I'll keep saying it's early until it's too late
Saturday night's debacle against the Raptor was a perfect game to not watch, and I obliged for the most part. After seeing the first sub-20-point quarter you get a good idea of how the game's going to go. It would've been nice to see some of what happened in the season's only win carry over, but the league doesn't really work that way. Either you're good or bad on a night, and momentum is assessed after the fact. Right now the Bulls still are bad, and mostly because their best players remain as such.
There's a lot of discussion over what the team can do, but I don't see any real solutions besides just relying on a regression to the mean. Nearly every individual player is doing worse than expected, and except in the case of Wallace it's hard to believe that they've forgotten how to play.
So in terms of minor changes, Skiles' hockey line-change on Saturday wasn't going to work (not that keeping starters in that night would), and for the same reason I don't see promoting worse players to the starting lineup helping much. Firing the coach rarely works midseason (even if it did 'work' I don't see it being because of the new guy), and I don't see any 'tuning out' or upcoming mutiny on the horizon so I can't endorse a desperation move.
Perhaps getting out of town will help galvanize the team, but any discussion of the merits of booing is more of a way for fans to think they matter more then they do. I don't even want Bryant (at 'any cost', anyway), but if I was at Saturday's game, the frustration (and just to be an asshole) I'd likely join in on a Kobe chant, or at least boo like crazy. It shouldn't effect them and it likely (hopefully) doesn't, so I'll place getting booed in along with being in trade talks and not getting contract extensions all in one big bucket of who cares.
They don't need a spark, they just get their core guys playing better. Wishin' and hopin' is all that can be done on that front, not just from the fans (come on, the boos? really?) but the organization as well. Because if anything, messing around with the lineup or coach will be pulling the plug on this team this season, and indicating a big-picture problem with this regime. I'm not ready to concede that yet.
And this shit start even hurts the "go get him, boy" crowd, as a bunch of former-prospects around Kobe Bryant isn't much to cheer for either. Not to mention he likely wouldn't want to be a part of it in the first place.
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oh, and again
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
Nov 11, 2007 8:52 PM CST
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yes we can
by KT on
Nov 11, 2007 9:03 PM CST
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I actually think putting in the subs was a good
by bullshooter on
Nov 11, 2007 9:09 PM CST
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Your comments "rarely"
But still the possibility exists that it can work!
The Golden State Warriors bought out Mike Montgomery's contract and hired Don Nelson to take over the team again. Nelson's Warriors won their final five regular season games and qualified for the 2006/07 playoffs. The rest is history.
Montgomery really is not so difference from Skiles. His style of play was against his players strengths. Definitely against his pg Barron Davis strengths.
some quotes during the period after Montgomery firing..
"There was little faith on the team in the job Montgomery was doing with the Warriors. I hadn't heard that something was about to happen right now, but had been told all along to not be surprised if the team parted ways with Mike. Now, ESPN reports that the likely replacement is Don Nelson. It's tough to say how well he and Baron Davis will get along when it comes to playing style and decisions on the floor".
Well Nelson and Davis seem to have work it out.
Matt, before and if you travel here, this is not a endorsement to bring back Cartwright or the other Krause college coach guy.
by exult463 on
Nov 11, 2007 9:17 PM CST
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Nelson was hired before the 2006-2007 season
by tacojohn on
Nov 11, 2007 9:22 PM CST
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The Transistion has
by exult463 on
Nov 11, 2007 9:36 PM CST
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Consider the Bulls have made win-now investments
Plus isn't the idea that you don't promote from within when you don't like how things are going?
by tacojohn on
Nov 11, 2007 10:02 PM CST
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And even though I despise him
I hate Karl though because of how he nearly ruined the Bucks (I am a Marquette guy living in Milwaukee at the time) so please refrain from me using him as an example as a good mid season coach swap.
by majoyenrac on
Nov 12, 2007 12:06 AM CST
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What are you talking about
And Getting hot in the second half is a mirage. Teams start dumping in earnest and it puffs up records, bulls included. George Karl is nothing special.
by bullshooter on
Nov 12, 2007 8:55 AM CST
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The facts speak for themselves....
