Pax: "There's not a deal to be done"

bye bye Kobe fan club

The greatest individual non-trade performance of all time in the universe.

by hscs on Nov 1, 2007 2:58 PM CDT reply actions

Hey atleast we have

Ben Wallace and he can air ball free throws in clutch moments.

''This whole parties out of control!''-Moose

by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on Nov 1, 2007 2:58 PM CDT reply actions

remember in atl

when he hit those 2 ft's to go into ot....classic

by milesgmsu on Nov 1, 2007 3:25 PM CDT up reply actions

or Game 4 of the first round last year?

When he nailed them to seal the sweep? I remember chanting for him in Miami watching the front running heat fans leave.

by SRQman on Nov 1, 2007 10:54 PM CDT up reply actions

it was fun while it lasted

at least it was nice to dream what it would be like to have "superstar" on this team

by ScottieCartwright on Nov 1, 2007 3:00 PM CDT reply actions

cautious! He will only consider a deal if 1) it's for somebody else's player on his roster, or if 2) the other team is willing to GIVE him a player in a fire sale. What's wrong with a deal that benefits both teams? No matter how the Kobe deal eventually wirks itself out, the Lakers will be the loser. Does Paxson have to crush them in order to budge? What an idiot!

by alec on Nov 1, 2007 3:02 PM CDT reply actions

when did he ever trade

in a fire sale?

by milesgmsu on Nov 1, 2007 3:25 PM CDT up reply actions

The evil media kills the trade.

Not sure what he means. I think Kobe has second thoughts. Like he always does.

''This whole parties out of control!''-Moose

by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on Nov 1, 2007 3:03 PM CDT reply actions

Depression sets in

''This whole parties out of control!''-Moose

by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on Nov 1, 2007 3:04 PM CDT reply actions

I don't buy it

And no one else should.

Pax is pretty much putting things to rest . . . for now!

He would be stupid to say that the Kobe deal ain't gonna happen ever. He simply just slammed the door on it for now.

I think we all pretty much know the talks are gonna continue again either in December or close to the trading deadline.

Pax knows what he's doing even if it means lying to the media.

He also knows that once the Lakers start struggling, which they are . . they'll get more desperate to make a deal.

So for now, yeah the deal is dead. But anyone that thinks it's dead forever should wake up.

And the Bulls players know this too by the way. I still see it as being a distraction.

by Option27 on Nov 1, 2007 3:05 PM CDT reply actions

I don't think it's a distraction either way

and yes, re-open things in December when Noc and Smith (and a lot of others around the league) are tradeable.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 1, 2007 3:07 PM CDT up reply actions

So if you're one of the Bulls players mentioned

You honestly think the trade is dead? C'mon now, they're not fools. As long as Kobe is out there, everyone on the Bulls that the Lakers are targetting are gonna have it on their minds

by Option27 on Nov 1, 2007 3:09 PM CDT up reply actions

They won't admit it

They say all the right things but there is no doubt that they think about it

by Option27 on Nov 1, 2007 3:10 PM CDT up reply actions

I know you're

probably right. But this just pisses me off so much. Paxson is such a baby.

by alec on Nov 1, 2007 3:09 PM CDT up reply actions

What, then

are the Kobe criers?

by marionette on Nov 1, 2007 3:13 PM CDT up reply actions

Paxson is a

gutless baby. He needs to have a trade weighted so heavily in his favor before he'll dip his toe in the water.

by alec on Nov 1, 2007 3:16 PM CDT up reply actions

What in God's name are you talking about?

Getting Kobe in return for most of our best players won't get the Bulls closer to a championship.

by 1958ChiTown on Nov 1, 2007 3:21 PM CDT up reply actions

Would you rather have Isiah?

It gets frustrating sometimes, especially with all the trade talk put out there by the irresponsible hacks at espn.com, but things could be much worse. As much as I would love to see Kobe come to the Bulls, I'm glad Paxson is holding out for the best deal possible. The longer he waits, the more likely the trade will be strongly in the Bulls favor. The Kobe trade, if/when it happens, should be about making the Bulls one of the best teams in the NBA, not just one of the best teams in their conference, which they already are. Ask the Bears and Cubs how things work out when you set lower expectations just to beat out your mediocre direct competition. I'd much rather have someone cautious like Paxson than have a GM who makes huge mistakes only to try to correct them with even bigger mistakes.

by snley on Nov 1, 2007 6:25 PM CDT up reply actions

Pax is pretty much putting things to rest

Exactly.
He's doing what any GM SHOULD do in this situation if he's not pulling the trigger RIGHT NOW: Stop the madness of speculation.

But you're right Opt - the deal WILL be revisited at some point - whether NOW or LATER.

Is it spring training yet?

by Bluelou on Nov 1, 2007 3:16 PM CDT up reply actions

We can wait

and see,what we can do with out KB.Paxson did a right thing for his team.We are not desperate to get Kobe.And we will see how Lakers will handle Kobegate.I'm sure they will be happy to get PJ,Nocioni,Gordon,and 1-st peak in December.They would be in a worse situation then,and we will get Kobe as a Christmas Gift.
Time is working for Da Bulls!

by Azabullsfan on Nov 1, 2007 3:07 PM CDT reply actions

ahhhhhhhhhhhhh

this sucks. This fucked up all my Bulls excitement.

''This whole parties out of control!''-Moose

by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on Nov 1, 2007 3:11 PM CDT reply actions

Ben Wallace really needs to go.

That was a bad sign plan a simple. Sorry I would rather have Tyson.

''This whole parties out of control!''-Moose

by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on Nov 1, 2007 3:12 PM CDT reply actions

joejoe, I swear to god

you can pause and get all your jarbled thoughts into one comment, ya know?

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 1, 2007 3:17 PM CDT up reply actions

Thank God.

Paxson is wise. He couldn't let the distraction hover over the team without any comment.

Let's play some basketball.

by 1958ChiTown on Nov 1, 2007 3:17 PM CDT reply actions

Damn ESPN is slow to catch on.

''This whole parties out of control!''-Moose

by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on Nov 1, 2007 3:21 PM CDT reply actions

I hear

Paxson's asking that the retroactive rights to Shaq get thrown in the deal before he'll revisit it.

by alec on Nov 1, 2007 3:22 PM CDT reply actions

I think the Lakers

need to remind Kobe they are his employer and he is getting paid very well to produce for them. Go out and get a couple of good players to compliment him and call it good enough until his contract is up. God I hate whiney men.

Racecar spelled backwards is racecar.

by sue369 on Nov 1, 2007 3:22 PM CDT reply actions

Sue, I think

you'd forgive Kobe if he came to the team...unless you're referring to me, that is.

by alec on Nov 1, 2007 3:26 PM CDT up reply actions

Alec

I hate Kobe.

Racecar spelled backwards is racecar.

by sue369 on Nov 1, 2007 3:29 PM CDT up reply actions

don't bait eachother

and alec, just stop posting for a few hours.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 1, 2007 3:31 PM CDT up reply actions

I can

appreciate that. Certainly, there are plenty of reasons not to like the guy. Maybe I'll just think about those for a while. It might help me get over my frustration at Paxson for passing on this deal. But as long as Matt keeps this thread current I'll probably still post to it.

by alec on Nov 1, 2007 3:35 PM CDT up reply actions

Wow...

I wish I knew what year you lived in.

You do know this is 2007.

You do know that stars call the shots, right?

You do know that Michael would have pulled the same shit if the Bull fucked him over the way the Lakers fucked Kobe. Kobe, doesn't want to leave L.A. Kobe wants to play for a team that is willing to bring in the parts to win. L.A. has shown that they are not.

by Chad @ Blog a Bull on Nov 1, 2007 4:11 PM CDT up reply actions

I really don't

give a damn what Kobe does or does not want just as I don't care what you have to say. I don't like Kobe so I am happy. If you are not that is your problem.

Racecar spelled backwards is racecar.

by sue369 on Nov 1, 2007 4:23 PM CDT up reply actions

I see why you won't like him..

you prefer average stiffs like Kirky over superstars.

by Chad @ Blog a Bull on Nov 1, 2007 4:25 PM CDT up reply actions

You don't see

anything. Kirk has nothing to do with this. I have never liked Kobe. Ever.

Racecar spelled backwards is racecar.

by sue369 on Nov 1, 2007 4:30 PM CDT up reply actions

let's not make this

Chad comprehenshion day.

we all know you like Kirk Hinrich, like him more than the Bulls, and say as much quite often.

No need to reiterate it to every nitwit who comes in and freaks out.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 1, 2007 4:45 PM CDT up reply actions

Did you even

read what I said? I didn't say anything about liking Kirk.

Racecar spelled backwards is racecar.

by sue369 on Nov 1, 2007 7:04 PM CDT up reply actions

matt

can u take a cue from pax and delete anythread wit kobe in it now thaaaaaanks

by milesgmsu on Nov 1, 2007 3:24 PM CDT reply actions

Let's all remember that report

The Lakers are high on Nocioni

If there is any truth to the report, that means it will come up again in Dec most likely

by Option27 on Nov 1, 2007 3:27 PM CDT reply actions

That report was like christmas morning

so yeah, I do remember it. :)

It's not just about Noc, the whole league will be in play by then. Remember, Noc is a base-year player himself (like Hinrich), so including him is complicated even after December 15th

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 1, 2007 3:29 PM CDT up reply actions

this isn't over

because if it were, then the contract no-signings would be all for naught...there's a reason that BG and Lu weren't extended...and my guess is that it wasn't just a money issue.

by ScottieCartwright on Nov 1, 2007 3:29 PM CDT reply actions

I agree on that much

I think the 'low-ball' offer was Pax saying he wanted to remain flexible in a trade situation, so for the team to give up that flexibility you take the pay cut.

Don't tell Sam Smith they turned down $10m though, he may weep into his bowl of shredded wheat.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 1, 2007 3:30 PM CDT up reply actions

agree

Matt you said it before I did but I do think Pax offered less then they would have normally to remain more flexible for future trades

By not signing Deng and Gordon and not trading Pax can watch a very good team get to playoffs and evaluate all players for another valuable year and Bulls franchise will be sucess this year regardless. Next summer then becomes the key year and Bulls have some flexibility without too much downside as it seems there are not teams that can come in and steal Deng / BenG by overpaying. At end of year Bulls will only have few long term big contracts and better idea of Thomas / Noah / Thabo as they then address roster, including Deng / Gordon

by NY Chicago Fan on Nov 1, 2007 3:44 PM CDT up reply actions

clarify - sucess

I meant above that Bulls Franschise will be finiancially a sucess and a good one in managements eyes. They might not get to finals like us fans would like but for Bulls management as long as they are top 4 seed and battle well in 2nd round or conf finals then Bulls year will be probably considered sucessful behind closed doors as they understand only 1 team can make it out of East to finals

by NY Chicago Fan on Nov 1, 2007 3:48 PM CDT up reply actions

if mgmt

thinks like that...then they should all be fired

by ScottieCartwright on Nov 1, 2007 3:53 PM CDT up reply actions

I'm a realist

Basketball is entertainment and a game I love to play but the Bulls aren't going to do things just because we want them to, its still a business with millions of dollars involved

and I'm not saying Bulls can't eventually win a championship, but I bet they value having a sucessful, popular playoff team while maintaining flexibility and finiacial sense

by NY Chicago Fan on Nov 1, 2007 6:32 PM CDT up reply actions

Disagree!

I thought you were commenting on the Cubs for a second. Anyway, Paxson/Skiles/Reinstorf are not like that. Paxson wants to win the whole damn thing. He's very competitive as everyone could see when he played. You will see when we get Kobe.

