Open Game Thread # 12: Bulls at Toronto Raptors
[Thanks to wjb1492 for today's game thread. -Matt]
I don't even know where to start, or what's worth saying again about the team. The Bulls' Saturday loss to the Knicks (the Knicks!) was yet another display of bad passing and poor shooting. It's not as if the Knicks played well, shooting 39.4%, missing 16 free throws, and racking up 17 turnovers. But the Bulls incredibly, fantastically, and unbelievably managed to play even worse, shooting a hideous 34.5%, which they combined with a -10 rebound margin, 14 TOs to a measly 13 assists, and a grand total of 29 personal fouls for the day. And that's just the stats - if you missed the game, you'll thank me for sparing you the details of the many passes directly into the arms of Knicks and the many airballs put up by our team, not to mention the long scoreless stretch at the end of the 4th quarter when the game was there for the taking. It seems I can't help pulling for this team, so I'm really hoping that their crash to the bottom of the East has jarred them all, Kirk and BG and their anti-career years in particular, into remembering that they are capable of playing much better than this.
Meanwhile, Toronto is coming off of a Saturday loss of its own, narrowly losing to the Cavs 108-111. Unfortunately for the Bulls, not all losses are created equal. The raps shot 49.4% from the field and 90.9% from the line, with 25 assists to only 5 TOs. About the only box-score type thing they didn't do well - other than getting the W, of course - was rebound (only 28, -19 margin). If the Bulls shooting stays as cold as it has been, the Raps will get plenty of opportunities to work on that!
So what to expect in the game tomorrow? I confess, I'm a little scared to think about it. I'm guessing everyone remembers what happened last time the Bulls and Raps faced off, and if the guys show up in Toronto with a performance like Saturday's, it could get really ugly really quick. I'm going to cling to the law of averages - as bad as they've been, at some point they're going to play outstanding ball to even out the stats. Hopefully that will start really soon. Nesterovic, TJ Ford, and Garbajosa were out for yesterday's game, while Lu sat out the Knicks disaster with his back injury. Nesterovic and Garbajosa will almost certainly be out again, while Ford and Lu are listed as questionable.
I wish I could come up with something positive to wrap up with here, but I've got nothing. Bracing for disappointment does that to me. But maybe this will be the game...
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Watching the celtics highlights and
fire skiles now!
by fireskiles on Nov 25, 2007 2:09 AM CST reply actions
i can't take it anymore
And to think none of us wanted to trade
by hhi on Nov 25, 2007 5:39 AM CST reply actions
It is what it is.
I hope Lu is back today.
I like these afternoon games
by bleargh on Nov 25, 2007 10:40 AM CST reply actions
Coinidence?
Both teams looked, and for all intents and purposes, seemed like they would both be teams to beat and possibly get back to the SB and to the finals...
And NOW look....
For ME anyway, that is what is making this all so hard to deal with - because I love BOTH of these teams so much, and usually have SOMETHING to look forward to watching highlights on CC Sportsnet in the mornings...
But instead I haven't been watching at all because it's just painful reminders of how ugly things have gotten this season.
Dear Santa:
All I want for Christmas is for our Chicago teams to get back to winning again.
COINCIDENCE...sorry
lets put forward a motion
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 25, 2007 11:09 AM CST up reply actions
Sorry I pissed you off
I hear ya.
I really don't want to
by bleargh on Nov 25, 2007 11:04 AM CST reply actions
Hey!
by bleargh on Nov 25, 2007 11:06 AM CST up reply actions
According to Wayne
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 25, 2007 11:08 AM CST reply actions
yes, he's their Chris Duhon
(actually, Duhon could start for the Bulls now)
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 25, 2007 11:11 AM CST up reply actions
even more reason
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 25, 2007 11:17 AM CST up reply actions
This is the day
Bulls by 1!
Tyrus is getting picked on for fouls
cap flexibility
god damnit
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 25, 2007 11:16 AM CST reply actions
LU looks very unsure of himself out there
that's twice that Luol
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 25, 2007 11:20 AM CST reply actions
Early, but the boys are playing
by bleargh on Nov 25, 2007 11:23 AM CST reply actions
Sit him down
by Freethefro on Nov 25, 2007 11:23 AM CST reply actions
they can use ANY help they can find
Perhaps maybe wait until Tuesday in front of the home crowd to build a little confidence...?
And just as I say that
At least his jumper is starting to fall...
Yeah,
Lu looks to be
Sweet words
Haven't heard that all bloody season (I don't think)!
Heinrich is on fire!
Man, what a quarter!
by bleargh on Nov 25, 2007 11:38 AM CST reply actions
That's what I'm talkin' 'bout!
Did Humphries lead the big 10
What IS a "pookie" anyway?
don't know,
You ready for this?
Thabo has been a therror
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 25, 2007 11:48 AM CST reply actions
Are the bulls
wow
...the more they've stayed the same
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 25, 2007 11:53 AM CST up reply actions
I hope Kirk has a good game
clever
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 25, 2007 11:54 AM CST up reply actions
They're not playing the
Lu might still be stiff
FT's look decent too...
Do the Toronto guys get paid
Last I heard
As the us dollar devalues
by bullshooter on Nov 25, 2007 12:06 PM CST up reply actions
It's all part of the Raptor's master plot...
by Freethefro on Nov 25, 2007 12:08 PM CST up reply actions
they do get paid in canadian dollars
taxes are another big variable.
On taxes, I believe it's Florida that has no state income taxes, so players on the Florida teams keep significantly more of what they earn.
Classic
by Freethefro on Nov 25, 2007 12:07 PM CST reply actions
I've been positive
by Freethefro on Nov 25, 2007 12:17 PM CST up reply actions
Deng and Noch
what the hell was wrong with deng the last two plays, he had people open and he doesnt pass the ball. And whats with taking one dribble when it gets you nowhere, you havent moved the d, you havent gotten any closer to the rim...dont try to be this teams superstar man, just play the damn game!!!! ARGHHH>...and heres hoping hinrichs shooting has truly returned, not a hiccup.
well then
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 25, 2007 12:16 PM CST up reply actions
come back home without him
One can always hope.
Let's see how many times Noc chucks
la terminal au du nord, monsieur Skiles
monsieur
dunno. me neither.
Everytime I see that word
Funny how stuff gets attached to brain cells for life...
:-)
I don't think they speak French in Toronto
my ssiter lived in toronto
Keep playing
This is noting like the
tyrus = low post scorer
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 25, 2007 12:27 PM CST reply actions
Is it me
You don't even hear his name much during the game anymore...
no, that's the case
by Freethefro on Nov 25, 2007 12:35 PM CST up reply actions
ahhh
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 25, 2007 12:36 PM CST reply actions
bulls are, for the most part,
deng
i'm shocked that nobody
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 25, 2007 12:39 PM CST reply actions
I think you'd really have to give up quality
I think that has possibilities.
It's not you.
Early in 3rd
Andres Nocioni should not shoot
by Freethefro on Nov 25, 2007 12:51 PM CST reply actions
so
who besides Hinrich (surprise)
by bullshooter on Nov 25, 2007 12:55 PM CST up reply actions
is hinrich
smith and thomas
Gordon's shooting like crap again. :(
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 25, 2007 1:01 PM CST up reply actions
I don't know how we gona finish today
Actually it is hard to play worse then yesterday.
nice of Noc and Delfino
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 25, 2007 12:59 PM CST reply actions
Thabo does ok
beacuse they're all
Worst 4th quarter team in the league
It's like they're shooting with two hands around their necks
they're no good at the first 3 quarters
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 25, 2007 1:03 PM CST up reply actions
If you watch them in warmups
by Freethefro on Nov 25, 2007 1:04 PM CST up reply actions
Someone was at the game yesterday
I prefer to think of him as Tyrus Thomas
by Freethefro on Nov 25, 2007 1:08 PM CST up reply actions
On the bright side . . .
And right after I write that . . .
10 pt. lead for TOR with 3:00 to go
plant something on Skiles
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 25, 2007 1:09 PM CST up reply actions
ce qui est ceci, monsieur skiles?
How is Toronto's pick and role
Because Toronto is a real team
well it's almost better
Skiles is a good coach but clearly not so special he's unfireable. And teams this bad fire their coach. At least get a patsy in to play Tyrus in the 4th. Or Noah at all.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 25, 2007 1:11 PM CST reply actions
it's getting close to that
What upsets me
Wallace hustled Paxson. And Paxson, in the meanwhile, has squandered whatever credibility he bought with the selections of Gordon, Deng and Hinrich.
by Freethefro on Nov 25, 2007 1:16 PM CST up reply actions
missed FTs??
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 25, 2007 1:13 PM CST up reply actions
It seems like Ben Gordon will never have a
A Gordon who can't shoot
Tyrus DOES tend to take his time
uh, is that when he's sitting
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 25, 2007 1:16 PM CST up reply actions
He played at the end
Now they're playing poorly
The trend is clear
I don't think that's what it is.
bad teams
The UC is going to be like a morgue on Tuesday
I may start one from the outset.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 25, 2007 1:22 PM CST up reply actions
I checked and
I'm just saying that
Fi-re Scott!Bum,Bum,Bum!
Fi-re Scott!Bum,Bum,Bum!
maybe Pax lets Skiles
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 25, 2007 1:22 PM CST reply actions
I think if you're hoping for changes to be made,
they. can't. score. points.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 25, 2007 1:44 PM CST up reply actions
Wow
I doubt the Bulls
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 25, 2007 1:23 PM CST up reply actions
He has...
by Kemp @ Blog a Bull on Nov 25, 2007 5:44 PM CST up reply actions
Who would have thought
The new Bulls season starts
by goldengod on Nov 25, 2007 1:30 PM CST up reply actions
Unbelievable
Evil thy name is....
Looking for positives here
No!!!
by Orange Juice on Nov 25, 2007 2:16 PM CST up reply actions
je ne sais pas
oui oui, je m'appelle alec et je suis stupide
contrary to the subject heading, i agree with you. we're fine, we'll make the playoffs, we'll turn it around but it's getting awfully close to that turning around time and i have to admit i'm getting a little nervous!
by Orange Juice on Nov 25, 2007 2:24 PM CST up reply actions
The 1st Q
It was much better game than the final score would indicate.
you guys are all nuts
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 25, 2007 1:53 PM CST up reply actions
I am kinda nuts, and can't speak for the rest,
a) few retarded TOs in the half court
b) forced tempo (especially in 1st half) leading to easier transition baskets
c) less dumb fouls
d) and pretty good ball movement throughout the game (no 24sec buzzer beaters or TOs).
In prior games, the commentators "They're getting good shots" seemed a crazy observation to me, but this time I think they really did. Except for the first half of the 4th, when they were happy with chucking 20fters too quickly ('cause they weren't that open) in transition. That killed them, along with missed FTs (all game long, and not Wallace) and poor perimeter and pick/roll defense in the 4th Q.
Of course, games this past week have set the expectations bar low.
if we're all nuts ...
by Orange Juice on Nov 25, 2007 2:29 PM CST up reply actions
Give Thomas 15 of Nocioni's minutes
But moreover, the Bulls need to manage the break better. They seem to only even consider putting themselves in good positions to score when they set up their half-court offense after an opponent basket. Yet, when they actually play superior defense, grabbing rebounds, steals, et cetera, they rush down the court and throw up the first shot they see.
A play by Gordon in the fourth, when the score was still quite close, typified this malady: the Bulls were playing excellent defense for a sustained stretch, and once again created a turnover; nevertheless - despite the fact that the Bulls themselves were equally struggling to score - Gordon received the ball, raced to around the free-throw stripe, and pulled up for a jump-shot without even attempting to proceed to closer to the basket. He had a couple of defenders coming to meet him, but they had bad angles and were more likely to foul him than accept a charge; instead, the defenders trailing Gordon had excellent angles to the long rebound from his ostensibly-inevitable brick.
It's hard for
I'd say that 20 games is a good indicator
So really, why not just fire Skiles now, get in an assistant to at least play different rotations and give them a new guy to yell at them, and then between now and February there's plenty of deals to potentially make.
This franchise is still in a good position with a lot of young talent. Lets not waste it letting Skiles 'figure things out'.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 25, 2007 1:55 PM CST reply actions
What qualities do you look for in Skiles'
eh
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 25, 2007 4:23 PM CST up reply actions
Today on ESPN 1000
May we can try him,just to see what different
person(other then Skiles) can bring to this team.
I don't think that things can go any worse then this.
and...
by theundergroundman on Nov 25, 2007 2:33 PM CST up reply actions
This team always has a bad record at the
just because they've had bad records before
And what's 'turning it around'? They'll play better and get to 44 wins and have Skiles blow at least one playoff game?
They should be able to beat teams when not completely healthy, and (god forbid) win road games too.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 25, 2007 2:06 PM CST up reply actions
I agree with your general points,
getting back to how they have been
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 25, 2007 4:07 PM CST up reply actions
Home games
by goldengod on Nov 25, 2007 2:08 PM CST up reply actions
right
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 25, 2007 2:08 PM CST up reply actions
There was no reason for a bad start this year
I can't imagine
for example, today Noah
The Bulls plan has been character over
IF "nature" of the team
I think it may be more accurate
Well, Noah is a
The problem is can they win with a small lineup (Kirk, BG, Deng, Noc, and BBen) in 4th quarters? Good character and hustle can only help, right?
I'm actually not ready to dump Skiles, partly 'cause his replacement might be worse. But I don't know all the coaches. Iavaroni or Adelman maybe could've worked...
Perhaps I am a simpleton, but I
The basic problem, as someone stated above, is that the Bull can't score. In large part, that lack of scoring is due to poor shooting (and poor play in general) by the guards. I'm not sure how a new coach can stop Ben Gordon from shooting 4-17 and 7-18 in consecutive games? Unless you truly believe that the Bulls, consciously or unconsciously, are rebelling against Skiles by playing poorly, a new coach isn't going to alleviate the fundamental issue.
(BTW, if, in fact, the Bulls' players are rebelling by playing poorly, they are collectively either foolhardy or obstinate. They are only hurting themselves in the long run.)
No, obviously you're not a simpleton,
right
Skiles' replacement won't make the Bulls shoot better, but Skiles won't either. So really what's the difference.
I'm more just wanting to make a statement that this hasn't worked, and lets try something different. Doesn't always mean better, but it's looking like Skiles is a good coach but ultimately replaceable.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 25, 2007 4:11 PM CST up reply actions
eggsactly
I just want a new offensive philosophy.
But with clankiness, bum ankles/old-age and bench warming (for whatever reason), the philosophy completely sucks.
While I assume no one is ready for a full-scale rebuilding effort, I wouldn't mind it if it began with the young frontcourt and a new coach. If the backcourt can't get its act together over the next 20 games, I think we might have to concede that their potential isn't as high as last year led us to believe.
Do experience, uninjured, young, progressing players underperform horribly for half of a season?
Skiles has always failed to get through to the mor
Skilo-Pax methods:
BG - from .455 to .360
Thabo .426 to .288
Kirk .448 to .333
Duh .408 to .333
Deng .517 to .455
TT .475 to .413
BW .453 to .379
Even Khryapa was doing well before - .462 in Portland versus .368 under Skiles watch. If you are young and talented stay away from Chicago. TT, Noah, Gardener or Khryapa can become solid NBA players but
they need to relocate asap.
by runio on Nov 25, 2007 4:48 PM CST reply actions
today was a perfect
Compare how Hinrich gets the ball to people to the way Calderon consistantly got the ball where his team mates wanted it and could do something with it. Hinrich is playing out of position as a point guard. But move him to the two, and he's just another in our group of too-short players already there.
As long as Hinrich is playing the point, nothing will run smoothly for this team.
sort of like that last post...
Horrific
by jai on Nov 25, 2007 7:27 PM CST reply actions

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