I hate Karl, so screw it anyway, but the Nuggetts totally turned that season around after Karl came on, I mean I believe they were pretty far under .500 and ended up a decent playoff opponent...
Also, I think getting hot the last 10-15 games is a mirage, not the entire second half of the season. He coached them to a 32-8 record. Had they lost to a middling playoff team like say the Wizards that year, then yes you could say well it was a mirage, but the Spurs are and have been the toughest competitor in the league the past 6-7 years even when they don't win it all.....
I mean, hell if the Bulls could go 32-8 with a coaching change (a 66 win season pace) I think we'd all be happy, and Karl did so with a team that was much less talented than it is now.
I hate the guy, but I'm just citing that as an example of a mid year coaching change that more than worked.
by majoyenrac on
Nov 12, 2007 9:10 AM CST
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Allen Iverson help too
by AngryAsianAce on
Nov 12, 2007 8:25 PM CST
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Yes Now he does....
by majoyenrac on
Nov 13, 2007 10:10 AM CST
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win-now investments
I primarily think Skiles is a problem, not so much that the whole ship is sinking, therefore I see an advantage to promoting within. Adams sounds like a good alternative. Maybe he can prove he is a bonafide head coach in the NBA during this period. If you don't like him, then what about Bill Laimbeer (2 NBA titles and 2 WNBA titles) for a first time NBA coach.
I think keeping Skiles when we all know he will be fired or his contract not renewed is a waste of precious time.
by exult463 on
Nov 12, 2007 12:06 AM CST
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I don't care if the Bulls
by 1958ChiTown on
Nov 11, 2007 10:06 PM CST
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Yeah the Kobe Bryant chants are starting to
by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on
Nov 11, 2007 9:26 PM CST
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You know what's interesting
by bullshooter on
Nov 11, 2007 9:40 PM CST
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Don't remember seeing it before
Maybe the unintended benefit of the team playing so poorly last night is that it left Mariotti speechless?
by wjb1492 on
Nov 11, 2007 9:47 PM CST
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That'd almost be worth it
I don't know about Deng at the 2 either. I think one of Deng's problems is he's trying to do too much and the postup thing really isn't working yet. Putting him at 2 is just one more thing for him to try to adjust to and I'm not sure that he is that much more capable handling the ball than BG is.
The other thing is maybe sit Kirk out until his left hand heals up. It's obviously affecting his shooting.
by bullshooter on
Nov 11, 2007 9:57 PM CST
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the only good reason
by hscs on
Nov 11, 2007 10:01 PM CST
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you mean Sam Smith's fantasy rotations?
by bullshooter on
Nov 11, 2007 10:04 PM CST
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jumpers
I'm no Sam Smith fan, but I wouldn't qualify T2's 7-for-23 on "jumpers" (his makes including a few 5' dinks) as reason to write home. 30% is surely a sign of his supposed off-season jump shot improvement that had us drooling all summer...whatever.
He's been getting to the hoop and can jump out of the gym. Bulls fans have been knowing this since last year; LSU fans have been knowing this longer.
Relative to the slow-starting Core, T2 is looking lights-out right now. I just wouldn't go crowning him yet.
by bpa on
Nov 12, 2007 11:48 AM CST
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can i get a link
by bullshooter on
Nov 12, 2007 12:00 PM CST
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I don't think anyone is "crowning"
I simply think that some people are arguing it would be assinine to BENCH Tyrus, as Smith foolishly suggests, when he has been one of the few positive contributors thus far.
