Doomsday averted

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Oct 24, 2007 11:35 PM CDT in News Comment 63 comments

(with apologies to Ron Huberman)

I was going to take more shots at Skiles for potentially starting Aaron Gray tomorrow (and thus indicating he'd be in the starting lineup). On the one hand it's been two days of it already, but I'll say that TYI's post on the subject is not completely overreacting. Rotations have been a real problem in a lot of our minds in Skiles' tenure, and as Pax accumulates more talented players it only makes the potential problems worse. Skiles was looking like a toddler who gets a bunch of sweet toys for Christmas, but instead plays with the cardboard box they came in.

But I look at the KC's late night (early) report, and lo and behold: "Skiles giving Thomas shot"

Kirk Hinrich and Ben Gordon at guard, Luol Deng and Tyrus Thomas at forward and Ben Wallace at center.

Those five, according to multiple players, were the first unit at Wednesday's practice.

::wipes forehead::

Alright, that's good news. But KC's report is full of little things that irk me:

Thomas had fumbled his first opportunity at the starting power forward position, paving the way for the surprising emergence of rookie Aaron Gray.

I thought Tyrus had a fine preseason, actually. No he didn't look drastically improved, but he was doing what he usually does, which is good enough to keep his job.

[Joe] Smith offers veteran experience, always a plus for a Bulls team that faces an extended road trip each November. But starting Smith also could leave the reserve unit vulnerable beyond Andres Nocioni and Chris Duhon in terms of experience.

Thabo Sefolosha has looked solid in back-to-back games since returning from a strained right hamstring. But he's still a second-year player prone to trying to do too much.

Panic response: Duhon will be first off the bench :-)

And I don't understand that line about having veterans off the bench. If Joe Smith's the guy you want with the starters, don't hold him back because he's old. It's not like all these bench guys will run in together, and if you're already talking about 2 of them (Noc and Duh) being veterans, that's not enough?

Thomas and rookie Joakim Noah offer energy and athleticism but also lapses and occasional breakdowns.

I always enjoy the persistent reminder that young players need to get yanked for mistakes.

Skiles doesn't typically hit on his regular rotation until deep into the season, often going 10 to 12 players deep. So the emphasis on the starting lineup perhaps isn't as pronounced as with other teams.

Well, this was the famed 'summer of continuity'. There's very few players to break in here, and Skiles shouldn't be racking his dome and throwing rotations at the wall to see what sticks, and letting it get in the way of winning games early. As it's happened in the past. Not that it didn't help eventually to use that time learning what the team had, but this year's supposedly different.

To close with good news:

"We have plenty of days of rest and practice in between [Thursday and the opener]," Skiles said. "So there's no reason we can't put some minutes on some guys."

That includes Gordon and Deng, the latter returning to a full practice after missing four days with a bruised right wrist.

And an olive branch for Graytorade drinkers of the world:

Whether he starts or not, Gray has worked himself into the rotation.

This had little to do with Aaron Gray. It's Skiles. Cheers to him if he's held off his insatiable need to fiddle with the lineup. Instead set it up based on what we've seen last season, and if the rookies earn their way up then so be it.

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So Thomas and Noah

Suffer "lapses and occasional breakdowns" . . . but Aaron Gray doesn't? He's not a young player too?

It's pretty interesting that Skiles changed his mind on this after one day. I wonder if Pax had a little talk with him.

by Big D on Oct 24, 2007 11:52 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Really I think he was just taking a look

just to make sure starting Tyrus is the right move. Knowing Skiles everyone with get minutes soon than later.

Ohhhh man Holloween night Bulls play the revamped NJ Nets with Malik Allen!

I think the Bulls have a bone to pick with NJ! You know that game really pissed me off! They were starting to get National attention and people were talking NBA Finals! Then it all came crashing down. That was a frustrating night!

''This whole parties out of control!''-Moose

by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on Oct 24, 2007 11:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'm going with a few buddies

and they're giving away Nenad Krstic jerseys to everyone. Nenad. Krstic.

by Freethefro on Oct 25, 2007 7:39 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'll be there too!

I wasn't aware that they were giving away Nenad Joizy's... I guess that's cool. Where are you sitting?

The Future is bright!

by Goostafer on Oct 25, 2007 1:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Cool man

I'm not sure where I'll be sitting (tickets come via school) but I'm glad we won't be the only pocket of Bulls fans. And yeah - Nenad Krstic. Never thought I'd wear that jersey, but hey.

by Freethefro on Oct 25, 2007 2:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Well look for me,

I'll be in the middle of the 122 section. I'll be the guy (and my girl) with the Jordan 11s and the Gordon jersey, (gotta wear it as much as possible just in case).

The Future is bright!

by Goostafer on Oct 25, 2007 3:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Nets got Magloire too

Can he step it up towards his former all-star form with J-Kid?

by AngryAsianAce on Oct 25, 2007 3:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I love this

do you sneak into Bulls practices? If not, then how do you know that Gray working himself into the rotation is just Skiles wacky quirks and maybe Gray has just worked really hard and has, gasp, become an NBA level player?

I know as little as you do about whether Gray will be able to succeed and help this team or not but I really don't think you're qualified to say that he hasn't earned a spot in the rotation and that its being handed to him because Skiles love goofy white dudes like himself or something.

by JSlakov on Oct 24, 2007 11:54 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

rotation? fine

you shouldn't be able to earn a starting job in preseason in your rookie year, leapfrogging several candidates. Maybe Aaron Gray is dominating in practice though, you're right I wouldn't be able to see those clinics. Duhon's the goofiest whitiest dude out there.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Oct 25, 2007 8:12 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

well

he did go to Duke

by JSlakov on Oct 25, 2007 9:44 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Stuckney broke his hand.

''This whole parties out of control!''-Moose

by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on Oct 25, 2007 12:07 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Is it a good news?

Honestly

by Azabullsfan on Oct 25, 2007 2:46 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Sue... long story on Tyler Smith

Here.

One site has him on the Bulls next year so the rest of you can read it, too.

Yes, of course.

by tyger1147 on Oct 25, 2007 3:31 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

I wish Tyler

the best. He is a great player. That is sad about his dad.

Racecar spelled backwards is racecar.

by sue369 on Oct 25, 2007 7:36 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Why would we draft

another guy who's 6'7"?

by KT on Oct 25, 2007 7:49 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Are those tats of tears on his face?

Does he know thats gang for I killed someone?

''This whole parties out of control!''-Moose

by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on Oct 25, 2007 8:30 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

huh??

what "gang" have you been around because that's not what that means man

by ScottieCartwright on Oct 25, 2007 8:37 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Wow,

you stomping your feet and holding your breath worked after all. :-)

Racecar spelled backwards is racecar.

by sue369 on Oct 25, 2007 7:27 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Assuming BG and Deng

are healthy, the Bulls team opening this season is better than any team they put on the floor last year. Tyrus is definitely improved over last season. He's bigger, stronger. He's not crowing after every block and dunk. He seems much more into the game and less into his own personal performance. Deng has added a few new wrinkles to his game--as well as gotten stronger. Kirk has gotten stronger. I haven't seen enough of BG yet make any statement s about his play, but I think the bench may be the most improved part of the team.

by alec on Oct 25, 2007 9:50 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

One week til tipoff

and you are already in midseason form, Matt.

Nocioni-Khryapa in '08

by bullshooter on Oct 25, 2007 10:37 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

This article

is about Skiles and Thomas.

http://www.dailyherald.com:80/story/?id=61777

Racecar spelled backwards is racecar.

by sue369 on Oct 25, 2007 10:48 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

that was linked

in the first day of Gray-gate (Grayte?)

A bit buried in there, though.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Oct 25, 2007 10:56 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Sorry

Racecar spelled backwards is racecar.

by sue369 on Oct 25, 2007 11:03 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

just an FYI

apology accepted :-)

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Oct 25, 2007 11:07 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I totally agree with you about Skiles

I think the main problem is that the Bulls have an overload of talented players Skiles can toy with and the problem is . . . HE DOES.

That's the main reason I hope that the Bulls pull off some blockbuster trade that allows them to have more of a set rotation, thus give the players a little more confidence knowing if they make a mistake, they won't be yanked right away.

Call me crazy but I wish the Bulls to have the best starting 5 in basketball instead of the deepest team.

by Option27 on Oct 25, 2007 10:54 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

This is for wjb and KT

This is a clip of Kirk from his high school days. Who knew he was a dunking machine? LOL!!

http://sports.aol.com/fanhouse/2007/10/19/the-surpringly-good-kirk-hinrich-mixtape/

Racecar spelled backwards is racecar.

by sue369 on Oct 25, 2007 10:54 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Awesome Video

Kirk was crazy good in high school but he should have been. It was a surprise to see him dunk it as much as he did.

by SRQman on Oct 25, 2007 1:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Cool!

Thanks, Sue - that was fun!

I have no idea if this story is true - a friend of mine went to high school in Iowa when Kirk would have been in school, and he said Kirk's team was coming to play his school's team on night and everyone was excited to see the "stud Kansas recruit." Anyway, he said a bunch of guys were riding Kirk before the game, Kirk got pissed off and flipped them the bird, and some ref booted him before the game ever started. He was telling me this while we watched that clip. Anyway, it made me laugh.

"They had me do a psychology test and I asked Coach Skiles if that affected his coaching. He laughed and said, `No way.'" (Joakim Noah)

by wjb1492 on Oct 25, 2007 7:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I know a guy

who played AAU ball against Kirk and he said Kirk was a real jerk. That doesn't surprise me what your friend says. It's probably true.

Racecar spelled backwards is racecar.

by sue369 on Oct 25, 2007 7:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'm so disappointed

but maybe he's grown out of being a jerk. ;) But it's what happens when everyone tells you you're a star unless you've got someone around who tells you so what?

by KT on Oct 25, 2007 8:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'm just going to rephrase

jerk as possessing defensive intensity.

Seriously, seems like most high school jerks grow into relatively decent human beings - I'd like to think I did. :)

"They had me do a psychology test and I asked Coach Skiles if that affected his coaching. He laughed and said, `No way.'" (Joakim Noah)

by wjb1492 on Oct 25, 2007 8:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'm sure he's

outgrown the jerkiness and is a nice person.

Racecar spelled backwards is racecar.

by sue369 on Oct 25, 2007 8:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'm going to laugh my BUTT off

if Gray gets the nod to start.
And if it's TT or Smith, well then that's fine too.

I'll take whatever they give us and LIKE it.

Because the bottom of it, is that Skiles IS the coach regardless of any issues people have with him, and there ain't DIDDLY anyone here can do about it and that's life kids.

Is it spring training yet?

by Bluelou on Oct 25, 2007 12:13 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

And you use bold because...

...there are some here who think they can do something about it?

Yes, of course.

by tyger1147 on Oct 25, 2007 12:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

oh god, shut up.

If you have that an issue with those who criticize the team while knowingly having no actual influence, then just leave. Just watch games in an abandoned well by yourself. Maybe a well filled with water, for humanity's sake.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Oct 25, 2007 12:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Ha!

now, that is what I pay good money for.. ...everybody else pays Matt, right?

"...Keeping 'SlowHand' alive since aught-five"

by CookDing on Oct 25, 2007 2:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

If we talk about improved Thomas

You can check video of Blazers-Sonicks preseason game,where Lamarkus Alldridge scored 31 points.THAT"S improvment.I watched the video and I"m
like "was Pax right when he let Alldridge go?"
I mean no offense,I like Ty alot,but imagine if Alldridge plays for Bulls?

by Azabullsfan on Oct 25, 2007 12:24 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

I like to imagine

a BaB comment thread that isn't chock full of preseason overreactions.

by hscs on Oct 25, 2007 12:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Preseason counts

Can Thomas and Khryapa combined score 31 points in ANY PRESEASON game?I would be very happy to see that.

by Azabullsfan on Oct 25, 2007 12:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

what message board booted you?

by hscs on Oct 25, 2007 12:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

and did they crush your typing fingers

before doing so?

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Oct 25, 2007 12:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Aldrige is really good

but Tyrus doesn't get to play as much as him because of all the talent around him and the short leesh Skiles has on him. If Tyrus got to play as much as Lamarcus, he be putting up stellar stats.

by Option27 on Oct 25, 2007 12:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Aldridge scored 31 in 41 minues. Thomas scored

10 in 16 minutes on Tuesday. Even taking these two preseason games as our sample, Thomas would have scored 26 in 41 minutes. Give Thomas one more made shot in Tuesday's game (12 in 16 minutes) and it works out to 30 in 41 minutes.

So per minute, even in this very small sample, Thomas isn't much different than Aldridge. And Thomas had better overall stats than Aldridge last year.

I don't regret trading Aldridge at all, I just want Thomas to go from average to great, or at least, this year, to well above average, like Deng last year. Thomas's college stats indicate he could achieve that level, but last year's stats raise doubts.

by Tim S. on Oct 25, 2007 1:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I hope it's only minutes issue

And hope Skiles give more playing time to TT.I just like the way Alldridge put those numbers:strong inside,nice jump hooks(that's what TT needs to work on also).

by Azabullsfan on Oct 25, 2007 3:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

difference?

The difference is that aldridge is a polished basketball player now, albeit not a very good one. Thomas on the other hand, doesn't seem to have his shit under control for the most part. If he sticks to what he does best and he does it very well, he is great to have in the line up (dunk, block, altering a shot). Otherwise, anytime Thomas needs to set a pick, drive a jumper or dribble, I hold my breath. Its like watching a mistake waiting to happen. I think everyone expected to him to have smoothed out a lot of those rough edges and he hasnt done much but bulk up and maybe work on his shot a tiny bit.

by Sambossanova on Oct 25, 2007 6:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

fine, but

I'm not going to want a player just because he makes me feel better.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Oct 25, 2007 6:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I see Bogut

injured his wrist and is out for tonight's game.

by alec on Oct 25, 2007 12:51 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Not sure if this was already put,

but congrats Matt:

If you got some quality time with your team's GM (like those lucky dudes from 3 Shades of Blue), what would you ask?

Matt, BlogaBull.com:

I'd want to first say thanks to John Paxson for bailing out Horace Grant in 1993.

on ESPN NBA 30 preview Bulls page

"My jumper's so smooth it will seduce your girlfriend." -1958ChiTown

by NittanyBull on Oct 25, 2007 1:10 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

heh, thanks

my 100 words are just a summarized version of the cranky shit I've been saying here the past few days. Although I believe I wrote it before Grayte.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Oct 25, 2007 1:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

oh, and as traffic cop

I've put the link up here, for those who want to discuss.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Oct 25, 2007 1:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Smith vs Thomas

For the benefit of those who didn't have League Pass, and get to watch the 76ers last year, we haven't seen half of what Joe Smith can bring to the Bulls. He is capable of being a 10 point, 7 rebound player every night. He is a very effective stand up shooter who should thrive playing the role formerly played by Malik Allen & P.J.Brown. Of course that assumes he's healthy and unfortunately he has a long history of leg problems.

As for Tyrus, 2nd Yr players usually struggle at the start of the season to match the performance level they were at at the end of their rookie year. Some of it may just be fan perception, (we remember the improvement and tend to discount the still existing mistakes), but I think it's also because they forget just how much faster and intense the regular season is compared to preseason.
This is especially true of very young players like Tyrus. I expect to see games where we wonder if he forgot everything he learned last year. That's why if healthy Joe Smith will end up the starting 4 until we get to about game 20-25.

By that point Tyrus will be the more productive player and be playing the majority of the minutes even if he continues to come off the bench.
In the long run the second unit would seem to need a consistent shooter like Smith more than the starters.

I predicted 51 wins last year and I will be disappointed if we don't exceed that number this year. It won't be easy because except for Indiana, Detroit & Cleveland every team in the East looks improved, and Det & Clev will still be very good.

Ye OldeBull

by OldeBull on Oct 25, 2007 1:44 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Dont forget Toronto

They are the team that scares me the most and I believe has the most potential other than the Bulls in the east.

by AngryAsianAce on Oct 25, 2007 3:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Maybe its premature, but I am almost assuming

the Bulls will be in the Finals this year. (Should of last year but they choked the first three games away to Detroit). I kind of wish we were in the Western Conference so we could get a better handle on where we stand against the REAL teams in the league.

by philosoball on Oct 25, 2007 2:06 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

They "choked" the first three games?

Sure, you could say they choked in Game 3, but the first two games were just complete ass-kickings from the opening tipoff. They never had a chance to win those games, so I don't know if you can call that choking.

by Big D on Oct 25, 2007 3:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Well, of course its hard to say that a team choked

for three games, but didn't you feel like the Bulls kind of didn't get their sea legs until the fourth game. It was like a fight where the worse guy get's in a good shot at the beginning and the other guy never gets a chance to show his skill. I think that's why it the psychological aspect of the players is as important as the physical. This year the Bulls should be the BULLIES in the East.

by philosoball on Oct 25, 2007 3:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I prefer the Eastern Conference.

I would rather see the Bulls play teams at about their own level and perhaps advance to the finals rather than get regularly crushed by several better teams. At some point they have to improve in order to win a championship, but coming from the weaker conference is a tremendous advantage as they attempt to improve.

by Tim S. on Oct 26, 2007 12:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs