Official(and only) NBA DRAFT thread.
by 1958ChiTown on Apr 8, 2008 12:31 PM CDT
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PrintI'm just going to keep re-freshing this diary every so often, as the only place for draft talk. -Matt
Probably so, but that won't stop me from linking to this Chad Ford article on the best prospects in the 2008 draft! Sweet.
Not suprisingly, he lists Beasley as the best prospect, but one wonders if the Bulls truly need yet another 6-9 power forward?
What about taking OJ Mayo and trading away Gordon or Hinrich?
I don't suspect any of these players would have the immediate impact that most Bulls' fans crave, but perhaps I am underestimating this draft class.
Hopefully, the Bulls turn things around and draft analysis becomes a moot issue.
FanPosts are user-created posts from the BlogABull community, and are to be treated as the opinions and views of that particular user, not that of the blogger or blog community as a whole.
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I think the Bulls will come around.
by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on Nov 20, 2007 5:17 PM CST reply actions
OJ Mayo
On Mayo and Floyd
Mayo seems like a complete head case to me. I don't like the head on his shoulders. His game is awesome, but that mind of his has trouble written all over it.
by NBA Observer on Nov 20, 2007 6:05 PM CST up reply actions
I'd take that over Hinrich right now.
by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on Nov 20, 2007 10:41 PM CST reply actions
Hinrich sucks
and no it is not too early to talk about the draft. I hope we draft Hibbert. Come December 15 (when noc and Smith can be traded) a trade will be made to improve the backcourt, leaving the frontcourt as the bigest problem.... Is Noah supposed to be our center of the future?? Ben wallace is garbage ,I like what i've seen from Noah, but expect him to get eaten alive by veteran centers. and at 6'11 he is the bull's tallest guy (well that i care about at least) and that is way too short for an already short team.
the trade that i reference above will hopefully bring gilbert arenas to the bulls. for hinrich noc, joe smith, and possibly a draft pick
by Zac23 on Nov 21, 2007 6:46 PM CST up reply actions
Gilbert is out ...
yea just saw that too...
by Zac23 on Nov 22, 2007 9:40 AM CST up reply actions
arrrgghh! The Hibbert talk again...
"He was a big fan of Pokémon," [Dwayne] Bryant said in a telephone interview. "During games we used to tell him, `Power up, big fella. Power up.' Then he'd kind of get this look on his face like he was going to get busy."
Hmm. Maybe it's just me, but I wouldn't expect a guy like Skiles to stock Pokemon references in his box of motivational tools.
Hibbert: "Coach, I'm not into the game."
Skiles: "Power up, Roy boy! I choose you!"
Hibbert: "Oh, it's on now."
um.. yeah...
by Hiryu on Nov 27, 2007 1:48 PM CST up reply actions
Oh because he'll be a top 3 pick,
At the rate the bulls are going
Okay your right, that seems wrong, how about 34 wins at teh end of the season...still lottery bound though.
I with you my brotha
And also fire Skiles.
just in at the buzzer
Boy will be remembered for constantly repeating himself with superstar rhetoric and crapping every player on the current team. Which is somewhat fine (well, not the repeating oneself).
What's not fine is openly rooting for Bulls losses, especially way before tanking season.
And that concludes the circus trip commenter execution game.
(I really wouldn't have done it if I knew they'd win once. I feel somewhat sad it blasted away so many, but all executed parties can reincarnate in the BlogABull afterlife, hopefully with more mindful thoughts. mindful of me, anyway.)
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 27, 2007 5:34 PM CST up reply actions
Draft talk was much more fun the past few years
According to the Sun-Times
http://www.suntimes.com/sports/colleges/732203,CST-SPT-demon09.article
what the hell
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 10, 2008 9:54 PM CST up reply actions
Did anyone think of this yet
He is 7'7 i believe.
Yeah, and then
No, not the Tyler Hansbroughs...
If the Bulls end up with a lower lottery pick, I would love to see them get this guy. He's double and triple teamed every game UNC plays, and still manages to put up great numbers. In today's overtime win vs FSU he was 12-14 from the free throw line, and had 22 rebounds to go with his 21 points. He is one-man gang in the post.
wasn't a knock on Hansbrough
i don't watch enough college ball to make any decisions about players but no doubt Tyler is talented. i'm just saying we shouldn't spend a pick on a 7'7 guy who doesn't know what he's doing.
Sorry. I didn't mean to imply you did.
Most draft sites say Hansbrough will go around number 20. Some have the Bulls taking Hibbert, some Budinger. I don't know if Hansbrough will make it big in the pros. He's strong but undersized to play power forward, and with his inside game he might not be able to the basket. That's why I like to see his dunks on 7 and ½ footers.
hansbrough
I know for that for every success stories there are 10 counter examples, but I am just saying that sometimes people look way too much into athletic traits in evaluating nba players success, cough cough tyrus thomas. that was a cheap shot. the verdict is still out on him.
I completely agree
Hansbrough
Some likeness also to Milsap. I say he'll be a solid NBA player at PF and a good draft pick.
I haven't seem if he can get a 10-12 foot shot off against taller defenders (similiar to Carlos Boozer)? If he has this skill he'll be even better..
I've studied shorter PFs
- Height. It's not the end of the world if you're under it, but most of the really successful guys end up being a legit 6'7.5" or higher. Start going under that and you can be successful (Milsap is only 6'6.25" in bare shoes, but he's clearly a notch below the other sort of successful guy. He's a successful role player, they're lynchpin sort of pieces).
- Standing reach. Guys that are unsuccessful tend to be built like tanks Take Shelden Williams and Carlos Boozer. Williams is 6'7.5 and Boozer is 6'7.75". Williams has a 7'4.25" wingspan and Boozer's is only 7'2.25". However, Shelden's only got an 8'8" standing reach while Boozer's is 9'0.25".
3. Lateral quickness and sprinting aren't completely determinative (I don't think any one stat is completely determinative) but the successful guys tend to be at least respectable, whereas the less successful guys tend to lag quite a bit.
Bringing it back to Hansbrough, I'm very interested to know what sort of body type he ends up at. A lot of times I think measurement is overrated, but in his case I think it'll be important.
I think PF
I see that kind of player mentality in Hansbrough. He's crazy tough.
This is all very good analysis
You bring more to this site than most.
I'd be curious to see how Marion fits in to the above pattern - without ever having seen a definitive note of his measurements, I'd guess he's only 6'7" and change, but with long arms (good wingspan AND standing reach). He's obviously much different as far as style of play, too, which can't be ignored - throw him on Utah (to try to take Boozer's spot) and he might suck.
The determinative issue vis-a-vis Hansbrough is how the Bulls finish this season and what they're looking for. If they keep sucking and/or get lucky in the lottery and get a top 6 or 8 pick, you have to think they're looking to get a potential All-Star, a guy who could be the first or second offensive option. If they wind up at the end-of-the-lottery or just outside the lottery range, then a guy (like Hans) who looks like he could be a strong, solid contributor, good on defense and rebounding, but without the All-Star ceiling, might be worth looking into.
Unfortunately, they already have a lot of guys like that, and I'm not sure what Hansbrough would add. You can't have compete with 1 raw, high-jumping Tyrus and 6 role-players.
by Bayern Munich on Feb 11, 2008 2:56 PM CST up reply actions
Hollinger
Right now he's 13th.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 11, 2008 3:05 PM CST up reply actions
I should have specified no shoes
I've just started looking at heights without shoes because so many people tend to try and game things now by showing up in heels.
* Bayern thanks!
I've actually got a database of draft measurements (I hope to get it up sometime on my site, but let's face it, I'm lazy) and Marion measured 6'5" in bare feet and 215lbs before the draft. So yeah, he's a really huge outlier in terms of size for playing the 4, and even a bit undersized for the 3 (he's seemed to play both). I do think he's probably added about 10-15lbs since then, but he's still a totally different kind of guy than the big burly dudes.
Paxs
With Noah, and Gray already on the team, how about scouting some player development personnel?
Hibbert aint no franshise player by any stretch of the imagination.
Ooh! I now get it? Watching college basketball is more fun than watching your Chicago Bulls that's why you went to the game!
Paxson's strategy build a team of character guys (i.e. role players) from good college programs isn't working. Try tweaking your strategy .. instead of character guys but take the team's leader by example from these same programs? Doesn't leadership usually imply character and drive by example imply offense and/or motivation? Triple Play! If you build a team on talented leaders, they won't mope and complain like the bunch on the team now.
Look for motivated, driven, talented (offense), leader type players in the draft.
Stop this stuff about "we believe he will develope" "we believe he will be a leader one day", "we believe he will be a scorer one day". If he ain't one now chances are he won't be one later. Stop trying to be these kids dad believing for them.
Yes
I hated Karl Malone as aplayer (really I liked him until we started playing them in the finals and then I learned to hate him) but I guess he'd be good too.
We'd never get Horace back after Reinsdorf blasted him out of town....
But let's get one of these guys or a similar awesome former talented all star to coach our bigs every day at least in the offseason. I'd much rather see that then what we're getting.
I know we partially paid Ben Wallace to coach our guys, but Ben can't coach offense even when he was a solid player (last season) and thus his help on D is useless for guys who are naturally solid defenders--instictively anyway.
Wow
(Ewing, Olajuwon, even Mourning, or maybe David Robinson, Robert Parrish)
Mourning seems to loves his hometown, and he still wants to play if his body will hold up. If Paxson could lure him and he plays only a very little, or none at all but could teach. Then this would be the guy to have. I believe once he went down, Miami's interior defense was destroyed. He still has so much fire and passion at nearly 40 years old. He could help Noah and Aaron. Maybe Tyrus, but I'm not sure if the Bulls are positioning Ty2 as a 3 or 4?
Yeah
Zo would be awesome, he'd fit the Chicago D-mindset, but he also once upon a time was a solid offensive player too. Still I expect Riley will get first dibs at him, and I'd be shocked if the Bulls could grab him.
I know Cartwright was a decent big man and he was our head coach, but Cartwright was more a jump shooting big man anyway, let's get a banger and show guys like Tyrus (who's future lies in his ability to play near the basket) and Noah (who is the same) how to get the job done.
It's very frustrating. Much as the BEARS have struggled with their big men C's, the Bulls have in recent memory struggled at the C position....(I guess not so much with Rodman and Horace at the 4 spot 10 yrs ago, but of late we really haven't given our bigs enough time to mature in a Bulls uniform, and I also think a lot of that "time to mature" issue is because the Bulls didn't hire a FT great big man coach to assist them....
