Bulls outscored 97-73 by Pacers after first quarter (and lose, obviously)
I was taking some notes during that game, but they mysteriously get sparse in the 2nd half. Tough to pick on specifics when you're giving up 40 points in a quarter (73 in the second and third combined) to the Pacers.
And that's after a stellar first quarter for the Bulls, where soonafter they built up a 16 point lead in the first half.
Coincidentally (or not), the wheels fell off after the TyrusThomas-TroyMurphy scuffle, especially unfortunate considering Tyrus was having himself a nice night, with 4-6 shooting, 3 boards, no fouls or TOs in 9 minutes. He may get a suspension, but I don't know if the league truly defines 'punch' as the criteria for one, and if so, if they'd consider what Tyrus did a punch. I wouldn't be surprised either way on the ultimate decision.
Speaking of Tyrus, I'm not getting Skiles' stance of using only Noah or Tyrus in the rotation. For a few games it was Tyrus who was bumped, but it seems like Noah's now getting that treatment, and he was only in because Tyrus was ejected and it soon became lineup-boggle in the 2nd half. Kelly Dwyer mentioned today that Noah and Tyrus are never on the court together, and it's certainly strange. Instead we get Joe Smith (who had his 2nd straight nice game, 'predictable mediocrity' is served) starting, leaving for Tyrus, and then when Wallace comes out Smith's back in at center instead of Noah. Then the likely Skiles quote saying he shouldn't play Smith so much.
The Noah-aversion even got weird enough to where Aaron Gray came in for the final minute of the first half. He even chucked in a jump hook, likely causing many Bulls fans to subsequently change their underwear.
What makes such rotation decisions important is that there are going to be games like tonight where Ben Wallace is a corpse. He was lazy on defense (even failing to close out once because he was too busy whining to the ref...I almost could see 'Pistons' across his chest) and was not only missing shots (which I can handle), but making passes when he was wide open underneath the basket, which kills the entire offense. Just a complete waste.
Second game of a back-to-back, it's not that unexpected that Wallace would be so terrible. Skiles has to realize that and yank the guy when the signs are there. It didn't help that one of his other frontcourt options, Nocioni, was his usual roaming self on defense and managed no rebounds and 4TOs in 21 minutes. Noc is entitled to have a bad game, but man, it hurt, especially when Indiana spent most of the game bombing away and converting.
Meanwhile, Ben Gordon "carried over" his great game against Seattle through a whole quarter. Then he pretty much disappeared with 6 points the rest of the game. Like the rest of the team, in that first quarter the Bulls looked unstoppable. What occurred afterwards was the newest embarrassment of the season. That's why you shouldn't buy into 'momentum' between games. There's good games and bad, and so many bad games makes you a bad team.
They better beat the Knicks on Friday, and as a reminder: the day after that game is December 15th. Skiles shouldn't feel so damned safe either.
0 recs |
115
comments
Comments
I hope Tyrus doesn't get suspended.
Tyrus was just starting to establish some modicum of rhythm on the court.
by 1958ChiTown on Dec 12, 2007 9:56 PM CST 0 recs
That's exactly my reaction
by Jaina on
Dec 12, 2007 10:40 PM CST
up
0 recs
hope?
1) an integral part of the team
or
2) essential to winning games.
by chicago-homesick-blues on
Dec 13, 2007 10:32 AM CST
up
0 recs
4-6 last night
by Jaina on
Dec 13, 2007 11:43 AM CST
up
0 recs
seems
by tyrus4prez on
Dec 13, 2007 12:53 PM CST
up
0 recs
According to the game flow
by bullshooter on
Dec 13, 2007 1:10 PM CST
up
0 recs
I dont really
by tyrus4prez on
Dec 13, 2007 1:34 PM CST
up
0 recs
If Tyrus gets suspended it will be
by philosoball on Dec 12, 2007 10:32 PM CST 0 recs
or another example
What a crappy game. Pax should consider canning Skiles by sundown on Thursday. I'm sure the Skiles clan will be over it by the 25th, and someone else will get a job under the holiday plant. Win-win.
by hscs on
Dec 12, 2007 10:42 PM CST
up
0 recs
Not to slice it too thin, but this wasn't
by philosoball on
Dec 12, 2007 10:44 PM CST
up
0 recs
they never are "fights"
by hscs on
Dec 13, 2007 12:24 AM CST
up
0 recs
that wasn't much of a fight either
by bullshooter on
Dec 13, 2007 9:12 AM CST
up
0 recs
True, actually, players don't seem to land punches
Norm Van Lier's take on it was kind of interesting. He said that it was good for Tyrus to push back, to let the league know that he wasn't to be messed with; if he hadn't, then teams would start to target Tyrus as a guy whose head you could mess with. On the other hand, he now looks like a guy you can bait into taking a swing (even if open-handed).
By the way, where was the Bulls' "enforcer" Ben the Body Wallace during this fracas? Or this whole game for that matter? Not to say his age is showing, but he's crusty and creaking something awful.
Pathetic that the Bulls crawled into a shell like a shy little turtle at signs of actual conflict. Message to Bulls other than Tyrus: all of you get together and collectively grow a pair.
by bullhockey on
Dec 13, 2007 12:35 PM CST
up
0 recs
Norm is crazy.
We had this type of discussion last year during the 3rd or 4th Posey fiasco, and I remember it being a low point in this blog's history.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
Dec 13, 2007 12:40 PM CST
up
0 recs
In most contact sports, a little shoving
In sports they usually say, the guy who responds is the one who gets caught. But in this case the league has the opportunity to punish the instigator which is really what they should do if they want to stop all the extra-curriculars.
by philosoball on
Dec 13, 2007 12:55 PM CST
up
0 recs
I agree
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
Dec 13, 2007 12:59 PM CST
up
0 recs
This business about the instigators
by alec on
Dec 14, 2007 1:21 PM CST
up
0 recs
really? (or: huh?)
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
Dec 14, 2007 1:28 PM CST
up
0 recs
In team contact sports
By the same token, retaliation is also constantly occurring--tit for tat all game long. Sometimes (probably often) the retaliation isn't even linked to a play in the current game...or even season...or even pitting the particular players involved in the initial incident. Certainly, the model in hockey is that there are designated `retaliator/instigators,' goons that fight out the proxy battles for all the other players.
The NBA's a little different. Fighting is so frowned upon that goon-play has been forced, as it were, underground, into the interpretive world of courtside video and the commissioner's office. Every square inch of the court is covered by two or three camera angles. I have no doubt that the Bruce Bowens of the league spend hundreds of hours perfecting their `accidentally on purpose' trips, undercuts and flying elbows. Their actions must withstand the slow-motion replay scrutiny of game officials, and be adjudged to fall on the `accidental' side of the ledger.
To return to the incident in question, what would have happened if Tyrus had just gotten up and stuck his chin in Murphy's face, daring him to punch it? In my opinion, had Tyrus done that, he would have solidly and unequivocally won that confrontation. He would have shown both toughness and restraint. He would also have let Murphy--and every other coach and player in the league--know that he was smart and self-controlled enough not to get drawn into an emotional encounter.
Also, you can bet that for the rest of the game, maybe for the rest of the season, Murphy would be looking over his shoulder for when Tyrus would exact his retribution.
So, to clarify my initial post, what I'd say is that I'm all for retaliation in the moment getting more severely punished than the apparent instigation. I still say that the bigger issue is the escalation of the incident into an all-out brawl. That is what the NBA is seeking to avert at all costs.
by alec on
Dec 14, 2007 5:25 PM CST
up
0 recs
I pretty much agree that in contact sports
That's where the league can make clear that instigating , in this case Murphy's initial push, should be punished more harshly than Thomas' almost neccesary retaliation. It is simply not fair to Thomas that he was shoved to the ground, then pushed and finally given an equal punishment to the guy who clearly initiated the whole incident.
If the concern of a bench clearing brawl is so serious that currnet rules don't suffice, then the solution would seem to be punishing the root causes of melee's which are the "dirty" plays that go largely under-punished in the league, not the guys who feel they have to retaliate to save their dignity and their health since the league clearly won't protect them.
by philosoball on
Dec 14, 2007 5:46 PM CST
up
0 recs
Actually I just saw that Tyrus was
by philosoball on
Dec 14, 2007 6:13 PM CST
up
0 recs
I think, philo, that this
by alec on
Dec 14, 2007 7:04 PM CST
up
0 recs
I don't think Tyrus was suspended
by philosoball on
Dec 14, 2007 7:10 PM CST
up
0 recs
The problem with your theory
That means overall a "thuggish" player (Posey) can continually go after the other teams players and either bait them into retaliating or otherwise make them look soft. When we see guys like Posey get away with this stuff it leads to the conclusion that the only way to stop it is by increasing the penalties for instigators.
by philosoball on
Dec 14, 2007 2:50 PM CST
up
0 recs
Yes, it does put the burden in the hands of
by alec on
Dec 14, 2007 4:16 PM CST
up
0 recs
Then you will have to accept a certain
by philosoball on
Dec 14, 2007 4:43 PM CST
up
0 recs
Here is where
by sue369 on
Dec 13, 2007 7:59 PM CST
up
0 recs
Troy Murphy
Hes jealous that Tyrus was playing better than him.
