Will Kobe Be Available? (UPDATED)
[UPDATE: Kobe has 'demanded' a trade from the Lakers.]
I know that whole message boards have gone on tangents attempting to define a superstar, and I don't want that to happen here. I also don't want this discussion to get hijacked by the question of whether or not a team needs a superstar to win a championship. I believe that while the team needs a few upgrades, it is possible for them to win a championship or two, although I think you need a dominating offensive weapon to establish a dynasty. Still, no matter your position on that debate, all would be interested in acquiring a superstar- a top ten player, a dominating offensive/defensive force.
Kobe Bryant is obviously such a player. And he had interest, at one time, in coming to the Bulls (precisely in the one offseason when we stank where they didn't have the money to sign him without going over the cap.) And he is now disgruntled with the Lakers: http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2884339.
Does this mean that LA is going to give him up, even for two of the Bulls core? No. Its doubtful that LA would ever consider trading Kobe, after shipping out Shaq and PJ to accommodate him and centering their marketing effort after him.
And Kobe is not likely to truly demand a trade. LA is assumed to hire West anyways, will probably try to trade some future for some present, although Jim Buss is still unwilling to relinquish Andrew Bynum.
But it is possible. If the Lakers aren't able to get a Kevin Garnett or Jermain O'Neal this offseason, and make only minor moves that prove ineffective, then Kobe is likely to want to get a move out. He knows his reputation as a ballhog, as a selfish brat who pushed out the player most likely to win him a title, and knows his time as a superstar is limited. While he will be 30 next year, this next year will be his 12th in the NBA's rigorous 82-game schedule, and he's played a lot of minutes with a lot of pressure on him. His insatiable competitiveness is unsatisfied with finishing in a six spot and losing to the Suns in 5.
I wouldn't even have suggested this had not Kobe been so enamored with the Bulls the first time around. He really seemed to appreciate Paxson and Skiles and desire to play in Chicago, where superstars are idolized. Maybe there's some MJ wannabe that factors in. But he did express that wish clearly, and now he is clearly expressing unhappiness in LA.
I have thrown in as many caveats as possible to make it clear that I DO NOT believe Kobe will ever play for Chicago. But I think it's possible, if the stars get together in the right way, if the Lakers manage to truly piss off Kobe and Kobe decides he MUST get out of town. So my questions for the public are twofold: First of all, what would you be willing to give up to reel in Kobe? Second of all, how do you think the Bulls would fare after having made such sacrifices? Be realistic in what they'd have to give up, even if Kobe was publicly eviscerating the Laker organization. And recognize that its not happening this offseason, so there are some variables which are unclear. But overall, I think it would be useful to consider what Kobe would be worth to our team and how our makeup would change, if only to get a better grasp of evaluating how much you value the current Bulls.
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I would give up
Sue, I like yue.
I hope this trade talk dissolves quickly.
by NittanyBull on May 27, 2007 10:34 PM CDT up reply actions
Ditto for me
Just as bad, having grown up a Blazers fan I would have a really hard time cheering for the Lakers - I'd be screwed whether Kirk stayed a Bull or got traded in the deal for Kobe. ;)
What would you say then . . .
gosh that superstar stuff is annoying...
by Paxson Jackson @ Blog a Bull on May 27, 2007 10:33 PM CDT reply actions
No one wants to play?
The +9, Noc, Gordon, Duhon (F the salary cap).
Starting 5
Wallace
TT
Deng
Kobe
Hinrich
Bulls win the title in 2008.
Look, I know we like our team ball here in Bullsland, but Kobe is an all-time-great caliber player.
Maybe, but . . .
For purposes of fantasyland, I'd give up the aforementioned and look forward to winning the title.
Might I remind you
only
root for the jersey.
by mike bornemann @ Blog a Bull on May 31, 2007 11:47 AM CDT up reply actions
Kobe haters.
One thing that I would like to point out is Kirk's skills would be highlighted if he is ever paired with a guard with Kobe's ability. And yes trade would equal a championship.
If kobe was available
Kobe in La and his character
Either way it probably wont happen but if it did, I sure would't mind.
A little more likely
I know that Gordon is an amazing scorer, but his height/defensive shortcomings create a weakness for the Bulls on both ends of the floor (Kirk has to guard bigger 2s and gets tired and runs the team less effectively). If Gerald Wallace can extend his range to become a credible three point threat, it would seem to be a good swap for the Bulls.
Why
Making the idea more possible
I sort of anticipated some of the anti-Kobe sentiment here, with all the recent love-fest with the 'team' game philosophy. But we won six championships with the greatest individual basketball talent ever, and while he adjusted to play with a team, both the Bulls of the '80s or the '90s were clearly focused on and initiated nearly all of their offense through Jordan. So Sue and Nittany, were you complaining about the Bulls lack of a team game when Michael was here? Did you want to dump MJ for a a more varied group of lesser talents?
No, Kobe's not Michael, but he is a great individual talent, and if we surround him with some of the Hinrich/Gordon/Deng/Tyrus/BWal group, I think we'll be championship contenders every year, and probably better off than we are today.
I think we'd be willing to give up Gordon, Thomas, Thabo and all other bench players: Noce, Duhon, Khryapa. While this is not fair value, it might be more reasonable next year if Kobe's threatening to leave as a free agent. Also, Pax would likely explore dumping salary to attract Kobe is he did actually opt out. Again, all of this speculative, and not where the Bulls will likely go. But for god's sake, this is a daily blog devoted to the Bulls - if its theoretically reasonable, albeit unlikely, I think its worth discussing. Being that Kobe has just made his declaration, and that Kobe loved the Bulls at some point, I think it deserves exploring - hopefully by Pax, but certainly by us.
"Love" for Chi
I did not
Hahahah
by Knowledge32 on May 31, 2007 11:02 AM CDT up reply actions
I'm not a Jordan fan either,
by Paxson Jackson @ Blog a Bull on May 31, 2007 11:04 AM CDT up reply actions
HOW IS THIS
Matt
I do not care about him.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 31, 2007 2:11 PM CDT up reply actions
I am
Amen K-32
can't be the greatest player EVER
by Paxson Jackson @ Blog a Bull on May 31, 2007 2:05 PM CDT up reply actions
Pax
He was obviously the greatest NBA player of
Those who claim he isn't are typically contrarians looking to prove their nonpareil basketball "genius" by pointing to some esoteric player from a forgotten era as the true greatest of all time.
Moreover, in my opinion, all Bulls fans should appreciate Jordan. Every truly great memory, every championship, every iconic moment the franchise has ever emjoyed is attributable to MJ. He took a foundering expansion team and made them a dynasty. Bulls fans should respect that and acknowledge it, much like Americans should recognize the founding fathers.
I understand why people didn't "like" MJ as a person, though. He could be abrasive and ultra-competitive. Personally, I admire that quality. But I can see why others don't.
meh
I've only heard Mark Jackson's Kobe argument, and Wilt Chamberlain. If you care enough about hyperbole and NBA history (the NBA/ABA merger was a whopping 40 years ago) nothing is esoteric. Not that Wilt is an obscure player, and I really don't care about a player's legacy.
by Paxson Jackson @ Blog a Bull on May 31, 2007 3:54 PM CDT up reply actions
you need a Bulls coffee table book
by Paxson Jackson @ Blog a Bull on May 31, 2007 4:12 PM CDT up reply actions
know that
by Paxson Jackson @ Blog a Bull on May 31, 2007 4:16 PM CDT up reply actions
That's true.
For all intents and purposes, Jordan created the Bulls franchise, as we know it.
Does Jordan help the Bulls today when the team walks on the court? No, not directly. However, given the attendance history of the franchise prior to 1984, I would venture to say that we wouldn't be leading the league in attendance this year if not for the Jordan championship runs. Similarly, the Jordan era vastly improved the national and international recognition of the team, which undoubtedly had (and continues to have) a dramatic impact on advertising and merchandising revenues. Ask most people from Europe or Asia about the Bulls, and "Jordan" is still the first word out of their mouths. Jordan forged the identity of the Bulls franchise and vaulted it from a sleepy midwestern afterthought to an international phenomenon with a widespread and devoted fanbase.
Setting aside the continuing fiscal and marketing impact, Jordan simply provided the fans with a plethora of fantastic memories. For at least a full decade, he held the entire city of Chicago in his thrall, at a time when its sports fans had little else to cling to (the occassional good Hawks team, pathetic baseball squads, and a Bears establishment in premature decline).
Basically, Chicago was home to the world's most dominant, spectacular, recognizable, popular athlete during the late 1980's and most of the 1990's. There's very little not to like about that experience.
your ideas are intruiging
But like I said, he's not a Bulls player anymore, so I really don't care. And I don't want him ever to be a part of the franchise since he did everything he could to trash it upon leaving, which didn't exactly help the rebuilding of the team that buys the laundry that I'm rooting for. Plus he seems to leave much to be desired as a non-player anyway, so bonus.
Really, I don't see the point in saying 'it sure was swell when Jordan was around' anymore, ever. There's a statue right outside for semi-regular genuflection.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 31, 2007 6:01 PM CDT up reply actions
Can't lay it all on Mike.
All that being said Jordan himself didn't trash the franchise. It was a combination of the Jerrys, Jackson, Jordan and Pippin. All of them to the end had egos and the fans got screwed. Aside from Jackson they all would have made out a lot better had they found a way to put their differences aside.
If only I read books
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jun 1, 2007 9:40 AM CDT up reply actions
I agree on some points...
a bunch of old people are upset
Speaking of the identity of the Bulls organization, who remembers the Hinrich/Sloan comparison from his rookie year (it's still alive)? Me! Red Kerr and Norm Van Lier are still associated with the Bulls too.
by Paxson Jackson @ Blog a Bull on May 31, 2007 6:34 PM CDT up reply actions
Obviously the only
good one Sue
warning
by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 31, 2007 1:59 PM CDT up reply actions
I'VE SEEN
too late
by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 31, 2007 2:02 PM CDT up reply actions
At least agree
Don't know why you think it's so dumb...
I can acknowledge that Kobe has a ton of basketball talent without liking how he uses it on the court or how he acts off of it.
Chill out WJB
But that assumes someone has always been
And I don't think you can really apply the "loyal fan" argument to this situation - it obviously fits much better with the bandwagon fan who bails during the lean years. I happened to become a fan during the lean years and am enjoying the current prosperity without screaming for an immediate championship or remaining fixated on the Jordan years. But if you want to see me as a lower species of fan because of the whole generational thing, feel free. ;)
Yeah...
More thoughts
there's no way
I would like to point out
Shaq pushed himself out
Not that I know the innerworkings of laker-drama but I think blaming Kobe for everything is a fallacy perpetuated by peoples' general dislike for Kobe and affinity for jokester Shaq.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 29, 2007 9:51 AM CDT up reply actions
Kobe was entering his prime...
It's still too far from actually happening
It's my understanding Kobe recently informed Lakers ownership he'd sanction a trade to one specific team and no other. My source is oblivious to its identity. Logic dictates that team is the Bulls
(emphasis mine)
And to answer the general question of this thread: yes yes yes yes the should trade for Kobe if given the opportunity. Pax is 100x the GM that Mitch Kupchak is, and I believe building a championship team around Kobe is much easier than doing the same around what the Bulls currently have.
There's the usual problem with matching salaries though...they probably would have to deal Hinrich and sign a vet PG with the MLE.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 29, 2007 9:47 AM CDT reply actions
Jalen Rose is a free agent
by Paxson Jackson @ Blog a Bull on May 29, 2007 9:52 AM CDT up reply actions
Just read the same story
I guess what's best for the Bulls.
You're damn right we should trade for Kobe
He's one of the best three players (if not the best player) in all of basketball.
Personally, I hate the son of a biotch, but if he puts on the red and white, I can very quickly forgive him for his transgressions.
And, although he is aging a bit, he is still in his prime.
P.S. Who would the Bulls have to give up for
I assume we would have to give away Luol and at least one of the core guards.
by 1958ChiTown on May 29, 2007 11:45 AM CDT up reply actions
tyrus, and the pick too
by Paxson Jackson @ Blog a Bull on May 29, 2007 11:54 AM CDT up reply actions
Would the Lakers want Tyrus?
I agree that this is extraordinaly unlikely to occur. It's just fun to speculate.
by 1958ChiTown on May 29, 2007 12:23 PM CDT up reply actions
nutty was meant
Kwame is off the books after next season, and it's doubtful the Lakers are interested in bringing him back. Thomas is cheap, young, and versatile. He isn't the ideal power forward in the West, but if the Lakers trade Kobe it's officially rebuilding time. Youth and massive amounts of potential are the most value the Lakers could get in return for Kobe. It wouldn't matter how all the players fit next season.
Has Phil Jackson weighed in on this yet?
by Paxson Jackson @ Blog a Bull on May 29, 2007 12:35 PM CDT up reply actions
as much as i love skiles
Kobe WILL Demand Trade!
by A Train Afro 53 on May 30, 2007 10:06 AM CDT reply actions
more news?
by Paxson Jackson @ Blog a Bull on May 30, 2007 10:14 AM CDT up reply actions
PaxJax
His squelching of THAT trade demand doesn't affect THIS one.
Check out Truehoop for a good idea of what's cooking.
Thanks, champ
by Paxson Jackson @ Blog a Bull on May 31, 2007 8:33 AM CDT up reply actions
KOBE JUST DEMANDED TO BE TRADED
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2886927
(idk how to do it where it can say stuff but theres the link)
Kobe sounded pissed off and really wanting a trade. Kobe to Chicago? Maybe...
You beat me to it
I want realistic trade offers.
Is this one: Tyrus, Gordon, Sef, & sign and trade of Noce??
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/traderesult?players=2381~3028~3032~110&teams=13~13~13~4
I hate the Loul idea but
Come on
I think you're right.
In the end, though, it wouldn't matter, because we are in the diluted East. In the West, Kobe alone isn't enough, but in the East, Kobe surrounded by just a few other decent players would likely get the Bulls to the Finals.
by 1958ChiTown on May 30, 2007 12:41 PM CDT up reply actions
I think you're right
by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 30, 2007 12:42 PM CDT up reply actions
you're probably right
Noc
Doesn't seem like a tough call to me.
He is a Hall of Fame player in his prime.
I guess you could argue that the relative age of the two players makes it a more difficult decisions, since Luol should be able to contribute for the next decade, while Kobe only has four or five great years left.
Still, it's Kobe. I think Paxson would take him.
JMO.
(I'm sure the Lakers will mollify him anyway.)
by 1958ChiTown on May 30, 2007 12:29 PM CDT up reply actions
that's not bad
Pax would still have cap exemptions (and/or if you wanted Malik or PJ back) to shore up the front line. Maybe they could take back a cheap big like Turiaf or Cook just to fill out the roster. Or maybe get the Lakers to throw in their 1st rounder.
But you can't help but envision Hinrich and Deng getting more room on offense with Bryant (who would also become the fabled 'low post prescence') instead of Gordon, that's why I think keeping those two would be necessary.
So something like
Hinrich
Bryant/Sefolosha
Deng/Griffin
MLE/Khryapa/Cook
Wallace/Brown(?)
by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 30, 2007 12:31 PM CDT up reply actions
It's the
That would be quite a lineup, but can we afford to have a complete corpse manning the PF slot?
Even if Kobe isn't traded, could Bynum somehow
You have to think that the Lakers are now going to be willing to trade all of their other players to get Kobe what he wants.
Of course, it would be best if they just traded Kobe to the Bulls. :)
so why do you want a 20 year old project?
I agree with you though, the far more likely scenario is that the Lakers deal everybody else to placate Kobe.
I think the Bulls can sneak their way into getting Odom for spare parts, who would be a very nice fit. Injuries are the big concern but I think it'd be worth the risk.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 30, 2007 12:35 PM CDT up reply actions
I thought Bynum was supposed to be the new
Isn't that why the Lakers refused to trade him to placate Kobe? Isn't he supposed to have some amazing upside?
Maybe I just watched too much Bill Walton commentary on ESPN this season.
by 1958ChiTown on May 30, 2007 12:38 PM CDT up reply actions
supposedly that's the reason
by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 30, 2007 12:43 PM CDT up reply actions
Jalen Rose
As far as all this Kobe nonsense goes, couldn't he have demanded a trade when the Bulls had contracts (Peej, Sweetney) to deal? I would like to think the Bulls hang on to Wallace, and 2 of GDH.
by Paxson Jackson @ Blog a Bull on May 30, 2007 1:18 PM CDT up reply actions
Do you really believe the Bulls could get a 28
Don't get me wrong, it would be fantastic if that happened, but I doubt the Lakers would accept it.
They would be giving up one of the best players of all time. I imagine they would at least want Deng and Gordon in return.
If it's a real demand from Kobe
by Paxson Jackson @ Blog a Bull on May 30, 2007 1:32 PM CDT up reply actions
yessir
by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 30, 2007 1:41 PM CDT up reply actions
Good point Matt
ah, but...
by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 30, 2007 12:43 PM CDT up reply actions
well...
by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 30, 2007 12:52 PM CDT up reply actions
Don't worry, it's not really going to happen.
by 1958ChiTown on May 30, 2007 12:46 PM CDT up reply actions
put it next to your
by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on May 30, 2007 12:52 PM CDT up reply actions
What do the Lakers do now?
Why do you hate him so?
by 1958ChiTown on May 30, 2007 12:59 PM CDT up reply actions
It might
kobe on bulls
A reason for that
by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 30, 2007 12:51 PM CDT up reply actions
It can't happen until the Finals are over, per
Other than that, I don't think the timing is regulated, though you would imagine the teams would want to have any deals finalized prior to the draft.
by 1958ChiTown on May 30, 2007 12:53 PM CDT up reply actions
shaq trade
by bullshooter on May 30, 2007 12:59 PM CDT up reply actions
not quite
Also I'd say butler/odom is less than gordon/deng, maybe more like gordon/thomas
by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 30, 2007 1:01 PM CDT up reply actions
shaq was also clearly on the downside of his
Ahhhh Matt?
by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on May 30, 2007 12:50 PM CDT reply actions
you sure did
by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 30, 2007 12:55 PM CDT up reply actions
alright then
by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on May 30, 2007 12:57 PM CDT up reply actions
Maybe that's why it was deleted:
would you throw in
by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on May 30, 2007 12:54 PM CDT reply actions
I'd definite;y through in Wallace
just as well
by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 30, 2007 12:58 PM CDT up reply actions
Could the Knicks trade for Kobe?
doubt it
I'd think the Sixers have a shot (with Igoudala), and perhaps Boston (the great Al Jefferson).
Also, 'richer' teams (like the Bulls) have a better shot than the Bobcats or Hawks or Raptors, but that's not based on anything.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 30, 2007 12:57 PM CDT up reply actions
a reach
Problem is outside of Gilbert the Wiz have little in the realm of prospects or picks (16th overall this season). Maybe include Jamison for Odom to give the Lakers further cap relief (and a pretty good player).
by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 30, 2007 3:51 PM CDT up reply actions
thats a hugeeeeee trade
and get rid of deshaun...damn i hate him
I don't think they're dangerous at all
And I disagree they need a 'bruce bowen'. They need a shot-swatting big man, and/or likely need to give up on Jamison as the starting 4 sooner or later.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 30, 2007 4:56 PM CDT up reply actions
they also have one of the top offenses
if they could get a defensive stopper, either a wingman or an inside man, he could probably add 3 wins to the total.
Finally the team is dangerous because when they are on, they are the best team in the game. could they win the chip without defense; of course not. Could they upset someone.....defentely
Woukd he even accept a trade to the Knicks?
DO NOT INCLUDE
by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on May 30, 2007 12:58 PM CDT reply actions
Keep in mind Kobe has a no-trade clause
That is true
I'd offer LA Noc (resigned), Wallace and
kobe will not be a bull
throw in the #9 pick (after the lakers tell us who they want plus that evens the salarys after signing...), and our 2009 first round pick
we get kobe, 2010 first round pick, and the lakers 2nd round pick (48)
Dan Patrick
by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on May 30, 2007 1:17 PM CDT reply actions
That's interesting.
I imagine that Kobe would be thrilled with that. It would immediately put him on a contending team with all of the pieces in place.
I wonder if Dallas would do it?
But they would be comprensated by getting
Any capologists think
by Paxson Jackson @ Blog a Bull on May 30, 2007 1:28 PM CDT reply actions
why would Kobe acpect
by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on May 30, 2007 1:30 PM CDT up reply actions
accept
by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on May 30, 2007 1:30 PM CDT up reply actions
Yep
by Paxson Jackson @ Blog a Bull on May 30, 2007 1:33 PM CDT up reply actions
I think he is referring to a menage-a-Kobe.
this was done quickly
chicago sends its #9 to Memphis; along wiht 2nd rounders, and 2009 first rounder
LAL get 2008 and 2010 memphis first rounders
not perfect but its a start
I tweaked
memphis would need to get the #9 pick
they already have stromile swift and hakim warrick and rudy gay who are the same type of player as tyrus
I don't remember who suggested that memphis come on, but I'm not a proponent of that
Salary wise, the trade for kobe and kobe alone is reletivley easy. 3M for du, 4M for Ben, 2M for the pick, 3M for tyrus, then noch would cover the rest, or signing someone like PJ or sweets to a huge one year deal (which LAL would love to free up salary space)....its not that hard. Finally, if the bulls sign BG to an extension, it probably adds 1.5 - 2M on his trade value because of the poison pill prevention
hey capologist
by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 30, 2007 2:58 PM CDT up reply actions
of course they don't
thats why so few deals are done in the early portion of the offseason, and draft night is haywire
then why did you say
Are you saying they draft and then sign the pick than THEN trade it? I'm pretty sure you can't do that, but I suggest we both check.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 30, 2007 3:05 PM CDT up reply actions
trade value
Draft picks (both first and second round) count $0 for salary matching purposes. This is true both before and after the draft, until the player signs a contract. This can make it very difficult to construct a trade that is equitable in both trade value and basketball talent. For example, Vancouver selected Steve Francis with the #2 pick in the 1999 draft, and traded his draft rights to Houston. When the trade was finally engineered, it included three teams (Orlando was also involved), 11 players (including Francis) and two future draft picks.
Once the draft pick signs a contract, his actual salary becomes his trade value.
I beleive that means that we would draft whomeever ; sign; then trade him away immediately
either way its only 2M...throw in malik allan (resigned) or AG and it makes up the value
well, every million helps
by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 30, 2007 3:11 PM CDT up reply actions
kobe on dan patrick espn 1000
heh
by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 30, 2007 1:40 PM CDT up reply actions
Guys SERIOUSLY THINK
BG7 > K.O.B.E. in rap skill
BG7 also has Myoplex which makes you feel 50 feet tall. This needs to be accounted into the trades.
Henry Abbott alluded to trading Kobe for
The Bulls would have no remaining frontcourt in that scenario.