Is it me or does Lebron walk like a duck?!

by GranvilleWaiters on Nov 1, 2007 9:28 PM CDT up reply actions

No rings for that

They don't give out rings to the team with the most roster flexibility and fiscal discipline.

When you have a chance to get a player of Kobe's ability, you've got to do it. Deng, Gordon and PJ's contract means you have Bryant at about the same salary those two would have made after their extensions. It also solves the problem the Bulls have in getting points from someone when the defense throws everything it has at you yet you can still score.

by nateroth on Nov 1, 2007 5:09 PM CDT up reply actions

The Spurs have a lot of rings

thanks to roster flexibility and fiscal discipline.

by hscs on Nov 1, 2007 5:11 PM CDT up reply actions

you left off

Tim Duncan.

The number 1 reason why they won championships.

by Chad @ Blog a Bull on Nov 1, 2007 5:28 PM CDT up reply actions

yup

and a roster chock full of middling players with bad contracts would have had the same amount of success as Kevin Garnett and the T-Wolves.

by hscs on Nov 1, 2007 6:20 PM CDT up reply actions

bs

"thanks to roster flexibility and fiscal discipline."

that is NOT why they won rings. They won because of Tim Duncan.

Yes, teams with decent support around their stars can't win championships but without Duncan all the flexibility and fiscal discipline in the world wouldn't have won shit.

As a matter of fact, this year's bulls team seems pretty flexible and disciplined (Wallace?) but they ain't gonna win it all.

by Chad @ Blog a Bull on Nov 1, 2007 6:30 PM CDT up reply actions

hate to attack

but I'm not sure if you understood I was commenting on how well the Spurs have distributed their financial resources over the years. I agree Tim Duncan has been a (the!) big reason why the Spurs have won a bunch of games, but poor management of the team would have meant mediocrity for San Antonio. Ginobili, Oberto, and Bonner, or Hudson, Jaric, and Blount. You get the picture now I'm sure.

Off to return the CBA to the vault!

by hscs on Nov 1, 2007 6:40 PM CDT up reply actions

i get it i get it

look at the Knicks for crying out loud. High pay roll shit team.

I'm saying that all the fiscal responsibility in the world is useless with out stellar standout talent.

by Chad @ Blog a Bull on Nov 1, 2007 7:16 PM CDT up reply actions

The

difference is Kobe is no Duncan. TD, among a few other Spurs, took less money to give the management more money to sign other good players with. Kobe on the other hand signed a huge contract, which he knew would hinder the Lakers' ability to bring in other good players.
I agree the Bulls could use a true stud, I just don't believe Kobe is the right stud.

by duaneo88 on Nov 1, 2007 7:33 PM CDT up reply actions

what?

Duncan and Kobe make the same.

by Chad @ Blog a Bull on Nov 1, 2007 7:49 PM CDT up reply actions

Actually

Kobe makes a few million more. I'm sure you know TD just signed an extension for 2 years / 20 mil per that will last through 2011/2012. So in 2011/2012 TD will make 20 mil, Kobe will make 24.8 mil (shamsports for that info).
That 4.8 mil, plus Bowen signing for less money, is the difference between, oh lets say getting a Robert Horry instead of a Mark Blount.
TD could have signed for 30 mil a year, instead he took 20. Do you see Kobe doing that? There is no way.

by duaneo88 on Nov 1, 2007 8:26 PM CDT up reply actions

I see what you're saying

When I say they made the same I was talking about this year and the next two. But Kobe would sign for less if that meant that he could have a winning team. If he just was in it for the money, he'd stay in Los Angeles and collect checks.

by Chad @ Blog a Bull on Nov 1, 2007 8:46 PM CDT up reply actions

attack! attack!

A few bad contracts can hurt a team for a long time, and the original flexibility comment was in regards to the Bulls being able to resign their own "stellar standout talent".

by hscs on Nov 1, 2007 8:50 PM CDT up reply actions

It helps when...

You have you superstar to build from the start and you then draft well in the lower rounds to surround him with talent.

The Bulls have no one on their roster the caliber of TD. If they got Kobe or TD it would be in the middle of their careers.

The situation would be quite different had the Spurs not sucked at the right time and failed to get a player the caliber of TD.

For all the flexibility we extol, remember the Spurs were ready to jump on Jason Kidd had the Nets not signed him.

"If you're not going to compete, then I'll dominate you." MJ

by Rankdog on Nov 1, 2007 8:52 PM CDT up reply actions

And they would have had to let Tony Parker go

so maybe that didn't work out so bad for the Spurs. Kidd > Parker, but Kidd < Parker + Eva.

by Scotter on Nov 1, 2007 9:39 PM CDT up reply actions

No question

it definitely worked out better for the Spurs. My point being they were ready to tear up that payroll flexibility and replace their young talent with a big contract for an aging superstar. Its completely by accident they have flexibility that the currently do. They can thank Kidd and the Nets for that.

"If you're not going to compete, then I'll dominate you." MJ

by Rankdog on Nov 2, 2007 12:14 AM CDT up reply actions

Hurray

No Kobe!
Not need to worry for a while.

by AngryAsianAce on Nov 1, 2007 3:29 PM CDT reply actions

Thank God

The ONLY thing Kobe guarantees is a bunch of unhappy teammates. I firmly believe that the team we currently have has a far greater chance of winning a championship in the next 5 years than a team with Kobe. Kobe changes everything about how the team plays, it's not just a change at SG.

Personally the only thing that disappointed me was the "for now."

by nas on Nov 1, 2007 3:31 PM CDT reply actions

Um, I'm listening to 570 AM here in Los Angeles

And they just said . . . .

"Breaking news! John Paxson has been quoted as saying Kobe Bryant will never be a Bull"

Was KC at the listening to the same thing as they were?

