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Fire Skiles, obvious suggestion but read on

I know it is too easy to throw out the "fire Skiles" nuclear option but there is good reason to think firing Skiles is the appropriate move to make outside of the Bulls record. The best reasons to fire Skiles is because he's unable to get the most of the talent on his roster. I believe this is due to his intense autocratic style. In other words, he is too inflexible.

Skiles wants you to be a certain kind of player to get minutes for him. This has its positives in that he likes guys who play smart and aggressive on D. But Skiles also has little patience for guys who make mistakes even if they are putting in the requisite effort (see Gordon, Ben). This also manifested itself in his refusal to use Tim Thomas last season. Thomas was effective later in the season for the Suns, especially in the playoffs. This year it shows up in his use of Thabo and Tyrus Thomas. Those two guys are young, going to make mistakes and Skiles does not have the patience for it.

Skiles is like a charismatic leader who starts a military coup appealling to oppressed people and then once he is in power becomes a nutball fascist dictator. The military coup was 04-05 when Skiles took a team that was going nowhere stockpiling lottery picks for no gain and made the playoffs. He took a young team got them fired up to play good defense and was successful. Two years later he cannot deal with the changing face of the Bulls roster. Not only that but he cannot deal with a roster that Paxson has constructed with Skiles' style in mind.

Skiles is still giving Duhon too much PT, still yo-yoing Gordon in and out the starting lineup, still being incredibly impatient with certain players and now he's not getting results anymore either despite addding one of the best defenders in the league (who Skiles is not getting a lot out of). You can blame the young players for not developing enough or Wallace for not being the guy we paid for or the lack of a low post scoring threat. You could also look at the situation from the perspective that Skiles is not utilizing the talent on hand properly. I think there is a lot of talent on hand and it is more than likely Skiles' fault the team is in the position it's in now, off to a terrible start.

One of the things that concerned me most was sending away J.R. Smith for nothing. The NBA has changed a lot, with the draft getting younger and younger we've seen a lot of players come out too early struggle for a few years and eventually put it together on their second team. Jermaine O'Neal is the first example of this this type of player. We get a young guy that another team has prematurely given up on because he did not live up to first round pick expectations, the obvious thing to do is give him away for nothing because the coach won't like him before he ever suits up. Smith facing us was like putting Barry Bonds in a room with a group of sports writers and telling him he can do whatever he wants with no legal repercussions.

Dictator coaches like Skiles tend to have a short shelf life. They start out as inspiring hardass drill sargeants and over the years the palyers get tired of it. Skiles may have been the man in 04-05 but organizations change and different groups of players need different things to be inspired or to maximize the talent on hand. Some coaches are better at rebuilding, others are guys to lead you to a title. Much like Doug Collins, Scott Skiles is not going to be the guy who leads the Bulls to their next title.

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hmmm...
What do you call a diary entry that lacks both merit and original thought?

by Paxson Jackson on Nov 25, 2006 12:51 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

A diary by Paxson Jackson?
Fortunately there aren't many of those.

by theundergroundman on Nov 25, 2006 1:43 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Don't usually agree with PaxJax
But I will on this one.  Aside from the properly punctuated and obviously proofread sentences, there's nothing new here.  Plus, this being your first post is kind of sketchy, too.  The whole post strikes of being written by an agent.

The problem with this Bulls team isn't the coaching, it's the fact that we have 4 players playing out of position for most of the game.  Whether its Hinrich guarding bigger quicker players or Wallace on the other teams centers, guys are relying too much on effort and hustle.  That works fine when you catch somebody by surprise, but the word is out on these Bulls.  They aren't going to catch anybody sleeping anymore and they don't play their best until they are down by 10.

And your point about O'neal is wrong, too.  The Blazers traded him for Dale Davis, iirc, in a "win now" type move.  Dale was a legitimate power forward at the time, so it wasn't a dump.  O'neal wasn't going to get any clock ahead of Sabonas or Rasheed.

by bullshooter on Nov 25, 2006 3:22 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

i'm...
i'm not ready to give up on skiles just yet.  skiles is not the guy out there on the floor playing mediocre defense.  he plays the players he and pax feel necessary for his type of basketball, and they've assembled a team that can do this.  if you fire skiles and try to instill a new system, you're basically giving up on the past several years of rebuilding due to a bad start.  i think that would be premature.  talk to me in january.

by leeac on Nov 25, 2006 9:32 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

Let's give it another 10 more games
What will be the winning percentage for the next ten games.  100%, 70%, 50%, or 30%?

Skiles is still a young coach, hasn't really been tested with hard times as a coach, will he rebound? adjust to changing situations? show flexibility?  Has Pax compiled a "potential" championship roster?  Time will tell?  Yet, the next games might not be enough to determine, but someone needs to deal with this initial critique with more courtesy. If the team, with no injuries, can't make significant improvement from last year then the head rolling flood gates will explode..


theundergroundman is not happy about the first 12 games.. neither is skiles or paxson.  We all have made mistakes, but with time and experience we usually rebound, skiles and/or paxson, with the opportunity will also..

by exult463 on Nov 25, 2006 9:33 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

Motivator Shmotivator
Well said, undergroundman. Skiles appeals to our romantic side as a hard-nosed leader but I think the players have reached their limit with him. No one wants to talk about it but the way he alienated players like Kidd (not exactly a player lacking in "character and commitment") is maybe something Pax really overlooked.

I think Skiles is a brilliant basketball mind (see: nifty plays out of time outs; getting 3rd stringers to play decent) but probably the most important part of being an NBA coach is your ability to motivate. When your supposed leader, Kirk Hinrich, sulks around the court and a should-be benchwarmer like C-Du is the most pepped up guy on court, I think that shows Skiles's theory of rewarding "character" over "talent" is not panning out.

Realistically, though, would there be any way to buy out his contract (a la Knicks and Larry Brown) and find a new coach? Would Reinsdorf do that and who would we get to replace Skiles? [Just a thought!! We talk about trading our core all the time so a little trade/buyout talk about our coach was inevitable:)]

by 98tilunfinity on Nov 25, 2006 9:37 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

anybody else think
It's harder to find a coach as good as Skiles than it is to find some middling talent like the Bulls have?

Hell, he hasn't even had 20 games with this team.

And I can't believe people still think Tim Thomas, career loser, would've done anything for the Bulls last season. I heard Jamal Crawford can shoot too.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 25, 2006 10:40 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

the least these
pathetic fire the coach people can do is offer up a replacement for Skiles. A replacement who can turn a November coach-firing into a good thing.

by Paxson Jackson on Nov 25, 2006 11:06 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

maybe
larry brown would  be interested. oh wait ben wallace  is on our team.  are they in good terms?

by Sambossanova on Nov 25, 2006 11:31 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Rambling too much
This has gotten too long but I feel like I have to first convince you I am not just some sort of chicken little since I do not post a lot. Here goes...

First of all, the Bulls shouldn't have middling talent. They have a bunch of recent high lottery picks on roster and they now have a big free agent superstar center. Either Paxson or Skiles is the person most accountable for this team not taking off. If the talent is middling Paxson has not done a very good job managing his resources. If the talent isn't middling Skiles has done a great job but Paxson just is not getting it done. Matt, are you saying Paxson has not done well? You usually strike me as a Paxson fan.

Maybe I am too much of an optimist but I believe the Bulls have a lot of talent and the problem is Skiles. This is the second straight year they have come out the gate slow and this year they have looked horrible despite adding Wallace and Deng taking a step forward. I know the year is young, there are sample size issues, Skiles could still turn it around. But one of the reasons I posted this now rather than waiting for more losses is that I believe he won't turn us around to more than a .500 team and a low playoff seed. If I'm wrong, I eat crow. Fine. But I believe this team won't turn it around. This team is not losing close games, it's getting killed. And they still can't put together any offense out of the half court set, that is pathetic.

As for Thomas, I don't think he would have been a star for the Bulls. I'm not an idiot. But the team lacked size, he could have been a useful role player at the four. Which is exactly what he was for Phoenix.

Also, what makes Skiles so great? He has coached a  few teams to mid to low seeds in the playoffs. Blame it on the talent if you want to but while you seem exasperated with people recommending Skiles is terminated it is hard to see why you have such overwhelming support for the guy. Sure he is likeable, he gives hilarious quotes, he likes smart players who hustle. Skiles has gotten a lot out of this defense the last few years but the team also has not been able to score and Skiles seems on the verge of alienating the team's best scoring threat. A lot of peole have a bias towards defense over O but really you need both and a coach that can summmon one well but fails to put anything together on the other side of the ball probably isn't a brilliant irreplaceable coach.

Oh and finally I don't think there are a lot of brilliant coaches that are hard to replace. I think any perception that a good coach is as valuable an asset as a good player is driven by looking at poor coaches who have been hired because of their success as a player and/or charismatic personality.

by theundergroundman on Nov 25, 2006 2:49 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Have to disagree again...
The Bulls got some high picks in some pretty mediocre drafts.  And Wallace was a pretty mediocre "top free agent" if you ask me.  He's basically Dennis Rodman without the wedding dress and we got Rodman for Will Perdue...

The worst thing the Bulls have done since the championships was to be mediocre in 2003 when LeBron, Carmelo, and Wade came out.  That draft will shape the NBA for the next 15 years and it was the year we had our lowest first round pick.  In my opinion, the best thing the Bulls could do this year would be to finish with a lousy record, get a top 3 pick (in what's purported to be the best big man draft in the last 20) and develop Sefolosha and Tyrus and Deng and figure out how to get Gordon playing more consistently.  The second best thing would be to beat the Knicks 4 times.

by bullshooter on Nov 25, 2006 3:30 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

You can toss around the
intangibles talk, but at least be halfway right.

Kidd (not exactly a player lacking in "character and commitment")

You are talking about the coach-killing, wife-beating Jason Kidd, right? He's clashed with coaches since college.

by Paxson Jackson on Nov 25, 2006 10:53 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

wow
How times have changed.

by Option27 on Nov 25, 2006 10:30 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

Rookies
I actually think he's being quite patient with the rookies this year. Every time Tyrus Thomas is on the court it's complete offensive poison. And Thabo has turned in some bad games lately as well (especially that Denver game).

I do agree that he needs to cool it with Gordon though.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 25, 2006 10:42 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

One more thought
on this incredibly stupid and Mariotti-esque diary (have I made my feelings on this clear yet?). Coaches and managers are one of the most overrated, in terms of power and importance, positions in sports. Skiles has some faults and Gordon's lack of playing time is one of the more glaring, but there are plenty of teams that have succeeded despite having total dopes (Mike Brown, Nellie, Van Gundy(s), Byron Scott, Flip, etc., etc., etc.) helming the bench. Larry Brown couldn't turn around a terrible Knicks team in one year, how can Skiles ruin a talented and team-oriented Bulls squad in a month?

Stating that the coach should be fired after a bad stretch (Skiles and the Bulls have been there before) is an admission of:

A. Not actually watching the team or NBA basketball in general. You don't know what else to say about the Bulls because your neanderthal imagination isn't capable of conjuring up a decent opinion on the 15 seconds of basketball you have viewed this season.

B. Being a total bonehead who forms opinions based on bonehead, Grabowski sportswriting and radio jabber.

C. You think Soriano is exactly what the Cubs needed for a championship run.

D. Mike Ditka (a coach who actually should have been fired long before he never really left town) holds a special place in your heart, and your 1985 shrine.

Did anyone else notice this diary blames Skiles for trading away J.R. Smith for 'nothing'?

by Paxson Jackson on Nov 25, 2006 12:23 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

neanderthal imagination? etc..
wow! your're a 30pts a night scorer with a pen (keyboard) .... tread carefully with paxjax in the house...

by exult463 on Nov 25, 2006 1:08 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

blah
I made the mistake of responding to you once but, think for a second, you're just being a douchebag. I made a post about what I thought was going on with the team and you callled me a neanderthal moron. Now maybe you disagree with me and that's cool but I'm not at all clear why you were such a dick about it. Chill out man.

by theundergroundman on Nov 25, 2006 2:53 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

That's PaxJax
You gotta take the vitriol with the disparagement...

by bullshooter on Nov 25, 2006 4:31 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Bulls will get better just not live upto the hype
its so obvious what is wrong with the bulls this year
a) we went after a tall gaurd who should be starting against the opposite teams best gaurd buth rather have hinrich doing it and it is taking from his game. duhon should come of the bench and relieve hinrich and thats it.
b) gordon should be the sixth man no matter what. he is pathetic on d he is on off most of the time.
c)skiles plays the five out there until it hits a ten or more defiict and then starts making changes i dont get it.
  the starting lineup is good but i just cant help notice that noc is not driving in as much anymore and i figure he is looking for a huge contract next year but that is really killing us. noone on that team is driving in. yesterday iverson was killing us dooing that
ben wallace had no rebounds no points i cant believe it.
i am happy he is here in chicago but we paid way to much for him just like we did for tyson. its really pathetic. we had the one of the best post players and we let him go (elton brand). we are talking about tim thomas, jr smith come on be serious. those guys are a bunch of scrubs.  anyway i say do a big deal before the deadline.

by glycen on Nov 25, 2006 2:30 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

the last thing this team needs is more turnover
If there is anything I would criticize Pax/Skiles for is the constant revolving door of players.  Basically every year half the roster is new and it takes awhile to mesh.  Its one thing to have experienced players, but its entirely different to have those players be experienced as a team.

but, the hallmark of the East is mediocrity, so the bulls should be fine in the end.  Luckily, Mike Brown is coaching the Cavs.  

I'm sick of my name, damn gwkd.

by GWKD on Nov 25, 2006 3:34 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Amen
The one thing the Bulls have going for it is a coach who can coach in game situations.  Stotts in Milwaukee?  Nope.  Mike Brown?  questionable?  Why is Rick Carlisle considered a great coach?  Saunders?  Please - talent made a difference with him, not his coaching ability.  It took having Sam Casell on the timberwolves to get that team to go far, and then McHale blew that.  Mitchell in Toronto?  hah.

The Van Gundys are not that good.  They're average.  Of course, I hate the Van Gundys on principal - didn't care for the Stu Jackson era at my alma matter.

There are few exceptional coaches in the league.  Very few.  There's a lot that are mediocre.  

by KT on Nov 25, 2006 3:54 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

The
sky is falling, the sky is falling...Chicken Little.

Get a grip boys.

Thabo....the accent is sweet!!

by sue369 on Nov 25, 2006 4:09 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

exceptional coaches
as Jerry Sloan said, it's a player's league.  I don't know how coaching can turn into Wallace's zero rebounds.  But it sure seems that the bad coaches are easy to spot.

The best coaching I ever saw was Phil Jackson for the Bulls in the season after Jordan retired and the bulls were within one terrible Hue Hollins call of a Scottie foul on Hubert Davis of the Finals.

Here's an interesting link on Phil and Tex if you haven't seen it already.

http://www.truehoop.com/los-angeles-lakers-55597-roland-lazenby-almost-gives-tex-winter-credit-for-p hil-jackson.html#discussion

from this:

http://lakernoise.blogspot.com/2006/11/imagine-tex-coaching-with-riles.html

I'm sick of my name, damn gwkd.

by GWKD on Nov 25, 2006 4:13 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Wallace made firing Skiles harder
I don't think we have enough information to make a valid judgement about if Skiles should be fired. His relationship with the players and how he manages the team behind closed doors are key factors that only Paxson and other team insiders would know. However, if Pax had an inclination to make a move now, Wallace took that option off the table with his idiotic headband move. There is no way that Pax can allow a player to publicaly challenge the coach and win. I know that in the past superstars like Magic Johnson have been instramental in getting coaches fired, but Magic never blatently disrespected the coach in a game. Paxson needs to stand behind his coach to maintain team discipline.

by Incognito on Nov 26, 2006 12:37 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Well yeah
Of course there are things that we don't see that impact whether or not Skiles should be fired. I'm just saying based on the things we can see I think Skiles should be fired.

by theundergroundman on Nov 26, 2006 2:13 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

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