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Open Game Thread # 12: Bulls at Toronto Raptors

[Thanks to wjb1492 for today's game thread. -Matt]

I don't even know where to start, or what's worth saying again about the team.  The Bulls' Saturday loss to the Knicks (the Knicks!) was yet another display of bad passing and poor shooting.  It's not as if the Knicks played well, shooting 39.4%, missing 16 free throws, and racking up 17 turnovers.  But the Bulls incredibly, fantastically, and unbelievably managed to play even worse, shooting a hideous 34.5%, which they combined with a -10 rebound margin, 14 TOs to a measly 13 assists, and a grand total of 29 personal fouls for the day.  And that's just the stats - if you missed the game, you'll thank me for sparing you the details of the many passes directly into the arms of Knicks and the many airballs put up by our team, not to mention the long scoreless stretch at the end of the 4th quarter when the game was there for the taking.  It seems I can't help pulling for this team, so I'm really hoping that their crash to the bottom of the East has jarred them all, Kirk and BG and their anti-career years in particular, into remembering that they are capable of playing much better than this.

Meanwhile, Toronto is coming off of a Saturday loss of its own, narrowly losing to the Cavs 108-111.  Unfortunately for the Bulls, not all losses are created equal.  The raps shot 49.4% from the field and 90.9% from the line, with 25 assists to only 5 TOs.  About the only box-score type thing they didn't do well - other than getting the W, of course - was rebound (only 28, -19 margin).  If the Bulls shooting stays as cold as it has been, the Raps will get plenty of opportunities to work on that!

So what to expect in the game tomorrow?  I confess, I'm a little scared to think about it.  I'm guessing everyone remembers what happened last time the Bulls and Raps faced off, and if the guys show up in Toronto with a performance like Saturday's, it could get really ugly really quick.  I'm going to cling to the law of averages - as bad as they've been, at some point they're going to play outstanding ball to even out the stats.  Hopefully that will start really soon.  Nesterovic, TJ Ford, and Garbajosa were out for yesterday's game, while Lu sat out the Knicks disaster with his back injury.  Nesterovic and Garbajosa will almost certainly be out again, while Ford and Lu are listed as questionable.

I wish I could come up with something positive to wrap up with here, but I've got nothing.  Bracing for disappointment does that to me.  But maybe this will be the game...

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Watching the celtics highlights and
i wish we had a good team. this team plays like a bunch of sissies.

by tomcat on Nov 25, 2007 2:06 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

fire skiles now!
his player usage patterns are insane and, amazingly, are getting worse

by fireskiles on Nov 25, 2007 2:09 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

i can't take it anymore
as the tears roll down my face,laying in a fetal position, i yearn for the team that many chose as the class of the East. how much longer must i endure this unimaginable pain.

by tomcat on Nov 25, 2007 2:31 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

And to think none of us wanted to trade
these "untouchables" for Kobe Bryant!

by hhi on Nov 25, 2007 5:39 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

It is what it is.
Just do it Bulls!!

I hope Lu is back today.

Please get this season turned around and play some great basketball.

by sue369 on Nov 25, 2007 10:27 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

I like these afternoon games
Reminds me of back when the Bulls were a staple on those NBA on NBC Sunday matinees!

by bleargh on Nov 25, 2007 10:40 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

Coinidence?
I just realized that the same thing has happened to the Bulls that happened to the Bears this year.

Both teams looked, and for all intents and purposes, seemed like they would both be teams to beat and possibly get back to the SB and to the finals...

And NOW look....

For ME anyway, that is what is making this all so hard to deal with - because I love BOTH of these teams so much, and usually have SOMETHING to look forward to watching highlights on CC Sportsnet in the mornings...
But instead I haven't been watching at all because it's just painful reminders of how ugly things have gotten this season.

Dear Santa:
All I want for Christmas is for our Chicago teams to get back to winning again.

Is it spring training yet?

by Bluelou on Nov 25, 2007 10:56 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

COINCIDENCE...sorry
So outta sorts I can't even SPELL today....sheesh!   :-)
Is it spring training yet?

by Bluelou on Nov 25, 2007 10:58 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

lets put forward a motion
no lame tie-ins to other chicago teams. believe it or not, some don't give a crap.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 25, 2007 11:09 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Sorry I pissed you off
I'm just reachin' for anything to get a win with.

I hear ya.

Is it spring training yet?

by Bluelou on Nov 25, 2007 11:42 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I really don't want to
Pin all the hopes for the season on Luol Deng.

by bleargh on Nov 25, 2007 11:04 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

Hey!
I live in Boston and HATE the Pats. This is supposed to be my sanctuary!

by bleargh on Nov 25, 2007 11:06 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

too bad that other PG is better
Officially a hater on Ballhype!

by hscs on Nov 25, 2007 11:09 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

yes, he's their Chris Duhon
except Calderon really could start for other teams.

(actually, Duhon could start for the Bulls now)

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 25, 2007 11:11 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Looks like Skiles
has gone back to the original line up

by Option27 on Nov 25, 2007 11:12 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

even more reason
the 'tinkering' was unnecessary and stupid.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 25, 2007 11:17 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

This is the day
it all turns around, ladies and gentlemen! What could be less likely? Therefore, opposite logic dictates: it shall be so.

Bulls by 1!

by marionette on Nov 25, 2007 11:12 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

The TOR
cheerleaders are VERY talented, BTW.

by marionette on Nov 25, 2007 11:14 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

Tyrus is getting picked on for fouls
as though he were still a rookie...
Is it spring training yet?

by Bluelou on Nov 25, 2007 11:15 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

cap flexibility
whats our situation for next year in termsof cap lexibility.  I know we have walace,nocioni and hinrich locked up for about 30-32 million.  We the gordon/hinrich experiment isnt working and im not wiling to blame gordon for that... Maybe sign and trade duhon, gordon, and something else for gilbert arenas?   Maybe since he is gimpy he will be cheaper.  Arenas and noah will be fun experiment and arenas isnt 6' 1" I know, this is wishful thinking but oh well.  Something will have to change if this crap doesnt get better. I dont know how skiles and arenas would get along but if that is the issue than fire skiles.  The celtics are amaing but I dont think they will be able to keep this pace up for the whole season.  Even if they do, next year or the year afterwards they will collapse. Playing garnett,  allen and pierce 40 minutes a night cant be a good plan.

by Sambossanova on Nov 25, 2007 11:15 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

god damnit
Tyrus with two perhaps-fouls. that's shit luck. Although I'd like for the commandments of coaching not to include pulling a guy after 2 fouls, absolutely.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 25, 2007 11:16 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

LU looks very unsure of himself out there
passing the ball of in the lane for a TO...
Is it spring training yet?

by Bluelou on Nov 25, 2007 11:20 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

Deng is playing
at 1/2 speed.
Officially a hater on Ballhype!

by hscs on Nov 25, 2007 11:20 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

that's twice that Luol
got near the rim and only looked to pass it out. and it got 2 turnovers.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 25, 2007 11:20 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

make that 3 times
Is it spring training yet?

by Bluelou on Nov 25, 2007 11:22 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

Early, but the boys are playing
with a lot more energy and enthusiasm today.

by bleargh on Nov 25, 2007 11:23 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

Sit him down
he isn't ready.  0/5, swatted twice, turnovers....

by Freethefro on Nov 25, 2007 11:23 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

they can use ANY help they can find
but is it possible that they're rushing Lu back too soon?
Perhaps maybe wait until Tuesday in front of the home crowd to build a little confidence...?
Is it spring training yet?

by Bluelou on Nov 25, 2007 11:27 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

And just as I say that
Lu has hit twice...
At least his jumper is starting to fall...
Is it spring training yet?

by Bluelou on Nov 25, 2007 11:29 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah,
those shots had a nice arc. Mostly, his shot has been real flat before. Watch his movement on the other end. He looks stiff to me.

by marionette on Nov 25, 2007 11:32 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Lu looks to be
still hurt. They're playing pretty well, tho'. Need to transition better on D. And go inside some more, despite Lu's troubles.

by marionette on Nov 25, 2007 11:25 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

Sweet words
Did I just hear them say the Bulls shooting over 50%?
Haven't heard that all bloody season (I don't think)!
Is it spring training yet?

by Bluelou on Nov 25, 2007 11:32 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

Heinrich is on fire!
whoa...
Is it spring training yet?

by Bluelou on Nov 25, 2007 11:37 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

Kirk?
When he goes, so do the Bulls

by Option27 on Nov 25, 2007 11:38 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

Man, what a quarter!
Is it too early to be this excited???

by bleargh on Nov 25, 2007 11:38 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

That's what I'm talkin' 'bout!
So Skiles plays the real Bull lineup, even including extra "foul trouble" mins for TT, and we see the result! Good shooting helps, but how do the Skiles' mind games help the shooting ?

by marionette on Nov 25, 2007 11:41 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

Did Humphries lead the big 10
in rebounding at Minn?
And worse we may be yet: the worst is not so long as we can say, "This is the worst."

by alec on Nov 25, 2007 11:43 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

What IS a "pookie" anyway?
Is it spring training yet?

by Bluelou on Nov 25, 2007 11:45 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

don't know,
bitsy pookims
And worse we may be yet: the worst is not so long as we can say, "This is the worst."

by alec on Nov 25, 2007 11:48 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Thabo has been a therror
on defense. still bricktacular though

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 25, 2007 11:48 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

Are the bulls
really trying to post Noc on Bosh.  Check that, did Noc just stuff Bosh?
Nocioni-Khryapa in '08

by bullshooter on Nov 25, 2007 11:49 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

wow
you know things have changed when BG tries to turn it over but it bounces right to Wallace.
Nocioni-Khryapa in '08

by bullshooter on Nov 25, 2007 11:51 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

I hope Kirk has a good game
if for nothing else than to impress Colangelo enough to trade us Calderon.
And worse we may be yet: the worst is not so long as we can say, "This is the worst."