This is huge if true

by Option27 on Nov 1, 2007 3:36 PM CDT reply actions

"For now" or "Never"?

"To be or not to be a Bull?",that is a quastion.

by Azabullsfan on Nov 1, 2007 3:41 PM CDT up reply actions

Might just be

their interpretation of his comments.

Racecar spelled backwards is racecar.

by sue369 on Nov 1, 2007 3:42 PM CDT up reply actions

yeah

I thought that at first but they kept insisting he said never.

by Option27 on Nov 1, 2007 3:44 PM CDT up reply actions

Even if he did say that,

I'd guess it was just some over-emphasis in an attempt to end the Bulls' involvement in the all the rumors. It's sports, so we all know nothing is forever - people unretire, franchise players get traded, etc.

"They had me do a psychology test and I asked Coach Skiles if that affected his coaching. He laughed and said, `No way.'" (Joakim Noah)

by wjb1492 on Nov 1, 2007 4:12 PM CDT up reply actions

Mike McGraw of the Herald

Relays more of Pax's quotes.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 1, 2007 3:47 PM CDT reply actions

Nothing personal-just business?

One imporatnt quote from reprt-"Paxson doesn't think he needs to address the players about putting an end to trade discussions with the Lakers. He thinks they'll get the message through the media."-May be he doesn't want to give any personal promisses,so he wound't look like a lier in
December.

by Azabullsfan on Nov 1, 2007 4:08 PM CDT up reply actions

The players are not kids, they're adults!

This is a business. Players in all sports shake off trade rumors all the time. You don't need to baby them.

Is it me or does Lebron walk like a duck?!

by GranvilleWaiters on Nov 1, 2007 9:19 PM CDT up reply actions

maybe

Paxson doesn't want Kobe because he didn't go to college...it would go agains the mold of "hard-working player from a successful school/bball program"

by ScottieCartwright on Nov 1, 2007 3:56 PM CDT reply actions

If that was true.....

Why did Paxson and Skiles go to L.A. two summers ago to try and talk to Kobe about joining the Bulls when he was a free agent. Paxson does want Bryant. Kobe himself said he was close to signing with the Bulls back then.

Is it me or does Lebron walk like a duck?!

by GranvilleWaiters on Nov 1, 2007 9:16 PM CDT up reply actions

If they really wanted Kobe

they would've worn their best jeans on the trip.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 1, 2007 10:23 PM CDT up reply actions

open letter (venting & sick of this)

Kobe: you're too good for LA to just give you away, and too expensive for a team to get you and still be a contender. If you really want to force the issue stay at home and refuse to play until LA gets desperate. Or just deal with it.

Lakers: Either call Kobe's bluff and tell him to shut up & be happy, or be prepared to get less for him. But don't expect other teams to bail you out to save face. It's not that the Bulls think Deng is as good as Kobe, they just don't want to give you "fair value" when they have no reason to.

Kobe salivators: this current Bulls team could be a 50-win team for the next several years. Probably not enough to win a championship, but still good and exciting for a long time. Kobe & a depleted Bulls roster, on the other hand, won't last as long, and probably wouldn't beat the best of the West in a 7-game series in the short-term anyway. So if it doesn't get a championship, why give up so much for a 30yo who may only stick around 2yrs? When it gets you no further than you are now?

Mariotti, Bill Simmons, Barkely, or whoever else thinks Paxson has no guts/balls: no more complaining unless you specifically identify the trades/proposals that Paxson turned down. Or at least preface every paragraph with, "I have no idea what the specifics might be, or what's best for the team, and really...I don't know my ass from my elbow anyway."

Deng & Gordon: Chill. You'll get paid eventually. in the meantime work on that inside game and cutting down turnovers.

Sorry, I had to vent. Feel free to add an open letter of your own.

by T Maple on Nov 1, 2007 4:26 PM CDT reply actions

I just don't get it...

You say it yourself:

"Probably not enough to win a championship, but still good and exciting for a long time."

Then who cares? If they can't win a championship then they need to make a change. All that matters is championships. I don't care how exciting the Bulls were in the 80's, its the 90's that mattered.

by Chad @ Blog a Bull on Nov 1, 2007 4:35 PM CDT up reply actions

doesn't matter w/o a championship?

I'm not saying I don't care if they never win a championship, or that I don't want them to win one, but I do disagree that that's "all that matters." Would you want to be Miami Heat fan lately? That team is really depressing to me. How long did the feel-good vibe of that championship last? Would I take that over being good, respected, and fun to watch for a decade? Call me crazy, but I'm not sure I would.

I know "one and done" and "great for several years but not a champ" is a false dichotomy. And I do think Paxson should be willing to make big moves that'll bring us closer. I was hoping for Gasol last year, who's not half the player Kobe is. But he wouldn't have been as costly--we'd still have a more promising future.

And again, I don't think a Kobe Bulls roster is any guaranteed trophy anyway.

by T Maple on Nov 1, 2007 7:53 PM CDT up reply actions

you and i are not that far apart...

Ideally, you want a sustainable team that can be comptetive at the highest levels. You want to be the 90's bulls or more current Spurs. Or even the Kobe/Shaq lakers. Or even the Detroit Pistons. there are countless examples. But in order to do that you need better talent than what we have right now. And Kobe Bryant doesn't guarantee anything but he brings us closer to that. Closer than Ben Gordon will anyhow.

by Chad @ Blog a Bull on Nov 1, 2007 8:10 PM CDT up reply actions

Dear Mr. T,

or is it Ms. T (ah, the delights of anonymity), Mariotti, Bill Simmons, Barkely, and I guess that would be me, we all think that Paxson is a gutless weenie.

Paxson has never been proactive in anything. Even as a player, he just hung around, waiting for someone to throw him the ball, so he could try to heave in a long-shot--the same thing he's doing now with this Kobe debacle.

PS, are a few hours up yet?

by alec on Nov 1, 2007 5:34 PM CDT up reply actions

What a dumb post!!!!