For one, neither of them
The Bulls are starting to gather more athletic guys. I'd like to see that trend continue. Get waves of athletes.
They need a scorer.
I don't know if that's in the draft or in FA. I'd prefer the draft (I like Lee, Budinger or Rush w/ qualifications), but I know others want more immediate results.
I find myself holding out
if you mention it a few more times today
I agree with this
both the feeling that they're not trying to bring Gordon back, and the need to get a really good scorer at SG to replace him.
Unfortunately, those guys aren't terribly common, and the teams that have them tend to hang on to them. So we draft talent and hope for the best, I guess.
by Bayern Munich on Feb 11, 2008 3:17 PM CST up reply actions
Thabeet
I guess you weren't watching Saturday
by cjurmann on Feb 11, 2008 1:01 PM CST up reply actions
Dalembert?
Chandler is irrelevant at this point.
by cjurmann on Feb 11, 2008 4:00 PM CST up reply actions
The One To Watch!
by A Train Afro 53 on Feb 13, 2008 11:23 PM CST reply actions
Isn't one giant slow guy enough?
by eGirl on Feb 21, 2008 8:32 AM CST up reply actions
I'm sure Mark "Mad Dog" Madsen
by RogersPark Kris on Feb 21, 2008 10:06 AM CST up reply actions
Try makin' the same case
by eGirl on Feb 21, 2008 10:33 AM CST up reply actions
Ha!
by eGirl on Feb 21, 2008 4:37 PM CST up reply actions
That's a touch call
I take Thabeet. His improvement from his freshman to sophomore year has been pretty high, and there's no reason to think someone 7'3, with that kind of athleticism, can't continue to improve.
But I take Brook Lopez over either, in a heart beat. Come on, ping pong balls....
by Freethefro on Feb 21, 2008 10:21 AM CST up reply actions
Thabeet in a heartbeat
7'3" guys who run the floor like he does don't come around often. I'm surprised he's only projected to go mid-lottery in what looks like a pretty mediocre draft.
What are
IF i had to pick
Why? The perfect replacement for ben gordon, similar playing styles, similar abilities, only difference, E is a bit bigger then B. They could just reuse Ben Gordons jersey and and give it to him. I think the biggest fault of Gordon is his Height, so thats why.
Mayo
Mayo is probably the best fit for the Bulls.
Can't think of any stand out point guards in this years draft. Usually the tournament brings out some stellar players tho.
by RogersPark Kris on Mar 3, 2008 10:00 AM CST up reply actions
Yeah, he'd work
by RogersPark Kris on Mar 3, 2008 10:24 AM CST up reply actions
I didn't mention Rose
Just say no
Brook Lopez
...and according to HoopsHype
by eGirl on Mar 2, 2008 10:29 PM CST up reply actions
Brook Lopez... NOOOO!
Pax needs to take a chance on a guy who could blossom into an all-star. In this draft Beasley, Rose, Bayless, Augustine, Randolph and Westbrook qualify. I haven't seen Blake Griffin play. Lopez, Lawson, Jordan, and Gordon do not qualify. Nice players, not future all-stars
by danger mouse on Mar 4, 2008 1:01 PM CST up reply actions
Beasley
Jerryd Bayless
I watch a lot of pac 10, brook lopez is not that good just big enough to put up stats in college. possible backup in the NBA.
by Zac23 on Mar 3, 2008 11:13 AM CST reply actions
I've tried to make this case before,
In the spirit of all the stat guys here, I was trying to look up the college assist totals for the point guards who've eventually made it big in the NBA.
I can't really make a hard and fast statistical statement, but I did notice that guys who've gone on to nba point guard glory were primarily assist leaders, rather than scoring leader in college...Deron Williams and Chris Paul, for example, in the class of 2005.
When I looked ahead to the class of 2006, guess who I found atop the assist board for the entire ncaa? You're right, my old favorite, Marcus Williams.
So, rather than try to draft a point guard, why not swap someone we already have for Williams, and try to fill another position in the draft?
by eGirl on Mar 3, 2008 12:25 PM CST reply actions
Totally agree
To be fair
by Ozzie Montana on Mar 3, 2008 11:28 PM CST up reply actions
I like your idea
And I'm a huge Bayless fan. He goes to my favorite college and went to my high school. So I won't be upset if the Bulls get him. But what we need is a true pg. The Nets obviously aren't high on Williams. You could sign and trade Gordon for Williams and something else.
by danger mouse on Mar 4, 2008 12:56 PM CST up reply actions
I wish Pax could read this
1 - Get a new coach. We all agree that boylan sucks and with him we are not going to win nothing.We need someone who can guide young gyus and make the team play good basketball
2 - try, by all necessary means, acquire Beasley and Rose. both guys are really good and can be stars in the future. if we can trade one, try to find new guys that can become one
3 - use Kirk, Hughes, Noc, Gooden and all the other crap that we have in our roster - BG can stay, but only if he agrees to sign a low contract - to negociate with the teams that will draft Beasley and Rose, because i think that they won't lead us to any championship
4 - secure thabo, tt, deng and noah, the only members of our team that have potencial
5 - sign Marion. If the Heat let us do that, i think we should try get him...
6 - draft a good center, like roy hibbert or something, to compete with noah.
By said that, our roster would be
PG - Rose and Curry/Shannon
SG - BG and Thabo
SF - Deng and Beasley
PF - TT and Marion
C - Noah and other
p.s. sorry for my english, i'm portuguese :D:D:D
Didn't Mike Ditka do something like this
I'm not saying either Rose or Beasley will turn out like Ricky Williams, but, as some here have already mentioned, trading all your assets for one unknown quantity is an awefully big risk.
Where is that cross sporting draft thread, anyway?
you've got it right
I believe Dan Devine did the same thing in Green Bay in the early 70s. Crippled the team for a long, long time.
sniff
Hey, despite Brett's retirement, we still have the best quarterback in the division!
by KT on Mar 4, 2008 12:59 PM CST up reply actions
Kemp, you mentioned nbadraft.net
Someone here compared him to Mad Dog, but it took Madsen two full seasons to match one season's worth of Hansbrough's point and rebound totals (well, almost).
It's flawed like that.
Don't know if this one's any better, but it has more content. Has your boy going at 18.
nbadraft
they actually have Budinger in the 2009 draft
by danger mouse on Mar 4, 2008 2:24 PM CST up reply actions
Update:
http://www.azstarnet.com/sn/hourlyupdate/233328.php
There's a lot of hype about the guys that performed well in the tournament, and deservedly so, but keep in mind that Budinger was rated pretty highly before this college season, when it wasn't known whether he was staying or leaving for this draft.
Also of note, Roy Hibbert, who was projected as a top 10 pick last year, has fallen all the way to the end of the first round after staying for his senior season. nbadraft.net has him going #25 to the Rockets.
Hibbert's only one more in the trend that includes Joakim Noah and other draft notables from the past. So maybe Budinger should just take what he can get now.
Man...
by Kemp @ Blog a Bull on Mar 4, 2008 3:21 PM CST up reply actions
What? Never before have I been accused
Nicholas Batum
If...
PG: Hinrich/Hughes
SG: Mayo/Thabo
SF: Deng/Noc
PF: Thomas/Gooden
C: Lopez/Gray
To me that would be ideal.
by Kemp @ Blog a Bull on Mar 4, 2008 3:36 PM CST reply actions
ESPN Lottery Mock Draft
Our current (record-following) spot is 9th. With that pick, Chad Ford has us taking Blake Griffin:
Blake is our standard pick for those times we end up with the 10th pick as well, with an occasional dose of Marreese Speights:
With those 1.4% chances we get the #1 pick, he has us (and 99.9% of all the scenarios) taking Beasley.
At the #2 or #3 pick, Chad says we take Derrick Rose or DeAndre Jordan:
Thoughts on Blake?
We have enough "raw"
by Ozzie Montana on Mar 6, 2008 12:45 PM CST up reply actions
I would like a Guard
Heard a new name tonight
Here's from their pregame lay-up drill:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oeLyIMmtRus&feature=related
or here, dunking from the free throw line:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2PKY3ashUMI&feature=related
If the Bulls do actually get into the play-offs and have to kiss the lottery good-bye, we might be looking at a guy like this in the draft.
AAC Tourny
Budinger would be decent as a Bull...
Than again, maybe Buddinger would have to leave if for no other reason than his draft position would no doubt suffer being the third option on AU.
Too many variables at this point.
by Khalid El-Amin on Mar 14, 2008 1:31 PM CDT up reply actions
Kevin Love
http://youtube.com/watch?v=7_EZpTcNMOg <-- the hook shot at the :47 mark is beauteous.
Yeah, that guys a stud.
not sure he's got nba quickness
by California Al on Mar 14, 2008 2:44 AM CDT up reply actions
Wes Unseld
You know your outlet passes, paisan
by California Al on Mar 17, 2008 1:52 AM CDT up reply actions
Collison
Howland is exactly
by California Al on Mar 19, 2008 9:17 AM CDT up reply actions
Kevin Love: Also,
by California Al on Mar 19, 2008 9:24 AM CDT up reply actions
Ha. I like where you're going here
For example, you mention an "innate sense of the physics and geometry of the game." This might be analogous to the "spatial" part of a S.B. IQ test. For those unfamiliar with it, you have to compare shapes by rotating them and turning them inside out in your imagination to see what matches up with what.
A top notch rebounder might be said to measure high in this area--a Dennis Rodman type, or maybe a Marcus Camby would earn points here--someone who can track the ball on its way to the hoop in his mind's eye, determine rebound distance and angle, and beat other players to the spot.
i was gonna say the same thing
Damn-the-man Rodman
And there was something about how hard he worked during games that made his off-the-court, alternative nuttiness palatable, even endearing.
lol even though he's crazy
heh i share a birthday with him! he's much older than i am, of course.
You also probably
you might be onto something there
BTW, you take a lot of crap (psychobabble) sometimes for trying to look into the causes behind the effects, but I usually find your posts food for thought.
by California Al on Mar 21, 2008 12:05 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm all for it--
It could be Love, or it could be Jordan (if available) or even some of the other bigs on the board, depending on how patient the Bulls want to be.
There seems to be a feeling out there that the Bulls need a pass-first PG, and though I'm not disagreeing, the other thing I could see happening is the Bulls drafting a 3 with the thought that Deng is expendible. That way, if Deng is healthy and comes through with a huge season, they can trade the newly drafted 3.
That Alexander from West Virginia is impressive
I'm looking forward to following him through
This team is a piece of work, get rid of Gordon
gallinari
I like the idea of drafting either of them a lot more than deandre whatever his name is. They would be less of a project having played in top leagues already and against international competition as opposed to some raw 7 footer with freakish athleticism. That said, they should trade the pick. I see a sign and trade with Deng as a better deal cause he is more highly regarded (we would supposedly get something veyr good in return like a starting caliber center) and we already have depth at sf (Thabo, hughes, Nocioni).
by Sambossanova on Mar 16, 2008 12:37 PM CDT up reply actions
As long as one is willing to get laughed at
So, Gallinari.... It used to be that we had to rely on faith alone when Euro names got dropped into prospect conversations. Now, we can see for ourselves.
Here's something very interesting about Gallinari--he's the second leading Euro player in free throw attempts and makes. I gotta say I like that a lot out of a small forward.
If you look at him on youtube you can see he drives to the basket A LOT...gets fouled...still makes the shot, and then gets to the line.
In a fairly recent game he got to the line 17 times, or about a season's worth for Deng.
My pick would be
Dj Augustin?
Sam's draft prospects
I'm not in draft mode yet (and am not a college bball fan) but it's funny to see how far Hibbert has fallen. Early in the draft season last year, I was hoping the Bulls would grab him.
AW MAN
DAMN
What were we supposed to be, and what have we fallen to? I almost teared up when i read your "words from the future", it was well written, too bad the future it came from doesnt exist on this plane. Props for the story, and causing these droplets of salt water from streaming down my cheeks.
by piccolomair on Mar 18, 2008 11:53 AM CDT up reply actions
Thanks
Keep believing, man.
Hibbert, no way he's regressed, and is too skinny
Whoa, hold on...
I mean, the Suns have traded their pick away a few times, but they're considered a contender and want to win right now rather than put effort (and salary) into development of a rookie. The Bobcats and Rockets traded high draft picks away, but got a star (Jason Richardson) and an x-factor/glue-guy/wiley veteran-type to put the team over the top (Shane Battier).
I'm with you.
I like the idea of trading high in the draft
Thus it is better to get a proven player like elton brand, who at very least can help compliment noah, and giving away gooden would allow thomas to at least get some more minutes. Our guards are flawed, true, but if we establish a good frontline, then maybe the short comings of a lack of a tall shooter, or pure pg will also be erased. A new coach i think is what is the most important piece right now.
by piccolomair on Mar 18, 2008 11:57 AM CDT up reply actions
The mid-lottery is the phantom zone
Sam mentions Joe Alexander, JaVale McGee, Gallinari and DJ Augunstin--not quite household names that might take a couple years under the radar to develop. That might be the best we can hope for out of the draft.
I think it's more about strength of draft
by RogersPark Kris on Mar 17, 2008 12:46 PM CDT up reply actions
Of course, no more high schoolers,
Bill Walker
jerryd bayless
by hughes sucks on Mar 21, 2008 4:52 PM CDT reply actions
Bayless
Shan Foster
A 6'6" shooting guard, he shot 52.6 FG% and 47.3 3PT% on 281 threes for a ridiculous 68.5 TS%. This seems like Michael Redd Jr., and if we're thinking about moving Gordon and Hughes, I'd like to see us go with a Thabo/Foster backcourt for the future.
Anybody know why he isn't projected higher?
I really like
by Kemp @ Blog a Bull on Mar 23, 2008 3:12 AM CDT reply actions
MOVED DIARY
I've been surfing DraftExpress and NBADraft.net and came across JaVale McGee on NBADraft.net.
Weaknesses: Still must gain maturity. He gets frustrated far too easily and loses his composure quickly when calls go against him, or when he's struggling ... Still growing into his body and game, learning what he's capable of and steadily becoming a factor night in and night out ... Needs to develop some go to moves. A reliable jump hook would make him an absolute force ... Must improve from the free throw line (50% wont cut it). He has solid shooting touch and should be able to raise his FT shooting to at least 70-75 percent over time if he develops a consistent routine and works at it ... Should be wary of leaving school early. It's likely he would be a first rounder this year, but a third year in college would really help him in the long run as he would be much better prepared for the NBA and not run the risk of losing confidence and falling short of his full potential ...
Take a look at the YouTube clip. He seems to have significant offensive skills for a big man. Pair him with Noah and we really may have something special.
I'll keep looking.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 23, 2008 8:26 PM CDT reply actions
Yeahhh
The play where he blocks a jumpshot, grabs the loose ball, and gets the breakaway dunk is impressive. I haven't seen many 7-footers that can move like that.
He's projected to go #15 now, and from what little I know about him I'd still take him over Hibbert, Hansbrough, and DJ White. He seems like a project though, almost Tyrus Thomas-like in his rawness, and doesn't look to have much of a post game. I wouldn't expect an instant impact.
These highlight reels
wasn't me
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 24, 2008 12:21 AM CDT up reply actions
Hmm
Just from looks, he seems to be a good player, but like it was said, those highlight reels, show only highlights, and thus are biased.
I do like that he is a tall guy who has a nice shot, but no post moves???? The bulls arent really great at developing bigs, so i dont see alot of use for this guy. He could be great, but with chicago he probably wont be.
by piccolomair on Mar 23, 2008 11:00 PM CDT up reply actions
Blake Griffin is the only player worth taking at
A couple guys here (YaoPau? and CalAl?)
Best Player: Kevin Love, UCLA. Love did everything, from scoring to rebounding to blocking shots, and he did it with a maturity beyond his years. Plus, he helped the helpless: rescuing a ball behind the backboard by firing another ball at it, after a referee tried it multiple times and failed. On Wednesday, Love fired a ball 95 feet (standing out of bounds on the baseline) to the other basket ... and drained it ... with a chest pass. It is among the most incredible things I have ever seen on a basketball court. There can't be more than a handful of players on the planet who can do that. Incredible.
Good to hear I'm not crazy
At 6'10", with that post game, that passing ability, that shooting range, that clutch play, that Noah-like will to win, and at just 19 years old, I can't imagine why he's only projected to go 10th behind guys like Westbrook, Mayo, Griffin and Bayless who haven't proved a thing.
Answered questions?
by California Al on Mar 27, 2008 1:46 AM CDT up reply actions
Get the lube ready
Another thing I like about Love
NBADraft.net has him available to the Bulls at #9. They actually have the Bulls taking Westbrook. I'm a little worried that Westbrook is too much like too many guys we already have. Off that team, Collison looks like the better ball handler, but I've not even seen them play a whole game this year.
Kevin Love is fat
I thought I heard
I don't know if you're suggesting Dorsey or just making the solid/puffy comparison...but this is part of what NBADraft.com has to say about Dorsey:
NBA Comparison: Ben Wallace
Weaknesses: Lacks much of an offensive game ... His post skills and shooting touch remain very limited ... Doesn't have a consistent shot and scores mostly on garbage baskets ... He's older than the average senior by 2+ years ... An absolutely abysmal free throw shooter at 46% which is actually an improvement from his first two seasons. Needs to further raise this to not be an end of game liability ... Also needs to cut down on turnovers (1.7) ... Probably best suited to play center and lacks ideal center height ...
http://www.nbadraft.net/admincp/profiles/joeydorsey.html
They do say he's strong and works hard, but if the Bulls are going to go front court in the draft, considering we already have Noah and Tyrus, I'd much rather have them go for someone for whom scoring is a strength. Maybe that's Love.
Thanks for posting that
by California Al on Mar 27, 2008 1:57 AM CDT up reply actions
After a few youtube clips
by piccolomair on Mar 25, 2008 12:51 PM CDT up reply actions
Love is the next Bill Laimbeer
by Ozzie Montana on Mar 25, 2008 4:42 PM CDT up reply actions
I'll never be sold on Love.
Best case scenario:
Worst case:
He's the next Stacey King.
by RogersPark Kris on Mar 26, 2008 12:33 AM CDT up reply actions
The best comparison so far
by California Al on Mar 27, 2008 1:55 AM CDT up reply actions
I never saw Unseld play
Both players are the same size, and have similar games - mostly post, but balanced by a reliable jumpshot, and overcome their lack of athleticism with extra determination.
You missed a good one then
Another small thing worries me. Later in the game, he runs up and down the court a little stiff legged; reminds me of myself when my chronic back is tightening. He had to leave a Pac 10 tourney game because of spasms 2 weeks ago. It might be that he doesn't have the core strength, and even Howland has criticized his conditioning. If that points to what's ahead, you have to wonder what the NBA grind would do to him.
Having said all that, I think he'd be an excellent complement to Noah. I think Deng's gone, Thomas should be as well, and Gooden may be the only marketable commodity we have. If Thabo becomes the Pippen-type 3 I see in him, that would be a very competitive frontcourt. If we can get a true point or shooting guard who wants to play here, I think Kirk is serviceable, and at least you'd have a starting five with winning as the primary agenda.
by California Al on Mar 27, 2008 1:18 PM CDT up reply actions
Thabo-Love-Noah
NBA basketball, of course. I forget we're in the draft thread.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 27, 2008 4:02 PM CDT up reply actions
Maybe, but
by California Al on Mar 28, 2008 3:50 AM CDT up reply actions
I'll remind you
And what East center besides Dwight Howard do you see being better than Noah three years down the road? Chandler? Dalembert? A Noah/Love/Deng frontline would be very competitive in a couple of years, assuming that they had a real backcourt. I think you've seriously missed the boat on this one.
all John Wooden knows about passing nowadays
look up who gets 18/10 in the NBA, ugly or not.
And Barkley was a pretty remarkable athlete.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 31, 2008 1:29 PM CDT up reply actions
Ba-zing?
Its one thing to offer an uninformed opinion about a particular college player's future, we are all entitled to express out views regardless of their validity. (I say uninformed because its obvious to me, based on your comments, that you have not watched Kevin Love play very much.) Its another to express such contemptuous disrespect for one of the greatest basketball minds and teachers of all time. There's a reason why most of his former players, many great men in their own right, still seek his counsel. There is a reason why he is beloved and respected by generations. That you do not consider his observations to be of value is only evidence of your profound ignorance and your skewed perspective of your proper place within the meaning of things. If you or John Wooden were to disappear off the planet tomorrow, who would be missed more?
Don't confuse cleverness for actual knowledge, my friend, the path to irrelevance is strewn with the bruised egos and broken dreams of prideful, clever boys who spoke, one time too many, before thinking.
And while I suppose John Wooden does not need me, nor anyone for that matter, to defend his essential goodness and his lifetime of giving and achievement, I accepted the task gladly. For I owe him far more than I could ever hope to repay. Ba-zing? I think not.
you see, the joke is
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 1, 2008 10:01 AM CDT up reply actions
Very nicely said
by California Al on Apr 2, 2008 2:52 PM CDT up reply actions
you have a point
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 2, 2008 3:05 PM CDT up reply actions
Mark the date
by California Al on Apr 3, 2008 12:14 AM CDT up reply actions
In case I wasn't clear
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 3, 2008 9:29 AM CDT up reply actions
Just wondering,
This is the statement made by Digger Phelps last night. Note that I don't agree or disagree with Phelps, just wondering what others think of his (over?)statement.
The Bulls 2008 draft pick....
Q: What do Kirk Hinrich, Ben Gordon, Luol Deng, Tyrus Thomas, and Joakim Noah ALL have in common?
A: They were all the Most Oustanding Player of their Regions in the NCAA Tournament.
Kirk, Ben, Luol, and Tyrus were MOPs their final year in college, and Noah was the MOP of his region during Florida's first title run.
After this weekend we'll have four MOPs named from the Final Four teams and if history is any indication, the Bulls' #1, 2, 3, or 9 draft pick will be one of these four players.
by BullsFanInSeattle on Mar 26, 2008 2:12 PM CDT reply actions
Hey, look! Stephen Curry
(...And yes, I am kidding.)
Bulls just won in ESPN lottery game
Kevin Love is going to surprise people
Love is not a project
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 26, 2008 10:28 PM CDT up reply actions
If the bulls take love
Love Will Never Surrender
Love will overcome all odds
Love will be in the Bulls locker room
Love is among kids
Love will soon be among adults
Love will bring happiness to Bulls fans
Love will bring us back to glory
Blah blah blah
agreed
I don't get the DeAndre Jordan fans...
7.9ppg on a crappy team, shooting 43% from the free throw line, and people are referring to him as the post presence we've all been waiting for.
100% right
by California Al on Mar 27, 2008 2:10 AM CDT up reply actions
Love can block shots
Guys who i would want to draft
D. Rose pg-he is the best pg coming out this year, and no one seems to question it. Im a hinrich fan, but the possibilities of an allstar pg on a team can be endless.
O.J. Mayo pg/sg-He is tall, can play some point, and is a real good slasher. Sure we have alot of guards but we could trade bg and someone else and get this guy. He should be offensively better then thabo, and defensively better then bg (just cuz hes tall)
Danilo Gallinari sf-He is an international player, and when i saw his youtube vids he reminded me of hedo turkoglu, the funny thing is according to draftexpress, hedo is his WORST case scenerio. He is 6'10, and can move like a guard (Sort of like Yi), he is said to be able to play either backcourt positions, has great fundamentals, and excellent basketball iq. Paxson would love him, and more importantly he would make a solid sf just in case luol went bye bye, or if we retained luol, he would be a perfect backup.
Deandre Jordan C-The bulls need another Center, too many times has Aaron Gray not been used due to lack of athleticism that keeps him from keeping up with players on the court, Jordan can do what Gray could not. If he ends up being a 7 foot version of Tyrus Thomas, I would be happy with him
Eric Gordon-If we end up letting ben gordon go, this guy is perfect for his job, the names are too similar, the comparison has him being the RICH mans ben gordon. Not really an upgrade, but may end up being cheaper, plus the mistakes made with ben gordon can be fixed with him, ala, keep at sixth man and thus he will never get upset at losing a starting job or demand more money then he is worth.
Well those are my five picks, by the way, i dont like Beasley, he seems like a zach randolf at the sf position. Lots of skills, with alot more baggage.
The thing I most like
I think it will be very interesting if he decidesto come to the US and do the typycal couple players at a time tour of the lottery-bound teams. I want to see how he stacks up against some of the "known" US commodities.
The Bulls desperately need someone who goes to and can get to the basket.
Admittedly, I do feel a little silly gushing over a total unknown, but that speaks 1) to the dearth of outstanding mid-court prospects in this year's draft, and 2) to my dissatisfaction with Deng. The Bulls need a mid-court player who can draw a double team.
The Bulls don't need OJ Mayo or E Gordon
If Kevin Love is available at the Bulls pick, which I think he ironically will be, they have to take him. Not only is he a great player from a great program
(Pax likes that), he might be the most sure thing in the draft. He will produce right away. Just like Elton Brand, he can give you 18 and 10 every night. The fact that he is white and doesn't have a really cut physique is gonna let him drop to us IMO. That would be a huge pickup.
OT but I also love Joe Alexander's game. He needs to take over more and settle for jumpshots less, but his skill set is awesome. Also I heard he has only been playing ball for a few years, which could mean his ceiling is higher than we think, and his athleticism is just awesome.
Sorry
Considering needs, i put in D. Jordan just because i think we need someone who can give Noah a break and i really dont want to see anymore of gooden at the 5. I put alot of guards in my top 5 because it seems we have a mashup at the guard spot, and we will be losing a few guards.
