Blog a Bull: An SB Nation Community

Navigation: Jump to content areas:

Around SBN: Recapping Granger's Desert Dagger Bar-right-arrows

This is as distracting as trade talks

Blogabull_s_tiny by your friendly BullsBlogger on in News

Now that the Bulls are off to this ass start, we get the second guessing of the whole Paxiles regime.

Which is certainly fair, except when Jamal Crawford is considered a borderline all-star, and Tyrus Thomas is placed in the category of 'scrappy'.

Get ready for a barrage if J.R. Smith hits a jump shot Tuesday night.

0 recs | Comment 121 comments

Story-email Email Printer Print

Comments

Display:

I feel embarrassed. They make those jerseys tired.
If they don't recover from this there is going to be some real problems. This will be reguarded as one of the biggest flops in Chicago Sports history. Personally I have tired of the whole Scott Skiles crap. I think the Bulls need a stable coach who doesn't constantly freak out like Ditka did in the depressing 90's of Bears football. They need a real point guard and mentally tough players who wana win everytime don the black and red. Time for Paxson to step up and show some guts. He's too nice. This is a discrace for a once proud legacy. Now even Kobe is making fun of the Bulls. Just unreal.
Red Kerr's cough button.

by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on Nov 20, 2007 12:07 AM CST   0 recs

Bulls mental toughness
I think this group of players has plenty of mental toughness.  After 3 bad weeks of basketball they have no mental toughness?  That's a bit of a knee-jerk reaction to a bad start.

With they way this group has performed in the previous 2.5 seasons, I think they have exhibited that they are among the toughest squads in the NBA.  Hinrich and Nocioni are clearly tough.  BG has been resilient despite being jerked in and out of the starting line up throughout his career.  Deng has never complained about anything.

And this has all persisted throughout Skiles tenure; which is probably equal parts developing mental toughness and then eroding it down to the bone.

I think that we have mental toughness in spades.  Just don't confuse that with being good - which is the current problem.

Wrecked 'em? Damn near killed 'em!

by mdmnd9294 on Nov 20, 2007 9:11 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

and....
Tyson Chandler got hurt. Just a reminder how much the 'younger, better Ben Wallace' would've helped during the end of last season, when he was also hurt.

(Not that this is a good time in the Wallace vs. Chandler debate, just pointing out that people are way to quick to pan these things)

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 20, 2007 12:08 AM CST   0 recs

I'm of the opinion
Chandler never would have performed the way he did last year for the Bulls.  If we hadn't traded him, we would have had another year of lamenting the fact he'd regressed so badly.

by Jaina on Nov 20, 2007 12:12 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

Nahhh
Red Kerr's cough button.

by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on Nov 20, 2007 12:14 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

Once again I think Skiles is to blame with
Chandler. He would dog him. Skiles doesn't even have a mustache. Chandler does so now tell me whos more Chicago. I was a big Chandler fan really. I guess it's be cause my best friend is 6'7 and I remember how long it took him to figure being tall.
Red Kerr's cough button.

by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on Nov 20, 2007 12:19 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

Yeah but read on dude.
Chandler has been a force inside for the Hornets since the middle of last season, regularly getting double-doubles in points and rebounds.
Red Kerr's cough button.

by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on Nov 20, 2007 12:13 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

middle of last season...
until he got hurt.

I do like Tyson Chandler a lot, but one of the many reasons he was shipped out was the injuries, that's all I was saying.

Another reason was the Skiles doghouse thing, which is looking less valid seeing what's happening to Tyrus.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 20, 2007 12:18 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

Oh, and this especially isn't an indictment
on the Wallace acquisition since Wallace is also  now hurt, and not even with the courtesy of being out.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 20, 2007 12:20 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

I don't know dog because late at night...
sometimes I wonder and I dream of like Posey going up for a dunk and there is Tyrus and Tyson and they both freaking block the crap out of a dude, at the same time and it's really tweaking people out going to the hoop. I just see them swatting balls like in Blue Chips.

This is how I feel it really sums it up!http://youtube.com/watch?v=Jz1ZvOcmBQs

Red Kerr's cough button.

by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on Nov 20, 2007 12:27 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

well
I don't want to get into what you're right about versus wrong about here but good god you pick apart anything you disagree with and are a total apologist for anything supporting what you agree with. You like Pax at GM so you defend the Chandler trade because Chandler had injury issues. Well Chandler got traded because we signed Wallace to take his place and Wallace was hurt at the beginning this season. And you could argue that a healthy Wallace was almost as nonexistent in the playoffs against Detroit as an injured Chandler would have been.

I agree with you about a lot of this stuff but it's pretty obnoxious to read all your Skiles love and then read you claim Skiles is regressing when he benches Tyrus for no reason after we saw Skiles bench Gordon for no reason for 2 or 3 years.

by theundergroundman on Nov 20, 2007 6:20 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

I'm a complicated dude.
It's not about who I like and don't like, they've done good things and bad.

But the Wallace-Chandler thing isn't meant to be judged now but for 4+ years, and it's my opinion that the Bulls 'won' year 1.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 20, 2007 9:14 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

Ah, here's where were different...
though, perhaps, not only here.  With me, it's all about who I like or don't like.  And right now I like you all, including young master hscs, and even his Petroclus.

by alec on Nov 20, 2007 10:44 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

You also can't forget about the championship
experience that Wallace was expected to bring to the Bulls. On paper, this idea makes a lot of sense:  you've drafted a bunch of young guys with championship experience outside of the NBA, so why not make a big free-agent splash by signing the one guy that personifies how hard work leads to an NBA championship?

Meanwhile, this was also a great opportunity to purge the roster of one of the last remaining vestiges of the troublesome Krause rebuilding program.

I actually liked Chandler a great deal but mentally tough he was not. What do you expect with the guy coming straight out of high school.

Most amusing, however (in retrospect), is the widespread belief that he'd be something like Kevin Garnett:

http://nbadraft.net/profiles/tysonchandler.htm

Note specifically the following direct quotes: "can shoot the ball well"; "has exceptional agility and touch"; "Can knock down shots all the way out to the college three point line".

I thought the Bulls were back... turns out they're just a back end...

by bullhockey on Nov 20, 2007 4:45 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

Don't forget
Adjust Chandler's offensive production for the "Chris Paul Effect".  Chandler basically gets points off dunks and layups thanks to Chris Paul and perimeter threats from Mo Pete and Peja Stoynotgonnaspellitright.

The rebounding and blocks are almost entirely Chandler's production.

by NBA Observer on Nov 20, 2007 12:19 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

If you believe in Win Shares
Wallace had 22 last year, Tyson had 22.  But I am of the "Tyson would've sucked on the Bulls" camp.  I think it's a wash, and the veteran leadership was important, though its current effects is dubious.
On Tyrus Thomas: Get that man a table dance, please!

by cubbybear on Nov 20, 2007 3:07 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

Correction
Tyson had 23
On Tyrus Thomas: Get that man a table dance, please!

by cubbybear on Nov 20, 2007 3:07 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

why
is it always Wallace vs. Chandler?

they could have easily both been on the team and I think that would have been just as logical a front court pairing as the current Wallace and Thomas which you guys love so much.

Or we could have waited and traded Chandler and gotten more than we got for PJ Brown (nothing)

by JSlakov on Nov 20, 2007 12:56 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

that's true
although one answer is the Bulls are too cheap (or frugal or smart) to have two $10+m no-offense centers.

Tyrus makes far far less than Chandler, and is already a better offensive player.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 20, 2007 1:05 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

So Matt what now?
What should the Bulls do with this. I mean the solution is to win but they don't seem to wana really care about that. The Bulls had every Chance in the world to go up by 20 on the Lakers in the first half. For whatever reason the lost energy and there was no fight left. Thats what I don't understand is how can you have no pride at all? How can you just let somebody steal the food off your plate? This team just doesn't represent a Chicago Bulls team to me. I want people who care and have pride. I know it's Cheesy but what now?
Red Kerr's cough button.

by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on Nov 20, 2007 12:38 AM CST   0 recs

Trade Hinrich
Jason Kidd for Kirk Hinrich and change.

by NBA Observer on Nov 20, 2007 12:19 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

Its never good
playing in a back to back, even if its in the same city, you can lose your legs.

by Kemp on Nov 20, 2007 2:42 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

I don't think I ever want to meet
someone who considers Jamal Crawford a  borderline all-star.

by KT on Nov 20, 2007 5:53 AM CST   0 recs

crasy knick fans
I'm surprise Knick fans love Crawford.  His game is the same tired no hesitation jump shooting at 40% with flashes of dribble penetration.  His defense is terrible as well.

by NBA Observer on Nov 20, 2007 12:20 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

Isn't Crawford in Isiah's dog house now?
You know you have problems if Isiah puts you in the doghouse.  

by upther on Nov 20, 2007 8:05 AM CST   0 recs

The Skiles/Paxson Propaganda Machine
bears an uncanny and uncomfortable resemblance to the sinister Rove/Cheney methodology.  Or maybe we should consider them artists--impressionist picture painters, giving just enough false and misleading information to allow us, the fans, to draw erroneous conclusions...like Chandler's "small hands," and Crawford's "low basketball IQ."

I listen to them.  I hear what they tell us.  And I immediately wonder, "What are they really saying?"

by alec on Nov 20, 2007 9:19 AM CST   0 recs

well you picked some crappy examples
you think either of those conclusions were wrong?

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 20, 2007 9:30 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

I was just about to say
the same thing...I kinda agree with his theory, but his examples weren't too great.

One that does come to mind though is Adrian Griffin's "calming affect" or "craftiness"...ugh

by ScottieCartwright on Nov 20, 2007 9:41 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

Sam Smith's articles on Tyrus Thomas . . .
Do bear a striking resemblance to the Swift Boat ads.

by Big D on Nov 20, 2007 9:41 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

Thank you.
I finally was able to sneak in a political reference that Matt didn't censor.  (However, I must admit I had a back-up post at the ready.)

by alec on Nov 20, 2007 9:56 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

Speaking of superstars
The move that bothers me more than anything during this rebuilding period was the non-move to trade up in the draft to get Wade because Pax didn't want to give up Donyelle Marshall in the package...

by Hiryu on Nov 20, 2007 9:39 AM CST   0 recs

I haven't heard that one
I  was always under the impression that the Heat really liked Wade. Marshall ended up getting traded that season too.
Officially a hater on Ballhype!

by hscs on Nov 20, 2007 9:43 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

There were reports we has trying to trade with
the Raptors.

rose/Marshall the 7th pick for the 4th pick and maybe something else.  

But it's not a confirmed fact, and I'm pretty sure the Raptors GM has said that he wasn't doing a trade.  Trade speculation is such a cheap way to criticize a GM - like all the Kobe stuff, most of the rumors just aren't true but speculation fueled by people with adgendas.

And speakin of GMS - Dumars picking Milicic insted of Anthony, Bosh or Wade?

by KT on Nov 20, 2007 9:48 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

why would Toronto want Rose back?
Didn't the bulls just get those two from Toronto?  That doesn't sound all that plausible.  
Nocioni-Khryapa in '08

by bullshooter on Nov 20, 2007 12:15 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

No, Rose came to the Bulls from Indiana
And Pax traded him and Marshall to the Raptors for Antonio Davis.

But all of those draft/trade rumors are murky, and hard to know what the truth because the GMs generally don't say.  

by KT on Nov 20, 2007 12:24 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

thanks you for the correction
those were dark days in bullfandom.
Nocioni-Khryapa in '08

by bullshooter on Nov 20, 2007 3:44 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

i was always
under the impression that Paxson thought that Wade was going to fall to #7, thus he didn't think he really needed to move up

by ScottieCartwright on Nov 20, 2007 9:49 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

yeah...
I remember a bunch of mock drafts had Miami picking Maciej Lampe.  I know Wade may have gotten them a championship, but I still think they missed out.  They could have had 2 with the Polish Thunder (I assume that is his nickname?)

by CatBrains on Nov 20, 2007 1:29 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

Crawford, I believe
didn't begin playing organized basketball until his junior year in high school.  After his senior season, he was named player of the year in his state, and was subsequently offered a scholarship to Michigan.  He left early to enter the draft.  So, yes, I believe there is a basis in fact for the propaganda.  He was lacking in basketball experience when he came to the Bulls.  However, I also think Jamal Crawford is an unusually bright person.  I think he's figured it out.  All it took was a little time and some coaching (cue the obligatory Isiah Thomas jokes here).  I look at his departure as one of the failures of Bulls' management.

And Chandler's hands?  I think that is a joke.  The too-little-handed Chandler has become a stalwart defensive player not only for the US national team, but also one of the rising young teams in the league.  I look at Chandler's departure as another of the regrettable failure's of the Skiles/Paxson management tandem.

by alec on Nov 20, 2007 9:51 AM CST   0 recs

I'm sure he's great at crossword puzzles
but Jamal Crawford still sucks (ok, average), and hasn't changed in the least his whole career. I do notice in this early season that he's turning over the ball more. So there's that.

There are plenty of more valid things to criticise (like the handling of Chandler) than Jamal freaking Crawford.

And Chandler's hands weren't just some joke at a physical limitation, he was a turnover machine on offense. Otherwise nobody would care about his hands.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 20, 2007 9:56 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

If you mean
Crawford figured out how to shoot 40 percent, averages 5 assists to 4 turnovers and doesn't play defense I totally agree.

by CrashDavis on Nov 20, 2007 10:02 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

The best that can be said
about Jamal Crawford is that he's no Stephon Marbury.  And if Eddy Curry had worn purple he would be Grimmace's twin brother.  I loose no sleep over these guys wearing other jerseys.

Chandler was extremely prone to turnovers and fouls; both areas in which Ben Wallace was a big improvement last year.  In a few years, who knows?

Wrecked 'em? Damn near killed 'em!

by mdmnd9294 on Nov 20, 2007 10:13 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

What?
The only Jamal has going for him in the Knicks is the fact that their roster has a handful of players even worse than him.  Therefore, he spares himself the scorn because writers and fans are forced to pan Marbury, Jeffries, Curry, and Jerome James.

by NBA Observer on Nov 20, 2007 12:23 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

I'll defend Crawford
because I like Crawford.  He was always one of my favorite interviews.  I thought he was smart, funny and entertaining.  I thought he handled the incredible level of B.S. he faced from the Bulls with exceptional grace, especially considering he was such a young guy.

I realize none of this stacks up against your claims of his being an average at best basketball player.  However, I think it's also fair to argue that Crawford is practically a perfect example of the whole Jerry Krause "athlete over player" syndrome that Paxson saw it as his duty to immediately purge from the Bulls' roster.

But are the Bulls better off for having given up Crawford?  I say no.

by alec on Nov 20, 2007 10:14 AM CST   0 recs

click on 'reply to this' when replying.
Without giving up on Crawford they wouldn't have gotten under the cap. Which....was used on Ben Wallace, but that's a seperate argument.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 20, 2007 10:25 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

also
to me, saying Jamal Crawford is good because you like him is little different than Sam Smith saying Tyrus Thomas sucks because he doesn't like him.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 20, 2007 10:29 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

I did,
but my damn comcast has been having so many disruptions that I lose my link and then get it back without ever realizing it was gone.  My apologies.

by alec on Nov 20, 2007 10:48 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

because someone is a good interview
isn't a good reason to keep him on a team.

by KT on Nov 20, 2007 10:30 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

I read your statements
you wonder why you get repeatedly slammed here and then you say shit like this.  It boggles the mind.  The bulls would have been better off because Jamal gave interviews you liked?  WTF kind of asinine logic is that.  He's more of an example of undisciplined athlete that Pax had to rectify.  Does Crawford even start for that Knicks team?  When he even sniffs an all-star spot, I'll reconsider whether that was a good trade or not.
Nocioni-Khryapa in '08

by bullshooter on Nov 20, 2007 11:21 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

Here's the thing, bullshooter,
I know why I get slammed...and, between you and me, I don't mind it at all.  I think your opinions, and the  opinions of nearly every other poster on this site are good, solid, well thought out, enlightening even, and yes, often entertaining.  Even hscs, who routinely savages me--I'm as delighted as anyone else here to read his responses.  What else are we doing here?  Matt runs a great site, among the best of its or any type I read or post to.

And more to the point, can I not say I like Jamal Crawford because I found his interviews entertaining?  I think it's valid to observe that I was sorry to see him go for other than purely basketball reasons.    

by alec on Nov 20, 2007 11:37 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

sure you can say that
but if the pretext of the conversation is "how do the bulls become champions again," (which most of them are around here, at least implicitly) then arguing that Jamal shouldn't have been traded because he gave an interesting interview is silly.
Nocioni-Khryapa in '08

by bullshooter on Nov 20, 2007 11:54 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

Silly, I don't mind.
Truthfully, I believe the reason the Bulls got rid of Crawford was that he was asking for an undeservedly large contract.  The Bulls weren't willing the pay.  The Knicks were.  Done deal.

I think Paxson liked Crawford as a player, too, just not enough to pay him like a superstar...which he wasn't, and more than likely never will be.

by alec on Nov 20, 2007 12:01 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

Crawford is not a good player
He may give a fun interview, I don't know, but he is not a good basketball player.

Its fine to say he picked up the game late, but he plays stupid.  He has always played stupid, and I have never seen any indication that he will one day play smart.

Sure its fun to watch him three times a year when he scores 35, but he is not a guy who is going to help you win many games.

My favorite metric of a team's quality is the often underappreciated "win/loss record"

by preverbal on Nov 20, 2007 1:05 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

yeah but what's getting me
is that we're all here talking about the Bulls, yet you seem to want to talk about yourself and how you relate to others here. Which I don't want to read, since I couldn't care less about any of yous beyond your Bulls incites.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 20, 2007 1:04 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

Look it over.
It's almost strictly in response to personal attacks.    

by alec on Nov 20, 2007 1:13 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

seems to me you're opening yourself up
to personal attacks by injecting 'you' into everything you say.

Unsolicited, you've already made known you don't like Cheney/Rove, do futures trading, like to veer off in meandering odes to springtime,  made a super-bold prediction and loved telling everyone how right you are, and are whiny.

So take my word for it, nobody cares who you are. Just say something about the Bulls.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 20, 2007 1:25 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

and this latest example is the most egregious
because now valuable space is taken up talking about you and your history here. So congrats for baiting me into it. Next time just email.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 20, 2007 1:32 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

Eh... you're too hard on yourself
and perhaps even alec.

These diversion are occassionally enjoyable when all other talk has reverted to the form of "The Bulls currently suck! Who could they have kept/traded for that would have made them not currently suck?"

by CatBrains on Nov 20, 2007 1:38 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

Denver presents
an interesting analogue for the Bulls.  Marcus Camby and Kenyon Martin are Joakim Noah and Tyrus Thomas.   BG is our version of their Iverson.  Deng is our Carmelo.  And we both have utterly forgettable point guards.  The sad thing about this comparison is that the Bulls lag the Nuggets at every turn.

by alec on Nov 20, 2007 11:14 AM CST   0 recs

eh, interesting analogy
if anything, the Bulls are Denver "lite".  Noah IS not and WILL not be Camby though.  Camby can actually hit something that is further away than 3 feet.  I've seen him hit 3s, not to mention he has a pretty consistent jumper.

Gordon has the better outside shot, but has less success driving than AI has.  Definitely doesn't get to the foul line as much.

Martin and Thomas??  Eh, kinda similar if I squint my eyes really tight I guess...K-mart has a better and more consistent shot.

Carmelo can actually drive, dribble, and create his own shot...all things that Lu has trouble doing.  He IS getting better, but he's far from Carmelo.

by ScottieCartwright on Nov 20, 2007 12:13 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

Reading through your post
I suddenly realized that our guys lack all of the things that initially made me oppose to any Kobe trade talks.
Funny how 10 bad games changed my entire point of view.

by Outsidergua on Nov 20, 2007 3:50 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

Nuggets in the WC
My view is that this Nuggets roster in the EC would be a top 4 team easy.  They lack the point guard, but AI and Melo can create their own lanes to space the floor.  Nuggets lose when they shoot poorly just like Chicago though.  So in some areas, the teams are very similar.

Carmelo is a perennial MVP candidate.  Deng isn't anywhere close to this.

by NBA Observer on Nov 20, 2007 12:25 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

I really like their roster
and think they'd be the top team in the East. And they could be a top team in the West even, if things go right.

Luckily it hasn't gone right, as Atkins and Nene are hurt. And we should all be thankful Nene won't be around to toss around the Bulls bigs.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 20, 2007 1:01 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

Bigs,
Do we have any bigs playing for us? :)

by Outsidergua on Nov 20, 2007 3:52 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

Deng is a good guy who tries hard, but
Carmelo is a freak of nature, simple as that. He's bigger, stronger, has better vertical leap, and has an outside touch that simply can't be taught. I actually don't like his basketball style (even less his personal style), but I just can't deny that he's got future MVP written all over him, in terms of potential and possessing all of the tools.

Deng doesn't even have future All-Star written all over him; it's totally up for debate until fans start voting for him in droves.

Just to give you some perspective, BJ Armstrong made an All-Star team. So did John Starks. Remember Dana Barros?

The fact that Deng hasn't even whiffed an All-Star selection should indicate just how far off we are to compare him to Carmelo.

They play the same position, that's about it. Their games are completely opposite as well--Carmelo posts up, hits outside shots, and power slams; Deng hits primarily mid-range jumpers.

Different planets, plain and simple.

I thought the Bulls were back... turns out they're just a back end...

by bullhockey on