Some agree with Matt on Nocioni

by Diabolo on Jul 17, 2007 5:06 AM CDT

Found this at hoopsanalyst. Interesting, cause it was before draft or free agency period (back in May) :

"Finally, I'm not sure I would overpay too much for Andres Nocioni, the team's most significant free agent. He's solid player but he'll be 28 and the younger cheaper Thabo Sefolosha and Tyrus Thomas need to play more. If Nocioni can get a cheap deal great...but there is a good chance some team will give him a big deal."

Here is the link :

http://www.hoopsanalyst.com/0607pt7.htm

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Comments

great

thanks for stirring this up some more.

Need new sig

by bullshooter on Jul 17, 2007 10:07 AM CDT reply actions

I continue to enjoy it

Big shocker: a guy with the same skin pigmentation as most fans is a fan favorite.

by hscs on Jul 17, 2007 10:19 AM CDT up reply actions

Uhh, what ???

Thanks for succinctly summing it all up. If you'd have just stated that before, we could have skipped all of this debate. I for one feel better.

by EdNealy on Jul 17, 2007 10:24 AM CDT up reply actions

I didn't sum anything up

It's just another distasteful factor in all of this.

by hscs on Jul 17, 2007 10:41 AM CDT up reply actions

What an ignorant comment.

by 1958ChiTown on Jul 17, 2007 10:46 AM CDT up reply actions

describing him as 'clutch'

or as a key contributor is ignorant. A hypothesis that Noce love partially comes from his appearance is a solid educated guess.

by hscs on Jul 17, 2007 10:53 AM CDT up reply actions

clutch and skin and shit

i dont know if hes clutch but he doesnt seem to choke like many other players when it comes to the end of games and has taken clutch shots before and made them as well as missed some for the international team.

He's a fan favorite cause he pisses people off sometimes and because he hustles. It could be because of his skin and I think it helps that he doesnt speak much english so he cant say stupid things like Tyrus Thomas can.

Should we start talking about the Whitey MVP conspiracy. Nash/Nowitzki..please. Theres an example, everyone hates the Big German for no reason and he's white. But yes, fans probably associate more with white player sub consciousl, but I don't think it goes as far as being under the influence of some white person theromone that makes everyone think Nocioni is an all star. Anyways, why did we even get you started ont his?

by Sambossanova on Jul 17, 2007 11:05 AM CDT up reply actions

the diary title

and the sentiment in many a heart-Nocioni comment that the majority opinion justifies his inflated status on the team, and with fans. I was offering a reason why that's just kind of stupid, and it is mostly subconscious.

I agree, the MVP conspiracy is lame.

by hscs on Jul 17, 2007 11:19 AM CDT up reply actions

A "solid educated guess"?

Based on what? Have you conducted a statistically valid survey or poll of Bulls' fans? Have you talked to a majority of Bulls' fans? Is you conclusion based on peer reviewed psychological studies of NBA fans? What, exactly, is your evidence?

(BTW, even you can't miss the irony here. The very poster who once argued that it was impossible to deduce the mental state of Bulls' players based on publicly available comments is now drawing conclusions about the motivations of thousands and thousands of absolute strangers.)

Finally, making disparaging comments about Noce every day isn't going to change the fact that John Paxson felt Nocioni was worth $38 million. I doubt he came to that conclusion based on Nocioni's skin color.

by 1958ChiTown on Jul 17, 2007 11:15 AM CDT up reply actions

it's a fact

Most people judge others by their appearance. I'm not doing any mind reading.

by hscs on Jul 17, 2007 11:25 AM CDT up reply actions

what race are you dude?

by ScottieCartwright on Jul 17, 2007 1:11 PM CDT up reply actions

and I was addressing fans in general

not Paxson.

by hscs on Jul 17, 2007 11:29 AM CDT up reply actions

its his MO

He likes to start controversy. Not saying he's always wrong about basketball items, although I surely hope people don't like Noc due to his skin color, that would be sad.

by NY Chicago Fan on Jul 17, 2007 11:42 AM CDT up reply actions

It pains me to say, but

most of the time, your comments, however poignant, are pretty good. Let's chalk this one up to an off day.

I'd agree with the comments below; fans like Noc because of the absolute hustle, the enthusiasm and the obscene amount of charges taken. Somewhat like another fan favorite - Dennis Rodman.

by EdNealy on Jul 17, 2007 11:18 AM CDT up reply actions

wow

is that what you think this all boils down to?

Need new sig

by bullshooter on Jul 17, 2007 11:15 AM CDT up reply actions

nope

I thought was clear. It's more like Irrational Reason Why People Like Nocioni #598.

by hscs on Jul 17, 2007 11:26 AM CDT up reply actions

So it's not

everybody on here who disagrees with you on Noc is wrong because Noc is white (isn't he latino? Argentinians aren't latinos or is that South American?) and most of them on here are probably white?

BTW, thanks for making this interesting and humorous again. It's been a boring summer so far.

Need new sig

by bullshooter on Jul 17, 2007 11:31 AM CDT up reply actions

I believe the proper word is Argentine

and my point has less to do with his ethnicity and more to do with his outward appearance. I can't comment on how Artgentines identify themselves as a whole (or how Nocioni identifies himself - which isn't important), but the country has many different cultural and ethnic influences including a heavy European influence.

by hscs on Jul 17, 2007 11:46 AM CDT up reply actions

now try finding "Artgentina"

on your globe.

by hscs on Jul 17, 2007 11:48 AM CDT up reply actions

heh

I think it's right next to Moronia, a place well known for it's sheep.

Need new sig

by bullshooter on Jul 17, 2007 11:51 AM CDT up reply actions

First Blogabull comment!

I like noce, but im not white. Guess I must be a minority, pun intended.

by givepaxahug on Jul 17, 2007 12:13 PM CDT up reply actions

You...

jumped into a fun one!

by EdNealy on Jul 17, 2007 1:11 PM CDT up reply actions

Now this is

getting really good! And hscs, don't sell yourself short, I have no doubt that you can find a way to "comment on how Artgentines identify themselves as a whole".

by EdNealy on Jul 17, 2007 12:27 PM CDT up reply actions

An anthropology professor...

...who had done his work in Brazil, said that in some "layman's" circles, Brazilians considered there to be over a hundred different races.

Yes, of course.

by tyger1147 on Jul 17, 2007 1:09 PM CDT up reply actions

Argentine/ Argentinian

The correct term is Argentine but I think Argentinian is acceptable or has been used so much that I dont care anymore.

Anyways, ARgentines are latino/hispanic, but they are nonetheless mostly white when it comes to skin color. Thats with the exception of the few afro-argentines (most of whom died way far back) and then there are mixed race like in any latin country where native americans and white immigrants have mixed so much that their racial identity is as complicated as their ethnic identity. This is particularly true of Peruvians and other south american immigrants to argentina that ussually has darker skin and usually belong to a more working class. There are is also a large middle eastern and jewish community as well as a significant korean population to make the whole situation messier. In other words, Argentina is sort of a similar melting pot but less ingredients, no african slave descendants and a lot more catholics (Italian/Spanish descent)

by Sambossanova on Jul 17, 2007 2:21 PM CDT up reply actions

Si señor!

The Future is bright!

by Goostafer on Jul 17, 2007 2:23 PM CDT up reply actions

You are amazing

What you said was clear -- and it wasn't Irrational Reason #598. It was "Big shocker: a guy with the same skin pigmentation as most fans is a fan favorite." Put another way: "White fans prefer white players," with the 'big shocker' subtext, "(because white people are racist)."

You can't be surprised that people find that offensive.

Noc is underpaid.

by preverbal on Jul 17, 2007 12:46 PM CDT up reply actions

nope

If I thought Noce-love was a form of racism I would have brought it up earlier. I'm not surprised people are offended. Of course they're offended for all the wrong reasons.

by hscs on Jul 17, 2007 1:29 PM CDT up reply actions

For someone

who screams bloody murder any time someone plays the race card, you sure are a bloody hypocrite.

by ChrisRobin on Jul 17, 2007 12:17 PM CDT up reply actions

I didn't play the race card

I'm not trying to gain an advantage (winner!), or exploit anyone. For the record I don't dislike Nocioni, I just think he plays too much and receives unwarranted praise.

by hscs on Jul 17, 2007 12:27 PM CDT up reply actions

Andres Nocioni has....

... balls. They are very expensive in today's NBA world....

by Vangelis on Jul 17, 2007 12:25 PM CDT up reply actions

another solid educated guess

Every player on the roster has balls.

by hscs on Jul 17, 2007 12:29 PM CDT up reply actions

wrong again

it's very likely that one or more members of the squad have only one testicle, a very common situation, in which case that player would only have a ball. However, this condition probably wouldn't prevent him from balling.

Need new sig

by bullshooter on Jul 17, 2007 12:47 PM CDT up reply actions

Another sociological/psychological theory

would be that Noce's immigrant roots and hard work ethic resonate in Chicago. This assumes that most the fans are hard working immigrants from Germanic/Irish/Italian/Polish are a big portion of bulls fans.

This makes him a lot more likeable than most NBA players, many of whom don't always seem like they give a shit. Thats the same reason I really liked Tyson Chandler although he really sucked in his last year. You could tell he gave a shit and would get emotional.

by Sambossanova on Jul 17, 2007 2:25 PM CDT up reply actions

Please

not again. there is already a thread on this. why didnt you post the link there.

by Sambossanova on Jul 17, 2007 10:31 AM CDT reply actions

Fan Fav

I just like the way he says "Cheecago Boouls".

by Mike Aparicio on Jul 17, 2007 11:08 AM CDT reply actions

that's one reason everyone loves him :)

He's very, very funny.

by KT on Jul 17, 2007 12:26 PM CDT up reply actions

Amen to that

Interviews with him are like watching your manly looking friend speak in a high pitched spanish accent. It never stops amazing me.

Get that out of Tyrus' House!!!!

by cubbybear on Jul 17, 2007 12:31 PM CDT up reply actions

I love when

he does the promo spot on CSN. Instead of saying Comcast Sports Net he says Comcast Sport Nets. Always makes me giggle.

Some of us appreciate what Noc brings to the game more than others I guess. What has all of this pouting and carrying on about his signing solved? Nothing! It doesn't do any good worrying about how much playing time he will get. We will just have to trust Skiles and Pax to make those decisions.

Can we move onto other important issues like, what will they do with Duhon?

by sue369 on Jul 17, 2007 12:42 PM CDT up reply actions

Trouble with living outside of the Chi

... is that I never get to see Bulls players do funny promos like that. Oh well.

Although the pouting and carrying on about Nocioni doesn't solve anything, Blog-a-Bull does provide a good forum for fans to offer their thoughts on subjects related (or unrelated) to the Bulls. Let the people who want to debate Noc ad nausem do so... the rest of us can move onto other things.

On Du, sounds like people think he won't get moved until the middle of the season. I'd be ok with keeping him around for now but as a third option after Thabo. That buries JamesOn but maybe he then gets spot minutes with Thabo when Gordon needs a breather.

by paxson43 on Jul 17, 2007 1:03 PM CDT up reply actions

Good to champion a new topic...

I like the idea of keeping Duhon around until the trading deadline as well. While he's been pummelled on this site, I think he's a very valuable BACK-UP point guard. His tendency to indulge in extra-curricular activities and Skiles' early decision to allot Gordon's minutes to him (not his fault), definately didn't endear him to many here. Valuable player with a valuable contract.

by EdNealy on Jul 17, 2007 1:09 PM CDT up reply actions

let the man drink and party

personally I could care less about Duhon's extra-curricular fun, as long as he isn't breaking any laws who cares. Saying he should be off team becuase he frequents bars and is pictured with women is silly. Of course he needs to be ontime and ready to participate at all Bulls functions otherwise team should take action and I think they have in past.

by NY Chicago Fan on Jul 17, 2007 1:55 PM CDT up reply actions

Exactly

Like none of you guys would be out partying with skanky bar sluts if you played in the NBA. :)

I once saw Dennis Rodman, Ron Harper and Dickey Simpkins at Martini Ranch and some 5' tall white chick was grinding her booty on Dickey and trapping him up against the wall. He stood there helpless calling for Ron and Dennis to help him. It was hilarious.

by Mike Aparicio on Jul 17, 2007 8:05 PM CDT up reply actions

she was rubbing

her booty on Dickey... nice

The Future is bright!

by Goostafer on Jul 17, 2007 8:16 PM CDT up reply actions

per Marty Burns' mailbag:

The Magic and Grizzlies seem to be the big winners so far in free agency. What other teams have been the biggest winners?
-- J. Evey, Valparaiso, Ind.

It's still too early to tell, since not all the moves have been made yet. But the Bulls could turn out be one surprise winner. And not just because they managed to re-sign Andres Nocioni to a very reasonable five-year, $38 million deal. GM John Paxson has to love the Milicic signing. For one, it takes the 7-foot prospect off a fellow Eastern team. More important, it leaves the door open just a crack that Chicago might be able to revisit those talks for Gasol. With Milicic on board, Memphis now has a decent big man to replace Gasol in the event the Grizzlies were to decide to move him later.

by ScottieCartwright on Jul 17, 2007 1:27 PM CDT reply actions

hmmm

I have to agree with HS. Race does play a factor in CHICAGO sports. believe it or not. Hinrich would be perfect to come off the bench but yet this is never brought up. I wonder why. I wonder why some fans groan about the #3 pic in the draft wanting to be a starter and get paid what his value is. Two seasons ago when everyone kenw that pax would have to resign NOCE and DENG in the same year the fans wanted NOCE. I don't think a majority of fans are overtly racist they just one of see one of their own out there. Oh yeah there are like 25 more instances like these that make you wonder.

by Blacknight23 on Jul 17, 2007 3:23 PM CDT up reply actions

wow

I think you've got it. Keep up the good work.

Need new sig

by bullshooter on Jul 17, 2007 3:37 PM CDT up reply actions

actually / why

Actually there are many Blogabull posters who wanted Hinrich traded (although I admittedly don't know race of those)

Why would Hinrich be better off coming off bench? He is their best PG and perimeter defender? I'm not saying he's perfect but he's obviously a good enough to start on Bulls

I'm not doubting there might be some racism in play in people's attitudes towards certain players but I think most fans just wish Ben Gordon was taller so Bulls backcourt was not so undersized

by NY Chicago Fan on Jul 17, 2007 3:49 PM CDT up reply actions

Kirk

is not a point guard. HE wasn't one at kansas or the bulls thats why duhon got so many minutes. Kirk was at the 2. I don't wanna trade Hinrich. (GOOD Player GREAT CONTRACT. He's better off the bench because you he would have a defined role instead of flip-flopping back between a no penetration PG to a no REAL offense game to speak of SG. Off the bench he could play with Gordon or replace him on those off nights.

by Blacknight23 on Jul 17, 2007 4:00 PM CDT up reply actions

The Game chose him !

by Diabolo on Jul 19, 2007 6:06 AM CDT up reply actions

and the most random comment award goes to.......

by milesgmsu on Jul 19, 2007 8:36 AM CDT up reply actions

Thanks for the award...

although I don't think I deserve it, to be honest.

The Game chose him !

by Diabolo on Jul 19, 2007 10:24 AM CDT up reply actions

He was

the first two years he played. They shifted him to Shooting guard because of the other guards they had his junior year. He was the best shooter of the bunch.

by KT on Jul 17, 2007 6:15 PM CDT up reply actions