That other newcomer

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Oct 14, 2007 11:46 PM CDT in News Comment 48 comments

It's only been two preseason games, but we haven't seen Joe Smith yet as a Bull. He's barely practiced, for that matter.

And while he acknowledges there's no need to rush players back before the season starts, nobody hates missing practice more than Skiles:

Particularly in Joe Smith's case as a new player on the team, at some point he's going to have to get in the mix a little bit. He's a little bit different; he wants to get a couple of full practices in before he plays in a game, I certainly don't blame him for that. But any new player, no matter who it is ... we move the ball and try to execute as a team. So you just hope that he can, whenever it is he's given the green light, he can get acclimated playing with the guys.

I don't see it as much of Skiles holding ill will towards the injured, it's just that he doesn't have time for them. In the media scrum he'll brush off questions about injured players, as if they're not a part of the team unless they're available.

And in terms of acclimating, the slow starts that Skiles' Bulls teams have encountered have come hand-in-hand with quotes about getting new players up to speed and the complicated system (or at least the effort needed to execute it) on both ends.

This year is supposed to be different, with nearly every single core player back. If the Bulls want to get a top seed they can't have yet another slow start (an easier-than-usual circus trip helps too), and there should be little time spent on getting the few new guys acclimated.

I had figured that Joe Smith had the inside track to earn the starting spot for opening night. But maybe Tyrus Thomas' Bulls experience trumps general NBA experience. He had a nice game on Friday too.

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While I consider Joe Smith's injury

to be a positive development in my quest to send him to the bench. Sefolosha's injury is a bit frustrating. With Gordon hurt, it would have been a great opportunity for Sefolosha to start at SG. Especially since I really want Sefolosha to play with Hinrich. Getting them that time on the floor together would have made another positive out of an injury.

by Scotter on Oct 15, 2007 12:25 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

the worst part

is that with Thabo and Gordon out, Skiles is forced to try out this 'luol at the 2' idea to the point where now it's expected to continue for substantial minutes during the season, wheras I still see it as just a byproduct of injuries.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Oct 15, 2007 9:29 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I thought Kobe would play the 2

by hscs on Oct 15, 2007 9:34 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Thabo at the 2

I wouldn't get your hopes up about seeing Thabo at the 2. One thing that's absolutely clear is that if the Bulls thought Thabo were the answer at SG they wouldn't be experimenting with Deng there. What's the intent of Deng at 2? It's to get him on the court with BG. You can be certain it's not an attempt to find more time for Thabo. (It may also be an attempt to get Noah and TT out there at the same time, but that's another story.) If Deng is posting up at SG, Gordon can't be doubled by two guards on the perimeter. Against Dallas, Skiles brought in Nocioni to space the floor, so you can see his thinking.

I anticipate one of the big changes we're going to see from the Bulls this year is a shift in their scoring percentage--from perimeter to post. With Deng, a stronger TT, Noah, (and maybe even Gray, from what we're seen in the preseason), the Bulls will have some players capable of scoring down there.

The problem last year was not Heinrich's inability to make an entry pass. The problem was that Heinrich never drew a double team, so there was never an opening down low. With BG at the point, the other team will be forced to double him, opening up a scoring opportunity in the post. And though Ben is not your classic drive-and-kick point guard, he's always been good at the entry pass.

by alec on Oct 15, 2007 9:41 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Where do you get the idea

that BG can make a better entry pass than Hinrich? And when does BG ever get double teamed?

Nocioni-Khryapa in '08

by bullshooter on Oct 15, 2007 10:27 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

entry pass

If you're only talking about the preseason so far, I can see your point. Why double team Gordon when he's in street clothes on the bench? But if you think back to last year, every time the ball even came near him, the other team started setting up to double him. Why wouldn't they? From their perspective this made perfect sense. Gordon is/was by far the Bulls' best scorer. Every team in the league doubles the other team's leading scorer.

As to Heinrich.... What's Heinrich's biggest liability? Every commentator, every writer mentions it. He tends to get caught standing around, pounding the ball. I don't imagine that it's because he thinks it's the right thing to do. The reason is that everyone he'd like to pass to is covered. Why? Because nobody ever leaves their man to come and double Kirk.

Actually, I would probably agree with you that Kirk makes a better entry pass than BG. The problem is he's got to be SO MUCH better than Ben, because he's got to make a perfect pass to get it through the defense. Ergo, he stands around, pounding the ball, waiting for a big enough opening to squeeze a perfect pass into.

by alec on Oct 15, 2007 10:46 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

except for one thing

they run a motion offense, which is sort of antithetical to standing and pounding the ball. I think you need to watch a few more games.

Nocioni-Khryapa in '08

by bullshooter on Oct 15, 2007 11:10 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

au contrere,

mon ami.

Perhaps you might benefit from turning the sound up...and listening to what some other observers have to say. It's easy to fall in love and see only what one wants to see, but at the same time, it's healthy to open oneself up to reality.

by alec on Oct 15, 2007 11:28 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I hope you don't mean literally

I seem to lose 'basketball IQ' when listening to Dore/Kerr/King/Wayne/Norm, etc...

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Oct 15, 2007 11:30 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

neutral announcers

Yes, of course, when possible it's more instructive to listen to neutral announcers. But even the Bull's home announcers were pretty hard on Kirk's game last year. They all made excuses for him (tired, too much summer ball), but they didn't completely let him off the hook.

by alec on Oct 15, 2007 11:42 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think you spent too much time

listening to the announcers.

Nocioni-Khryapa in '08

by bullshooter on Oct 16, 2007 9:15 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

also

he might want to learn to spell Hinrich... especially when its posted all over these pages.

by peterbredenberg on Oct 15, 2007 7:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

note the times

For crissake
learn how to spell his name correctly. It's Hinrich.

Racecar spelled backwards is racecar.

by sue369 on Mon Oct 15, 2007 at 12:55:48 PM EDT
[ Parent | Reply to This ]

sorry
I'm more than a bit dyslexic, I definitely depend too much on spellcheck.

by alec on Mon Oct 15, 2007 at 01:05:43 PM EDT
[ Parent | Reply to This ]

by alec on Oct 15, 2007 9:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

HInrich's career USG-r

is pretty much the same as Billups, Nash, and Kidd. Seems like the right rate of pounding by comparison.

by hscs on Oct 15, 2007 11:13 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Heinrich

I'm not down on Heinrich. Skiles is just attempting to expand his match-up possibilities. I hope Heinrich has a better year this year than last year. He looks bigger, stronger. But clearly, Skiles' first message at training camp (putting BG at the point with Deng at SG) had to have been directed at and felt by Kirk.

by alec on Oct 15, 2007 11:36 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

whatever you're trying to convey

it's misplaced criticism. The offense doesn't suck because Hinrich dribbles too much (he doesn't), and Deng playing guard is an experiment that's only getting extended exposure because of bad luck.

by hscs on Oct 15, 2007 11:52 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

The offense doesn't suck.

Generally, the Bulls scored plenty last year. But there are certain match-ups that when they're not going the Bulls way they must find a way around. Detroit in the play-offs was one of those. When the Bulls began struggling, they didn't have anything else to go to. When they struggled, one of the reasons was that Hinrich had nowhere to go with the ball, so he got caught standing around with it.

Do I believe Detroit is a better team than the Bulls? No. I think the Bulls lost to Detroit last year mainly for two reasons. One, Tayshaun Prince had his best sustained run since his NCAA days. (He came back to earth hard against Cleveland.) And two, I think the Bulls were out-coached. I think the Pistons were laying for them, and knew all along what they were going to do to the Bulls come the play-offs.

by alec on Oct 15, 2007 12:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

clearing up the static

The Bulls were 20th in offensive efficiency last season. That's sucky. The defense was #1 in efficiency, but the point differential can improve. The Spurs were 5th in offense and 2nd in defense; a team can excel at both ends.

That 74% of Hinrich's shot attempts were in the first 15 seconds of a possession leads me to believe "standing around" with the ball isn't an issue.

by hscs on Oct 15, 2007 1:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

So your remedy for that

is put the ball in BG's hands?

Nocioni-Khryapa in '08

by bullshooter on Oct 15, 2007 1:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

For crissake

learn how to spell his name correctly. It's Hinrich.

Racecar spelled backwards is racecar.

by sue369 on Oct 15, 2007 11:55 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

sorry

I'm more than a bit dyslexic, I definitely depend too much on spellcheck.

by alec on Oct 15, 2007 12:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I dissagree, I think it was a move against Duhon

by joemoses on Oct 15, 2007 1:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

or maybe

a move FOR Nocioni, aka, the eight-million-dollar-man.
Matt, don't go catatonic

"...Keeping 'SlowHand' alive since aught-five"

by CookDing on Oct 15, 2007 1:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Noc had a shit game Friday

I know that the Bulls preach help,help,help on defense, but Nocioni always seems to over-help...especially eager to step in and try to get a flop call and leaving his guy open.

Also, I don't like the Deng as a guard lineup not just for reasons of having Deng at the 2, but having Noc at the 3. Them some slow wings. But I acknowledge it's mostly a byproduct of the injuries.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Oct 15, 2007 1:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

And I am

so freaking sick of him whinning on every call made on him. It's way past old.

Racecar spelled backwards is racecar.

by sue369 on Oct 15, 2007 2:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'm not

justifying it, I'm just noticing it. If Deng goes to the two (and it would be likely be a mistake if such events were not rare), it would seem to me that Noce would be the first off the pine. We can argue stats, potential, approach.. ...or anything else. All I see is that Skiles seems to have a slight man-crush on Noce and he just signed on for five more years of toughness, effort and winning background.

"...Keeping 'SlowHand' alive since aught-five"

by CookDing on Oct 15, 2007 2:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

well Deng will never START at the two

it's only in spot lineups, not the starting lineup.

So who's coming off the bench that would facilitate moving Deng to two in the first place? Noc.

So basically it's a big scheme to jerk around your best player to get more time for Noc, which...whatever.

It can also be looked at as keeping the lineup potent when Gordon's out of the game, which makes it more palatable.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Oct 15, 2007 2:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Or it's to

see how well BG can play pg and if he can it will add value in trading BG.

Racecar spelled backwards is racecar.

by sue369 on Oct 15, 2007 1:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Thabo/Deng

This makes me so excited about the team. Deng has looked quite reasonable in the post. He has gone in strong, received the ball well and passed decently out of the post. I didn't think about it but you are correct, with BG as a shooter out there the defense will be in trouble. I also agree that with Deng, Noah, Grey and a stronger TT (along with Smith, who claims he can play some post) we will have a much, much less predictable and frustrating offensive game.

As for Thabo, I thing people around this blog are greatly underestimating this kid. Do you remember what he did defensively to Redd, Kobe and Pierce. For a rookie, he was sensational. Put him on the court with Ben Wallace, Hinrich, Noah, and Deng and you have a VERY good defensive and rebounding team. I trust that like Pippin, he will get his points driving to the hoop strong. Shooting will come later. A lot of his downside last year was rookie nervesnous.

by joemoses on Oct 15, 2007 10:31 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I agree with you

about Thabo. He's a very good defender. However, Skiles is obsessed with match-ups (as is every coach who doesn't have a Shaq or Yao on the floor). And especially, he's obsessed with matching up against the teams that beat the Bulls the previous year. The whole point of the Ben Wallace acquisition was to help the Bulls get past Shaq in his final few years in the league.

The Bulls' biggest problem against Detroit was in generating enough offense. My guess is that a big part of putting Deng at SG is to better match up against Billups, who was too big and strong for BG, and was able to deny him the ball. If Detroit keeps Billups on BG, then Deng can bring Prince down into traffic where he'll be too weak to be effective.

Skiles is very shrewd, and I think he'll have a very effective strategy against Detroit this year.

by alec on Oct 15, 2007 11:11 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Deng v. Prince

is the last matchup I'd expect to favor Deng's not quite real post offense.

by hscs on Oct 15, 2007 11:16 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

BG is a bad matchup

against either Billups or Hamilton.

Nocioni-Khryapa in '08

by bullshooter on Oct 15, 2007 11:19 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

and the bulls biggest problem

against detroit wasn't generating enough offense, it was getting enough offensive talent on the floor. The Bulls were playing 3 on 5 for most of that series with Wallace and PJ bringing almost nothing offensively.

Nocioni-Khryapa in '08

by bullshooter on Oct 15, 2007 11:28 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

agreed

Absolutely. I completely agree with you.

by alec on Oct 15, 2007 11:37 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

exactly

What does this mean for captain kirk and his playing time?

by Blacknight23 on Oct 15, 2007 9:56 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

In the article

in today's Sun Times about Lu playing the 2 already in the first two games they also talk about him and his extension. It says according to a source close to the situtation that it appears more likely that a deal will get done with Lu than with Gordon. Maybe Gordon isn't in the long term picture.

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/basketball/bulls/603235,CST-SPT-bull15.article

Racecar spelled backwards is racecar.

by sue369 on Oct 15, 2007 10:02 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

meh

seems like some pot stirring. if the extensions are getting signed this year, it probably won't be until the deadline at the end of the month. it's tough to believe the rumors when nothing is going to happen 'til then, and Reinsdorf runs a tight ship.

by hscs on Oct 15, 2007 10:29 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

not sign BG?

Sue, I don't think it says anything about the Bulls' desire to sign or not sign Gordon. Although Deng may be the Bulls' best player, a strong case can be made that Gordon is the player they can least afford to lose.

Every team that doesn't have a BG-type player is dying to find one. BG, by himself, can balance your whole team's presence, in any set.

by alec on Oct 15, 2007 10:20 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Well alec

I guess we will have to wait and see. That's not the first time we've read that in the last few weeks. Whether BG gets signed depends on if BG and Pax both have the same value of BG's worth.

Racecar spelled backwards is racecar.

by sue369 on Oct 15, 2007 11:34 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I would agree here

Although I really enjoy the off-the-bench "pop" that BG brings, I also know that Pax has put together what appears, at this point, to be a fairly deep and balanced group.

And depending on who they would get for BG, and the emergence / maturing of the team now, I would think BG could be a great trade - for the right player - at the right time.

That doesn't mean I wanna see him go...

I'm just sayin'....

Noce....is he still HERE?

by Bluelou on Oct 15, 2007 1:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

BAB

made the Monday's Blinks. Rob also mentions Matt's man Sam.

http://my.nba.com/forum.jspa?forumID=300012410&start=0

Racecar spelled backwards is racecar.

by sue369 on Oct 15, 2007 1:13 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

the power of blogging

KC reports that Smith will play Tuesday.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Oct 15, 2007 1:44 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

how long

until the "BG is being held out because he has been traded" rumors get going?...

Nocioni-Khryapa in '08

by bullshooter on Oct 15, 2007 1:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

they've already began

I question the source though.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Oct 15, 2007 2:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah, BG is being held out

for the trade. And Tyrus is being "showcased" for the same trade. Or so I read somewhere (probably somewhere here but I have no link).

Riding the Noah bus since March 2006

by preverbal on Oct 16, 2007 10:10 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Wouldn't you think

Teams would wanna showcase their talent to make better trades? Maybe if they were trying to hide overrated talent or something but it's not like Gordon is a joke

by Option27 on Oct 16, 2007 10:17 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Exactly.

Ben says his ankle is fine to walk on but it hurts when he is playing (runnubg, turning quickly, etc.). He said he has to listen to his body. I'd rather have a healthy Ben for the season opener than see him try and play injured right now.

Racecar spelled backwards is racecar.

by sue369 on Oct 16, 2007 10:53 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

How often do players

get held out because of an upcoming trade? Did we stop playing Jalen Rose before we traded him to Toronto (and they still took him)?

Iverson was sent home so as not to be a desruptive source. But all those players invovled in the big Pacers/Golden State trade were playing last year up until the trade, weren't they?

by KT on Oct 15, 2007 10:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs