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Around SBN: Randy Moss A Raven?

Building on it

Promoted from the diaries. Some good discussion in the subsequent comments, regarding the maligned yet most likely course of the offseason: keeping the 2 picks and signing a couple midlevel FAs. -Matt

Building on the draft talk, I thought it might be cool to talk free agents.

Star-divide

The general opinion seems to be that the Bulls will be shooting for a big gun this season (Garnett, Harrington, etc.).  Personally, I'm not sold on any big name idea aside from Garnett (which seems like a pipedream to me).  Mining the web for lower-tier FA revealed a nice pool of PF/C's that might mesh well with our team.  Mohammed, Gooden, Wilcox, Przybilla, etc.  Wilcox in particular might be a great find.  Check out his numbers...

Team G GS MPG FGM-A FG% 3PM-A 3P% FTM-A FT% OFF DEF TOT APG SPG BPG TO PF PPG
  LAC  48 1 13.7 90-168  .536 0-2  .000 38-59  .644 1.0 2.6 3.6 .4 .31 .44 .67 2.10 4.5
  SEA  18 12 28.7 107-174  .615 0-0  .000 35-46  .761 2.4 4.5 6.9 1.1 .44 .22 1.33 3.20 13.8

I'm sure that looks garbled, the numbers that matter are 14 pts/gm, 7 boards, 1 steal.  also, 61.5% the field.

I really think that we can land one-two solid, reasonably priced FA in this summer's market.  Not many teams have money and a good portion of the players probably won't cost a lot.  
Personally, i think Wilcox would shine on our team.
 

Poll
What Free Agent would be your priority?
Al Harrington
26 votes
Vlad Radmonivich
1 votes
Joel Przybilla
9 votes
Dwight Gooden
13 votes
Nazr Mohammed
12 votes

61 votes | Poll has closed

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Stay away from Dwight Gooden
The dude is like, 40 years old and a total coke-head.  

Drew Gooden might be a good pick up though. :)

by Rodmaniac on Mar 29, 2006 12:52 PM CST reply actions  

Stretch run
c'mon, a little snow might pep us up for a similar stretch run next spring.  j/k.  yeah, i blew the poll like i was jenna jamison or something.  notice, i neglected to include wilcox after pushing him in the diary.  i'm a jackass.

by CookDing on Mar 29, 2006 1:21 PM CST up reply actions  

Wilcox
Actually, from what I've heard, Seattle really likes what they've seen from Wilcox, and they really want to keep him.

by Rodmaniac on Mar 29, 2006 4:12 PM CST up reply actions  

Doc Gooden
He's in jail now anyways, isn't he?

by Big D on Mar 29, 2006 4:10 PM CST up reply actions  

F) None of the above
I'm sorry but signing any of those guys to big deals would be bad news.  ESPECIALLY Harrington.  I know some here like him, but he's NOT the low post scorer this team needs.  He's a 3 people.  Just like Deng only older and twice as expensive.  

by Jobu on Mar 29, 2006 1:21 PM CST reply actions  

listen
I said "reasonable contracts".  Harrington obviously will cost a pretty penny, but the others MAY not.  That's what I'm talking about.  Ideally, something far less substantial than the Tyson deal.

by CookDing on Mar 29, 2006 1:23 PM CST up reply actions  

Sorry
My anti-Harrington fire burns bright and sometimes it blinds me from reading the details/whole story.  

My vote goes to Mohammed.  Hopefully a reasonable deal is around $6-8 mil/year and Nazr will give the Bulls a hometown discount.  

by Jobu on Mar 29, 2006 1:41 PM CST up reply actions  

Al Harrington/ Wilcox/Gooden & Bull Culture
Harrington himself has told people that he would prefer to play the 3 rather than the 4.  I agree that we need a power forward or alternatively a center that can have a low post presence on offense and play defence.  We are a perimeter team.  

My concern with Wilcox is that up until this year he had not shown much.  

Gooden is a possibility because Hinrich endorses him and the Cavs will be hard pressed to match any offer.

Lastly - we must be aware of the Bull Culture factor - gym rat is required as well as a hard worker in practice.  Actual skills may vary or not included.

by cje on Mar 29, 2006 3:13 PM CST up reply actions  

and then some
i like all of those points, particularly the last one.  before this season, i'd never could have imagined presenting this player as an option, but J. Przybilla might fit because of this.  Apparently, McMillan has praised his work ethic all season long.  It doesn't necessarily translate to the court (outside of blocks), but that might be all the better.  Having a big body in the middle will take pressure off of Tyson and make life very easy for our guards.  Essentially, another good defensive big would mask defensive efficiencies for our guards and allow them to concentrate more on offense.  Of course, from the looks of it, J.P. would give us very little there.
And after mentioning all of this, I can't help but point out that this guy was a pretty decent disappointment when he played in the Big 10 (Minny?).

by CookDing on Mar 29, 2006 3:33 PM CST up reply actions  

Right
Maybe our plan is to reconstruct the final four teams from the past few years, so they play harder in practice against each other.  Seriously, though, Drew Gooden could be a beast, if he had a solid year of our work ethic, and three hour practices.  Seems to be a competitor more in the Tim Duncan way than in the Tyson way, more internally driven, which is good and seems to be just fine for Pax.

by cubbybear on Mar 29, 2006 11:03 PM CST up reply actions  

Yes to Nazr
I like Nazr Mohammed, too.  

He's been fairly steady, hasn't he, or is my memory playing tricks?  I think that may be more important than a lot of things.  

Sometime this summer, I think a trade is going to happen for another veteran player, too.  Things will be different.

by KT on Mar 29, 2006 6:52 PM CST up reply actions  

Forget about Przybilla
Some team is going to offer him a huge contract for the simple reason that he's a 7-footer.  Hell, Jerome James got a 30 million dollar contract, so I wouldn't be surprised if someone offers Przybilla a contract in the 40-50 million range.  Pax would have to be a fool to offer him anything close to that kind of money.

by Big D on Mar 29, 2006 4:47 PM CST reply actions  

Toronto may bite
They really could use Pryzbilla to play alongside Bosh, who like Chandler is too thin to man-up the opponent's biggest player every night.

I think he fits more there anyway, because Pryz/Bosh would be a defense/offense combination. The Bulls should look in the Frontcourt for a low-post scorer.

That's why I like Wilcox too, although the Sonics can match any offer and he is a prime candidate for contract-year theory.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 29, 2006 4:51 PM CST up reply actions  

good points
and thank you for making them.  i think i'm coming around to the idea of not having j.p..  i'd have to agree that 45-50 million for a limited athelete is probably a bit rich.

by CookDing on Mar 30, 2006 7:25 AM CST up reply actions  

Can they get both?
I know Harrington wants his money but are the Bulls not 20 million under the cap? I would think they could get Nazr, whom I like alot also, for a reasonable price?

by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on Mar 29, 2006 9:38 PM CST reply actions  

I don't like Harrington or any other 3/4.
Tyson Chandler has a small frame.  He can only gain so much muscle in one year, though I think he will work out hard core this summer.  Better to have someone who can guard center, and move Chandler to the PF spot.  I think this is something often overlooked.  Chandler was a PF before Curry got traded.  I think Nazr is still the best, and seriously might want to get out the humongous shadow of TD.  If he does anything, it's only because TD draws a double, people seem to think.  He's a tough player, a good defender, and would maybe come simply to come home.

by cubbybear on Mar 29, 2006 10:58 PM CST reply actions  

Pax confirms Bull Culture
Pax fired back at Tim Thomas and confirmed the Bull Standard for players.  This means that any free agent or possible draft pick needs to be analyzed based on his work habits.  This team needs three things - veteran leadership (they miss antonio davis more than curry because he was tough and kept all the players in line) a low post scorer that can defend (I agree that Chandler is better coming from the weak side as a power forward on defence) and a defensive shooting guard that can shoot - I do not think deng has long enough range to be a shooting guard and is not quick enough to guard the 2 guard. This suggests the following:

Draft route - Alderich is supposedly a gym rat would be good in the low post but perhaps strong enough to defend.  Tyrus Thomas  has potential but does anyone know his work habits? Scottie Pippen has endorsed Ronnie Brewer (more as a point forward)but his shot is wierd.  I like Shelden Williams but not with our first pick.

Free agent route - Is Nazr a hard worker? Does anyone know his work habit?  If okay, I would target him. Al Harington is not big enough to play the 4 and we have enough at the 3.  Drew Gooden is endorsed by Captain Kirk. I would target him too.  I am not aware of any guards that are free agents.  Likely we will sign antonio davis for minimum now that he has been released.

Trade - Obvious - Kevin Garnet fills leadership and low post and hard working needs but at what price?  I would be interested in what 2 guards will be available.

by cje on Mar 30, 2006 8:39 AM CST reply actions  

"Bulls Culture"
Yeah, that's what all teams say when they don't have superstars.  If you don't have any stars, you better have a good work ethic.

by Big D on Mar 30, 2006 8:56 AM CST up reply actions  

where the good lord split ya
normally, i'd say that's true but paxson and skiles have established a track record.  spending millions of dollars to send a player home speaks for itself, trading crawford had some strong 'work ethic' undertones and, remind me, didn't we buy-out somebody last year?  maybe i'm just thinking of the Jay Williams 'favor'.  
i'm inclined to believe that this is more than just talk, it's a culture.  they've drafted experience and effort over potential and flash and, more than any other team, the word "effort" gets put out there.  

by CookDing on Mar 30, 2006 10:09 AM CST up reply actions  

Thinking of E-Rob?
I think its important to note that just because there's this 'Bulls culture' that doesn't mean that pax/skiles are averse to getting a 'star'. Just that they have to be a star with the right attitude, not like...Zach Randolph or something.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 30, 2006 10:16 AM CST up reply actions  

Poor Zach Randolph
http://www.oregonlive.com/sports/oregonian/index.ssf?/base/sports/1143705329194240.xml&coll=7

How dare that mean Nate McMillan make them practice today!  Just because they've lost 9 in a row, that doesn't mean they need practice.

Seriously though, if Paul Allen wonders why fans aren't going to his team's games, this is a great example of why.

by Big D on Mar 30, 2006 11:39 AM CST up reply actions  

Yes,
e-rob!  thanks, I drew a blank on that one.  and, i agree that 'star' doesn't mean not a hard worker.  i'm sure there are plenty of players the bulls would jump at that are considered 'stars'.

by CookDing on Mar 30, 2006 11:53 AM CST up reply actions  

I think
even if they did have a star they would be hard working. The Bulls are a hard working team. We're lucky. It will pay off. You don't think Pip and MJ
didn't work hard?

by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on Mar 30, 2006 2:29 PM CST up reply actions  

i wouldn't mind seeing
the bulls just add a marginally priced free agent this summer and both draft picks and staying far enough under the cap to make a max contract offer to PP, Dirk, or Rashard next summer without giving anything away in a trade this summer... is there some sort of financial problem with this? Do we have to resign to many of our own players next summer or something?

by micah on Mar 30, 2006 10:37 AM CST reply actions  

Wait untill 2007????
I would not wait because there are no guarantees that the free agents would sign with us.  

The only way to get a star with the right attitude for the Bulls is via trade.  KG is off table.  Ben Maller mentioned bosch but why would Toronto trade him.  Jason Richardson may be interesting but its tough to pay a guard with a max contract that is not the equivalent of MJ.  Drew Goodin will help but he is not a star.

Separately, my draft list based on work ethic, team needs, and talent is as follows (based on what I have read which may or may not be true)  - Aldrige, Tyler of LSU, Noach of Florida, Sheldon Williams, and Ronnie Brewer.  

by cje on Mar 30, 2006 11:00 AM CST reply actions  

Bosh isn't going anywhere
I wish people would stop saying otherwise. KG is far far more likely, and that's saying something.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 30, 2006 11:05 AM CST up reply actions  

future obligations
Hinrich's up for an extension this summer, else he'd be a restricted FA after 06-07. Same for Sweetney, although you'd have to think he wont get an extension anytime soon.

And during THAT summer, Gordon and Deng will be up for extensions. Won't necessarily put them over the cap but you can see the money dwinding. Songaila will probably get paid as well but figure he'll get Othella's money.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 30, 2006 11:08 AM CST up reply actions  

What Free Agents will Cost
Here's a list of the contracts signed last year by Big Men. You can decide for yourself what  Mohammed, Harrington, Gooden or Pryzbilla will cost. To my mind a trade for a big guard is far more likely than signing a Free Agent Big man.
I couldn't find out what Chandler actually signed for but I had 6 Years $63 Mil down from last Summer.

Player         New Team      05-06   Multi - Year
Tyson Chandler    Chicago     9.3    $63.0 Mil 6 Years
Zy Ilgauskas  Cleveland     9.2    $55.0 Mil 5 Years
Sl Dalembert Phila      8.0    $53.6 Mil 6 Years
Kwame Brown    Lakers     7.5    $24.8 Mil 3 Years
Eddy Curry    New York 7.4    ????
Antoine Walker    Miami     7.0    $43.0 Mil 5 Years
Stromile Swift    Houston     5.0    $22.4 Mil 4 Years
Udonis Haslem    Miami     5.0    $33.0 Mil 5 Years
Jerome James    N Y     5.0    $29.0 Mil 5 Years
Don  Marshall   Cleve     4.8    $20.0 Mil 4 Years
Dan Gadzuric    Milw     4.8    $36.0 Mil  6 Years
Zaza Pachulia    Atl     4.0    $16.0 Mil 4 Years
Otha Harrington    Chic     3.5    One Year
Vlad Radmanovic    Sea     3.2    Signed qualifying offer
Zeljko Rebraca    Clips     3.0    9.0 Mil 3 Years
Robert Horry    San An     3.0    $10.0 Mil 3 Years
Steven Hunter    Phila     2.8    $15.0 Mil 5 Years
Brn Scalabrine    Boston     2.6    $8.7 Mil 3 Years
D  Songailia    Chicago     2.2    $4.6 Mil 2 Years
DeSagana Diop    Dallas     2.0    $6.48 Mil 3 Years
Dikembe Mutombo    Houston     2.0    $4.2 Mil 2 Years
Mark Madsen    Minn     2.0    $12.1 Mil 5 Years
Jake Voskul    Charl     1.9    One Year
Fabrico Umberto    San An     1.9    $7.3 Mil 3 Years
Malik Allen    Chicago     1.7    One Year
Michael Ruffin    Wash     1.7    $3.5 Mil 2 Years
Alan Henderson    Cleve     1.1    One Year
Mikki Moore    Seattle     1.0    One Year

REB

by OldeBull on Mar 30, 2006 11:04 AM CST reply actions  

Big Guard Possibilities

Jason Richardson - expensive
Michael Pietrus - Budget buy

Joe Johnson - doubt he is available
Paul Pierce - doubt he is available

Ray Allen - not young enough

Correy Maggette - injury prone?

Josh Howard - doubt he is available

Who did I leave out that is realistic?

by cje on Mar 30, 2006 11:56 AM CST reply actions  

Marquis Grissom
He's not looking like much now but was regarded as highly as Josh Howard before Howard took his minutes (which might tell the whole story).

Here's this summer's FA crop which should act as a nice follow-up to OldeBull's comment.  

The 2006 NBA Free Agent Class
Player   Option  Year   Player  Option  Year   Player  Option  Year
Aaron McKie   player   '06   Frank Williams   team   '06   Michael Finley   player   '06
Al Harrington     '06   Fred Hoiberg     '06   Michael Olowokandi     '06
Alvin Williams   player   '06   Fred Jones     '06   Mike Dunleavy     '06
Amare Stoudemire     '06   George Lynch     '06   Mike James   player   '06
Andre Emmett     '06   Jackson Vroman     '06   Nazr Mohammed     '06
Anfernee Hardaway     '06   Jacque Vaughn   team   '06   Nene     '06
Antonio Burks     '06   James Posey   player   '06   Nick Van Exel     '06
Antonio Davis     '06   Jared Jeffries     '06   Nikoloz Tskitishvili   team   '06
Ben Wallace     '06   Jarron Collins     '06   Pape Sow   team   '06
Bernard Robinson     '06   Jason Collier     '06   Paul Shirley     '06
Bonzi Wells   team   '06   Jason Hart   player   '06   Predrag Stojakovic   player   '06
Bostjan Nachbar   team   '06   Jason Terry     '06   Rasual Butler     '06
Caron Butler     '06   Jim Jackson     '06   Raul Lopez     '06
Casey Jacobsen   team   '06   Jiri Welsch     '06   Reggie Miller     '06
Chris Webber   player   '06   Joel Przybilla     '06   Robert Traylor   team   '06
Chris Wilcox     '06   John Salmons     '06   Ron Mercer   player   '06
Chucky Atkins     '06   Juan Dixon   team   '06   Ronald Dupree     '06
Clarence Weatherspoon     '06   Jumaine Jones     '06   Ruben Patterson   player   '06
Clifford Robinson   team   '06   Justin Reed   team   '06   Sam Cassell     '06
Curtis Borchardt     '06   Kareem Rush   team   '06   Scot Pollard     '06
Dajuan Wagner   team   '06   Kelvin Cato     '06   Shawn Bradley   player   '06
Dan Dickau   team   '06   Lamond Murray     '06   Speedy Claxton     '06
David Wesley     '06   Lindsey Hunter     '06   Stanislav Medvedenko     '06
DeShawn Stevenson   player   '06   Loren Woods     '06   Tamar Slay   team   '06
DJ Mbenga     '06   Lorenzen Wright     '06   Tayshaun Prince   team   '06
Doug Christie     '06   Lucious Harris     '06   Tim Thomas     '06
Drew Gooden     '06   Mamadou N'diaye     '06   Trevor Ariza     '06
Eddie Gill     '06   Mario Kasun     '06   Vlade Divac     '06
Eric Piatkowski     '06   Matt Harpring     '06   Voshon Lenard     '06
Eric Williams   player   '06   Melvin Ely     '06   Yao Ming     '06
Francisco Elson     '06    

...not entirely accurate with players like Miller on there (was that Dwight Gooden that I spotted in there too?), but it's something.

by CookDing on Mar 30, 2006 12:03 PM CST reply actions  

hot damn
i'm not even a fucking fan of baseball!  one of these days i'll get it straight.  until then, bear with me and the continuous stream of "Yao Prior", "Amare Guillen" and "Kirk Schilling"s' spilling from my pie hole.  
Sorry.

by CookDing on Mar 30, 2006 1:05 PM CST up reply actions  

Thanks - I forgot about Nene
Although Nene is a big question mark because of his injury.  

by cje on Mar 30, 2006 12:09 PM CST reply actions  

I'm wary
The one thing we don't want to do is overpay for mediocre players.  Pax doesn't want to copy Krause a few years ago, signing guys like Ron Mercer and Eddie Robinson to huge contracts after failing to land Grant Hill and Tracy McGrady.  This year, there aren't any free agents on the market on the level of Hill and McGrady.  The best free agent on the market (Al Harrington) is a guy who couldn't crack the starting lineup of the Pacers for years.  Why would we give him a 5 year, $60 million contract?  Unless we can trade for Garnett (and remember, about 25 teams will be calling the T-Wolves this summer), there isn't going to be a savior available for us.  In that case, we might as well just hold on to our draft picks and cap room.  We're probably a decent rotation player or two away from being a solid playoff team for years to come (albeit not a title contender with the current roster), so we're better off saving that cap room for another year or two if necessary.

by Big D on Mar 30, 2006 1:44 PM CST reply actions  

who can trade for garnett?
i guess i'm not really clear on what constitutes a good trade partner for the wolves.  i did hear on dan patrick's show that KG is unhappy and wants to leave.

i assume you need

  1. cap space or similarly paid signed players
  2. an owner willing to pay tax (i assume a team with KG goes over cap)
  3. players or picks the wolves want
who else has space, an owner willing to pay for a good team, and picks like we do?  i think they'd prefer to get back picks instead of overpaid players to match garnett's salary.  would they prefer to trade big salaries with the knicks and end up wih underachieving chumps?

if anyone can shed some light on this for me, much appreciated

oh, and matt, were you at the crushing orlando loss?  i think i saw my new favorite halftime act.  the something african acrobat team.  those guys were amazing and only showcased how truly horrible the chicago "acrobatic" team is.  it's glorified jump roping and probably the worst act in sports.

Dalibor and Dragan!

by FAQ on Mar 30, 2006 1:55 PM CST reply actions  

wasn't there
Only 2 games left for me, Indiana and Toronto.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 30, 2006 2:12 PM CST up reply actions  

On Garnett
If I were the Wolves, my criteria for trading KG wouldn't be what you mentioned, but at least a top-15 talent and another solid rotation player. Plus picks too.

But this is McHale, so maybe capspace/youngplayers/picks is enough. If that's the case the Bulls have the best to offer. I just think that Minny would need fewer 'quantity' assets and try to land a big-time player who may not quite be KG but still an all-star.

Good point about Reinsdorf though, not every team can afford KG and we're lucky that the Bulls owner is willing.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 30, 2006 2:16 PM CST up reply actions  

Garnett?
I don't think they wana trade him now. Also now that I think about it he cost way to much. What 18 mil a year? You wonder why the T-wolves suck?

by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on Mar 30, 2006 2:37 PM CST up reply actions  

collecting assets
I think signing Harrington at ~8 mil is a good deal.  

You get a 25-yr old 6'10" SF, 19ppg scorer w/a post-up game who can also play PF.  

Yeah he's not a rebounder and mainly a SF, but at this point I think having Al Harrington playing in a PF/SF rotation is a quantum leap over Malik Allen, O Harrington, Songaila or Sweetney.  This also takes the pressure off our big man high lotto pick.

With roughly 18 mil in cap space we can still sign a guy like Nazr and have space to add other veterans.

Then this allows us to draft a big guard with our second pick.  It really doesn't matter if the guard lacks a consistent jumper, what we need is length, athleticism, slashing ability and defense.

We have to take advantage of this FA because there is less competition.  Next year there will be more teams in the market.  

If Al Harrington doesn't work out, he is a very tradeable asset you could put in any deal.  Plus if Luol is traded then he takes over the SF spot full-time.  He is a versatile asset.

If you're going to do a sign-and-trade for a superstar, you want to have enough assets to compete once you get him.

We have four major needs this offseason:

  1.  Players with a post-up game
  2.  Big men
  3.  Big guard who can defend / attack the basket
  4.  Appreciating assets
Al Harrington gives us #1, .5 of #2 since he mainly plays SF, #4, and allows us to draft #3.

He brings us closer to having that critical mass of talented players to be a contender.

by CRG on Mar 30, 2006 2:43 PM CST reply actions  

Another need
5. consistent Go-To scorer to close out games

(unless you think Ben will be truly ready for that next season)

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 30, 2006 3:46 PM CST up reply actions  

I wonder
I wonder, after reading that realcavs message board, how many other people think their team will have a chance at the premier free agents this off season.

I remember my hopes being crushed when we signed Mercer and Robinson instead of Hill and McGrady. You could see the car crash coming.

Realistically, does the stigma of a post-MJ Bulls team still remain?

Or will a free agent come here for less than a max contract for the chance to revive a franchise that has serious growing pains. I agree that not many of the FA's are worth max money.

Who wants the headache of MJ looking down from the luxury suites and the banners screaming from the rafters?

It's alot of pressure for someone to take, and not many of the hoopsters today can handle it.

I love Grant Park in June!! Been there six times!!!

by james@lifeinthecell on Mar 30, 2006 4:01 PM CST reply actions  

ghost of MJ
I don't think he could care less who plays for the Bulls.

But all those Jay Mariotti columns comparing any newcomer to MJ may get to one after a while :)

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 30, 2006 4:35 PM CST up reply actions  

first rule to free agents
Don't read the papers!

Or they could just point out how wrong Jay is about everything, and explain he's comic relief.

The PRess here is pretty kind to sports figures unless their owners or GMs or any kind of management figure.  Is that a plus in attracting free agents?

by KT on Mar 30, 2006 5:32 PM CST up reply actions  

Nearly every time
It's about money only, save your franchise isn't a wreck (The Hawks, or post-MJ Bulls)

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 30, 2006 6:00 PM CST up reply actions  

Looks like the gang's all here
Great thread everyone.  OK, first and foremost, can "LePip" from the Cavs board come talk to us and bring his girlfriend in the hot "Chicago" shirt with him?  Holy crap.  Matt, how do we make this happen?  

CRG - the way you described Harrington above is the first time I've looked at him as tolerable. $8 mil/year would be nice but anything more than that and I start running the opposite direction.

Gooden's value to me is mixed like a lot of those fans.  He's a young PF who rebounds well, scores a little, and yet no team really wants him.  What's the deal?

Even with the aforementioned post, I would like to officially start driving the Zach Randolph bus.  Anyone who saw him vs. the Bulls two weeks ago saw  a legit low post scoring threat.  Not a tweener, not a jump shooter, but the real deal and what this team so desperately needs.  He's still only  24 and from NW Indiana - so this is almost like coming home. In fact, not so long ago there was a very talented, young PF from Portland with and enormous salary and attitude problems named 'Sheed.  We all know how that turned out.  In fact, the 2nd best team in our division ALSO got their stud PF from Portland (J O'Neal). It's finally the Bulls' turn to ravage the (Rose) Garden of PFs that grow in the Northwest.  

by Jobu on Mar 30, 2006 4:50 PM CST reply actions  

kinda
more kinda not though.  randolph is from central in (marion) and neither 'sheed or o'neal were ever in a bar while their brother was shooting someone.  randolph's scoring/boarding talent is tantilizing, but the comparisons to o'neal and sheed will not translate into reality.  those guys both care about the game and trying to perfect and have a LOT of talents on both sides of the ball.  i've watched randolph from his senior year 'til now and he has little/nothing to offer outside of about 5 feet from the basket.  He also sucks the life out of an offense and has a very poor work ethic.

by CookDing on Mar 31, 2006 7:22 AM CST up reply actions  

NENE
one word...nene....why isnt it mentioned more on this thread.  Sure hes had some injuries.  the guy is really young though and he can score and is a big body who can also defend.  He has a huge upside and a lot of potential....plus the nuggets probably wont be able to resign him. they need cap room for next year (melo).  

by Sambossanova on Mar 30, 2006 11:25 PM CST reply actions  

coming around
this is an idea i'm coming around to.  for me, there were two reasons he fell off of my radar.  first, the knee injury.  he was not a consistent player before the injury and, now that he's suffered it, it's hard to be sure about him.  secondly, he was the big name FA heading into this year and everybody was talking about making a run at him, making it seem likely that he would require a big investment.  however, maybe that's not the case now.  who knows.  healthy, he brings a good portion of what ails us.  though his offense is a bit limited.  

by CookDing on Mar 31, 2006 7:25 AM CST up reply actions  

RE: Coming Around
I'm also warming to Nene. Sambossanova - I'm glad you brought him up. I have a hard time assessing his market value and haven't seem him play much.  Size-wise, he fits the bill and could be a perfect compliment to Tyson.   Looking at the contracts signed last season, let's hope he's closer to Udonis Haslem money and not Chandler's deal.

I still like Randolph and I'll give him the benefit of the doubt for a couple reasons.  First, aside from our beloved Knickerbockers, he's on the worst team in the NBA.  That can't be fun.  What makes matters worse is that the majority of the Blazers' rotation is fresh out of high school.  Here in Chicago, we know how ugly that can be.  When the Blazers were getting destroyed by the Bulls, his motor kept going and he scored at will vs. Chandler.  That's not a minor detail b/c I believe most here think Chandler an OK defender.  At one point had half the Blazers' points.  Maybe Skiles can channel some Michigan State love his way and make him feel good.  

Look at it this way, there are only 10 PFs in the NBA that currently score 18+ ppg:  Dirk, Brand (ugh!), Bosh, KG, Marion, Pau, Webber, J Oneal, Duncan, & Randolph.  IMO, the only other person besides Randolph that could be acquired MIGHT be KG.   These guys are the elite and it's no coincidence that a lot of them anchor the premiere teams in the NBA.  I'm pretty sure that only Bosh is younger than Randolph who again, is only 24!  The Bulls could lock this guy up as he enters his prime and address our consensus #1 priority on this team.

by Jobu on Mar 31, 2006 8:47 AM CST up reply actions  

post-up game
Does Nene have one?  From what I've read he doesn't have much of an offensive game, but according to hoopshype he does play above the rim, so that's good.  Also, he only manages around 6 boards a game, but hoopshype also says he has very big hands...  I wonder if we can chop off one of his hands and give it to chandler?  That would be huge.

by CRG on Mar 31, 2006 11:49 AM CST up reply actions  

post-up game
I don't think Nene has many post moves (more than Chandler, surely) but he can get his points.

I completely forgot about Nene, glad someone brought it up. He's definately the widebody that could help Chandler defensively, plus he's a rebounder which is always a plus.

go-to post scorer, likely not. But as a mid-level signing it'd work out really nice. I'm not sure of and attitude problems outside of bitching about his rotation spot in Denver (with KMart and Camby starting) but that wouldn't be a problem here.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 31, 2006 2:03 PM CST up reply actions  

What price Garnett ?
I beginning to think that Garnett will push for a trade and be available. The question is what would the Wolves want from the Bulls.

I expect they would require us to also take one of their bad contracts (Blount or Jaric) and would want in return the Knicks Draft pick, Chandler, and 2 more players from (Deng, Duhon, Nocioni and Gordon.)

Let's make it Garnett & Jaric for Chandler, Deng, Duhon and the #1

Would you make that trade?

REB

by OldeBull on Mar 31, 2006 1:34 PM CST reply actions  

some other bad Wolves contracts
Hudson, Madsen, Hassell...

Look at what you've done Kevin McHale. LOOK!

Trading Deng AND Chandler? Why not just punch me in the nuts while you're at it.

I'd say one of them, plus gordon&duhon. I'd rather give up both picks.

I just think the point of getting KG out of Minnesota is that he'd have a better cast in Chicago than there, and without Chandler or Deng I don't see it. Hinrich/Gordon/KG is a playoff core, but not a championship one. And once you get KG he takes all the cap space, so there will be little room for error.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 31, 2006 2:00 PM CST up reply actions  

stop, you're scaring me
it's just too ripe for following the Herschel Walker corollary.  however, i've just drank the kool-aid and firmly believe that 'slowhand' paxson does not make that trade.  really, does that trade get us a championship in the next 2-3 years?  it better, because we'd most certainly be a very dangerous team by just keeping our picks, making a role-player-ish signing this summer and letting the squad develop.  

by CookDing on Mar 31, 2006 3:30 PM CST up reply actions  

'slowhand'
Always a sigh of relief to know who's heading this ship. In Pax we trust.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 31, 2006 3:35 PM CST up reply actions  

Wolves Trade
Including Deng doesn't look that appealing to me either Matt but if you look at the Wolves situation they need to offer their fans something in exchange for Garnett. "We're not getting a superstar back but look at the good young (future star)players we have now"  

I think Chandler would almost have to be included and if we are taking back a PG(Jaric) in the trade then Gordon or Duhon goes to the Wolves. We can't trade both draft picks because we traded our 05 pick. We could trade the 07 Chi/NY pick.
If you said no to Deng would you give them Nocioni then.

Garnett & Jaric for Chandler, Duhon, Nocioni & the #1 Pick??

 

REB

by OldeBull on Mar 31, 2006 2:19 PM CST reply actions  

Can't trade both picks?
Wow, that's is the first I've heard of that but I'm pretty sure you're absolutely right.

That's a pretty big technicality, although they could always trade another future protected pick or something. Still limits options, which is bad.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 31, 2006 2:37 PM CST up reply actions  

Draft picks. . .
I think that's right, but we could always pick up a late first-round pick in a trade.  We just have to have a first round pick, so if we trade both picks and get back a later first rounder (like in a three-way deal or something), that's OK.

by Big D on Mar 31, 2006 2:44 PM CST up reply actions  

problems w/KG trade
I don't think we should do it if we have to give up Deng AND Chandler.  It is like a punch to the nuts.  We would end up in a Minny-like state of torpor.

If we have to give up Deng, then I'd only do it if we could still manage the cap to sign Al Harrington for the 3 spot.  

If we have to give up Chandler, then we'd better sign Nene / Nazr, etc.

The other problem has to do w/KG-- he has never shown much of a post game, whether it is because of the crappy players around him who can't pass him the ball in the post or what not.  Bottom line is that he isn't a go-to guy because he is more of a jump shooter.  That is bad.  

Priority #1:  We need low-post scorers.  

This is also why I think we take Aldridge w/that high pick over anyone else.

I'm also hesitant to give up that 2007 NYK #1...especially since it seems the consensus is that it will be a superstar potential-laden draft.

by CRG on Mar 31, 2006 2:30 PM CST reply actions  

KG Trade
I'm with you on the 07 draft pick. I doubt the Knicks can equal their performance of this year but they are still likely to be in the middle of the lottery. That's a pick I would make someone pay dearly to get.

I'm not pushing this trade I only wanted to look at what Garnett would likely cost. Does anyone think we can get him without giving up Chandler?
Keep in mind Garnett is $20.0 Mil and Jaric or Blount is another $5.5 Mil if you don't send back some salary to Minn you've used up all your cap space.

REB

by OldeBull on Mar 31, 2006 2:56 PM CST up reply actions  

KG's Worth
He's probably worth more to a team that can pair him with a superstar than one that doesn't...  

I agree w/Jobu, he'd fit in very well w/the Lakers.

by CRG on Mar 31, 2006 3:11 PM CST up reply actions  

I'm over KG
Yes, he's amazing.  Yes, he deserves to be somewhere besides Minnesota.  But if Chandler and Deng are included in a trade for him, he won't be that much better off.  

If I were a betting man, I bet he goes to the Lakers for some sort of package that include Odom.

by Jobu on Mar 31, 2006 3:04 PM CST reply actions  

odom, mihm, butler and #1
would probably make mchale think.  i just don't think that the potential of our players is going to spill over into the immediate quality of a star-level player.  we don't really have an exciting player for teams to market around.  gordon's the closest but nobody's going to mistake him for even a sam cassell.  and that's saying something.
i really don't see us being able to make a garnett trade without blowing our team up.  i do think the ideas that were thrown out before seem like what it would take for us to get him, but i don't see the worth for a player that will likely decline from here on out as opposed to going steve nash on our asses.  i really believe that lakers land him (if he goes).

by CookDing on Mar 31, 2006 3:36 PM CST up reply actions  

I don't see them trading with the Lakers
Who's Butler?  Do you mean Bynum?  That will work under the cap rules. I don't see where the Lakers have anyone on their roster that Minnesota would really want.

Minnesota would be fools to make that trade.  That team would win about 30 games tops next year and do nothing to get them out from under their bad contracts. If the're going to lose they will want to do it with young players and draft picks.

REB

by OldeBull on Mar 31, 2006 4:08 PM CST up reply actions  

Kevin McHale IS a fool!
He's no Isiah, but he's close.  Click on Matt's link above to their salaries. Awful!  Hudson, Hassell, Olawakandi, Mark Blount, Jaric, etc.  Barf! Don't forget that he  should also be on the hook for $21 Mil to Sprewell but "Pig Tails" turned it down with his infamous "family to feed" comment.  

Another trade that works is Odom, Kwame, & a #1  straight up for KG.  I don't buy into that one but I just wanted to throw that out there.  

To trade a superstar you usually want to get 2, if not all 3 of the following:

  1. All Star player
  2. Cap relief
  3. Draft picks
If McHale decides to liberates KG from Minny, he'll likely send him to whoever can give the most attractive package of those three things.

by Jobu on Mar 31, 2006 4:36 PM CST reply actions  

no kg
The more I think about KG, the less I want the Bulls to trade for him.

Moving one of our core guys plus a pick would be all I'd be willing to give up for KG, but in the NBA GM's tend to overvalue talent, and Minnesota wouldn't settle for that scenario. (And from what I read KG isn't clamoring to leave Minnesota, making it easier for McHale to drive up the asking price.)

The Bulls have some cap room, and as was mentioned before, we have a few guys looking at extensions and raises in the next few years, so discretion (I like the "slowhand" reference, too) by Pax is imperative.

IMHO...in a perfect world signing Nazr and Harrington would best, but we're likely to get only one of those guys, and I don't think Harrington rates a max contract. So dump some dead weight (Othella, Sweetney--although he still has trade value--Pike, Pargo--even though he will win one game a year for us, and has that "30-point-where-the-hell-did-this-come-from game" and yes, Schnesher--although he is good for 6 fouls a game against Shaq) go for Nazr (he's not unlike Antonio Davis) and keep the picks for a big man and big guard.

I love Grant Park in June!! Been there six times!!!

by james@lifeinthecell on Apr 1, 2006 8:34 AM CST reply actions  

O.k., I've got it.
Gordon, Chandler, Duhon, Sweetney (it takes a lot of players to get close to Garnett's salary) and the two picks from the Curry trade for KG and one of the undesirable Minnesota contracts (of which there are a lot).  For those concerned about KG's salary, keep in mind we would be paying him only about $6 million more than we paid Tim Thomas this year.

Starting lineup:

Hinrich
Bulls pick (Roy, Foye, or Brewer)
Deng
KG
Free Agent Center (Mohammad?)

Not bad at all.

by Eddy Currys Broken Heart on Apr 1, 2006 12:03 PM CST reply actions  

Garnett trade
We don't have to match contracts. We are $20 mil under the cap.

The more I look at the cost the more I doubt this will get done.

REB

by OldeBull on Apr 2, 2006 3:09 PM CDT up reply actions  

No bench
Yeah we could rename the Bulls the Chicago Timberwolves. I would stock pile tallent. KG is getting up there I don't know. Oh yeah I was really going to write, whats up with Pargo this year he can't hit open shots?

by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on Apr 1, 2006 7:01 PM CST reply actions  

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