Not to mention, the Lakers won't accept Wallace's contract, one would think.
I'd rather trade Deng and Gordon
I agree.
The Lakers get two young, rising players with some proven skills, neither of whom is a "project." They would have promising, youthful balance with Gordon at guard, Deng at forward, and Bynum at center.
Meanwhile, the Bulls would have a great backcourt with Kobe and Hinrich, a proven defensive center in Wallace, and a young athletic forward in Tyrus. They would have to add one piece through the MLE.
SF?
Hinrich
Kobe
Lewis
Thomas
Wallace
All b/w 6'3 and 6'10, athletic(Kirk excepted) and I think drafting a post player wouldn't be necessary.
where; pray tell
technically it IS 'we'
don't sweat the tax if the team is awesome.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 31, 2007 1:52 PM CDT up reply actions
Trade Hinrich, Deng
(please note, the above is a facetious comment).
trade
Obv gordon is gone....kobe will replace him and it gives the lakers a cheap option for this year, and then resign him in the future
Tyrus is gone too; he has the most potental, and could be a star
gordon and tyrus for kobe wont cut it. We're then looking at giving up Deng, Noch + #9, or #9 and and future picks
We can't give up thabo and tyrus because too much is depending upon those guys in the future
Deng and Hinrich and Wallace for contractual and team based purposes will be staying
So the #9, and then if the lakers want noch, noch; if they don't a lot of future draft picks
3 or 4 year window for championships; then a few lean years with only hinrich and deng (we'll ahve few draft picks and only thabo in term of ypungsters), and we'll be something like the nets - a middling team until we can get some more picks and the cycle is restarted
or just not do the trade
Sue, I am starting to agree with you
Sue,
But if trading a core of Gordon, Ty, the 9 pick and salaries gives us a championship-caliber team NEXT SEASON (we'd almost certainly come out of the terrible, terrible East), I willing to sell my soul to the devil.
Maybe you're just more principled than I.
No Way
by Grass on May 30, 2007 1:57 PM CDT reply actions
you can probably replace thabo for tyrus
bottom line is that the lakers will be rebuilding so they would need to stockpile potnetial and picks
Mostly because I think he's largely an unknown
Someone's got to mention the downside . . .
by Kobe's account
by Paxson Jackson @ Blog a Bull on May 30, 2007 2:15 PM CDT up reply actions
heh
by Paxson Jackson @ Blog a Bull on May 30, 2007 2:17 PM CDT up reply actions
good point on skiles/kobe
and why i'm not replying is this:
You don't do the trade if u have to give up deng. Deng is going to be good on his lonesome, and to give up Deng + gordon + extras = kobe is asanine. The only trade that makes the bulls a better team on the whole is taking the solid 8 man rotation, upgrading on gordon, and losing out tyrus and finding a 4 via the MLE or minor trade
Hinrich, Wallace, and Deng all must remain bulls for the kobe trade to make sense
I strongly disagree with the
Deng is a good player now and perhaps someday he will be a great player, but he possesses a limited game. He is a jump shooter with mediocre ball handling skills and an inability to creat his own shot. His defense is often suspect.
Kobe Bryant is already a first ballot Hall of Famer! And he is in his prime. How many times did he drop 50 last season? He can shoot the jumper, hit the three, play in the post, pass the ball, drive to the basket, generate free throws, and play great defense.
In the East, Kobe alone is enough to get to the Finals. Look at what Cleveland is doing this season. They have LeBron and...and...and...and f'in no one! Yet they are two wins away from the Finals!
it's not about equal value
by Paxson Jackson @ Blog a Bull on May 30, 2007 2:29 PM CDT up reply actions
I understand your point, but I simply disagree
Certainly, there will be some pressure on the Lakers to deal Kobe. However, I doubt that they will do anything particularly brash because Kobe is under contract for two more seasons. It's not as if he can leave imminently without any compensation for the Lakers at all. He can create discord, obviously, but he really can't afford to be apathetic during the two years that are arguably the best in an NBA player's life (29, 30). So I would imagine he'd continue to play hard in a Lakers' jersey next season.
He said in the interview with Dan Patrick
Regardless of that
by Paxson Jackson @ Blog a Bull on May 30, 2007 2:39 PM CDT up reply actions
Sam Smith neglects to
The Bulls (with Kobe) would not lose in the first round of the playoffs to some Eastern conference dreg.
Now Smith may very well be right about the Lakers' refusal to ever trade Kobe. I doubt they will do it as well.
another reason they wouldn't be the lakers
That said, being in the East hardly makes me feel much better if they're a crappy team.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 30, 2007 2:59 PM CDT up reply actions
Cleveland is a pretty crappy team.
And it's not as if the current Bulls team has demonstrated the ability to advance to the Finals and destroy the Western Conference representative.
I think Sam Smith wrote that yesterday
It would still be weak team
by Paxson Jackson @ Blog a Bull on May 30, 2007 3:05 PM CDT up reply actions
jazz by all accounts shoudlnt there
in fact you could probably rank utah 5th in terms of power out west...maybe even 6 if denver had gotten its act together
i think that's what he means
by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 30, 2007 3:13 PM CDT up reply actions
Didn't I say
by Paxson Jackson @ Blog a Bull on May 30, 2007 3:13 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm not sure that a team featuring
I agree
But yes I'd consider Gordon AND Deng to be too much unless the Lakers actually could find something comperable somewhere else. I highly doubt that.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 30, 2007 3:19 PM CDT up reply actions
if the lakers find a deal comproable
and my Sam linking
by Paxson Jackson @ Blog a Bull on May 30, 2007 3:06 PM CDT up reply actions
Yeah
including paxjax response
the bulls offense is predicated upon moving the ball (wait for laughs); it's clear that kobe wants to win, but doesn't know how to with dleaguers all around him. By keeping hinrich and deng not only do we have a fantastic starting 5, but kirk can bring the ball up or kobe can and dish or shoot, deng for solid mid range game and cutting, and then a decent 4 man to play along big ben....theoretically its perfect
if you give up deng, not only do u have the issue of guarding (putting alot of pressure on the bench after moving thabo up) but all the offense will come from kobe and kirk...its a slight improvement on the lakers
Finally, Kirk's numbers should skyrocket with the additon of Kobe. Wether kobe deserves all defense or not, he is 6'6" and a better defender than BG. Kobe can play the big guards, and hinrich will revert back to the PG's where he can smoke the PGs, or double with kobe against bad pg teams (Atl, Mia, Orlando etc) and neutralize the entire back court; or even move kobe up on the SF, Deng on the 4, and let wallace or tyrus maybe roam....
while i'm not for adding kobe (i dont like his style, or his personality), for the sake of argument theorteically the team ebcomes much more dangerous by essentially forgoing a few lottery picks and ben gordon upgrading into one of the premier players in the game
and we'll get an all star
trade
Move Thabo into the starting line up.
PG Thabo
SG Kobe
SF Deng
PF Tyrus
C Ben
Thats a good lineup
by DannyRange on May 30, 2007 5:29 PM CDT up reply actions
Thabo... the point guard?
Besides, doesn't Kirk have a Magical Untradable Contract?
heh
by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 31, 2007 9:31 AM CDT up reply actions
My impression
I think...
In my opinion, he is more a 1 or 3, than a 2 (because of his shot). Then again, I haven't seen him shoot the ball the last couple of years.
P.S. I'm from his hometown.
So far
Kobe called Mitch today and said that he wanted to be dealt.
Kobe just said he would waive his no-trade. He said he would play anywhere (even Atlanta Dan asked jokingly)
Now talking about Shaq quote
Kobe is not looking at teams
Kobe said if West came back and Phil stayed it would help him stay in LA. Kobe knows who the inside is that said that Kobe ran Shaq out
They talking more about his frustrations. Now talking about a player that might make Kobe stay.
Sounds like he just lost his temper . . .
You can hear
http://sports.espn.go.com/espnradio/player?station=espn&launch=true
wow then this has been a great waste of my
by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on May 30, 2007 2:46 PM CDT reply actions
Kobe just wants the Lakers to make moves.
by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on May 30, 2007 3:09 PM CDT reply actions
this shit's crazy!!!
You can say whatever you want about him, that he is a horrible person or whatever. Bottom line though is he wants to win as bad as anyone else in the league and he works hard.
How much does Paxson love his little effort to make the bulls competitve? which I think he has done a good job with. Hopefully not too much.
From TrueHoop:
ok this is gay
by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on May 30, 2007 3:24 PM CDT up reply actions
don't have to let us know
by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 30, 2007 3:47 PM CDT up reply actions
Glad to know we're all mature here
Oh well.
(I just hope Tyrus is at the gym working on that jumper.)
who's playing again tonight?
by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on May 30, 2007 3:29 PM CDT up reply actions
well
by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 30, 2007 3:48 PM CDT up reply actions
phil jackson?
Phil said that in his book!
wtf?
Amazing that one of the most talented athletes in the world could be so ... petty.
Since the story came out hours ago, I always sort of thought he wasn't going to end up being traded. But I figured, at least, he was angling to have management bring in better players. Turns out, it wasn't even that - he just wants some low-level employee to be fired.
This is getting downright weird.
by Bayern Munich on May 30, 2007 3:45 PM CDT reply actions
Shooting God or Guard Mr. Kobe
by DannyRange on May 30, 2007 5:25 PM CDT reply actions
it won't happen.
by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on May 30, 2007 5:40 PM CDT up reply actions
this is all crazy, crazy
And the number of comments, wow...........
Phil of the Future!
by A Train Afro 53 on May 30, 2007 6:50 PM CDT reply actions
You can bet
Probably
Lakers suck.
by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on May 30, 2007 7:50 PM CDT reply actions
Kobe's retraction
by LD9 on May 30, 2007 10:04 PM CDT reply actions
Kobe's best strategy
I agree with you though, that this is a long-term situation that will continue to fester.
ummm so
by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on May 30, 2007 11:14 PM CDT reply actions
I think
He's a drama queen
Sue
Wow, you're a dick
Do i want kobe on teh bulls
I will begin with i dont like kobe, greatest player in the nba at the moment without a doubt, and yet he just doesnt have mentality of "whatever it takes for the team to win", instead he has the mentality of, "whatever it takes for ME to get the win". Of course that is debatable, but it is generally how i feel. Not to mention that he really tries hard to be like his airness (the toungue, the hair, the way he speaks to the media, the playing style, and lets not forget wearing 24). His ego might be the only thing that surpasses his ability to play.
That is why i dont like kobe, but there is no doubt he is still the best in the game right now.
Trading for kobe brings up the question of (to quote sue's sig) who will stay, and who will go. When i re-started watching the bulls in 2004, i was just a bulls fan. However by the middle of the 2005 season, i definetly became a hinrich fan. So what if hinrich is involved in the trade for kobe? Would i then watch more laker games to watch hinrich keep the lakers on the map. What if hinrich wasnt traded, but gordon and luol deng were, would suddenly the loss of two core memebers, and the addition of a superstar change "bulls basketball". I like "bulls basketball" i like the concept of passing the ball around, playing hard defense, never giving up basketball. I like seeing the concept of teamwork, i like seeing a team of once no-names, become a team of underated stars, just waiting for a chance to bloom into allstars. i like watching a team of role players evolve into great players that might suddenly break the role playing mold.
Having kobe would change the world of bulls basketball, and though change is often inevitable, i dont think im ready for that change until i am certain the bulls cannot compete with the "better" teams.
hehe
Just a question..
If kobe joined the bulls
Lets say we draft yi, and he becomes that great player you feel he would, though right now i am saying i rather not have yi, if he did become so great to truly win us that championship, i would definetly be proud of the bulls the whole.
However the difference is, by getting yi, we essentially hold onto who the bulls are, and get to see them evolve as yi gets better. With kobe i see the playing style change, no longer is it team ball, but it would be give the ball to kobe. Even if hinrich wasnt traded, and we lost deng and gordon and tyrus, i dont know if i could really watch basketball anymore.
As for hinrich, well read my profile to find out the significance of him.
I am sure you are a greater fan than me, you probably watched teh bulls after the dynasty was demolished, and watched the craptastic team of the new millenium, and watched the rookie year of kirk, but on my own behalf the only basketball team i have ever truly been a fan of is the bulls.
If i get disgusted with the way they are going, i might stop watching basketball, and if hinrich were traded i might keep tabs on how well he was doing elsewhere, or watch some clips of him in action, but the only TEAM i would ever root for is the bulls.
I dont think im the only one who feels this way, but if you feel that i am wrong (and thus anything i say about the draft is wrong too ;/ ) then i am sorry i am not as loyal to the bulls as you.
Honestly
As far as captain Kirk... he is one of the top 10 pgs in the game and it would be hard to make a trade and get a piece back worth what he brings. If we make a trade from the core I would rather it be Gordon. I could go into my reasons but will save that for another post. I am not in favor of gutting the team to bring in Kobe or any other player. Most trades I see purposed involve 2 core players, both rookies, Noce, and this years first round pick. Not what I would like to see happen.
If you do not want to be questioned regarding your fanaticism, then you really shouldn't throw it down like an ultimatum in a public forum. That was the only point I had with my previous post.
Just a side note.
"The Yi Jianlian games have begun. Yi is foregoing the physical-only portion of the camp -- the first time I remember seeing that move by a player.
Yi is not injured and he's not in China. He's pulling out to maintain control of the process.
Both his agent, Dan Fegan, and the Chinese government want to make sure Yi lands on the "right" team. So Yi will work out for only a few select teams.
Yi's Orlando maneuver means that the other teams in the league won't even have the results of a physical to look at, which might further discourage them from draft Yi.
Don't be shocked if Golden State or Chicago finds a way to move up and grab Yi. They seem to be the two "approved" teams most interested."

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