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Bulls/Nets postgame reactionary thoughts.

That game thread got out of control early, so I'll start in a new one with some post-game thoughts. Before I get started, this is just one game and I don't understand the need to extrapolate any of it into the season or franchise direction as a whole. Nothing you saw tonight should change one's thoughts on the team's direction one way or the other.

  • Last thing first: Skiles sat on his hands for the last 5 minutes and overtime. It was Nocioni at the PF for too long of a stretch, and that just kills the team rebounding. If you want to get 'tough' rebounds, don't play 'tougher', put in better rebounders. Sure, after struggling all game, Noc hit some big shots at the end and was the only one converting in OT, but I don't want him taking shots in overtime anyway.
     
  • To pick on the 5-year man some more, he was part of that clusterfuck that was the final play of regulation. He waited too long to set the screen, and then couldn't wait to run towards the basket, making his contribution to the play was bringing a second defender towards Ben Gordon. And that ended as well as expected.
     
  • Tyrus had a tough go in his opening stint, getting two quick fouls. He also missed a few easy conversions that he'll usually make. But he was still on the floor during the Bulls best stretch, and didn't seem to make too many mistakes overall. I was disappointed we didn't see him more, or Joe Smith for that matter. Skiles seemed to have always have Smith in without pairing him with Wallace or Tyrus, and that's yet another bad rebounding combination, but offensively Joe looked quite good.
     
  • Ben Gordon had a phenomenal third quarter shooting the ball, and while I'd normally complain that he didn't get to the line quite enough, I acknowledge the possibility that he was sick of getting jobbed by the officials on a lot of contact plays. Put his drives next to Vince Carter's, and there was a clear discrepancy in how they were called.
     
  • The Luol-post option went alright, but there wasn't enough of it. Especially in overtime when it was the Noc show. There was also a play when Luol was able to dribble the length of the court with a man tailing him and finish, a situation that in years past would've likely wound up a turnover.
     
  • I thought Skiles had pretty good rotations overall until the aforementioned final lineup. Joe Smith was the first frontcourt player off the bench, and Thabo the first backcourt player. Of course when Thabo got two turnovers in a row late in the first half you could hear the doghouse door open. Duhon actually had a decent game, and it was needed considering the foul trouble Hinrich was in all night. But we even got a glimpse of the tiny-ball lineup, which I thought had been destroyed in Mt. Doom. "Duhon +  Richard Jefferson = success" is written on the dry-erase board of the locker room.
     
  • The worst part about having no 'go to scorer' is that they should at least be giving the ball to Deng and Gordon to give them any opportunity to become that. Instead we received a heavy dose of Nocioni and Ben Wallace. 
     
  • Ok, so would Kobe Bryant have helped the free-throw discrepancy, and given a better option on the last possession? Sure. But it's not just Ben Gordon for Kobe Bryant, so don't react like it's that simple. [UPDATE: Oh man, how predictable.]
     
  • Antoine Wright? What the hell?

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Not that much has changed.
I like Joe Smith and I think they should have subbed him in for Wallace.

I just don't think this is a Finals team. I really wish I knew what the hell is going on. I'm in a bit of limbo as a Bulls fan. I would like to see the Bulls make the trade.

''This whole parties out of control!''-Moose

by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on Oct 31, 2007 10:11 PM CDT   0 recs

Wright is the new Moore
lets just hope this doesnt start a spiral into a 45 win season...

-Mighty fight, but loss at the hands of angry Kidd and hateful Carter and officials who love Da Stars
-contract situations, Kobe situations...every shot Deng and Gordon shoot has the potential to be overshot
-Joe Smith is the only new player. Oh.

ugg...the Celtics seem alot harder to overcome after tonight...

SAY NO TO THE CHICAGO LAKERS!

by hongydraw on Oct 31, 2007 10:24 PM CDT   0 recs

tonight should change nothing
if you think that way now, you should've felt that way all along. This one game, an overtime loss on the road, should mean nothing regarding the freaking celtics. Also, if you think that Deng and Gordon's contract situations will make them 'overshoot', then they don't deserve the contracts in the first place. And lets put your overreactions into clear view: In the 2nd quarter you wanted Gordon pulled from the rest of the game, declaring it an 'off night'. You forgot to add 'greetings from the land of the retarded'.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Oct 31, 2007 11:01 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Well Put
If nothing more, the fact that we came back from a 15 point deffecit was amazing. It wasnt like we did in garbage time, or if the nets werent going at as at all. Actually, the nets werent that great, the only thing that really put them in front of us, was the fact that we (or rather the officials) kept putting them on the line. Was it something like 20 of thier first quarter points were free throws (dont jump me if the numbers wrong)? The maturity to get it together, especially since we are (incoming cliche) a jump shooting team, that isnt easy. Ben gordon didnt declare its an off night and hang up his shoes, he did what great players do, kept shooting the ball with the concept that  the next one was gonna fall, maturity indeed.
im trying hard to become the next kirk hinrich, therefore im doing nothing more than being the next chris duhon.

by piccolomair on Nov 1, 2007 12:06 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

What about kirk?
 Before he fouled out was he effective?  Did he ever get a chance to play for an extended stretch? Were TT or Wallace playing like they were hurt?  I was in my car for the whole game :(

by haze on Oct 31, 2007 10:25 PM CDT   0 recs

They didn't look hurt
until Wallace stepped up to the line to shoot his first free throw, which was 5 feet short.  Kirk played a lot of the 4th and most of the overtime.  His fifth foul was a bad call, but it's hard to argue after the first four.  He was effective when he was in, and the Bulls looked better with him in there, but he wasn't in much until the 4th.
Nocioni-Khryapa in '08

by bullshooter on Oct 31, 2007 10:32 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Kirks fouls
His fifth one was a bad call, as was his first, and his second, the only ones that seemed like real fouls was the one when he was trying to get that loose ball, and the intentional...I thought he was effective when he was in, and he did top jordan in three pointers
im trying hard to become the next kirk hinrich, therefore im doing nothing more than being the next chris duhon.

by piccolomair on Nov 1, 2007 12:08 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

In Defense...
...of the 3 Guard Lineup: New Jersey was also running it with Kidd, Wright and Carter, and I think Jefferson may have even been playing PF for a spell.

That said, yes, let's hope Skiles doesn't get too fond of it again.

by BenGo07 on Oct 31, 2007 10:26 PM CDT   0 recs

True, but it's rarely a good idea to
have the three shortest guys on the court all on your team.  

by Scotter on Oct 31, 2007 10:28 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

if the bulls arent a finals team...
then what team from the east is? the cavs team last year.. ugh i dont see james carrying them again. even when the pistons won it a few years ago they didn't have a bona-fide superstar. billups, big ben, or rich hamilton? Yes all good players, but not of the kobe / duncan / kidd skill level.
Yeah Gordon for Kobe = No brainer.  But if you have to give up a few pieces to get Kobe, then it becomes complicated. Sort of like Boston giving up so many players for KG. Except Chicago's players are actually good lol.

by duaneo88 on Oct 31, 2007 10:27 PM CDT   0 recs

the third quarter and the last play
perfectly typify the BG conundrum.  As hot as he was in the third, he has no magic left for the end of game situations.  Everybody knows he was going to try to get a shot off, and since he can't create for anybody else, the play isn't hard to defend.  I think it's time to put the ball in somebody else's hands with the game on the line.
Nocioni-Khryapa in '08

by bullshooter on Oct 31, 2007 10:29 PM CDT   0 recs

I blame the last play
on Skiles. That is all you could draw up? A pick and roll with 8 seconds left. It did not work last year and won't work this year. Why didn't Kirk have the ball to drive and kick? We should have ran the regular offense and looked for an open shot or gotten to the Foul line. Nice coaching!
It's Go Time Pax!

by Knowledge32 on Nov 1, 2007 7:46 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

last play sucked
I was yelling at TV, not again, not again, move, move, move!

I think Bulls waited to long to start play and from what I remember seeing last year, BenG holding ball until last sec only results in a contested long range shot

when tied, shouldn't the bulls try and get something going towards basket or pass to open shooter, why when they run such a good offense do they make obvious dumb play at end

by NY Chicago Fan on Nov 1, 2007 8:31 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

all of the articles
that I read this morning (my DVR cut off before the end so I didn't see it) said that a man (Noce) was supposed to be cutting towards the basket...when that didn't happen, BG was forced to take the tough shot

So my assumption is that it was drawn up correctly, they just didn't execute it.

by ScottieCartwright on Nov 1, 2007 8:55 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

KC sez
In the recap:
The Bulls had the final possession of regulation, but Gordon, who led the Bulls with 27 points on just 8-of-25 shooting, had to force a 27-footer off a broken play that left coach Scott Skiles screaming at Andres Nocioni.

Maybe he screamed 'YOU JUST EARNED PT FOR THE ENTIRE OVERTIME!'

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 1, 2007 9:02 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

not blaming Ben
Just to clarify, I'm not saying its BenG's fault, I can not tell as I was not in huddle and practice (I assume they PRACTICE these things?).  Maybe it was bad execution and maybe Noc screwed up.  All I know is I everytime they put ball in BenGs hands and wait, wait wait it doesn't seem they ever get a good look.  

Also just because BenG is capable of making that somtimes doesn't mean its a good play, so even if it goes in, I still don't like idea

I'll hope Skills did design something else and the Bulls execute better.  

by NY Chicago Fan on Nov 1, 2007 10:06 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

small brush fire maybe?
I have to disagree...I'd rather have the ball in Ben's hands as the clock winds down than anyone else.

MAYBE Kirk, but that's it.  Those two are your best creators on the team.  Lu is a finisher.

Again, I think the problem with last night's play strictly came down to bad execution on the team (it took all of my might not to single Noce out just then)

by ScottieCartwright on Nov 1, 2007 10:38 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

BenG
I didn't mean to say not to give it to BenG.  I mean don't have him stand at top of the key with the ball until under 10secs then move sideways for a 3 pt shot.

Shouldn't be shooting a 3 if the game is tied unless its open off a pass

I agree Lu is finisher, and didn't rewatch play but don't even remember where he was and I'm sure NJ was defending him so he might have been taken out of play

by NY Chicago Fan on Nov 1, 2007 11:01 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

so was
the play designed for BG to shoot a 3 or for him to pass to the would-be cutter (Noce)?  Sounds like I'm hearing mixed things.

by ScottieCartwright on Nov 1, 2007 11:10 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

it doesn't matter
I don't think BG is going to be able to do either very well in late game situations.
Nocioni-Khryapa in '08

by bullshooter on Nov 1, 2007 12:51 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

'magic'
Another word for clutch? :-)

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 1, 2007 9:37 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

heh
you got me.
Nocioni-Khryapa in '08

by bullshooter on Nov 1, 2007 9:48 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

A Deserving loss.
Agree with joejoe, but I just don't want to actually type it.

Matt, the Nets are better than #9 in the east. They'd be even better IF Carter never shot another jumpshot all year.

  • Yes, Deng was consistent...but quiet!
  • Gordon brought us back in the game in the 3rd, but while Wright was freezing Gordon with sick defense for the rest of the game, Wright HIT OPEN SHOTS. Shots he shouldn't even have.  Why was he so open? I'd like to review that tape. hmm.
  • (Gordon, 6 TOs, huh?) huh?
  • Noc and Hinrich = stupid, stupid fouls.
  •  TT doesn't look any older. Please, let me be wrong.
  • Duhon kept this team together while everyone else was mis-stepping. duhon was consistent, with only 1 poorly chosen shot.
I think we all need to remember that the trade rumors have to be affecting the team. The rumors aren't even focused on 1 bulls player, any player can be traded. These facts have to affect the vibe, the communication, and the concentration of the bulls.

by chicago-homesick-blues on Oct 31, 2007 10:32 PM CDT   0 recs

About Kirk's fouls
Two of them were not fouls at all it was just the stupid refs being decieve by Jefferson accidently slipping too the floor and Hinrich happened to be standing right next to him.

I do agree that Noc had a foul night.

by AngryAsianAce on Oct 31, 2007 10:39 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Blah
The nets are better than ninth seed???? THey shot 4 freakin airballs in a row....the only real points they had in the first quarter were from free throws...seriously, the nets werent as good as they looked, the bulls just played bad. Even with the foul calls, there were too many baskets that should have been cake that were missed, tyrus a few times made layups when he shouldve pounded the ball in, and his layups missed, same with wallace...even deng missed a couple of inside buckets. Hinrich has gotta learn to stay on the good side of refs, and skiles has gotta learn to put in some fresh legs rather than stick with a comfortable line up.
im trying hard to become the next kirk hinrich, therefore im doing nothing more than being the next chris duhon.

by piccolomair on Nov 1, 2007 12:13 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I agree
I've been hating on Duhon all summer and he really looked sharp yesterday.

Joe Smith looks like a gigantic upgrade over PJ and I think given Tyrus' struggles and Smith's smarts, Joe should be our starting PF (I expect the switch to occur soon.

by majoyenrac on Nov 1, 2007 7:53 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Joe
agree, JoeS looked decent

Thomas has to make those easy baskets, even with that said I don't think we should judge him too much on one game, but still doesn't look comfortable out there, although I worry that the only way he will improve is if he keeps playing (downside is that he may never really be that good on offense)

Thabo - not sure what happenned there as he lost his mind on those 2 passes which lead to NJ baskets, I still think Bulls need him

by NY Chicago Fan on Nov 1, 2007 8:27 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Anybody sign an extension?
Nocioni-Khryapa in '08

by bullshooter on Oct 31, 2007 10:34 PM CDT   0 recs

I read on the paper today
Gordon negotiations with the Bulls more or less fell apart. From the sounds of it, the Bulls seemed to have offered more money to Deng. It seems very likely that Gordon will be a restricted free agent next year.

Paxson you got fuckin 13...12 minutes to sign Deng to an extension!!!!!!!!!!!

by AngryAsianAce on Oct 31, 2007 10:47 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Jefferson was a beast &
15 assist for kidd -_-;;;

&

The refs were mental.

by AngryAsianAce on Oct 31, 2007 10:34 PM CDT   0 recs

I feel like the Bulls were more confident against
the Nets tonight than they were last year. They never panicked and actually could easily have won. I think well be fine this season.

by philosoball on Oct 31, 2007 10:35 PM CDT   0 recs

Kind of funny that the Pacers,
who were picked to finish last in pretty much every season preview I saw, get to be on top for at least a day or two.

From the little I saw flipping between games (and recaps seem to confirm it), Cleveland looked pretty bad tonight.

"They had me do a psychology test and I asked Coach Skiles if that affected his coaching. He laughed and said, `No way.'" (Joakim Noah)

by wjb1492 on Oct 31, 2007 10:36 PM CDT   0 recs

Oh Well, Time to feast on Sixers on Friday!
Home Sweet home for the home opener!

Andre Igloodalla (w/e) and his team can't match our lineup.

by AngryAsianAce on Oct 31, 2007 10:44 PM CDT   0 recs

Just did...
... a quick +/- for Tyrus and Nocioni. Ty was +6; Nocioni was -18.

by BenGo07 on Oct 31, 2007 10:45 PM CDT   0 recs

I'm glad the numbers bear out
what I felt watching the game.  I thought if Thomas was playing defense instead of Noc, Noc's 3 pointer wouldn't have even been needed.

by Scotter on Oct 31, 2007 10:47 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Noce was really bad defensively tonight
He looked lost out there most of the time.  And to think Dr. Jack Ramsay picked him to be the Defensive Player of the Year this season.

by Big D on Oct 31, 2007 10:51 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Just realized
I slightly miscalculated (I thought Noce was in during that awful period late in the 2nd.) Still, he ended up -11. And Ty was actually +7

by BenGo07 on Oct 31, 2007 11:05 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

found out NBA.com boxscores have +/-
sweet, right?? It's like a quick fix while waiting for popcornmachine the next morning.

http://www.nba.com/games/20071031/CHINJN/boxscore.html

They have Noc at -12. Second worst, Thabo with -16.

Wallace and Thomas the only ones with + ratings. Somewhere Dave Berri smiles.

And beyond the rebounding, Noc was also roaming on D, especially on that Jefferson 3-pointer...per usual.

I do have to say it's Skiles I should be mad at, not the Noc.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Oct 31, 2007 10:56 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Huh..
...they only have Ty at +3. Must be f*cking up somehow.

by BenGo07 on Oct 31, 2007 11:09 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Well
I wonder if we swapped Noc with Tyrus in the starting lineup if the results would change.  Noc was on the court when Thabo f-d up, and that hurt his effectiveness and Tyrus was on when Gordon went wild.

Fact is that besides a few lapses on defense (and who could blame Nocioni--I'd typically give Jefferson some 3pt tries since shooting has never been his strong point--but the shots just went down), Noc looked decent in the clutch for us where Tyrus looked still like a rookie (I was disappointed in his game after being pumped by his growth all offseason--but I know it's just one game.

I'm tired of the Noc hating here.  It's easy to see why Noc wouldn't have as good of a +/- spread when he's playing the bulk of his minutes with the second unit--and Noc did look rusty at the start of the game.

by majoyenrac on Nov 1, 2007 8:00 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

No you don't
you want them to "be clutch."
Nocioni-Khryapa in '08

by bullshooter on Nov 1, 2007 9:35 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I think getting a chucker out of the lineup
would help them be more active in clutch situations, which is all I ask. If they can't do it, fine...but I don't believe in getting your clutch players the ball, but getting your best players the ball.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 1, 2007 9:37 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

running that last play
with Joe Smith instead of Noc might have been a better idea.
Nocioni-Khryapa in '08

by bullshooter on Nov 1, 2007 9:49 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

maybe
The thing that got me last night was that I partially understood Skiles riding the same lineup until the final posession. Coaches do that. But then why keep everyone out there for the whole overtime?

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 1, 2007 9:56 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

if play
was for Noc to cut to basket, yes I'd rather have Deng or JSmith (hopefully someday Thomas could attack rim) cutting to basket and Noc spotting up for jump shot if they need a kick out

with tied game, I think you need to attack, defense doesn't want to foul (and there was ton of whistles that game, although I know Bulls have history of not getting best calls) and maybe more movement could have led to better put back attempt opportunity

by NY Chicago Fan on Nov 1, 2007 10:13 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I hate all this hate on the word clutch here too
I like this site, but every time I mention clutch you guys go crazy...

Fact is there are several players who play well but do little when the game is on the line.....

Others thrive (Wade, James, Bryant, and I'd say Mr. 4th Qtr can too in Gordon).

Nocioni has thrived for us in the past.  Deng thrived for us only against the Heat (w/Walker) and the thing is that Deng has far more talent than Noc, and now has the hype and the experience, he needs to become that guy.

by majoyenrac on Nov 1, 2007 11:42 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

that's not fair
Nocioni climbed high into the Andes to visit a shaman who bestowed a vile of magic playoff juice (made with the bones of Bryce Drew), and the toenail clippings of John Havlicek for regular season clutchiness. It was a treacherous journey that Deng needs to make himself before being the 'guy'.

by hscs on Nov 1, 2007 11:54 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I watched the Bucks
Sigh.

Now that was a sad, sad, second half.

by KT on Oct 31, 2007 10:46 PM CDT   0 recs

During the game, in pre-game interviews, and
in post-game interviews, the entire team seemed oddly lethargic and detached. Even Skiles appeared to be aloof and apathetic.

by 1958ChiTown on Oct 31, 2007 11:07 PM CDT   0 recs

Maybe.
Although Skiles usually demonstrates some scintilla of intensity.

by 1958ChiTown on Nov 1, 2007 11:09 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I thought Deng...
Looked really good tonight. He was getting into the passing lanes, and seemed to make solid decisions with the ball. The difference between the fouls for Chicago and New Jersey was ridicoulos!

Nocioni on the other hand was the same old Noc. I don't hate the guy, but wish Skiles would use him less.

I see Skiles like the old Polaks in my family. They are completely stubborn, and will not change there minds for anything, no matter how compelling the agruement. It takes a sledge hammer over the head to make them just think about changing course.

by ScottSkilles Hair on Oct 31, 2007 11:08 PM CDT   0 recs

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by sivanjohn on Oct 31, 2007 11:23 PM CDT   0 recs

I figured out why Skiles did what he did...
(I'm trying to get away from the "He's tough, dammit!" idea).

The team was on fire while Thomas was in there. Thomas' typical break time came. Nocioni came in. The team went cold. Seeing this, Skiles wanted more offense so he left Nocioni in.

Skiles failed to see that in this case, it was not purely coincidental. From watching the game, what your typical box-score doesn't show:
--Thomas had to be accounted for on defensive and offensive glass so he was boxed out. Wallace and Thomas were left to one-on-one rebounding. Deng, too.
--Thomas and Wallace each had multiple tip-outs to open guards whose defender's had collapsed on a missed shot.
--After a missed shot, Nocioni was nowhere near the basket. He was often out around the 3 pt line. This meant that Wallace was typically be muscled by two guys around the basket, sometimes as three. Deng was taking a few of those late shots, too, so he wasn't often close to the basket.
--Nocioni was "guarding" Jefferson. This wasn't a huge deal, but it mattered. He did fine a few times (at least once, anyway), but was often out of position. Again, it meant only one rebounder on the defensive end. Thomas may have guarded Jefferson as well, but he could have given more slack, thus help-defending the paint and being in better position to rebound while still having the ability to recover.

It feels funny saying this, but "these are things that don't show up in a box score". But I'm confident the +/- accurately reflects it.

While unconventional, I believe the Wallace and Thomas pair is perfect for this team. The answer to a jump shooting team isn't a slow, post-scoring fool. It's getting rebounders who want to rebound and can rebound. A post-scorer is, almost by definition, going to already be boxed out, even on a kick out. Thomas and Wallace, however, will be looking towards the ball and the hoop, constantly looking for ways to get to the latter.

The fast/2ndary break stuff that sbulls mentioned (and I tried to elaborate on) made sense, but after only one game, Wallace and Thomas together makes even more sense. Allowing Hinrich/Duhon, Gordon and Deng to run around jacking up shots with two guys waiting down low to get it back out to them keeps around just as much "HOT" while reducing the "cold".

Kobe (because of what would have to be given up) is not the answer; more Tyrus Thomas and Ben Wallace together is. In a month or two, I'll gladly accept that I'm wrong if TT is getting 30 mins and they still suck, but I'm not seeing that happening. I think, this year, Thomas could be comparable to Wallace in production if given the minutes (not match, but come close). That's not normal. But neither is trying to win a championship without one or two exceptional players.

I'll finally admit, if Skiles gets out of his own way, this team can do that as currently built.

Yes, of course.

by tyger1147 on Oct 31, 2007 11:37 PM CDT   0 recs

Jesus, sorry I wrote that much.
But it's the first Bulls game I've seen in its entirety in probably three years. And I'm really, really excited about it. It's flawed, but it can be a really, really good team, and those are my reasons why I think so.
Yes, of course.

by tyger1147 on Oct 31, 2007 11:39 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I do also realize that this is a Nets team
w/ a bad front court. And that this isn't the formula for beating every team. But I think it's the best chance this team has without making huge changes. And by "comparable" to Wallace, I mean within roughly 20% in typical statistical categories, with a few more fuckups, but a few more exceptional plays. And I'm not talking four years ago Wallace, but this year's version.
Yes, of course.

by tyger1147 on Oct 31, 2007 11:44 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Nocioni hatred
is completely and utterly unwarranted.  Talk about +- stats all you want, but whoever was on the floor when Ben Gordon went off is gonna have their +- stats helped when they didnt really have anything to do with it on the offensive end.

Nocioni not only hit the big shot to tie the game, but he was hitting in overtime unlike anyone else.  You say you want Thomas in there, fine, but how about you keep Nocioni in and let Deng sit when he was taking the kind of ill advised jumpers you'd hate from Nocioni, including one from the corner drifting out of bounds that led to a fast break basket on the other end.  If Deng is just gonna take jumpers and he's not gonna make them, I have no problem having Nocioni in there, who actually played good D in OT except for the Jefferson play when he left him open, but that was a pick your poison situation anyway.

I see too much on this board about how this team is only going to be great if they have Thomas and Deng in there but if Thomas and Deng can't actually do the things you want them to do, its not that simple.  Thomas did not have a great game, anyone who watched it would know that and we needed Nocioni's offense down the stretch and in OT and Thomas simply could not have provided that.

by JSlakov on Nov 1, 2007 12:09 AM CDT   0 recs

Noc does a lot of good at times
But I hate when any veteran does that half-assed double team (that led to the R Jeff dagger 3pter). Commit to a hard double that forces a TO or difficult pass, or stay home! But he's not the only one, and they weren't gonna win it in OT, in all likelihood.

by marionette on Nov 1, 2007 1:45 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Just looked at the play-by-play
1:07 left in OT, only down 105-102 when they had Deng open, curling the lane, but refs blew whistle on a R Jeff reach. You could see Deng react like "why call that now? I had a pass and clear path for 2pts"! Then Wallace threw a pass off the back of Carter's(?) arm that became the dagger 3.

So I take it back, they could've been in it at the end of OT.

by marionette on Nov 1, 2007 2:52 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

It's not a double team
it's a Hedge. Not Noc's fault, it is the fault of the individual who didn't rotate over fast enough
It's Go Time Pax!

by Knowledge32 on Nov 1, 2007 7:55 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

and besides....
RJ's not a great 3pt shooter, I'd typically give him that shot and focus on help to avoid having Carter-Kidd get to the lane.

Antoinne Wright was the real reason the Nets won (well and of course JKidd) Wright was unbelievably clutch for them hitting big baskets at the end and in OT and in the 3rd quarter he and Natchbar helped counter some of the BG explosion--I just wish when the Nets got cold in the end of the 3rd, we weren't cold with them...

by majoyenrac on Nov 1, 2007 8:03 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Thanks for the info
I've heard of it, the hedge. And it would be like the bunt in baseball for me. Or a prevent defense. I don't usually want to see it used.

Oh well, let's get after the Sixers.

by marionette on Nov 1, 2007 1:49 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I hate that
Nocioni double teams people, or does that half-hearted double team I should say, a LOT.  I don't understand why he would double unless he's actually going to trap the guy and somebody else is ready to rotate to his man.  It was totally unnecessary since Deng was the defender and left his man wide open.  

by bigballa10 on Nov 1, 2007 12:44 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

i agree with you wholeheartedly
I think when Noc stays on his man, he's a good defender, but he is constantly following the ball and leaving his man for wide open looks.....

Yesterday was a slight excuse because RJ isn't very effective from the outside, but even that said after Jefferson started hitting some of his outside shots, Nocioni (and the Bulls coaching staff) should have reminded Noc to stay on him tonight.

by majoyenrac on Nov 1, 2007 2:30 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Did anyone watch ESPN tonight??
A source talked to Deng who said the deal is being held up by Kobe because he wants a good team around him. The trade isn't dead.
''This whole parties out of control!''-Moose

by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on Nov 1, 2007 12:21 AM CDT   0 recs

Tyrus
+/- stats aside, am I the only one who thought Thomas played not so good???? Its not just the missed open shots, but the fact that he couldnt finish near the basket and that he was trying to rely on his athleticism on defense a couple of times and let up easy baskets. Im not saying nocioni was a better option, but I don't understand this Tyrus admiration.  I guess he is better because the bulls do better when he is on the court, but he doesnt look much better than last season and that extra weight hasnt helped him much. I still cringe when  he gets the ball and get excited when i see him leaping for blocks, but he isn't looking too good. Aldridge on the other hand....sorry i wont do that one again.

by Sambossanova on Nov 1, 2007 12:27 AM CDT   0 recs

I don't think he played that well
but he's the better player overall, and he didn't play bad.

Only 1 TO in 22 minutes. So...if he keeps that up he's improved. I don't know why anyone would've expected him to be a drastically different player. His 'young mistakes' (or whatever everyone says he does) is that he blew a couple of layups that he normally makes. Took one jumpshot from what I remember.

I can't comment on your defensive evaluations, I didn't notice any overpursuing or leaving his feet too often, but I wasn't looking for it either.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 1, 2007 9:09 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

coming back a few hours later
and reading some of the crap I posted...WOW. I didnt know i got so carlos-zambrano-in-the-heat-of-the-momment-esque. If i do that again, please, somebody give me a virtual kick to the junk.
SAY NO TO THE CHICAGO LAKERS!

by hongydraw on Nov 1, 2007 1:32 AM CDT   0 recs

Gordon had a real good game
at BOTH ends, surprisingly. But he's not G Arenas, and Skiles is my choice for goat by calling a final (reg) play that had to degenerate into BG one on one vs Carter, when the screen man simply showed. I didn't see anyone for BG to pass to, and there was no