More 'big-picture' pessimistic mumblings

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 10, 2007 12:46 AM CST in News

I have little to say about Saturday's game against the Celtics, as I didn't see it. And although it was taped and ready the next day, after reading about yet another game of just 'missing shots', I was decidedly not into that kind of masochism.

But just looking over the comments, recaps, and stats, one thing that's obvious is yet another poor game from Ben Gordon. He's the slow starter, usually, but players of his caliber (or what he believes is his caliber) shouldn't have that built-in excuse. Hinrich's even-worse start has made it a little easier for Gordon's lack of production to be ignored, but on a game where he's repeatedly torched by Rajon Rondo while going 0-fer in the 2nd half it bring his struggles back to the forefront. It's hardly a surprise this team remains the worst offensive team in the league when their best scorer isn't.

So while that's a big problem, on to an independent, yet also damaging one: Tyrus' disappearing minutes. It can be said that the Bulls are on a bit of a roll, winning more and staying closer in losses to the elite teams like Dallas and Boston. But as I said after the Detroit game, it's just a return to the usual, and this team was supposed to be creeping towards elite, not conceding when against it. They need to show improvement, and since little was done this past offseason, the implied message was that the Bulls '06 draft class of Thomas and Sefolosha would play bigger roles.

But instead both Thomas and Sefolosha are nearly out of the rotation. Either Skiles is messing up by not playing them, or Paxson messed up by drafting them. They're two lottery picks on a team that begs for athleticism, and they can't get on the floor. And even if they're trade bait, a trade now at this low of a value is an admitted mistake from Paxson, and a crippling blow for his resume.

On the topic of this being the same old team, I thought this post from Red Kerr on the WGN blog (no idea how it gets from Red's head to the web) was unintentionally illuminating:

The energy, hustle and toughness [Nocioni] brings into the game always seems to come at the right time. Nocioni scored five in an 11-0 run that pulled the Bulls within 86-81 with 57.9 seconds remaining.

Isn't that so Bulls? The 'right time' is bringing a 16 point deficit to 5 in the fourth quarter.

I always pick on Nocioni, which is admittedly silly as he continues to be their best player this season. But I don't because I think he's the problem, it's because when Nocioni's the MVP of a team, it's unsurprising that the team is 6-12. So why be excited about him getting heavy minutes and taking tons of shots?

I had much higher hopes for this team, and I assume Paxson did too. But if his recent draft picks are truly busting, that's his job. Yet I'm thinking from Pax's perspective it's Skiles' job to get them on the floor, so eventually non-blowout losses aren't considered improvement anymore.

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I watched the whole game and it's pretty clear

the Bulls could have won by ten had they made their WIDE open shots. That tells me this team mentally gets rattled. What bothers me even more is this teams lack of intelligence on both ends. My questions are many.

How many times do you have to watch Rondo burn Ben Gordon?

Where is a Double in the post on KG?

Why do you let the game slip away with BG,Wallace and Smith killing you? Very slow help side D. Ben Wallace.

Why can't Noah play along side Thomas?

When your outside shots don't fall why aren't they driving to the basket?

Why isn't Deng the first option in the post?

Why is Ben Wallace the first?

This team has the talent to be the best in the East but mentally they just don't seem to really know how to adjust or play with killer instinct during big games.

Their are so many things with this team that you could point out. They do need to make a move and either bring in a post man or a slashing 2 who can get you easy buckets during shooting droughts. The Bulls need a player like Richard Jefferson who can play the passing lanes and get driving baskets. Something has to be done because this team is stock piled with talent that doesn't really fit together well.

I would imagine if things continue like this then it might be time to see what you can get for Ben Gordon because there really are too many jump shooters and sooner or later your going to need people to take the ball to the rim more. Skiles needs to play Tyrus more and I know he hasn't really played well but he would have help with KG or to get those put backs off of missed shots.

