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If Aaron Gray is starting this team is in big goddamned trouble

Thanks a lot Skiles, all the web aggregators of the world will now have a 'Aaron Gray to start for Bulls?' headline that will make the team look like a joke. (I suppose I'm not helping)

"We liked what happened at the beginning of the game the other night, We thought Ben Wallace and Aaron played well together. Ben is a good passer. And he found Aaron once the other night. Ben also knows our offense well.

We have to decide, balancing both units, do we want a couple of defensive players in the starting lineup or do we want more offense. Aaron has shown--and I think he will in the regular season--that he can score. Do we want to use that to start a game? It's something we have to think about."

No, you don't have to think about it. Not really.

 Then again I missed the last preseason game so maybe Aaron Gray was George Mikan out there. And I mean the prime Mikan, I had previously thought he more resembled the current (dead) version.  I guess I'll have to pay more attention Tuesday night. But that Indiana game had no Deng or Gordon, so I suppose that may be a case where you'd want more offense in the starting lineup. But even then there's Nocioni, 'cause this team was supposedly deep in the frontcourt with options like that.

I'm glad KC Johnson included this about the Pacers game:

Despite fouling out against the Pacers, most infractions coming from poor or slow defensive rotations

"The mobility issue, in my mind, is much less a factor even than it was in the summer," Skiles said. "He's definitely picked up how we want him to move and where we want him to move to. And because his hands are so good and he's got a soft touch and his size, it makes up for those issues. It's just an experience thing. During the season, you're going to see the quick guards come off pick-and-rolls and attack him. The question is can he move his feet and stay in the game."

I'm sure the regular season games will go much slower for him.

I can't take this slow-start-while-Skiles-figures-out-what-he-has nonsense again. Just wait until Gordon has a few turnovers this week and there will be rumblings that Chris Duhon 'may get a look' in the starting lineup.

Remember when we were worried about finding minutes in a crowded and talented frontcourt for Noah, Thomas, Nocioni, and Smith? A few good stints with non-regular lineups and against non-regular opposition and it changes all that?

Eh, I'm guessing this is all Skiles mind-games to get Noah and Thomas sweating. And Joe Smith to practice more. And to drive me crazy.

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I recorded that last preseason game and watched
it after work. Gray played really well. Red was hyping him all night.

He backed up everything they said about him. He even came help side and blocked the crap out of some dude trying to dunk on him for the second game. His outside looked like silk. He made all his free throws. He stays calm when the shot clock is in red and he has alot of confidence in his offensive game. His mistakes are good mistakes if you know what I mean. Like even when something bad happens you know it was close to being a good play and not at all a dumb play. What I like about him is he's smart. He knows where to be and when he should be shooting. I made a comment after the game that he looks like a starter. (Oh of course nobody read that)

He has his slow big man moments but I think the Bulls might have got a steal. Of course we need to see him against starters.

Dead Mikan? What are you talking about. This guy has some game. Atleast so far he has looked like their best big. He can do alot. He is big so he does lumber a bit but he's huge. You must not have been watching many games these past few weeks.

Once again what I see Skiles sees. Like with Deng playing the 2. Now Gray maybe a starter. Hmmmmmmm

Really though it might be worth a look to start Gray because he can score inside.

Last thing was it seemed like Wallace really has takin a liking to Gray they seemed to feed off each other. He can take pressure off of Wallace. Basically.

''This whole parties out of control!''-Moose

by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on Oct 23, 2007 12:15 AM CDT   0 recs

Aaron Gray = The Answer?!
Remains to be seen... Lets see his play when the regular season starts. Seen plenty of players do great in pre-season and do nothing in the regular season. Is Aaron Gray our answer for the long awaited inside presence that we have been desperately awaiting for years?!?!?! I wonder if Skiles will even give him enough minutes to prove himself during the season. Perhaps he will insert him in sitaution where the Bulls are desperate for scoring (like he did with Michael Sweetney marginally last year...oh god...So glad they got rid of that useless fatass)

by AngryAsianAce on Oct 23, 2007 2:07 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

not a bad idea
I kind of like the idea.  I could see it being a situation kind of like Curry in years past where they'd have someone to throw the ball into at the start of the game and try to establish something in the post.  Then work outwards to our perimeter players.

