Gooden needs to start, and this needs to be the rotation
Starting lineup:
C- Noah
PF- Gooden
SF- Deng
SG- Hughes
PG- Hinrich
6th man- Gordon
7th man- Nocioni
3rd big- Tyrus
9th man-Thabo
backup pg- Duhon
reserve big- Gray
*THAT SHOULD BE OUR ROTATION. 9 OR 10 GUYS AT MOST, AND THE MAIN 7 SHOULD ABSOLUTLEY BE NOAH, GOODEN, DENG, HUGHES, HINRICH, GORDON, AND NOCIONI. PERIOD. TYRUS IS THE FIRST BIG OFF THE BENCH. THABO COMES IN ROLE FILLING OUT THE END OF the 9 man ROTATION AND DUHON IS BACKUP PG, GRAY IS PART OF IT WHEN WE PLAY BIG TEAMS LIKE THE ROCKETS.
*There is absolutely no way that Gooden shouildnt be starting. It is a joke if he doesnt, we need a lowpost option so bad and we now have one. He needs to start, he gives us that dimension. He is the best lowpost scorer we've had in YEARS. Once the Bulls realize what they have in him this team could be BETTER than we were LAST YEAR. All he needs to be is the 3rd or maybe even 4th option on offense and it is mission accomplished. It will keep the defense honest and open up everything for our perimeter talent (That previously only had to be played against one way), that is a GREAT THING. We should have Gray come in for him for a couple minutes here or there too against big teams, that way we have a post option to keep the defense honest at all times, unless we're going small for 10 minutes where Tyrus can post up smaller forwards like say Al Harrington or Kevin Durant.
*Tyrus is a small forward, a tweener. I understand eveyrone wants to be happy and get high on the young guy, but we have a good chance of going on a tear with the roster we have and getting that 6 seed... we need to WIN. The Warriors wer 25-37 last year before winning out bigtime and getting to 42 wins.
*Tyrus is a quick-forward, if you want him starting he shoujld be taking Dengs spot (YEAH RIGHT), which could be an option until Deng is 100% but is absolutely not an option once he is 100% healthy. Tyrus should be our 3rd big, getting 20 minutes a night rotating in as the frirst big off the bench behind Noah and Gooden. Our PF when we go small as well.
*I know there is a logjam but Boylan needs to do what it takes to win, not what it takes to make this team happy. I really beieve with what we got that we could go on a 19-8 tear to finish the year and get to 41 wins, possibly getting the 6 seed and getting a 2nd roudn matchup. THAT WOULD BE GREAT! If we can land the pistons than we have a good shot at beating them as well, we're a matchup nightmare for them espevcially now that we have Gooden and Hughes.
*Boylan is not doing his job if Gooden isnt starting. IT IS AN ABSOLUTE JOKE to not have him starting. A lineup of Hinrich/Hughes/Deng/Gooden/Noah with Gordon as 6th man and Tyrus and Nocioni and thabo as the main guys off the bench supported by Gray as backup center against big teams and Duhon as reserve pg each could REALLY REALLY THRIVE. THAT IS WHAT NEEDS TO BE DONE........ If Boylan goes the other way trying to make everybody happy and not doing what is best for the team to win than he FAILS. And he definitely shouldnt be back next year if that is the case.
*Lets get real here, with a Tyrus/Noah frontcourt we have no post option and are vastly outsized. If Thabo is starting at the 2 we have no one that gets to the foul line and creates a penalty, we have a severely offensively challenged lineup and his defense isnt quite as good as Hughes either! Thabo should be getting good minutes in our 9 man rotation as a roleplayer that is developing. That is good and allows us the best chance of winning.
*I DONT THINK YOU GUYS REALIZE JUST HOW GOOD A HINRICH/HUGHES/DENG/GOODEN/NOAH LINEUP WITH BEN AS 6TH MAN CAN BE. I REALLY DONT THINK YOU REALIZE HOW GOOD IT WILL BE.
*Then we have a very good and deep bench in reserve filling out our rotation in roles helping the team win: Thabo, Noce, and Tyrus. Duhon and Gray in reserve. Not only is that starting 5 much better offensively, but is also much more well-rounded and is FILLeD WITH GOOD DEFENDERS!!! The only thing that could knock is that Gooden is a average team/help defender, but is a MUCH BETTER man/lowpost defender than any PF we have.
