Bulls Beat podcast dishes locker room dirt

by Sports2 on Mar 26, 2008 11:19 AM CDT

[ed. note: From the diaries. I heard this podcast myself yesterday and am glad Sports2 has picked up the slack - seems like a recent theme - and did a write-up. I've heard (both from primary and secondary sources, although I have even fewer sources than Doug (Thonus, who's a moderator at the RealGM forum) who does the BullsBeat) some similar and differing things. I agree with Sports2 that Paxson deserves blame, but I also agree with Doug that a great coaching hire would magically fix a lot of things, although not directly. Someone other than Boylan would mean winning, and that fixes most of the 'chemistry' muckedy muck. That and the inevitable drafting of Tyler Hansbrough. -Matt]

[NOTE TWO: If you don't bother listening to the podcast, know that it's repeated many times that while this is based on sources it's not a formal report, and thus should be taken with a grain of salt. -Matt]

After listening to some of the inside dirt dished in the latest Bulls beat podcast (MP3 Direct Link), I sort of reached the conclusion that if things are truly this bad, change needs to occur a the top. Even if only some of it is true, my thinking is that Paxson ought to be canned for letting things become this much of a mess.

To summarize some of the main points I took from this:

Tyrus Thomas is clueless on the court, really isn't trying hard enough, and isn't liked by, well, almost everyone.
Luol Deng wants out.
Nothing new, but Boylan is neither liked nor respected by basically everyone on the team.
Noah has gone to significant lengths to try and develop his skills, and has received very little support from the Bulls.
This seems to be true of almost everyone, and the craziest example to date is that Deng and Noah have apparently hired outside experts to give them extra coaching and film prep because the Bulls aren't doing what they consider enough.
Plopping Gooden and Hughes into featured roles almost immediately rubbed Tyrus, Hinrich and Gordon the wrong may. In Tyrus' case, I don't know that his anger is justified since, at least in my opinion, there are still plenty of minutes available for Ty if he just takes them (since two bigs went out and only one came back in the trade) and since, frankly, Gooden is a much better player.

Hinrich and Gordon have points though. Even throwing out the possibility that they've earned any loyalty from the organization, I simply think they're both better players than Hughes, and they're playing less.

So add it all up...

... and you've got a big-time trainwreck. In the podcast, the suggestion is the only hope for the Bulls is to get a coach in to magically fix all this, but when I look at these problems, they're problems of management, not coaching.

Back to the bigger picture. In the podcast, the suggestion is the only hope for the Bulls is to get a coach in to magically fix all this, but when I look at these problems, they're problems of management, not coaching.

If you've let a situation go on for two coaches now in which players are trying to improve and not getting help, that's a problem of management.

If you've drafted a guy knowing he was surly and prone to not handling pressure well, but you didn't do anything special to create a supportive environment for him, then that's a problem of management.

If you've got players who are known for being good guys who try their ass off, and they're consistently exhibiting disrespect for their coach, you've hired a truly horrible coach and then let him negatively impact the team. In Bulls fandom people often talk about how bringing in the wrong element could harm players' attitudes. Like, bringing in a Zach Randolph or Stephon Marbury type might be a like bringing in a team cancer and a huge mistake. Well, what's a team cancer if it's not Jim Boylan? He's got to be up there with guys like Marbury when it comes to turning a team's attitude in the wrong direction. Just like we'd say it's a mistake by management to bring in a team cancer of a player, it's certainly a mistake to bring in a team cancer of a coach. That's a problem of management.

So add it up, and I don't see how this problem really gets fixed without new management. There are guys out there, like Donnie Walsh, who know what they're doing. Why not pick him up?

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Comments

because Donnie Walsh hasn't done anything

but take Larry Bird's lunch orders the past 5 years.

Fire Boylan!

by hscs on Mar 26, 2008 11:35 AM CDT reply actions

And,

It has pretty much been confirmed that he's going to sign a 3 year, $45 million contract with the Knicks after the season.

by upther on Mar 26, 2008 12:02 PM CDT up reply actions

45 million!

Wow the Knicks spend money faster than Hammer.

The report said 3 years, 15 million which is still damn good money for an executive position.

The Kids Must Stay In The Picture!!!

by NBA Observer on Mar 26, 2008 2:47 PM CDT up reply actions

Good lord, tell me you're joking

You must know at least some minute details about Donnie Walsh. To think he's taking lunch orders from Larry Bird is ridiculous.

The Kids Must Stay In The Picture!!!

by NBA Observer on Mar 26, 2008 2:46 PM CDT up reply actions

Good, you are

http://www.blogabull.com/comments/2008/3/26/12195/5417/8#8

The Kids Must Stay In The Picture!!!

by NBA Observer on Mar 26, 2008 2:49 PM CDT up reply actions

Doesn't sound like Paxson is going anywhere soon

Article by Imrem (who?) at the Daily Herald covered this same topic today. The author thinks Reinsdorf is likely to give Pax at least one more season to right the ship.

I'm willing to give Pax one more season. A lot of things have gone wrong this season and it's not clear to me that Pax is disproportionately to blame for what has happened. As an example, Tyrus was the starter at the beginning of the season and if he remained that way, I don't know if anybody would argue that he needed a more supportive environment than what he has now. Losing has a way of making everybody look bad.

Pax should get one more chance to make this right.

by paxson43 on Mar 26, 2008 11:37 AM CDT reply actions

Let me add

WTF, Tyrus?? It'd be easier to cheer for him if I knew that he was busting his ass in practice everyday. (I finally DL and listened to the podcast and it's pretty depressing)

by paxson43 on Mar 26, 2008 12:10 PM CDT up reply actions

On the Kelly Dwyer's live blog...

...during the sixers game said Thomas took seven practice jumpshots at half-time and 6 were left-handed. I don't remember hearing all these "head case" problems last year. Maybe he's given up. If so, he needs to get his mind changed.

As Sports2 said (and alluded to), not all players are made the same. One of the best attributes of a teacher is his/her ability to adapt to the type of teaching that an individual needs.

Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Mar 26, 2008 12:15 PM CDT up reply actions

Jeez, I agree with you again.

The only thing I might add is that if the coach/teacher is unable, for whatever reason, to connect with a particular player, it's the responsibility of management to see this and take corrective/supportive action.

A problem for the Bulls is that neither Paxson/Skiles nor Paxson/Boylan has responded.

by alec on Mar 26, 2008 12:29 PM CDT up reply actions

how do you...

suggest coaching a jagbag like thomas?

by leeac on Mar 26, 2008 12:49 PM CDT up reply actions

Who knows?

It's hard to say from our standpoint since we don't know him personally (it doesn't seem like the coaching staff/management does either). It easy to say that the Bulls haven't been able to.

Maybe bargain? Talk to him? Maybe he just needs to know someone in the organization cares about him as a person. He came in the league as a recently-turned 20-year-old; it's not unlikely that he still needed emotional development as a person.

He may never be coachable, but from all the info we have (which is, obviously, not everything), it hardly seems like the Bulls have gone to extra lengths to figure him out. And it's their responsibility to themselves to do so.

Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Mar 26, 2008 12:58 PM CDT up reply actions

i think that's my issue

it seems like they haven't gone out of their way to help him. they knew he basically hadn't left his hometown before going to lsu. he obviously still has some growing up to do and it seems like they haven't tried to make him feel comfortable at all.

"Joakim Noah looks like a young Kimberly Williams." - my mom

by Jaina on Mar 26, 2008 1:02 PM CDT up reply actions

i...

think it's a personality issue. i'm sure we don't know all of the facts, like what he eats for breakfast or if he wipes his butt with this left or right hand, but from the insight we get from the media, and from his actions on and off the court, thomas would appear to be a grade-A jackass. it's one thing to be a 19 year old kid fresh off the airplane, but he's been around for a couple years now, he was a jackass then, and he's still a jackass. rather than place the blame on the bulls organization for not holding his hand day and night, there has to be some accountability from thomas to respect the organization that picked his ass on draft day. if the kid had a brain on his shoulders, he should know that there is some entitlement to being a lottery pick, but if he can't put up quality play and be able to learn day in and day out, his job is in jeopardy. if he can't work with the team around him, or if he becomes a clubhouse cancer, his job is in jeopardy. if he doesn't know how to practice or take orders from those in charge, his job is in jeopardy.

how about his family? or his agents? wasn't his uncle or someone from louisiana moving in with him because he had never been away from home? how about his agent that swipes a percentage of each of his paychecks, can these people hold his hand and show him how to play the game called life? if they can't, that probably means he's more of a jackass than we even know.

i think the bulls have made solid, if unspectacular, efforts to hold TT's hand. they brought in AD to help him out his rookie year. i guess it didn't help much? when TT made those comments about the all-star game and getting paid last year, wasn't it the bulls that guided him to say the right things instead of leaving him hanging? didn't the bulls pick up mike brown this year to help TT develop that god-awful running left-hand hook shot? if anything, the bulls aren't communicating with TT on what his role is on this team. or if they are, perhaps this jackass just doesn't care anymore? what kind of coach does it take to tell a kid to take his 15 minutes a game and give everything he has into crashing the boards and freeing himself for putbacks and layups? do you think sloan has a problem telling that to a milsap? at some point, and i'm not saying the bulls have reached that point, but at some point, you toss your hands in the air and call it a loss. if this TT kid, in year 2 of his rookie contract, and after not having earned a DAMNED thing, determines that he can 'skip' a practice or slough off during practice or games, then screw him. drop his unlimited potential ass off at the train station with a one way ticket to E-Rob's house and tell him to flip off. and once he develops AI talent, to come back and the bulls will be more than willing to put up with his type of BS 'bout practice', but until them, his unlimited potential and a bag of chips still equals a bag of chips. unless they're salt and vinegar, in which case, slightly more than just a bag of chips.

sorry tyrus4prez.

by leeac on Mar 26, 2008 1:55 PM CDT up reply actions

sorry

i meant pj brown and not AD.

by leeac on Mar 26, 2008 1:57 PM CDT up reply actions

PJ Brown

had some warm and seemingly genuine things to say about his time mentoring Tyrus. He said these things in a recent interview, after being picked up by the Celtics.

This from the man who had nothing to say, absolutely nothing, about the Bulls organization at that time.

"Duhon, don't make that garbage-time jumper... Save it for the next game!"

by bullhockey on Mar 26, 2008 2:36 PM CDT up reply actions

This is what gives me hope about him.

We didn't have these problems last year.* He wasn't a lone dark spot on an otherwise bright and sunny team.

*If anyone mentions the dunk contest crap, then they're idiots and should just jab their fingers in their own eyes right now.

Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Mar 26, 2008 3:14 PM CDT up reply actions

with...

finger in eye, i'd like to point out TT's public handling of the all star festivites last year as Exhibit A of his ass-hole-osity. for him to belittle the festivities with frank discussion of not giving a sh*t and just getting paid, made me wonder not only if the guy was a jagbag, but it made me wonder if perhaps he didn't even enjoy the game that earns him a living? out of the hundreds of current nba players out there, there have to be AT LEAST a few dozen who don't give a crap about the game of basketball other than receiving the checks with all the zeros at the end. and if this were the case, i'd have to think that TT would fall into that category. a harsh indictment based on limited perception, and i'm willing to swallow it all if he could prove me wrong.

as far as pj brown's glowing comments on TT, if you could cite a link that would be great. i've already fallen off the TT bandwagon, but any glimmers of hope appreciated.

by leeac on Mar 26, 2008 3:30 PM CDT up reply actions

that's weird, my Exhibit A

is whenever someone uses the word 'jagbag'.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 26, 2008 3:39 PM CDT up reply actions

there's a certain...

soothing connotation in order to be able to call someone a jagbag... and since it has no real meaning, i use it as a noun, verb and adjective to suit my own needs. you should try it some time...

for instance:

"matt really jagbagged his assessment of tyrus' minutes."

"matt was a real jagbag in his response to some of the forum posts yesterday."

"matt must have been in a jagbag mood when he wrote his game preview."

see? feeling better already... :)

by leeac on Mar 26, 2008 4:14 PM CDT up reply actions

Here, found it...

http://www.dailyherald.com/story/?id=150203

"Duhon, don't make that garbage-time jumper... Save it for the next game!"

by bullhockey on Mar 26, 2008 3:54 PM CDT up reply actions

sam smith frequently sez

a lot of players aren't into basketball on a love/fun/joy/whatever level, especially bigs, who were more or less forced into the sport.

Does anyone care about the dunk contest?

Chris Webber is the lowpost answer!

by hscs on Mar 26, 2008 4:09 PM CDT up reply actions

Nobody cares about the dunk contest

Why do you think Lebron has never participated in it? Is he a jagbag because of that?

by Big D on Mar 26, 2008 4:54 PM CDT up reply actions

Big D...

i don't think the opinion i'm offering is based on TT's participation or non-participation in the All Star festivies, but TT's lack of respect for the hand that feeds him. I have yet to hear LeBron openly disrespect the NBA's All Star weekend or it's separate competitions, yet this kid can walk in and claim it's just another payday to him? hey, think it, but don't say it. that's where maturity comes into play, and lack of maturity can certainly lead to being perceived as an asshole.

and what exactly is your point big D?... because LeBron doesn't participate in a contest, does that give free reign for the other hundreds of NBA players to openly disrespect it?

by leeac on Mar 26, 2008 5:18 PM CDT up reply actions

Figured you'd be the first ___________

Blah. Thomas said he was going to donate the money to charity BEFORE he was fined. A reporter asked him if doing it for the money was better than being the first Bull to be in teh contest since 1990, better than hanging out with all-stars, etc. He said something like, "Look, man, I'm just doing it for the money."

SNAP!

SCANDAL!

THUG!!!!

Leeac, go jagbag yourself.

Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Mar 26, 2008 5:20 PM CDT up reply actions

i

figure i should expect this type of reply from someone who includes disclaimers in his messages such as:

"*If anyone mentions the dunk contest crap, then they're idiots and should just jab their fingers in their own eyes right now."

i'm not sure where you get your information from, or how you came up with your attempt to "fill in" what you hope the question might have been from the reporters in order to elicit such a response from TT, but at best, it was a weak attempt. then adding in the part about "SCANDAL!" "THUG!", i guess i'm not sure what your purpose was for that? i love reading people's opinions on TT, but for some people, i think it gets a little too personal.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2756552

The first Bulls player since Scottie Pippen in 1990 to participate in the event, Thomas was quoted in Tuesday's editions of the Tribune as saying: "I'm just going to go out there, get my check and call it a day."

When asked if being around some of the game's greats could be beneficial for a rookie, he responded, "I'm just into the free money. That's it. I'll just do whatever when I get out there."

http://www.insidehoops.com/tyrus-thomas-fined-020607.shtml

"The league office has chosen Tyrus to participate in one of its premiere All-Star events and that is an honor that should be accepted with humility," he continued. "I spoke to Tyrus this morning and am confident he understands that he made a mistake with his words and that he also understands the importance of representing the Bulls and the NBA in a positive way."

by leeac on Mar 26, 2008 5:46 PM CDT up reply actions

it's a free world, and a great blog...

so i encourage you to form your own opinions on things such as TT's value (or lack of value) to this team. but i hope you don't take it to heart when there are disagreements like this. at the end of the day, the only reason we're here is because we're bulls fans. disgruntled bulls fans. i've been a TT fan since he was drafted, and i've been willing to overlook signs of his immaturity over the past couple years, but the skipping of practice really irked me. maybe it didn't irk many of you from the response that i'm getting, but it irked me. if i was on the fence, it pushed me over the edge.

in the work world, as many of you know, you come across jagbags once in awhile. and if you have, you'll know that you don't want them working for you, nor do you want to work next to them. people who are in it for themselves tend to bring the quality of work down along with the morale of the group. i hope i'm making some sense with this one. you can carry someone like that for only so long, but after they've worn out their welcome, they need to go. for some reason, that's how i perceive TT. i hope that doesn't upset some of you too much that i think that way, but i'm sure it'll ruffle a few feathers.

bottom line is, that when you see me at the games, i'm still rooting for the same team you are.

by leeac on Mar 26, 2008 5:58 PM CDT up reply actions

Last year, I felt Skiles

was trying to haze him. Stupid.

I think the Bulls have completely missed the boat with Tyrus. They've treated him like an effing army bootcamp recruit. We don't have 100,000 chances to do it over with the next guy. They get one chance, at best (or worst, depending on how they got there), per year to make it work with one guy.

by alec on Mar 26, 2008 2:12 PM CDT up reply actions

bootcamp recruit?

come to practice
learn the offensive plays.
learn the defensive plays.
utilize what you have learned.
go home and spend your millions.

if getting yanked out of a game for f*cking up is a boot camp, then perhaps you are right. but if the kid can't learn, or refuses to learn in order to help the team, then why keep shooting yourself in the foot for him? at this point, i'd take battier for thomas in an heartbeat.

by leeac on Mar 26, 2008 2:35 PM CDT up reply actions

Alright.

So I went to far.

What I was trying to say is the army HAS to treat everybody the same. The Bulls don't, and shouldn't, but seem to anyway.

by alec on Mar 26, 2008 2:39 PM CDT up reply actions

yessir

that's one of my peeves too.

They don't have someone worth completely coddling like the Cavs do with LeBron, but they should see that they traded the 2nd overall pick for a guy, and since his success is more important he should be treated as more important.

The 'earn your way' doctrine isn't even followed regardless, so why pretend.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 26, 2008 2:56 PM CDT up reply actions

mine too

either he's so hopeless emotionally (like at a J.R. Smith level) that they should've never drafted him, or he at least needed a better environment than the one he's given.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 26, 2008 2:14 PM CDT up reply actions

lol!

That is a good question. One thing I'd say for sure is that it's too late for this coaching staff.

I've heard a lot of people say, in effect, "WTF? The guy's a pro. He's making millions of dollars. Get with the program!"

But I disagree. I think Tyrus is a weird guy, and the team will have to go some distance to unlock his (I think, obviously great) physical potential. How they do it, I don't know, but I think in order to do it, they'll have to be willing to be creative, and not just try to stuff him in the same box with every other player.

Maybe I'm delusional, but something tells me Phil Jackson would have been able to come up with some unconventional way to wring the full potential out of Tyrus.

by alec on Mar 26, 2008 1:01 PM CDT up reply actions

One thing I was thinking last night

while watching Drew have another great game, is that he really does seem like a different player than the one in Cleveland. To some extent, he's still in that honeymoonish period (it was an unhappy honeymoon, though! - just trying to say the short time he's been here is not enough to say this will definitely last). I was wondering how much of that does have to do with being told he's an essential part of the offense who will play significant minutes, and that's what it took for him to stay focused throughout the game. I can totally see how playing with someone like Lebron it would be really easy to just coast along without being intensely interested in the game. Tyrus might be the kind of player who needs that same thing - not necessarily a "you're the man" but a we-need-and-trust-you. Obviously I don't know for sure anymore than anyone else, but when what has been tried has so obviously failed it seems obvious they should try something new.

Maybe I'll take up hockey.

by wjb1492 on Mar 26, 2008 1:09 PM CDT up reply actions

Speaking of Drew...

for me, his play has completely taken power forward off the draft list. He plays hard. He looks confident. It looks like his team mates like him. Hell, it even looks like the refs like him. He looks like the best deal Paxson's made.

by alec on Mar 26, 2008 1:22 PM CDT up reply actions

starting to agree

He's averaging 16/10 in the month of March, shooting 50% from the field and 84% from the line in 33 mins/gm. That may not be Boozer or Brand- like numbers, but for his salary that's damn good production. Imagine if we actually had a coach and an offensive system in place that ran some plays for him to get a couple easy buckets each game - that would put him, at least statistically, on the same level as Gasol, Brand, etc.

by kig on Mar 26, 2008 1:34 PM CDT up reply actions

you don't watch the games, either...

they run all kinds of plays for him...

Tyrus Thomas 2006-2008. R.I.P. We hardly knew ya...

by bullshooter on Mar 26, 2008 1:48 PM CDT up reply actions

i'll fess up to that

it's been tough to be motivated to sit at the computer late at night finding a feed, being an out-of-towner.

by kig on Mar 26, 2008 2:00 PM CDT up reply actions

He's good, not great

They do run lots of plays through and for him, but he's not going to be able to dominate like yesterday all the time. He is a slightly above average power forward: Good enough to make rookies and inferior players look bad, but not good enough to hang with the top 10-12 PFs in the league. He (like Tyrus) also problems staying focused through the course of an entire game (especially on defense), which is why he has never averaged more than 30 minutes a game in his career. This is also why he has been traded 3 times. But, I do think that 15/9/1 a game on this dysfunctional team is definitely within his abilities.

by shoryuken on Mar 26, 2008 2:07 PM CDT up reply actions

It's those flashes of actual

potential that get you, though.

He sure dominated his matchup with Boozer.

"Duhon, don't make that garbage-time jumper... Save it for the next game!"

by bullhockey on Mar 26, 2008 2:33 PM CDT up reply actions

i've thought

that we didn't need someone great. just serviceable, which i think drew is. i think next the upgrade has to be at either of the guard positions.

"Joakim Noah looks like a young Kimberly Williams." - my mom

by Jaina on Mar 26, 2008 1:36 PM CDT up reply actions

if we're drafting late lottery

I guess, sure. Gooden's a competent power forward, and if the real need was low-post scorer in any form, he can at least do enough where it shuts up pundits.

But he's not going to do what he did against the Hawks every game (that's not being inconsistent, merely average), and he's a poor and mostly indifferent defender. So if they're relying on him 35+ minutes like he's been getting, they'll be bad, like they're being.

But he can be in a good frontcourt rotation, sure. One thing to note is that his contract may be more valuable than he himself is, so I can see him dealt even if he's 'liked' by the organization.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 26, 2008 2:18 PM CDT up reply actions

You know the season's down the tubes...

...when Matt willingly engages in draft talk. Bleurgh.

Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Mar 26, 2008 2:27 PM CDT up reply actions

heh

it's true. I'm starting to feel draft season...although I still see little point until the lottery.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 26, 2008 2:29 PM CDT up reply actions

I'm not sure Donnie Walsh is any better

To me, no GM is more overrated than Walsh, who GMed the Pacers for 20 years and never landed a superstar. Also, no team has been worse at drafting than the Pacers ( draft history He hasn't drafted a starter since 1998, or an all-star since 1988). There's a reason they had just one Finals appearance and no titles in his tenure.

The thing I like about Paxson is he's shown the ability to change his philosophies, like he did when drafting Tyrus and Thabo when the team lacked athleticism. And unlike crappier GMs, he has taken responsibility for the state of the team.

I'd give Pax another year to work things out. He's got to get some balls this offseason though, this team needs some shakin' up.

by YaoPau on Mar 26, 2008 12:04 PM CDT reply actions

uh

between the Pacers' consistent success, the Bulls, and drafting Reggie Miller, I find it hard to use anything you just put in the comment box against Walsh.

I'm all for pooh-poohing Walsh as a has-been, but his resume is pretty good.

Chris Webber is the lowpost answer!

by hscs on Mar 26, 2008 12:14 PM CDT up reply actions

Depends on what you are grading

Consistently fielding the third best team is nice and probably profitable, but is that what fans are after? One finals appearance in 24 isn't really that impressive.

Tyrus Thomas 2006-2008. R.I.P. We hardly knew ya...

by bullshooter on Mar 26, 2008 1:43 PM CDT up reply actions

it's not super impressive

I don't know what kind of financial restrictions Walsh was under, or any deals/free agents he passed on. I doubt Indiana had the resources to sign Shaq to a ten year deal.

Chris Webber is the lowpost answer!

by hscs on Mar 26, 2008 2:23 PM CDT up reply actions

The big knock on Walsh here (in Indy)

Was that he gave up control when he shouldn't have. He was burned out, his granddaughter passed away, and he was getting older. So he started delegating.

This led to things like following Isaiah Thomas' advice (since he was the coach) in drafting Fred Jones instead of Tayshaun Prince (who was favored by Walsh and the entire scouting department). That's the story I've heard here repeatedly anyway.

Bird came in to slowly take over the reigns and, in the meantime, Walsh got it together and concluded he didn't really want to retire.

So the Pacers had a choice between a guy who's got an expiring contract (Walsh), and a guy they'd picked as the long-term replacement (Bird), who is also under contract for the next two years anyway.

My Blog (Econ/Politics/Sports/NBA Salary Info)

by Sports2 on Mar 26, 2008 2:37 PM CDT up reply actions

Players hiring outside help isn't unusual.

That's why David Thorpe has a job. But okay... during the season?

That's why I'm against finding a coach based on what "system" they run. The Bulls need coaches that can develop these guys into great individual talents, not pound them into some mold to fit a system. If they do that for three years, and these guys develop, but it becomes obvious the coach isn't a great X's and O's guy, then you have these good-to-great players entering their prime to entice another coach.

These players simply aren't good enough right now to be a great team. However, with the draft pick this year, they'll have four guys selected 4th, 7th, 9th & 8/9/10 all under the age of 24 who will all (hopefully) have real potential. Thomas, Noah and Deng are good players RIGHT NOW, and all have the potential, to varying degrees, to be well above-average, even great players. I'm putting very little stock into evaluating any of the players based on this season. (except, of course, Noah since that's all we have for info.)

I was willing to let Paxson go for this season and basically blame it all on Wallace and then Boylan, but the fact that he's let this farce continue so long and hasn't (apparently) privately met with players to let them know what's going on, I have my doubts. My guess now is that the Bulls hire some re-tread for cheap, draft Tyler Hansbrough or Kevin Love, trade Thomas for Shane Battier, lose Gordon because they won't pay him enough, lose Deng because he doesn't want to be there and suck for the next five years with no hope.

Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Mar 26, 2008 12:10 PM CDT reply actions

Absolutely agree.

MJ put Tim Grover on the map. The stories circulating at the time said MJ, Scottie and Horace used to work with Grover everyday they were home during the season.

I think, rather than showing any deficiency on the part of the Bulls, it shows championship caliber desire on the part of Deng and Noah.

Every ambitious person in a competitive field goes outside his/her company for special assistance.

If anything, I'm more disappointed in the rest of the players for NOT seeking outside help.

by alec on Mar 26, 2008 12:24 PM CDT up reply actions

The Most Damning Information Yet

If the podcast is true and Noah and Deng had to hire outside help, this is the most embarrassing revelation about the Paxson regime yet. This team leads the league in attendance and has yet to pay the luxury tax but cannot find a way to hire a staff that can break down tape and help players improve.

In five years, we haven't seen any development in BG's game (still has a poor handle) or Deng's (shot has regressed, while he still hasn't shown improved strength or post-up ability). Tyrus is a mess as the clip from his LSU tournament run makes clear.

In the absence of lucking into a superstar, teams like the Bulls count on incremental progression from season to season. If Paxson cannot identify a staff that can foster an environment that encourages such a progression, he needs to go immediately before the team hires a new coach.

by Gene Banks on Mar 26, 2008 12:14 PM CDT reply actions

Andrew Bogut

works with his personal coach from Australia at his own expense all year long. Getting outside help isn't unusual.

by KT on Mar 26, 2008 12:41 PM CDT up reply actions

The idea of outside help doesnt' bother me

so much, but the idea that there is little to no tape break down does.

I remember during one of the Celtics games they showed Doc Rivers discussing something Rondo had done with him during a TO, and Rondo asking whether it was good or bad - and the broadcast team commented on that beinga great example of teaching, and that Rondo felt comfortable asking for clarification to be sure he understood. Then there were the Bulls' timeouts full of either the Boylan angry cold shoulder treatment or the rah-rah, energy and enthusiasm and heart stuff, and I rarely see one of the coaches for the Bulls going over to talk with someone after they get pulled from the game. It bothered me even in the game setting, but to think that the lack of teaching in-game is not even being offset by good film review sessions is infuriating. Even if they have guys who are several years into the league, the team overall is still the youngest in the nba.

Especially with the guys making the same mistakes over and over in losing 4th quarter leads, you'd think the team would be going over game tape - does Boylan think he doesn't need to because the players comment on not doing the same things in the 4th? Knowing the team is playing differently is so completely not the same as seeing exactly what they're doing wrong and talking through what decisions would have been better.

Sorry I'm ranting. That podcast was just so depressing, and I didn't think the season could get any more depressing than it already was.

Maybe I'll take up hockey.

by wjb1492 on Mar 26, 2008 1:02 PM CDT up reply actions

Yeah

I didn't write it up quite the way I should have. I can imagine going outside for help in general, but having to go outside to get game tape and break it down? What's up with that?

I do question to what extent we're talking about there. I do recall reading that they had regular film sessions under Skiles, so perhaps this is a Boylan "innovation". On the other hand, Noah having to actually ask for a playbook was probably from when Skiles was still around.

Perhaps some of these things have more merit than others, but when I look at the whole mess I have a hard time thinking it's not pretty damning.

My Blog (Econ/Politics/Sports/NBA Salary Info)

by Sports2 on Mar 26, 2008 1:56 PM CDT up reply actions

In an article this summer

on Ben Gordon, he was studying film given to him by the film guys, film he asked for. Truehoop has mentioned that the Bulls subscribe to the state of the art film service that Henry Abbott loves, and was one of the first teams to do so.

So perhaps the issue is what the players want, not the lack of the film study.

From the discussion of this at RealGM, it's clear Doug is hearing these things not from the players, but from other parties. Things get lost in translation.

by KT on Mar 26, 2008 2:03 PM CDT up reply actions

Bulls Inc had a 30+ million net profit last year

according to Forbes. If this "little to no tape" stuff is true it's a major debacle that should be plastered all over ESPN, NBA TV, Comcast Sportsnet.

