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Around SBN: Ohio State And Florida Target 2013 Receiver Recruits

Open Game Thread #21: Bulls vs New York Knicks

[UPDATE: Tyrus Thomas is suspended for tonight's game. -Matt]

[Thanks to prashantrao for the game preview. Important game-time strategy update: Isiah is going to try zone. Skiles is telling the fellas to try harder. -Matt]

Since a disastrous start, it appears the Bulls have at least started beating the teams they're "supposed" to beat, so tonight's game against New York is a reasonable test of whether the team has truly turned a corner, or whether the last few wins have just masked continuing problems. Having already played New York once this season, and turned in an absolute stinker, it will be interesting to see if the Bulls have made tangible improvements.

The Bulls and Knicks both last played Wednesday night, both having lost (the Knicks to the Sonics 117-110, the Bulls to the Pacers 117-102).

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Please play like
the team we know you can be (or hoped you would be).
Please get this season turned around and play some great basketball.

by sue369 on Dec 14, 2007 3:29 PM CST reply actions  

Zone, man, does it even matter
with this Bulls team anymore? One has to wonder.

I can only hope that Duhon gets major, major minutes in the event of a zone, since he apparently is the only guard who takes it to the hole anymore.

Driving it to the hole should also prove interesting with those two big, earthbound beasts in there for the Knicks.

"Duhon, don't make that garbage-time jumper... Save it for the next game!"

by bullhockey on Dec 14, 2007 3:45 PM CST reply actions  

Where'd you learn your hoops strategy
you play a zone so that the other team can't drive on you.  you play a zone because your man defense is poor.  against a zone you have to be able to hit jumpshots.
Nocioni-Khryapa in '08

by bullshooter on Dec 14, 2007 6:30 PM CST up reply actions  

Right.
That's why the zone was banned for so long: because it discouraged drives to the basket.
Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Dec 14, 2007 8:58 PM CST up reply actions  

Right. Unless you can't shoot from the outside.
When teams back off of you and play zone they're daring you to hit from the outside. And this Bulls team has proven incapable of doing that.

The solution is to generate movement in the defending team. This is done by driving the ball in to the teeth of the defense or by forcefeeding it down low.

Either one of these gets the defensive players moving, and ideally results in enough passing for a relatively uncontested layup. Or, you guessed it, an open jumper in rhythm.

Although theoretically any NBA team should have a bunch of guys who can just show up on the offensive end of the court and start canning jumpers, it's generally accepted that even decent outside shooters need to get into a rhythm in an offensive set before they can shoot well, or before they can take a "good shot". This is why, for example, in the triangle offense, Phil Jackson used to call out from the bench that he wanted at least 3 passes before a shot was taken.

Of course, there are teams that are talented enough to kill you from the outside once you go to a zone--think what would happen if the Knicks packed their defenders into the lane and dared the Suns to shoot the long ball.

However, especially with a poor shooting team like the Bulls, taking the first jumper available because the Knicks are laying off of the perimeter guys could result in long rebounds, fast breaks, and a deficit. Which would be fine, if these Bulls could score in bunches to overcome quick deficits.

But as we've seen, they need to play hard on both ends of the floor literally every possession to have a chance to win, unlike more talented teams like the Spurs or (again) the Suns.

So yeah, I definitely see what you're saying, but the Bulls have shown themselves to be incapable of just instantly punishing teams from the outside the moment defenders lay off of them at the perimeter.

"Duhon, don't make that garbage-time jumper... Save it for the next game!"

by bullhockey on Dec 15, 2007 12:29 AM CST up reply actions  

nice preview, Prash

Amazing that the Knicks play Randolph and Curry at the same time.  It totally limits what they can do on offense.  It's almost like their going for a Spurs-in-the-late-90s kind of thing (with Duncan and Robinson), only much fatter and dumber.

At any rate, Bulls usually play well against NYK, that last clunker notwithstanding.  I've got a feeling Hinrich and Ben Wallace are going to show up and play great tonight ... just a hunch.

by Bayern Munich on Dec 14, 2007 4:16 PM CST reply actions  

Big Ben's shot selection
Just from listening on the radio to recent games, it seemed like Wallace has been taking more shots, planned ones too, and not with much success. I'm all for rewarding the big guy for working so hard on the defense and rebounding (except when they inexplicably give it to him several feet from the basket w/ the shot clock winding down) but I wonder what's up with that.

by T Maple on Dec 14, 2007 5:25 PM CST up reply actions  

My problem
with his shot selection is when he catches the ball 3 ft. from the hoop with no one in front of him and he doesn't even look at the basket, just passes it out.

