Face-full of blame pie
Zero-sum blame game isn't just my experimental jazz-fusion project, it's the idea that because there are many people to blame, nobody deserves to be singled out.
I don't believe in that.
So, even though Ben Gordon was invisible, Ben Wallace was 'the dead body' (credit to BullHockey for that one, although I'll give Wallace some praise for keeping Bynum from doing too much), and Hinrich rediscovered his love of turnovers, this will be yet another rant on Skiles.
It'll be a shorter one, because it's just more of the same: completely arbitrary lineup tinkering. I actually thought he suppressed that instinct in the first half, as instead of going to Adrian Griffin after both Hinrich and Duhon were benched with foul trouble, he instead moved Deng to guard in a lineup with Nocioni and Thomas.
Thomas was putting in another good game, but in his only meaningful minute of 2nd half play he was poked in the eye and had to leave with 3:39 left in the third quarter, replaced by Nocioni. Two minutes later Wallace came out for Aaron Gray. That's right, a Gray-Nocioni frontcourt.
I was leaving comments during the game and when I saw that Gray had stayed in to start the 4th, wrote: Skiles will coach with two hands around his own neck.
And that's what happened. The Gray-Noc frontcourt stayed out there over half of the 4th, as Tyrus had apparently the worst eye-poke of all time (although he came back (only) after Noc sprained his ankle, so it's not like he wasn't available), and Skiles also hasn't been reading David Thorpe's emails, as Noah received a DNP.
The results of that frontcourt expiriment could've been worse, which (as the gameflow isn't up so it's by hand) I believe was a -3. But just watching that team out there (substantial Duhon time during that stretch as well) was knowing that they were in no danger of actually taking the lead.
And it's just confirmation that there is no plan. And worse yet, instead of a 'stick with the plan' plan we get 'see what sticks'. And nothing sticks, it stinks. (take that, blog contest organizers)
I'd love to follow a team that didn't have such a willingness (bordering on desire) to be undermatched.
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I feel like the tv boys
by hscs on Dec 19, 2007 9:39 AM CST 0 recs
lol
by ScottieCartwright on
Dec 19, 2007 9:51 AM CST
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I heard that same line
The worst part is that it was simulcast on NBATV. Not raising their games on national tv, that's for sure.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
Dec 19, 2007 9:53 AM CST
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I didn't watch the game
by tyrus4prez on Dec 19, 2007 9:48 AM CST 0 recs
Pledge me
Paxson needs to put Skiles on notice. Give him until the second week of January. If the Bulls continue to play .500 to sub .500 basketball then you have to terminate Skiles. The roster is underperforming, but the coaching strategy, player rotation, and failure to insert players where their talents are best suited is ludicrous.
The Bulls are fast becoming a traveling circus.
by NBA Observer on Dec 19, 2007 10:01 AM CST 0 recs
right. there has to be some point
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
Dec 19, 2007 10:04 AM CST
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it might come sooner than we think
LAL - last night
WAS - on the road...never easy...Haywood always seems to own Wallace...Stevenson will bruise Hinrich's self esteem
BOS - nuff said
HOU - at home, but never an easy one...Kirk will get embarrassed by T-mac...Yao will kick in Wallace's face
SA - nuff said
MIL - they spanked us early in the year...these guys always give us trouble...Redd will abuse Hinrich once again
NY - on the road...this MIGHT be a win, but I won't be surprised if they choke it away...look for Crawford to try and redeem himself against Kirk and roast him in the process. I predict Curry will get out of his funk and take apart Wallace, and eat one of his arms just for good measure
ORL - At home, but Howard will utterly destroy Wallace
There seems to be a pattern here...
by ScottieCartwright on
Dec 19, 2007 10:24 AM CST
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It looks like, at best, they'll go 2-5.
by alec on
Dec 19, 2007 11:02 AM CST
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I'm not big on bashing the beat writers
but as far as I can tell, the only substitution discussion mentioned this morning was Gray playing instead of Wallace. Nobody mentioned anything about Tyrus' eye-poke of doom. Or the fact that Gray and Nocioni were paired together. Or reasons behind Noah's DNP.
We did get Hanley saying "Sefolosha's playing time has diminished since coach Scott Skiles shortened the Bulls' rotation recently." without noting the irony that Aaron bleepin Gray made his way on the floor for 20 minutes as a part of that 'short' rotation.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 19, 2007 10:02 AM CST 0 recs
Anything on Noah
Furthermore, with Noah they could bring Bynum out of the paint and make him guard Noah setting perimeter screens thus limiting his shot blocking potential.
This is all on Skiles.
by NBA Observer on
Dec 19, 2007 10:17 AM CST
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Not to mention
I noticed him being very upset on the bench in the 4-th qtr.,Lakers made a 8-0 run or so,Skiles
called TO,every one got up from the bench to
kinda support players, except Noah watching on the flor...
by Azabullsfan on
Dec 19, 2007 2:27 PM CST
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...you're just mediuim-sized
by alec on
Dec 19, 2007 11:07 AM CST
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The Chicago beat writers have become
by chgobr on
Dec 19, 2007 12:32 PM CST
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Gray
Both he and Noah are effective in picking up garbage points. Wallace is not. I'm not saying that Ben should be third-string, but he should not be dominating the minutes at center anymore. Too much of a liability on offense.
by nateroth on
Dec 19, 2007 1:34 PM CST
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Skiles
Its pretty simple, play the players who are playing well.
Bench the players who aren't.
Starters should be:
Hinrich, Duhon, Joe Smith, Tyrus Thomas, Noah.
Then you would have a loaded bench of Gordon, Noc (he plays better off the bench) , Gray, Thabo, and Wallace. I suppose even though if Skiles ever pulled one of his patented "no minutes" pt for Ben I wouldn't mind.
by RogersPark Kris on Dec 19, 2007 10:18 AM CST 0 recs
Did Deng
by exult463 on
Dec 19, 2007 10:25 AM CST
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LOL
Starters:
Kirk, Duh, Deng, TT, Wallace.
Sorry Joe, back to the bench.
by RogersPark Kris on
Dec 19, 2007 10:27 AM CST
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Poor Noah. That was a fast hook.
by alec on
Dec 19, 2007 11:09 AM CST
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This is what I
Final starting lineup.
Hinrich, Duhon, Deng, Thomas, Noah.
Wallace should remain on the bench and Joe SMITH gets the hook.
by RogersPark Kris on
Dec 19, 2007 11:14 AM CST
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RogersPark Kris
by exult463 on
Dec 19, 2007 12:24 PM CST
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That
by RogersPark Kris on
Dec 19, 2007 2:06 PM CST
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more of this
Short list of actions that need coined terms
- Nocioni's arm flailing drives where he uses the off arm to shove off to sell calls
- Kirk's screech when he's whistled for a foul
- Tyrus and his train wreck drives to the hoop
- Ben Wallace's statue impressions
by NBA Observer on
Dec 19, 2007 3:47 PM CST
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What about Team Plays!
by snley on
Dec 19, 2007 3:52 PM CST
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stonehedge?
by NBA Observer on
Dec 19, 2007 4:05 PM CST
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Move names
... The Fizer.
by Hiryu on
Dec 19, 2007 4:35 PM CST
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This loss is so damn frustrating
How does he explain his high praise for Noah recently where he tries to explain Thomas' lack of playing time, and not even give him a shot to alter the game.
I will say the Gray wasn't bad out there but he certainly wasn't anything of a game changer. He wasn't out there during some stretch run where the Bulls had looked like to be controlling the game. Basically, he was out there just to be a big boy not making too many mistakes.
That is my biggest beef right now with Skiles. He contradicts himself so many times and never seems to make up his mind. The only thing he's stuck to was saying he had to get Nocioni some more time, and that he has . . . at the expense of our lottery picks
by Option27 on Dec 19, 2007 10:31 AM CST 0 recs
I'll make this short, like Skiles
Lately, this assumption is being challenged.
Aaron Gray should not play ahead of Noah. Ever. We give a DNP to our third most productive player. WTF?
Thomas is useful, apparently.
Hinrich should not get leeway for being a gym-rat. Pulled after a bad pass. Put in when Duhon does something dumb, or after he's "thought about what he's done".
This should go without saying:
Our future starting five(Hinrich,Gordon,Deng,Thomas,Noah), should, uh, play. They barely know how to pronounce Joakim still.
by cubbybear on Dec 19, 2007 11:12 AM CST 0 recs
I wouldn't be surprised if our future
by alec on
Dec 19, 2007 11:38 AM CST
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oh, we'd be so tall!
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
Dec 19, 2007 1:33 PM CST
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Easy solution
by cubbybear on
Dec 19, 2007 5:07 PM CST
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And Matt, it should be allowed to pass
Yes, your penultimate paragraph was award worthy.
by alec on Dec 19, 2007 11:55 AM CST 0 recs
guh
by hscs on
Dec 19, 2007 12:13 PM CST
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agreed.
It's not that surprising though, bloggers like to talk about bloggers.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
Dec 19, 2007 12:18 PM CST
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So...
What's sad is that I wouldn't be surprised to think that was subconsciously playing in Skiles' mind.
by tyger1147 on Dec 19, 2007 12:24 PM CST 0 recs
Skiles
I'm sure this has been pointed out many times on the site. I'm just understanding this..
by exult463 on Dec 19, 2007 12:46 PM CST 0 recs
What is Skiles supposed to do???!!!
by SlickRick76 on Dec 19, 2007 1:29 PM CST 0 recs
Skiles
by goldengod on
Dec 19, 2007 1:57 PM CST
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interesting thoughts on skiles...
as for my second point, tyrus has to prove he is ready to play at the nba level night in and night out. has he???? no, so what does skiles owe tyrus??? nothing. tyrus himself isnt even getting upset with a lack of minutes. do you honestly think skiles isnt playing ty because he is in his "dog-house"?? you cant get to where skiles is at coaching that way. this isnt hoosiers for christ sake. he isnt playing him because tyrus isn't going to give us a chance to win when he is blowing defensive assignments and looking lost on offense. with noc bg and kirk turning the ball over at an alarming rate, we dont need another guy out there who has a tendency to be a TO machine. stop calling for more tyrus and more wins at the same time, its not going to happen. because with everyone else playing like crap, a healthy dose of tyrus is not the answer, unless you want to keep losing. he isn't there yet folks, maybe you should take the coaches word for it. i dont know, skiles only sees him play and practice every f###ing day, he might know what he is doing a little bit more than all us bloggers
by Conor on Dec 19, 2007 1:59 PM CST 0 recs
three things
- where's your blog?
- your '?' key is stuck.
- bitching about Skiles' substitution patterns isn't a new phenomenon.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
Dec 19, 2007 2:04 PM CST
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three things
- relevant questions please
- just added a few extra question marks where i thought they were necessary. thanks for noticing.
- i understand that, i'm just saying when the players are playing well (Last year), no one had a serious problem with skiles minute distribution. and now that the players arent playing well (whatever the reason is) everyone wants skiles out. classic yankee fan syndrome. its lame
by Conor on
Dec 19, 2007 3:05 PM CST
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Its not about
by goldengod on
Dec 19, 2007 2:08 PM CST
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i know what you are saying
by Conor on
Dec 19, 2007 3:12 PM CST
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Did anyone notice the Big Ben Bell didn't ring?
by SlickRick76 on Dec 19, 2007 2:16 PM CST 0 recs
I heard it
by sue369 on
Dec 19, 2007 2:21 PM CST
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Yes during the game...
by SlickRick76 on Dec 19, 2007 2:24 PM CST 0 recs
Ha! There are so many smart people here!
by SlickRick76 on Dec 19, 2007 2:26 PM CST 0 recs
They should rename it the Grandfather Clock Chime.
Well the Bulls have a big man that can dunk, too, and pretty well. So why is it that this team that has so much trouble scoring doesn't try that at least once or twice a game?
Even Tyson and Eddy were able to convert on some of those kinds of plays, and that was before the Bulls were "Disappointing", back when they were just "Bad".
by bullhockey on Dec 19, 2007 2:39 PM CST 0 recs
Did Cedric
The bigger salary rules in this case, because somebody's credibility was on the line.
For some reason, Ben Wallace certainly has been very healthly.
Coaches, GM, personnel directors, etc forced to play lots of money feel less discomfort while the overestimated player is on DL because you are not consistently reminded of the hugh financial mistake based on their day-in-day out game play.
Bears now can see what the other reserve running backs can do during this loss season?
by exult463 on Dec 19, 2007 2:46 PM CST 0 recs
not sure what 'football' is.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
Dec 19, 2007 2:53 PM CST
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Not only that....
by tyger1147 on
Dec 19, 2007 3:05 PM CST
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typer1147
"but I has no idea what he's talking about".
by exult463 on
Dec 19, 2007 3:24 PM CST
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Time for Skiles to go
The biggest thing that's turned me around on this is his strange refusal to play Noah and Tyrus Thomas at the same time.
In and of itself, that's a logically defensible position based on the fact that having two young big guys out there is typically a recipe for disaster. Quick fouls, bad defense, you name it. But that logical defense goes out the window when your veteran alternatives are mediocre at best, your team doesn't appear to be going anywhere, and, most obviously, instead of playing two young big guys (Thomas and Noah), you're playing two young big guys (Thomas and Gray).
Robbed of an obvious logic, going out of the way to not play these guys together just makes it seem that Skiles is just going on the basis of stubbornness. What it reminds me of in particular is a few years ago when Bill Cartwright spent 3/4ths of a season playing Jay Williams and Jamal Crawford, our two most promising guys by far, with every combination of shitty players he could think of except each other. When they finally did play together, they actually played fairly well, especially by the extremely low standards of the time. They were certainly better than the alternatives. Which is the point.
So return that point to Skiles and look at the context of this season. At this point, even if we sneak into the playoffs, I don't see a lot of hope for the Bulls being competitive with the best teams in the East, let alone the West. Barring some sort of extreme stroke of fortune, the successful development of Tyrus and Noah is the only major means I see of improving this team. Sure, we can expect some improvement from our other young players, but I'm talking about major leaps here.
That doesn't mean we should dish out the entitlement minutes, but I do have a major problem with what appears to be a completely illogical aversion to giving it a go with our two most important frontcourt prospects.
To wit, I calculated it up and Noah and Thomas have logged a total of 17.18 minutes of court time together. Gray and Thomas have logged 16.43 minutes together.
The Bulls tend to play Thomas with Wallace; 62% of his minutes have come with him, 20% with Smith, and 9% with Nocioni. 7% with Gray and 5% with Noah.
The Bulls tend to play Noah with anyone. Except Thomas. 26% with Nocioni, 25% with Wallace, 23% with Smith and 19% with Gray. Only 8% of his minutes have come with Thomas.
In other words, Skiles is pretty sure these guys are substitutes and not complements. Out of all the frontcourt guys we've got, Noah and Thomas appear to be the least likely to play together.
by Sports2 on Dec 19, 2007 3:33 PM CST 0 recs
What do you think?
I think that if you stop inserting Nocioni at the 4 you could clear up the logjam in the front court and allow Nocioni to eat up minutes from the players that are getting minutes that really are underperforming.
Right now Nocioni is coming in for Deng on a schedule. However, he enters at the 4 if the starting 4 or 5 picks up 2 fouls early.
by NBA Observer on
Dec 19, 2007 3:53 PM CST
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well
Thus the vexing life of a tweener.
Unfortunately, Skiles' only self-reflection when it comes to lineups is that he has to get Nocioni out there as much as possible. So he'll be ahead of most frontcourt options for a while.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
Dec 19, 2007 4:01 PM CST
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And he only gets to the FT line as a 4
by Scotter on
Dec 19, 2007 4:41 PM CST
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So...
HOWEVER!
Luol Deng played more minutes last year than ANY PLAYER on ANY championship team of the past four years.
Deng had 3071 last year. Ben Wallace came closest in 2004 with 3050 minutes played. Wade was next closest with 2892. The next four were the other three Detroit guys (Billups, Hamilton and Prince) and Parker in 2005 and Duncan last year, all between 2700-2775 minutes for the season.
Hinrich-2839, Gordon-2703, Wallace-2696 last year as well.
(Oh, and if you think the Celtics ARE riding the big three into the ground, THEY ARE (on pace): Allen-2884, Pierce-3124, Garnett-2902. If they don't get hurt, they'll definitely have to start taking time off.)
by tyger1147 on
Dec 19, 2007 4:47 PM CST
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The Tim Thomas treatment
by snley on Dec 19, 2007 4:15 PM CST 0 recs
it's not even worth talking about
Look up Simmons' worst contracts, it's the only way to get Wallace off the team at this point.
(but limit his minutes, sure. I can't believe Skiles played him 48 just a week ago. He really has no idea what to do with these guys)
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
Dec 19, 2007 4:26 PM CST
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Should have been more clear
by snley on
Dec 19, 2007 5:21 PM CST
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I wonder
Alternatively, it's possible that Skiles doesn't want to have an all feather-weight team out there. Noah, for all his length and athleticism, gets pushed around pretty often - he's been a far better offensive rebounder than defensive. Big Ben, at the very least, puts that dead body of his in front of the man he's guarding.
What upsets me as an ordinary fan is the discrepency in how Skiles treats his players. Tyrus can get poked in the eye: hook. Noah can have a GOOD GAME: hook. Ben somnoambulates his ass through a half, not getting a rebound, and there he is in crunch time - not getting rebounds.
I'm not sure why Skiles feels a need to afford such unwarranted respect to a player who's given this franchise relatively little. Luol, Deng and Kirk have been here - they deserve the slack. And Ben deserves what he hasn't gotten: a seat on the bench to start the game.
by Freethefro on
Dec 19, 2007 5:22 PM CST
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