Tyrus has improved far more than your flippant commentary suggests. Even Skiles acknowledged it recently. He is playing better team defense, he has cut down on unnecessary fouls, his ball handling has improved, his passing and court vision have improved, his focus has improved, and, yes, his jump shooting has improved, though everyone recognizes he isn't going to beat Ray Allen in a game of "around the world" any time soon.
by 1958ChiTown on
Nov 12, 2007 12:04 PM CST
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7 for 23 is very misleading
Here look at his actual shot chart before jumping in bed with Sammy.
http://www.nba.com/hotzones/index.html?team=bulls&player=tyrus_thomas&season=22007&split =
by Scotter on
Nov 12, 2007 12:13 PM CST
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I'm not crowning him
by bullshooter on
Nov 12, 2007 12:14 PM CST
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Excuse my french, but
Every article is simply an opportunity for him to repeatedly lambaste Tyrus, who has been one of the few bright spots during the early season. He hasn't played perfectly, but he is improving. In this particular trenchant opus, Smith ingeniously suggests that th Bulls bench Tyrus because Thomas allegedly can't "play in the spotlight." Oh, and the Bulls should have taken Aldridge, blah blah blah.
by 1958ChiTown on
Nov 11, 2007 10:03 PM CST
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I don't get that
by bullshooter on
Nov 11, 2007 10:06 PM CST
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Here is a new article from K.C. at the Trib
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/cs-071111bulls,1,2862639.story?page=2&ctrack=3&cset=tru e
by 1958ChiTown on
Nov 11, 2007 10:19 PM CST
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Statistical Argument for Not Panicking
Notable:
Phoenix and Dallas opened 1-5, Dallas 1-5 too.
Sac, Atl, Por 4-2
There is still hope. I'm sure Sbulls could find a correlation with something else that seems way more trivial that is stronger. Or a negative correlation with something that would seem to be a negative.
GO BULLS!
by cubbybear on
Nov 11, 2007 10:21 PM CST
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Correction
by cubbybear on
Nov 11, 2007 10:25 PM CST
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I don't like booing.
This isn't baseball where it's these 2-minute/2-second confrontations. It takes a LOT more focus and concentration to be "on" during a basketball game.
There are few players like (presumably) Jordan or Shaq who can combine great talent with an ability to constantly focus during a game. However, there are still plenty of players who suck who probably don't give a shit about the booing.
Anyway, there's no way to quantify, and really no way to know, if this stuff affects the players. That doesn't mean that it doesn't. It doesn't mean that the players aren't still really, really good players if it does. Paxson said the trade talks affected him when he played.
How? Are we sure? I don't know. But that's probably the best 'evidence' we have on whether it does. I do, however, subscribe to the idea that if it does affect the players, that it affects the vast majority of them negatively. The only good booing does (imo) is it helps relieve fan frustration. I think that's lame.
by tyger1147 on
Nov 11, 2007 10:57 PM CST
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Oh PUH-lease!!!
So, the fans are disappointed with the team's performance thus far: rightly so! Thus far, they STINK to high heaven!
There are two ways that off-court stuff can affect a player: either than get angry, and play harder... or they sulk, and play poorly.
If it's the latter, don't get petulant & whine/moan/bitch to media or fans (that's just going to earn the increased ire of those two bodies)... find some way to get through it.
Only one thing to say to those players currently whining: grow a pair.
by withmalice on
Nov 11, 2007 11:20 PM CST
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If you didn't know this team was mentally weak
by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on
Nov 11, 2007 11:25 PM CST
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Yawn... How long
One moment, the Bulls suck, the next "it's-not-that-bad".
Get a grip... and if you don't want a hammering, don't lead with your chin.
by withmalice on
Nov 12, 2007 12:46 AM CST
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Clean your vagina.
by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on
Nov 12, 2007 12:58 AM CST
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Yawning constantly
Pathetic, sycophantic commentary the one moment - pathetic, juvenile profanity the next.
Grow up kid.
by withmalice on
Nov 12, 2007 1:05 AM CST
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This could help me?
I find your anger odd. This is the first time I have read anything you wrote and I hope it's the last my friend cause if I have confused you well then I'm so sorry. Whatever I can do to help you through your anger just let me know. I can't be boring though because boring lacks interest (whether good or bad) and if what I wrote didn't have interest well then I don't think you would have read what I wrote. Personally I think I'm one of the most interesting people I know.
by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on
Nov 12, 2007 1:22 AM CST
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Ok... maybe confused me
If it wasn't aimed at me, forgive me my kneejerk reaction. Jumped the gun I guess...
Even so - pretty poor comment anyway... perhaps we both could think a lil' first.
by withmalice on
Nov 12, 2007 1:48 AM CST
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no that wasn't towards anyone.....
by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on
Nov 12, 2007 1:55 AM CST
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Get more grounded sir...
http://with-malice.com/2007/11/12/mo-for-movember/
by withmalice on
Nov 12, 2007 4:58 AM CST
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The Internets
by AngryAsianAce on
Nov 12, 2007 8:38 PM CST
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don'tmess with guys...
by Lt.Dan on
Nov 12, 2007 10:04 PM CST
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But why the hell does that matter?
Sure, it's fine to boo, but I think, as part of the home-court advantage, fans should help, not hurt the teams. The players aren't affected by opposing fans because they've been part of that their whole life. But how many players from Kansas, Duke, UConn and Florida have ever been booed at home?
by tyger1147 on
Nov 12, 2007 8:19 AM CST
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Jay Williams salutes you
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
Nov 12, 2007 11:42 AM CST
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lol "Weeded" Out
by AngryAsianAce on
Nov 12, 2007 8:39 PM CST
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Dusty Baker salutes you
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
Nov 12, 2007 12:56 AM CST
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I don't get it.
by tyger1147 on
Nov 12, 2007 8:20 AM CST
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Booing and trade talks are two entirely different
Imagine if I walked into a regular white collar employee's office and told him that he might be required to imminently work for a new company in a new city with an entirely new boss and co-workers. Oh, and he has absolutely no control over his ultimate destination. It's doutbful that the employee would be as productive in the short term. That sort of profound uncertanty affects everyone. Yes, they are professional athletes, but they are still humans subject to the full and natural range of human emotions. Being in the NBA doesn't convert them into cyborgs.
Boos, on the other hand, are a pretty ephemeral, minor disraction. They literally last one minute or less and don't really change anything significant about the player's life or existence. They are a form of mild rebuke that one should be able to forget quickly.
by 1958ChiTown on
Nov 12, 2007 11:02 AM CST
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1958 BUT ARE YOU MAKING
That's the huge difference in your argument.
Guys making that kind of money (more than many of the really big CEO's, etc) should be able to play hard under any circumstances.....they've got a pretty easy life as all of them if they managed their money could likely quit after 1 year. Even the 15th roster man could live a lifetime on his annual salary (just not an NBA styled lifetime).
It's a great gig.
by majoyenrac on
Nov 12, 2007 11:51 AM CST
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Everything is relative when it comes to the human
by Scotter on
Nov 12, 2007 12:19 PM CST
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Yeah No I agree and disagree
by majoyenrac on
Nov 12, 2007 12:50 PM CST
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I agree about the distinction.
While I'm not a fan of one person or the other because of their personality (except Roger Clemens), it doesn't mean that I think they're detached automaton.
I mean, if one believes they can feed off a home crowd's enthusiasm, why wouldn't booing affect them in a similar but opposite fashion?
by tyger1147 on
Nov 12, 2007 12:15 PM CST
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see my post above
Although I know it from a human perspective, I don't think we should count out the money these guys make......
by majoyenrac on
Nov 12, 2007 12:51 PM CST
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It's gotten so bad........
by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on
Nov 11, 2007 11:23 PM CST
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Whats
I wouldn't mind him as the head coach.
by eross226 on
Nov 12, 2007 12:30 AM CST
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Probably doing the same thing he always does
by Big D on
Nov 12, 2007 12:47 AM CST
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Do you think
by withmalice on
Nov 12, 2007 1:07 AM CST
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The Bulls need passion kinda like this...
by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on
Nov 12, 2007 1:27 AM CST
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That's a great video
by preverbal on
Nov 12, 2007 4:18 PM CST
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you know that reminds me of?
by bullshooter on
Nov 12, 2007 4:29 PM CST
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Bullshooter - you are correct I have lost my mo-jo
by chgobr on
Nov 12, 2007 5:36 PM CST
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Here's hoping
by bullshooter on
Nov 12, 2007 7:42 PM CST
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There is no quick fix
Kirk's defense on the pick and roll has been awful. He leaks too much giving the point guard space, has no height to catch up with a perimeter shooting big man, and he's trying to protect the dribble penetration when he knows that behind him are two of the better shot blockers in the NBA. He's playing defense like he's the only Bulls player out there.
Chicago's point differential is -9.7. They are getting off 7 more shots than their opponents. They are a -3 in rebounding differential, but +2 in offensive rebounding differential. This is where Skiles' coaching is coming into question.
He is notorious for benching players for bad defense and ill advised passes that turn the ball over on offense. What he needs to employ is a rotation that will increase the team FG%. He can do that with a lineup that attacks the basket. Nocioni came out in the 2nd half of the Raptor game and took it straight at Bargnani. He picked up three fouls in 5 minutes. Noc was yielding 5 inches to Bargnani. Where was the scouting report? Where's the coaching here? You can remove chess pieces from the board with strategy.
I don't know if Griffin is healthy, but he can post up guards. None of our other guards can do this. When you look around the league, winning teams have a guard that will go into the post to exploit matchup problems.
The sad thing is the circus trip is always hard because the Western Conference doesn't play any defense and the Bulls aren't going to outscore anyone. The Suns don't like to foul so the gameplan should call for attacking the basket on every possession. Posting up Shawn Marion to get him into foul trouble is key.
by NBA Observer on
Nov 12, 2007 8:42 AM CST
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i'm with Matt
These guys have to start knocking down some shots, plain and simple. No lineup change is going to help right now.
The road trip might do them some good. There are at least a few pencil-in wins to be had:
Clippers - Mobley is out injured so he won't be there to take apart and completely destroy Kirk. Plus you have the revenge factor. The Clips will be overconfident from their win last week.
Lakers - They aren't that good, we can take this one. This game will be interesting to watch. The whole Kobe saga will come to a head that night with everyone (Kobe, BG, Lu) showcasing for their potential new team :-) j/k
NY - Believe it or not the Knicks ARE improved but I still think we should come outta NY with a win. I'm intrigued by the Wallace/Thomas vs. Curry/Randolph matchup. If he doesn't already have it back by this game, BG will have his shooting eye, as he usually plays pretty decent in NY. Look for him to torch the Isaiah-ettes.
Raptors - Simply put, we now owe them one. Revenge factor will be heavy in this game. Look for Skiles to blow a gasket and have a complete meltdown if they play the same way they did in the loss.
Not too confident about the Phoenix and Denver games. Maybe we can catch them sleeping? Doubt it, but anything can happen.
Let's hope we're all singing a different tune by this time next week.
by ScottieCartwright on
Nov 12, 2007 8:55 AM CST
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ditto to your second section
Shooting 45% likely gives us wins against Philly, Milwaukee and the Clippers. That puts us with a 4-2 start...and no one's panicking.
1-5 is discouraging, but our average point differential isn't -30. I mean, we're a jump shooting team that's shooting sub par and losing relatively close games (Toronto excluded).
We need to move without the ball, create inside opportunities cutting to the basket and increase our fast break opportunities....all ways to nurse a low FG%.
by bpa on
Nov 12, 2007 12:02 PM CST
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I never want to hear Luol, Skiles, or Noah say
So memo to the Bull players and coaches...
PLAY BETTER AND GET OVER IT!
by RogersPark Kris on
Nov 12, 2007 10:19 AM CST
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Show me where Lu
Maybe Matt can list the roster on the side so people can spell their names correctly. It's spelled Hinrich.
by sue369 on
Nov 12, 2007 10:48 AM CST
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...and I think
by alec on
Nov 12, 2007 10:58 AM CST
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Nice way to change the focus of the post
by RogersPark Kris on
Nov 12, 2007 11:02 AM CST
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Again you're saying,
by sue369 on
Nov 12, 2007 12:58 PM CST
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We can go back and forth about this forever
''For some of the fans to go and talk about Kobe Bryant -- like screaming 'Kobe!' -- to me, that was kind of different because they wouldn't do that in college,''
He's saying that fans should not be using these derogatory chants and that college fans wouldn't do this. A statement that is completely rediculous. Are you happy? Didn't know we had to site all our statements in here. I know you are completely against booing players in the first place but your obvious bias is getting annoying.
Here's another one from Scott Skiles...
"I never want to do that. On a night when the boo-birds are out I don't want to embarrass the group like that,"
So because of the "boo birds", Skiles didn't want to play the starters. LOL, so don't boo or they might bench the starters.
Try creating a post that doesn't revolve around arguing about fruitless semantics.
by RogersPark Kris on
Nov 12, 2007 1:26 PM CST
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Because of the "boo birds"
by wjb1492 on
Nov 12, 2007 1:32 PM CST
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Whether or not
by sue369 on
Nov 12, 2007 1:43 PM CST
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Won't be any Kobe chants on the road
by vlad001 on
Nov 12, 2007 11:29 AM CST
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There's an excuse to everything
by Option27 on
Nov 12, 2007 11:41 AM CST
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Who do you want to win?
by bashuck on
Nov 12, 2007 5:19 PM CST
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The only reason Lu
And the only reason he or any athlete says the booing bothers them is that if they expressed their true feelings, which I'd almost guarantee would be something along the lines of "Who gives a shit if they boo?" the fans would viciously turn on them, the team would be forced to trade them, they'd have to take a pay cut because no team can tolerate a player not playing the PR game, they'd lose endorsement money and eventually get drummed out of the league.
So the player says (when asked), "Yeah, that booing, it hurts, but I understand the fans' disappointment and we just gotta play better...blah, blah, blah."
by alec on
Nov 12, 2007 1:29 PM CST
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The PER of the Bulls starters through 7 games...
Tyrus Thomas - 14.33
Luol Deng - 13.65
Ben Gordon - 11.43
Kirk Hinrich - 7.73
Ben Wallace - 6.35
by 1958ChiTown on
Nov 12, 2007 5:48 PM CST
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League Average =15
by alec on
Nov 12, 2007 9:00 PM CST
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It's too goddamn early!!!!!!!!!!!
by snley on
Nov 12, 2007 9:16 PM CST
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turnaround will happen against the LA Lakers
regaurdless of the outcome against the Suns, the Bulls will lose to the Clippers. they are one of three teams (Raptors, Clippers, Nets) that own the Bulls.
But against the Lakers, the Bulls could make a statement against Kobe Bryant, who is I am sure well aware that the fans of hisp opponent have been chanting his name. If the Bulls are able to beat Kobe and his Lakers, I honestly think the team will gain a ton of confidence, proving to the back of their own minds that they dont need Kobe. Alot of good could come out of the game.
by hongydraw on
Nov 13, 2007 12:36 AM CST
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LOL!
- you figure that Kobe won't be out to make a statement too? Frankly, I know which player(s) are more effective within that scenario.
- second... I think the chants will motivate Kobe too...
by withmalice on
Nov 13, 2007 12:50 AM CST
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Dude if they keep sucking like this....
When do the Lakers play in Chicago?
by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on
Nov 13, 2007 11:26 PM CST
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