Nocioni may need the Orlando Woolridge/Ricky Davis treatment

by Paxson Jackson on Jan 16, 2007 10:07 PM CST Comment 66 comments

[From the Diaries. My thoughts on this are in the comments. -Matt]

I hate to be so bold to lead into this diary with a cliche like "addition by subtraction," but it would appear it's too late now. I've been whining about Nocioni not being a good fit at power forward because he's undersized, doesn't rebound well enough for the position, and doesn't block any shots. Those problems were kinda solved with his removal from the starting lineup. Replaced by Tyrus Thomas, and presumably PJ Brown when Ben Wallace is healthy, Nocioni figures to be a scorer and PED off the bench. This would be great for most teams, but most teams don't have a competent veteran like Peej, and a rookie forward who could be a monster come playoff time if given enough experience during the regular season. The Bulls also have Sweetney, Veek-tor Ha-ra-pa, and Malik Allen who are more than the average band of rogues at the end of an NBA bench.

I've mentioned usage rate (USG-r) before, which is the number of possessions a player uses per 40 minutes. Nocioni's 22.0 USG-r is higher than every Bull but Ben Gordon. I don't think a team with Hinrich, Deng, and Gordon should be sacrificing the ball (so much) to the wild and turnover prone Nocioni.

Maybe it's time to trade Nocioni for a slug to sit at the end of the bench, or seriously consider not picking up his contract at the end of the season. Tyrus Thomas is going to have to play at some point, and the Bulls are committed to Ben Wallace who will need to play with a defender and rebounder to be effective as he declines over the course of his contract. The recent defensive focus on turnovers doesn't bode well for Nocioni either. Even though the flops are nice, they don't create transition oppurtunities.

Tyrus isn't ready now, but Nocioni is stunting his growth, taking shots away from better offensive players, and taking minutes from better suited power forwards. It's possible the Bulls could actually gain something without him.

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Trade Noc and Old Man Winter

We need something pretty to help us come playoffs.

"all the girls loved BJ." -sue369

by Colossus on Jan 16, 2007 11:03 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

please no

I don't want to go (says noc) and skiles agrees. This guy is a valuable asset off the bench and epitomizes the current squad.
The rooks and backups are not as good as you suppose and Noc provides the valuable third scorer when Hinrich is inevitably in a slump.
At this point in time, we need to keep him (and I'm not just saying this because of my favorability toward his style of play and that fact that my profile name is named after him), but because it is in the best interest of the team at this current time.

by NocChapu on Jan 16, 2007 11:12 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

noc is good

as offense, and a charge taker, and a crowd favourite...furthermore he and deng are best freinds , and I realize this may be a stretch, but hopefully resinging noch can mean saving some cash on deng (or vice versa)

by milesgmsu on Jan 17, 2007 9:08 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

BFF

come on, that's beyond a stretch.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 17, 2007 10:37 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I agree

I can't see how it would save cash. It seems like the only thing that would save cash would be hometown discounts, even small ones. If Deng ends up with a deal similar to Hinrichs, I'll be happy because it would be an absolute steal.

I'm a little worried about the off season though. Sure, Deng and Gordon still have a year left, but look how long it took Hinrich. Yes, Reinsdorf said he'd be willing to pay a luxury tax if it meant keeping the core and/or staying contenders, but to what extent?

I just googled and found this and while it isn't anything worth putting in stone, I can only wonder how much more he can spend and handle in luxury tax before backpedaling. Keep in mind that's from the 04-05 season, so it's very likely that it increased last year, and this year, as a result of us not sucking and increasing ticket/merchandise sales.

"all the girls loved BJ." -sue369

by Colossus on Jan 17, 2007 10:47 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

two things

it's not jsut us not sucking, biut think about the white sox too
Im not saying we can resign noch and save 10M because of deng or vice versa, but we might be able to get the hometown discount at a larger rate because of his closeness with deng....keep in mind that they are best friends and go to the mall to each other, and when noch first came here, deng was the only one that opended up to him (or vice versa)...hell they lived (maybe still do) next to each other

by milesgmsu on Jan 17, 2007 4:35 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

All good points, PaxJax

...and you didn't even mention that he doesn't box out (watch the next game - there are a ton of offensive boards given up because he attacks the rebound instead of boxing out his man). His frivolous turnovers just kill me. They appear to kill him as well, so I guess that's something. And I agree that more minutes for Tyrus is a good thing. KC's latest article mentions some comments from Skiles about Tyrus' development, and it appears that he won't really get there this season. Not that we expected it, but I'm guessing he won't see many minutes in the playoffs unless we get the right matchup.

Anyway, while I agree with you, I don't think we should overlook the positives, many of which don't come out in the statistics. Chapu is quite frustrating against certain scorers in the NBA. He can hit the open three, and seems to get those open looks more often than anyone else on the team (because he's playing out of position at the 4? Maybe, but he's hitting them nonetheless). Also, while drawing charges does not lead to fast breaks, it does make an offense think twice about driving - akin to what a weakside shot-blocker can do - and Andres is one of the best in the NBA at setting up in front of that little circle.

To sum up, yes, I think he's better coming off the bench, but he's also one of our four scorers. He's gotta get enough minutes. If you can trade him before the deadline for something really good, that's great, but giving him minutes will only make that something "prettier".

As far as whether we give him a new contract, it's way too early to determine that, so let's not sweat it now. The team won't be extending him mid-season (I don't even think they can if they wanted to?).

Deng 4 MVP, 2008!

by corey williams corey benjamin on Jan 16, 2007 11:36 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

re: Nocioni's contract

I'm not concerned about how much he's going to cost. I don't want to see him back next season.

by Paxson Jackson on Jan 17, 2007 10:12 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

well

he does shoot a good %, especially from 3 which is helpful in Bulls motion offense

I agree Noc could cut down on turnovers and his rebounding would be okay if he was more SF then PF, which off bench he should be

by NY Chicago Fan on Jan 17, 2007 10:31 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

You need Noce during the playoffs.

He is a Beast when it counts. We would have been swept both of the past 2 seasons without him. Move him back to the 3. Strat Tyrus. But if you do you have no scoring outside of Gordon and Deng's 22 a night.

by JoJoEnglish94bulls4ever on Jan 16, 2007 11:50 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

start

by JoJoEnglish94bulls4ever on Jan 16, 2007 11:51 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Corey

Really said it the best. Noch is a frantic player, i hate when he dribbles the ball because it feels like an automatic turnover, but hes aggressive, fearless, and confident, and that really gives our team an edge both on offense and defense. Dont give him up unless were getting garnett or someone equivilant.

im trying hard to become the next kirk hinrich, therefore im doing nothing more than being the next chris duhon.

by piccolomair on Jan 17, 2007 3:05 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

i dont mind his dribbling

into the post

by milesgmsu on Jan 17, 2007 9:09 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I nearly-buy this whole premise

I agree that Noc is getting too many minutes and uses too many posessions.

But unless he's a part of 'the big trade' I don't want him moved just to free up time for the rest of the frontcourt scrum. He's flawed but it's not like the roster is overflowing with offense and bigs, so having him gunning off the bench is a nice luxury. And if he's 'just Noc' as he always says, maybe they can get him not to dominate the ball so much (this year's usage rate is a few points above his career norms).

And a lot of this is presuming that Tyrus is close to being ready and should get many more minutes to get him there this year. Which I still don't believe (I think he's so far away he'll be the same type of player all season, which isn't that terrible), but basketball mind-gods can disagree on that one.

But if a 'the big trade' doesn't happen, resigning Noc in the offseason shouldn't be a foregone conclusion. But while Thomas and Veektor are signed through next year, PJ and Sweets aren't, so there likely will still be a place for him.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 17, 2007 11:03 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

Funny

that links all the way back to the epic Hinrich/CP "no you're stupid" debate.

by bullshooter on Jan 17, 2007 11:27 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Noc is a luxury

He should be backing up Deng ideally, so that Deng doesn't have to play 40+ min a night. That's sort of related to the problem of having a young team. The only guy on our squad who seems to be comfortable with their role is Griffin, because he knows he needs to be ready to play five minutes or 25. Duhon should be backing up Hinrich for 15 min/night, Sefo for Gordon, Noc for Deng, Tyrus/Khryapa for PJ/Wallace. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem like guys can be effective in limited minutes or Skiles doesn't want to play it this way.

As for next year, if Noc comes back for around the midlevel exception, I think he should be signed. He is an energy guy who can hit shots and seems to rise to the occaision. But I don't think he should start at 4 anymore, unless forced to by injuries.

This is a team going through growing stages. The better Noc plays, the more it forces Tyrus to know what he should be doing out on the floor in order for Tyrus to take Noc's minutes. Ultimately, it's Skiles job both to make sure Tyrus is progressing, and to recognize it's time get Tyrus on the court. Also, it's been two games and I am sure Tyrus will have a few off games before they give him the ROY... so let's not dump Noc just yet.

by bullshooter on Jan 17, 2007 11:06 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

Shakes head..

I can't understand why there are so many chapu haters on this site. The guy has improved at an incredible rate. When he first came into the league, each time he touched the ball, Bulls fans world-wide held their collective breath and closed their eyes. But that is just my point, that is the Noc of old, not the present day Noc that people are talking about here. He has cut his dribble drives way down and when he does drive now, he quite often finishes and or gets fouled. We need to attack the basket. How often do we talk about not settling for outside shots?

He is in control these days. He is also a great team player and has an unmatched attitude. Do I think his natural position is SF? Yes. All the more reason to be impressed with the guy.

I can't beleive a diary like this (and numerous support posts) came out at a time like this. The guy VOLUNTEERED to move to the bench and play a bench role on this team. In today's league, do you know how special this is?!?!? He cares about the team first and himself second. Not many can claim that.

I beleive he should and still can get 25 minutes plus off the bench with Deng still getting 35 or so. When Skiles goes small, as he likes to often, then Deng and Noc will play side by side.

To actually suggest that we dump him is 100% laughable. I'm sorry to get so emotional, here but I absolutely can not believe that bulls fans are ready to turn their back on Chapu. Not in my most desperate moment would I "dump" Andres Nocioni.. Come on! wow.

The red and white

by Scott 9 on Jan 17, 2007 1:13 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Don't cry dude

I don't know how special volunteering to sit on the bench is. I doubt Scott Skiles was looking for permission to start someone else, and I don't recall Nocioni specifically commenting on biting the bullet and taking a seat for the greater good. He isn't exactly attacking the basket or getting to the line with great success either. Check out this season and last. . His jumper has actually improved, and the closer to the basket scoring has regressed. Deng and Gordon both took big leaps from last season, Nocioni didn't. I'm not saying he's bad, just not essential, and possibly holding back the team.

by Paxson Jackson on Jan 17, 2007 1:41 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Nobody's crying...

Emotion doesn't equal tears, but disbelief. Holding the team back? I am still stuggling to see that. If anything, as it relates to your theory, Skiles is holding the team back. Noc is the perfect bench player. He can bring enery AND points off the bench, a great combination.

Last night.. case in point. We are not the type of team that can rely on the same guys every night. We need consistent shooters to pick up the slack when a Gordon or Deng (or Kirk) is not stepping up. Chapu is that guy.

The red and white

by Scott 9 on Jan 18, 2007 10:37 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

One game isn't "case in point"

And my point isn't about Nocioni playing well or playing poorly (Orlando Woolridge? Ricky Davis? Anybody?). It's about making room for players who could possibly help the Bulls more than the grit-ustley Nocioni. It's an issue that the Bulls' front office has to evaluate this season, and to discount it because you didn't keep the receipt for your Nocioni jersey is "100% laughable."

by Paxson Jackson on Jan 18, 2007 11:17 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

no dump

I agree, no reason to dump Noc, he will be great man off bench.

If in offseason if there is large demand for Noc and the salary offers get out of hand, the Bulls could look to package him in trade, but I don't think anyone knows how much $s in free agency Noc will get offered at this point

Would be nice to replace Duhon with a defensive point guard (to only backup Hinrich) that can actually shoot and wants to shoot the open 3, but I know that might be hard to find at Duhon's price, suspect it could be target with 2nd round picks this year or next

by NY Chicago Fan on Jan 17, 2007 1:41 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I agree

Noc isn't a RFA though, right? We aren't able to match any offers and the only way we could hope to get a sign and trade would be because the other team being over the cap and not able to offer more than the MLE.

If Noc isn't going to be a Bull next year, he'll be traded before the deadline rather than in the off season.

Trading Duhon would be sweet. Too bad a package of Noc, Duhon, Brown, and Lard Ass wouldn't get enough to fix our holes :(

"all the girls loved BJ." -sue369

by Colossus on Jan 17, 2007 3:24 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Nobody seems to know for sure

But I think the consensus (from an earlier discussion here and what I remember reading in the papers) is that Noc IS a restricted FA.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 17, 2007 3:44 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Good to know

"all the girls loved BJ." -sue369

by Colossus on Jan 17, 2007 4:30 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Noc is a Restricted Free Agent

Restticted Free Agents 2007:
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2654216

and for good measure: http://hoopshype.com/salaries/chicago.htm

by dcarioca on Jan 17, 2007 10:28 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

eh?

Anyone think a Brand reunion would be possible now that the Clippers are back to a sub .500 team? Maybe they'll go back to their low wages days and take a few expiring contracts and the bird rights (those do get traded with the player right?) to Noc?

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/traderesult?players=99~2456~2175~91&teams=12~12~12~4

but probably it would take something more like this

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/traderesult?players=91~99~2381~2456&teams=4~12~12~12

either way I'd do it to get a reliable low post guy again...

by micah on Jan 17, 2007 1:39 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

quick answer

"Anyone think a Brand reunion would be possible"

No.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 17, 2007 2:59 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Can't agree.

While I would love to see Tyrus get more playing time, I alos have to be realistic and admit that Boce has been absolutely stellar in the playoffs the last couple of years.

Chapu is one of the reasons I show up for games. I love his hustle, energy, and toughness.

by 1958ChiTown on Jan 17, 2007 2:44 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

'Being realistic'

should have more to do with something tangible a player has to offer, and doesn't include dubious regular season/playoff splits.

by Paxson Jackson on Jan 17, 2007 4:51 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Nocioni

I'm starting to think that the Bulls fans don`t deserve Nocioni. He has less flaws than most of the Bulls players, his contract is a joke right now, and he is a great scoring/defending/rebounding SF. In fact he is one of the best SF of the league. It's not Chapu's problem if a guy named Deng can improve every game and become the star de Bulls so badly need.
Besides, they can play together for long stretches in a NBA heading towards fast paced games and tiny lineups.

by Chilai on Jan 17, 2007 6:09 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

nocioni

Is a solid three. I still dont understand why they dont try to move Deng to the four. He is taller and has a larger wingspan than nocioni. Deng as good as he is and for all the potential he shows isnt a good rebounder or at least isnt a better reboundedr than nocioni which is dissapointing.

Deng needs to hit the baords a little harder. The guy is probably now 6 10 and 230. Why isnt he a better rebounder than Noc. Why dont they plug him in there at power forward more often? Everyone does seem to be a little hard on nocioni, but the truth is he is extremely solid on all ends for a small forward. He sometimes needs to lay off a bit on the offensive end. He can defend multiple positions, shoot the jumper and make the occasional play. The team has size problems, but we need to stop blaming them on Nocioni.

by Sambossanova on Jan 17, 2007 6:34 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

because

why move the superior younger talent?

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 17, 2007 6:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Rebounding

isn't about how tall you are, it's about how big your ass is and how much you want the ball.

by bullshooter on Jan 17, 2007 10:08 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Because he's playing SF

He isn't in position to get as many rebounds. When he has a chance to box out, he's a strong rebounder. He currently has one of the 7th highest SF rebounding rate. And the only player ahead of him that plays 30 or more minutes is Caron Butler. When he plays PF his rebounds go up. He just isn't an out of area reobunder like Ben Wallace or Rodman.

by Scotter on Jan 18, 2007 1:00 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Don't Get it

Noc is a perfect fit for our team, not only in his play, but how he is the ideal kind of player for Paxson and Skiles. Why would you want to get rid of a moderately priced defensive player, who can provide some offense off the bench (where i agree he should come from) and can guard from the wing to the post? His play HAS gotten better every year: http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/players/hollinger?statsId=3882
He is currently the 19th rated PF in the league, while playing out of position at 6-7.
And seriously, did anyone see the playoffs last year?

by dcarioca on Jan 17, 2007 10:44 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

he's not out of position

he doesn't have a true position. I still say he's a better (backup) four.

and everybody needs to quit about the playoff stats. For one thing, it was 6 games. And against Antoine Walker. Not that it wasn't a great showing by him, but don't use those games to evaluate him.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 17, 2007 11:04 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

playoffs

You can't just dismiss what happens in the playoffs. Wouldn't you rather have someone answer the call and step up their game when it matters? Who cares that it was against walker!

by dcarioca on Jan 18, 2007 8:48 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

It doesn't take much stepping up,

to have a good game against Walker. Nocioni could have been napping. Don't all the games matter?

by Paxson Jackson on Jan 18, 2007 9:40 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

He's out of position

He played all his life at the 3, he is Argentina's starter at the SF position, and he really HATES to play the 4. But he has a different attitude than most NBA players, so he will just try to do what the coach says.
Btw, he had good games against the Wizards on the playoffs too.

by Chilai on Jan 18, 2007 1:05 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

ya know....

I had wanted him as a 4 based on his early play, but now that he is a decent 3-point shooter I suppose you can get away with him as an NBA 3. He'll probably always be one of the least-athletic SF in the league, but he'd be one of the better rebounders.

So anyway, Noc can have the 8-15 minutes that Deng's not at the 3, and some at the 4 when Skiles wants to go small.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 18, 2007 9:29 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

btw

he was better at the 4 (as opposed to the 3) last season:

http://www.82games.com/0506/05CHI10C.HTM

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 18, 2007 9:35 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

That's exactly what I would expect

but he has still for the last two seasons posted an average PER at small forward (This year he is above average). This just shows why he would be a good backup forward. He can perform well at either position.

by Scotter on Jan 18, 2007 1:05 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Also

Forgot to mention that he has a higher PER than everyone but Deng and Gordon. This whole trade noc thing is pretty blasphemous.

by dcarioca on Jan 18, 2007 8:52 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

So let's recap

November's conventional wisdom was "We've got to get rid of Gordon." December's question was "Is Skiles the right coach followed quickly by, "Hinrich shouldn't be untouchable, we should look at moving him." Now it's, "Noc is killing us, he's stifling the team." All of this with a background hum of, "I can't believe Skiles plays Duhon so much. Duhon is killing us, he needs to be dumped ASAP." Who's next? Deng is in a little slump the last three games...

Everybody needs to relax and enjoy the ride.

by bullshooter on Jan 18, 2007 8:57 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

In my own defense

This Nocioni diary isn't about a slump or bad play, it's about the bigger picture; bringing along a rookie who should not only be a better player than Nocioni, but produce in areas where the Bulls aren't getting much production. The diary isn't a zany, reactionary get-this-guy-out-of-town piece either. I'm one of the few who would never write, "Noc is killing us."

by Paxson Jackson on Jan 18, 2007 9:34 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

If it's about the rookies

Then you get rid of...or limit Brown's minutes for Ty2, and limit du for thabs. All the while bringing up noc off the Bench behind Deng. Thoughts?

by dcarioca on Jan 18, 2007 9:45 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

please never call him thabs...

i get this horrible image of barbara streisand and thabo having a kid....(shakes uncontrollably)

by milesgmsu on Jan 18, 2007 10:19 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

how bout with a "Z" ?

by dcarioca on Jan 18, 2007 10:27 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

yeesh,

I kinda already laid out my argument in the diary post, and it isn't all about the rookies. My response to bullshooter was meant to summarize the main point, not the whole thing. To address the P.J. Brown question, I'd like to see more of him.

by Paxson Jackson on Jan 18, 2007 10:21 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

To be fair

I wasn't saying you said that Noc was killing us either. Just trying to sum up the overall undercurrent of unwarranted exasperation that sweeps through this site every few weeks. You're points were solid and I agree with them. I'd even go so far as to say that with Khryapa's play, Noc is our most expendable piece. Not that I'd look to trade him, but I'd trade him before Deng, Gordon, Hinrich or Tyrus.

by bullshooter on Jan 18, 2007 11:28 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I like Khryapa

but if Noc's turnover problems are what make him expendable then Khryapa is worse without the benefit of high % shooting.

by Scotter on Jan 18, 2007 1:08 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Nocioni

has limitations that go beyond turning the ball over. Many of them have been addressed here. Veektor this season, and for his career, turns the ball over less than Nocioni.

by Paxson Jackson on Jan 18, 2007 1:27 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Based on what?

Per game avg? If you look at turnover rates, Noc has performed way better than Khryapa. Khryapa had turnover rates of 16.5 and 14.9 during his two years in Portland. Noc posted a 14.1 his rookie year, but has improved his then with marks of 10.2 and 11.6. He certainly doesn't pass the ball, but complaining about his usage rate doesn't make alot sense when he is the Bulls most effective scorer. He has both the highest effective FG% (55%) and highest TS% (59%) on the Bulls. I'm not on Noc lover, but the numbers do not support the argument.

by Scotter on Jan 18, 2007 2:13 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I just looked at the per 40's

on Nocioni and Ha-ra-pa's turnover numbers, but it is slightly worth noting Veektor has a better TO-r than Nocioni this season. It isn't worth it to debate whether or not Nocioni is better than Veektor, because Nocioni is without a doubt the better player.

As far as the "most effective scorer" goes, I'd like to see Noc not hog the ball so much and give to guys that get to the line and pass. Am I alone on the Orlando Woolridge/Ricky Davis reference?

by Paxson Jackson on Jan 18, 2007 2:40 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I think you might be

I don't feel like Noc hogs the ball. He's always looking for Deng when cuts into the paint and Noc usually shoots quickly when he is of a mind to shoot. And when he does put the ball on the floor, he generally takes it hard to the hole.

I agree that he is taking valuable minutes and learning opportunities from Tyrus, but Tyrus hasn't shown me that he is completely locked in yet, either. He's also taking minutes from Khryapa, who to me is a younger version of Noc. But I feel like Noc has earned most of the minutes he gets and the team benefits from him being out there.

by bullshooter on Jan 19, 2007 2:05 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

The stats and his play this year

certainly indicate Nocioni is looking to score more, shoot more jumpers than drive, and pass less. I think he benefits the team too, the whole idea is the bench and Tyrus Thomas would better fill the power forward role, and Deng, Gordon, and Hinrich could score more without Nocioni. There is a possibility of team improvement without the guy.

by Paxson Jackson on Jan 19, 2007 3:34 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I'm still...

struggling to see that. You have said nothing that has lead me to believe anything near this. For all the reasons stated previously.. Chapu is a guy you hang on to. period

The red and white

by Scott 9 on Jan 19, 2007 4:05 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Period?

I prefer them in dot form, thanks. Nocioni is scoring more this year and I already posted links to 82games.com, and the magical Knickerblogger stats page citing his increased usage rate, and the fact that his jumpers are up and drives are down. It's not my fault if you didn't look at them. Perhaps you would struggle less if you actually looked at the stats? It's tangible evidence, not mythical grit.

by Paxson Jackson on Jan 19, 2007 6:04 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

And that's not to say you have

to come to the same conclusion as me, saying you don't believe the facts is pretty unreasonable.

by Paxson Jackson on Jan 20, 2007 8:25 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Don't forget

Veektor actually passes the ball to people, Nocioni hasn't figured that part of basketball out yet.

by Paxson Jackson on Jan 19, 2007 3:48 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Frontcourt minutes

Last night:

Wallace - 31
Brown - 13
Deng - 31

Nocioni - 27
Thomas - 18
Khrappy - 4
Sweets - 3
Allen - DNP

This seems more-or-less adequate. Deng will be closer to 40 minutes most nights but he got in early foul trouble. I'm ok with Wallace getting less time, just say they're 'saving' him for the playoffs.

A lot of the lower-bench players' minutes will depend on matchups, but I'm starting to think Thomas should be getting around 15 guaranteed minutes.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 18, 2007 10:27 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Definitely agree.

by dcarioca on Jan 18, 2007 10:29 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

sweetney

Id like to see hi get more minutes and utilized in the low post in the right situations. Espescially when the outside shots arent falling. OFfensively, I rather have sweets in there than brown or wallace and maybe even thomas .

by Sambossanova on Jan 18, 2007 12:09 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

In the first half I thought Skiles found

a solid nine player rotation. Thabo, Noc, Tyrus, and Sweetney as the bench players. Then in the second half he went to his security blanket, Duhon. I liked those nine players as the rotation.

by Scotter on Jan 18, 2007 1:11 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

RIGHT ON ^^^^

The red and white

by Scott 9 on Jan 18, 2007 10:42 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

TT is going to be HUGE

He's just tailor made for the upcoming NBA, and I think that the Deng/TT/Nocioni combo getting all the minutes at the forwards positions for the years to come are a great bet to contend a championship. Sweets isn't the response to inside scoring and there aren´t that many dominant low post presences PJ can guard, so just forget them. At rare ocasions they are useful, but except for Dallas, all the elite teams that go deep in the playoffs have 8 or 9 players rotations.
Btw, we have to thank Webber for making those Pistons worse, and Mike Brown for being so inept. GO BULLS TO THE FINALS!

by Chilai on Jan 18, 2007 2:00 PM CST reply actions 0 recs