by AngryAsianAce on
Dec 13, 2007 8:11 PM CST
up
0 recs
Was this AFTER Murphy got punched in the nose?
by tyger1147 on
Dec 14, 2007 1:01 PM CST
up
0 recs
Yes. This picture is after the clinch
by alec on
Dec 14, 2007 1:16 PM CST
up
0 recs
Skiles needs to go
There's hope Pax can pull off magic and get an actual upgrade, not just someone different to 'change things up'. If that's the only goal then the coach should go first.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
Dec 12, 2007 11:33 PM CST
up
0 recs
that's the doomsday scenario
by hscs on
Dec 13, 2007 9:58 AM CST
up
0 recs
ya know who I'm thinking about?
Contract-wise, he's likely to opt out, but so is Brand so I'm not sure they'd want to spend enough to keep them both anyway.
So if they're resigned to losing him, can they be content with expiring deals? Give 'em Duh and Veektor and the 'prospect' can be Sefolosha.
If they're not shy about the years (5 years!) on Nocioni's deal, him and Maggette are sortof redundant, so I'd try and start with him. Trade Machine won't activate until the 15th, so I'm not entirely sure how the BYC works unless I figure it out the old-fashioned way.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
Dec 13, 2007 1:17 PM CST
up
0 recs
he's so gosh darn fragile
I have read Clipper fan complaints regarding his shot selection, and defense. He probably isn't a Skiles guy.
by hscs on
Dec 13, 2007 1:58 PM CST
up
0 recs
we need some crappy shot selection
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
Dec 13, 2007 2:17 PM CST
up
0 recs
yep
A low-percentage shot beats an offensive foul or passing the ball six times until it ends up getting stolen.
by Bayern Munich on
Dec 13, 2007 2:37 PM CST
up
0 recs
I suppose
Since we're already in next year mode (does Ben Wallace qualify for the Finley/Houston buyout thingy?), notable players with an ETO are:
J.O.
Maggette
Brand
Artest
Marbury (ha!)
Arenas
Marion
Iverson
unrestricted:
Pietrus
Bonzi
Jamison
by hscs on
Dec 13, 2007 2:42 PM CST
up
0 recs
maybe a dumb question
Man, I would love to see Jermaino on the Bulls.
by Bayern Munich on
Dec 13, 2007 2:49 PM CST
up
0 recs
quoteth Sham
by hscs on
Dec 13, 2007 2:52 PM CST
up
0 recs
don't know if you're being facetious
The Bulls are capped out with Deng and Gordon's 'cap hold' this offseason. They won't be players in the free-agent market, unless they trade with one of those guys being signed/traded.
I'm not even sure I'd want Maggette beyond this year (unless he was great). Unless the Bulls were able to pawn of Noc's contract, of course...or deal Deng in a huge sign/trade.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
Dec 13, 2007 3:01 PM CST
up
0 recs
I didn't understand the Houston Rule, thanks
by hscs on
Dec 13, 2007 3:07 PM CST
up
0 recs
wait ...
I understand the Houston rule, but as far as "holds" - does that mean a Restricted FA's putative/possible salary counts against the cap even before a team re-signs him?
In other words, the Bulls could end up with no room in Free Agency (because of a "hold" for Gordon) and then still lose Gordon to another team in free agency?
by Bayern Munich on
Dec 13, 2007 3:27 PM CST
up
0 recs
well Gordon's restricted
But for all free agents, unless the Bulls renounce the rights to that player, they get assigned a cap hold that's at least some raise (for restricted FAs it's the qualifying offer)
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
Dec 13, 2007 3:40 PM CST
up
0 recs
OK, thanks
So, the Bulls COULD (if they decided to go in an entirely different direction) renounce rights to Gordon and Deng, and let the Un-restricteds walk (Duhon, VK, etc.) and then get in on the Jermaino / Jamison bidding wars?
Not saying they will, but that's possible?
by Bayern Munich on
Dec 13, 2007 3:48 PM CST
up
0 recs
and what wars they will be
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
Dec 13, 2007 3:52 PM CST
up
0 recs
Cap holds
Not saying this is what they should or shouldn't do, but it'd seem to be an option if it leaves us with still a nice set of younger players and significant cap room.
Figuring out how to pull that off seems like a pretty significant problem in itself. There are only so many expiring contracts that could come back for Wallace in the first place, never mind the fact we'd probably have to throw something else in to get him.
by Sports2 on
Dec 13, 2007 9:36 PM CST
up
0 recs
cap room
Gordon and Deng should do better in sign and trade scenarios than cap room too. It'd be a massive waste of value.
by hscs on
Dec 13, 2007 9:51 PM CST
up
0 recs
There are free agents
other than Lebron. I think Jermaine O'Neal or Jamison would fit in very nicely in Chicago.
The problem isn't a lack of free agents, it's the fact that the Wallace contract is a millstone. I can't see anyone taking it on in exchange for an expiring contract, especially because that same expiring contract would be so valuable in some other trade with some other team.
Gordon is different, because he's still young and brings some good scoring to the table. I could see the Bulls trading him for an expiring deal to clear up cap space, but only if the season really falls into the tank. But who knows.
by Bayern Munich on
Dec 14, 2007 8:53 AM CST
up
0 recs
Free agents vs. trades
O'Neil makes about what Wallace + Gordon will make next year put together. I can't see the Bulls shelling out for him, and as long as we're talking about reality here (the Bulls minding the tax), I don't think a guy like him is an option.
On the other hand, a guy like Brand might be worth taking a shot at. He probably won't opt out of his deal coming off the Achilles injury, and you'd think their teams might at least consider taking Wallace + Gordon or some other young player rather than locking themselves into another 6 years of Brand that didnt reall get them anywhere.
by Sports2 on
Dec 14, 2007 12:59 PM CST
up
0 recs
Bulls aren't going to be after free agents
Also, Jermaine O'Neal isn't going to opt-out.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
Dec 14, 2007 1:09 PM CST
up
0 recs
Under this regime,
I just don't believe that Jermaine O'Neal fits.
There's no question he has talent, but he's become something of a headcase over the past few years, and his games missed-vs.-games played is spotty at best.
I don't think the Bulls would want a guy like that, and even if they did, he would not want to play for a Bulls with a culture of gym rats who try hard day in and day out.
by bullhockey on
Dec 14, 2007 4:42 PM CST
up
0 recs
in related news
Not that I want him on the team, but pointing out that the clips now have an extra roster spot.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
Dec 13, 2007 3:42 PM CST
up
0 recs
A dual use waiving
Clips are working with a short roster already. I could learn to like Corey Maggette in a Bulls uni.
by NBA Observer on
Dec 14, 2007 10:42 AM CST
up
0 recs
Mattt...you busted on Gordon
by GoldenThreePeat on Dec 12, 2007 10:47 PM CST 0 recs
One guy at a time
Seriously though, BG 6-11 in the first quarter. That's something to be excited about. Hell, that's a good game for Kirk. But 1-10 the rest of the way. That's unacceptable. The bulls still managed to get 102, which is surprising.
by bullshooter on
Dec 12, 2007 10:54 PM CST
up
0 recs
Err
he played 28:02
was 4-6 from the field
was 0-1 from 3 point range
was 3-3 from free throw line
had only 1 rebound though
8 dimes
4 personal fouls (which sat him out half the 3rd)
1
steal
and a big ol ZERO turnovers
thats 11 and 8 assists, sure its not an amazing stat line, but its far better than deng or gordon.
I believe only tyrus and Smith had a better stat line.
I had two knocks on hinrich the whole game, the 4th foul, and not taking more shots especially in the 4th.
by piccolomair on
Dec 13, 2007 2:22 AM CST
up
0 recs
Orlando got blown out by the Bucks.
by philosoball on Dec 12, 2007 10:50 PM CST 0 recs
I'm sorry Matt...
by GoldenThreePeat on Dec 12, 2007 10:53 PM CST 0 recs
How many times
by bullshooter on
Dec 12, 2007 10:55 PM CST
up
0 recs
Seeing how difficult it is
Gordon can be explosive, but until he gets his shot back, the Bulls will struggle to win along with him.
by RogersPark Kris on Dec 12, 2007 11:07 PM CST 0 recs
BG vs other scorers
by Sambossanova on
Dec 12, 2007 11:19 PM CST
up
0 recs
Other scorers
by hlac on
Dec 12, 2007 11:28 PM CST
up
0 recs
you're worse
As a side note, I DO agree with your point that when Gordon is off, it seems like the scoring just goes right out the window and the rest of the team struggles...but that still doesn't excuse you from naming this imaginary "more consistent" player.
by ScottieCartwright on
Dec 13, 2007 8:12 AM CST
up
0 recs
I'm working on this
by bullshooter on
Dec 13, 2007 9:14 AM CST
up
0 recs
It wouldn't be that hard
by RogersPark Kris on
Dec 13, 2007 9:30 AM CST
up
0 recs
heh
by ScottieCartwright on
Dec 13, 2007 10:23 AM CST
up
0 recs
Joe Johnson, Michael Redd,
by RogersPark Kris on
Dec 13, 2007 10:34 AM CST
up
0 recs
your point was
by ScottieCartwright on
Dec 13, 2007 11:27 AM CST
up
0 recs