by bleargh on Dec 14, 2007 7:36 PM CST up reply actions  

Prashantrao
Have you watched last game?That was a test about "turning corner".And they fail.
So,todays win(they must(!)blow them badly) over terrible team,woudn't mean
anything except 1W.
We're pretty far from the "corner".
Our next 4 opponents are LA,WAS,BOS,HOU.Those teams are good examinners.

by Azabullsfan on Dec 14, 2007 5:47 PM CST reply actions  

Ben Gordon
nice drive(finally) to the hoop and 1.

by Azabullsfan on Dec 14, 2007 7:45 PM CST reply actions  

At least we are
rebounding well.  If we get two tries on our end it isn't quite as bad.  :)

by cranscape on Dec 14, 2007 7:50 PM CST up reply actions  

Or
we can drive more.Kniks are not good...

by Azabullsfan on Dec 14, 2007 7:51 PM CST up reply actions  

They are
busy...buying nuchos and beer.
Give them some time.

by Azabullsfan on Dec 14, 2007 7:53 PM CST up reply actions  

I noticed that too.
We didn't do anything too bad to warrant the deadness.  I noticed the music was dead too.  Huh.  Sounds better now though.  

by cranscape on Dec 14, 2007 7:58 PM CST up reply actions  

Before the game
I posted to the wrong tread,that I had feeling
about Noah's great game today.
So far,so good.

by Azabullsfan on Dec 14, 2007 8:09 PM CST reply actions  

Quiet around here tonight!
If nba.com boxscore is correct, Kirk is halfway to a triple double tonight.
"I believe. I believe. It's silly, but I believe." (Miracle on 34th Street)

by wjb1492 on Dec 14, 2007 8:43 PM CST reply actions  

Noah and Thomas.
Gosh, I can't wait until Skiles (or Paxson) gets Skiles' head out of his ass and plays these guys together. I'm like the 22 and under front court idea more and more.
Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Dec 14, 2007 8:57 PM CST reply actions  

Um, I missed
why Kirk was changing his uni at the bench. Anyone know why?
Please get this season turned around and play some great basketball.

by sue369 on Dec 14, 2007 9:16 PM CST reply actions  

Do you really need a reason?
j/k - he had blood on it
"I believe. I believe. It's silly, but I believe." (Miracle on 34th Street)

by wjb1492 on Dec 14, 2007 9:20 PM CST up reply actions  

Well I didn't
think he was doing it just for us girls but you never know. ;-)

Thanks for letting me know. Cool that he has a triple double.

Please get this season turned around and play some great basketball.

by sue369 on Dec 14, 2007 9:38 PM CST up reply actions  

Blood.
Someone got blood on his jersey and shorts.  And then a play later they saw some on Deng and he had to change too.  It was one of the NY players bleeding on everyone and they finally figured out who.  Got some nice hoots from the crowd.  Hey, I am a girl so I notice these fine details.  

by cranscape on Dec 14, 2007 9:20 PM CST up reply actions  

Hey, I didn't know we had another one!
Welcome to the club - I think that makes 4 of us?
"I believe. I believe. It's silly, but I believe." (Miracle on 34th Street)

by wjb1492 on Dec 14, 2007 9:33 PM CST up reply actions  

Yes!
And someone better put the dressing highlights on youtube. :)

by KT on Dec 14, 2007 9:37 PM CST up reply actions  

I'm recording it
so I'll watch it again later. :)
Please get this season turned around and play some great basketball.

by sue369 on Dec 14, 2007 9:40 PM CST up reply actions  

A whole four now?
It would be funny if all of the people here turned out to be women.  It is typically difficult to tell I'd assume.

by cranscape on Dec 14, 2007 9:54 PM CST up reply actions  

5?
And yes, it should be difficult except where someone's name is in their nickname. :)  though sometimes that's still hard.

by Jaina on Dec 14, 2007 10:21 PM CST up reply actions  

I didn't know
you were a girl. Nice to have another female voice here.
Please get this season turned around and play some great basketball.

by sue369 on Dec 14, 2007 9:41 PM CST up reply actions  

All girls together, as they say.
I am not sure if it really enters into play when it comes to my basketball thoughts.  Although I did notice they didn't show Deng's wardrobe malfunction.  Unfair.  

by cranscape on Dec 14, 2007 9:51 PM CST up reply actions  

Hey Noah has 10 points but only 1 board??
I guess thats why skiles is scared to play him and ty together.  Both of them shot blockers he may be scared of them not getting any boards.

by Ibleedbullsred on Dec 14, 2007 9:19 PM CST reply actions  

Groan...
Why do they get sloppy just when things are looking good!
"I believe. I believe. It's silly, but I believe." (Miracle on 34th Street)

by wjb1492 on Dec 14, 2007 9:45 PM CST reply actions  

Bucks, Pacers and Cavs all lost
Bulls better hang on - sort of like making up a game in the standings (except for the part where Detroit won, of course).
"I believe. I believe. It's silly, but I believe." (Miracle on 34th Street)

by wjb1492 on Dec 14, 2007 9:53 PM CST reply actions  

And Captain Kirk
gets the crowd their Big Macs tonight.
Please get this season turned around and play some great basketball.

by sue369 on Dec 14, 2007 9:56 PM CST reply actions  

I'm so glad he's playing well now!
Good to see him looking relaxed before the game, too.
"I believe. I believe. It's silly, but I believe." (Miracle on 34th Street)

by wjb1492 on Dec 14, 2007 10:03 PM CST up reply actions  

Me too.
I was worried about him for a while there. I didn't get to see any of the pregame stuff so I'll have to check it out when I rewatch the game.
Please get this season turned around and play some great basketball.

by sue369 on Dec 14, 2007 10:09 PM CST up reply actions  

I'm sure there's room for you on the bandwagon
"I believe. I believe. It's silly, but I believe." (Miracle on 34th Street)

by wjb1492 on Dec 14, 2007 10:36 PM CST up reply actions  

My favorite stat:
our 15 blocks to their 2.  and their 2 came from Balkman.

by Jaina on Dec 14, 2007 10:24 PM CST reply actions  

wow
WGN showed the Nocioni blocks on Curry.  Man, were those great.  

by KT on Dec 14, 2007 10:28 PM CST up reply actions  

Hell yeah
he had 5, and Hinrich, Wallace, and Noah each had 3.  The last one was courtesy of Deng.  Pretty awesome.

by Jaina on Dec 14, 2007 10:33 PM CST up reply actions  

Very nice win
Even if it's only over New-York Bricks.
Deng was strong to take it to the basket.
Hinrichs' first triple-double since 2004 raises
some hope.
Noah played very well.
And we can block shots!  

by Azabullsfan on Dec 15, 2007 12:04 AM CST reply actions  

Did you watch the game?
The Bulls are bad. I don't care if they won. Something is wrong with this team.

by RedKerrsWrapper47 on Dec 15, 2007 12:41 AM CST up reply actions  

We all know that
something is wrong with them.But win is a win with
some bright spots I mentioned above.

by Azabullsfan on Dec 15, 2007 12:54 AM CST reply actions  

Kirk
with the Jason Kidd like numbers. I would love Kirk to average about 15 points and anywhere from 8-10 assists. I think he just needs some confidence. Impressive night for Kirk i think he might have turned the corner, as for the rest of the team we will have to see.

by eross226 on Dec 15, 2007 1:21 AM CST reply actions  

Turn the corner?
I hate when people say that. Dude peeps this was the Knicks and the Bulls almost gave the game away. I mean the Knicks were letting the Bulls get anything so don't take anything from this game  and call it a positive.

by RedKerrsWrapper47 on Dec 15, 2007 3:58 AM CST up reply actions  

think eros was referring to...
...Kirk having maybe turned a corner (he's certainly seeming a little better the last several games than the first several), not the team overall. Agreed that the team overall still isn't back to being really good yet.

by T Maple on Dec 15, 2007 5:34 AM CST up reply actions  

bye joejoe
re-start your blog. I was reading it, anyway.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 15, 2007 10:58 AM CST up reply actions  

I hope he has...
even if it is just a confidence builder.  It obviously won't be as easy to post those numbers against better teams, but getting a taste of it can't hurt.  

by cranscape on Dec 15, 2007 9:26 AM CST up reply actions  

Why the bulls are bad
http://www.realgm.com/src_beyondthearc/106/20071213/calculating_scoring_efficiency/
We're the only team with two players on any one list. And it's not the good one.  

The term "star" has lost all meaning.

by Seth @ Blog a Bull on Dec 15, 2007 5:53 AM CST reply actions  

the article is about scoring efficiency
and he claims BG has,"... never been an above average shooter."  BG is a great shooter, he's an inefficient scorer.  How does the author blow the punchline by that much?
Nocioni-Khryapa in '08

by bullshooter on Dec 15, 2007 1:23 PM CST up reply actions  

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