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One Last Stab at the Duhon Effect: It's Not Just Kirk

[From the Diaries. Hopefully this turns out to be a kind of eulogy ;-) -Matt]

The Duhon Effect is something often discussed here at Blog-a-Bull, but it's worth discussing again. With it's end in sight, I thought I'd get in one last diary while it's still relevant.  I know the Kirk stuff is largely old news here, but I decided to include it because of how it relates to Thabo.

If you just look at Duhon the player. He's a starting caliber PG for a half dozen teams that play high usage wing players. He's one of the best defensive PGs in the entire league. He shoots 3s well enough to be an effective spot up shooter. And his turnovers are manageable. He'd be perfect for Cleveland, Atlanta, or the Lakers. However, watch enough Bulls games over the last couple of years and many people, myself included, get the impression that Duhon has a negative impact. While finding that negative impact in his own numbers is hard, I discovered this summer that his negative impact shows up in other players' stat sheets. He drags other people down, specifically Kirk Hinrich and Thabo Sefolosha.

The biggest issue is Duhon's negative effect on Hinrich's play. In 05/06, Kirk's PER dropped 2.5 points from 18.1 to 15.6 when Kirk when playing with Duhon. In 06/07, Kirk's PER dropped 3.5 points from 19.9 to 16.4 when playing with Duhon. That's the difference between being tied for 5th best PER with Chauncey Billups among PGs and being tied for 14th best with Mo Williams. When Kirk played SG with Duhon on the floor his effective FG% dropped 7%, he had 2 less assists/40 min, and 1 less reb/40 min. So not only are the Bulls trading Ben Gordon for Chris Duhon offensively, but they're getting less offense from Kirk Hinrich. In contrast, Sefolosha didn't force Hinrich to SG and didn't have a negative effect on Hinrich. With Sefolosha, Hinrich had the same increase of 1 FGA, 1 FTA, and 0.5 steals/40 min, but didn't have the significant drop in FG%, rebounding, or assists so he averaged 2.5 more points/40 min with Thabo than with Duhon. Sefolosha was also able to match Duhon's production, without negative effects on Hinrich. As I've said before, there is no reason to play Duhon and Hinrich together this season. So far this season, Skiles has kept them apart so I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

The one player who suffered more than Kirk from playing with Duhon was Thabo Sefolosha. Thabo played 391 minutes with Duhon on the floor, nearly 1/2 his total minutes. During the year, I was frustrated whenever Skiles put them on the floor together. Playing two reluctant shooters at the guard position is a recipe for disaster, and Skiles failed to give Thabo the opportunity to succeed whenever he played them together. Today I noticed just how stark the negative impact on Thabo was when looking through the Bulls' Player Pairs data at 82games.com. When playing with Duhon, Thabo shot 33.6% and had 3.8 TO/40 min. Awful doesn't even begin to describe those numbers. But when Duhon wasn't on the court, Thabo had a very solid 50.3 FG% and 1.8 TO/40 min. Which is the real Thabo? Even before seeing these numbers, I've always believed in the latter successful Thabo. The one I saw knocking down 3s in the playoffs against Miami. I thought he was simply misused by Skiles last year. These numbers only confirm it for me. Thabo is a natural role player willing to sacrifice for his teammates, which is all the Bulls need him to be. But to be an effective role player, you have to play with really good players. What good would Bruce Bowen be on a bad team? His entire career before San Antonio answers that question. Thabo was drafted to play with Kirk Hinrich and Ben Gordon, not Chris Duhon, and that's how he should largely be judged.

Chris Duhon can be effective playing backup PG to Hinrich and playing with Ben Gordon, who suffers no ill effectives from playing with Duhon. He's a solid player on the wrong team, who unfortunately doesn't have enough trade value to bring anything Paxson wants in return. But, the idea of Sefolosha being able to kick Duhon out of the rotation looks a lot more promising. And the chance to finally see Kirk Hinrich's true value as a PG looks like a near guarantee for now. While the Duhon effect is less noticable elsewhere, Duhon nearly doubles Ben Wallace's turnovers. I was hoping for a Duhon trade this summer to put an end to the Duhon Effect, but that end may come with him still on the team.

Player Pair data for the Chicago Bulls and the other stats I used are available at 82games.com:
http://www.82games.com/0607/0607CHIP.HTM

FanPosts are user-created posts from the BlogABull community, and are to be treated as the opinions and views of that particular user, not that of the blogger or blog community as a whole.

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that
is that post that I have been looking for.  Nice look into Duhon, especially not falling for the classic (and oversimplified) "Du Sucks" rant.  
At this point, trading Du would probably be a good thing.  Why the Lakers don't get realistic and try to pair him with Gordon and others in a trade is beyond me.  
The problem, as I see it, is how do the Bulls use both Thabo and Du as backups without them being on the floor at the same time?  Playing Du with Ben and Deng/Noce is a start but do we really see Skiles sitting him a whole bunch?  I have to think, given history, that Du is the first guard off the bench.  Anything before Griffin, but I would probably like to see what Thabo brings.  Especially without Du.
"...Keeping 'SlowHand' alive since aught-five"

by CookDing on Oct 18, 2007 2:51 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I wish 82games had a section
just for the Tiny Ball lineup. In retrospect it was +25, but the times it didn't work were shockingly bad. At least I recall them as shockingly bad.

by hscs on Oct 18, 2007 4:14 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Thabo
is he going to bring the ball up and play any minutes at PG?  I originally thought that was the plan but they didnt use him that much in that role last year, did they?

by Sambossanova on Oct 18, 2007 4:31 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

What a fantasic post!!!
I was sitting down in the Memphis airport with over an hour to kill.  I thought I would log on to blogabull and research and make the best post I have ever made, making a name for myself here along with the joejoe's, option27, and that loud mouth, sarcastic guy from last season (I can't remember his name)  Then I open and read this post.  This is everything I wanted.  A deep analysis that goes beyond random opinion and gets to the heart of the problem.  As an added plus you also explained how Du would be valuable in a trade to the correct team.  It would be one of those low cost, high benefit trades if Pax could pull the trigger.

The only non statistical point I would like to make is that Du is a great pure backup point guard.  Believe me, when necessary you don't want Gordon full time at the point.  You don't want Barrett to have to play real minutes.  I hav'nt seen Thabo that Pippen like that he could handle the point full time if Kirk went down.  That would be the only reason to keep Du.  

by joemoses on Oct 18, 2007 4:36 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

true, SBulls9030 brings it
but does that mean I only offer "random opinion"?

(Ok, I do say 'duh sux' alot.)

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Oct 18, 2007 4:47 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Great Post
I like the fact that you brought up Du's value to the Lakers.  I don't see any value in Sasha and Farmar.  Du and Gordon would be an upgrade over those two and 2 young guards that come at a relatively cheap price.  Du brings a level of leadership that neither of those guards bring!!

by tyrus4prez on Oct 18, 2007 4:42 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Du will lead them to 25 wins
I'll stick up for Farmar, he's only 20.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Oct 18, 2007 4:49 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

and jewish
and awesome

by milesgmsu on Oct 19, 2007 9:12 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Duhon's only a good fit in LA if he's playing with
Kobe Bryant.  He needs to play with a selfish wing player.

by Scotter on Oct 18, 2007 5:10 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

But...
He would still have Ben Gordon! ;)
Garbage-Time: We think Kobe would look good in red .

by Wade.Jones on Oct 18, 2007 5:48 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

To add a few more statistics
Thabo's TO-r with Duhon is 18.9% and without Duhon it's 10.7%, which is slightly lower than Duhon's 11.1%.

Thabo's TS% is 45.1% with Duh and 53.7% without Duh, slightly higher than Duhon's 52.9%.

Thabo's USG-r is 17.6 with Duh, 14.8 without, and Duhon's is 15.2.

So Thabo last year used basically the same amount of possessions and turned the ball over a little less and shot slightly better.  

by Scotter on Oct 18, 2007 5:01 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

thanks sbulls
this is fantastic.
Nocioni-Khryapa in '08

by bullshooter on Oct 18, 2007 5:55 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Forward to KC?
Can anyone forward this to KC Johnson and have him accidently leave it on Skiles' desk? Or maybe even Pax and Kupchak? Somebody somewhere has to make it happen. NOW!!!

Awesome post.

by CubFan81 on Oct 18, 2007 9:36 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Maybe if KC
reads BallHype he'll see this post and pass it on.

http://ballhype.com:80/story/one_last_stab_at_the_duhon_effect_it_s_not_just_kirk/

Racecar spelled backwards is racecar.

by sue369 on Oct 19, 2007 12:20 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

no point.
Duhon is a backup point guard. He's not better than Kirk, and that's why he's a backup. There aren't many backup PGs that are better than Duhon.

And what?- trade Duhon and have our backup PG being Barnett? or Curry? Then we'll complain about them.

by chicago-homesick-blues on Oct 19, 2007 5:21 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

aren't many backup PGs that are better than Duhon
I agree...there AREN'T...period.

Now I'm not a Du lover, but I do recall him coming into many games at P and directing the team, allowing Kirk AND BG to sit and rest - yet not lose momentum and then rain some 3's to keep it all going forward...

But to trade Du leaving Barnett or Curry as B/U?
WTF?

Thabo is solid and will get better...
But he's NOT a leader, at least not yet.

My point is that although Du has indeed had blunders - he has also indeed had many times where I for one was GLAD he was there...especially in those games where neither Hinrich NOR Gordon could hit the broad side of the United Center.

I'm just sayin...

Is it spring training yet?

by Bluelou on Oct 19, 2007 11:19 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

plus he's always good
for a triple double on opening night

by milesgmsu on Oct 22, 2007 12:38 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Duhon? Duhon?
We talkin Chris Duhon?
''This whole parties out of control!''-Moose

by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on Oct 19, 2007 7:57 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

nice post
what does duhon do to ben's stats versus kirks and bens stats?

and what about the frontline?

by milesgmsu on Oct 19, 2007 9:13 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Perhaps Hinrich and Sefolosha should start with
Duhon and Gordon coming off the bench!  

Of course with all the big men we suddenly have there is also the Deng at SG experiment.  Unfortunately, if Deng spends significant time at SG that leaves little time for Sefolosha.  

But if Deng works out at SG, I wouldn't mind seeing Hinrich and Deng as the starting guards with Duhon and Gordon coming off the bench.  The future of the Bulls rests on the development of Thomas and Noah, and perhaps even Gray, more so than Sefolosha.  There just aren't enough minutes for everyone on this team!

And we haven't even mentioned Griffin, Gardner, and Curry!

by Tim S. on Oct 19, 2007 9:35 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Hinrich and Sefolosha should start
Actually this is a decent idea - but I fear the problem is BG is a starter now, and I don't think he'd sit well with coming off the bench anymore.

Which is unfortunate - I seem to remember a VERY good Toni Kukoc doing that an being fine with it, and earning a LOT of credibility in the process.

Is it spring training yet?

by Bluelou on Oct 19, 2007 11:28 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

toni started 1/2 his games as a bull
and nostalgic anecdotes have no bearing on two completely different players and teams. your gordon mind reading aside, the bulls can't afford to not start him. immediately limiting the best scorer's minutes would be and has been foolish.

by hscs on Oct 19, 2007 11:34 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

If you wanna flame...bring it on but have a clue
I'd rather be a "mind reader" as you put it than to be shallow of reasoning.
But this is what you get from someone who relies on stats for his ammo...

Stats say that Kukoc started 50% of his games as a Bull...

But stats DON'T indicate the reality of the reasoning of that and why: It only happened when MJ wasn't there for the first two years, and then when Pip or Rodman were injured after MJ's return.

And then he provided EXCELLENT work from the bench...night after night after night.

Is it spring training yet?

by Bluelou on Oct 19, 2007 11:48 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Because it was a team thing and not ego
that won championships back then.
And Kukoc would rather be a great player off the bench for the Bulls than a good player on a team that wouldn't win it all.
Is it spring training yet?

by Bluelou on Oct 19, 2007 11:51 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

huh?
My reasoning was benching the team's best scorer is dumb (the offense sucks), and Toni Kukoc has nothing to do with Ben Gordon. Seems more reasonable than imagining how Gordon feels about it.

by hscs on Oct 19, 2007 11:55 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Is Gordon the most efficient scorer?
Or simply the most willing to take the shots?  And although Gordon can score in bunches, he doesn't do much else, whereas Deng and Hinrich have more complete games.  Plus, we want our big men, with the possible exception of Wallace, to learn how to score more.  What better way than putting them in a starting line up with Deng and Hinrich as the guards?

If Gordon is so vital, why is he always the first person mentioned in any trade?  I think he is overvalued by the league because of his scoring.  But Detroit exposed his weak defense last year in the playoffs, and as long as he is vital to the Bulls' offense the Bulls are in trouble when they play the best teams in the league.

I agree that we need more offense, but that means that we either need to trade for more offense, or we need to see whether Noah and Thomas can step it up, and whether Deng can take it to another level.  Gordon is a great, great bench player, often able to light it up on a moment's notice, and, I judge, a liability as a starter.

But, all that being said, I agree that he probably will start at the beginning of the year unless and until Deng really takes over the SG position and the big men show that they can score.  If nothing else, the Bulls may want to showcase Gordon as trade bait.  And they can cover for his defense in the regular season.  But if the playoffs come around and Gordon is still starting and playing 35 minutes a game, I'll be worried.

Of course, I suppose it is possible that Gordon will cut down his turnovers and improve his assists and rebounds and steals and be a more consistent and efficient scorer.  He is a hard worker, I'll give him that.  But I would rather plan to trade him and hope for improvement from Deng, Thomas, and Noah.

by Tim S. on Oct 19, 2007 12:41 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

take a trip to the blogabull archives
I'm not retyping the same Ben Gordon stuff for the 1,000,000th time. I'm weighing efficiency very heavily.

Deng is never going to play significant minutes at shooting guard. Yeesh, this is worse than Sene and Frye longing put together.

by hscs on Oct 19, 2007 12:54 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yep, I'm not the first one to worry about Gordon.
Skiles and Paxson seem quite worried about him.  And I don't think they will (and fervently hope they will not) sign him at the market price for such a one-dimensional scorer.

You may be right about Deng at SG.  And you are right that the Bulls need scoring.  But either Gordon has to improve his all-around play, or they need to find an alternative way to score, either by trade or by improvement of the other players they have.

And again, getting back to Duhon, starting Hinrich and Gordon almost assures that Duhon will not play many minutes with Gordon, the only guard who does not suffer from being out there with him.  Maybe they can substitute Duhon for Hinrich while keeping Gordon in, then double-substitute Hinrich for Duhon and Sefolosha for Gordon, then substitute Gordon for Sefolosha.  But if they have to start Gordon, it will be an interesting dance keeping Duhon away from Hinrich and Sefolosha.

Of course, I suppose they could start Duhon with Gordon.  But then the fans would riot.

by Tim S. on Oct 19, 2007 1:32 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

It's not that hard of a rotation
it works just like you described.  Usually foul trouble forces either Gordon or Hinrich to the bench about eight minutes into a game.  Whoever stays in plays the entire 1st quarter and sometimes the start of the 2nd.  The rotation proceeds from there.

But, it would be easier to just play Sefolosha at both backup spots.  

Skiles and Paxson have had nothing, but praise so far for Gordon this season.  And as Gordon improves at playing PG when Hinrich is out then Gordon won't be one dimensional.  And Hinrich and Gordon will play less minutes together, minimizing defense issues even farther.  They're alot of scorers around in the NBA, Gordon has become an efficient scorer without major shot selection issues that kind of player is alot rarer.

by Scotter on Oct 19, 2007 2:04 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Thanks for the response, and great post.
While it is true that Skiles and Paxson have had nothing but praise for Gordon this year, they haven't signed him yet, nor have we seen him play much.  Furthermore Deng is the one who is said to be untouchable in trades, while Gordon seems like the prime bargaining chip.  And the rumors are that Deng is much more likely to be signed this year than Gordon.  It sounds like Gordon works hard during the off season and does everything his coaches want, but he can't get any taller or longer.  

Maybe he can get quicker on defense by focusing on it more, or maybe not.  I do hope he learns the point guard position, improving his assists and cutting down on his turnovers, but I'm not holding my breath.  I agree that Gordon is an efficient scorer, but so far he isn't much else, and he can be streaky even in scoring.

I do think Gordon is an asset to the team, but I think that as a one-dimensional scorer he is overvalued by the league, even though I agree that he is an efficient scorer.  Unless he gives the Bulls a significant home town discount, I doubt that he will be signed, and I would be worried if the Bulls signed him at his market value.

I'll be interested to see if Sefolosha is given the chance to play with someone other than Duhon, and if so whether he bears out your predictions.  I'm not completely sold on him yet.  But it would be great if Duhon really is the problem, and Sefolosha could get rid of those awful numbers you cite.

by Tim S. on Oct 19, 2007 2:50 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

What would be an acceptable contract?
Kevin Martin got 5 years 55 million.  Would that be to much for Gordon in your opinion?

by Scotter on Oct 19, 2007 3:11 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

The question is
would it be acceptable to BG? I'm thinking no.
Racecar spelled backwards is racecar.

by sue369 on Oct 19, 2007 3:26 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

money money money money
Actually, I think that is right at the sweet spot for BG.  If he signs at around $11 mil/per, and Deng at around $12 mil/per, I'd be satisfied.
Riding the Noah bus since March 2006

by preverbal on Oct 19, 2007 3:31 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yes, I think it would be too much.
Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe Kevin Martin is several inches taller than Gordon, has half as many turnovers as Gordon, and has far fewer fouls than Gordon.  Judging by pure points and scoring efficiency, they seem about the same, but Martin does better in other categories.  

I think Hinrich is a better player than Gordon, and I think Martin was better last year, at least, than either Hinrich or Gordon.  So I don't think they should offer Gordon any more than they gave Hinrich ($47.5 million), and probably less.

On the other hand, if I were Gordon's agent I would recommend turning it down and testing free agency, since I think many teams would be willing to overpay for Gordon's scoring.  And if they do, I think the Bulls should let him go, although they will have a year to see if he improves before making that decision.  

Although I really think that if Gordon doesn't sign, the Bulls should trade Gordon for whatever they can get (along with the expiring contracts of Duhon and Khryapa), since they will likely lose him anyway, unless they are willing to overpay.

The Bulls have more than enough supporting players.  What they need are superstars.  I don't think Gordon is going to be a superstar.  Maybe Deng, Thomas, and Noah won't be either, but they have a better chance of it than Gordon.

by Tim S. on Oct 19, 2007 4:05 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Everything you're saying has a logic to it.
I would agree that Hinrich is a better player than Hinrich.  Martin is better in all the ways you listed.  But, would add this distinction.  Gordon has far more ability to create his own shot than Martin and for his teammates.  And Gordon despite the height difference is a better defender.  I find their overall worth to be quite similar.

Not resigning Gordon and trading or letting him walk because the market over values his scoring is one way to look at the problem.  Dave Berri of Wages of Wins would suggest that route.  But, Dave Berri also suggested starting Chris Duhon with Kirk Hinrich after the Bulls let Gordon walk.  

The market overvalues scoring, but it's still the market.  Because of that, the Bulls got Kirk Hinrich at a discount compared to his production.  Deng will also likely come at a discount.  So in my mind those savings make up for paying a little extra to keep Gordon.  Because everyone else who can score is also over valued.  Martin set the market, and he set it alot lower than it could have been.  5 years 55 million seems like a pretty good deal for Gordon, and the Bulls financially.  

by Scotter on Oct 19, 2007 4:41 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Are you saying that scoring guards don't come
cheap, and that we need a scoring guard in that position, rather than a pass-first guard like Duhon playing out of position, or a small forward like Deng also playing out of position?  If so, that's an interesting theory, and I can't say you are wrong because I just don't know, but it irks me to overpay for a scoring guard.

by Tim S. on Oct 19, 2007 5:22 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

the main thing
is that Toni was NOT the Bulls leading scorer...BG IS

How many teams in the league do you see that have their leading scorer come off the bench??

by ScottieCartwright on Oct 19, 2007 12:07 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Worth keeping in mind
Great post. If we can display Duhon's value as a backup working with Gordon and if Thabo can show he can handle point work (big if) Du could yet be a key trade piece toward the deadline. Package him with another minor piece and it could be a great way to make a small upgrade.
You know, the kind that Pax is so good at but also means he has no balls :)

by Old Skool Sloan on Oct 19, 2007 9:47 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Another hilarious post by Matt!!!!!!
Duhon could not and would not be a a starting  guard with a half dozen teams.  What are you smoking Matt??  Chris Duhon is NOT a good player or even an average player for that matter.  His shots seem to always go down when playing in garbage time.  He always seems to put players in awkward positions.   He sucks!  I'm going to celebrate big time once he's out of here!  His career FG% is .39%.  Pathetic.  I'm praying that Thabo and playing Deng in the backcourt once and awhile will cut Duhon's minutes to almost nothing.
Is it me or does Lebron walk like a duck?!

by GranvilleWaiters on Oct 19, 2007 9:47 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

for once: stop being a shithead.
If you can't even see who wrote the post I won't bother exploring how the rest of your unnaturally boisterous opinions are formed.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Oct 19, 2007 9:56 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

unnaturally boisterous opinions
Bwahaha!
Now this IS a funny post Matt!    :-)
Is it spring training yet?

by Bluelou on Oct 19, 2007 11:29 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Starting is not a function of being good
It's a function of everyone else being worse.  And a function of how you're used.  If Chris Duhon played with Kobe, LeBron, or the Atlanta chuckers he'd never have to create his own shot.  He could simply do what he does best.  Play defense and stand five feet behind the 3-point.  Cleveland started Eric freaking Snow most of last year.  You're telling me Duhon isn't better?  He's not better than Anthony Johnson and Lue?  Or Jordan Farmar?  Denver would be perfect for Duhon, AI and Carmelo would never let him take a shot.  There are 1/2 dozen teams in the NBA with complete crap at PG right now.  Which means Duhon could start for them, while barely deserving to get off the bench in Chicago.

And if your going to quote his career FG% at me, at least know what it means.  1/2 his shots are 3-pointers where he makes a respectable 36% of them.  Which means his actual career effective FG% is 48%.

 

by Scotter on Oct 19, 2007 12:51 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Duhon Effect
I have yet to see Chris play well against playoff teams that have decent guards. I know he has great games against teams like Atlanta and Milwaukee, but he can't wait to turn the ball over against Detroit or San Antonio.

by RogersPark Kris on Oct 19, 2007 11:31 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Thanks
for doing this. I am hoping Du will find employment elsewhere soon.
Racecar spelled backwards is racecar.

by sue369 on Oct 19, 2007 12:21 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Duhon is a jerk in person.....
if that makes sense. Anyways I talked to him at Northbrook court and he was pretty much a dick. He's got alittle chip on his shoulder. I think he might be gay but I know he's not. He looks like he should be.
''This whole parties out of control!''-Moose

by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on Oct 19, 2007 12:42 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

He is just kind of a liability
when out there. He would work on a team like the Lakers but for the Bulls, he just plays good D, which a lot of guys on our squad does. And hits that occasional 3. I honetly remember him being a bit better two years ago but maybe because the Bulls talent as a team wasn't as polished

by Option27 on Oct 19, 2007 2:00 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

i was at a bulls game last year
and i heard skiles call duhon "c-duh" and i hated him even more

by Jbasic89 on Oct 19, 2007 3:06 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

ha

by milesgmsu on Oct 22, 2007 12:38 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

The Bulls
exercise their options on TT and Thabo.

http://www.nba.com/bulls/news/thomas_sefolosha_071019.html

Racecar spelled backwards is racecar.

by sue369 on Oct 19, 2007 4:01 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

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