Kobe, so long for now. Keep in touch?
Pax says the trade talk is over for now. It's certainly nice that the season can begin.
But this past week has taught us some things about how Pax views his team. Clearly he did pursue Kobe Bryant, so to say he's content with this squad isn't accurate, and shouldn't be. While I have high hopes for them this season, they're not at a championship caliber yet, so there's no reason not to explore options that get you to that place. And I believe that adding Bryant as a supplement to what we have is a great way to do that.
But it's harder than Jay Mariotti thinks (as is a can opener, I'd imagine). Pax has said that despite reports, there's no untouchable on this team. Just because Luol Deng was reportedly off the table on most trade offers doesn't mean he thinks Luol is of equal value as a player to Kobe. It's because since the Bulls have no giant cap-filler contracts, any deal including Luol by definition has more value tied into it. Whether that means Thomas, Noah, or Thabo, combining those prospects, filler, and Luol Deng is too much value. That's not the same as saying Deng is untouchable.
The most clear evidence that he (and Ben Gordon) aren't safe is the lack of a contract extension. I speculated a few days ago that the Kobe rumors would possibly be used as leverage to get Gordon and Deng to sign what the Bulls had offered, and according to Gordon the Bulls didn't budge off that offer. And unless it was for that discounted rate, it's a benefit to keep them unsigned into restricted free agency. Signing now tremendously hampers what the Bulls can do in offering them for Bryant, and the sign/trade possibilities become much more viable when they're at restricted free agency.
But the biggest benefit is that the organization gets yet another year of evaluation. I tried to emphasize after opening night that one game means nothing. However, 20 games could. And while I can see some indications of possible improvements from the team, we'll know a lot more through the season if anything's different than in years past. More information means a better decision, either that they're both definite keepers on a championship-contending core, or trade bait.
And if being the subject of trade rumors really bothers them that much, then they should've taken the contract extension. Not only to be less tradeable for a couple years, but because if they're really that vulnerable (and I doubt they are, so don't shed a tear for their 'distractions'), it isn't very encouraging. I don't think it was quite necessary for Pax to stop trade talks just to make Deng and Gordon (and the whole team for that matter, since they've all been mentioned) feel better.
The likely real reason Pax cut off the talks for now is the more practical one: no deal to be made. However, in December when free agent signings become tradeable, you can add Nocioni, Joe Smith, or dozens of other players from other teams in multi-team scenarios. The options are then reassessed and Pax has even more evidence to trade for Bryant, or not.
There's no need to trade for Bryant only to need another move afterwards. This team is not only close, it'll be that way for several years to come. So they're one move away for that whole duration, until they make the move. So if it's this big, it better be good. A quality trade for Bryant now doesn't seem possible due to their team salary structure. But as we head into December, the trade deadline, and next offseason, it may be. And the rumors will keep flowing.
And if the thought of more rumor avalanches didn't make you feel bad enough, enjoy this nightmare fuel.
Last second update: If the real reason is that they don't want to pay the tax, EVER...then that's not cool.
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This is disturbing
Pax says the Bulls aren't going to pay the luxury tax.
I'll repeat my reaction from the other thread
I also won't completely believe it. Maybe that's just to make me feel better.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 1, 2007 11:22 PM CDT up reply actions
See San Antonio
But the other thing is to remember, if you get to luxury tax land, and you aren't a championship team, you limit the moves you can make.
by KT on Nov 1, 2007 11:43 PM CDT up reply actions
Bulls are built differently
Also, the Spurs wouldn't have paid Nocioni that much money. They got Noc-lite, Matt Bonner!
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 1, 2007 11:48 PM CDT up reply actions
Matt is right
Regarding the Tax. Jerry has made his money and then some off this team. Fans showed up when this team sucked. The team is at a point now where they are in position to make trades for players to put them in title contention year and out. With the up coming contracts of Deng/Gordon then TT/Noah its going to hard to not pay the tax. Thats to stay even to where they are now as a good but not great team. This is the same team that handed out big contracts to Chandler, Wallace and Noc. It pisses me off to think that part of the reason we may have not got deals done for KG or Gasol is because the owner wants his gravy train to continue. It pisses me off that Pax is willing to sacrifice cap room for Noc then balk when it comes time to get a major player. You can't have it both ways.