Boston doesn't really scare me come playoffs because they really don't have any bench. Ray Allen and PP are good but they clearly are not the players they Used to be. Rondo and KG were the key to last nights game. Really I wasn't impressed with the Celtics.

by Johnnysharp on Dec 10, 2007 3:28 AM CST 0 recs

lack of intelligence

one more question to add to your list:

why in the world would Nocioni feel the need to double House?!

Does anyone on the team even look at the scouting report?

by ScottieCartwright on Dec 10, 2007 8:15 AM CST up 0 recs

maybe they're reading the

college scouting reports...where House was one of the leading scorers in the nation. That might also explain their defensive tactics on KG--his name wouldn't even be on the report! How could they be expected to anything about his game?

Ita est, ergo ita sit.

by alec on Dec 10, 2007 9:32 AM CST up 0 recs

Beating the Pistons the night before

Then losing to the Celtics isn't the worst thing in the world.

At least the Bulls are playing better. I just wish Skiles showed more guts and played Noah and TT more.

What can it hurt?? Either way, if you have Ben or Noah guarding KG down low they will need help.

Over all, I thought Skiles got out coached with the KG match up and the Ben Gordon-Rajon Rondo fiasco which put the Bulls in a hole.

Right now, the only two Bulls lagging behind in the "still recovering from the off season slump" fiasco is Gordon and Skiles.

by RogersPark Kris on Dec 10, 2007 9:52 AM CST up 0 recs

I wish you guys would actually watch

when you are "watching the game"... Every time they double KG he passed out immediately and got somebody an open look at a three. Ray Allen is pretty good at hitting those. If you watched you'd know at least his first three buckets were 3's, and maybe 4. Maybe play a zone, but I don't think that would change much. The bulls lost because they didn't hit their shots.

Nocioni-Khryapa in '08

by bullshooter on Dec 10, 2007 10:57 AM CST up 0 recs

Thank You

Someone noticed that. I think most of the bulls stupidity happens when someone tries to do something on his own. For instance that third quarter where ben gordon twice threw up quick shots, which eventually resulted in the celtics scoring on the other end. The jumpshots not falling, although is spread out through the team, is also an individual flaw. Nocioni floating defense is yet another personal nocioni flaw.

As for Ben Wallace, i dont think he is intentionally the first option in the post, and i dont its so simple to let deng be the first option in the post. With the starting lineup the way it is, Joe smith is the first option in the post, deng is the second (the only reason he is not, is because teams guard him the hardest) and ben wallace is the optional third. Usually the ball is dumped to wallace, and depending on how much time is left wallace does what he needs too. If he has a man open wallace does pass the ball out, but if not, and time is winding down, he tries to do something with it.

As for skiles...he didnt play TT, Big Whoop! I still dont believe having ty would have done much for the game. Anything big TT did, i am postive Kg would have reacted in kind.

Also, the timberwolves beat us last year, that is, kg beat us last year, when we were better, and when he didnt have ray allen, paul pierce, or (cough) rondo. So though another loss is another nail in the coffin, at least we kept those celtics at bay.

The knicks beat us, and the celtics destroyed the knicks, so we should be happy that at least we arent as bad as the knicks.

Of course, those jump shots gotta fall sometime...

im trying hard to become the next kirk hinrich, therefore im doing nothing more than being the next chris duhon.

by piccolomair on Dec 10, 2007 11:52 AM CST up 0 recs

Thats funny because Ray Allen was missing alot of

3's late in the ball game.

by Johnnysharp on Dec 10, 2007 1:50 PM CST up 0 recs

Yeah but they also lost because on D they

were slow to rotate and didn't stop Rondo's retarded nat spaz play at point. I think pulling Sefolosha/ Hinrich on Rondo would have made it harder for him to spaz all over.

by Johnnysharp on Dec 10, 2007 1:53 PM CST up 0 recs

Ryne Sandberg sucked in April

As most Cubs fans know, April always meant Ryno was terrible. Not saying that Ben Gordon will be in the HOF, or even in an All Star game for that matter, but just wanted to point out great players can start slow every year. I've never been the biggest Gordon fan, but I know what his shooting means to this team. It'll make a huge difference when he turns it around. The sooner the better.