by alec on Nov 25, 2007 11:53 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

clever
except they'd trade calderon because they already have a point guard, and then wouldn't want a point guard back.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 25, 2007 11:54 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm just
grasping at straws here.
And worse we may be yet: the worst is not so long as we can say, "This is the worst."

by alec on Nov 25, 2007 11:59 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

They're not playing the
screen/roll on Bosh well at all. Some size matchups might be useful also: more Smith w/ Wallace, or some Noah.

by marionette on Nov 25, 2007 11:55 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

Lu might still be stiff
but he seems to have his jumper back.
FT's look decent too...
Is it spring training yet?

by Bluelou on Nov 25, 2007 11:58 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

Do the Toronto guys get paid
in canadian dollars?  When is that exchange rate set?  Those guys could be making an extra 10-20%.
Nocioni-Khryapa in '08

by bullshooter on Nov 25, 2007 11:59 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

Last I heard
wasn't the US dollar worth LESS than the CA dollar?
Is it spring training yet?

by Bluelou on Nov 25, 2007 12:01 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

As the us dollar devalues
the toronto guys get paid relatively more in us dollars if they get a fixed amount of canadian dollars.
Nocioni-Khryapa in '08

by bullshooter on Nov 25, 2007 12:06 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

they do get paid in canadian dollars
and the exchange rate is very close to one-to-one with the US dollar right now.
And worse we may be yet: the worst is not so long as we can say, "This is the worst."

by alec on Nov 25, 2007 12:01 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

taxes are another big variable.
Canada has more social benefits programs than the US, so the wealthy pay a higher tax rate than in the US.  Canadians have something very close to universal health care, and higher education is also subsidized much more than in the US.

On taxes, I believe it's Florida that has no state income taxes, so players on the Florida teams keep significantly more of what they earn.

And worse we may be yet: the worst is not so long as we can say, "This is the worst."

by alec on Nov 25, 2007 12:15 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Yet another cold spell
33 points in the 1st quarter, 10 points in the 2nd.

by Big D on Nov 25, 2007 12:06 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Classic
everyone excited, Hinrich rolling...down by 6 at half.

by Freethefro on Nov 25, 2007 12:07 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

I'm still excited...
C'mon people! Let's stay POSITIVE!

by marionette on Nov 25, 2007 12:13 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I've been positive
now what I want is big guards, a low post scorer, players of elite athleticism and a coach who will play them.  For Christmas.

by Freethefro on Nov 25, 2007 12:17 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Deng and Noch
BETTER START PASSING!!!!

what the hell was wrong with deng the last two plays, he had people open and he doesnt pass the ball. And whats with taking one dribble when it gets you nowhere, you havent moved the d, you havent gotten any closer to the rim...dont try to be this teams superstar man, just play the damn game!!!! ARGHHH>...and heres hoping hinrichs shooting has truly returned, not a hiccup.

im trying hard to become the next kirk hinrich, therefore im doing nothing more than being the next chris duhon.

by piccolomair on Nov 25, 2007 12:11 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

well then
they can tell Skiles the wrong airport terminal and come back home without him.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 25, 2007 12:16 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

come back home without him
Wouldn't THAT be nice...
One can always hope.
Is it spring training yet?

by Bluelou on Nov 25, 2007 12:20 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Let's see how many times Noc chucks
shots in the second half on an off-night.

by philosoball on Nov 25, 2007 12:18 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

la terminal au du nord, monsieur Skiles
And worse we may be yet: the worst is not so long as we can say, "This is the worst."

by alec on Nov 25, 2007 12:19 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

monsieur
Alec - I'm no French wiz - is that pronounced "monswah"?
Is it spring training yet?

by Bluelou on Nov 25, 2007 12:21 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

dunno. me neither.
I took french in grade school, so any resemblence to actual french is coincidental.
And worse we may be yet: the worst is not so long as we can say, "This is the worst."

by alec on Nov 25, 2007 12:26 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Everytime I see that word
it reminds me of Maxwell Smart calling someone on the show (Get Smart) "monswah" many years ago....
Funny how stuff gets attached to brain cells for life...
:-)
Is it spring training yet?

by Bluelou on Nov 25, 2007 12:29 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

my ssiter lived in toronto
and there's a ot of french going on there..but you're right, nothing like in Montreal.
And worse we may be yet: the worst is not so long as we can say, "This is the worst."

by alec on Nov 25, 2007 12:27 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

ssiter
Is that french for "sister"?   LOL
Is it spring training yet?

by Bluelou on Nov 25, 2007 12:30 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

2nd half begins
Get ready for the glory of victory.

by marionette on Nov 25, 2007 12:21 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Keep playing
hard in the second half. Make your shots guys.
Please get this season turned around and play some great basketball.

by sue369 on Nov 25, 2007 12:24 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

This is noting like the
Knick game. The flow seemed to go a bit when Duhon was in w/ Kirk to star the 2nd Q, and Deng was out. But, again, no conparison in the on court play to yesterday, despite the 10pts.

by marionette on Nov 25, 2007 12:25 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Is it me
or has big Ben seemed less and less effective this year?
You don't even hear his name much during the game anymore...
Is it spring training yet?

by Bluelou on Nov 25, 2007 12:33 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

no, that's the case
it's just a pity we don't have any athletic, intense seven-footers to take his place.

by Freethefro on Nov 25, 2007 12:35 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

ahhh
Noc in his bench-chucker role. So much more pleasant that way.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 25, 2007 12:36 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

bulls are, for the most part,
looking like an actual team out there today
And worse we may be yet: the worst is not so long as we can say, "This is the worst."

by alec on Nov 25, 2007 12:38 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

deng
getting some respect from the ref
And worse we may be yet: the worst is not so long as we can say, "This is the worst."

by alec on Nov 25, 2007 12:39 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

i'm shocked that nobody
has whined that Jamario Moon is the new Mikki Moore

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 25, 2007 12:39 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Calderon
already has double-double.14 pts 10 ass.
Can we get him for Duhon and Khryapa??

by Azabullsfan on Nov 25, 2007 12:43 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

I think you'd really have to give up quality
to get him.
And worse we may be yet: the worst is not so long as we can say, "This is the worst."

by alec on Nov 25, 2007 12:44 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I think that has possibilities.
You'd still have to find some place to send Hinrich, though.
And worse we may be yet: the worst is not so long as we can say, "This is the worst."

by alec on Nov 25, 2007 12:52 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Is it me?
or is Noc abusing Bosh intermittently.
Nocioni-Khryapa in '08

by bullshooter on Nov 25, 2007 12:47 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

It's not you.
It looks like Bosh gets careless.  
And worse we may be yet: the worst is not so long as we can say, "This is the worst."

by alec on Nov 25, 2007 12:48 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

6 points down
1 quarter left to salvage something on this miserable road trip

by Option27 on Nov 25, 2007 12:49 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Early in 3rd
they'd play great D but lose the reb due to Raps size. Then give up hoop out of position. Late in Q, they made deflections/steals, but Raps wound up with the ball. So they couldn't get over the hump, but are looking good at least.

by marionette on Nov 25, 2007 12:50 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Andres Nocioni should not shoot
8 three-pointers in three quarters.

by Freethefro on Nov 25, 2007 12:51 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

so
this team still cant shoot. Who gave permission to nocioni to shoot 8 threes. He should learnhis place. Its ok to do that when the rest of your teammates suck, but tonight the others dont seem to be doing so so  shitty.

by Sambossanova on Nov 25, 2007 12:53 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

who besides Hinrich (surprise)
is shooting well today?
Nocioni-Khryapa in '08

by bullshooter on Nov 25, 2007 12:55 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

is hinrich
0 for 5 since the first quarter?
And worse we may be yet: the worst is not so long as we can say, "This is the worst."

by alec on Nov 25, 2007 1:01 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

he was 6-10
when I posted that, so I don't see how he could go 0-5.
Nocioni-Khryapa in '08

by bullshooter on Nov 25, 2007 1:06 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

smith and thomas
4-7

Gordon's shooting like crap again. :(

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 25, 2007 1:01 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

The Bulls
can never capitalize on other team's struggles

by Option27 on Nov 25, 2007 12:56 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

I don't know how we gona finish today
but todays game much much better then yesterdays.
Actually it is hard to play worse then yesterday.

by Azabullsfan on Nov 25, 2007 12:57 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

we should push Raptors
in to the foul trouble,and pull the trigger in 4-th.

by Azabullsfan on Nov 25, 2007 12:59 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

nice of Noc and Delfino
to turn this game into an argentine practice session.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 25, 2007 12:59 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Thabo does ok
in close to the basket
And worse we may be yet: the worst is not so long as we can say, "This is the worst."

by alec on Nov 25, 2007 12:59 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Can we take
a shot closer than 20ft away, please???? TOR has terrible interior defenders!!!

by marionette on Nov 25, 2007 1:00 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

beacuse they're all
standing around the three point line
And worse we may be yet: the worst is not so long as we can say, "This is the worst."

by alec on Nov 25, 2007 1:01 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Worst 4th quarter team in the league
I'm so sick of it

It's like they're shooting with two hands around their necks

by Option27 on Nov 25, 2007 1:02 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

If you watch them in warmups
they're incredible.  

by Freethefro on Nov 25, 2007 1:04 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Someone was at the game yesterday
and said even during warmups they couldn't hit
Is it spring training yet?

by Bluelou on Nov 25, 2007 1:06 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

On the bright side . . .
They've played pretty good defense.  It's amazing they're still in the game, considering how poorly they've shot after the first quarter.

by Big D on Nov 25, 2007 1:07 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

And right after I write that . . .
They give up a wide open 3.  Figures.

by Big D on Nov 25, 2007 1:09 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

10 pt. lead for TOR with 3:00 to go
Bulls are dead.
Is it spring training yet?

by Bluelou on Nov 25, 2007 1:08 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

OVER and OUT
get back to Chicago and fix this mess

by Option27 on Nov 25, 2007 1:08 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

ce qui est ceci, monsieur skiles?
And worse we may be yet: the worst is not so long as we can say, "This is the worst."

by alec on Nov 25, 2007 1:18 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

How is Toronto's pick and role
so much more effective than the Bulls'?  Especially the pick.  
Nocioni-Khryapa in '08

by bullshooter on Nov 25, 2007 1:09 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Because Toronto is a real team
and the Bulls are....umm....I dunno...
Is it spring training yet?

by Bluelou on Nov 25, 2007 1:11 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

well it's almost better
that it's now obvious that this team needs something new.

Skiles is a good coach but clearly not so special he's unfireable. And teams this bad fire their coach. At least get a patsy in to play Tyrus in the 4th. Or Noah at all.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 25, 2007 1:11 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

it's getting close to that
I don't know if they are there yet, but they definitely have young bigs who could benefit from the PT.
Nocioni-Khryapa in '08

by bullshooter on Nov 25, 2007 1:12 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

What upsets me
is that Noah CAN'T be worse than Wallace.  The man has been awful with a few exceptions.  Turnovers, missed shots, missed layups, little rebounding, less heart.  What are we hoping for?  That he'll wake up, or start caring?

Wallace hustled Paxson.  And Paxson, in the meanwhile, has squandered whatever credibility he bought with the selections of Gordon, Deng and Hinrich.

by Freethefro on Nov 25, 2007 1:16 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Too many
missed FTs. Too long before going inside.

by marionette on Nov 25, 2007 1:11 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

missed FTs??
they have 73 points. it's much more than that

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 25, 2007 1:13 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Tyrus DOES tend to take his time
getting down court.
Is it spring training yet?

by Bluelou on Nov 25, 2007 1:14 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

He played at the end
just looked slow is all.
Is it spring training yet?

by Bluelou on Nov 25, 2007 1:27 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Now they're playing poorly
As bad as Deng's TO was on off, Kirk's play on D was worse. Then  Wallace/Kirk switched off/to Bosh two straight times down court!!!

by marionette on Nov 25, 2007 1:17 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

The trend is clear
decent starts, poor finishes.  It's like these guys have mono or something.
Nocioni-Khryapa in '08

by bullshooter on Nov 25, 2007 1:21 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

I don't think that's what it is.
Other teams just let them hang around for a while, then punch them out at the end.  It's what a game almost always looks like when the teams are unequal.
And worse we may be yet: the worst is not so long as we can say, "This is the worst."

by alec on Nov 25, 2007 1:23 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

bad teams
get blown out from the start because they aren't trying.  the bulls try.
Nocioni-Khryapa in '08

by bullshooter on Nov 25, 2007 1:27 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

The UC is going to be like a morgue on Tuesday
If they don't want to hear boos and "Kobe" chants, they better get off to a quick start - like in the first two minutes of the game.

by Big D on Nov 25, 2007 1:21 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

No "Kobe" chant, Matt!
It makes no sense. "Fire Skiles", that I could see.

by marionette on Nov 25, 2007 1:29 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

"Fire Skiles!" is not good
for chanting."Fi-re Scott!Fi-re Scott" is better :-)

by Azabullsfan on Nov 25, 2007 1:58 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I checked and
"fire" is one syllable only. But if you want to make it two, you can do the same with "Skiles". So, to the tune of "Daryl, Daryl", it would be "Fi-re Ski-les". :=)

by marionette on Nov 25, 2007 2:33 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm just saying that
This would sound more dynamic.All together:
Fi-re Scott!Bum,Bum,Bum!
Fi-re Scott!Bum,Bum,Bum!

by Azabullsfan on Nov 25, 2007 3:23 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

HAHAHAHA
That's some good chant writing!

by marionette on Nov 25, 2007 3:54 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

maybe Pax lets Skiles
stay for Tuesday's game at home against Atlanta. And if they lose that (and Atlanta's not terrible) he'll have until Saturday to make a change, and give the new coach a honeymoon game against Charlotte.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 25, 2007 1:22 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

I think if you're hoping for changes to be made,
this was a good game to lose...a game in which they didn't obviously suck.  They just got beat.
And worse we may be yet: the worst is not so long as we can say, "This is the worst."

by alec on Nov 25, 2007 1:26 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

they. can't. score. points.
they won't beat good teams or bad teams barely getting to 80 each game. I thought they looked just as bad as ever.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 25, 2007 1:44 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Wow
Are they interviewing Bosh after the game?  That is definitely a new low for the Bulls.  They won't even interview any of the guys.
Nocioni-Khryapa in '08

by bullshooter on Nov 25, 2007 1:22 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

I doubt the Bulls
were all sunshine coming off the court.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 25, 2007 1:23 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

What is that
growing on Bosh's forehead/eyebrow.
Nocioni-Khryapa in '08

by bullshooter on Nov 25, 2007 1:24 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

He has...
a future in commentating if he cuts the twists.

by Kemp on Nov 25, 2007 5:44 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Who would have thought
The Bulls are nearly 10 games behind Boston and we haven't even finished November yet

by Option27 on Nov 25, 2007 1:23 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

The new Bulls season starts
Time to watch Memphis, Kansas State, Indiana and USC.  Didn't think I'd be saying that this year.  Looks like one of those guys will be a Bull next year.

by goldengod on Nov 25, 2007 1:30 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Unbelievable
One of the goals this season was to finish with the best record in the East.  One month into the season, they have virtually no chance of doing that.  Yeah, it may be early, but these games count just as much as the ones in March and April.  And the bad teams in the East are better than they were a year ago, so there aren't going to be many easy wins.

by Big D on Nov 25, 2007 1:30 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Evil thy name is....
KOBE KURSE!!!!
im trying hard to become the next kirk hinrich, therefore im doing nothing more than being the next chris duhon.

by piccolomair on Nov 25, 2007 1:26 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Looking for positives here
Bulls looked better against a good Toronto team. Deng just got back and looked rusty. Ben Gordon still not "himself". Tyrus needed more minutes. It's hard to stop a losing streak on the road. Anyone else have some positive thoughts?

by philosoball on Nov 25, 2007 1:37 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

No!!!
But maybe you could ask Skiles or one of our Bulls players. Oh wait, they all don't have any positive thoughts either right now ... on the other hand, that Russian in the corner is always thinking positive. Is it just me, or does Khryapa always have that "I was such a stud for my national team at Eurobasket" look on his face? Yeah, it's just me.

by Orange Juice on Nov 25, 2007 2:16 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

je ne sais pas
ok. enough.  they did look a little bit decent today.  I think it was remembered consistancy from last year.  Give them a few games with a healthy, full roster before passing judgement.  That's about as positive as I can get.
And worse we may be yet: the worst is not so long as we can say, "This is the worst."

by alec on Nov 25, 2007 1:40 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

oui oui, je m'appelle alec et je suis stupide
wow it's been awhile since i've used that language. i stopped speaking french when i learned noah's dad won the french open. zut zut et zut ...

contrary to the subject heading, i agree with you. we're fine, we'll make the playoffs, we'll turn it around but it's getting awfully close to that turning around time and i have to admit i'm getting a little nervous!

by Orange Juice on Nov 25, 2007 2:24 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

The 1st Q
showed how it could be if BG and Cap'n are on. Deng and Noc were pretty solid....Noc even made nice plays on defense. But they collectively looked a little tired at the end. I haven't checked the PTs, though.

It was much better game than the final score would indicate.

by marionette on Nov 25, 2007 1:46 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

you guys are all nuts
am I the only one who saw this game as yet another disaster? one good quarter is better than none, but come on.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 25, 2007 1:53 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I am kinda nuts, and can't speak for the rest,
but:
 a) few retarded TOs in the half court
 b) forced tempo (especially in 1st half) leading to easier transition baskets
 c) less dumb fouls
 d) and pretty good ball movement throughout the game (no 24sec buzzer beaters or TOs).

In prior games, the commentators "They're getting good shots" seemed a crazy observation to me, but this time I think they really did. Except for the first half of the 4th, when they were happy with chucking 20fters too quickly ('cause they weren't that open) in transition. That killed them, along with missed FTs (all game long, and not Wallace) and poor perimeter and pick/roll defense in the 4th Q.

Of course, games this past week have set the expectations bar low.

by marionette on Nov 25, 2007 2:22 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

if we're all nuts ...
... then i'm most likely nuts. yeah, i think i'm getting pretty nutty, with apologies to wayne "i will remain positive" larrivee!

by Orange Juice on Nov 25, 2007 2:29 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Give Thomas 15 of Nocioni's minutes
And maybe the Bulls win; Nocioni was 4-15 and had as many rebounds (8) as Thomas despite having nearly twice Thomas's minutes.

But moreover, the Bulls need to manage the break better.  They seem to only even consider putting themselves in good positions to score when they set up their half-court offense after an opponent basket.  Yet, when they actually play superior defense, grabbing rebounds, steals, et cetera, they rush down the court and throw up the first shot they see.  

A play by Gordon in the fourth, when the score was still quite close, typified this malady: the Bulls were playing excellent defense for a sustained stretch, and once again created a turnover; nevertheless - despite the fact that the Bulls themselves were equally struggling to score - Gordon received the ball, raced to around the free-throw stripe, and pulled up for a jump-shot without even attempting to proceed to closer to the basket.  He had a couple of defenders coming to meet him, but they had bad angles and were more likely to foul him than accept a charge; instead, the defenders trailing Gordon had excellent angles to the long rebound from his ostensibly-inevitable brick.

by jpx7 on Nov 25, 2007 1:49 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

It's hard for
TT to play more minutes when he is sitting on the bench with fouls. He had 2 before the first minute was gone in the game today. When he learns to control his actions then yes give him more playing time.
Please get this season turned around and play some great basketball.

by sue369 on Nov 25, 2007 3:12 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I'd say that 20 games is a good indicator
and even if they win 8 straight they'd be .500 after 20 games, which is a failure.

So really, why not just fire Skiles now, get in an assistant to at least play different rotations and give them a new guy to yell at them, and then between now and February there's plenty of deals to potentially make.

This franchise is still in a good position with a lot of young talent. Lets not waste it letting Skiles 'figure things out'.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 25, 2007 1:55 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

What qualities do you look for in Skiles'
replacement?  I'm not necessarily asking who you want as Skiles' replacement, more like what kind of a coach do you want? what strengths, etc.
And worse we may be yet: the worst is not so long as we can say, "This is the worst."

by alec on Nov 25, 2007 2:10 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

eh
mostly just want a coach who doesn't coach so freaking much.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 25, 2007 4:23 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Today on ESPN 1000
they have interviewed Jim Boylan and ask him about roumors that his going to coach college team.And he sad he's open for any opportunity-college,overseas,whatever.
May we can try him,just to see what different
person(other then Skiles) can bring to this team.
I don't think that things can go any worse then this.

by Azabullsfan on Nov 25, 2007 2:14 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

and...
You called me nuts for asking for Skiles' head about this time last year because apparently he's a genius who gets more out of the Bulls than anyone else could since they have no talent.

by theundergroundman on Nov 25, 2007 2:33 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

This team always has a bad record at the
start of the season, it's just that this year we assumed they wouldn't. I think we should give them a chance to turn things around with a healthy squad and some nourishing home games. If they can't beat teams under those circumstances then as the Bush regime says in regards to Iran, "All options should be on the table".

by philosoball on Nov 25, 2007 1:59 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

just because they've had bad records before
doesn't mean they have any special ability to get out of bad records.

And what's 'turning it around'? They'll play better and get to 44 wins and have Skiles blow at least one playoff game?

They should be able to beat teams when not completely healthy, and (god forbid) win road games too.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 25, 2007 2:06 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I agree with your general points,
however, if the Bulls get back to playing the way they have for the past few years, then it would seem unneccesary to get rid of Skiles. Not that I'm a Skiles lover, but the deeper problem seems to be the quality of the players. Maybe they haven't gotten more talented players because of Skiles' inability to get along with less morally upstanding players but that would also probably mean getting rid of Paxson too, no?

by philosoball on Nov 25, 2007 2:11 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

gah
Believe it or not there's only one Ruben Patterson in the NBA.
Officially a hater on Ballhype!

by hscs on Nov 25, 2007 2:19 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Home games
probably won't be so nourishing if they keep this up.  In fact, it will be worse.  I think it's time for Skiles or Pax to suck it up and have Wallace come off the bench.  If he becomes a malcontent because of it then so be it.  It will just show how mentally weak he really is.  The guy is useless to this team.

by goldengod on Nov 25, 2007 2:08 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

right
before the excuse was that being away from home would galvanize things. Now it's that they need the nourishment of home?

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 25, 2007 2:08 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

There was no reason for a bad start this year
This is pretty much the exact same team as last year, with the exception of Joe Smith (Noah doesn't count, since he can't even get off the bench).  The circus trip was supposed to be more reasonable this year too.  They've already been blown out three times (which wasn't happening last year), and they've lost to terrible teams like the Sixers and Knicks.  A week or two ago, I would have agreed that it's not time to panic, but I don't know why anyone should expect the Bulls to suddenly become contenders in the East.  They'll eventually hit some shots and win some games, but does this team have any chance of beating teams like the Celtics, Pistons, and Cavs in a 7-game series?

by Big D on Nov 25, 2007 2:08 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

NO

by goldengod on Nov 25, 2007 2:12 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I can't imagine
that Paxson is happy with the way Skiles has treated the new addtions to the roster Paxson has given him...letting them rot on the bench. Skiles is too connected to his veterans.  A new coach would have an automatic grace period in which he could give the young playes some meaningful minutes.  I think we can all see what's down this road Skiles is taking the team.
And worse we may be yet: the worst is not so long as we can say, "This is the worst."

by alec on Nov 25, 2007 2:17 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

for example, today Noah
couldn't even get off the bench, and against a team of tall, active outside shooters, you'd thikn Noah would be able to do Ok.  But he might as well have still been at Florida for all the notice Skiles paid him.
And worse we may be yet: the worst is not so long as we can say, "This is the worst."

by alec on Nov 25, 2007 2:24 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

The Bulls plan has been character over
talent, veterans over rooks, Defensive Award winners over scrappy young 7 footers, Duke over Connecticut and hustle above all else. If we get rid of Skiles it's like completely changing the nature of our team.

by philosoball on Nov 25, 2007 2:23 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

IF "nature" of the team
brings us at LAST position in East,instead of being first,maybe it's time for changes?

by Azabullsfan on Nov 25, 2007 2:36 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I think it may be more accurate
to say we have a nature of a coach.  I think the team could be quite different if it were coached differently.
And worse we may be yet: the worst is not so long as we can say, "This is the worst."

by alec on Nov 25, 2007 2:39 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Well, Noah is a
scrappy young 7ft, and Tyrus is a "character". I've never understood that line from the B-O-B ers re the draft, I think things have just fallen that way. And the other moves as much about what Pax got rid of as what he brought in.

The problem is can they win with a small lineup (Kirk, BG, Deng, Noc, and BBen) in 4th quarters? Good character and hustle can only help, right?

I'm actually not ready to dump Skiles, partly 'cause his replacement might be worse. But I don't know all the coaches. Iavaroni or Adelman maybe could've worked...

by marionette on Nov 25, 2007 2:59 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Perhaps I am a simpleton, but I
don't see how firing Skiles is going to cure what's ailing this team.

The basic problem, as someone stated above, is that the Bull can't score. In large part, that lack of scoring is due to poor shooting (and poor play in general) by the guards. I'm not sure how a new coach can stop Ben Gordon from shooting 4-17 and 7-18 in consecutive games? Unless you truly believe that the Bulls, consciously or unconsciously, are rebelling against Skiles by playing poorly, a new coach isn't going to alleviate the fundamental issue.

(BTW, if, in fact, the Bulls' players are rebelling by playing poorly, they are collectively either foolhardy or obstinate. They are only hurting themselves in the long run.)

SUCK IT SABAN!

by 1958ChiTown on Nov 25, 2007 2:38 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

No, obviously you're not a simpleton,
but I have to disagree with you...on these grounds.  I think it's possible that Skiles is not putting these players in the best positions for their talents.  One thing I see happening on this team is that Skiles does not communicate at all well with his players.  Part of communicating is noticong who you're communicating with, and to me, I see a whole bunch of trying to hammer square pegs into round holes.  Eventually you may be able to get them to fit, but only by breaking them, ruining what they are naturally.
And worse we may be yet: the worst is not so long as we can say, "This is the worst."

by alec on Nov 25, 2007 2:51 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

right
he's not the main problem, but I don't doubt that Skiles' lineup shennanigans made things worse.

Skiles' replacement won't make the Bulls shoot better, but Skiles won't either. So really what's the difference.

I'm more just wanting to make a statement that this hasn't worked, and lets try something different. Doesn't always mean better, but it's looking like Skiles is a good coach but ultimately replaceable.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 25, 2007 4:11 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

eggsactly
The coach isn't nearly as valuable as most of the players, and a problem like the whole team under-performing at the same time can't be blamed on anyone els.  
Officially a hater on Ballhype!

by hscs on Nov 25, 2007 5:54 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I just want a new offensive philosophy.
My Tyrus-is-perfect because two athletic rebounders with jumpshooters sounds right made sense when the shooters were making a lot more shots and the rebounders could stay on the floor and get off of it.

But with clankiness, bum ankles/old-age and bench warming (for whatever reason), the philosophy completely sucks.

While I assume no one is ready for a full-scale rebuilding effort, I wouldn't mind it if it began with the young frontcourt and a new coach. If the backcourt can't get its act together over the next 20 games, I think we might have to concede that their potential isn't as high as last year led us to believe.

Do experience, uninjured, young, progressing players underperform horribly for half of a season?

Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Nov 25, 2007 5:59 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Skiles has always failed to get through to the mor
talented players on his rosters.  I think this is exactly what we've seen from him in Chicago.  A bunch of not super talented players playing above their heads can only take you so far.  You need s truly great player or two on your roster to get to the top.  As soon as Paxson tries to add those players to the mix, Skiles alienates them.
And worse we may be yet: the worst is not so long as we can say, "This is the worst."

by alec on Nov 25, 2007 2:55 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Skilo-Pax methods:
FG% year ago and now:
BG - from  .455 to .360
Thabo      .426 to .288
Kirk       .448 to .333
Duh        .408 to .333
Deng       .517 to .455
TT         .475 to .413
BW         .453 to .379

Even Khryapa was doing well before - .462 in Portland versus .368 under Skiles watch. If you are young and talented stay away from Chicago. TT, Noah, Gardener or Khryapa can become solid NBA players but
they need to relocate asap.

by runio on Nov 25, 2007 4:48 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

today was a perfect
illustration of what's wrong with the Bulls:  Kirk Hinrich.  He simply cannot get the ball to his team matesanywhere where they can do something with it.  When Hinrich has a game with a lot of assists, it is only because his team mates are hitting their jump shots.   He never gets any the ball going to the basket.  

Compare how Hinrich gets the ball to people to the way Calderon consistantly got the ball where his team mates wanted it and could do something with it.  Hinrich is playing out of position as a point guard.  But move him to the two, and he's just another in our group of too-short players already there.

As long as Hinrich is playing the point, nothing will run smoothly for this team.

And worse we may be yet: the worst is not so long as we can say, "This is the worst."

by alec on Nov 25, 2007 5:07 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

sort of like that last post...
And worse we may be yet: the worst is not so long as we can say, "This is the worst."

by alec on Nov 25, 2007 5:08 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Horrific
This team is pathetic, and has no excuses. They have proven to be paper tigers. Change is going to happen by the trade deadline, or maybe Skiles will fired. The players will start infighting if they haven't already and it's going to get much uglier before it gets better. Doom and gloom, I know. But true.  

by jai on Nov 25, 2007 7:27 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

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