I don't buy it.
Matt Duhon played well. He also defended VC fairly well at points. Better than Deng. How do you let a lob pass fly over your head like that? See man and ball, man and ball. Luol needs to step up and play better on the road. Bulls can't depend on BG every night. Duhon was a 2nd round pick give him a break.
by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on Nov 1, 2007 11:10 PM CDT reply actions
he can go build up some other young team
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 1, 2007 11:14 PM CDT up reply actions
you're going to be surprised
I'd still rather see progress
I'm all for Duhon having a great year. He becomes more than an expiring contract that way :)
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 1, 2007 11:27 PM CDT up reply actions
that may wind up being his true position
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 1, 2007 11:48 PM CDT up reply actions
Dude when Sefo's not shooting silly string at me
by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on Nov 1, 2007 11:31 PM CDT up reply actions
yeah I suck at typing these days.
by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on Nov 1, 2007 11:32 PM CDT up reply actions
I think it's over until Dec 15th
From now on
I also LOL
I hope they kill the 76ers!
by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on Nov 1, 2007 11:27 PM CDT reply actions
I was going to post Skiles and
I'd like to see some Thomas Gardner action
by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on Nov 1, 2007 11:38 PM CDT reply actions
This puzzles me...
Who the cake is is up for debate, but Jackson reiterated owner Dr. Jerry Buss' statements that the team doesn't want to trade Kobe, but is willing to listen to whatever offers come their way.
http://my.lakers.com/blogs/2007/11/01/practice-wrap-up-thursday-110107/
by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on Nov 1, 2007 11:42 PM CDT reply actions
oh, and Sam did add this about the extensions
And, by the way, what's with Deng and Ben Gordon turning down $10-million-a-year extensions? Players always say they learn the NBA really is a business. Well, business is risk and reward. Both players believe they are worth more. Fine. That's how the system works. But they'll be restricted free agents after next season, and there's little doubt the Bulls will match any offer. Knowing that, few teams go after restricted free agents with big money anymore. Plus a team has to be under the salary cap to make an offer, and only the likes of Charlotte, the Clippers, Seattle, Minnesota and Philadelphia may be under the cap in upcoming seasons. Do they really want to start over on bad teams?
If he's at the Bucks/Bulls game Saturday, I'm going to ask him if he's cranky a lot lately.
well
His reasoning about the realities of restricted free agency are valid.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 1, 2007 11:49 PM CDT up reply actions
yep
by KT on Nov 1, 2007 11:54 PM CDT up reply actions
What's the largest cap room out there?
Deng
by LD9 on Nov 2, 2007 1:04 AM CDT up reply actions
i've said it before
Deng will get matched Gordon will not.
Gordon thinks he's the best player on the team ans will not settle for a contract similar to the inferior player who shares the backcourt with him.
by Chad @ Blog a Bull on Nov 2, 2007 1:52 AM CDT reply actions
oh
by Chad @ Blog a Bull on Nov 2, 2007 2:00 AM CDT up reply actions
Giving up on Noah already?
by haze on Nov 2, 2007 8:12 AM CDT up reply actions
Intelligent
You're wrong
by peterbredenberg on Nov 2, 2007 8:48 AM CDT up reply actions
I know nothing
And about Deng, fine. Let me restate: Deng will be resigned. Either a match or just getting the deal done. Gordon will be traded or will walk. The Bulls will not give him the money he wants and someone else will. The Bulls will not match.
by Chad @ Blog a Bull on Nov 2, 2007 12:20 PM CDT up reply actions
You know nothing
by peterbredenberg on Nov 2, 2007 2:25 PM CDT up reply actions
Chad, I think
Noah
You must be one of those knuckle head college kids who're so jealous of this charismatic young player that you can't help yourself jumping from one blog to the next trying to tear him down. Go check out my last post to your foolishly uninformed comments about Noah. There should be a rule that prevents morons like you posting on blogs. Do you look as stupid as your posts? I think so, douche bag.
sorry brah...
by Chad @ Blog a Bull on Nov 3, 2007 5:39 PM CDT up reply actions
See the video
It puts a lot of things in a context that the news articles don't. And KCs was the only articlet that said the bulls would never pay the luxury tax.
Here's another link to the full video
I must not have been listening correctly, I heard no mention of the luxury tax.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 2, 2007 4:52 PM CDT up reply actions
Whats our cap situation next year?
I think we would be over the luxury tax if we resign both deng and gordon. But only for the last 2 years of big bens contract. Unless he backloads the contracts but that hasnt been his M.O. so far.
by haze on Nov 2, 2007 8:14 AM CDT reply actions
He can backload
Kobe's max salary would be 27 mill, no one on the current Bulls can even come close to that kind of Max salary under the rules.
by KT on Nov 2, 2007 8:33 AM CDT up reply actions
Google is your friend
Nice thought.
Correct me if I"m wrong here...
SOOOO....
If I am correct on both things, and tell me if I'm wrong, Bron Bron will be a Cav for many more years.
by Chad @ Blog a Bull on Nov 2, 2007 12:23 PM CDT up reply actions
He won't want to be a cavalier
ok
Sound familiar?
by Chad @ Blog a Bull on Nov 2, 2007 12:33 PM CDT up reply actions
i dunno
by Chad @ Blog a Bull on Nov 2, 2007 12:49 PM CDT up reply actions
Kobe and Wade are about the same.
two different things
- when kobe was winning with Shaq, Shaq was the dominant player and Kobe was his pippen.
- when Shaq won with Miami, he was no longer the Shaq that we all knew. He was/is a very good player but not near what he was with the Lakers or Magic. DWade was the man with Shaq as the compliment.
Kobe's Batman just needs a Robin. I see Deng being that guy. Those two together would be lethal.
by Chad @ Blog a Bull on Nov 2, 2007 1:34 PM CDT up reply actions
Deng isn't near what Shaq was that year.
i agree
by Chad @ Blog a Bull on Nov 2, 2007 1:50 PM CDT up reply actions
So...
Kobe isn't as good as Duncan nor is Deng as good as Ginobili.
differenet postions
by Chad @ Blog a Bull on Nov 2, 2007 1:32 PM CDT up reply actions
yes he is
by Chad @ Blog a Bull on Nov 2, 2007 1:51 PM CDT up reply actions
Yes he is
Add to them a nice role player or two (which they have a aplenty) and it's easier to make Duncan look more consistent.
Tim D's a great player, but I wouldn't ever say he's hands down better than Kobe (who is a great player with slightly more skills than Tim D and is unfortunately on a weaker all around team)....
I think if Duncan and Kobe switched teams, the Lakers would struggle more (where's the scorers?) and the Spurs would be nearly just as effective.....I couldn't imagine a more dangerous trio than Bryant-Parker-Ginobli......
No I read them....
I think if Kobe had 2 other guys as solid as Parker and Ginobli, his stats would be better.....but he still wouldn't have the stats of a Duncan because TD does a lot of little things well (but does not have the peak of Kobe on his best days).
Overall we're arguing basically about 2 guys in the top 10 in the league, so it's hard to find fault either way.
For our club, I'd rather have Duncan than Bryant--mainly because we have so much depth that having a Duncan-Wallace defensive frontcourt would be stellar......and I think Duncan's more coachable for Skiles than Bryant....but if I was basing a team and could take anyone in the league regardless of salaries, etc. I'd take Kobe before Duncan....
I'd actually probably take D. Wade as my first overall pick even if it's silly cuz he's a Marquette guy like me and is fun to watch and for a guy with his ridiculous gifts is still pretty humble, I just hope he comes back from his knee/shoulder injuries.
Actually
The Lakers
THe main things hampering the Lakers is the horrible Kwame Brown signing. Had they kept Caron and drafted Bynum, they might be pretty good by this year:
Derek Fisher
Kobe Bryant
Caron Butler
Lamar Odom
Andrew Bynum
With Luke Walton, Jarvis Crittenton, Ronny Turiaf, Jordan Farmar, Chris Mihm, and Vladamir Radmonovic providing a solid bench.
That's a tough team, Fisher is a good PG with strong big moment last shot savviness (I purposely avoided using the word clutch).
Butler, Bryant and Odom would be even better byt his year with Caron's improvement the past 2 seasons.
Bynum has some lapses, so maybe Mihm starts for a bit, but I wouldn't be shocked if this Lakers lineup made a splash out West......
It's too bad they made the awful Brown trade. Brown's a cancer, who definately hasn't improved them in Caron's absence....
LeBron did re-up
I also think he may have it in the back of his mind to play in New York, but wants to allow a few years for that mess to clear itself up.
also
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 2, 2007 1:24 PM CDT up reply actions
Didn't one other player
I think
wade, melo, and bosh
by peterbredenberg on Nov 2, 2007 2:29 PM CDT up reply actions
melo
by ScottieCartwright on Nov 2, 2007 2:43 PM CDT up reply actions
what about
by ChrisRobin on Nov 2, 2007 3:02 PM CDT up reply actions
Glad to see that TT will be the starter tonight.
The difference maker.
I agree that
*nods*
Capt Kirk needs to command the Offense.
by AngryAsianAce on Nov 2, 2007 3:47 PM CDT up reply actions
Salary Cap thoughts
don't forget about
by peterbredenberg on Nov 2, 2007 9:42 AM CDT reply actions
Anyone see the Bulls website?
by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on Nov 2, 2007 10:22 AM CDT reply actions
Where trades don't happen.
by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on Nov 2, 2007 10:23 AM CDT up reply actions
Anyone else think
Some of the things he had said seemed kind of directed at Kobe and if Kobe takes it personal, which he could . . . he would balk on a Bulls deal
That's okay by me
Like Barkley said last night - you want out, get rid of the no trade clause, waive the trade kicker, make the whole thing easier to do.
by KT on Nov 2, 2007 10:45 AM CDT up reply actions
Moved Diary
Paxson stating that they are no longer interested in the Kobe trades is a great move on his part. First and more importantly, this calms down the locker room with players being worried about getting traded. Second of all, this also tells the Lakers that they are going to get less than they want if they are going to trade Kobe to Chicago. With Kobes no trade clause and the fact that he can walk away from the team next will make the Lakers trade him for not as much in return. Like the KG trade, except for Al Jefferson, the Celtics gave up absolutely no one of any value from their team. Even though the Bulls are a much deeper team I still think we should get up only and no one else then Ben Gordon as the main package for Kobe. If the Lakers start to go on a losing steak Kobe will get frustrated and Paxson could work out a trade without worrying our players. I think we should trade Ben Gordon, Adrian Griffin, Viktor Kryhapa, Mario Austin, Two Draft Picks, and some Cash. This of course will only work if the Lakers realize the hole they are in and need to rebuild. I would also add another player if necessary depending on who they are asking for. I really strongly do not want to give up Deng because I get this Jordan/Pippen to Kobe/Deng imagining in my mind. I also think Kirk would do a lot better because Kobe would be able to take on all the strong offensive guards while before Kirk would get screwed over because Gordon cant play defense for his life. Having Kobe would also force double teams which would halp Tyrus, Joe Smith, and maybe even Big Ben get some dunks helping out our inside game. I think we would be a championship caliber team if our roster looked like this:
PG: Kirk Hinrich backup: Chris Duhon
SG: Kobe Bryant backup: Thabo Sefolosha
SF: Luol Deng backup: Andres Nocioni
PF: Tyrus Thomas backup: Joe Smith
C: Ben Wallace backup: Joakim Noah
This trade might not happen in a million years but if we can trade Ben Gordon with a few other decent players and some of our draft picks for Kobe I think we would be a great contender for the east.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 3, 2007 10:24 AM CDT reply actions
Kobe will stay in LA,
Interesting what was in Kobes' head when he was watching our bad game against 76-ers,and then they
beat Suns badly.
I know it's only 2 games,but...
We MUST win today!

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