He still might only get 20 minutes a game, starting the first and third quarters, and then bring in Noah and Thomas for energy and athleticism off the bench.  I assume he'd see no time in the crunch.  Certainly something to try out and see what happens.  If it fails, we've dealt with slow starts before and always recovered.

by JSlakov on Oct 23, 2007 12:25 AM CDT   0 recs

I agree also
I like what you said about playing him at the start and then bring in TT and Noah for energy. Gray has a good head on his shoulders and I noticed it when the rookies met with the media after the draft. I remeber thinking that if I graded them on how they handled the media Gray had the most substance. Noah kept talking about MJ and the Knicks. Curry was what you expect from someone from OK. Gray was a real surprise.

I think what sets Gray back is he doesn't dunk when he's close to the basket. He just kinda lays the ball in the basket. It's really odd. He just does his job there isn't much flash. Maybe the scouts thought he would get his ass kicked in the pros. Maybe he will still but I like what I see so far.

''This whole parties out of control!''-Moose

by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on Oct 23, 2007 12:45 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I don't think it's lack of flash
it's lack of jumping.

But I will give Gray credit in that when he does go for that close layup he does it right away before his defender realizes it. (Preseason defender, anyway.)

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Oct 23, 2007 9:16 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Oh and your last few sentences
about Noah and Thomas. They both looked like shit. I mean Noah looked bad. The Bad Noah is a bad Noah. His who body language poor. I don't think Noah has learned the plays.

At one point in the game( I rewinded it 4 times) Noah was about to check in and he asked a question to the coaching staff and Skiles sent him back to the bench. At which point he shugged his shoulders in discust over Skiles demotion. Once he had a seat on the bench the assistant coach Boylan starter going over things with him on the white board.

Then I kept rewinding the part where Noah kinda like flug his hands and had his mouth guard hanging out. Skiles face was so red but he just kept squinting at the free throw line.

Thomas didn't work hard this summer and you can tell. He's always winded and gets lazy on passes and his stupid spin move. He's still a kid. He needs to grow up.

Of course this is just preseason so it could be a fluke. But I see what I see.

''This whole parties out of control!''-Moose

by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on Oct 23, 2007 12:35 AM CDT   0 recs

I havent seen any preseason games yet....
But I was pretty happy when the bulls drafted Aaron Gray. I don't know anything about scouting, but I do know I saw him absolutely destroy marquette's frontcourt every time we played Pitt. Kid can score.
I vaguely remember a 'jordan' something...

by boyonthedock on Oct 23, 2007 12:42 AM CDT   0 recs

Yeah he can!
He didn't really shoot much but when he did they were good shots and most went in. He has a nice  baby hook!hahahah Thats like big man 101. When I saw him make that silky 15 footer I thought damn this guy can play.
''This whole parties out of control!''-Moose

by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on Oct 23, 2007 12:52 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

He does
have a sweet hook shot.
Racecar spelled backwards is racecar.

by sue369 on Oct 23, 2007 9:08 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

the fact that this is even possible
(and I'm not sure it is)

Says that they made a high-value pick in the mid-2nd round by getting Gray. so, that's good.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Oct 23, 2007 10:45 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Marquette
Hey. I am in Marquette right now too! Who knew there were other blogabullians in Milwaukee.

by givepaxahug on Oct 23, 2007 3:05 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Marquette
Marquette is a pretty solid school for basketball fans right now. it's  real nice when the bulls play the bucks up here. last year, My friend and I were at the game where michael redd scored 52 and ben gordon scored 48 and the bulls won in overtime. I heard later they didn't even broacast it. It was the best NBA game I've ever been to.
I vaguely remember a 'jordan' something...

by boyonthedock on Oct 23, 2007 4:04 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

THat Game
My friend offered me tickets for the game and I was just too busy. Ive regretted that day ever since. I knew a couple people at that game... what year are you?

by givepaxahug on Oct 23, 2007 4:31 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Found it!
http://www.blogabull.com/comments/2007/10/19/18925/853/30#30

Im sure though he'll play bad in Dallas and JS will end up starting.I guess we'll see.

''This whole parties out of control!''-Moose

by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on Oct 23, 2007 1:02 AM CDT   0 recs

Aaron Gray had great college stats.
See this link:

http://www.draftexpress.com/viewarticle.php?a=2136

The knock against him is that he looks slow and unathletic, and people question how his game will translate to the pros.  But he might do better as a starter, running set plays in a half-court offense, than as a bench player asked to bring energy to the court.  He could also be a starter and not get starter minutes.  

But if he does start, I'm sure the other team will go at him and see if he gets some quick rookie fouls called on him.  And whoever he is covering should run the court and see if he is slow to catch up.  The problem is that the other big men, except for Wallace, seem to be behind in conditioning and/or learning the plays.  Oh well, if nothing else the Bulls have plenty of fouls to give.

by Tim S. on Oct 23, 2007 5:59 AM CDT   0 recs

On the other hand, Hollinger says:
"Seven-footers in the drafts I studied tended to greatly underperform their college stats in the pros."  He still ranked Gray ahead of Hawes, though, at number 28 on his list of college prospects, which doesn't include foreign prospects.  http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/draft2007/insider/columns/story?columnist=hollinger_john&page=Pro Rater (Insider status required, I think.)

I guess the real disappointment here is Thomas, who has played a whole year with the Bulls, and is supposed to turn into a star.  Why wouldn't he be ready to start ahead of a rookie second-round pick?  It's also too bad Joe Smith hasn't been healthy.

by Tim S. on Oct 23, 2007 6:23 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I never liked that '7-footer' caveat
It seems highly arbitrary for Hollinger, what makes 7-feet so much worse than 6-11, especially when these height measurements are usually screwy in the first place.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Oct 23, 2007 10:48 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Hmmm
I remember looking at those stats before the draft, but looking at them now and focusing on Gray is pretty eye-opening.  You could make an argument that he is one of the top 2-4 bigs in the draft overall.  In particular, he was tops in rebounds/game, 2nd in assists/game, up there in his ability to score, 2nd in PER, 2nd in efficiency/40 min, and 2nd in win score/40 (in each case, second only to Oden).

I haven't seen a preseason game (thank you Time Warner Cable), but I have liked everything I've read about Gray since the pick.  I certainly was not high on him coming out of college, but I would be thrilled to be proven wrong.

I can imagine how it could work (if -- and granted its a huge if -- he can score in the post like a poor man's Eddy, throw him out there for the first 6-10 min of each half to settle the game down), but I just can't believe its even been thrown out there as a possibility.

At the end of the day, its a real positive in that the Bulls may have a big 7 footer who can actually help the team, but its also very disconcerting that TT hasn't locked that spot down, particularly with Jos Smith being hurt.

Riding the Noah bus since March 2006

by preverbal on Oct 23, 2007 10:58 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

It's a conspiracy Matt
to drive you insane.

Seriously, I don't think Pax wants a slow start either, so he may have a few things to say to Skiles about it.  During last season Pax said he was "on the ledge" after the month of November but someone talked him out of making some hasty moves.  

by KT on Oct 23, 2007 6:34 AM CDT   0 recs

On the bright side . . .
If he does start, he probably won't be out there very long.  He'll be on the bench in a few minutes after picking up two fouls.

by Big D on Oct 23, 2007 7:37 AM CDT   0 recs

heh, it wouldn't be Bulls basketball
if we're not in the penalty halfway through the quarter :)

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Oct 23, 2007 10:46 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I did hear Lu
say on Sports NIte last night that he won't be playing tonight because of his wrist so we should get another chance to see Aaron start.

They did an interview with Aaron on there last night and he really has the desire to play well and help this team.

Racecar spelled backwards is racecar.

by sue369 on Oct 23, 2007 9:10 AM CDT   0 recs

Congrats, Sue
you broke the Aaron Gray story yesterday before any of the print media people had it up.

by alec on Oct 23, 2007 9:27 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Thanks
I watch a lot of sports news shows, especially the Chicago ones.
Racecar spelled backwards is racecar.

by sue369 on Oct 23, 2007 9:30 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I think
if Skiles wants to give it a try with starting Gray again, then tonight (vs. the Mavs) is the night to do it.  

These last couple of games of the preseason is when most of the teams start to give their regulars more minutes and are using more of a set rotation...this will show us what Gray can do against some polished starters.

If he stinks up the place tonight, then at least you still have one more preseason game to try Tyrus, Joe, or Noah in the starting lineup.  

I'm hoping for the Milwaukee game, that our regular starting five can be on the floor at least ONE time together

by ScottieCartwright on Oct 23, 2007 9:18 AM CDT   0 recs

PF Starter Does Not Matter
If you look at the minutes that our  forward and center positions will play after our starters and Nocioni get their minutes, you will find that Gray, Thomas, Smith, Griffin, and Noah will average about 10 to 12 minutes each until one steps forward to outplay the others in game situations.

Gordon, Deng, Hinrich, and Wallace-35 minutes each=140 minutes
Nocioni 25 minutes
Thalbo 15 minutes
Duhon 10 minutes

That leaves 50 minutes for everone else. Hopefully, TT will step forward and grab 20 to 25 minutes with outstanding play. At this point, I have no idea how Skiles will divide up these 50 minutes of playing time.

by Goshdengit on Oct 23, 2007 9:56 AM CDT   0 recs

Your calcs
are already flawed from the beginning...because there is no way that Griffin will avg 10-12 minutes a night.

Not unless someone is injured or the 2-3 players in front of him gets in serious foul trouble

by ScottieCartwright on Oct 23, 2007 10:24 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I don't want this to be open tryouts
It should be someone's job to lose. If a rookie wins it eventually, fine. But why give equal time to everyone when you know what Thomas, Nocioni, and Smith can do?

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Oct 23, 2007 10:27 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Precisely because
you know what Thomas, Nocioni and Smith can do.

by alec on Oct 23, 2007 10:42 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

right, so play them
don't play Aaron Gray, because he's likely a preseason mirage and I don't want to blow a couple games early in the season finding that out.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Oct 23, 2007 10:44 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

oh, and judging by Duhon's career
it takes Skiles approximately 20 games to figure out certain ideas of his don't work.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Oct 23, 2007 10:44 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

only 20 games
your undervaluing your usual hatred of duh's failures

keep in mind i'm the conductor of the "duh is great as a backup pg and only pg for no more than 20 mins especially as showcasing in a trade" train

choo choo

by milesgmsu on Oct 24, 2007 10:07 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

The three players
you mention are each significantly flawed.  Look at it this way, they're not auditioning a replacement for Deng, are they?

by alec on Oct 23, 2007 10:45 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

they're all proven
The audition is now, not the regular season, and I don't see it possible that it goes well enough in the preseason to supplant proven (if flawed) players.

And Gray isn't even playing that well! If he was dramatically outperforming the other guys (and had a better pedigree), maybe. I'm just not seeing this drastic change when Gray's out there like you guys are.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Oct 23, 2007 10:54 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I have
He's consistant. He seems to know where to be. Noah doesn't know all the plays. His scoring down low is something that has been missing. Of course he needs to get stronger and develope more moves. When he paired with Wallace they seemed to play off each other. With Wallace beeing a decent passer he foud Gray (who can catch the ball) for some easy baskets.
''This whole parties out of control!''-Moose

by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on Oct 23, 2007 11:03 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Although he could suck
in the regular season. I don't know.
''This whole parties out of control!''-Moose

by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on Oct 23, 2007 11:07 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

The starting PF from last year is gone
why should the Bulls just hand the position to anybody?  That's the antithesis of sports competition where the best person for the job should always win.  Further, how would handing the job to someone make the Bulls a better team over actually letting their play decide.

Also, Nocioni is accepted to be a better option coming off the bench,  Smith has barely played and is probably still less than 100%, and Thomas has shown little improvement from when he was a backup last year.  There's nothing cut and dry about this decision.

by rexisourqb on Oct 23, 2007 11:18 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

it's also the antithesis of a good team
to have open tryouts at this stage of their development.

Especially since the sample size is small, meaningless, and you have to strain to consider Gray as slightly outperforming his peers, let alone drastically.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Oct 23, 2007 11:23 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

The flaw in your reasoning is that
you go right from saying that a championship team shouldn't have to have open tryouts for a starting position, to deciding that means that the Bulls shouldn't have tryouts.

There's many other possibilities that come from your first statement.  First, there's the possibility is that the Bulls aren't a championship team yet.  That is supported by the fact that the supposed starting Power Forwards are either too injured or too raw to make the coach rule out the possibility of starting a surprise 2nd round rookie.

Another possibility is that there's more than one way to create a championship team.  If you can accept that the Bulls have a chance to win it all despite lack of a "superstar"  or a "low post presence", there's no reason to rule out a team winning the championship with a rookie starting and playing 15-20 minutes a night.

When it was Thomas vs Smith vs Noah, wasn't it still an open competition?  I didn't see this level of protest from you when they were considering Noah for a starting spot.  Your draft position is not equal to your skill level.

by rexisourqb on Oct 23, 2007 11:50 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

there is something cut and dry
Aaron Gray should be the last in line to start. I shouldn't miss Malik Allen on opening night, but it sure looks like I will.

by hscs on Oct 23, 2007 11:23 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

However I wouldn't start him
against Orlando or Toronto or the Suns or the Bobcats....or anyone who has an athletic center. I could see im fouling out. But you never know. I would love to see him against Duncan. That would be an education.
''This whole parties out of control!''-Moose

by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on Oct 23, 2007 10:45 AM CDT   0 recs

So is Luol playing on Holloween?
''This whole parties out of control!''-Moose

by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on Oct 23, 2007 10:46 AM CDT   0 recs

Easy question
They're starting the season and Aaron Gray is out there.

Who amongst you think that:


  1. The plan will be to feed Aaron Gray
  2. It'll work out well
  3. It'll work out well enough to counteract his defensive problems.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Oct 23, 2007 10:50 AM CDT   0 recs

Gray can score and pass and he's big.
But will he pick up quick fouls?  Probably.  Let's just hope it takes him more than four minutes to pick up two fouls.  Start him for a few minutes at the beginning of each half, feed him the ball, and see what happens.

by Tim S. on Oct 23, 2007 12:07 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I'm pretty much with Matt on this one
Watching the preseason, I've been pleasantly surprised by how well Gray has been doing, to the point of believing that he isn't so likley to do a stint in the NBDL and to get some fairly regular minutes in games - not to the point of expecting him to make the starting lineup.  That's not a knock; I really don't want to see any of the rooks in the starting lineup until they've played some meaningful minutes (i.e., not garbage time) off the bench.  Fortunately, the Bulls aren't one of the teams in the situation where they have to throw their rookies out there, a la Seattle.
"They had me do a psychology test and I asked Coach Skiles if that affected his coaching. He laughed and said, `No way.'" (Joakim Noah)

by wjb1492 on Oct 23, 2007 10:50 AM CDT   0 recs

formula
for me, I just hope that it's this simple:
production=playing time.  
I'm not as upset about the idea of tinkering in the first few weeks as long is it's not terribly dramatic.  Ten preseason games can't be too helpful for getting a solid lineup.
I do agree with the idea that starting a rookie at Center is not very inspiring.  A possible bright points of such a move:
Ben getting some minutes at PF which should help him keep from wearing down.
"...Keeping 'SlowHand' alive since aught-five"

by CookDing on Oct 23, 2007 10:55 AM CDT   0 recs

Matt, every time
someone's brought up Gray's name you've immediately ripped him.  I mean what, did the guy hit on your wife or something?  Listen, just kidding, but you seem to have it out for the guy.  What I'm trying to say is that his deficiencies may not be any worse to have in the Bulls' line-up than the deficiencies of any of their other options.

by alec on Oct 23, 2007 10:57 AM CDT   0 recs

I do have it out for Gray
or any 'feel-good' stories in camp.

Because this team should be WAY beyond the point of giving guys tryouts and letting rookie 2nd-rounders work their way up in the rotation on a couple weeks.

It's insane, this team is supposed to win the Eastern Conference, and a lot of that has to do with the supposed continuity they've forged. And the collection of talent. Gray serves neither.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Oct 23, 2007 11:19 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

although I do appreciate the idea
that you'd think I'm fit to be married. To a woman, no less.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Oct 23, 2007 11:20 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I thought about that
as I wrote it, but I felt it might be better for you to have that say.

by alec on Oct 23, 2007 11:46 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

For a long time now,
I've made a very comfortable living trading futures.  One of the hardest lessons to learn is to trade on what is rather than on what should be.  You can go broke fast trading on what should be.

Personally, I think Tyrus has played well enough to start.  He's not piling up immediate fouls.  He's gotten obviously bigger and stronger.  He's made some decent passes, hit a few mid-range jumpers...and he's still a nasty defender around the basket.

It's been argued here that Joe Smith's offense might be more important coming off the bench than starting, and I agree with that.

Noah just doesn't look like he has it together yet.  Noce is Noce.  You can play him at three different positions and he'll give you decent minutes at all three.

That leaves Gray.  I think without question Gray has been the surprise of the camp, almost a revelation.  The biggest thing about Gray is that he gives the team something they can't get from anyone else on the roster--potential scoring in the low post.  

What has been the biggest criticism of the Bulls for the past two years?  By far and away, it has been that they have lacked a post scoring threat.  That's what Gray potentially gives them.  It's no surprise Skiles is trying to figure out how best to get him in the game.

by alec on Oct 23, 2007 11:45 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

...says the boy who calls himself
"hot shit college student."

Sometimes this stuff just writes itself.

by ChrisRobin on Oct 23, 2007 2:07 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

oh, yes
its so delightfully ironic and self-referential!
Time Warner Cable: The Place to Be, if you want to see no preseason games even after paying for League Pass.

by preverbal on Oct 23, 2007 3:19 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Please feel free
to point out when our resident blog cop arrives at "tongue-in-cheek" from "lame narcissism." I'll make sure to get him something appropriate for someone of his biting wit -- a Hallmark card, perhaps?

by ChrisRobin on Oct 23, 2007 6:31 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Hey, it's a weak conference.
The Bulls are still a work in progress, like all the better teams in the Eastern Conference.  The Bulls have continuity at most positions, but Tyrus Thomas is not a proven starter, so we knew he would have to compete for the starting job.  I just don't think we anticipated Aaron Gray as his prime competition.  

But remember that Ben Wallace was undrafted.  So was Brad Miller.  And most people think it was a strong draft.  Maybe the Bulls got themselves a low-post scorer!

Yes, I'm disappointed that Skiles seems underwhelmed with Thomas, but from what I can tell he hasn't given up on him at all.  According to this article (http://www.dailyherald.com/story/?id=61777) the Bulls are "very happy with Thomas' progress."  Maybe their just even happier with Gray (good news!), or maybe we are reading way too much into this.

by Tim S. on Oct 23, 2007 12:01 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I don't know if they think he can be their
center for a few years why not throw him in the fire for the first half of the season. You can always fall back on JS who likes to take fade away 15 footers.
''This whole parties out of control!''-Moose

by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on Oct 23, 2007 10:58 AM CDT   0 recs

The post headline says it all
There should be no reason at all that a second round rookie should be starting on opening night for a team projected to get to the Eastern Conference Finals and beyond.

They groomed Tyrus in the later part of last season to be ready for this kind of problem if they faced it. They drafted Noah cause he was supposedly "NBA Ready". They signed Joe Smith pretty much FOR that spot.

Let's not get too hyped on what the rookie showed all of us in preseason. I'm as high on this guy as most of us but the fact remains, the Bulls need someone there that's shown they could do the job already.

by Option27 on Oct 23, 2007 11:15 AM CDT   0 recs

I just heard on the radio Skiles might
send JamesOn Curry the the NBADL.
''This whole parties out of control!''-Moose

by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on Oct 23, 2007 11:20 AM CDT   0 recs

I watched every minute of the preseason
and I'm not against this idea.  He was out there against starters as well as backups, and he was one of the most consistent players we had.  

His lack of speed didn't hurt him much.  He was certainly in his spot on offensive sets, was able to make baskets against all competition, usually had good rebounding position, and was there to challenge the shot on defense.  He didn't get the flashy blocks, but he definitely changed shots.  Gray's one negative was being foul prone.  That's not too bad since he was never going to play 40 minutes a game anyway.

Gray is far more ready to start than Noah, I don't care where they were picked.  Not only does he know the plays a lot better, he can contribute consistently in more ways.  Noah might have a back to the basket move, but we'll never see it because he will get stripped every single time he starts backing someone down.  His awareness and decision making is really lacking.  If it was up to me, i'd send him to big man school for the first half of the season and have him learn post moves, how to hold the ball so it's protected, how to distinguish a high % shot from a low one.  It's true that Noah has good ball handling and passing skills, but if he dribbles in traffic and can't see the open man, those skills mean nothing.

Tyrus is disappointing.  He's still depending too much on his athleticism to make up for not being in the right spot.  He's still has really poor shot selection.  He did actually hit a few midrange jumpers, which I didn't see at all last year.  He might be a better option than Gray in the starting lineup, but it's far from clear.

by rexisourqb on Oct 23, 2007 11:27 AM CDT   0 recs

Noah did have
the ball stripped from him several times the other night. I agree Tyrus has been disappointing so far.

I can't believe all this angst over something that may not happen and if it does happen no amount of whining will change it.

Racecar spelled backwards is racecar.

by sue369 on Oct 23, 2007 11:46 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

exactly
I think the overreaction to this is WAY over the top.  After starting Gray possibly tonight and possibly against Milwaukee, they may (and probably will) see that that is the wrong option.

Everyone should calm down and give it a chance.

I'm not as down on this idea as I thought I would be.

People keep saying that he shouldn't start at the expense of Tyrus, Noah, and Smith...well who's to say that it IS at the expense of them?  Maybe he beat them fair and square to deserve this lil mini try-out.

Give the kid a chance...if he stinks, then fine, sit him down...but he may surprise some people.

by ScottieCartwright on Oct 23, 2007 12:10 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

i'm not only
considering the preseason games...he's had chances all summer (incl. summer league) and in training camp to show his worth over the other guys...it's been more than a "handful of preseason games"

by ScottieCartwright on Oct 23, 2007 2:14 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

but according to Skiles
he more or less sucked in the summer.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Oct 23, 2007 2:15 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

true
which makes the starting lineup comments that much more head scratching

like you said...this could just be one big head game by Skiles

by ScottieCartwright on Oct 23, 2007 2:25 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Here come the Kobe rumors again...
Lakers to make trade this week. They might try to revive the JO deal