Paxson was a hard nosed defender. A money/clutch player who always showed up when it counted most. He stood up to anyone. The perfect compliment to Jordan. He shot well over 50% from the field many times. What? you thought he should be a slasher?? Or should he have been in the post? His job was to spread the floor and he did it well. I think you confused John Paxson with Steve Kerr. If you replaced his name with Kerr I would say BRAVO! Just another moronic blogabull post. Either you are too young to remember the dynasty years or you just don't know the game.

As for Paxson the GM. You're not going to give the Lakers everything they want. Wait it out. Anyway, Kobe is sort of the 3rd GM in the equation. He has a no trade clause. He also has say in who the team he goes to gives up. He's also stated that if he goes to the Bulls Deng must not be included in any trade. He also wants to play with Ben Wallace. This is not easy.

Is it me or does Lebron walk like a duck?!

by GranvilleWaiters on Nov 1, 2007 9:12 PM CDT up reply actions

call me androgynous T :)

Sorry if it seemed I was calling you out specifically--my venom was mainly meant for Mariotti and talk radio folks. But you and I have very different opinions on what's important in a GM, so I guess we'll leave it at that.

by T Maple on Nov 2, 2007 7:19 AM CDT up reply actions

I agree with everything you said but.......

If they traded for Kobe, an extention agreement would be reached. PAX is not going to make this trade and not be insured that Kobe would stay.

Is it me or does Lebron walk like a duck?!

by GranvilleWaiters on Nov 1, 2007 9:01 PM CDT up reply actions

I agree with tmaple

by AngryAsianAce on Nov 1, 2007 10:32 PM CDT up reply actions

More from Hanley

Here

2 things of interest in this article is that Paxson said he would not rule out resurrecting the negotiations and at the end of the article he says he plans on having Gordon and Deng in Chicago for a long time.

He said the same thing about Nocioni and we all know he meant it after that contract.

by Option27 on Nov 1, 2007 4:31 PM CDT reply actions

Of course

He PLANS of having them, unless something better comes along. He's always refered to his young players as assets. Don't forget that.

by kingj41 on Nov 1, 2007 4:34 PM CDT up reply actions

Paxson

is just as shiesty as the rest of the GMs...he told Jalen Rose that he would definitely NOT be traded, but he was gone just a couple of weeks after that was said.

He said that he would not trade Eddy. But we all know what happened there. And I don't care if his hand was "forced" in that situation or not, he still didn't keep his word.

If BG and Lu really meant that much to him and the organization, there would've been a little more give-and-take in the negotiation process. According to both players, it sounds like there was no negotiation at all.

And I'm not saying that he should've broke the bank, but you're telling me that neither of them is worth more than Kevin Martin??

He can say all he wants that a deal was never in the process, but you'd have to be a total idiot to think that. Point blank Paxson is a great liar. If for one second someone thinks that Paxson has put down the phone, wake up. This face-saving show HAD to be done.

by ScottieCartwright on Nov 1, 2007 4:42 PM CDT up reply actions

when did pax ever say that

especially to Jalen Rose?

Nocioni-Khryapa in '08

by bullshooter on Nov 1, 2007 7:25 PM CDT up reply actions

Rose interpreted something Pax said

as meaning that.

And, if I'm remembering correctly, Pax wasn't able to talk to him before the trade so Rose left with some bad feelings.

But, who cares?

by KT on Nov 1, 2007 7:35 PM CDT up reply actions

nobody does

my point though is that Pax can't always be trusted with what he says

and this is what you're referring to:

Rose, however, said he had been assured by Bulls vice-president John Paxson that he would not be dealt to Toronto.

"If it does happen, that means he went back on his word," Rose said. "I see him as somebody that's a man of his word and I have no reason to believe otherwise."

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/story/2003/11/21/raptors_traderumours031121.html

by ScottieCartwright on Nov 2, 2007 8:38 AM CDT up reply actions

so you take Jalen's word over Pax's?

Nocioni-Khryapa in '08

by bullshooter on Nov 2, 2007 9:08 AM CDT up reply actions

i just look

at that particular situation and see more reasons for Pax to lie than for Jalen to lie...not to say that both are liars or that both always tell the truth.

GMs are always playing poker in this league...they've been known to try and throw the media off or throw other GMs off. Lying is pretty much practiced!

So...yes, in that one instance, I do believe Jalen over Pax

by ScottieCartwright on Nov 2, 2007 10:06 AM CDT up reply actions

those articles

are so old it's hard to find them now...but it was said

i'll try to find and post a link if possible.

by ScottieCartwright on Nov 2, 2007 8:26 AM CDT up reply actions

What are your sources?

ESPN and various online articles or Mariotti and company?? Or did Jalen Rose say that? Paxson never promised anything to Rose or Eddy Curry. If you're not Michael Jordan all bets are off.

Is it me or does Lebron walk like a duck?!

by GranvilleWaiters on Nov 1, 2007 8:54 PM CDT up reply actions

Just BECAUSE..........

somebody says it on sports talk radio or writes it in another silly ESPN article doesn't mean it's true. Much of the information you read in the paper or hear on the radio/TV is way off many times.

Is it me or does Lebron walk like a duck?!

by GranvilleWaiters on Nov 1, 2007 8:58 PM CDT up reply actions

Major Let down.

Well lets all watch joakim Noah grow.

''This whole parties out of control!''-Moose

by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on Nov 1, 2007 4:38 PM CDT reply actions

into what?

mediocrity?

by Chad @ Blog a Bull on Nov 1, 2007 4:41 PM CDT up reply actions

it's like watching monkeys play chess.

only with more feces.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 1, 2007 4:46 PM CDT up reply actions

Noah

Mediocrity? Talk to me at the end of the basketball season. People like you will be eating humble pie when this kid gets cracking. You have no idea of what makes a winning ball player. Right now the fans in Golden State are questioning why they didn't grab Noah with the 8th pick, instead of that talented coward Brandon Wright. Noah has good karma and I'll take note of every win the Bulls have whenever he plays. I would have loved to see him on the floor in the closing minutes of the game against the New Jersey Nets. Smart and fearless player and he finds ways to help his team win ball games. By the way, if you don't want him, tell the rest of the NBA and teams like Phoenix and Dallas will be breaking down your door to get their hands on him.

by SlamDunk on Nov 1, 2007 11:04 PM CDT up reply actions

send him to the west

tall and skinny? no thanks. to tall to handle the ball, too skinny to play down low. this guy is brad sellers all over again.

Karma my ass!

by Chad @ Blog a Bull on Nov 2, 2007 1:18 AM CDT up reply actions

Noah

You are obviously an idiot who knows nothing about Noah. Can't handle the rock? That's one of his strengths. Too tall an skinny? What did Tim Duncan look like when he came out of Wake Forest? You're one of those leftover haters from Noah's college days. Back-to-back NCAA titles. Winners are born. Talk to me when the season is over. If you have the guts to.

by SlamDunk on Nov 2, 2007 3:21 AM CDT up reply actions

Winners are born!

Really? Cause Tim Duncan and Shaq an Kobe and Dwane Wade and Chauncey Billups and Ben Wallace won so many titles in college.

You know nothing if you think that college success guarantees NBA success. It doesn't. Winning an NCAA title or 3 means ZERO once you are in the league.

Tim Duncan was never as skinny as Noah. Tim Duncan DOMINATED in college. Noah never dominated. Don't get me wrong, he was a good college player but Duncan dominated and was the #1 draft pick. Noah blows.

by Chad @ Blog a Bull on Nov 2, 2007 12:41 PM CDT up reply actions

Duncan

You were probably asleep when Duncan was in college. He was a thin-looking player and no one thought he would become what he's become. Remember the clash between UMass and Wake Forest. He was dunked on pushed all over the place and dominated by Marcus Camby. After that people started questioning his heart. Once again you're proving that you probably started following the game recently. Duncan didn't dominate. There was another school of thought out there that Camby was the better player. The hype from people like Dick Vitale was responsible for most of the raves Duncan received.

I never said that college success guarantees success at the pro level, but like in the case of Duncan, you never know. By screaming about Duncan being the # 1 draft pick and his success at the collegiate level, you're arguing against yourself. Duncan's success as a college player, although he c ouldn't carry Wake Forest to a NCAA title, didn't guarantee him a successful NBA career. That was not confirmed until years later as a pro. The same way you're being an absolute numbskull if you think Noah's not going to be a top pro. He hasn't even played his first pro game. Talk about stupid, childish ingrained bias. You're an absolute dope. Stop wasting my time.

by SlamDunk on Nov 2, 2007 3:09 PM CDT up reply actions

numb skull

Noah BLOWS! And you can't prove SHIT! Until he does a damned thing you can't call me anything. Maybe the egg will be on my face in a couple of years. Maybe.

And you don't know shit about Tim Duncan. 2 time ACC player of the year who averaged 19/12 his junior year and averaged 20 points a game while leading the nation in rebounding. he was an all american, won the John Wooden Award 3 straight defensive player of the year awards and the second leading shot blocker in ncaa history.

Duncan DOMINATED and earned his #1 pick. He was no project.

Noah sucks and until he proves anything in the NBA, you are the numbskull. When he averages 20/10 you can get in my face.

by Chad @ Blog a Bull on Nov 2, 2007 3:21 PM CDT up reply actions

Why

does everyone have to average 20/10 or they suck/blow? They took him because he was the best guy to get in their rotation this year. He rebounds, gets some garbage points and plays solid d. There's nothing wrong with that.

I actually agree with you about Duncan, coming out of college he was a big deal and an obvious number one pick.

by CrashDavis on Nov 2, 2007 3:29 PM CDT up reply actions

they don't

he said this:

". The same way you're being an absolute numbskull if you think Noah's not going to be a top pro."

To me there are many ways of being a top pro but if you are a big man that USUALLY is determined by points and rebounds. for me, a TOP PRO needs to go 20/10. And I would expect that from a guy who is almost 7 feet tall with his 'alleged' skills. If not, was he really worth a lottery pick?

by Chad @ Blog a Bull on Nov 2, 2007 3:38 PM CDT up reply actions

Well then

last year there were 4 TOP PRO big men in the NBA and Dwight Howard missed by three points a game.

It's a ridiculous standard to hold anybody to. Especially a rookie who hasn't played in a regular season game yet.

Who would you have taken in that spot?

by CrashDavis on Nov 2, 2007 4:22 PM CDT up reply actions

look

i use 20/10 as one measure. if a guy goes 17/10 and plays great defense or something that is there too. Or a big man that can pass well. Sure. There is more to basketball than just points/rebounds. But if you are telling me that there are 4 big men that went 20/10, just how many players are you allowing in the "Top Player" category. Cause you round that out with one or two more big men, and 5 sf/g and those are who I would call top players.

by Chad @ Blog a Bull on Nov 2, 2007 5:12 PM CDT up reply actions

This conversation is going nowhere.

No one on here is putting Noah in the top ten players in the nba. That's insane.

But you can't just come out and say Noah sucks or Noah blows without backing it up at all. He does what he does. Defense, rebounding, passing out of the post and some put-back baskets.

And I really don't think I can say this enough...He hasn't even played a regular season game yet.

by CrashDavis on Nov 2, 2007 5:23 PM CDT up reply actions

OK

then if I can't say he blows, then no one should be calling me a numbskull or telling me that I don't know anything about basketball. Fair nuff?

I will say that if foresee him having a rather lackluster career unworthy of a lottery pick.

I think that sometimes people confuse effort with skill and see a blood and guts and floor burns guy like Noah and think that he's a good player. But I see through that. I see a guy that has no place in the NBA. He has a very thin frame and will get pushed around his entire career.

by Chad @ Blog a Bull on Nov 2, 2007 5:40 PM CDT up reply actions

Chad, grow up

I thought CrashDavis had silenced you with your ridiculous 20/10 rationale. Tell me something, based on your obsession about an NBA player's bulk at the center position, Marcus Camby had no right being in the NBA? He was a stringbean in college and remained one when he entered the NBA (still 6ft. 11 ins, 235 lbs to this day).
He was picked 2nd overall in the 1996 NBA lottery by the Toronto Raptors. He was voted to the 1996-97 NBA All-Rookie First Team, the NBA All-Defensive Second Team from 2004-06, was the 2006-07 NBA Defensive Player of the Year, and made the 2006-07 NBA All-Defensive First Team. He's not known for his offense, but defensively he's a stud.
By the way, what would you do without the Dennis Rodmans of the world? They're not offensive giants but they are great at what you demeaningly call hustle plays, total effort, "blood and guts and floor burns." I wonder if you think Rodman was a great player? I'm sure you do, pin head!

by SlamDunk on Nov 2, 2007 10:59 PM CDT up reply actions

wow

Marcus Camby what a stud! that's what i want in a #2 pick.

I'm a pinhead? why? Cuase I like guys that are good at the game of basketball? Rodman was great. Rodman was an athletic freak. But guys like Rodman are rare. I'd rather have guys like Tim Duncan and KG in my front court. You can have Camby and Rodman. We will DOMINATE you.

by Chad @ Blog a Bull on Nov 3, 2007 5:36 PM CDT up reply actions

You do realize

that while guys like Rodman are rare...Guys like KG and Duncan are about 10 times more rare!

by CrashDavis on Nov 5, 2007 9:23 AM CST up reply actions

Actually no...

Dennis Rodman was one of a kind. An athletic freak who dedicated his entire basketball career to rebounding and defense. And was spectacular at it. No one does that in the NBA and definitely not at that level.

by Chad @ Blog a Bull on Nov 5, 2007 1:23 PM CST up reply actions

Maybe someday we'll know what happened

''This whole parties out of control!''-Moose

by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on Nov 1, 2007 4:38 PM CDT reply actions

The Frustrating Part

is that since we've had this "core" together several "stars" and a couple "superstars" have voiced their displeasure and asked out. The Bulls haven't moved anyone and will eventually be right around the cap once BG and Deng get their $$ next summer. Wasn't that the whole point of having young and upcoming stars to get a "superstar." Meanwhile, Boston got thier men, Orlando got thier man, and we are left with the same "core" we had 2 years ago. I'm not blaming Pax because I think he has done a great job, I am just frustrated that other teams seem to make deals while we will be looked as a young upcoming team without that "star" for years to come...

by tyrus4prez on Nov 1, 2007 4:48 PM CDT reply actions

I"m just frustrated

watching LeBron own us until we get better.

by Chad @ Blog a Bull on Nov 1, 2007 4:49 PM CDT up reply actions

Huh? Bron Bron might not even make the playoffs

Is it me or does Lebron walk like a duck?!

by GranvilleWaiters on Nov 1, 2007 8:51 PM CDT up reply actions

the celtics made their deals

because their team sucked. It's a bit of a difference.

And in Orlando's case, are you talking about Rashard Lewis?

2 years is too long to wait?

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 1, 2007 4:51 PM CDT up reply actions

just say Ben Gordon and Luol Deng

are 'superstars'. Happy?

Ainge lucked out on a day when McHale was feeling extra incompetent, and Orlando signed Lewis to a financially irresponsible contract.

by hscs on Nov 1, 2007 4:54 PM CDT up reply actions

I'm just saying

That everytime a player asks to be traded who could benefit this team, the BUlls come up (Gasol, Garnett, Bryant) as the likely destination. I'm not saying those deals were right, but I just wish soemthing would happen. Maybe it will happen in Dec, maybe not? But, this team cannot win a Championship right now!!

by tyrus4prez on Nov 1, 2007 4:59 PM CDT up reply actions

probably because it's only November

by hscs on Nov 1, 2007 5:04 PM CDT up reply actions

Bucher is saying Kobe is hold up the deal?

''This whole parties out of control!''-Moose

by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on Nov 1, 2007 5:01 PM CDT reply actions

Kobe to the Bulls

is inevitable. When the Busses realize that they are better off rebulding instead of trying to salvage a 7 or 8 seed there will be a deal. It could be today, tommrrow, the deadline, the offseason, or next year's deadline. Gordon, TT/Noah, the expiring contracts of Duhon and Kryapa, a sign and trade PJ Brown is as good as they are going to get.

by LD9 on Nov 1, 2007 5:20 PM CDT reply actions

way too much!

The way too much comment doesn't include Duhon. That would be a wonderful thing. But, I'm not giving them Gordon, "TNT", and Noah!!!

Is it me or does Lebron walk like a duck?!

by GranvilleWaiters on Nov 1, 2007 8:49 PM CDT up reply actions

It seems like Paxson is playing Poker

''This whole parties out of control!''-Moose

by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on Nov 1, 2007 5:21 PM CDT reply actions

Yes,he is.

He's a good player(hopefully),lill bit conservative(which is good,sometimes)but he can bluff.And something tells me, that he will get a better deal in December.You have to be patient when you play poker.Especially when you know that your opponent(Kupchak in this case)doesn't have enough assets to play.So relax,and GO BULLS!

by Azabullsfan on Nov 1, 2007 5:46 PM CDT up reply actions

As Sue would say...

I trust Pax. While he is a little conservative, he wouldn't pass up a decent deal. I love the idea of having Kobe, baggage and all, but one can't gut the team to get him. Waiting only increases our leverage, though Pax needs to hope that some team like Dallas doesn't swoop in now (though being a W conf team, hopefully this is unlikely)

by bullsfaninbigapple on Nov 1, 2007 6:07 PM CDT reply actions

Looks like Chicago

Is the only destination for Kobe.Maybe Washington can do something,while I don't see why they would give up Arenas and someone else to get him.
Like I sad before,we're in good position here and lakers are not.

by Azabullsfan on Nov 1, 2007 6:32 PM CDT up reply actions

A new team to root against

Knicks out, Lakers in-- and 0-1 as of last night. Kobe, come to papa.

by Seth @ Blog a Bull on Nov 1, 2007 6:17 PM CDT reply actions

Kobe has just been traded

I'll come with more news later.

-kevin

"My jumper's so smooth it will seduce your girlfriend." -1958ChiTown

by NittanyBull on Nov 1, 2007 6:56 PM CDT reply actions

lol

Racecar spelled backwards is racecar.

by sue369 on Nov 1, 2007 7:05 PM CDT up reply actions

The hell

?

by nas on Nov 1, 2007 7:05 PM CDT up reply actions

It's a joke.

There use to be a guy named Kevin who would come in here and act like he had inside information.

Racecar spelled backwards is racecar.

by sue369 on Nov 1, 2007 7:09 PM CDT up reply actions

Ah

I get it. Thanks.

Charles Barkley actually had it right for once when he just said "it's annoying." I'm sick of Kobe and his drama.

by nas on Nov 1, 2007 7:15 PM CDT up reply actions

I'm surprised

Charles said that.

Racecar spelled backwards is racecar.

by sue369 on Nov 1, 2007 8:06 PM CDT up reply actions

Lay off Pax

With almost EVERY Bull being mentioned in trade rumors, it was getting way out of hand. He had to stop it.

As for him being too cautious -- he has a good reason to be. We would all whine and complain if Luol and Tyrus went somewhere and became stars as Kobe starting pulling his prima dona crap in ChiTown.

Everything has a price, but you don't want to pay too much. After December, maybe a deal gets done involving Nocioni but won't cost us Luol or Kirk.

by jai on Nov 1, 2007 7:22 PM CDT reply actions

A Possible Pax Strategy

So, just maybe, Pax is trying to downplay this whole deal, hoping to entice the LAL to making the deal.

consider the situation. consider talks have stalled. talks don't seem to go anywhere, both offices are frustrated, annoyed, wiry. Pax decides to tell LAL to shove the trade up their ass. Then, finally, an official annoucement (today).

Maybe this is just a strategy...with aims to get the deal done on Pax's terms? Will LAL bite?

by chicago-homesick-blues on Nov 1, 2007 7:52 PM CDT reply actions

I'll take Kobe.

But the lakers can't have the kids. Give them grandpa Wallace, the foulingest guard in the league (Kirk), and BG, who you all know is inconsistent. We have the time to make them sweat, and the Bulls will own the Eastern Conference by the end of the season anyway. Also, if Kobe was on the squad, we'd be 1-0, not 0-1.

by chicagodogg79 on Nov 1, 2007 8:29 PM CDT reply actions

I'm gonna miss

The Bulls taking over headlines all week. It kind of reminded me of the Jordan days when they would steal headlines even though something bigger was happening that day.

by Option27 on Nov 1, 2007 9:03 PM CDT reply actions

felt like the good ol days

''This whole parties out of control!''-Moose

by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on Nov 1, 2007 10:21 PM CDT up reply actions

If people really want Kobe for nothing...

Why not wait until he can opt out in 2 years??
Then Bulls can just sign him and lose no one.

I expect Kobe to be real good for another 4-5 years.

Actually come to think of it, isn't LBJ and Wade free agents too 2 years?

If thats the case Id rather have James on our team.

by AngryAsianAce on Nov 1, 2007 10:45 PM CDT reply actions

I think it's 3 more years for LBJ and Wade

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 1, 2007 11:03 PM CDT up reply actions

I think it is three years

including this one. Both have a player option for 2010/11 and as of right now, both will be on shitty teams then, too. Wade would be number one on my list.

Nocioni-Khryapa in '08

by bullshooter on Nov 1, 2007 11:05 PM CDT up reply actions

Depending on the injury situation going forward

"They had me do a psychology test and I asked Coach Skiles if that affected his coaching. He laughed and said, `No way.'" (Joakim Noah)

by wjb1492 on Nov 2, 2007 9:29 AM CDT up reply actions

Wade is talented but...

He is injury prone...
although it would be nice to see a hometown star playing for the Bulls.

LBJ would take teh Bulls over the top for sure.

Imagine the Line-up

Hinrich
Deng (I guess he would have to move over the SG)
James
Smith/Nocioni/Thomas
Wallace

Trade Gordon's ass or make him come of the bench.

Makes me giggle like a school girl. He he!

by AngryAsianAce on Nov 2, 2007 3:33 PM CDT up reply actions

From the Trib:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/cs-071101bullspaxson,0,1048615.story?coll=chi_tab02_layout

"The only way I would consider a deal is if I could go to [team Chairman] Jerry Reinsdorf and with assurance say we're a better basketball team from top to bottom," Paxson said. "On top of that, this is a financially responsible move to make. I know that people sometimes don't want that to be part of the discussion, that an owner should throw around money like it's nothing. But that's not the reality of our business."

Indeed, Paxson clarified that a signed-and-traded P.J. Brown, who was mentioned in one national rumor that received plenty of play, would force the Bulls to take back salary that would put them beyond the league's punitive luxury tax threshold. That's because Brown's salary currently isn't on the Bulls' books.

"We're not going to do [the luxury tax] this year or any other year," Paxson said. "That's a component again that people don't understand. It's not about not being interested. It's about that there's not a deal to be done."

If you don't want to pay the luxury tax, then why give Noce a big contract?

by Big D on Nov 1, 2007 11:05 PM CDT reply actions