Luol-post option (and other Bulls/Wiz preseason thoughts)
(I'll preface by saying that tonight's game was against an out-manned Wizards team, so it's tough to glean that much relevance)
Those who are seemingly to be hard-wired to yelp 'low post presence' when describing the Bulls don't fully get it. Mostly by overstating the 'need', but also by assuming that it has to be Pau Gasol, or some other 7-footer. Or even a player that does most of his damage in the post.
That's not the need. The symptom keeping the Bulls offense at a below-average efficiency is that unless they're in transition, they have to run their full offense to get a good shot. There's nothing wrong with doing that a majority of the time, but having an option to ditch their 'stuff' and just give it to somebody for a high-percentage look (or a quick double-team) is a nice failsafe to keep from having the notorious long scoring droughts while also keeping the turnovers down.
But how often is that really needed, a half-dozen possessions a game? The Bulls should ditch their whole up-tempo, ball-movement, player-movement scheme to acquire some lumbering oaf? Make a trade for someone just because they have a jump-hook? It's not like the Bulls don't have enough size or depth (and -hopefully- skill) in their frontcourt anymore.
I like instead what the plan seems to be: give Luol Deng a chance to be that guy.
And why not, look at couple of other elite teams in the conference: Detroit posts up their guards and Prince. KG likes his game more as a high-post facilitator, so Paul Pierce is their best post player. The Cavs have big Z, but it's not like they're running every play through him (if they indeed run plays in Cleveland). If the Bulls get Kobe Bryant, then he'll be that guy.
In the preseason so far, Luol's started out looking to post up. The results have been mixed, and we have no idea if or how effectively it'll work in the regular season, but at least it's looking like he's been working on it. And it's a better option then acquiring someone, unless we're talking about a major upgrade to the rotation.
Some of the fawning over Aaron Gray in the game thread comments were the genesis of that point. Nothing against Gray, but his low-post game isn't some 'missing dimension', because Gray won't be getting any meaningful minutes this season, and if he is we should all be frightened . The whole idea of needing this low-post presence is that it'll be needed against good teams when the 'normal' Bulls offense needs some help generating easy shots. So would you rather see Gray out there for the sake of having someone to post-up? Or instead trust one of your best players (and therefore on the court) in Luol Deng to attempt the same?
Some other thoughts from Tuesday's preseason game:
- Besides the post-ups, Luol also tried to diversify by using the ball fake. Take that Mr. 'Luol has no trickery' Hollinger!
- Noc is still gunning, a lot. He had a couple jumpers blocked as well, not a good sign. An even worse sign if he keeps it up when Gordon gets back.
- The 2nd quarter was pretty abysmal offensively, with way too many near-violations of the shot clock. Not a big deal since there were some poor lineups out there, but it brought back bad memories of Bulls games past. And it featured a spectacularly-missed Ty Thomas fallaway jumper.
(quick aside on Thomas: this has been suggested before, but he's also a low-post option. Teams just have to foul him when he catches the ball in the post: not because he'll make a great move, but because he'll jump over their heads. And in the theme of this post, the key is that he's on the team and on the court, so lets use him for the few posessions the offense needs it.)
- Nice to see Noah blaze past former Bull Darius Songaila on one play. Ya know, seeing the difference between Bulls big-men past and present, hopefully.
- I thought Kirk looked excellent in the 3rd quarter. I'll scoff at any mention of him not being enough of a 'true' point guard. Bob Cousy's dead, (he's not?!?!) teams need offense from their point guard, and especially the Bulls who regularly play one non-factor on offense as is. So if Hinrich wants to dribble right to a spot and take an uncontested jumper himself, go crazy.
- I'm still not sold on the Deng(SG) and Noc(SF) lineup combination, but one thing Skiles' guard rotation has taught us so far is that it looks like Duhon is strictly relegated to being Hinrich's backup, and that's a good thing. So far we've seen Gardner and Deng at the two, and remember that Gordon, Sefolosha, and Griffin may also be ahead of Duhon on the two-guard depth chart. Perhaps tiny-ball is done forever.
- We all got a first look at Joe Smith. His rebounding looked suspect, but even on a bad wheel he was more mobile than PJ Brown, and that's the key to any Bulls big.
Ok, so the Bulls played their starters more than the Wiz, but consider this: The Bulls outscored 'em 21-11 in the first quarter, and 36-21 in the third. The defense looked dominant. I'm very very excited to see this team in full, and thus am holding nightly vigils for the return of Ben Gordon.
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61 comments
Comments
the user comments are hilarious
"I too caught the game on Direct TV channel 640 but not until it was too late - 4th qtr. Was it me or were the Comcast Chicago announcers horrible? NOw Buckhantz and Chenier are homers as well but these guys were second rate."
by ScottieCartwright on Oct 17, 2007 8:41 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
my thoughts exactly
I particularly enjoyed the vigorous debate about whether or not the cellphone a 5-year-old fan was holding was real or fake... ..(kerr, incredulously: "No! that has to be fake). ..what a treat.
Can we get Ron Santo or Keith Richards to announce!?!
by CookDing on Oct 17, 2007 9:04 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Do you think
by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on Oct 17, 2007 12:00 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Trade him a few of the LuvaBulls
by Big D on Oct 17, 2007 12:24 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I like cougars
by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on Oct 17, 2007 12:26 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i think the lakers old lady dance team
joke 1B
any of the lakers old lady dance team (as in over 28....AOOOOOO)
by milesgmsu on Oct 17, 2007 9:27 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Great points and I am also encouraged
by Scotter on Oct 17, 2007 12:41 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Personally
I agree on Gray too, he's not going to be a low-post option this year by any means. He has been a very pleasant surprise so far but being a rookie (and not terribly atheletic) is not going to help him. I will say, though, that I love that hook shot and he seems to have little trouble going to it. If he keeps that up, he will be a solid pickup by Pax.
My favorite part about last night was the moment when I began to appreciate how put together this team is. This is the first pre-season in a long time when I knew that the Bulls were going to be very good. For me at least, every preseason since Jackson was in town has been very speculative-worrying about the fragile state of the team. Last night, I saw a team that seemed to be humming. Ben looked spry, Hinrich somehow looked much improved, Deng was wonderfully active (especially on the glass) and even Gardner looked like he was in synch. Suddenly, the season is something that has me anxious in a positive way. ...i can't wait for this season to play out.
by CookDing on Oct 17, 2007 7:25 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
"perpetual thread
a few more thoughts...
Smith looked rusty pretty much all over (though not terrible) with the exception of his jump shot. That J has plenty of range and it was great to seem him get it off with a man in his face. Hopefully, that translates to the Bulls finally having a veteran Big man that can play a role in the offense. It was great to see him and Darius on the court and think about how far the roster has come.
The really great part about last night was the fact that Ben G was not playing. I mean, I would have loved to see him out there but the team looking smooth without him was very encouraging. It's like playing poker and knowing that you have the river card in your favor. Once he's in the rotation, this team should really start clicking.
by CookDing on Oct 17, 2007 7:35 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i always like darius
and he was never the same after he blew out his (insert body part below the waist integral for on the court activities, and not off court...beat you to the truck sex remark option ;-) )
by milesgmsu on Oct 17, 2007 9:29 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's the problem for Washington
by Scotter on Oct 17, 2007 11:39 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
perpetual thread, cont.
You say, "This is the first pre-season in a long time when I knew that the Bulls were going to be very good. For me at least, every preseason since Jackson was in town has been very speculative-worrying about the fragile state of the team."
I think a lot of people feel the same way...including Paxson. Given all the bizarre uncertainty surrounding the roster, the team the Bulls are putting out on the floor right now looks very promising. It's hard to imagine Paxson blowing up the roster to the degree necessary to get Kobe. He'd have to throw out the window everything he's spent the last three years building. I don't see it from him.
by alec on Oct 17, 2007 10:19 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well
But to agree with ya, last night was really fun to watch. They looked like what we and most media writers envisioned when predicting them to take the East. Even Skiles was impressed an that says a lot.
by Option27 on Oct 17, 2007 10:07 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The difference
by CookDing on Oct 17, 2007 10:36 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Deng's post-game?
by tyger1147 on Oct 17, 2007 9:02 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
The trend
by CookDing on Oct 17, 2007 10:38 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wouldnt start Tyrus
by philosoball on Oct 17, 2007 10:23 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
He does not neet to make
by Scotter on Oct 17, 2007 11:46 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree that Tyrus is already good
by philosoball on Oct 17, 2007 11:50 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well he can't
by sue369 on Oct 17, 2007 12:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, I'm not suggesting that Tyrus not get a lot
by philosoball on Oct 17, 2007 12:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Putting him on the bench is the wrong the move
Also I don't see how it encourages Tyrus's work ethic if he's the best PF and still sitting on the bench. Teaching a lesson that way is likely to siimply inspire rebellion. He can always be benched if mistakes become a problem, and then it will have a clear connection to his play. But alot of times it helps to show a little trust and faith.
by Scotter on Oct 17, 2007 12:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well said.
by sue369 on Oct 17, 2007 12:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree that one of the goals is getting Tyrus to
Whether his reaction to coming off the bench is motivation or rebellion I'll leave to Skiles. I do have faith in Skiles to make these decisions, at least more than I trust us fans, but like I said before, Tyrus seems to be the least polished of the Bulls players at this point and yet the most talented. A difficult situation to say the least.
by philosoball on Oct 17, 2007 1:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thomas
That's a good assessment of Thomas right now.
I heard them say they the coaches were not very pleased that he didn't spend his summer working out with them - which would DEFINATELY helped his cause for shooting better and maybe even starting.
These guys have their own choice in such matters - and it shows his lack of maturity to choose NOT to work to the best of his ability and "polish" his skills in the offseason.
Since drafting Noah and Pax stating right then that he could always use Noah for a trade....
Then Noah taking upon himself to work ALL SUMMER at the Bulls facility - is what got him where he is now as a (likely) keeper, a fan pleaser, and will also probably result in a lot of minutes this season.
Thomas should follow his example.
by Bluelou on Oct 17, 2007 1:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I thought the simplication was rather obvious
If Thomas starts it provides an opportunity to take the most advantage of his good games. It also creates a three clearly different options at backup PF for Skiles in Noc, Smith, and Noah. If he wants to go small he can play Noc for a few minutes before sliding him over to backup Deng. And Smith and Noah are both available and Skiles can decide which one to bring in 1st based on need. Starting Thomas creates much more natural rotations that are alot easier to use effectively.
If Thomas starts he's the fourth option, instead of the third on offense. There's much less pressure to create offensively, and he's free to focus on offensive rebounding and defense. Also, athletic frontcourt players like Thomas are largely dependent on their guard play. He much better off playing with both Hinrich and Gordon on the floor than with Duhon. Last year, Thomas shot 50% from the floor with either Gordon or Hinrich on the floor. He shot 44.6% with Duhon on the floor and had 2 more FTA/48 min with Duhon, which is an indication he was having to create more offense by himself with Duhon on the floor. Start him and simplify the game for him.
by Scotter on Oct 17, 2007 1:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
While my answer was detailed,
by Scotter on Oct 17, 2007 6:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Im not sure if the statistics you cite are enough
by philosoball on Oct 17, 2007 7:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's a project that helps the Bulls win games
Thomas's strengths are on the defensive end, the team plays much better defensive when Thomas is on the floor. Shouldn't he being using those strengths against the opposing team's best players?
I'm not saying that Tyrus isn't a project. I'm arguing that he's a project that helps the Bulls win right now, more than anyone else they could play at that spot. If he helps the team win shouldn't he be playing? Can't he develop while playing? Pippen struggled to make jumpshots even during the 1st championship, it didn't stop him from playing or developing or from getting to the basket. What's going to be more meaningful playing time? Playing against starters or coming off the bench and playing garbage time?
I believe if you want players to develop. They need to play meaningful minutes with the best players and against the best players. And while he's developing the Bulls will actually win more games.
by Scotter on Oct 17, 2007 8:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not to beat a dead hose but
by philosoball on Oct 17, 2007 8:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
needs to learn fundamentals=practice?
And the Ben Gordon comparison doesn't hold alot of water with me. 1st, because Gordon should have been starting alot of that time, he was coming off the bench. 2nd, when Gordon really struggles offensively he hurts the team. Tyrus can be struggling offensively and still be a net positive in the game. And 3rd, it's easier for Gordon to develop off the bench. He doesn't need anyone to pass him the ball.
Unless you want Tyrus to play less fundamentally, he needs players that will pass him the ball in good positions. Noc isn't going to do it. Joe Smith isn't going to do it. Duhon can't draw the defense to him when he drives so that doesn't help Thomas either.
I've been arguing for Thomas to start since my season review of Tyrus back on June 2nd.
http://www.blogabull.com/story/2007/6/2/14428/57491
It's one of my favorite issues.
http://www.blogabull.com/story/2007/9/19/22344/5522
I've never really understood the reluctance to start Thomas. Because if the goal is for Thomas to play well and for the team as a whole to play well then it's pretty clear he should play with the starters. And with Tyrus looking like he's actually going to start, i just don't understand the reluctance. This is one issue that tends to agitate me.
by Scotter on Oct 17, 2007 9:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Prospect
Personally, I think it's worth having Thomas out starting on the floor. He seems (I know, I'm making an uneducated observation) to be serious about improving and with our other starting four, we can afford to have somebody with rough edges out on the floor. Personally, I'm not sold on Thomas having a 15-foot J or becoming a low-post option anytime soon (I'm still feeling burned by all my lame hopes during the Curry/Chandler years). However, I don't know how important that is. We do not have a rock-solid option for starting at PF, so it would seem Thomas comprises the next best option.
by CookDing on Oct 18, 2007 7:51 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
examined all of the statistical evidence
One of the beauties about sports is that all the stats in the world can go right out the window when it comes to a team geling together, hitting overdrive and becoming an unstopable force out of what WAS shear mediocrity.
by Bluelou on Oct 17, 2007 7:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I still need to see a
But the Bulls play basketball. And probably even more important than a high concentration of fast-twitch muscles is a high concentration of "game sense." If you take out the few top players who obviously excelled in both (MJ, Kobe, Labron come to mind), you're still left with a lot of the greatest players who primarily excelled in "game sense"--players who constantly got their edge from winning the game within the game. Players like Magic Johnson, Dennis Rodman, Larry Bird, Charles Barkely...the list goes on and on. Or current players like Nash and Kidd. Or on the Bulls, I'd say Ben Wallace and Deng, and I see some of it in Noah already.
What I'm saying is I'm not stuck on keeping Tyrus. I think it's much more likely he doesn't get a lot better than he is now than it is he develops into a Kobe-style transcendent start.
by alec on Oct 17, 2007 1:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think characterizing Tyrus ability as being
by philosoball on Oct 17, 2007 1:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He does have good timing
by alec on Oct 17, 2007 1:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
DC perspective
by Old Skool Sloan on Oct 17, 2007 12:00 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
theres a difference
I believe arenas meant it he didt want to play us because we're good and we beat you up which to arenas, or even the uninformed person, means that we're slow....
I believe the cavalier characterization was a mistake
Honestly; how many teams would want to play the suns 82 games a yea?
The anouncers are correct that you dont wnat to play us because we wear you out, and arenas is smart enough to know this, but evidently his ghostwriter isnt
by milesgmsu on Oct 17, 2007 12:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
that was stated really shittily
Teams may want to avoid you because you're good, they beat you up, or both.
We're both. Duh
It's easy to connotate, however, that playing defense leads to a slower pace - that may be the reason arenas was mistaken about the speed of CLE vs CHI basketball
The announcers, however, were correct in that you don't want to play us given our defense, our tenacity, our ball movement, and our depth.
You could even make a strong argument for it in the playoffs last year. Miami got progressivley worse as the series drove on, and after game 3 when we did begin to play our game in the DET series, DET was never the same. Even game 6 the reason DET won was because we couldn't hit a shot, not because of any amazing DET play (remember PJ was our high scorer at the half...nay our only scorer). Games 1 and 2 in the DET CLE series were up int he air, and the next 4 we're all CLE's
by milesgmsu on Oct 17, 2007 12:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I got you
by Old Skool Sloan on Oct 17, 2007 1:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
There are actually players on that board
Please tell me that we aren't that bad on this site.
by rexisourqb on Oct 17, 2007 12:54 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Of course we aren't!
by wjb1492 on Oct 17, 2007 6:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
nightly vigils for the return of Ben Gordon
But before you flame me for this, please understand that I LOVE BG, and don't want to see him go ANYWHERE.
It's just that he's among a surplus of guards on the team. And like I said yesterday - he's a great asset and could bring just as strong of a talent at a different position in a trade at just the right time in the season...
Perhaps for a monster down low player, like the much talked about and never happened trade for Pau Gasol last season....
All I am saying is that it is nice to finally have this luxury of having so much depth on the team.
And since Da Bulls have been playing so well even without BG out there, is simply reveals several possibilities.
And if they DID trade him in the end, they wouldn't just be doing without him.....
They'd be getting a great trade to replace him with.
by Bluelou on Oct 17, 2007 12:55 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
PRESEASON
by hscs on Oct 17, 2007 1:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
surplus of guards
And with them using Deng and the 2 now (more and more), maybe a "surplus" would be the wrong word.
My point is simply that they have more options now and could make a move without hurting the backcourt - especially if they want more production down low - IF that's what they wanted to do.
by Bluelou on Oct 17, 2007 1:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
trade scenarios aside
by hscs on Oct 17, 2007 1:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think
by Option27 on Oct 17, 2007 1:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would describe it as just about right.
by Scotter on Oct 17, 2007 1:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wouldn't you much rather have
Just to make it perfect
by Option27 on Oct 17, 2007 1:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd keep Thabo on the wings
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Oct 17, 2007 2:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
In my perfect world
by Option27 on Oct 17, 2007 2:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And push Duhon entirely out of the rotation?
by Scotter on Oct 17, 2007 2:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Kobe's 29
by alec on Oct 17, 2007 2:18 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I wonder who
http://blogs.chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/fullcourtpress/
by sue369 on Oct 17, 2007 5:10 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
its speculation
One of those things like the "BG is sitting out because a trade is happening" that get blown out of proportion by a small group of fans.
by KT on Oct 17, 2007 6:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
its speculation
EVERYTHING is speculatory at this point and we all know how pro sports go....a trade may or may not happen at any given point in time....
Or not...
by Bluelou on Oct 17, 2007 7:06 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

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