Trade Talk: McGrady??

by ScottieCartwright on Jan 8, 2008 2:14 PM CST

[UPDATE 1/08]: I'm bumping this because Marc Stein is 'corroborating' the reports that Houston and the Bulls have talked about McGrady. As many red flags as there are with McGrady, I'd be open to doing a deal for him if it meant giving back Wallace, as their contracts run the same length. Say the principals are McGrady/Scola for Wallace/Gordon? As Simmons says: who doesn't do that deal? -Matt

I'm not sure if anyone else has heard anything, but I was watching PTI yesterday and at the very end Wilbon made a comment about there being some rumblings between Chicago and Houston, exchanging Hinrich and T-Mac.

That was news to me. I hadn't really heard any gossip about that.

I was able to make it work here, but I just can't see Houston making this deal...or us really. T-Mac is always hurt and plays no defense.

At least the Kobe deal made sense, but I can't see this working out....maybe Pax should throw him an arrival parade at O'Hare with Benny the Bull and have him throw out a pitch at the Cell...I'm sure he'll agree to come then.

Anybody heard anything about this?

Would you make a T-Mac trade?

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Who

is Carl Landry?? You made him up!! He's not a NBA player, but to answer your question on if I make this deal: only if we can get Aaron Brooks instead of Landry. I can't handle Du/ Gordon/Head running the point

by tyrus4prez on Jan 3, 2008 4:39 PM CST reply actions

Carl Landry

is Marcus Landry's brother, that's who he is.

Played for Purdue (and his brother's a Badger). Nice young man from Milwaukee. Talented family, sister plays NCAA women's basketball.

by KT on Jan 3, 2008 6:15 PM CST up reply actions

Sam Smith mentioned something

two weeks ago when the Rockets played the Bulls, so it's Wilbon picking up idle thoughts from Smith. Nothing to see here...

Nocioni-Khryapa in '08

by bullshooter on Jan 3, 2008 4:46 PM CST reply actions

Nope!

And I hope Paxson doesn't

by exult463 on Jan 3, 2008 11:06 PM CST reply actions

Why would we send them Hinrich?

Doesn't Houston already have like 4 point guards?

by Jaina on Jan 3, 2008 11:20 PM CST reply actions

Maybe

They want THE BEST WHITE AMERICAN POINT GUARD IN THE LEAGUE...sorry...its all i have left

im trying hard to become the next kirk hinrich, therefore im doing nothing more than being the next chris duhon.

by piccolomair on Jan 4, 2008 1:12 PM CST up reply actions

"American" is so essential

to that comment.

by arjoseph on Jan 4, 2008 9:38 PM CST up reply actions

Actually

It wont work if all the words are not there. Take Away American and you get, best white point guard in the league...well thats not hinrich, thats nash, then maybe kidd, and deron williams sometimes looks white.

Take away White and you get, Best American Point Guard....well then...kidd, d wiliams, cp3 etc

Take Away Point Guard and you get Best White American in the League, well that means any other position with white american players (kamen to be one).

Take away best....ahh u get my point...its a very fine title, and the only one hinrich has lived up to, all he has to do is be better than luke ridnour and Redick and hes good.

I would rather call him the second coming of stockton, or the White Billups (something i believe hinrich can be if he works a bit on his shooting and court savy), but i may never get that chance.

im trying hard to become the next kirk hinrich, therefore im doing nothing more than being the next chris duhon.

by piccolomair on Jan 5, 2008 6:11 AM CST up reply actions

Kidd's not white, either.

He's mixed.

by Jaina on Jan 5, 2008 10:11 AM CST up reply actions

Man

I hiccupped on that one, of course, if he was then he would have that title...my bad...i usually dont make that mistake.

im trying hard to become the next kirk hinrich, therefore im doing nothing more than being the next chris duhon.

by piccolomair on Jan 5, 2008 1:15 PM CST up reply actions

It's all good

and stranger yet when I re-read your comment just now you say "take away white and you get kidd" or whatever.. so clearly you weren't thinking that Kidd was white but somehow that slipped in there.

by Jaina on Jan 5, 2008 3:45 PM CST up reply actions

You could include

Jose Calderon as a white guy better than Hinrich, too. And I even like Hinrich.

by arjoseph on Jan 5, 2008 3:34 PM CST up reply actions

Well

Technically he aint white

im trying hard to become the next kirk hinrich, therefore im doing nothing more than being the next chris duhon.

by piccolomair on Jan 5, 2008 6:14 PM CST up reply actions

That would make a great intro for Kirk!

Someone call Ray Clay.

"At guard, 6'3', from Kansas, THE BEST WHITE AMERICAN POINT GUARD IN THE LEAGUE, Kirk, Hiiiiiinriiiich!

by RogersPark Kris on Jan 8, 2008 3:13 PM CST up reply actions

Agreed

Someone send that to Ray Clay before the pheonix game, it would be awesome to hear that announcement live at the U.C. Maybe it will knock sense into hinrich
"huh maybe i should live up to that EXCLUSIVE title"

im trying hard to become the next kirk hinrich, therefore im doing nothing more than being the next chris duhon.

by piccolomair on Jan 10, 2008 1:33 PM CST up reply actions

Tommy Edwards

has absolutely NOTHING on Ray Clay

by ScottieCartwright on Jan 10, 2008 1:47 PM CST up reply actions

It really

aint Kirk's fault. He is what he is. He really never claimed to be much more than he is. White, Black, Yellow, a small shooting guard, an ok point guard? But one thing for sure is Paxson has guaranteed that Kirk will be's rolling in the green for at least five more years.

by exult463 on Jan 6, 2008 2:03 PM CST reply actions

Marc Stein on Chad Ford's podcast

reported that there's been some talks with Houston re: McGrady.

(MP3)

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 8, 2008 1:48 PM CST reply actions

I'm warming up to the idea

As many red flags as there are with McGrady, I'd be open to doing a deal for him if it meant giving back Wallace, as their contracts run the same length. Say the principals are McGrady/Scola for Wallace/Gordon? As Simmons says: who doesn't do that deal?

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 8, 2008 2:32 PM CST reply actions

I'd do that deal all day

Houston on the other hand would probably want Hinrich(which I wouldn't be opposed to)......

by BNeL21 on Jan 8, 2008 2:41 PM CST up reply actions

hmmmm

McGrady is a super-high-usage guard, so maybe Duhon could work alongside him just spotting up and not turning the ball over. Assuming he hits threes at his career rate.

You'd likely have to take back one of Houston's many guards. (Luther Head being the best value, Raefer Alston and Mike James not so much. There's also Kirk Snyder, so we can keep at least one Kirk...and Steve Francis)

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 8, 2008 2:55 PM CST up reply actions

Or with T-Mac being the cliched Point Forward...

Play Thabo alongside him and actually have a huge backcourt for once.

by BNeL21 on Jan 8, 2008 3:06 PM CST up reply actions

T-Mac would instantly be

by far the best passer on the team. It'd be nice to be able to hold onto TT and pair him in a rotation with T-Mac. It'd be "dunk-city, baby!"

by alec on Jan 8, 2008 3:10 PM CST up reply actions

OR

if Kirk was the one to be traded, I'd put BG back in the starters role and you'd have one of the highest scoring backcourts in the league. Teams would have to pretty much pick their poison

by ScottieCartwright on Jan 8, 2008 3:22 PM CST up reply actions

True. T-Mac could be

your primary ballhandler.

by alec on Jan 8, 2008 3:23 PM CST up reply actions

T-Mac would be our primary

everything.

by BNeL21 on Jan 8, 2008 3:31 PM CST up reply actions

He's a bitch about this

TMac likes to bring it up to close games. He will bitch if he's asked to bring it up throughout the game.

by NBA Observer on Jan 8, 2008 4:29 PM CST up reply actions

Wallace

Like you said, the only way I think the deal should be done is if it includes Wallace. As Ford nicely put it toward the end of the podcast, Gordon can get you 30 a night, while shooting a mid-to-low percentage, so why would you need McGrady?

I have to agree with that. Plus Gordon stays relatively injury-free.

Also, I remember last year sometime McGrady saying something like he doesn't think he would like to keep playing for too much longer.

I'm not sure how solid he is on that, but if that were to hold true...that would pretty much add to the list of dumb moves we've made lately...

by ScottieCartwright on Jan 8, 2008 2:43 PM CST up reply actions

maybe

but 'not much longer' could mean the length of his contract, which is 3 seasons after this and the same length as Wallace. Who also may not play that much longer whether he wants to or not.

I suppose the concern is why does McGrady say such things? But I don't want to break out my psychology hat.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 8, 2008 2:50 PM CST up reply actions

With regard to BG,

it seems that if you have any intention of trading him, now, after a very nice extended scoring run, might be the optimal time. I wouldn't be surprised if there's some fire behind this smoke.

by alec on Jan 8, 2008 2:54 PM CST up reply actions

well it didn't hurt

but I don't think trade value flucuates that much, to be honest. GMs like Isiah and McHale make me think otherwise sometimes...

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 8, 2008 2:56 PM CST up reply actions

My thought was about selling the idea

to the home fans. It never hurts to see happy recent box scores.

by alec on Jan 8, 2008 3:05 PM CST up reply actions

Scola/ McGrady for the Bens

Love the trade. Fills both needs a "BIG" SG and a low post score without giving up a bunch of young prospects. Plus, you dump Big Ben.

it does work without fillers

by Jesse07 on Jan 8, 2008 7:31 PM CST up reply actions

Tracy McGrady's Work Schedule

68.3 games per season
34.5 minutes per game

Nobody has ever said "No" to McGrady. From the time he was plucked out of obscurity in Florida to showcase for adidas at Mt. Zion Academy he was served with silver spoons.

McGrady is owed $21,126,874 in 2008-2009 and $23,239,561 on 2009-2010. These numbers make Ben Wallace's 14.5 and 14 mil in the same two seasons sound reasonable.

Rocket fans are talking amongst themselves about a deal with Denver for AI.

by NBA Observer on Jan 8, 2008 4:07 PM CST reply actions

hmm...

damn that contract does escalate, doesn't it.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 8, 2008 4:11 PM CST up reply actions

McGrady makes me tingle

I admit it. Looking at the present roster and then thinking Gordon-out, McGrady-in, I get a little tingly. Oooh free throw attempts? It's been 10 years since we had a player that can get to the line from the guard position. Oh the joy of watching a solid guard get to the line and put the opponents bigs and perimeter defenders in foul trouble.

But when you look at those final two seasons owed to McGrady you start thinking that Michael Jordan was worth about 50 million per season and he played all the games. Well, most anyway.

I would think that Houston could learn to really love Ben Gordon though. He's better suited for the Western Conference and he can run around screens from Yao and Scola all day to get wide open looks.

by NBA Observer on Jan 8, 2008 4:26 PM CST up reply actions

But that's a huge number coming off the cap...

....in the summer of LeBron.

by BNeL21 on Jan 8, 2008 4:28 PM CST up reply actions

Those 3 year deals are nice

For teams willing to wait that long for help.

Wade signed one too. ;)

by NBA Observer on Jan 8, 2008 4:30 PM CST up reply actions

So did Bosh

by BNeL21 on Jan 8, 2008 4:32 PM CST up reply actions

LeBron is already betrothed

to the Knicks. As soon as the Knicks' mess clears up the engagement will become official. It's practically aldulterous even to think about him.

by alec on Jan 8, 2008 4:35 PM CST up reply actions

With James Dolan and Isiah in charge

There is no way they get LeBron

by BNeL21 on Jan 8, 2008 4:40 PM CST up reply actions

Lebron

Player, Coach, and GM would work in NYC.

Why not owner too?

by NBA Observer on Jan 8, 2008 5:08 PM CST up reply actions

there's a difference

between clearing cap space for LeBron the free agent, and gathering assets to trade for him before he becomes one. McGrady (or Wallace) would just be the expiring contract. If LeBron is truly pulling his big-market power-play on the Cavs, they'll deal him to Chicago over the Knicks if they have the better package. Um...LeBron would have to want to sign an extension though...

Another potential problem though, it's almost better to have the contract expire AFTER that summer. An expiring deal in the same year of free agency only works for the trade deadline preceding that free agent period.

The idea of any decent team being under the cap in 3 years is dicey, and renouncing everyone just to get a shot at Lebron, Wade, Bosh? I think of the imfamous summer of McGrady, Hill, etc.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 8, 2008 4:54 PM CST up reply actions

Lebron worth it

I agree that most of the time clearing space for future free agents scares me but Lebron would be worth it. Last years Cleveland team was not that good and they got to finals. Put Lebron with some 3pt shooters, defenders, rebounders and you have a championship shot. Although its still 3 years from now so probably 1 summer too early to think about that

by NY Chicago Fan on Jan 8, 2008 5:05 PM CST up reply actions

I agree he's worth it if you actually got him

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 8, 2008 5:07 PM CST up reply actions

Guys, how about this trade!!!

Gasol and McGrady

by Mattchoo on Jan 8, 2008 7:10 PM CST reply actions

I like where your head's at.

That's not that bad of a deal. It magically cures the Noc BYC issues that prevent a Noc+Noah for Gasol trade from happening.

I wonder if Houston balks because of Gordon's impending free agency.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 8, 2008 11:32 PM CST up reply actions

how much

do you think Gordon would get? I think the Rockets might do it, because I dont see anyone throwing near the 10/yr the Bulls did, and someone could offer 6/yr and the Rockets match. 6mil/yr isn't a bad deal for Gordon. I think Wallace contract is holding up this deal??

I vote for Thomas to play, play more and play regularly.-Sam Smith

by tyrus4prez on Jan 9, 2008 8:57 AM CST up reply actions

maybe Gordon's serious about

the one-year tender. That'd make it even better from Houston's perspective.

Man, with McGrady AND Pau Gasol, we'd have cornered the market on the 'playoff choker' label. I'd use the label 'undervalued' though, heh.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 9, 2008 9:25 AM CST up reply actions

love it

please fwd to Pax!!

I vote for Thomas to play, play more and play regularly.-Sam Smith

by tyrus4prez on Jan 9, 2008 8:08 AM CST up reply actions

Great trade

But that deal makes way too much sense for three NBA GM's to agree to it.

"I took a couple of bad shots," Gordon said

by BNeL21 on Jan 9, 2008 8:30 AM CST up reply actions

Major upgrades at the two and five...

plus we get to keep Deng? Sign me up as well!

by RogersPark Kris on Jan 9, 2008 9:42 AM CST up reply actions

We also might be able to

use McGrady and another player in the summer to trade for Kobe :)! (since the lakers want an all-star player)

by Mattchoo on Jan 9, 2008 12:14 PM CST up reply actions

Bull Lineup

C:Gasol, Gray
PF:Smith, Thomas
SF: Deng, Sefolosha
SG:McGrady, Sefolosha
PG: Hinrich, Duhon

I can live with that lineup, assuming all parties are healthy..I would take and off and on injury to McGrady rather than a healthy Wallace

I vote for Thomas to play, play more and play regularly.-Sam Smith

by tyrus4prez on Jan 9, 2008 1:48 PM CST up reply actions

I don't like it, but...

each day I like it little more.

Arn Tellem represents Wallace, Gasol, and McGrady.

by NBA Observer on Jan 9, 2008 2:07 PM CST up reply actions

if needed

throw Thabo into the mix... We need to do something!!

I vote for Thomas to play, play more and play regularly.-Sam Smith

by tyrus4prez on Jan 9, 2008 4:29 PM CST up reply actions

What about a trade that looks like this?

We end up with Magette and Gasol as well as some contract filler and it makes sense for the other teams as well.

by fundamentallysound on Jan 10, 2008 8:53 AM CST up reply actions

interesting

i would probably do it as well, we just need to get rid of Wallace, he clogs up the middle. Bulls lineup:
C:Gasol, Noah, Gray
PF: Smith, Thomas, Noah
SF: Deng, Warrick, Magette
SG: Magette, Hinrich
PG: Hinrich, Navarro

and somewhere Mike James fits into the mix....Mike James!!!

I vote for Thomas to play, play more and play regularly.-Sam Smith

by tyrus4prez on Jan 10, 2008 9:10 AM CST up reply actions

who is holding up this trade?

I vote for Thomas to play, play more and play regularly.-Sam Smith

by tyrus4prez on Jan 10, 2008 9:47 AM CST up reply actions

doesn't work for Memphis

Noc+Thomas make as much as Gasol, and Gordon's due a raise. They likely want rookie contracts

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 10, 2008 9:47 AM CST up reply actions

I vote for Thomas to play, play more and play regularly.-Sam Smith

by tyrus4prez on Jan 10, 2008 9:53 AM CST up reply actions

We can do better

This thread interested me after The Sun-Times confirmed the talks again today. Tracy McGrady is not only broken down and misses games, he is selfish and ruins the flow of the offense. His contract is terrible. Houston really wants to get rid of him. Wallace plus Du for McGrady.

by chgobr on Jan 11, 2008 6:31 PM CST up reply actions

TMac

How would Houston play Gordon? With Mike James, Luther Head and Steve Francis? That'll make the Bulls current back court look positively gigantic by comparison.

McGrady seems like a guy that might put us over the top if we had a very good team otherwise. As it stands he seems like a very expensive, very injury prone piece that doesn't help us. The idea of teaming him up with Gasol and Deng is intriguing, but again, I dunno if it actually works for Houston. But maybe they're as done with TMac as we are with Wallace. In which case, I don't know that I want to add a lot in terms of a guy like Gordon.

The thing about McGrady, he makes $21M next year, compared to Wallace's $14.5M. I don't have a problem with that if the Bulls don't have a problem with that. Meaning, if you're in for a penny, you better be in for a pound. Don't spend that money and then not be willing to do what it takes in other areas to win.

(That was sort of my view with Wallace. It made great sense to get Wallace if you viewed his cost as a short-run expense to get a championship. But they immediately dumped a long-run asset - Chandler- right after that. Simply trading Gordon away to get a TMac, without spending to really make a winner, would be a very similar move).

by Sports2 on Jan 9, 2008 3:31 PM CST reply actions

Scola.

I think anyone would love having that guy on their team, but the Rockets aren't giving him up, so there is no point talking about it. Unless Noah or Thomas are in the deal, we will be seeing him in Rockets red for a while.

by Kemp @ Blog a Bull on Jan 9, 2008 8:37 PM CST reply actions

huh?

It's likely Noah or Thomas are included in any trade for a high priced player. Scola is just an okay bench player; he's not worth Thomas or Noah. Not even close.

Fire Boylan!

by hscs on Jan 9, 2008 8:50 PM CST up reply actions

He's saying

the Rockets really like Scola. They do. They made a trade to acquire him.

They like Scola's work ethic, hustle, and passing.

That said, I think Houston would swap Scola for Noah.

by NBA Observer on Jan 10, 2008 9:22 AM CST up reply actions

they traded a future 2nd rounder

and a player who wasn't going to play for Scola and Butler. The Rockets barely gave anything up. There's a difference between liking a cheap, average player, and trading 1st rounders for one.

Fire Boylan!

by hscs on Jan 10, 2008 9:35 AM CST up reply actions

The deal puzzled many

Especially observers of the usually excellent Spurs front office. I think the Spurs thought that Scola would not be able to come over to the NBA as soon as he did.

I don't know really. The Spurs also liked Jackie Butler. They signed him away from the Knicks when he was restricted free agent.

by NBA Observer on Jan 10, 2008 12:51 PM CST up reply actions

it's not that puzzling

it was a salary dump.

Fire Boylan!

by hscs on Jan 10, 2008 1:20 PM CST up reply actions

NBAObserver's new name

SpursFrontOfficeObserver

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 10, 2008 2:15 PM CST up reply actions

prefix for sale

If the price is right.

Do it Peter Holt.

by NBA Observer on Jan 10, 2008 4:21 PM CST up reply actions

Well...

you are probably right about Noah.

by Kemp @ Blog a Bull on Jan 11, 2008 10:11 PM CST up reply actions

Uhhh...

Scola's output is pretty close to or better than Thomas's; plus if you watch him he has a game with his back to the basket.

by Kemp @ Blog a Bull on Jan 11, 2008 10:17 PM CST up reply actions

scola is a 27 year old rookie

thomas is a lot younger, and more valuable by default. scola isn't that much better offensively, and thomas is a better rebounder and defender. neither is very tall, and only one makes up for that. guess which!

Fire Boylan!

by hscs on Jan 13, 2008 10:49 AM CST up reply actions

Does anyone have the details

on the Yoa quotes today? They're saying on Around the Horn that Yao said he's happier with T-Mac out of the line-up?

by alec on Jan 10, 2008 4:16 PM CST reply actions

News to me

The Rockets are 6-2 without McGrady.

Maybe Yao forgot he played the Knicks last night. Frank Isola says Yao received the loudest ovation the entire night in player introductions.

by NBA Observer on Jan 10, 2008 4:20 PM CST up reply actions

dead deal

Looks like Sam is killing off the magical McGrady deal:

For the record, the Bulls have not had any trade discussions with Houston about Tracy McGrady, and Rockets officials said the same thing last week. Rockets players, though, talked of more sharing the ball as they won seven of 10 after McGrady went out

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/basketball/bulls/cs-080113samsmithonthenba,1,1682495. column?coll=cs-bulls-headlines

Either that, or Pax vowed to quietly end his life if any more trade leaks got out...

by ScottieCartwright on Jan 14, 2008 9:22 AM CST reply actions