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Preseason open thread: Bulls at Mavericks

That's right, PRESEASON.

160 comments of Aaron Gray talk and I'm convinced that half of you are at best overthinking things and at worst insane. I'm a little crazy myself for taking Skiles at his word and overreacting in the first place, but I have a lot of lingering psychological issues over Chris Duhon that's difficult to overcome.

But it was a fun day, anyway.

So...it all comes down to this. If Aaron Gray takes the ball and deftly lays it in during the first posession, shriek with delight and call me names. Apparently that's all it takes to get impressed with a new Bull: be tall and make a layup.

I'll still say it's preseason and the games don't count, none of this means anything, and Skiles is just yanking our collective chain to tick off Thomas and Noah and Smith and, heck, even Nocioni. Well played you combovered savant, got us good!

(I still say that if Gray's performance tonight matters in the least we're all in for a long couple months while Skiles 'figures things out'. guh.)

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Tyrus or Joakim
Better step it up just to end all this Gray talk

by Option27 on Oct 23, 2007 5:40 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Put on your
big girl panties and deal with it.
Racecar spelled backwards is racecar.

by sue369 on Oct 23, 2007 6:15 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

What does combovered mean?
"My jumper's so smooth it will seduce your girlfriend." -1958ChiTown

by NittanyBull on Oct 23, 2007 6:19 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

combovered
I'm pretty sure he means 'comb-overed'. I first read it as 'combo-vered' as well. Aaron Gray: Pre-season MVP?
I vaguely remember a 'jordan' something...

by boyonthedock on Oct 23, 2007 6:24 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ah, I see
"My jumper's so smooth it will seduce your girlfriend." -1958ChiTown

by NittanyBull on Oct 23, 2007 6:29 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

lol
I actually read it as com-bovered and was totally confused for a sec.  It's been that kind of day, so I could use a really sharp game from the guys!
"They had me do a psychology test and I asked Coach Skiles if that affected his coaching. He laughed and said, `No way.'" (Joakim Noah)

by wjb1492 on Oct 23, 2007 7:38 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

And I will be watching out for Khryapa
in my first game viewing.  His passing was fun to watch last season, so I will enjoy it while it lasts.  

by GWKD on Oct 23, 2007 6:29 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Skiles is just playing mind games
I'd be shocked to see Gray in the starting lineup on opening night.  I'm more interested in seeing what Gordon can do tonight after being on the shelf for two weeks.
I love you Ben, you almost make me forget about...tacos.

by eddiew23 on Oct 23, 2007 6:36 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

As long as he's not getting tanked like Duhon
The night before a game, I think Gray will be coming off the bench long before our drunken Dukie does.
I love you Ben, you almost make me forget about...tacos.

by eddiew23 on Oct 23, 2007 6:42 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sometimes I don't get Skiles at all
Wallace on Dirk?  The only worse matchup would be Gray on Dirk.

by Freethefro on Oct 23, 2007 7:44 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Is it fate that Gray scored our first 4 points?
And the only points for that matter....
Is it spring training yet?

by Bluelou on Oct 23, 2007 7:47 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

AG is the reason the Bulls are even in this
right now...
Is it spring training yet?

by Bluelou on Oct 23, 2007 7:49 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

ohhh aaron gray
i thought you ment griffin

by milesgmsu on Oct 24, 2007 9:41 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

He rebounds...he passes...he SHOOTS
AND he makes FT'S!

So what's not to love?

Is it spring training yet?

by Bluelou on Oct 23, 2007 7:52 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

He's good
but it's only 7 minutes in.

I can't lie though, he's playing really well.

He may have read what we were writing in this blog before the game

by Option27 on Oct 23, 2007 7:54 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Geez, no kiddin'! LOL
He kinda reminds me of Luc Longley...seriously.
Is it spring training yet?

by Bluelou on Oct 23, 2007 8:03 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

No...he's been good all pre-season
Like Stacy is saying, he's got much to learn....
But he has been solid.
Is it spring training yet?

by Bluelou on Oct 23, 2007 7:55 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I don't get to watch these games
so I have to ask you guys - does Noah get his shot blocked a lot?

by Freethefro on Oct 23, 2007 8:08 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

no, normally
he gets it stripped before he has the chance to get it blocked.

by alec on Oct 23, 2007 8:13 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

he gets it stripped
HA!   :-)
Is it spring training yet?

by Bluelou on Oct 23, 2007 8:15 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

My feed sucks tonight
"They had me do a psychology test and I asked Coach Skiles if that affected his coaching. He laughed and said, `No way.'" (Joakim Noah)

by wjb1492 on Oct 23, 2007 8:15 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Smith not so hot....
The replacements aren't doin' so hot either
Is it spring training yet?

by Bluelou on Oct 23, 2007 8:18 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Did Khryapa
steal Noc's no-conscience pills?
Or is he the Bulls' new black hole?

by james@lifeinthecell on Oct 23, 2007 8:18 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Khryapa
Doesn't seem to have improved from last year.
Is it spring training yet?

by Bluelou on Oct 23, 2007 8:25 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Funny thing is
They looked a lot better with Gray in there. Everyone else is playing like shit.

by Option27 on Oct 23, 2007 8:23 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

This team...
...looks out of sorts without Gray on the floor. A really calming influence that kid is, I tells ya.

Maybe Gardner can sort this out.

by BenGo07 on Oct 23, 2007 8:24 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

only 9 points so far in this quarter?
I doubt Skiles would leave BG on the bench for this long if this weren't a preseason game

by james@lifeinthecell on Oct 23, 2007 8:31 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Dirk always gets away with murder...
Pulled big Ben's arm and no call...
Is it spring training yet?

by Bluelou on Oct 23, 2007 8:31 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I'm sure you'll be happy to know
that I missed nearly all of the first half. So I missed Aaron Gray's stellar start and therefore cannot be swayed. Convienient, I know.

There's always the start of the next half...

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Oct 23, 2007 8:35 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

bwahahaha
Diop blocks Gray, and Tyrus gets the ball and tries to jump over him and eventually suceeds

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Oct 23, 2007 8:39 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Naw...he's played good enough to be
a "shoe-in".... get it? a SHOE in?
Bwhahahaha!    :-)
Is it spring training yet?

by Bluelou on Oct 23, 2007 8:41 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Technical on Skiles
Is it spring training yet?

by Bluelou on Oct 23, 2007 8:42 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

thanks

by Freethefro on Oct 23, 2007 8:44 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

i love skiles
getting T'd up in a preseason game

hey do they pay fines for preseason t's?

by milesgmsu on Oct 24, 2007 9:42 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Am I the only one who is concerned that our
offense still looks like dung a week before the season starts?

I am assuming (hoping) it is due to injuries and atypical lineups.

(P.S. Viktor off the bench before TT? Preseason anomoly.)

by 1958ChiTown on Oct 23, 2007 8:48 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

But BG
only played for a short time. Hopefully he will get back to his old self before the season starts. Missed free throws have killed us too.
Racecar spelled backwards is racecar.

by sue369 on Oct 23, 2007 8:50 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

It's the lineup
I don't think this offense works without Deng.  It tends to get pretty static - so when your only one-on-one player (BG) is playing his first game....

by Freethefro on Oct 23, 2007 8:52 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

How many missed layups?
Time for the Mikan drill....

by Freethefro on Oct 23, 2007 9:05 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

This is gonna sound really mean
But I honestly think it's what i feel.

Aaron Gray just looks ugly and like a dork. I think that's why I don't want him starting. It's just aesthetically not pleasing to watch him start.

by Option27 on Oct 23, 2007 9:07 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

yeesh
lame, odd, and old (i'm working on that nickname for the broadcasters) sure can't stop talking about Gray. Emphasising how we'll have to live through his growing pains.

why do we have to? the coaching staff should, in practice, heh.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Oct 23, 2007 9:07 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

oh man
King: "Noah doesn't look as confident down there as Aaron Gray"

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Oct 23, 2007 9:09 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hey Matt -
Check the stats...Gray is second only to Hinrich for total points tonight.

Why do you hate the guy so much?

Is it spring training yet?

by Bluelou on Oct 23, 2007 9:16 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

And that's HIS fault?
Is it spring training yet?

by Bluelou on Oct 23, 2007 9:19 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

My point being that I will judge the rotation
based on team results (i.e. win or loss) as opposed to individual stats.

In any case, Deng is out and it is preseason, so this whole We'll have to see how things go in the regular season.

by 1958ChiTown on Oct 23, 2007 9:22 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

whole conversation is moot
on THAT I agree with you.    
Is it spring training yet?

by Bluelou on Oct 23, 2007 9:26 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I hate having to care about what he does
mostly I just hate the broadcasters in general. But don't spend the whole game talking about the maturation of Aaron Gray.

Then again it's preseason so you can't spend too much time on Gordon's ankle...

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Oct 23, 2007 9:20 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well in all honesty
Gray has been one of the few highlights tonight.
Not throwing out the "awesome" kudos on the guy, but he IS showing promise.

And commentators get paid to talk about positive team players during games...

Is it spring training yet?

by Bluelou on Oct 23, 2007 9:24 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Who's lame
Wayne?  Or Stacy?

Someday I'll here King on a broadcast and know.

Scott Williams, btw, has been hired by the Bucks broadcasting network.  I wonder how he is.......

by KT on Oct 23, 2007 9:14 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

The team just looks lathargic tonight
AND the refs are giving Dirk and his boys all the benefit (as usual) of the doubt...
Is it spring training yet?

by Bluelou on Oct 23, 2007 9:08 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I'm glad this is just a meaningless preseason game
because the Bulls look like crap.

And the rotation is killing me.

by 1958ChiTown on Oct 23, 2007 9:11 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Skiles is concerned about balancing lineups
for offense and defense.

so why do I see Duhon/Thabo/Gardner/Thomas/Noah?

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Oct 23, 2007 9:19 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

yay, Noah looked good there
I want this race for the starting spot to have more ebb and flow than the hinkley springs race on the jumbotron. Every play matters.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Oct 23, 2007 9:21 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

and Tyrus witn a spectacular drive/layup
now, he should be the starter. subject to change.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Oct 23, 2007 9:27 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Maybe I am completely biased (its possible), but
Tyrus doesn't seem lazy or apathetic to me. He plays good defense (couple of steals), gets to the boards, draws a tremendous number of fouls, and gets a few baskets. What more do you want out of the PF spot at this point?

by 1958ChiTown on Oct 23, 2007 9:26 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

What more do you want
I want perfection - no fouls, 100% shooting, make all FT's, etc...

LOL   :-)

Is it spring training yet?

by Bluelou on Oct 23, 2007 9:29 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think he's had a fine preseason too
That's (one of) my major beefs with this surge in Graytorade (credit to the realgm forum)...it's not like Gray is even outperforming Tyrus, let alone drastically, which I hope it would at least take to supplant his place in the starting discussion.

The stuff about the summer (which is overblown to the point to now he's portrayed as doing nothing) has nothing to do with Aaron Gray, just about Tyrus being a better player himself.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Oct 23, 2007 9:29 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

he's had a fine preseason too
He doesn't appear to much improvement over last year.

And you know Skiles - he HATES when a player doesn't give 100% effort. And Thomas didn't help his case by giving that impression, at least, by pulling what he did over the summer.

Gray's just a rookie who is playing very well and keeps his mistake level down.

That is a recipe for a love fest from Skiles.

Is it spring training yet?

by Bluelou on Oct 23, 2007 9:37 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

just because I understand WHY Skiles does this
doesn't make it less annoying.

I can't officially be mad until opening night. Fair enough.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Oct 23, 2007 9:58 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Obviously,
someone who is really outgoing and plays nice with the media.  It's a little known secret that these are the true qualities of a "super-star" PF.  ;)
"They had me do a psychology test and I asked Coach Skiles if that affected his coaching. He laughed and said, `No way.'" (Joakim Noah)

by wjb1492 on Oct 23, 2007 9:33 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

according to KC
Gray is a cliche machine. Not to steal HSCS's thunder (I wouldn't dare), but that's an even better way to endear yourself to management than being affable.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Oct 23, 2007 10:04 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

don't worry, Skiles is just experimenting
We know stuff like this doesn't carry over into the start of the season.

nah, it carries over to mid-January ;-)

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Oct 23, 2007 9:57 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Unfortunately, I heard Skiles'
pregame comment saying these games would look more like the regular rotation.  Which didn't help my impression of this game or my mood.  After months of writing about rotations and seeing what I thought was positive signs in the preseason with how Tyrus and Duhon were used, I got my hopes up.  But, it still ends up being the same old shit.  Skiles and his love of predictably medicore play.  I'm going to hope Thursday's rotations look a whole lot different.  

by Scotter on Oct 23, 2007 10:18 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

ugh
I missed the first half, but the 2nd half rotation was awful.

Obviously, having Luol in the mix makes things a lot different.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Oct 23, 2007 10:20 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I did learn
Thomas Garnder can shoot. No red ticket in his locker, as far as I'm concerned.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Oct 23, 2007 9:56 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

In my mind that makes him good
Noc injury insurance.  There were times last spring, where the team seemed to need for an extra 3-point shooter

by Scotter on Oct 23, 2007 10:03 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

ok, we have a winner
Gray: 15min, 2-6fg, 3-4ft, 4rebs, 2ast, 3pf, 2to, 0blk
Thomas: 16min, 3-6fg, 4-8ft, 5rebs, 0ast, 2pf, 1to, 0blk

So, they played even, therefore Gray fails to win starting job. Noah had a better boxscore than both anyway.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Oct 23, 2007 10:13 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

while I may have wasted everyone's time posting
those stats, my point is that Gray is not clearly outperforming anyone, and in my mind he'd have to drastically outperform Tyrus, Noah, and Smith to get a starting nod.

He looked fine, and I'm pleased that he's looked good enough to make the rotation and likely stay away from the D-League all year.

Instead Skiles has to take this too far and make us yell at eachother. :-)

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Oct 23, 2007 10:19 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Have you considered what you'll do
if Gray DOES get the starting job?
Is it spring training yet?

by Bluelou on Oct 23, 2007 10:19 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

what do you mean, 'do'?
like...write an angry letter to the editor? What can I do? I'm not boycotting or burning Gray jerseys or anything.

I'll instead drastically reduce my hopes for the season, and question the whole direction of the organization, and question the idea of more talent actually making Skiles a liability instead of the strength I normally view him as.

lets put it this way:

Starting Duhon, Giving Adrian Griffin a 3 year deal, Giving Ben Wallace max money, giving Nocioni a 5 year deal, drafting Noah, keeping Deng off the trading table for Bryant, starting Aaron Gray, just says that this team cares way too much about brownie points instead of talent. I'm sure you can all come up with more/better examples of what I'm talking about, but I mean all those examples not to be chosen singularly but as a general trend.

So how's that for an answer, smartass? :)

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Oct 23, 2007 10:26 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

but
did you watch the game?  just because they have equal stats doesn't mean they helped the team equally.

note: I did not watch the game so I can't say for sure which player did better.  But in the last two games it was Gray, no question.

by JSlakov on Oct 23, 2007 10:29 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Come on, you can do better than that, Matt
Hunger strike?  Picketing the UC?  Hiking cross-country to draw attention to the tragedy?  Donating all your earthly possessions to charity and withdrawing from society?

Where's the melodrama?

"They had me do a psychology test and I asked Coach Skiles if that affected his coaching. He laughed and said, `No way.'" (Joakim Noah)

by wjb1492 on Oct 23, 2007 10:47 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

they make gray jerseys?
i thought that was one of those you couldn't even persoanlize

Aoooooooooo

by milesgmsu on Oct 24, 2007 9:46 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

So, they played even
That's the point:
Gray is just a rook and TT is supposed to be a veteran and be MUCH better then Gray...
But he's not.
Is it spring training yet?

by Bluelou on Oct 23, 2007 10:25 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

first of all, it's preseason
secondly, you don't play people based on their performance relative to projection. It should be performance. Whether or not Tyrus should be better has no bearing on him compared to Gray.

thirdly, Tyrus was a major contributor to this team's run as a playoff team.

fourthly, it's preseason.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Oct 23, 2007 10:29 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

actually, it can be argued
that since Tyrus should be performing better it's reason to play him more, not less. Progress can come from experience, not just 'lessons'. And it's substantially more important long-term that Tyrus gets better, not that Gray gets better.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Oct 23, 2007 11:17 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

They''re not even
and at no point were they ever even.  Anyone who thinks they are is fooling themselves.  So they have  similar boxscore stats, that misses out the huge difference on the defensive end.  Gray would have to be substantially better than Tyrus offensively to be even.  And even offensively, Tyrus is still better right now.

by Scotter on Oct 23, 2007 10:31 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

at no point were they ever even
Whatever - Gray was better than Thomas for much of the game - he only scored 6 of their first 8 points to start with - against Dallas' starters.
And that didn't come from box stats - it came from watching the game.

And I don't think I'm fooling myself either.

And no matter HOW good TT is or isn't - he is a slacker in Skiles' eyes.
And that alone makes HIM have to be WAY better than Gray.

But Matt's right - this is only preseason and what happens now doesn't matter.

What happens when the season starts for real - the 5th starter will be whoever it is.

And I would not be surprised or unhappy if it was Gray or Thomas.
I like them both.

Okay?
Geesh...

Is it spring training yet?

by Bluelou on Oct 23, 2007 11:03 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

enough about how Skiles feels
is that how YOU feel? If Tyrus didn't do everything they wanted in the offseason that means Gray gets his job even if Gray's worse?

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Oct 23, 2007 11:14 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Maybe the biggest news
is that Joe Smith was healthy enough to play. If he's healthy, how could Skiles play Gray over him?

He couldn't play any of the 'young player, malcontent, not working' cards that he does with Thomas or Noah, so I don't see how he could give the rookie the nod over the vet.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Oct 23, 2007 10:15 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Smith is coming off an injury
Since being injured obviously is a character flaw.  If he were a real man, he would have sucked it up and participated in those all-important October practices.  Since he didn't, he has no chance of contributing this season.  The Bulls' system is just far too complicated for a youngster like Smith to pick up that quickly.

by Big D on Oct 23, 2007 10:25 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

That is what trips me out the most
I think the real story is right there!

They signed him pretty much to fill that 5th spot. And it's obvious what he can do when he's healthy.

Put him in there

by Option27 on Oct 24, 2007 9:48 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Gray is Good.
Tyrus has takin a step back.
Noah is ehhhhhh.

Gray for president.

I don't think the Bulls are as good as people think. I know it's just preseason. But I worry.

''This whole parties out of control!''-Moose

by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on Oct 23, 2007 11:20 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I'd say the fact that Gray is considered
is an indicator of this team not being as good as people think.

The confidence I had in this team has taken a drastic hit in like a week, that's for sure. And it's mostly due just to Skiles' comments, not actual gameplay.

I don't think people realize that Tyrus doesn't even have to improve to already be good. And just because Skiles is verbally rapping his wrists doesn't mean he hasn't improved.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Oct 23, 2007 11:37 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I kid.
who really knows! If you based everything on the preseason I would say Gray is your starting center. I would think Joe Smith will be the starter when its all said and done.
''This whole parties out of control!''-Moose

by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on Oct 23, 2007 11:42 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Tyrus though
he doesn't seem to really know what to do when they pass the ball to him. With Gray he knows if it's not his shot he swings it. Tyrus needs to learn to do a better job of that.
''This whole parties out of control!''-Moose

by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on Oct 23, 2007 11:45 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

But can Gray dunk?
I don't know that I have seen him dunk.
''This whole parties out of control!''-Moose

by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on Oct 23, 2007 11:49 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Thabo
How did he play tonight?

by hlac on Oct 23, 2007 11:51 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

like Thabo.
Not great, not bad.
''This whole parties out of control!''-Moose

by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on Oct 23, 2007 11:52 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't wana make judgments
based on the preseason but...... I think it might be time to have Paxson call the Lakers.

I remember how hyped the Bulls were at the start of last season and then they went out west and sucked ass.

I guess the question is can this team beat the Pistons in a playoff series? I feel like I am in limbo with this team.

Or even a team like Toronto they are better. I woudn't wana play Toronto in the playoffs.

But then the question is will you have enough around Kobe to compete. This is an odd start to a season. I have no clue who the Bulls are. Overatted is my gut feeling. Maybe it's just too soon to tell. This team reminds me of the 80's Cavs. They didn't win a title.

''This whole parties out of control!''-Moose

by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on Oct 24, 2007 12:03 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

What have we gotten,
15 minutes out of Gordon all preseason, and not much more than that out of Deng--by far and away the team's two best players.  C'mon, you all are gettin' too worked up over nothing.

by alec on Oct 24, 2007 12:52 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

holy crap
we don't even know if this is a motivational ploy and it's like "Lord of the Flies" here!  Like it or not, Skiles has the conch (figuratively speaking) and that's that.  
I'll be surprised if Grey is the starter. ...and, honestly, a bit concerned that Smith or Tyrus (with more years in the league) haven't secured the starting spot.  However, there are positives to Gray, it's not like he's Scott Pollard or something.  He passes very well, he can score in the paint and seems to have his head in the game.  Even with it being preseason, it is apparent that he has too much talent to have been a 2nd round pick.
Surprisingly, King managed to make a salient point that by virtue of his size alone, his picks are very advantageous in an offense so dependent on movement.  I think there is additional value in the fact that his size should be very beneficial for the undersized players that have previously been stuck guarding players that outweight them so egregiously.  
That being said, I would like to think that Tyrus could clearly (in Skiles' eyes) establish himself as a starter.  But even if they score the same amount of points, the do it in such drastically different ways that comparing stats is pointless.  
As for the rest of the game, I caught bits and pieces.  Unfortunately, I did not see a lot of Tyrus.  Lil Ben looked a little rusty, which is to be expected.  
Kirk, however, looked excellent in what bits I saw.  Lots of crafty play that put the Mavs on the defensive and set up teammates.  I would really like to see him take a leap this year and move into his prime.  Very happy with what I saw from him.
Missing Deng was a pretty big story for me.  It was clear that the difference b/w him and Noce is a big one.  Noce should be coming off the bench so that our second line doesn't look so hopeless.  
Noah had some solid plays sprinkled with lost ones.  I cringe when he tries to create a shot.  He would best focus on putback points, at least from what I've seen.
Khryapa is living up to his name (on several levels).  He looked terrible and I hope he doesn't have to play much.  
The Mavs absolutely got away with murder.  Are the refs allowed to bet on preseason games?   Looked like it last night.
Don't be fooled by the final score, this was a game until we went to our bench.
Oh, and Wallace guarding Dirk should NEVER happen.  That's absolutely when Smith, Deng or Tyrus need to start.  
"...Keeping 'SlowHand' alive since aught-five"

by CookDing on Oct 24, 2007 8:16 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

i kinda hope
deng is starting

by milesgmsu on Oct 24, 2007 9:50 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I saw 6 new comments in the thread,
and I immediately guessed that it was milesgmsu doing one of his patented day after response sprees.

by Scotter on Oct 24, 2007 9:56 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

ouch fair enough
90% of the reg season games i'm here live which isn't too easy when you live way outta market.

And if it weren't for a 5 hour "professioanlism summit" for the MSU Democrats I would have been here live. Unfortuantely, I am unable to figure out how to mate my radio, computer, tv, and TIVO into a behemoth bulls recording device.

by milesgmsu on Oct 24, 2007 9:58 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

It had to be either that,
or a bunch of joejoe comments all in a row.

Of course, since there were only 6 comments, the odds favored it being milesgmsu.

"They had me do a psychology test and I asked Coach Skiles if that affected his coaching. He laughed and said, `No way.'" (Joakim Noah)

by wjb1492 on Oct 24, 2007 10:00 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

ha!
so true. I like that we have such inside nuances in this place.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Oct 24, 2007 10:14 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think this
should be relabeled the crying thread instead of a game thread. Sheesh. Nocioni should buy Gray lunch for a month for being the new whipping boy in here.
Racecar spelled backwards is racecar.

by sue369 on Oct 24, 2007 10:02 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I had to
google that. I had no idea what it was but I'm positive that Du knows.
Racecar spelled backwards is racecar.

by sue369 on Oct 24, 2007 10:45 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Neither of us
must get out to bars much.  I had to google it, too.  

BTW, Skiles in the Trib this morning said Gray's earned a spot in the rotation, not necessarily starting.  

Exact quote:


Not that he's near as good as Eddy Curry, but not since Eddy have we had somebody who could catch it in [the post] and have a move they could go to and score," Skiles said. "I don't know any better than anybody else if he can do that in regular NBA games. I can only base it on what I see. And so far he has done it.

"That's enough to give him an opportunity to play. That doesn't necessarily mean he'll start. But it should be enough to get him in the rotation."

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/basketball/bulls/cs-071023bullsgamer,1,3826697.story? coll=cs-home-headlines

by KT on Oct 24, 2007 10:51 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

See if Skiles had just said that,
he could have prevented alot of pain and suffering.  I'd be more than happy to have Gray play off the bench.  He should really come in whenever Duhon comes in, which hopeful;y isn't very often.  It let's Duhon do waht he does best dump in the post and wait for a kickout 3.  Anything that keeps Duhon from standing around and dribbling will help the Bulls.  I see fewer and fewer reasons for Duhon to play any meaningful minutes on the current team.  But, Gray's welcome to play as many backup minutes as he can earn.

by Scotter on Oct 24, 2007 11:06 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Maybe Skiles just wants to screw with us
I'm still holding candle vigils until Thursdsay night.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Oct 24, 2007 11:10 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Maybe Skiles just wants to screw with us
I really doubt Skiles gives two rips about what is talked about here.
If he did, then I WOULD be worried about his credibility and coaching decisions....

Coming back here today and re-reading what was said last night, I will state again for the record:

I don't really care whether it's TT, Gray, Smith or even Paxson coming back to play....
Whoever ends in the 5th spot is who ends up with it and that's that.
And Skiles echoed my thoughts and what I was attempting to point out last night in HIS statment: That Gray is good enough to land him a spot in the rotation - starting or not is up to how things play out.

But worrying about it, getting all worked up and flaming people just because they like the way he plays is pointless and I agree with what Sue said - this thread should be changed to crying thread instead of game thread.
Because guys can't even talk about genuine, POSITIVE things that certain players do without getting jumped on because other guys don't like the player(s) mentioned...

CookDing has a great "perspective" post up above and I would tend to agree with him.

FWIW...

Is it spring training yet?

by Bluelou on Oct 24, 2007 12:26 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, sunshine and rainbows
Skiles is not above reproach, and his rotation decisions are especially questionable given his history here.

So, yeah, Skiles doesn't care what we think (I meant 'screwing with us' in vague terms, it's more like screwing with the media and with his own players) and shouldn't. Doesn't mean we can't say it anyway. Do I really need to get into the fundamental nature of being a 'helpless' fan? really?

I don't have a problem with people saying Gray is performing well. But I don't think he's earned the starting job and the idea of it really bothers me, thus people agreeing with that bothers me too. POSITIVELY bothers me.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Oct 24, 2007 12:39 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

POSITIVELY bothers me
I woulda never guessed that.....     :-)
Is it spring training yet?

by Bluelou on Oct 24, 2007 12:45 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

All worked up
Matt, you were getting worked up at the mere suggestion that not starting your best five guys was acceptable under any circumstances, no matter how many caveats were thrown in saying that Gray may not be a case in point.

I'll chalk it up to lingering emotional scars left from Duhon starting over Gordon.

Time Warner Cable: The Place to Be, if you want to see no preseason games even after paying for League Pass.

by preverbal on Oct 24, 2007 1:02 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Forget 'any' circumstances
If that's what I said, then clearly you can poke holes in that argument using real examples with real teams.

It's this circumstance. It's a dumb and unnecessary idea, and based on evidence from games that don't count.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Oct 24, 2007 1:06 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm real worked up
that Matt wasn't serious about Skiles being a loyal reader.

Considering it's the preseason, there's nothing "genuine" to say about any player performances.

by hscs on Oct 24, 2007 12:47 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

hey
I'm all for my post being "great" but it was more a lame stab at humor than trying to rail people bent out of shape about the anatomy of a team starting Gray.  As a matter of fact, I said that the potential of it troubles me too.  And, being a longtime member of Matt's blogs, consider me on the record as stating his opinion on matters is as solid as any.
Keep calling my post great, just realize that I'm also erring towards "Gray starting, me no likey".
"...Keeping 'SlowHand' alive since aught-five"

by CookDing on Oct 24, 2007 1:48 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

here's a good Aaron Gray question
When does Skiles' contract expire?

by hscs on Oct 24, 2007 10:49 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

contract was extended
to the 2008-2009 season back in 2005.

by KT on Oct 24, 2007 10:53 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

:rolls eyes:
Racecar spelled backwards is racecar.

by sue369 on Oct 24, 2007 12:56 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

HAHA!!!
That was one of the more hilarious things I've read. Thanks.
Yes, of course.

by tyger1147 on Oct 24, 2007 6:13 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

No use in beating a dead horse
Matt will want to say put this in the "Kobe thread" but I thought the story was too interesting to just post at the bottom of days old threads . . . So here you have it

Apparently the Lakers are really interested in Nocioni and are holding out till Dec 15th

by Option27 on Oct 24, 2007 11:15 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

if it's new, interesting information
and you can write it up well, then by all means start a kobe diary.

I just don't like the "here's my Kobe 'thoughts'" in a new diary every day.

And I don't see the difference between burying it here or burying it there, except to divert the discussion, which I also try to avoid.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Oct 24, 2007 11:17 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Does that mean...
...I should feel lucky my Ice Cream diary survived?

by torch on Oct 24, 2007 11:38 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

yes
Time Warner Cable: The Place to Be, if you want to see no preseason games even after paying for League Pass.

by preverbal on Oct 24, 2007 11:42 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

The King chimes in on Kobe....
LeBron on Kobe

James was asked after practice Tuesday about the possibility of Kobe Bryant being traded. It has basically been the NBA's hottest topic since June and has been rekindled of late since Los Angeles Lakers owner Jerry Buss told reporters he would be willing to trade his signature star. The Chicago Bulls, a Cavs rival in the Central Division, are a potential landing spot.

''Hopefully he's not traded to the East, but it looks like he's headed this way,'' James said. ''If he does, they say Chicago is the No. 1 place. It would be fun to play against Chicago four times a year. We're two competitors, and we love playing against each other.''

''This whole parties out of control!''-Moose

by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on Oct 24, 2007 12:42 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Wow from the face of the NBA
it looks like he's headed this way? wow maybe I read too much into that but why would he say something like that unless he had inside knowlage of something. He was budding up with Kobe on the USA team. But hey maybe he's just talking out of his ass and doesn't have a clue whats going to happen.
''This whole parties out of control!''-Moose

by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on Oct 24, 2007 12:45 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

My vote is
talking out of his ass. He hasn't a clue.
Racecar spelled backwards is racecar.

by sue369 on Oct 24, 2007 12:58 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

He's the guy
who wanted the Cavs to sign Oakley since AV is holding out.

Yep, talking out of his ass.

by KT on Oct 24, 2007 1:05 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Oakley can't come back
who will give Jordan the support needed to confidently hit on 16 against a face card?

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Oct 24, 2007 1:08 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

The way they're looking
The Bulls can definetly afford to let either Tyrus or Noah up along with Noc and a first.

So my guess is that the offer would be Gordon, Nocioni, Tyrus or Joakim, a first round pick and maybe another cap filler?

That's if the report is right

by Option27 on Oct 24, 2007 1:28 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Big "IF"
Racecar spelled backwards is racecar.

by sue369 on Oct 24, 2007 1:40 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Mastrol-ie
chicago hasn't been this excited by a preseason sensation since the fabled Ken Mastrole-Kenny Christian connection (both of whom were unceremoniously cut before the regular season started).

by GWKD on Oct 24, 2007 11:46 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I was pumped up for Corry Blount!
''This whole parties out of control!''-Moose

by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on Oct 24, 2007 12:47 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

or is it Courie?
''This whole parties out of control!''-Moose

by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on Oct 24, 2007 12:47 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Corie

by ScottieCartwright on Oct 24, 2007 1:41 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Gray vs. Thomas?
One thing I'm getting from these last few threads is that somehow Gray and Thomas are competing against each other.  First of all, they play different positions, with Gray being a Center and Thomas being PF and sometimes even SF.  Aside from position, they play completely different games.  And guess what?  They're on the same team.  Sure only one of them can start and some say that it should be Thomas' job to lose even though he's younger, less polished and duplicates Ben Wallace, but thats beside the point.  If they can both contribute its great, no matter who starts.

I've heard people saying that the fact that Aaron Gray might start is a sign that this team is worse than they thought.  How about it might be better than they thought because they've got something we didn't think they'd have, a second rounder who might actually contribute (like everyone's favorite Duhon).  Does Gray starting or being a position player make the team bad?  Not if he's effective.  Just because he wasn't highly touted out of college doesn't mean he can't play and he's replacing the likes of Sweetney and Malik Allen.  In my opinion this whole Gray thing is a positive, whether he winds up starting or not, and not a sign of the apocalypse.  

by JSlakov on Oct 24, 2007 1:28 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

yes, Gray being good is a good thing
(thought I'd say that up front since some have trouble reading)

I consider Thomas and Gray (and Noah, Smith, Noc) to all be a part of the frontcourt rotation. Which is a zero-sum game in terms of minutes, so I think it's relevant to compare them.

(In fact, some arguments are made here in support of Gray over Thomas not because he's better but because Thomas had a less-than-ideal offseason. That's even worse than a performance-based competition.)

The reason I think starting Gray is an indictment on the team as a whole is not because Gray turned out to be competent (again, if confirmed -ITS PRESEASON- is a good thing), but because it's showing that Skiles is up to his same old bullshit tricks of starting lesser players to motivate others (or whatever his reasons) and punting the idea of starting out well to instead 'learn things' in the first few months.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Oct 24, 2007 1:37 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Starting minutes are entitlement minutes.
They're at least 12 guaranteed minutes.  That's 12 minutes a bench player having a great game can't play.  And if Skiles is willing to give entitlement minutes to an inferior player both in terms of current productivity and potential then it's a negative sign for the rest of the rotations and the season as a whole as well.  Starting Gray is an idea that comes from the devil on Skiles' shoulder.  The same one that tells Skiles to always play Duhon in lineups with at least two other player's that can't score.  Starting Gray like starting Duhon does in fact make the Bulls' worse.  When your best players play less and in less effective combinations, your team does indeed end up worse.

This has been far more about hating on Skiles and anyone else that fails to understand Thomas that Thomas is significantly more productivie than Gray than it is about hating on Gray.  Thomas and Gray shouldn't be in competition with each other, but this time it was Skiles and not the media that put them in competition with each other.  And if Skiles does start Gray, I'll probably end up hating Gray the way I do Duhon.  I much rather be able to enjoy his success than be pissed that he's on the floor.  But, sometimes children end up suffering for the sins of their parents.

by Scotter on Oct 24, 2007 1:55 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Putting it here
because this isn't a preseason thread as much as it's a debate versus Gray starting or somebody else (cough, Tyrus, cough) starting.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/nba/specials/preview/2007/enemy.lines/bulls.html

"The one guy who could eventually solve their problems up front is second-year forward Tyrus Thomas, who isn't as tough as Skiles would like. His attitude has surprised me. They invested a lot in him and he could be a Darko [Milicic] for them. He's not a brain surgeon and he picks and chooses his times to appear that he's playing hard, and he made quite a few mistakes last year that changed games for them in a bad way. Then he also had those games where he was playing good, and I think ultimately he's going to be a really good player. He's been a guard for the majority of his life and he has some good skills, and he has continued to grow all the time. LSU screwed him up by telling him to stand under the basket and block shots and they didn't teach him a whole lot. He has the tools to be a dominant player. If he learns to play hard, he'll be a difference-maker. Usually it's in the third year that a guy like him decides whether he's going to make $10 million a year or $6 million a year on his next contract ...

Thomas is at least a full season away from turning the corner, and even then I don't know if he wants to go in the post and be doubled, rather than be out on the floor where he can show all the things he can do."

Don't shoot the messenger

"...Keeping 'SlowHand' alive since aught-five"

by CookDing on Oct 24, 2007 3:02 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

bonus points for Gray
he'll never be burdened with thinking about whether he could be making $6m or $10m ;-)

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Oct 24, 2007 3:06 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

you know it's a scout
because he/she says "gut feeling".

by hscs on Oct 24, 2007 3:07 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

cnnsi has done this scout thing
for years, and sportingnews does the same thing.  The one thing that becomes obvious is that the scouts that are willing to speak to these publications are certainly not the guys, I want scouting for my team.  

by Scotter on Oct 24, 2007 3:14 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

i like how it starts off
"I could see them finishing anywhere from seventh in the conference to third"

third??  Obviously this is a Cavs, Pistons, or Celtics scout...lol

by ScottieCartwright on Oct 24, 2007 3:21 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

FYI: thread is up for the SI.com scout article
http://www.blogabull.com/story/2007/10/24/16461/072

(See? If you write something coherent and formatted I'm significantly less picky over the content)

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Oct 24, 2007 3:55 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

It's unsurprising...
...that he said Thomas has such bad plays that he actually affected the game in a bad way (that's the definition of a bad play--did they lose any games for it?) but that Thomas was merely "good" at times (not great, and he certainly didn't affect the game positively.

Have the hi-light reels actually turned some of us against how good he actually was and can be? "Sure, he jumps a lot, but that's not that special, and he looks REALLY stupid out there at times. Everyone in the NBA can jump. Therefore, he's not really THAT good."

Yes, of course.

by tyger1147 on Oct 24, 2007 6:37 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

sure but
I just don't see why Thomas should get these entitlement minutes.  He's a second year player, he's 20 years old and he's very raw.  In no way do I believe that Gray is a great player or even going to be a great player, but I think a lot of people are overrating Tyrus at this stage in his career and I think theres a good chance that Gray could be more effective in a starting role than Thomas.  I've seen him play as much as the next guy and I know what his game is and I don't think he's going to spring into being an offensive threat in the immediate future.  Yes, he's a very good defensive player already, but like Skiles said, its a balance issue.  You don't want two non scorers on the front line.  Can Gray score in the NBA regular season?  Lets find out.  I think he has the requisite skills and many people wanted us to draft Hawes based on very similar skills and I bet if we had, some people would be clamoring for him to start.

As far as minutes spread, perhaps this is a fundamental disagreement but I don't think the Bulls are going to win the championship this year.  With Gray, Thomas or Kobe starting.  We know Ben Wallace is wearing down and eventually his minutes will have to be replaced.  Gray is the only center on our roster and since Wallace has been our de facto center for the last two years, Gray is a good candidate to replace those minutes.  I'm looking at the big picture.  I don't really care about who starts as much as good lineups and while I know a lot of you think that Wallace and Thomas are a good fit, I disagree.  If Gray doesn't work out, thats why we got Joe Smith.

by JSlakov on Oct 24, 2007 3:09 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

That's the problem your eyes lie to you
Tyus is raw, is 20, and is in his 2nd year.  Those are all facts.  Here are more facts.  Despite all of that, Thomas was a solidly productive player last year according to any of the measurement systems of player performance, and the 2nd half of his season was better than solid.  The Bulls also played better when he was on the floor, and played their best when Thomas played with the other four starters.  What is there to disagree with?  The point differential was 6.5 whenever Wallace and Thomas played together.  The point differential was also over 10 whenever Skiles refrained from playing Duhon with them.  If Wallace and Thomas are a bad fit, shouldn't it show up somewhere in the team's play?

Tyrus also isn't a nonscorer because whenever he's in the lineup he's going to get to the FT line, an area that's been a bit of problem for the Bulls.     He also runs the floor, which is pretty important when Hinrich, Gordon, and Deng are pushing the ball.  Actually having a froncourt player that can actually get across half court before the shot goes up might just be a little helpful.  People's eyes lie to them all the time, it's imossible to take in everything that happens on the court.  

by Scotter on Oct 24, 2007 3:38 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

your last sentence
kinda just killed your whole argument though...you can't rip someone else and say that their eyes lied to them and then act like YOU see any and everything that goes on.

There's WAY too much exaggeration that goes on here whenever someone is for or against anything.

I think some of your Tyrus assessment is a little over the top...at the same time, I don't think he's bad enough to get passed over by Gray, as far as minutes go.

Right now, Tyrus isn't the end all answer to the Bulls front-court problems.  But he IS more of an answer than anyone else they have.

by ScottieCartwright on Oct 24, 2007 4:02 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

is it bad form to say you missed the point?
People can't possibly quantify everything that goes on a basketball court. Lying eyes are a fact, not an insult. That's why we go back and look at what lineups were the most successful.

by hscs on Oct 24, 2007 4:09 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

no it's not bad form
maybe I did...

but I wasn't disagreeing with his "lying eyes" comments...I completely agree with that.

The part I was disagreeing with was it SOUNDED (I guess I'm wrong) like he was ripping the other poster for having lying eyes but saying that he, himself did not have lying eyes.

by ScottieCartwright on Oct 25, 2007 8:33 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm not sure how you missed the point
that personal observation has to be balanced with objective evaluations.  There's nothing in my comment that refers to a personal observation based on watching the Bulls play.  Everything was a statistical fact.  

Both personal observation and stats are needed.  It's impossible to use basketball stats without also watching the game.  They require a level of interpretation that comes only from personal observation.  But, personal observation is just as likely to be misleading as stats.  The human brain has to fixate and focus on specfic things, it's impossible to take in everything when watching a game.

   

by Scotter on Oct 24, 2007 4:26 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

"statistical fact"
is an oxymoron.  Just because the team scored more points with Thomas and Big Ben on the floor doesn't mean they're a good match.  There's a million things that add into this.  Who was playing on the other team at the time?  Who else was playing on our team?  Maybe Gordon, Hinrich and Deng were hitting their jumpers.  Maybe they played a lot together against lame teams.  I mean, I'm not pretending to be a basketball genius but in my opinion Wallace and Thomas aren't going to compliment each other well on the court against top competition at pivotal times. at least not at this point Wallace's and Thomas' careers.

by JSlakov on Oct 24, 2007 6:40 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

It's not an oxymoron.
Nor is it redundant, which is the word you probably wanted to use.

Saying, "I like cheese," is stating a fact. It's not a statistic. You can look it up if you want.

All stats are facts (assuming they aren't fictional). Not all facts are stats. I remember going over this in sixth grade and something to do with squares and rectangles or something.

Yes, of course.

by tyger1147 on Oct 24, 2007 6:49 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

no
I did not mean redundant.  I meant oxymoron although I wasn't being 100% serious, just like the joke "military intelligence is an oxymoron."  I'm saying that more often than not statistics don't tell the true story or the facts.

Lies, damned lies and statistics, ever heard that one?

by JSlakov on Oct 24, 2007 7:02 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

It certainly was redundant, and poor writing in my
haste to post.  Isn't it at least worth asking why that lineup was effective?  The lineup of Hinrich, Gordon, Deng, Thomas, and Wallace was the Bulls 4th most used lineup. The only lineups that recieved more playing were the three starting lineups that Skiles used throughout the season.  Which is why the starting lineup is so important, it's the only time the same five players play together consistently because of Skiles' Russian roulette rotation strategy.  

It isn't that hard to think of reasons why those five players playing together led to such good results.  Playing the two best interior defenders together agains the opposing team's best players might just be a good idea.  Pairing Wallace, a player that almost never attacks offensively, with a player that actually attacks and forces the defense to defend the basket might just work.  Pairing Wallace a decent interior passer with a guy who can actually finish at the rim might just be a good idea.  Gee, I wonder if that's partly why Wallace averaged 3.7 assists/40 min during the 400+ minutes with Tyrus on the floor.  And that's just how Tyrus might just play well with Wallace.    But then again what's the importance of out scoring the other team anyway.  It's just a stupid statistic.  

by Scotter on Oct 24, 2007 8:10 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

And to also add to what you said before...
...Hinrich, Gordon and Deng ALL love to push the ball. Deng likes to attack, but all three are probably just as good as pulling up on a stop for a 15-20 ft jump shot (off their dribble or a pass) because they aren't exceptional finishers (although good) and because they're very good jump shooters.

Having a fast man who wants to attack the basket hard in those situations, and who can make it with them down the floor, allows them yet another far above average option on the fast break/2ndary break offense.

Thomas' desire to head towards the rim and his excellent leaping ability also lend towards him being a very good offensive rebounder on the missed jump shots. Gray can't provide either of those at near the level Thomas can.

Hinrich has been a 2ndary break-type of guy for 8 years now. And Gordon and Deng have been aggressive for at least three. While they don't try to do it all the time (maybe they would more if Thomas was out there for 20+ minutes), it'd sure be nice to have Thomas out there instead of Gray for the 3-4 times a half it's probably available (number pulled out of my ass). Since the starters are used to this and can do it well (especially the main ball-handler), I feel I'd much rather start the game off trying to get easy buckets like this, and if that's not working, "slow it down and dump it in." Not the other way around.

Yes, of course.

by tyger1147 on Oct 24, 2007 11:33 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Couldn't agree more.
As long as you realize this is not the Bulls year
(to get a CHIP) you need to think about long-term developement over immediate success. The priority is getting Tyrus, Noah and Gray up to Championship caliber. How Skiles does that will obviously be based individually on each of their characters. Limiting Smith's minutes should be the main goal, so that we can get the young guys minutes. Let's not worry so much over who is starting etc.

by philosoball on Oct 24, 2007 3:44 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Also wouldn't mind limiting Big Ben burn for that
matter during the Reg. season. Why waste his old legs unless neccesary. OF course, last year he didn't seem like a guy who would happily take fewer minutes to save himself for the playoffs.

by philosoball on Oct 24, 2007 3:51 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

bwahaha
Dan Bernstein just now on the Score: "Last night, Aaron Gray was a suckfest. If they start him he'll get 3 fouls before the national anthem's over"

(I don't usually fully buy into his Bulls opinions, as he's more negative overall than I am, but that was funny)

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Oct 24, 2007 2:19 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Yeah that was over the top, I heard that also.
I agree with the fouling though. He just doesn't jump.
''This whole parties out of control!''-Moose

by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on Oct 24, 2007 3:19 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

as far as I know
not jumping is a good way to not get fouls.

to not get scored on on the other hand...

by JSlakov on Oct 24, 2007 3:20 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Those to sentenced where not really
related.
''This whole parties out of control!''-Moose

by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on Oct 24, 2007 3:22 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

He also said this is the same Bulls team from last
season. Hard workers and a nice team but thats all.
''This whole parties out of control!''-Moose

by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on Oct 24, 2007 3:21 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Surprisingly--Stacy has said it
perhaps best:  Gray has some skills, and in two or three years he could become a player.  That's not going way overboard.  I think a lot of this stuff has come up because, with BenG and Luol out, the line-up has seemed much more up for grabs than it actually is.  I mean, it's obvious Gray has some skills, but so also does Thomas Gardner.  I don't know if we'd have known that about either of them if everyone had been healthy.  

by alec on Oct 24, 2007 3:23 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Guess who are
the team captains this season? You'll have to read to find out. :P

http://blogs.chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/fullcourtpress/

Racecar spelled backwards is racecar.

by sue369 on Oct 24, 2007 6:50 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Eyes Burn
Well, I just read through the whole comment section- with burning eyes. This gray thing has been completely dissected, and reading it was actually worthwhile.

Skiles is just messing with us. Gray will not start. Smith or TT.

Has a 2nd rounder ever started the first game of his rookie season? I know, that Q/A means nothing, but come on. come on.

by chicago-homesick-blues on Oct 24, 2007 10:19 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Eyes Burn
Could it be that Wallace will be included in the trade for Kobe... and Chris Mihm and that the Bulls need to know if Gray can back up Mihm?

by hlac on Oct 24, 2007 11:11 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

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