More on Skiles and his star pupil

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Oct 3, 2007 6:55 PM CDT in News Comment 15 comments

Beyond today's pot-shot gem, there were other words from Skiles on Tyrus Thomas.

It's no stretch to identify Thomas as the player who could do the most to make the Bulls a championship contender. They were a different team when Thomas brought his off-the-charts athleticism to the floor, as evidenced by the Bulls' 26-5 record in games when the 6-foot-9 forward played at least 15 minutes.

"The guy gets in the game, dunks a couple balls, everyone gets (excited)," coach Scott Skiles said. "I do, too, because I agree there are only a handful of guys that can jump like that and block shots like he can. But we also are dependent on the scheme we run and everybody being on the same page. He's getting there."

Skiles suggested Thomas still needs to get in better shape, though he's taken a step forward from where he was at the start of his first training camp. The Bulls wanted Thomas to build more strength in his legs to avoid the tendinitis he felt during the Orlando summer league in July.

"He's still learning what it takes to be a great player and all that," Skiles said. "Some of the things that are weaknesses in his game, he needs to turn that around. He needs to be more consistent."

Thomas figures to have the best chance to start at power forward this season, but it's not a sure thing. The Bulls could also use Noah, Andres Nocioni or veteran addition Joe Smith.

"That spot is up for grabs between a few guys," Skiles said. "He'll have equal opportunity to earn it just like everyone else will."

Emphases mine.

I guess the big 'news' is that McGraw believes Tyrus is the frontrunner for the starter's job. Despite 'equal opportunity' talk from Skiles, we know that if anything that 'opportunity', if given in the first place, lasts until the first turnover. But it's interesting to hear from someone that it's a possibility, anyway. I am actually not too hung up on Tyrus starting, at least until he proves he can cut down on fouls and turnovers. But he needs minutes, and maybe minutes with the best players is best for him and the team.

The one quote about being 'dependent on the scheme' from Skiles did irk me though. I long for a day when the Bulls are dependent on talent, and the scheme supplements it, not supplants it.

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I agree about tailoring the scheme to the talent

but Tyrus needs to be consistent, too.

Nocioni-Khryapa in '08

by bullshooter on Oct 3, 2007 11:08 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Scheme

it will always be a debatable topic because have their place. However, I don't think it will hurt Tyrus (now or long-term) to place an emphasis on learning how to perform within the confines of team-play. I say this not because I think Tyrus is selfish, but rather, because he has little worry about in the atheleticism department. I also would agree with Skiles' comments on working out. The media day photos showed a lot of players that clearly work out hard in the off-season (Lu, Ben, other Ben and even Kirk) and Thomas did not have the appearance of working out.
Maybe he did and I'm blind to it. But, if he didn't, it would be an easy way to improve his chances.
Either way, I'm behind Skiles on this issue. Thomas can only benefit from learning how to function within a system as the knock on him has always been one of experience and fundamentals, not explosiveness and raw talent. If he is serious about improving and growing and being part of the team, then he needs to take those steps.

"...Keeping 'SlowHand' alive since aught-five"

by CookDing on Oct 4, 2007 7:55 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

"confines of team-play"

is fine, it's when the coach thinks the confines of the coach's genius (i.e. starting Duhon over Gordon) that things can get troublesome. The little engine that could 'cuz of Skiles is a shabby philosophy.

Your powers of observation are pretty impressive if you can tell who did and didn't work out from photographs of these guys standing around. Getting better at basketball doesn't mean there's going to be an obvious physical transformation either.

by hscs on Oct 4, 2007 8:51 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Agreed

on what you have to say about a coach's ego and how it could cause trouble.
As for 'powers of observation'
"...and Thomas did not have the appearance of working out.
Maybe he did and I'm blind to it. But, if he didn't, it would be an easy way to improve his chances."
My point was not that Thomas is not a team player or that he has not worked out or that Skiles isn't hard-headed to the detriment of the team; my point is that Tyrus seems pretty far ahead in the raw physical talent department and that he could make the greatest strides by focusing on other aspects of his game - namely team-play and prepping his body for the "grind" of a full season. If he's doing that then I'm glad to be wrong.
Maybe Tyrus busted his ass in the weightroom and is considerably stronger, maybe he spent the offseason huddled away in a dark room watching film of the offense-obviously, I don't know. Ben, Luol and Kirk are players that have appeared to me to get stronger. That being said, I appreciate you pointing out that I could be wrong.
I agree, lifting weights does not guarantee an improvement. It just seems like something that is more likely to be beneficial than it is harmful. ...especially for a young player.

"...Keeping 'SlowHand' alive since aught-five"

by CookDing on Oct 4, 2007 12:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

good point

Basketball is way behind other sports in terms of physical fitness. Why college coaches don't stress being physically elite has always struck me as odd.

by hscs on Oct 4, 2007 12:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Oh no

I disagree wholeheartedly, "Basketball" possesses incredible physical fitness. "Golf", "Wakeboarding" and "Abstract Generality" don't dedicate half as much time on their physique's as does "Basketball". Hopefully, "PF Bulls" follows suit.

"...Keeping 'SlowHand' alive since aught-five"

by CookDing on Oct 4, 2007 1:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

i did say "physically elite"

Obviously NBA players are fit, but the line between most rookies and most veterans appears to be pretty huge. There aren't many Maggette/Gordon/Willis/Arenas type workout freaks, something that's common for the NFL.

by hscs on Oct 4, 2007 1:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Tell me about it

I'm an IU fan that has recently rooted for such physically imposing locker-room stalwarts as Bracey Wright, Kirk Haston and, the 45 Million Dollar man, Jared Jeffries (that's right, 44 more millions than Ted DeBiase). I still fondly remember Zach Randolph absolutely pasting Jeffries in the post during the High School State Championship. What I wouldn't give to see what happens between the two during practice..... ..especially when the interns are hanging around.
Sorry, I sometimes have hard time deciphering the fine line between your sarcasm and genuine dialogue.

"...Keeping 'SlowHand' alive since aught-five"

by CookDing on Oct 4, 2007 1:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

HSCS = Always sarcastic

by paxson43 on Oct 4, 2007 7:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Is this different than everybody needing to know

how to run the triangle in order for it to work? Last year it seemed like when the scheme broke down, alot of the time he just gave the ball to Gordon and told him to try and score every time down. We'll see, but this month is going to drive me crazy. I don't think I've ever been more excited about a NBA season.

And offensively, I think the team is more dependent on generating fastbreak points than anything else. Deng, Hinrich, Gordon, and Thomas are all at their best pushing the ball on the break. And Thomas helps generate those fastbreaks.

by Scotter on Oct 4, 2007 11:05 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

scheme; import a post-scorer vs. growing your own

I've generally liked Skiles and the job he does with the team. I assumed he does drive & kick as well as any coach in the league, and that his offensive sets were creatively adapted around the team's weakness in inside scoring. But I wonder if devotion to his "scheme" might limit inside scoring instead of just compensate for it. Sam Smith has wondered a few times if the Bulls should get a big man's coach, that Skiles tends to approach the game from only a guard's point of view. That might've just been Sam, but a recent column had an interesting Johnny Bach quote about Skiles:

he doesn't like the post game. He'll flash guys in there, but he likes dribble penetration, pitch and pass...Whether you had Tyson Chandler with his bad hands or Eddy Curry, you have to commit to it.

And here I thought Skiles appreciated scoring in the post as well as anyone but just didn't have the personnel right now. I don't know much about the coaching staff and what they do with their big men (or how they worked w/ Chandler & Curry). But is the coaching staff & scheme designed to develop an inside game?

by T Maple on Oct 4, 2007 5:12 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Does it matter?

The motion offense the Bulls run is not designed to create post ups. But, low post scoring will have very little to do with whether this team wins a championship. Skiles gave Eddy his fair share of chances, and kept throwing Sweetney out there and posting him up. But, I don't blame Skiles for not being in love with throwing it into the post and watching the other four guys stand around outisde the 3-point line.

by Scotter on Oct 4, 2007 5:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think so.

What will have to do with winning a championship then? The team plays great defense, rebounds okay, and has a decent (if not the most efficient) offense.

It doesn't have to be an either-or thing: a Skiles team will probably always feature that share-the-ball offense that we love to watch. But what happens when the jumpers aren't falling? An inside scoring option would help--unless the team gets a player that can consistently create his own offense, get a high-percentage shot, or get to the line. But they don't really have anyone like that--Ben may be close, but Deng's not there yet.

by T Maple on Oct 4, 2007 6:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

See my recent diary for a more complete answer

But to summarize, better frontcourt players that can finish and rebound better. And players turning the ball over less. Post play would help, but a lack of athletic and talented frontcourt players who could finish and rebound was the team's biggest issue. And it's an issue that was directly addressed this offseason. Eventually players like Deng will develop enough post skills to exploit a mismtatch, but I doubt it will ever be a signifiant part of the offense. And it doesn't have to be because the offense as it is generates plenty of inside scoring opportunities without post ups.

by Scotter on Oct 4, 2007 6:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Joe Smith starts at PF right?

I mean Skiles isn't going to start TT. He still has a ways to go before he understands what is going on. Because of the emphasis on training at UF I think Noah will play more minutes that TT assuming Noah's shoulder is OK.

by haze on Oct 5, 2007 8:47 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs