisingly failed the test.
Big Ben is a whiny disruptive loser, in the guise of a 'tough leader'
Please don't get Larry Brown. He has all of Skiles' faults magnified.
I would love to see Noah, T2 and even Gray get more playing time. I think all will be solid contributors in the NBA.
BG and Noce need to come off the bench now, they jack up way too many low % shots
The bottomline is that even though we fired the coach, our roster is still quite mediocre at best. We need a trade.

ok, end of rambling

by bullsfaninbigapple on Dec 26, 2007 1:28 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

I would disagree with your comment about the

roster being mediocre at best. I think the truth is more that we just don't know...it might be mediocre, it might not. The only way to find out is to give the new guys meaningful minutes.

We've seen all of them do well (speaking mainly of TT, Thabo and Noah), then, instead of getting the opportunity to build any momentum, they disappear for games on end. Even Thabo, last year, was having some real impact games. Then this year...nothing.

by alec on Dec 26, 2007 1:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

For point numba 2

Just cuz your high character doesnt mean you cant get agitated or lose passion. Remember pro basketball in the end is a business. Im sure alot of us here are very good people, and are very good at our given jobs, but if our boss is always hounding us for five years or so, even though we always do good and get the job done, at some point you cant take it anymore. No matter how good your boss is as a person, if he is always pressuring u, ull give up.

im trying hard to become the next kirk hinrich, therefore im doing nothing more than being the next chris duhon.

by piccolomair on Dec 26, 2007 3:43 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

What if Skiles is right?

Skiles appears to have been fired because he had given up on his team. But what if he is right? What if Wallace is too old, Deng isn't a star in the making, Hinrich isn't even an average point guard, Gordon isn't an average shooting guard, Thomas isn't coachable, etc., etc.? Then what?

by Tim S. on Dec 26, 2007 1:55 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Young teams don't regress like this naturally

I'm usually not one to buy too much into what goes on off the court/field playing into a team's performance. Given the youth of this team, status quo from last year should have been the basement for performance. Even if their ceiling wasn't higher, doesn't mean Skiles should have given up as he did. I wouldn't worry too much about what Skiles thought. What's important now is what Paxson thinks and what he can do with his "assets."

by snley on Dec 26, 2007 2:29 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

if he's right

then the bulls are in trouble. but don't you have to can skiles to find out? and im not sold on the idea of gordon as a below average 2 guard; players in their early-mid 20's just dont get inexplicably worse

by Mike C on Dec 26, 2007 2:31 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

We all committ suicide!

by chgobr on Dec 26, 2007 2:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Then Pax is fired

and we're again in ..."rebuilding mode"...

"RUN,TYRUS,RUN!!!"-Formerly Chicago Bulls coach S.Skiles

by Azabullsfan on Dec 26, 2007 2:53 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Unless Reinsdorf is really behind the Wallace

contract, as some have reported. If so, he might not blame Paxson for that deal blowing up in their faces. But I agree that if Skiles is right, the next step is rebuilding around the youngest players, including Deng, who is still pretty young. And that means bringing in a coach who works well with young players, and not someone like Larry Brown. Maybe an offensive specialist, for a change.

by Tim S. on Dec 26, 2007 5:53 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs