If Aaron Gray is starting this team is in big goddamned trouble
Thanks a lot Skiles, all the web aggregators of the world will now have a 'Aaron Gray to start for Bulls?' headline that will make the team look like a joke. (I suppose I'm not helping)
We have to decide, balancing both units, do we want a couple of defensive players in the starting lineup or do we want more offense. Aaron has shown--and I think he will in the regular season--that he can score. Do we want to use that to start a game? It's something we have to think about."
No, you don't have to think about it. Not really.
Then again I missed the last preseason game so maybe Aaron Gray was George Mikan out there. And I mean the prime Mikan, I had previously thought he more resembled the current (dead) version. I guess I'll have to pay more attention Tuesday night. But that Indiana game had no Deng or Gordon, so I suppose that may be a case where you'd want more offense in the starting lineup. But even then there's Nocioni, 'cause this team was supposedly deep in the frontcourt with options like that.
I'm glad KC Johnson included this about the Pacers game:
"The mobility issue, in my mind, is much less a factor even than it was in the summer," Skiles said. "He's definitely picked up how we want him to move and where we want him to move to. And because his hands are so good and he's got a soft touch and his size, it makes up for those issues. It's just an experience thing. During the season, you're going to see the quick guards come off pick-and-rolls and attack him. The question is can he move his feet and stay in the game."
I'm sure the regular season games will go much slower for him.
I can't take this slow-start-while-Skiles-figures-out-what-he-has nonsense again. Just wait until Gordon has a few turnovers this week and there will be rumblings that Chris Duhon 'may get a look' in the starting lineup.
Remember when we were worried about finding minutes in a crowded and talented frontcourt for Noah, Thomas, Nocioni, and Smith? A few good stints with non-regular lineups and against non-regular opposition and it changes all that?
Eh, I'm guessing this is all Skiles mind-games to get Noah and Thomas sweating. And Joe Smith to practice more. And to drive me crazy.
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I recorded that last preseason game and watched
He backed up everything they said about him. He even came help side and blocked the crap out of some dude trying to dunk on him for the second game. His outside looked like silk. He made all his free throws. He stays calm when the shot clock is in red and he has alot of confidence in his offensive game. His mistakes are good mistakes if you know what I mean. Like even when something bad happens you know it was close to being a good play and not at all a dumb play. What I like about him is he's smart. He knows where to be and when he should be shooting. I made a comment after the game that he looks like a starter. (Oh of course nobody read that)
He has his slow big man moments but I think the Bulls might have got a steal. Of course we need to see him against starters.
Dead Mikan? What are you talking about. This guy has some game. Atleast so far he has looked like their best big. He can do alot. He is big so he does lumber a bit but he's huge. You must not have been watching many games these past few weeks.
Once again what I see Skiles sees. Like with Deng playing the 2. Now Gray maybe a starter. Hmmmmmmm
Really though it might be worth a look to start Gray because he can score inside.
Last thing was it seemed like Wallace really has takin a liking to Gray they seemed to feed off each other. He can take pressure off of Wallace. Basically.
by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on Oct 23, 2007 12:15 AM CDT 0 recs
Aaron Gray = The Answer?!
by AngryAsianAce on
Oct 23, 2007 2:07 AM CDT
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not a bad idea
He still might only get 20 minutes a game, starting the first and third quarters, and then bring in Noah and Thomas for energy and athleticism off the bench. I assume he'd see no time in the crunch. Certainly something to try out and see what happens. If it fails, we've dealt with slow starts before and always recovered.
by JSlakov on Oct 23, 2007 12:25 AM CDT 0 recs
I agree also
I think what sets Gray back is he doesn't dunk when he's close to the basket. He just kinda lays the ball in the basket. It's really odd. He just does his job there isn't much flash. Maybe the scouts thought he would get his ass kicked in the pros. Maybe he will still but I like what I see so far.
by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on
Oct 23, 2007 12:45 AM CDT
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I don't think it's lack of flash
But I will give Gray credit in that when he does go for that close layup he does it right away before his defender realizes it. (Preseason defender, anyway.)
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
Oct 23, 2007 9:16 AM CDT
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Oh and your last few sentences
At one point in the game( I rewinded it 4 times) Noah was about to check in and he asked a question to the coaching staff and Skiles sent him back to the bench. At which point he shugged his shoulders in discust over Skiles demotion. Once he had a seat on the bench the assistant coach Boylan starter going over things with him on the white board.
Then I kept rewinding the part where Noah kinda like flug his hands and had his mouth guard hanging out. Skiles face was so red but he just kept squinting at the free throw line.
Thomas didn't work hard this summer and you can tell. He's always winded and gets lazy on passes and his stupid spin move. He's still a kid. He needs to grow up.
Of course this is just preseason so it could be a fluke. But I see what I see.
by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on Oct 23, 2007 12:35 AM CDT 0 recs
I havent seen any preseason games yet....
by boyonthedock on Oct 23, 2007 12:42 AM CDT 0 recs
Yeah he can!
by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on
Oct 23, 2007 12:52 AM CDT
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He does
by sue369 on
Oct 23, 2007 9:08 AM CDT
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the fact that this is even possible
Says that they made a high-value pick in the mid-2nd round by getting Gray. so, that's good.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
Oct 23, 2007 10:45 AM CDT
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Marquette
by givepaxahug on
Oct 23, 2007 3:05 PM CDT
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Marquette
by boyonthedock on
Oct 23, 2007 4:04 PM CDT
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THat Game
by givepaxahug on
Oct 23, 2007 4:31 PM CDT
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Found it!
Im sure though he'll play bad in Dallas and JS will end up starting.I guess we'll see.
by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on Oct 23, 2007 1:02 AM CDT 0 recs
Aaron Gray had great college stats.
http://www.draftexpress.com/viewarticle.php?a=2136
The knock against him is that he looks slow and unathletic, and people question how his game will translate to the pros. But he might do better as a starter, running set plays in a half-court offense, than as a bench player asked to bring energy to the court. He could also be a starter and not get starter minutes.
But if he does start, I'm sure the other team will go at him and see if he gets some quick rookie fouls called on him. And whoever he is covering should run the court and see if he is slow to catch up. The problem is that the other big men, except for Wallace, seem to be behind in conditioning and/or learning the plays. Oh well, if nothing else the Bulls have plenty of fouls to give.
by Tim S. on Oct 23, 2007 5:59 AM CDT 0 recs
On the other hand, Hollinger says:
I guess the real disappointment here is Thomas, who has played a whole year with the Bulls, and is supposed to turn into a star. Why wouldn't he be ready to start ahead of a rookie second-round pick? It's also too bad Joe Smith hasn't been healthy.
by Tim S. on
Oct 23, 2007 6:23 AM CDT
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I never liked that '7-footer' caveat
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
Oct 23, 2007 10:48 AM CDT
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Hmmm
I haven't seen a preseason game (thank you Time Warner Cable), but I have liked everything I've read about Gray since the pick. I certainly was not high on him coming out of college, but I would be thrilled to be proven wrong.
I can imagine how it could work (if -- and granted its a huge if -- he can score in the post like a poor man's Eddy, throw him out there for the first 6-10 min of each half to settle the game down), but I just can't believe its even been thrown out there as a possibility.
At the end of the day, its a real positive in that the Bulls may have a big 7 footer who can actually help the team, but its also very disconcerting that TT hasn't locked that spot down, particularly with Jos Smith being hurt.
by preverbal on
Oct 23, 2007 10:58 AM CDT
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It's a conspiracy Matt
Seriously, I don't think Pax wants a slow start either, so he may have a few things to say to Skiles about it. During last season Pax said he was "on the ledge" after the month of November but someone talked him out of making some hasty moves.
by KT on Oct 23, 2007 6:34 AM CDT 0 recs
On the bright side . . .
by Big D on Oct 23, 2007 7:37 AM CDT 0 recs
heh, it wouldn't be Bulls basketball
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
Oct 23, 2007 10:46 AM CDT
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I did hear Lu
They did an interview with Aaron on there last night and he really has the desire to play well and help this team.
by sue369 on Oct 23, 2007 9:10 AM CDT 0 recs
Congrats, Sue
by alec on
Oct 23, 2007 9:27 AM CDT
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Thanks
by sue369 on
Oct 23, 2007 9:30 AM CDT
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I think
These last couple of games of the preseason is when most of the teams start to give their regulars more minutes and are using more of a set rotation...this will show us what Gray can do against some polished starters.
If he stinks up the place tonight, then at least you still have one more preseason game to try Tyrus, Joe, or Noah in the starting lineup.
I'm hoping for the Milwaukee game, that our regular starting five can be on the floor at least ONE time together
by ScottieCartwright on Oct 23, 2007 9:18 AM CDT 0 recs
PF Starter Does Not Matter
Gordon, Deng, Hinrich, and Wallace-35 minutes each=140 minutes
Nocioni 25 minutes
Thalbo 15 minutes
Duhon 10 minutes
That leaves 50 minutes for everone else. Hopefully, TT will step forward and grab 20 to 25 minutes with outstanding play. At this point, I have no idea how Skiles will divide up these 50 minutes of playing time.
by Goshdengit on Oct 23, 2007 9:56 AM CDT 0 recs
Your calcs
Not unless someone is injured or the 2-3 players in front of him gets in serious foul trouble
by ScottieCartwright on
Oct 23, 2007 10:24 AM CDT
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I don't want this to be open tryouts
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
Oct 23, 2007 10:27 AM CDT
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Precisely because
by alec on
Oct 23, 2007 10:42 AM CDT
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right, so play them
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
Oct 23, 2007 10:44 AM CDT
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oh, and judging by Duhon's career
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
Oct 23, 2007 10:44 AM CDT
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only 20 games
keep in mind i'm the conductor of the "duh is great as a backup pg and only pg for no more than 20 mins especially as showcasing in a trade" train
choo choo
by milesgmsu on
Oct 24, 2007 10:07 AM CDT
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The three players
by alec on
Oct 23, 2007 10:45 AM CDT
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they're all proven
And Gray isn't even playing that well! If he was dramatically outperforming the other guys (and had a better pedigree), maybe. I'm just not seeing this drastic change when Gray's out there like you guys are.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
Oct 23, 2007 10:54 AM CDT
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I have
by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on
Oct 23, 2007 11:03 AM CDT
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Although he could suck
by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on
Oct 23, 2007 11:07 AM CDT
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The starting PF from last year is gone
Also, Nocioni is accepted to be a better option coming off the bench, Smith has barely played and is probably still less than 100%, and Thomas has shown little improvement from when he was a backup last year. There's nothing cut and dry about this decision.
by rexisourqb on
Oct 23, 2007 11:18 AM CDT
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it's also the antithesis of a good team
Especially since the sample size is small, meaningless, and you have to strain to consider Gray as slightly outperforming his peers, let alone drastically.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
Oct 23, 2007 11:23 AM CDT
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The flaw in your reasoning is that
There's many other possibilities that come from your first statement. First, there's the possibility is that the Bulls aren't a championship team yet. That is supported by the fact that the supposed starting Power Forwards are either too injured or too raw to make the coach rule out the possibility of starting a surprise 2nd round rookie.
Another possibility is that there's more than one way to create a championship team. If you can accept that the Bulls have a chance to win it all despite lack of a "superstar" or a "low post presence", there's no reason to rule out a team winning the championship with a rookie starting and playing 15-20 minutes a night.
When it was Thomas vs Smith vs Noah, wasn't it still an open competition? I didn't see this level of protest from you when they were considering Noah for a starting spot. Your draft position is not equal to your skill level.
by rexisourqb on
Oct 23, 2007 11:50 AM CDT
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there is something cut and dry
by hscs on
Oct 23, 2007 11:23 AM CDT
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However I wouldn't start him
by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on Oct 23, 2007 10:45 AM CDT 0 recs
So is Luol playing on Holloween?
by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on Oct 23, 2007 10:46 AM CDT 0 recs
Easy question
Who amongst you think that:
- The plan will be to feed Aaron Gray
- It'll work out well
- It'll work out well enough to counteract his defensive problems.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Oct 23, 2007 10:50 AM CDT 0 recs
Gray can score and pass and he's big.
by Tim S. on
Oct 23, 2007 12:07 PM CDT
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I'm pretty much with Matt on this one
by wjb1492 on Oct 23, 2007 10:50 AM CDT 0 recs
formula
production=playing time.
I'm not as upset about the idea of tinkering in the first few weeks as long is it's not terribly dramatic. Ten preseason games can't be too helpful for getting a solid lineup.
I do agree with the idea that starting a rookie at Center is not very inspiring. A possible bright points of such a move:
Ben getting some minutes at PF which should help him keep from wearing down.
by CookDing on Oct 23, 2007 10:55 AM CDT 0 recs
Matt, every time
by alec on Oct 23, 2007 10:57 AM CDT 0 recs
I do have it out for Gray
Because this team should be WAY beyond the point of giving guys tryouts and letting rookie 2nd-rounders work their way up in the rotation on a couple weeks.
It's insane, this team is supposed to win the Eastern Conference, and a lot of that has to do with the supposed continuity they've forged. And the collection of talent. Gray serves neither.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
Oct 23, 2007 11:19 AM CDT
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although I do appreciate the idea
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
Oct 23, 2007 11:20 AM CDT
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I thought about that
by alec on
Oct 23, 2007 11:46 AM CDT
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For a long time now,
Personally, I think Tyrus has played well enough to start. He's not piling up immediate fouls. He's gotten obviously bigger and stronger. He's made some decent passes, hit a few mid-range jumpers...and he's still a nasty defender around the basket.
It's been argued here that Joe Smith's offense might be more important coming off the bench than starting, and I agree with that.
Noah just doesn't look like he has it together yet. Noce is Noce. You can play him at three different positions and he'll give you decent minutes at all three.
That leaves Gray. I think without question Gray has been the surprise of the camp, almost a revelation. The biggest thing about Gray is that he gives the team something they can't get from anyone else on the roster--potential scoring in the low post.
What has been the biggest criticism of the Bulls for the past two years? By far and away, it has been that they have lacked a post scoring threat. That's what Gray potentially gives them. It's no surprise Skiles is trying to figure out how best to get him in the game.
by alec on
Oct 23, 2007 11:45 AM CDT
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...says the boy who calls himself
Sometimes this stuff just writes itself.
by ChrisRobin on
Oct 23, 2007 2:07 PM CDT
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especially if you can't grasp sarcasm
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
Oct 23, 2007 2:15 PM CDT
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oh, yes
by preverbal on
Oct 23, 2007 3:19 PM CDT
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Please feel free
by ChrisRobin on
Oct 23, 2007 6:31 PM CDT
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Hey, it's a weak conference.
But remember that Ben Wallace was undrafted. So was Brad Miller. And most people think it was a strong draft. Maybe the Bulls got themselves a low-post scorer!
Yes, I'm disappointed that Skiles seems underwhelmed with Thomas, but from what I can tell he hasn't given up on him at all. According to this article (http://www.dailyherald.com/story/?id=61777) the Bulls are "very happy with Thomas' progress." Maybe their just even happier with Gray (good news!), or maybe we are reading way too much into this.
by Tim S. on
Oct 23, 2007 12:01 PM CDT
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I don't know if they think he can be their
by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on Oct 23, 2007 10:58 AM CDT 0 recs
The post headline says it all
They groomed Tyrus in the later part of last season to be ready for this kind of problem if they faced it. They drafted Noah cause he was supposedly "NBA Ready". They signed Joe Smith pretty much FOR that spot.
Let's not get too hyped on what the rookie showed all of us in preseason. I'm as high on this guy as most of us but the fact remains, the Bulls need someone there that's shown they could do the job already.
by Option27 on Oct 23, 2007 11:15 AM CDT 0 recs
I just heard on the radio Skiles might
by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on Oct 23, 2007 11:20 AM CDT 0 recs
I watched every minute of the preseason
His lack of speed didn't hurt him much. He was certainly in his spot on offensive sets, was able to make baskets against all competition, usually had good rebounding position, and was there to challenge the shot on defense. He didn't get the flashy blocks, but he definitely changed shots. Gray's one negative was being foul prone. That's not too bad since he was never going to play 40 minutes a game anyway.
Gray is far more ready to start than Noah, I don't care where they were picked. Not only does he know the plays a lot better, he can contribute consistently in more ways. Noah might have a back to the basket move, but we'll never see it because he will get stripped every single time he starts backing someone down. His awareness and decision making is really lacking. If it was up to me, i'd send him to big man school for the first half of the season and have him learn post moves, how to hold the ball so it's protected, how to distinguish a high % shot from a low one. It's true that Noah has good ball handling and passing skills, but if he dribbles in traffic and can't see the open man, those skills mean nothing.
Tyrus is disappointing. He's still depending too much on his athleticism to make up for not being in the right spot. He's still has really poor shot selection. He did actually hit a few midrange jumpers, which I didn't see at all last year. He might be a better option than Gray in the starting lineup, but it's far from clear.
by rexisourqb on Oct 23, 2007 11:27 AM CDT 0 recs
Noah did have
I can't believe all this angst over something that may not happen and if it does happen no amount of whining will change it.
by sue369 on
Oct 23, 2007 11:46 AM CDT
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exactly
Everyone should calm down and give it a chance.
I'm not as down on this idea as I thought I would be.
People keep saying that he shouldn't start at the expense of Tyrus, Noah, and Smith...well who's to say that it IS at the expense of them? Maybe he beat them fair and square to deserve this lil mini try-out.
Give the kid a chance...if he stinks, then fine, sit him down...but he may surprise some people.
by ScottieCartwright on
Oct 23, 2007 12:10 PM CDT
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I don't consider a handful of preseason games
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
Oct 23, 2007 12:52 PM CDT
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i'm not only
by ScottieCartwright on
Oct 23, 2007 2:14 PM CDT
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but according to Skiles
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
Oct 23, 2007 2:15 PM CDT
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true
like you said...this could just be one big head game by Skiles
by ScottieCartwright on
Oct 23, 2007 2:25 PM CDT
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