BTW, has anyone else noticed that Gordon has been bringing the ball up the court much more frequently over the last several games? I always seemed to remember him deferring to Hinrich.

by snley on Dec 10, 2007 8:40 AM CST 0 recs

can anyone

find stats for BG's first 20 games over the past few seasons?

I'd like to see the numbers for games 1-20, compared to games 21-40 and see how they stack up. Not sure if this is kept anywhere, if so, maybe someone can find it

by ScottieCartwright on Dec 10, 2007 8:58 AM CST up 0 recs

What I could throw together

2005-2006
GAMES    MIN     FGM     FGA     FTM     FTA     3PM     3PA     OREB     DREB     TOT     AST     STL     TO     BLK     PF     PTS
1-20    27.25    5.05    12.85    1.85    2.6    2.05    4.7    0.5    1.6    2.1    2.45    0.85    2.2    0    2.65    14
21-40    30    6.25    14.95    1.95    2.35    1.4    3.9    0.3    2.15    2.45    3    0.75    2.1    0.05    3.15    15.85

Looking for a good source of data for 2006-2007.

by NBA Observer on Dec 10, 2007 9:53 AM CST up 0 recs

just doing some quick math

in my head, that would have Gordon averaging around 28 ppg for the second half of the season last year.

Ita est, ergo ita sit.

by alec on Dec 10, 2007 10:00 AM CST up 0 recs

he didn't start the first half

last year either.

Nocioni-Khryapa in '08

by bullshooter on Dec 10, 2007 10:59 AM CST up 0 recs

I would think that of all the players

on the team, BG has got to be feeling the most pressure. He's got to be wondering every time he comes to the game if this will be the one he gets demoted. I will cost him millions and millions if he gets dropped from the starting line-up.

By the same token, you can almost hear the other GMs around the league hoping and praying it happens. It would make BG the perfect object lesson for players on the brink of stardom, to settle for a lower offer in their first year of eligibility. "Look, kid, be smart, like Hinrich, and take the money now. You never know what next year's gonna bring."

Ita est, ergo ita sit.

by alec on Dec 10, 2007 11:11 AM CST up 0 recs

also

There is a direct correlation between Ben's point production and his free throw attempts. You're right, his ppg goes way up in the next 40 games, but his free throw attempts and makes also increase.

by NBA Observer on Dec 10, 2007 11:27 AM CST up 0 recs

I think the

only reason BG is bringing the ball up the court is because he doesn't want to give it up. I crnige every time he does that.

Please get this season turned around and play some great basketball.

by sue369 on Dec 10, 2007 9:25 AM CST up 0 recs

Breakdown

Chicago had outrebounded their opponets in the previous 6 games. With poor shooting they have to outrebound opponents to have a chance at W.

Look at the numbers. Chicago put up 22 more shots than Boston. 22!!! Again, when you know you are shooting poorly and you need to get to the free throw line you would hope that 22 more fg attempts should produce trips to the line. However, Chicago and Boston both had 22 FT attempts.

Chicago contained the Big 3 as best as you can allowing only Ray Allen to breach the 20 point barrier and he need 10 three point attempts to get there. Down the stretch KG hit the big shots when Boston needed them.

As usual, if Ben Gordon isn't making shots then why is he on the court? He's not going to stop anyone on defense. He might step into a passing lane and get a hand on the ball or a steal, but he's not stopping any dribble penetration to the rim.

I really attribute the loss to ceding the rebounding advantage to Glen Davis. He picked up 12 boards in 26 minutes. We only had 9 turnovers so the rebounding picture was the only difference where we recessed versus previous games.

Is it fair to attribute the rebouding loss to fatigue? No. Boston played Friday night too. Sure it was at home and they blew out the Raptors, but their flight to Chicago was worse than Chicago's trip home from Detroit.

by NBA Observer on Dec 10, 2007 8:57 AM CST 0 recs

Snookered

All these years I was told by experts that:

Doc Rivers couldn't coach.
Ray Allen couldn't play defense.
The Bull's core could...(pick one of several assertions).

I wonder where "Big Baby" was on Pax' evaluation list? Did he fall lower than Pax expected? If so maybe we could get him for a couple of future second round picks.

by hlac on Dec 10, 2007 9:31 AM CST 0 recs

they probably had Mike Sweetney nightmares

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 10, 2007 9:34 AM CST up 0 recs

if anything

the success of the Celtics is a perfect example of coaches not making much of an impact, and being totally replaceable.

Officially a hater on Ballhype!

by hscs on Dec 10, 2007 9:39 AM CST up 0 recs

Does Doc Rivers even coach this team?

He calls for subsitutions. What else does he do that makes an impact on the game?

I think the real credit here is due to Danny Ainge pulling of some amazing trades and signing a perimeter defender like James Posey.

The real coach of this team is KG. He's the player directing traffic on defense. He's the one barking out signals. He's the one putting pressure on his teammates to execute on defense.

by NBA Observer on Dec 10, 2007 9:56 AM CST up 0 recs

Recognizing who your players are

and letting them play to their strengths, I would submit, is a form of coaching. For example, this Celtics team might not fare so well under a highly structured coach like VanG, or Larry Brown...or Skiles, for that matter. Doc seems like a good match for that team. He got them in good physiical shape in camp (I remember reading somewhere his practices have a much bigger than average cardio component), then he lets their experience lead the way in games.

Ita est, ergo ita sit.

by alec on Dec 10, 2007 10:10 AM CST up 0 recs

In line with your remarks, Matt,

this is from Mike McGraw in today's Daily Herald:

"It doesn't say much for the Bulls' future that they used the No. 2 pick in the 2006 draft on Thomas and Viktor Khryapa and neither player can get on the court for a 6-12 team."

Ita est, ergo ita sit.

by alec on Dec 10, 2007 10:20 AM CST 0 recs

Nocioni being our best player

Means he might be huge trade bait by next week or Skiles insisting they have to have him on the floor as much as possible . . . meaning they probably don't even wanna think about trading him now.

by Option27 on Dec 10, 2007 10:22 AM CST 0 recs

What makes someone 'trade bait'

is the same quality that makes any stock or commodity or even real estate 'trade bait'--and this is that they are temporarily trading above their perceived market value, or, in the case of a player, that he is temporarily outperforming their contract.

The key concept is 'temporarily.' And I think the question can legitimately be asked of Nocioni whether what we're currently seeing from him is temporary, an aberration, or if it's simply the level of play his contract would suggest. I think it's the latter. I think it's the contrast to how horribly the rest of the team is performing that makes it look like Noc is outperforming his contract. To me, it looks like he's perfectly fulfilling his expected role on the team--an energy guy off the bench, who can get you some quick offense if you need it, or harass and disrupt the offensive flow of the opponent. His role is as a stop-gap player, and that's what he's doing.

Ita est, ergo ita sit.

by alec on Dec 10, 2007 10:53 AM CST up 0 recs

in a way

Nocioni's contract was made to be trade-friendly, with the high first-year salary that got lower each season.

Almost makes up for the fact that it's a 5-year deal. I still can't see a team that's trading a good player (and therefore likely rebuilding) wanting someone who isn't particularly young and signed for 5 years.

to get to your point, I think Nocioni's living up to his contract, although I think that's as good as it'll get, so he's therefore at his highest value. If the other guys get better he won't get as high of per-game stats, which I think front offices still look at. That, along with the fire and the passion.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 10, 2007 11:26 AM CST up 0 recs

Noc

18 points in 23 minutes on Saturday against the best defensive team in the NBA while shooting 1-7 from 3pt territory. Noc can be an All Star if he shoots more from 22 feet in and goes to the rim more often. He posted Ray Allen, Paul Pierce, and James Posey. More of this please.

I'll check play by play logs, but his 4 fouls are likely what limited his playing time.

by NBA Observer on Dec 10, 2007 11:31 AM CST up 0 recs

The same thing that makes his contract

`trade-friendly' also makes it worth keeping. I agree that Noc is the perfect player to add to a mix of mostly younger players to get them to fully comprehend the intensity level required to be successful in the NBA.

But this is precisely the role he fills on the Bulls. I don't know that I'm ready to trade away the one guy who is really doing his job. Last year I felt differently. Every one was playing better and Noc seemed like a luxury chit we could afford to cash in.

Maybe the key player we need to see take another little step up in order to make Noc expendable is Noah. He might be able to fill some of the team gaps (though I doubt the scoring gap) that trading Noc would create.

Ita est, ergo ita sit.

by alec on Dec 10, 2007 11:52 AM CST up 0 recs

ah, but

If a team's talented enough, then they don't need intensity every night to win. That's the sign of a great team, and I look forward to a day when every loss is followed by 'we didn't have the energy'.

Also, they'd be trading Noc for somebody better, in theory. It wouldn't be dumping him to free up minutes.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 10, 2007 12:54 PM CST up 0 recs

You bring yup a good question.

The team that trades for Noc--what would they be looking to accomplish in the deal?

If I read you correctly, you're saying that the Bulls, as presently constituted, shouldn't need Noc, and the fact that they seem to need him so much right now is an aberration. As soon as the rest of the players pullout of this collective temporary glitch, the player we get in return for Noc will play a more important role for us than the role the future Noc would be filling for us.

I will admit, that by almost any measures, Noc looks pretty good right now. I even agree with you that by dint of comparison, he looks better than he actually is. Still...I don't know if I'd go quite so far as to say that as a general rule `energy players aren't required on championship-contending teams.' I think of Bowen on the Spurs, Rodman on both the Bulls and Pistons, Rambis on the old Lakers (well, maybe not that old to some of us). There are probably others. My point is that if we do get rid of Noc, which does make some sense as a pure trade valuation play, I still believe we'll need to find a way to replace the sense of urgency, energy, drama, intensity, whatever you want to call it, that he currently provides for us.

As I said earlier, maybe that player is already on the team--Noah.

But back to my first question: What would you want in return for Noc, and what would the team getting him be likely to move?

Ita est, ergo ita sit.

by alec on Dec 10, 2007 2:00 PM CST up 0 recs

(those were 'paraphrase' quotes,

not 'quote' quotes. They may even be 'putting words in your mouth' quotes, which I don't intend them to be.)

Ita est, ergo ita sit.

by alec on Dec 10, 2007 2:04 PM CST up 0 recs

Other guys with "energy"

Tony Parker, Manu Ginobili, Brent Barry, Scottie Pippen, Michael Jordan, Magic Johnson...

Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Dec 10, 2007 2:25 PM CST up 0 recs

heh, one of these names

is not like the other.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 10, 2007 2:26 PM CST up 0 recs

Is it

Brent Barry?
(seriously i want to know)

im trying hard to become the next kirk hinrich, therefore im doing nothing more than being the next chris duhon.

by piccolomair on Dec 10, 2007 4:03 PM CST up 0 recs

Noc could fit a rebuilding team too

Some GM could say 'our young guys could learn from the energy/intensity/hair or Nocioni', and make their young team more respectable.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 10, 2007 4:16 PM CST up 0 recs

Trade Noc to a rebuilding team

for I'm assuming a 1st/2nd year lottery pick who so far is underperforming expectations. I wonder...who does that sound like? Hey! We could have two TTs on the roster. I know you in particular, Matt, would love that. Seriously, though, what does a legitimate Noc proposal look like?--for the Bulls as well as for whoever wants to be their trading partner.

Ita est, ergo ita sit.

by alec on Dec 10, 2007 8:37 PM CST up 0 recs

you assume wrong

why would a rebuilding team deal a young cheap player?

Dealing Noc (and other chips) for a player better than Noc. The loss of that better player makes the team recieving Noc the 'rebuilding' one.

I have no interest in another draft pick.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 10, 2007 8:57 PM CST up 0 recs

TT

Let's be honest: Kirk, Deng, Gordon, Wallace, Noce and Joe Smith are not enough to win the Championship, the East or even a playoff series (let alone getting to the playoffs). Barring any trades, the only way the Bulls improve over last year is for Tyrus, Thabo and Noah to give the team meaningful minutes. Skiles has to find ways to get these guys in the game to see what they can contribute. He's been doing a nice job with Noah recently, but banishing Tyrus to Sweetneyland is a huge disservice to the team. Some posters on this site have said that Tyrus has regressed from last season, but I do not see that at all. Tyrus looks like a second year player who gets inconsistent minutes. He is a kid who needs some confidence and time on the floor. DNP-CDs and garbage minutes are not the keys to developing young talent in the NBA.

by Stay Chisel on Dec 10, 2007 11:22 AM CST 0 recs

Let him watch

He can watch what Joakim Noah does and learn the best ways to use his talents to contribute. Get active. Get in position. Find your space on offense. BLOCK OUT. RUN THE FLOOR.

I challenged the early comments that T2 wasn't hustling. I was wrong. He wasn't leading the break. He was slow getting back. He was lost on offense.

Nothing wrong with Tyrus learning from Noah.

by NBA Observer on Dec 10, 2007 11:34 AM CST up 0 recs

Noah and Thomas

It is interesting to watch the contrast between those two guys when it comes to running the floor. Noah is a hustle machine. There have been a few times over the last several games where Noah led the break, beat everyone down court, and was rewarded with an easy dunk.

It puts into sharp relief the criticism leveled against Thomas by Skiles.

"A.B.C. Always be closing. ALWAYS BE CLOSING!" -Glengarry Glenross

by preverbal on Dec 10, 2007 1:40 PM CST up 0 recs

Yeah I noticed his all out husslle

on every play. It's just in his DNA he never really quits on any play and I have noticed times where he has battled 3 other guys for rebounds and helped keep the possesion alive while other Bulls would just give up and jog back to play D.

Really if they continue to play bad or inconsistant you really have to look at making a choice on who stays and who goes because right now it's really a team loaded with talent and just doesn't have an direction on offense.

Personally I have been watching this team get knocked out of the playoffs for years so I really think they should make some changes with the coach and the players.

by Johnnysharp on Dec 10, 2007 2:06 PM CST up 0 recs

I watched that play 10 times

I just kept replaying it over and over. Noah didn't explode out onto the break. He just saw Duhon dribbling and took off down the floor. Noah did exactly what you teach young players. Once you see your team possess the basketball, hustle to the other end.

Noah does some thing on defense that actually are better than Thomas. Noah doesn't have a lot of springs, but he uses his arms and hands well extending them high to create a tougher shot angle. He doesn't elevate very high, but in contrast to Thomas he's not losing a lot of time that it take Thomas to elevate, land, and then get up again. Noah's not buying the shot fakes. He just holds his position with his hands extended high.

by NBA Observer on Dec 10, 2007 2:11 PM CST up 0 recs

Can anyone argue

that this team reaches the "elite" level without major contributions (mins) from TT, Noah, and even Thabo? I sure hope this "let TT watch how to run the court from the bench" strategy works, and soon because I'm about to give up!

Noc with 23-26 mins is good. That's where he'll give max production. Wallace needs to do similarly with less mins, not more! I realize Smith needs to play more against KG, but this would be the about only situation.

Why does playing Noah mean not playing TT? For the first few games, consensus was Tyrus was the Bulls best player. Now he's to blame for the offense when BG and Kirk still can't hit their shots?

I'm really worried about the future if the present doesn't include TT, Sefo, and Noah. 24/16/16 mins MINIMUM please!

by marionette on Dec 10, 2007 3:45 PM CST 0 recs

where's the PT going to come from?

Given the early start, fan & expert freak-out, and subsequent calls for Skiles to be fired by some, can you blame him if "developing the younger talent" is not high on his list of priorities? The Bulls need wins. Even if we assume they'll get back to at least last-year's level (which I do think will happen at some point), the longer this rut continues the more it'll affect play-off seeding at season's end. Skiles has to right the ship ASAP, and playing Noc is helping: in obvious ways, and in less-tangible inspirational ways too. Big Ben is going to get the burn b/c of all the bucks we paid him--that's one mistake Pax & Skiles won't admit, at least not for another year. And Joe Smith doesn't look half bad out there early in games, and seems a more reliable shooter and better fit for some of their offensive schemes than Tyrus. And as 'Sheed said, we don't have too many bigs, so I don't mind seeing 7-ft Noah getting some quality burn over Tyrus too (and that at least validates one of Pax's recent picks).

Maybe once we stop the madness first (at least get to .500) Skiles will work on "developing players" so Ty & Thabo can at least produce like good 2nd-year players.

by T Maple on Dec 10, 2007 3:46 PM CST 0 recs

Tyrus helps ya win

or at least he did last season. Their best lineups had Tyrus, not Nocioni.

Skiles took all that info and bailed on it after 4 games, when Tyrus wasn't the problem in the least.

It doesn't have to be an either/or scenario: play Wallace and Smith less. Unfortunately between those two guys and Nocioni, heavy minutes will mean injuries soon enough. Then Skiles will have to get used to not seeing Malik Allen and realize Tyrus is still around.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 10, 2007 4:11 PM CST up 0 recs

I do agree that Noc's foot

is a ticking time bomb.

Ita est, ergo ita sit.

by alec on Dec 10, 2007 8:15 PM CST up 0 recs

Let them develop now and be ready for the playoffs

I don't see how not playing Ty/Thabo takes away from not winning now. Like has been said here countless times, Thomas was playing well and contributing much more to the team than others getting significantly more minutes. This team most likely will not show improvement in end of the year record compared to last year. Why not, then, show a commitment to preparing for the playoffs now? Frankly, I think Thomas and Noah will fit very well together on both ends of the court and Skiles needs to get them used to it now!

by snley on Dec 10, 2007 4:31 PM CST up 0 recs

The madness is in the minutes

a) .500 ball will make the playoffs in the East.

b) Tyrus is the rare 6-7 that "plays big" (as 'Sheed well knows). No reason to pit his (lack of) PT with that of Noah.

c) If not for Skiles' "coaching", there might be no need to "right the ship", pronto.

d) How far will they advance in the playoffs without the potential improvements of the 2nd yr players? If seeding is the priority, they may never get the necessary mins, barring injury.

e) Paxson (or is it we?) can't evaluate the youth while they're on the bench. Tell TT/Noah/Thabo that they're getting 24/16/16 so they can relax and play.

Play 10, like Phil does: Kirk 34, BG 34, Du 10, Sefo 18, Deng 35, TT 25, Noc 24, BBen 32, Noah 18, JoeS 10. If matchups, recent performances, or disciplinary action warrant it, swap 2nd yr/rook mins with Du and/or JoeS (I'll give on this point to keep it real). But no benchings please!

DET is developing some, and they don't have the high draft pick stakes involved. I'd trade two wins vs DET for player development. And bet those two would've been made up for against someone else.

by marionette on Dec 10, 2007 6:08 PM CST up 0 recs

Skiles and Tryus address

TT's recent benching:

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/basketball/bulls/689921,bull121007.article

Informative, if not promising.

"We goin' to the 'ship!" - LSU IS IN THE NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP!

by 1958ChiTown on Dec 10, 2007 5:11 PM CST 0 recs

He's saying all the right things.

Gotta hand it to Tyrus, that's probably the best he's come off in an interview.

by T Maple on Dec 10, 2007 8:40 PM CST up 0 recs

TT's statements

really are encouraging

by hlac on Dec 10, 2007 9:16 PM CST up 0 recs

Here's the video

for those quotes:

http://weblogs.wgntv.com/sports/basketball/bulls/blog/2007/12/forward_thinking.html

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 11, 2007 11:13 AM CST up 0 recs

for anybody (Sam Smith)

who thinks NBA players are overpaid, F1 driver Fernando Alonso just signed a driver deal with Renault for $51.3M per season...let's say, most of the salary cap for an entire NBA team, dwarfing MJ's last big Bulls' deals. Amazing.

Ita est, ergo ita sit.

by alec on Dec 10, 2007 8:29 PM CST 0 recs

moot

The stars of car racing are the cars. They are blanketed with ads. A team sells the ad space.

This doesn't really compare equivalently to the NBA.

by NBA Observer on Dec 11, 2007 1:27 PM CST up 0 recs

The only relevance to this blog

is through the side entrance Sam Smith uses to creep into our conversations, in particular the two cents he's always throwing in about `overpaid NBA players.'

But, at the risk of getting censured for venturing too, too far of topic, I'd have to disagree about who the stars are in F1 racing. The cars are like our sports stadia, plastered with ads, but the drivers are international celebrities, rivaling the star power of any entertainers in any field.

Look at any annual list of highest paid athletes and you'll find F1 drivers are always at or near the top. The money in F1 is staggering. We think of $5,000 or $25,000 fines as being a big deal--the McLaren team was just fined $100,000,000 (yes, that's one hundred million dollars) for its part in a recent spying scandal involving Ferrari.

In 2004, F1 camp Michael Schumacher's earned over $80M ($40M of which was salary from Farrari). He earned over $800 million in his driving career.

Ita est, ergo ita sit.

by alec on Dec 11, 2007 2:53 PM CST up 0 recs

champ Michael Schumacher

Ita est, ergo ita sit.

by alec on Dec 11, 2007 2:56 PM CST up 0 recs

Nocioni

I've defended him quite a bit around here so I'm sure you're prepared for this, but while I agree Nocioni shouldnt be the best player on this team, you're fooling yourself if you don't think he should be logging heavy minutes. I know you hate terms like "energy" and "hustle" so how about the simple fact that he's our most consistent offensive player and the only player on the team who can drive the ball to the rim and finish, not to mention our best shooter. These aren't intangibles. He's good.

I know you want more minutes for Tyrus but as I've said before they are completely different players and just because they play "power forward" doesnt mean you shouldnt be able to find ways to get them both on the floor. Nocioni is more valuable to this team right now than Deng and I suspect the only reason you'd think Deng should start over Nocioni is "youth" and "upside" which are equally stupid terms.

by JSlakov on Dec 10, 2007 8:41 PM CST 0 recs

youth is f'real. (youth is truth?)

Who cares about 'right now'? This team sucks right now, I don't want to keep that trend going. It's not like we don't have years of data to compare Deng and Nocioni. This isn't even like Duhon over Hinrich, as Deng's been dissapointing but still average.

(I suppose I could've just said: huh?)

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 10, 2007 9:01 PM CST up 0 recs

your data

doesnt take into account that Deng gets his points off other people, finding him open for his mid range jumper and cutting to the basket and Nocioni with his drives actually creates for other people, even though he rarely passes, because they have to honor it. Its simple basketball, if someone can drive to the basket and finish then the defense has to respect it. If they don't, like the Pistons the other day, then he can just keep doing it, but in other games it gets your boy Deng that automatic jumper of his.

Look I think Deng should start but your continued insistence that Nocioni cannot play a large role on a good team is incredibly stupid. You really don't think he could take Brent Barry's minutes on the Spurs?

by JSlakov on Dec 11, 2007 2:55 PM CST up 0 recs

The simple truth

It's a surface review, but in the last five games where the Bulls are 3-2 Thomas' minutes have declined and Noah's minutes have increased. One of the victories, the win in Charlotte, is arguably because of Noah's presence on the floor and Thomas' presence on the bench in the final 16 minutes of the game.

Play Noah, sit Thomas, and Chicago is in ball games in the 4th quarter with a chance to win.

by NBA Observer on Dec 11, 2007 1:37 PM CST up 0 recs

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