*GOOD REBOUNDING, GOOD SIZE, VERY GOOD DEFENSE, BETTER GETTING TO THE FOUL LINE, AND ARE MUCH BETTER OFFENSIVELY WITH 5 OPTIONS INSIDE, OUTSIDE, SLASHING, MIDRANGE, ETCETERA...... WHAT IS NOT TO LIKE?!?! GOT TO MAKE IT HAPPEN BOYLAN. THAT IS THE RIGHT WAY TO GO ABOUT IT IN ORDER TO WIN. I cant believe how many people actually think differently. 2 good units, depth shouldnt be a problem it should be a strength. IF BOYLAN SCREWS IT UP TRYING TO MAKE PEOPLE HAPPY AND NOT MAKING THIS ROTATION RIGHT THAN HE SHOULD ABSOLUTELY NOT BE BACK NEXT YEAR!!!! DONT BE NICE!!!!! JUST WIN!!!!!
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123 comments
Comments
your shift key got stuck
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 26, 2008 12:53 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
blabba blabba blabba blabba
by tyger1147 on Feb 26, 2008 12:55 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Sorry
by Deng is the next Bull superstar on Feb 26, 2008 12:56 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
There's
by sue369 on Feb 26, 2008 1:12 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I agree that
Not sure if I'd rather have Sef or Hughes start. I kind of like Hughes in as a PG backup to play with Gordon.....Sefalosha does a lot of things that don't always show up on the stat line, he's solid already and seems to be getting better with his stroke....
by majoyenrac on Feb 26, 2008 1:14 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I don't understand
by JeffD on Feb 26, 2008 1:33 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe it's because
Plus given his incredble athleticism and raw talents, he could still shine as a SF and still be one of the most athletic in the game.
PF should be his secondary position. In order for Tyrus to truly be a sensational 82 games PF in this league he'd need to put on at least 40 pounds and that would hinder his athleticism.
by majoyenrac on Feb 26, 2008 5:26 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Okay it's time to your use your brain.
Now for your homework go look up the number of starting PFs that are 265 pounds or heavier. There has never been a bunch of 255+ pound PFs running around the NBA. Size simply isn't a legitimate argument for why Tyrus shouldn't being playing PF.
by Scotter on Feb 26, 2008 6:11 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
it's time to use your brain
by Scotter on Feb 26, 2008 6:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Sure
Only Bosh is on the slight build side, the others all are nipping on 7 feet tall and/or are solid/strong (Boozer).
Tyrus Thomas's athleticism and skill set make him most equivalent to a hopefully more together Josh Smith.....and Smith's bigger than Tyrus and plays SF.
Like I said, I wouldn't ween Tyrus off the 4 entirely but 30-40 minutes for him at the 4 (the most pivotal spot in the NBA) isn't going to work in my estimation given Tyrus' size/build.
by majoyenrac on Feb 27, 2008 8:58 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
huh?
And Thomas has the length of a 7 footer. It doesn't make him 7 feet tall, but it doesn't disqualify him from playing against a slightly bigger player either.
Most of the players you listed were all pretty thin in their early years too.
by hscs on Feb 27, 2008 9:27 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Kevin Mchale too
by hscs on Feb 27, 2008 9:31 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I meant
I swear sometimes on this site folks get so into semantics and don't really think about the posts, it's irritating.
by majoyenrac on Feb 27, 2008 10:24 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Tyrus
Facts are with Tyrus's game and size, he'll fit better as a SF long term. I understand the thinking keeping him there now since he hasn't developed his ball handling/shooting skills, but let's not force him into a position that wouldn't best accentuate his ridiculously raw talent.
I'm not the only one saying this either, plenty of analysts have mentioned it, and on draft day a lot of folks were surprised the Bulls got another SF in Tyrus when we already had Luol and Noc.
Tyrus even sees himself more as a SF anyway.
by majoyenrac on Feb 27, 2008 10:27 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
It's much more likely
You seem to be concentrating on the defensive end, but I haven't seen anything from him that makes me think he can't defend that position. If anything he usually gets burned by guys who can pull him out to the perimeter, pump fake and blow by him.
by CrashDavis on Feb 27, 2008 10:36 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Tyrus
The guy has room to grow here sure, I'm not saying he's going to be our star SF today, btu long term that seems a great fit for him.
Coming into the year I would never want him to shoot anywhere beyond a 2 foot dunk/layup/put back attempt, now in just the past few games he's shown me much more than I thought.
He can still work and improve on the jump shots, etc.
He will improve there.
And yes I am focusing on the defensive end, since I am still under the impression that Defense wins championships and I'll still be there until Phx or even Dallas win a few.
by majoyenrac on Feb 27, 2008 10:47 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
So then we agree.
by CrashDavis on Feb 27, 2008 10:58 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
No we disagree
We're not going anywhere anyway and having Tyrus at SF with Gooden, Noah and our draft pick in those rotations would be great.
We trade Deng AND Gordon away for a big contributor too....
by majoyenrac on Feb 27, 2008 11:34 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Or he's not fully equipped to play PF!
by CrashDavis on Feb 27, 2008 11:40 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
not big enough/tall enough/ or powerful enough
He's so athletic, let's put him in a spot that maximizes his athleticism....it's like the Orlando experiment putting Lewis in at PF, when he's really a 3, and Lewis has been decent, but would be better at the 3 (and Lewis is at least taller and stronger now than Tyrus).
Or new guys like Durant even, a lanky 6 10 guy who might get some boards etc if he played the PF, but he'll never have the build to be a star PF in the league, he has the build and skill set to be a star 2/3.
Tyrus has the build and athleticism to be a star 3 and at times 4. Let's maximize that.
I'm not sayign Tyrus is the offensive weapon that Lewis and Durant are, he ain't and likely never will be, but he's got all their athleticism and defense.....
But I guess we'll just disagree.
by majoyenrac on Feb 27, 2008 12:13 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You keep saying things that conflict with reality.
Durant and Lewis aren't even in the same league athletically with Tyrus. Neither is a great shot blocker or good rebounder, but they're highly skilled so their size becomes an advantage at SF. Highly skilled players benefit from having a size advantage. Less skilled players benefit from a quickness advantage. Thomas is a solid rebounder for a PF, he's great shot blocker for a PF, and isn't highly skilled. And his defense at PF is good, click the link. Anyone claiming that Tyrus should really be playing SF doesn't know what they're talking about, and that includes Tyrus himself. Anyone who has closely watched Tyrus play and examined the statistics should know Tyrus is really a PF, and if they don't then they're clueless about the NBA.
by Scotter on Feb 27, 2008 1:48 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
http://www.82games.com/0708/07CHI14C.HTM
by Scotter on Feb 27, 2008 1:48 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
thanks for the link
by Jaina on Feb 27, 2008 1:56 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
It's obviously worth noting...
by tyger1147 on Feb 27, 2008 2:19 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
All I'm going to say
if he wants to be a star in this league he should move to a position that favors his slight build and maximizes his athleticism.
Obviously his stats now belie the theory he's a SF, he hasn't played there much and is raw, but throwing him out there and developing his weaknesses, will make him better.
He's got all the D at the SF spot already. He's got little O anywhere but seems to have potential to be decent on offense....
That's it for me. We can hide Tyrus at the PF now because of his athleticism, but we'll continue to be burned against the big PF's in the league and meanwhile are still missing that top star SF (Deng ain't it in my opinion).
But I think I've ranted my points enough on this matter. Tyrus is likely to always be middle of the pack or worse at PF, but could be a premier SF in this league even if he won't be today, that's all I'm saying.
by majoyenrac on Feb 27, 2008 2:23 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
CHECK THE EFFIN' LINK, DINGUS!!!
YOU ARE WRONG!!11!!11!!!11!1
by tyger1147 on Feb 27, 2008 2:39 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
lol he really doesn't
it takes him away from the basket which is where he works best.
by Jaina on Feb 27, 2008 2:45 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Also
Plus as I the DINGUS (whatever that means) said, I think TYRUS will struggle more there this year, but LONG TERM that is a nice spot for a guy with his set of skills.
Stats don't tell long term, stats on a very small percentage of time, don't tell overall effectiveness,
Stats can be flawed.
I'm a stat guy, I know these things it's my job.
I guess I'm a happy DINGUS.
by majoyenrac on Feb 27, 2008 3:59 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I believe you're overlooking
And it seems doubtful that he's going to start developing a 3-point shot, since at this time, he's still working on his 10- to 20-foot jumpers.
His raw athletic talent and his height and build make him more suited for your classic 4 than a 3.
by bullhockey on Feb 28, 2008 12:44 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Gotta love
Oh well, we'll have to see how Tyrus develops.
Going into the Boylan tenure even I never thought Tyrus could be a SF in the league because his complete lack of a shot, but lately it seems he's surprising with his use of the backboard, and more consistency hitting that jump shot.
I also see a fabulous pass here and there, and at times a nice layup.
Tyrus is nice too because he can get involved in a defensive switch (when Tyrus is on Offense at the 3) and blow by the defenders with his quickness....
But oh well, we'll just have to see what happens.
He's a very exciting prospect and all that Lamarcus is better hype/crap earlier this year sure has been muted the past 3 weeks or so....I haven't heard a peep about it since at least the first week or so of January....interesting....
by majoyenrac on Feb 28, 2008 12:56 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Stoudamire is, and should be, a center.
I'll list the PF's again (just for fun), and you tell me who will be dominating Thomas 3-4 years from now.
(listed in order of Hollinger PER)
Bosh
*Garnett
*Nowitzki
Boozer
*Gasol
*Jamison
*Marion
Josh Smith
West
Aldridge
*Rasheed
David Lee
Okafor
*Joe Smith
Randolph
Wilcox
Warrick
*Lewis
Milsap
Craig Smith
*Harrington
James Jones
Maxiell
*Murphy
*Odom
*Collison
*Scola
Tyrus Thomas
Those are all the players with a higher PER and 20+ mpg than Thomas--he has 15.14 at 17 mpg. The ones starred will be 30 years old or more 3 years from now? Of the others, who will dominate Thomas? Bosh? Boozer? My guess is a lot of players will be having problems with those guys. Josh Smith? David West? Aldridge???
That leaves 14 players above (leaving out prospects like Brandan Wright-skinny!) that will be approaching or in their "prime" when Thomas just begins to reach his potential. I'm not worried about most of those guys.
I'm sorry, you're just so wrong on this.
If the Bulls had someone that they thought could be better than Thomas at PF, then they should consider it. They don't. In fact, they have someone that can, and should be, a better small forward in Luol Deng. That part of it seems lost on you. Yes, they should try to expand Thomas's game, but not for some future position switch, but to make him a better player w/ more versatility.
by tyger1147 on Feb 27, 2008 2:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You also seem to forget
I'm tired of this argument, we'll agree to disagree. Can't be wrong on opinions....and besides Luol ain't ever going to be a premier SF, he'll at best have a year or 2 at maybe the 5th best in the league but that might be a big at best, but he's not athletic enough to be the tops and already is behind similar guys like Josh Howard who aren't materially older than him.....
Sorry folks. I say trade Luol now before his value depreciates. I'd rather use Luol and now Ben in a combo trade for a stud PF/C....
Oh well. I guess no matter the arguments I'll be wrong in your eyes. I guess that's what happens when we follow our team so well and don't think past the guys we like. I like our guys, I like Deng, he's an "ambassador" to the NBA, and a solid player, just not the future superstar that his rep indicates. He'll never have the speed, etc. of a Lebron, the D of a Josh Howard, Caron Butler, or even the all around game of the underrated Tayshawn Prince. He can score more consistently than Tayshawn, but I'd be damned to say Deng's better than Prince now and likely for a few more years...
by majoyenrac on Feb 27, 2008 3:51 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You can't say
Deng is 22 this year and Josh Howard is 27. The difference between 22 and 27 is huge. Josh Howard wasn't even in the NBA when he was 22. That's just one very clear example, but there were many other examples today. If you want hide behind "agree to disagree" then don't support your opinions with statements that don't even meet the standard for "truthiness."
by Scotter on Feb 27, 2008 5:00 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
truthiness
I'm a Dingus, I know.
by majoyenrac on Feb 27, 2008 6:02 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
"Can't be wrong on opinions"
"Vanilla is better than chocolate" = "PJ Brown is better than Tim Duncan"
Just my opinion, man. I can't be wrong. Narf!
(I do allow the 5% chance (or whatever) that Thomas will be a great SF, but it's the wrong way to go about developing him.)
by tyger1147 on Feb 28, 2008 9:46 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
you're bordering on exult territory now
by bullshooter on Feb 27, 2008 9:36 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
How is Stoudemire a center?
Duncan, sure he could be a center, but he spends plenty of time at the PF spot.
Rasheed's a PF too, he's got the height like these others to switch to C, but ultimately has played more PF in his career.
Tyrus has the athleticism to play well at a PF spot for 10-15MPG, but the bulk of his minutes I say would be be served long term at the SF spot, where he could still grab the boards, defend like he does, block, help defend, and on the other end drive and score.
Let's keep looking for a solid BIG and TALL PF for us to compete with the other BIG PF's in the league, maybe Gooden will fit that role....who knows.
by majoyenrac on Feb 27, 2008 10:36 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with you Majoyenrec
Josh Smith and Andrei Kirilinko are small forwards, that is Tyrus. Take off the rose-colored glasses.
by Deng is the next Bull superstar on Feb 28, 2008 12:33 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Funny you bring up Kirilenko
by snley on Feb 28, 2008 9:09 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I think
AK-47's decline also has to do with the fact that the Jazz have a real PF in Boozer and don't want a PF tweener who is less offensively gifted.
I love Tyrus, don't get me wrong, he's still our best bet at a superstar, but I want to see him be that superstar player and I think the 3 is where he'll get that.
by majoyenrac on Feb 28, 2008 9:48 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The problem is, he seems destined to fail at the 3
by snley on Feb 28, 2008 10:14 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Did you two live in a fantasy land?
Gooden hasn't been terrible on defense, but he's also never been that good at guarding his man.
http://www.82games.com/0708/07CLE15C.HTM
http://www.82games.com/0506/06CLE11C.HTM
http://www.82games.com/0405/05CLE12C.HTM
http://www.82games.com/04CLE10C.HTM
He's also never been as good as Tyrus
http://www.82games.com/0708/07CHI14C.HTM
And if you have been paying attention. He done pretty well defensively against the best PFs in the league. If you think Gooden is a better defensive alternative to Thomas then you're alone on an island with "Deng is the next Bull superstar." Good luck with that, he apparently likes to talk to himself and randomly bursts into shouting . You've been around here along time majoyenrac, you should be better than this.
by Scotter on Feb 28, 2008 11:11 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
judging by what's happening so far
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 28, 2008 11:16 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
All I'm saying
Looking at Gooden, I'd be shocked if there was only a 15 pound difference. Gooden looks huge, and has played a very powerful game.
Ultimately I like Tyrus, as I've stated, I think he has the potential to be our next superstar. I think Tyrus has enough potential to be a solid 3 in the league. I know you don't agree, but that's my opinion "basically that's my opinion and I'm sticking to it".
I've always liked the glimpses of greatness from Deng, but have always thought Deng is better on paper and in spurts than he'll be for the rest of his career....he'll always be an above avg SF, but never really a great SF.
Deng's value has taken a hit this year, but it's only a slight hit given his age and his decent PER.
Deng turned down a $50M contract in the offseason like BG, and yet everyone's all over BG for doing this and nobody's saying anything about Deng.
If we didn't have Andres signed, I would say wholeheartedly keep Deng at all costs, but given that we have Andres, and have a tweener 3/4 in Tyrus and now a solid PF in Gooden, I think the Bulls should package Deng in a trade this offseason to get us possibly a superstar Center or a dare-I-say-it pure PG to compliment Hinrich at the PG (or maybe both).
If Gordon has to go in the trade also to make that happen, then fine, we live with Hughes.
Tyrus can be great in certain matchups at the 4, and can play solidly there for 10-15 minutes a night, but I'd like to see us DEVELOP him at the 3, where I think his around the rim, blocking, defense and offensive raw talents can shine. He's got much more athleticism than the "pro's pro" of the very much underrated Tayshawn Prince, and he seems to have more raw skills in every aspect than Prince, but also with more of a big-game killer instinct.
That's what I see in Tyrus. I know he ain't there yet, but personally while as a BIG FAN, I'd love to see us win and get into the playoffs, I also might have to live with us being bad this year (because at best if everything gels we still aren't tops in the East).....so let's try the Tyrus at the 3 experiment for much of the rest of the year....get a slightly better draft pick, and ship BG, Luol and change for possibly someone like Arenas and change.....
I think right now we have hte makings to be a solid playoff bound team but we won't have championship talent until we make one more trade. I want us to keep Tyrus because he's a freak of nature.
I'm not saying Gooden is merely a better defensive option, the reason I really like Gooden is that he gives us a natural PF game, one that allows us to play inside and out and Gooden will tend to favor staying in the lane (instead of Tyrus who still drifts out for the jump shots).....as an added feature Gooden is a big body who can help defend, but I like him because he's a low post option on a team that has so sorely lacked a low post option the past several years.
Tyrus can get points in the post, but he's hardly the standard throw the ball into the post and get a high percentage dunk kind of guy, Tyrus's points in the paint normally come off a missed shot by him or otherwise, and his athleticism.
Judging from the fact that the Bulls and Boylan seem to be working with Tyrus on his outside shooting, and Tyrus has improved in leaps and bounds there, even if he's still not fully there yet, I think we might as well keep him as a SF spot and use the post to play a real post guy.
It's not at all that I think Gooden's an all star, or better than Tyrus (he ain't) it's just that Gooden better fits a role that we've sorely missed in the Hinrich/Paxson era, and let's see how our guys do with a guy who has his skills....then we maybe upgrade there or at C in the future.
Of course if Noah bulks up and we crack his offensive game with some work at technique (A long shot) then I'd love the Tyrus at the 4 thing, but with Tyrus at the 4 and Noah a better offensively but still similar to Wallace at the 5, we're still forced into being a perimeter based team.
Having a Gooden in there, we can play both inside and outside game, and having Tyrus's freakish athleticism, nose for D, good help defense/blocks, speed, passing abilities, and unrefined shooting and ball handling will once developed add another mix to our club, especially given that Tyrus can switch to the 4 at will when necessary.
Having Tyrus at the 4 is like the Suns having Marion at the 4. It worked given the SUns personnel to an extent, but it also compromised them defensively especially in the playoffs.....and Marion like what I believe Tyrus will be was easily their best defender.
Obviously had the Suns traded Marion for a better player, they wouldn't suck right now, but trading him for "The Big Disappointment" was a big mistake, Shaq's not the old Shaq....
But now I'm on a tangent....
oH WELL, AS mATT said, those are my thoughts in a nutshell, and I'd like to see us give them a shot. Of course with Boylan out there, none of this will ever happen anyway.
by majoyenrac on Feb 28, 2008 12:42 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
What the hell.
And that's exactly what you see in the last five games where you've had this great revelation.
Last five games played
Jump shots
Gooden: 11/28 39%
Thomas: 11/24 46%
In the paint:
Gooden: 13/27 48%
Thomas: 13/24 54%
You keeping claiming that Gooden is somehow dramatically different form Thomas when he isn't. Yes, Thomas has a more diverse skill set than Gooden, which should lead you to conclude he can be a better PF than Gooden rather than concluding that Thomas is a SF. You just discovered, Tyrus could make a jump shot consistently when he has consistent form. You found out last week, I knew he had fixed his form last fall and that he would be able to make jump since his 1st summer league: http://www.blogabull.com/story/2006/7/14/151311/681
http://www.nba.com/hotzones/index.html?team=bulls&player=drew_gooden&season=22007&split= 5
http://www.nba.com/hotzones/index.html?team=bulls&player=tyrus_thomas&season=22007&split =5
by Scotter on Feb 28, 2008 2:36 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I wonder what you thought in November
I'm just glad to see his improvement, and while sure Gooden shoots some outside shots, I think you're in the minority in saying Tyrus and Gooden have similar inside offense games.....even Hollinger (who I admit I'm not the biggest fan of overall, but who at times has very good points) seemed to be indicating what I've been saying here today in his post on ESPN.COM (there's a whole other linke on "how to fix the Bulls).....
Oh well, we disagree.
I'm not judging Tyrus off of 5 games, I'm judging what I had seen from Tyrus the last year and a half....I like Tyrus, unlike Hollinger I think it's stupid to part with Thomas, and I think he's our really only untouchaBULL.
But I think given that we have a power guy with a more refined post play game and a bigger body, let's utilize that strength of offense.
Tyrus gets put backs etc from charging the lane for rebounds, something he could still go playing against the vast majority of the 3's in the league.
Oh well.
Tyrus might have fixed his form, but hadn't been hitting a consistent jump shot until very recently. Hell Ben Wallace has a nice FT form, but he hardly hits the shots well (he doesn't have perfect form, but not nearly the bad form that belies his almost 40% career FT percentages). Reggie Miller and Shawn Marion have crazy form, but both could hit jump shots very consistently......
Tyrus was scary to watch shoot for his first year and a half in the league (Noc was scary to watch shoot his rookie year and improved to now he's a decent shooter, just sometimes makes dumb decisions).
Oh well. Again, all I say is we disagree and leave it at that.
by majoyenrac on Feb 28, 2008 3:21 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
If you go back and look,
A big part of consistently making shots is consistent shooting from. Ben Wallace can't consistently shoot with the same form. Tyrus slightly altered his form to give him a consistent loading point to start his shot, which leads to consistently making shots. He there's less opportunity to shoot across his body and less motion in his jumper so now there's less that can go wrong.
by Scotter on Feb 28, 2008 3:58 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
"Gooden looks huge etc."
by Bass on Feb 29, 2008 3:28 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
He's got at least 40 pounds
I'm not saying he's Sweetney big, he ain't, but he's not Tyrus thin either.
I don't know what you are talking about.
by majoyenrac on Feb 29, 2008 3:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Gooden's even listed 35 pounds bigger than Tyrus
Their games aren't even similar, Gooden is a more classic PF and Tyrus is a tweener SF/PF....
But I'm done rearguing my points, time will tell.
by majoyenrac on Feb 29, 2008 3:40 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
"I'm done argunig" x 10
by tyger1147 on Feb 29, 2008 3:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, so you're saying it's NOT the beard??
by Bass on Mar 1, 2008 10:18 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Worst. Diary. Ever.
by 1958ChiTown on Feb 26, 2008 1:45 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
this is the 3rd one this week
I guess I can't complain about such diaries as well as too-tiny ones that say nothing, right? eh, yes I can.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 26, 2008 1:51 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I think I agree.
by Scotter on Feb 26, 2008 1:53 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
if the trade didn't happen
I don't see it happening now, but it might. (how SamSmith-esque of me)
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 26, 2008 2:34 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Did you get linked-to on MySpace.com/bulls?
by tyger1147 on Feb 26, 2008 3:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Drew
by tyrus4prez on Feb 26, 2008 1:46 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
So, wait, are you saying
Because I'm just not sure if that's what you're saying. Maybe if you repeated it and used some capital letters... and then repeated it again.
I like Gooden. Don't get me wrong. But he does seem to have some focus issues, as someone mentioned in a recent post, seeming to drift in and out a little bit, and sometimes going away from the real reason he should be on the court, which is to score down low and rebound.
But I like Tyrus Thomas a lot more than I like Gooden. He's exciting to watch, and extremely effective as a 4. The Golden State game should have proven that. I know you discount that, but that was in no way a cakewalk of a game. That's an elite western conference team in the thick of the playoff hunt, with a good coach (Nellie even told his team they "can't afford to lose this one" on the open mic portion of the broadcast during the game).
Tyrus Thomas is not a small forward. His strength is being close to the basket--rebounding, blocking shots, and of course the (still developing) low post scoring, including spectacular dunks. Have him step away from the basket, and he's primarily setting screens--he's not hitting many jumpers around the 3-point line, as the typical small forward would. His stature is that of a 4, also, not a 3.
There are tall 3's in the NBA, but those are natural shooters with range--your Turkoglus, Pejas, Rashard Lewises, your Marions, Tim Thomas, the Euro guy on the Lakers I can't remember, and of course LeBron
by bullhockey on Feb 26, 2008 1:46 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
the Tyrus vs. Gooden
by tyrus4prez on Feb 26, 2008 1:49 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
There's a big divide
by NBA Observer on Feb 26, 2008 1:51 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Development
It's not that I'm premising my thoughts on mising the playoffs. It's just that making the playoffs this year is just not as important. It's an afterthought.
It's only important for the job security and/or resumes of Boylan and, to some extent, Paxson.
by bullhockey on Feb 26, 2008 1:57 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Paxson has no worries for his job.
by tyger1147 on Feb 26, 2008 2:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Remeber too
Gooden has good moments, and can play very well in stretches and series of games....
His "village idiot" moments that sometimes stretch a quarter or a game though are what make him a role player at best.
Still he's a very good role player and definately a starter on most teams.
I think we got him as a coup really for allowing Cleveland to take Big Ben. Big Ben is still more valuable than Larry Hughes in Lebron's mind....
by majoyenrac on Feb 26, 2008 3:44 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I wouldn't simplify it that much
by snley on Feb 26, 2008 2:03 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
i agree
by tyrus4prez on Feb 26, 2008 2:14 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Breaking News!
It's called the blogger disease.
by Sky on Feb 26, 2008 1:52 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Biggest problem
Both Hughes and Gooden had horrible turnovers in the third quarter (just throwing it or handing it to Mavs), following a pattern of bad decisionmaking that our team is already known for.
Gooden did flash some potential as a post up scorer, though it makes me nervous that he takes so long to develop his move and that no one seems to be cutting weakside to help him.
This is my personal dead horse that I like to beat, but I hope that Pax can transform the glut of wings into a talented, pass-first point guard who can be counted on to make good decisions most of the time. I just don't think that any combination of Kirk, Hughes and BG will be the answer.
by Gene Banks on Feb 26, 2008 1:57 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
At least you didn't say "pure" PG
by snley on Feb 26, 2008 2:05 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Majoyenerec
That could be either way. Both of them should be getting good burn.
I obviously agree on Gooden starting, DEFINITLEY. And Deng I hope is healthy soon, he needs to be big for us and show what we all saw last year from our 50 win team when he was the best player with much more upside left. Come on Luol!
by Deng is the next Bull superstar on Feb 26, 2008 2:06 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Listen Mrs. Gooden...
by 1958ChiTown on Feb 26, 2008 2:08 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Okay MRS. Thomas
by Deng is the next Bull superstar on Feb 26, 2008 2:13 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
standing reach
Thomas: 9'
Despite being a whopping 1.5" shorter. Thomas isn't as round and cuddly looking, but he can work on that too.
by hscs on Feb 26, 2008 2:20 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Wow, Mrs. Gooden
by sue369 on Feb 26, 2008 2:36 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
They will
by sue369 on Feb 26, 2008 2:41 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Ding-dong. It's Mrs. Griffin at the door.
by bullhockey on Feb 27, 2008 10:37 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
oh my...
"I obviously agree on Gooden starting, DEFINITLEY. And Deng I hope is healthy soon, he needs to be big for us and show what we all saw last year from our 50 win team when he was the best player with much more upside left. Come on Luol!"
Best. Run on. ever.
by Lt.Dan on Feb 26, 2008 2:56 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah
Hughes height and defense also help account for BG's size woes.
by majoyenrac on Feb 26, 2008 5:28 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Tyrus can post up
Gooden should be starting. HE is a better Power Forward than Ty and gives us the lowpost dimension on offense that we need. Gooden is what, 3 years older than Ty? Tyrus will never be a real power forward, he just wont. Period.
Tyrus hsould be getting 20-25 minutes a game to develop as our 3rd big, 1st big off the bench and a big part of our rotation. That is more than enough time to develop and still gives us the best chance to succeed this year AND next year.
by Deng is the next Bull superstar on Feb 26, 2008 2:12 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
let me know
by tyrus4prez on Feb 26, 2008 2:17 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
If Gooden is a mature, fully developed PF and
Christ man, it's dumpy ass, bearded Drew Gooden, not Tim Duncan.
And I am fairly certain he is about five years older than Tyrus, not three.
by 1958ChiTown on Feb 26, 2008 2:19 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
to be fair to the new guy
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 26, 2008 2:24 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
some of these new guys are making me miss alec
by snley on Feb 26, 2008 2:27 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
heh
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 26, 2008 2:35 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
So we finally have an official fanboi thread
by bullshooter on Feb 26, 2008 3:27 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Because
by Deng is the next Bull superstar on Feb 26, 2008 3:22 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I just want to be clear.
That could be true or maybe - just maybe, call me crazy, this is a wild idea, almost insane - maybe Gooden just had one fluke of a good year and then returned to the mean.
by 1958ChiTown on Feb 26, 2008 3:45 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
No
That is the explanation there, and as for was he misused in Cleveland? YES, ever since Paul Silas got fired in the last month of Drew's first season in Cleveland he has been misused completely.
(Drew was averaging 15.6 ppg 9.7 rpg and 2.1 apg on 51% fg and a 20.6 per up til halfway thru march of 05 when his coach got fired).
by Deng is the next Bull superstar on Feb 28, 2008 12:40 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
more post up objects
Sheed, Kenyon Martin, and Nazr Mohammed.
by NBA Observer on Feb 26, 2008 2:21 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Who cares if he can't post up?
by snley on Feb 26, 2008 2:21 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
ahh a thinker...
Don't get me wrong, I agree the kid can play. Based on the match-ups he can excel. THOMAS! does fair well in drawing fouls under the basket only when he has a miss-match in hieght, mass or in quickness. But when up against paint-battling titans, like an erick dampier, with-out strong post-up moves THOMAS! folds like a flower in winter. If he can put on wieght like Garnett did he'll be fine. But dude believes he's the answer downlow now and thats just an opinion not a fact.
by akuma77 on Feb 27, 2008 2:41 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
He's already been putting on weight
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 27, 2008 2:50 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
THOMAS! is not a natural post-up playa
by akuma77 on Feb 27, 2008 11:28 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Reality check.
by Scotter on Feb 27, 2008 11:45 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You obiously ...
A gamer utilizes EVERY aspect of the game to bring out the optimum potential of EVERY player on his team in order to punish the other team mentally, physically and spiritualy. A "gangsta" play is just a figure of speech there sparky.The play itself is ment to demoralize anouther team or to take back momentum. A means to break out of this goody-to-shoo, "great character"
mind controlling bullcrap! Risk it all or go home.
Don't take things too literally.
Especialy when you're referring to the word "BIG".
THOMAS! is greater in length and height, but in the NBA... MASS is what moves mountains. The dude is a pogo stick, nuff said.
by akuma77 on Feb 27, 2008 2:22 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Trade Gooden?
by Coach Van Lier on Feb 26, 2008 2:37 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Ma Duhon yesterday
Goes back to lurking
by upther on Feb 26, 2008 2:43 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
That's what I get for not paying attention.
by upther on Feb 26, 2008 2:50 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
New peeps
by paxson43 on Feb 26, 2008 2:51 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I thought
by sue369 on Feb 26, 2008 2:55 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
BaB little achievers
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 26, 2008 3:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
No surprise here
by Sky on Feb 26, 2008 4:19 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
i dont think anyone
by tyrus4prez on Feb 26, 2008 4:35 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Which is
A guy that can create his own shots and make plays for teammates with his passing, gets to the foul line, good slasher, big guard, very good defender, good scorer
And a guy that can score inside, has to be guarded, you can post him up (First real post option we have had in 5 years), very good rebounder on both ends, and a very good option to run pick and roll with, athletic true power forward, solid passer from inside and he can get to the line himself..... unlike Big Ben, you have to guard him inside and he's a true post-up and pick/roll option that can score in all those ways. That opens up alot for our other talent, especially when compared to Big Ben.
Those were two big needs for us. That's a helluva acquisition both in their 20's in return for our two oldest players that had no longterm plans with us, we got much better for the future with that move and alot better for the rest of this year as well.
So we know what they will give us, and they could give us alot more if theyre used correctly (UNLIKE THEY WERE IN CLEVELAND), and Gooden is only 26 years old...... so they could give us MORE than what we "Think' (noT know!) theyll give us....... but even if they just give what we expect they could contribute in a HUGE WAY to WINNING! VERY NICE TO SEE!
by Deng is the next Bull superstar on Feb 28, 2008 12:46 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Outside of 15
by nobullishbasketball on Feb 27, 2008 4:34 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

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