My $20 operation has video tape. WTF!

The Kids Must Stay In The Picture!!!

by NBA Observer on Mar 26, 2008 2:54 PM CDT up reply actions

i'm willing to give pax one more year

but jeez. while it's not unusual to get outside help, all those factors are ridiculous. as it is, they took until mid-season to finally hire a big man coach which they've been lacking for years.

the whole thing with tyrus is depressing.. it totally sounds as if he has given up. yes there are plenty of minutes for him, but he can't just get on the floor if his coach insists on going small for the entire 4th quarter each game. as for tyrus being rubbed the wrong way, while it may seem like he doesn't have much of a leg to stand on, when he's given more minutes, he has done pretty well, as exhibited in the denver game among others. he's just been jerked around. maybe with a new coach there can be resurrection for tyrus the way it worked for thabo.

ugh. can't wait for this season to be over.. can only hope for a better next one.

"Joakim Noah looks like a young Kimberly Williams." - my mom

by Jaina on Mar 26, 2008 12:48 PM CDT reply actions

I see you've gone all

ee cummings on us. This team has so exhausted you that you can no longer press the caps key?

by alec on Mar 26, 2008 1:05 PM CDT up reply actions

lol

i assume you've read my other posts, but many times i do not use caps. i try to use proper grammar, but only sometimes i use caps. it's weird, sometimes i get in a mode where i decide to type with proper capitalization, but typically i don't. :P

"Joakim Noah looks like a young Kimberly Williams." - my mom

by Jaina on Mar 26, 2008 1:13 PM CDT up reply actions

On one hand,

this franchise's unraveling began with the acquisition of Ben Wallace. Wallace was the proverbial bad apple.To justify obtaining him, the Bulls had to let go Chandler (who had his own flaws, granted). So obtaining Wallace was the beginning of the end.

But a crucial next step in the decline was the acquisition of Griffin at the expense of athleticism/skill.

The other blows to viability have received countless mentions (poor negotiating with BG/Deng being just one).

Bottom line is that hindsight is 20/20, but on the other hand, GM's like Buford and Colangelo (when he was running the Suns) simply don't make mistakes like these. Or else, like Mullins or Colangelo (the one in Toronto) or the Trailblazers' GM (forgetting his name), they make enough good decisions that they avoid having failing seasons--and that's what this is.

I'm on the fence regarding whether Pax should stay or go right now, but if he is fired this off-season, this would not be unfair. It's not as if he wasn't given a chance.

By the way, he also waited too long to jettison Wallace and Grif after their disgraceful season.

"Duhon, don't make that garbage-time jumper... Save it for the next game!"

by bullhockey on Mar 26, 2008 2:47 PM CDT up reply actions

One other note from the podcast . . .

Apparently the Bulls are doing virtually no film study in practice. That's why Deng and Noah hired outside people to help them with that. I don't know what they're actually doing in practice, but they sure aren't working much with Noah. In fact, Doug quotes Ben Wallace, of all people, saying "It's a crime what they've done to Noah."

by Big D on Mar 26, 2008 1:09 PM CDT reply actions

Boylan is working on

Building relationships and teaching Kirk Hinrich on how to be a better leader, not to mention film study on how his lineups couldve worked if such-and-such happened, followed by a discussion on how the last talk with paxson pushed him one step forward on the path of losing the interim title.

Kirk Hinrich. The FORMER Best White American Point Guard in the NBA, Will Soon be Traded :(

by piccolomair on Mar 26, 2008 1:14 PM CDT up reply actions

Yeah, um, with all due respect to

"Doug," whomever he may be, that sounded like a bunch of titillating, sensationalist speculation to me.

LSU 38 OHIO STATE 24 - LSU IS THE NATIONAL CHAMPION AND I AM THE KING OF BOURBON STREET!!

by 1958ChiTown on Mar 26, 2008 1:29 PM CDT reply actions

don't you also complain about the

spineless beat reporters?

(well, somebody does)

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 26, 2008 1:53 PM CDT up reply actions

::raising his hand::

by alec on Mar 26, 2008 2:14 PM CDT up reply actions

he's a message board moderator

Satisfied? ;)

It is pretty sensational, but there's been enough negative rumblings from post-championship players about the Bulls that I'm inclined to believe the organization doesn't have a handle on making its employees happy. Brand didn't want to stick around, Oakley called the org a "prison," P.J. Brown asked out, Antonio Davis never returned as promised, and the current group's issues don't seem to be any different.

While individual reports like the podcast could easily include bogus, or exaggerated information, there's definitely a trend that started before Paxson even had the job.

Chris Webber is the lowpost answer!

by hscs on Mar 26, 2008 2:02 PM CDT up reply actions

as I mentioned in a previous post

Doug is reporting things from an indirect source.

Sam's spoken about communication issues before ,so I'm going to email him and ask about it. He's an employee of the Trib until April 1.

by KT on Mar 26, 2008 2:05 PM CDT up reply actions

yup

I know, and he tried to say "grain of salt" a few times.

Chris Webber is the lowpost answer!

by hscs on Mar 26, 2008 2:14 PM CDT up reply actions

I thought I used the right words

to indicate that this is merely speculation.

And if you listened, Doug says many a time that 'sources' have agendas too.

As HSCS said, there's a trend.

Over the years there seems to be two types of descriptions regarding the Bulls organization: the one that lavishly supports their players in terms of off-court accomodations, and the one that completely non-supports them in terms of on-court development and discipline.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 26, 2008 2:22 PM CDT up reply actions

You have a point re:

the organization.

I should have been more clear, I was referring to the portions of the podcast about TT's alleged indolence and ignorance.

LSU 38 OHIO STATE 24 - LSU IS THE NATIONAL CHAMPION AND I AM THE KING OF BOURBON STREET!!

by 1958ChiTown on Mar 26, 2008 6:00 PM CDT up reply actions

Coaching fix vs. Managing fix

I don't think the right coach could fix these problems for a couple reasons.

1. Even granting that the coach could come in and magically fix things, the right coach has to be hired. First, there are a whole lot more bad coaches out there than good coaches. Second, out of the guys that are "good coaches" you have to eliminate the guys who have some combination of a) cost too much, b) don't believe in the right kind of style for the players we have.

Finally, Paxson has to pick that guy amongst all the options, and if the organizational stuff laid out by Doug is true, he must not see that much of a problem with the "let the players develop themselves" model of things in the first place.

2. I don't grant that a coach could come in and fix the problems.

First, I don't see how a coach is going to suddenly make Tyrus "comfortable" (or whatever it is he needs to get). At this point it looks to me like the organization, not just the coaches have given up on him. It'll be the organization that needs to build bridges that have been burned down. And I don't see any reason to think Pax is the guy to do that.

Second, a coach is going to face the same roster issues we face now. A good team is built to minimize the sort of conflicts of interest we see with the Bulls (having too many players competing for limited minutes, and with big contracts on the line or in hand). Someone needs to make the right roster moves. And while he's certainly done some good things, his scorecard over the last couple years is trending very negative. And some of his better moves from his first couple years don't look quite as good in the longer run.

I think a coach could get this team to play better, but I don't look at this team as a contender even with greatly improved play.

To be real contenders I think the Bulls would need something like an amazing trade or a miraculous improvement from Thomas. And we need to sign the right players to contracts we don't regret within a year. I don't look at Paxson as the best guy to get any of those things done.

Really, it all comes down to that- who's the best choice going forward- not what we "owe" to someone in the past.

My Blog (Econ/Politics/Sports/NBA Salary Info)

by Sports2 on Mar 26, 2008 1:41 PM CDT reply actions

I think it's harder to find a good GM

than a good coach. And Paxson is at least 'meh' at this point.

It seems like part of the problem is the disconnect between management-coaching-players. So it's possible that the players are feelin better about Pax than the completely tuned-out coaching staff.

Which reminds me, they have to fire the entire staff. Yes, the great Pete Myers too. Maybe keep Mike Brown if he's done anything worthwhile.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 26, 2008 2:31 PM CDT up reply actions

Where the hell are the beat writers?

I can't believe that we haven't heard any of this stuff through the local media.

by paxson43 on Mar 26, 2008 1:57 PM CDT reply actions

yeah right

since when has KC or Hanley ever given REAL locker room insight?

by NormVanBeer on Mar 26, 2008 2:17 PM CDT up reply actions

Deng wants out? Wish granted

I can't help feeling that the best roster move this offseason isn't drafting some other 20 yr old (you've brainwashed me Matt), but to trade Deng. If he wants out (however suspect the reporting is on that), let's get him out while others in the league might still think highly of him and not realize his body will probably break down in 3-5yrs. Maybe NJ will bite for Jefferson in a sign and trade? Their thinking that Deng will be in his 'prime' when they make a run at LBJ with Carter off the books, and we get RJ, who really is a consistent 20pt scorer who gets to the line, can post up and hits clutch shots.
That's the type of move Pax needs to make to shake things up.

by kig on Mar 26, 2008 2:16 PM CDT reply actions

I have a hard time blaming Paxson

for Skiles asking to be fired and replacing him with the guy who probably knew the current system the best, especially when they might still have a chance to live up to the preseason expectations. Would you really want to bring a totally new guy with a different system. Boylan can be blamed for not fixing the problems or adapting the system to the evolving players, but the problems were there when he started.

I also don't blame Paxson for not overpaying for Deng and BG. It might have smoothed things over for a while, but how much would it have taken and what would the ramifications be down the line? Would it cause similar problems with the Thabo or Noah signings? And would these problems have manifested themselves down the line. If BG was making his 15+ mil, would he accept coming off of the bench?

Tyrus Thomas 2006-2008. R.I.P. We hardly knew ya...

by bullshooter on Mar 26, 2008 2:31 PM CDT reply actions

heh, maybe he would

since in that case he'd be getting paid anyway. Nice strawman though.

I don't miss Skiles either, just blame Paxson for not explicitly telling Boylan what's what, system be darned.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 26, 2008 2:36 PM CDT up reply actions

Skiles has to be laughing his ass off at this

People complained about firing him on Christmas Eve, but maybe that was actually his Christmas gift from the Bulls, as a reward for all he did for the organization. Now he still gets paid, but he doesn't have to put up with all this shit anymore.

by Big D on Mar 26, 2008 2:39 PM CDT up reply actions

I see people saying give Pax one more year

Considering that the Bulls already have to hire a new head coach, though, wouldn't it make more sense to let a new GM make the choice? Let's say Paxson hires a new coach, and the Bulls suck again next year. In that case, Paxson might very well be gone. And what's the first thing a new GM usually does? Most of the time, he brings in his own head coach. Do you really want to risk having that much turnover over the next few years? I think it makes more sense to start fresh from the top on down.

by Big D on Mar 26, 2008 2:37 PM CDT reply actions

that makes sense

only if you think the bulls should shuffle all their players too. I don't. I don't see a need to move a whole lot of players either.

Tyrus Thomas 2006-2008. R.I.P. We hardly knew ya...

by bullshooter on Mar 26, 2008 2:41 PM CDT up reply actions

It's sensible practice

to let the GM get two head coaching hires before canning him.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 26, 2008 2:54 PM CDT up reply actions

Sixers and Stefanski

New hire gives present coach a contract extension but asks him to extend the roster to see more diversified minutes. Results = hottest team in the NBA.

Jim Boylan is no Mo Cheeks.

The Kids Must Stay In The Picture!!!

by NBA Observer on Mar 26, 2008 2:59 PM CDT up reply actions

I'd think he either gets a few years or no years

For just those reasons. In reality I expect Mike Imrem is right. I'd be pretty surprised if Pax is canned. I see a small chance that he could just say "screw it" and step away himself.

But I expect him back, and I expect he probably gets the rest of his contract to turn things around. Given the length of rope Reinsdorf gave Jerry Krause, it'd be pretty surprising to see otherwise. Plus he'd be paying both Pax and Skiles to sit at home.

If I had to guess on the direction of things, I'd say:

A coach like Carlisle looks increasingly likely. Given the various roster logjams and morale issues, I think it'd be a tough situation for a "hot assistant" like Thibodeau to walk into. I think Pax would want someone with experience and a credibility coming in.
Tyrus Thomas is traded.
Ben Gordon takes the QO. Don't see a big market for him, but don't see it as a very happy relationship next year either.
Deng is resigned for slightly above what he was offered last year, which will be slightly more than he probably deserves.

What I really have no sense of is what the Bulls would or could do with a trades that really accomplish anything. One direction to go in is to blow it up and acquire more picks, and hope one becomes a star but that implies a step back I don't think Pax... especially Pax on the hot seat... will want to take.

On the other hand, you could acquire a "star" and hope he changes the dynamic of things. But most of the available stars are guys with significant issues in the injury or attitude department the Vince Carter, Gilbert Arenas, Elton Brand, or Jermaine O'Neal types. This seems like a likely move for a GM trying to save his job, since you could expect a guy like that, even if he doesn't get us over the hump, might give us a boost.

A third way might be to try and hold the fort and do little to nothing, clear a moderate amount of cap space, and start marketing the team to the 2010 free agent class. Use Tyrus to get Nocioni off the books and drive the hardest bargain you can with Deng and Gordon, knowing you can probably only keep two of Deng, Gordon and Gooden. Best case scenario is you go into 2010 with something like

1- Hinrich
2- Hughes, Thabo
3- Deng
4- Gooden, 2008 1st Round pick
5- Noah

And cap room to entice a major player.

My Blog (Econ/Politics/Sports/NBA Salary Info)

by Sports2 on Mar 26, 2008 3:00 PM CDT up reply actions

What about dealing with Seattle?

Do they want more youth and the same old bunch of crap they had with Ray Allen and Rashard Lewis? Maybe they'll part with a pick, dump a contract on us, and take on Ben Gordon. If not Gordon, Hughes? Hinrich?

I think the questions we have is a stage that is replicated in Seattle, Memphis and Miami. The four teams could do almost anything. I'll throw in the Knicks as well since they always do something living in permanent luxury tax land.

The Kids Must Stay In The Picture!!!

by NBA Observer on Mar 26, 2008 3:05 PM CDT up reply actions

I think Seattle and Memphis

want to be cheap and lose for the forseeable future, while selling hope through draft picks. (works for some!)

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 26, 2008 3:09 PM CDT up reply actions

Seattle doesn't even want to sell hope

They want to lose as much as possible, so the city decides to give up the lawsuit and let them move.

by Big D on Mar 26, 2008 5:49 PM CDT up reply actions

I don't see any grab for draft picks

which I don't want anyway.

I also don't like your guess as to what will happen, but sadly I can see that being more likely.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 26, 2008 3:08 PM CDT up reply actions

Depressing roster

I'm so used to seeing Tyrus slotted into the 4 in all projections of the future Bulls line-up (along with his projected 25-14-4 blk average) that I actually did a double-take when I looked at your line-up. Then I got bummed out. Ugh.

Matt said that Ty was the most important player on the Bulls roster in a thread recently and I agree. It's really sad to hear that said important player is running himself out of town (if Doug can be believed, that is...).

by paxson43 on Mar 26, 2008 3:26 PM CDT up reply actions

No video tape?

This cannot be true. A professional sports club with no video tape?

The Kids Must Stay In The Picture!!!

by NBA Observer on Mar 26, 2008 2:52 PM CDT reply actions

didn't really feel like listening

to the podcast...but is that true about deng? he wants out of chicago? i thought he was regretting not signing a deal, or is that bullshit,too.

Thanks for this post, sounds like the bulls need an overhaul. they need an entirely new coaching staff, and maybe a team shrink or something.

Like i have said before, as many have on here, tyrus is just immature. (sidenote, i just turned 25, so the glory days of being 21 are still fresh in my mind. Frankly speaking, i was an idiot but acted like i knew what was going on, but really had no idea. and thats because of immaturity. now i am not saying four years is a ton of time, but to me it seems like an eternity. i still have a TON to learn, but i have learned more about life, people and relationships in the 3 years i have been out of school than i ever did during the 22 years i was growing up. i am almost a completely different person now. its crazy how that works. i think that might be a little of what tyrus is going through. in his eyes he is right, and everyone else is having the problem. just sounds like he needs a little prespective and some psychdelic mushrooms....hah) everyone knew he was going to be a project from day one, and immaturity comes with the territory.
but anway...
speaking of development, it is my belief that the player and the coaching staff and management need to meet half way. You can't put it all on the players, because when they are young, they are raw, and need guidance. But the coaches and gm arent there to baby sit and coddle them like they are preschoolers. they must share in the responsibility. thabo was always going to grow faster than tyrus, but hopefully within the next two years he will flourish and take the bulls to that next level.
sorry for the nostaglia

by Conor on Mar 26, 2008 3:11 PM CDT reply actions

About Tyrus

Reportedly, he lives in the suburbs with his uncle. So he has family around to assist him. The NBA travel schedule is almost hellish. For a kid like Tyrus this can be overwhelming to say the least.

The Kids Must Stay In The Picture!!!

by NBA Observer on Mar 26, 2008 3:34 PM CDT up reply actions

Here's what

we need to do. I dont like it but this would help us big time.

Trade Hughes and TT for something we can send home or throw on the end of the bench.

Draft OJ Mayo.

Offer Deng the same Deal because Paxson is an honorable man. Deng signs.

Offer BG the QO. He signs because no S&T is going to be out there and BG thinks he's MJ and needs 20 ml a yr.

Start talking to DG's agent about an extension. (have him loose some of that Cleveland fat he's carrying around.)

Hire Carslisle for whatever Pax is signed on for.
(maybe 2 more years)

Dump Nichols, Duhon.

Can the rest of the current coaching staff including this new BIGS coach Brown.

New Roster and starting line up..

Capt. K
Thabo
Deng
Gooden
Noah

Mayo
BG
Noc
C Simmons
Gray

J Curry
S Brown

Just a thought.....

One side note. 2 things i would like to see or try.

1. Have TT bring the ball up when hes in the game. He's got handles and that seems to be the only time he will run like the gazell he is.

2.RUN TYRUS RUN! Skiles was right. I watched his 9 min last night very very carefully and only once did he run the floor in transition ( thats right the one time he took the ball up)

Maybe Paxson can put my dogs shock collar on him and when he doesnt run just give him a little ZAP... That'll make his ass run...

by Bulls4Ever on Mar 26, 2008 3:33 PM CDT reply actions

Thomas and Hughes

do not appear to know what it means to run the fast break, identify a lane, and space the floor to stay in it get your hands up and get ready to catch the ball.

The Kids Must Stay In The Picture!!!

by NBA Observer on Mar 26, 2008 3:43 PM CDT up reply actions

by TT bringing up the ball, do you mean

Thabo? I'm guessing not Thomas since you axed him in the offseason. And you really want our big man rotation to be Gooden/Noah Simmons/Gray?? You're kidding, right? What exactly is the plan here? I don't see how this would help the team at all, either next year or for the future.

Along with the obvious new coach/system, going hard after a reliable veteran all-star should be a priority if we want to get back into the realm of being relavant. I think we can use TT, BG, Noce, Gooden and even Deng as bait to put a lineup like this on the court:

Hinrich
Sefolosha
R Jefferson
Brand
Noah

Draft smart at the PF/C spot, maybe pry away lowry from the Grizz as a backup pg and sign a decent FA wing for the mid-level.

by kig on Mar 26, 2008 4:02 PM CDT up reply actions

What I meant

was "On a side note. 2 things i would like to see or try in the next however many games."

1. I would like to see Tyrus bring the ball up. He can be successful doing so.

I axed TT and hughes because it seems to be a forgone conclusion that TT is gone and I just hate Larry Hughes.

Trust me it hurts to even write that about TT. Im one of his biggest fans.

The truth is if he leaves its gonna hurt worse that Chandler/ Brand/ Artest/ Miller. He's that good. He just needs a dam coach and a better suited system to coach him up and play to his strengths.

Ow and whoever said they run plays for TT is out of his/her mind..

Screw KC Johnson he's a joke of a reporter.

BTW I really hope you dont think EB is or would ever come back to Chicago. Also RJ talks mad trash about the Bulls and personally i think he's no better than Deng.

i do like Lowry though and drafting smart.

Good call on that..

by Bulls4Ever on Mar 26, 2008 4:40 PM CDT up reply actions

I don't have

time to listen to the podcast but when you are talkinga about them not getting any film are you talking individual player or as in watching film as a group?

by sue369 on Mar 26, 2008 4:06 PM CDT reply actions

it wasn't clear

but I do recall Duhon was late for a film session last season.

Chris Webber is the lowpost answer!

by hscs on Mar 26, 2008 4:10 PM CDT up reply actions

Also earlier

in the season when Tyrus was out shooting baskets by himself before a game when he was suppose to be in watching films with the rest of the team. One of the coaches had to go get him.

by sue369 on Mar 26, 2008 4:50 PM CDT up reply actions

It seems like

they do have footage of some kind, but perhaps they don't tailor it for individual players and a group film session would be highlights that don't really involve players like Noah much. Maybe the film sessions are footage of the opposing team getting guys ready for match ups. Who knows. I wouldn't be surprised if guys payed someone to make tape edited just for them if the organization doesn't bother to do that.

by cranscape on Mar 26, 2008 5:05 PM CDT up reply actions

KC Johnson on the Score today

Was asked about Tyrus (find it here if you dare).

He echoes that Tyrus hasn't learned the system or worked hard enough for coaches. Also said that he hasn't progressed as a player (not true, IMO). Added that Paxson was 'livid' at the missed practice, and that sealed the fate of Tyrus in terms of being dealt this offseason. He gone.

Of course, later KC said that he lost faith in Boylan returning after finding out that even the great effort king, Nocioni, snapped at him. Yet never put the two together that maybe Tyrus 'snapped' because of Boylan as well.

This also makes it seem like Paxson is an idiot who's enjoys the emotionally-driven panic-trade, which I doubt. Plus KC was a big Ben Wallace fan, so factor that in this interpretation.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 26, 2008 4:09 PM CDT reply actions

i also don't agree

that he hasn't progressed. his shot looks a lot better.

and maybe all those things are true, but i hope they don't get rid of him yet. i think it'll really come back to bite them in the ass.

"Joakim Noah looks like a young Kimberly Williams." - my mom

by Jaina on Mar 26, 2008 4:13 PM CDT up reply actions

Ugh

That was a brutal audio clip. North is craptastic and even worse when he's bagging on Thabo.

by paxson43 on Mar 26, 2008 5:45 PM CDT up reply actions

That gets back to the point I made earlier

Boylan typically gets faulted for not playing Tyrus enough, but look at the evidence.

Even if some of these reports aren't completely accurate, you've got Doug, KC and Sam all saying that Tyrus has checked out on the organization and the organization has checked out on him.

A new coach ain't gonna cut it, and it's hard to blame Boylan for not playing a guy that John Paxson has apparently given up on.

And further, the failure of Tyrus here is almost totally on Paxson. I don't mean by that that Tyrus is excused for being an idiot. He is an idiot and that's on him.

What I mean is that Paxson knew about his personality and issues going in. So if you aren't going to make allowances for that, and by that I mean major allowances and put in major work to make this kid feel at home and to prevent him from going into a shell, then you shouldn't have drafted the guy.

Smith summed it up in a mailbag a couple weeks ago as saying something to the effect that the Bulls knew they'd have to deal with this, but were nonetheless surprised by it when push actually came to shove and they were confronted by the immaturity and foolishness of the kid they drafted.

In short, they screwed the pooch and weren't willing to do whatever it took to make it work. At this point, a new coach ain't gonna change that.

My Blog (Econ/Politics/Sports/NBA Salary Info)

by Sports2 on Mar 27, 2008 8:35 AM CDT up reply actions

That wasn't much of a podcast

can we get a hint who you're sources are? I know Aaron Gray's agent pretty well, does that make me an insider?

Tyrus Thomas 2006-2008. R.I.P. We hardly knew ya...

by bullshooter on Mar 26, 2008 4:10 PM CDT reply actions

your

i'm sleepy...

Tyrus Thomas 2006-2008. R.I.P. We hardly knew ya...

by bullshooter on Mar 26, 2008 4:11 PM CDT up reply actions

it beats Bullscast

Are those jokers still around? It'd be fun to do a podcast, but the typed word is way more efficient.

Chris Webber is the lowpost answer!

by hscs on Mar 26, 2008 4:13 PM CDT up reply actions

gave up quickly on Bullscast

but Bulls Beat gets my stamp of approval. Not necessarily for 'inside info', but just in evaluation Doug knows his stuff. I think he works in some capacity for DraftExpress.com as well.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 26, 2008 4:16 PM CDT up reply actions

*analysis

(better word than 'evaluation')

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 26, 2008 4:18 PM CDT up reply actions

if I ever get enough inside info

to actually report something, or even speculate something (did I at the top? not intentional if so), I'll let ya know. Also I should take a journalism class.

In the meantime ask yours why Gray can't cut his hair.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 26, 2008 4:14 PM CDT up reply actions

it goes better

with his pouty face when he doesn't get his minutes...

Tyrus Thomas 2006-2008. R.I.P. We hardly knew ya...

by bullshooter on Mar 26, 2008 4:26 PM CDT up reply actions

It goes better

with mouthing off at the head coach. And fighting authority in general.

"Duhon, don't make that garbage-time jumper... Save it for the next game!"

by bullhockey on Mar 26, 2008 4:57 PM CDT up reply actions

probably

for the same reason that Noce can't cut his...he's been sporting the Shaggy look all season. He usually gets it cut at least once or twice. His barber must have gotten mad at him and threw a hot towel

http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/afp/20070430/capt.sge.twc34.300407133222.photo01.photo.default-387x4 94.jpg

by NormVanBeer on Mar 26, 2008 4:59 PM CDT up reply actions

If this report is to be believed....

...then how in the world can the organization complain about Tyrus Thomas not developing? I've long thought we needed an overhaul...even during the "fairy tale" season we had last year. We maxed out last year and this team as currently constructed will NEVER win a championship. Sounds like it's time to blow it up all over again. This is killin' me!!!

by lexdiamonds0730 on Mar 26, 2008 4:50 PM CDT reply actions

Unfortunately....

...the blow up the team thing isn't as easy as it seems. Wow, what do we do?

by lexdiamonds0730 on Mar 26, 2008 4:52 PM CDT up reply actions

Here's what:

Buy out Larry Hughes. No matter what happens, this is one move that will not come back to haunt the Bulls.
Dedicate to developing Tyrus Thomas. Even if he doesn't fit long term, develop the guy enough to get a decent trade value for him.
Fix the team chemistry issues. Wallace and Grif are gone, while Noc and Noah are still here. Phil Jackson would do things like bus trips to the Statue of Liberty. These things seem cheesy but they need to be done. Quarentine Tyrus Thomas if you have to (but stay dedicated to developing him!).
Bring in a head coach with creativity on offense. Even though Reinsdorf has put out statements about this being a defensive team first. The two do not have to be mutually exclusive.
The Deng and BG situations will basically resolve themselves one way or another. If BG leaves, though, the Bulls will really miss that 20 or so ppg. So the Bulls need to:
Go get a superstar. This takes luck. Become lucky, then just go get one.
And lastly, don't wake me from my day dreams like the extended one I'm having for this list.

"Duhon, don't make that garbage-time jumper... Save it for the next game!"

by bullhockey on Mar 26, 2008 5:06 PM CDT up reply actions

Pax missed the boat already.......

The Kobe BS at the beginning of the season was used as a reason for their bad play at start. The Gasol rumors were used also.... Now they are in the same boat.

by BiNgO on Mar 26, 2008 6:09 PM CDT up reply actions

Why buy out Hughes?

Would you walk away from two seasons at 14 million a year? You can't buy him out, you can bench him, you can give him 28 million and release him, but your not buying him out right after you traded for him four weeks ago and he's your highest paid player. Thats the NBA baby, either live or die by your contract. Hughes earned his, Cleveland overpaid, thats show biz.
Cleveland gave him 60 mil plus for 5 years, moved him from shooting guard to point and that was not what he was promised in the deal. He still played in the finals through his brothers death (heart transplant), wife's brain aneurysm last summer. He is a class act, give him a chance. Chicago says, they will put him at the shooting guard not point, but don't make a call on buying out a contract after playing a player four weeks with a whole new team. You think Cleveland is jumping up and down with their new crew? They would take Hughes back now. One night its all trades, get rid of this guy, then they have a good game, and everyone one says start them (like we are playing varsity high school). Their giving Gordon more minutes anyway, in this league, it's minutes, not starting. Hughes needs 35-40 minutes twice a week or he won't have his shot down. You won't see the 30-40pt games. Then look at who is finishing the game. He's a streaky player, if you can't pull that from 10 years in league, you do need a new GM. They have a plan for this summer, and it's going to have Hughes compliment someone, I say look for Arenas, for they are best friends and will Arenas will play for less to play together and win. He is out of Washington. Now you will have a star player in Chicago, which is needed badly. None of these young guys look to be a superstar no matter how many years you keep them. This season is over, I wouldn't take anything away from these last few weeks (they players know that) or do you think you got a shot at the division? It was over when you named a interim coach.

by Homegrown on Mar 28, 2008 4:43 PM CDT up reply actions

for christ's sake, people

rome was not built in a day

by Conor on Mar 26, 2008 5:01 PM CDT reply actions

That was the worst possible

analogy for this diary, and focus. Kill yourself.

"to the children: Fuck the Bulls." - Matt

by NittanyBull on Mar 26, 2008 5:08 PM CDT up reply actions

If I put together a complete timeline and use a black and white approach to every Paxson decision I suspect it will return a greater number bad moves than good moves even correcting for retrospect.

The Kids Must Stay In The Picture!!!

by NBA Observer on Mar 27, 2008 3:47 PM CDT reply actions