I dont like Hughes and B.G. might be gone due to contract reasons. Thabo is serviceable and i think he can get strong enough to play the 3. I would like to have a starting guard who has some height and has a special ability in either scoring (so he can be a legit 2 guard) or running the point (so we can have a legit "pure" all star caliber pg). I think the bulls still have an impressive roster, however the talents dont mesh or compliment each other the way they should. So i tried to choose players who could help out some of the talents on this team. D jordan to help noah and make up for the loss of tyrus, Oj mayo or E. Gordon to make up the loss of Gordon and compliment kirk hinrichs lack of pureness, D. Rose can basically help out the entire team offensively, and the international lebron james so that if we lose deng there would be someone who is serviceable enough that should have a high trade value for quite some time.
Like i said i like k love, however i really wouldnt want to draft him if it meant something like gooden would have to play center while k love played pf, or if they put k love at the sf and he didnt play right so they bench him and kill his development. The bulls tend to treat thier rookies like soldiers in the army, "THIS IS HARD WORK THE SHIT U DID IN COLLEGE WONT CUT IT HERE!!!" and if they so choose, they wont let a player play comfortably where he wants to, and killing development. I dont want that to happen to k love or anyone we draft.
Thats a lengthy reason why i put k love at number 6, im sold on all he can do, but i had my logic behind it all.
by piccolomair on Mar 28, 2008 12:51 AM CDT up reply actions
Gordon and Mayo
So in other words
by piccolomair on Mar 28, 2008 10:36 AM CDT up reply actions
I believe I said
Of the 2 though
Wasnt he like 16 in 8th grade
Like i said i dont watch the NCAA so i havent seen how Oj has been doing, draftexpress did report at some point that the guy wasnt playing at the high level expected of him, but i think he picked up in the tournament, cuz his projection dropped to like 11 at some point, and this week its crawled back to 5. That must mean something you would think...but you guys are more of experts then me so if so many people dont like him, there must also be a reason for that i would think.
by piccolomair on Mar 28, 2008 10:33 AM CDT up reply actions
Mayo is 20? I had no idea...
Eric Gordon
Just about his only upgrade over Ben is that he's listed as 6'4, and even that we can't bank on. (Eric is listed at 6'4, 215, while Ben is listed at 6'3, 200).
Oh, and also, he jerked the state of Illinois around with his recruiting shenanigans. I'm not even a U. of I. alum, but I just think the way he acted was a turnoff.
Hope he becomes a career backup, and that he never even gets 6th man of the year.
The big upgrade
David Thorpe
Then he went on about Ben's strengths (so the 'falling down' crowd may want to avoid it), while acknowledging with even with those strengths it's simply difficult to be an undersized shot-maker in the NBA.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 28, 2008 1:52 PM CDT up reply actions
I hate the Love love. Bleck.
yeah, yeah, yeah...
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 28, 2008 2:23 PM CDT up reply actions
I know, I know....
you never have to worry about being wrong
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 28, 2008 3:20 PM CDT up reply actions
What do you guys think about Tywon Lawson?
Kevin Love is going to dominate tormorrow night
45 second scouting report
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 29, 2008 7:04 PM CDT up reply actions
To his defense
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wykfvQFtCkc&feature=related
Skiles would hate him.
Oh yeah, getting up court isn't just about fast breaks. It's about setting up the offense, too. When you're waiting for the slowest guy on the court to get down there and set up, it slows the game, especially w/ a 24-second clock.
I saw it a few times last night: when the defense stopped the guards, they pull back, two seconds later, here comes Love lumbering down into position. Sometimes the play was already started!!!
Kevin Love has old-man skills. He's like Arvydas Sibonis or Brad Miller but three inches shorter, and dare I say, LESS athletic? If he were 7-ft, I'd be fine with him, but he's not. Carlos Boozer was short and had average athletic ability. Kevin Love is still short but with below average athletic ability. I'm glad he's developing a 3-pointer because that's what will give him a fighting chance.
You read my mind
Still, such a risky pick. If the Bulls gambled on him and neither he nor Tyrus pan out, our future would be wrapped up in "you gotta get real bad before you get real good" land.
by California Al on Mar 30, 2008 10:05 PM CDT up reply actions
A Big Guard
I think we need a big guard who can defend and pass. Mayo seems like a good pick here. If we can trade up for him, we have a rotation that looks like
Guards
- Kirk & Mayo
- Gordon, Thabo
- Deng & Gooden
- Noc, Tyrus
- Noah
- Gray
This season's already a flop. We deserve some big market activity that would ideally lead to more wins and an extended playoff run, not an ageing 6-7 centre for 15 million a season.
This looks like a good idea. But knowing Pax, he's gonna f*** it up again.
by blackmage71 on Mar 29, 2008 2:33 PM CDT reply actions
Need: A guard to make TT and Noah even better
by goldengod on Mar 30, 2008 7:05 PM CDT reply actions
Talent
by goldengod on Mar 30, 2008 7:06 PM CDT up reply actions
despite my 'slow' comment earlier
Hansbrough is a garbage player though. The next Mark Madsen. He's just not big enough to be a post player, despite the heaves that find their way into the basket in the NCAAs. If you're going to be an undersized 4 in the league (and some say Tyurs is undersized, sheesh) you have to be a Milsap, Landry, Smith, Evans...just a superlative rebounder who gets junk points. Hansbrough isn't big or strong enough, and this may surprise Jay Bilas but NBA players are competitors as well.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 31, 2008 9:37 AM CDT up reply actions
ok I'll put it in the prediction file
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 31, 2008 10:33 AM CDT up reply actions
You watched a college game?
If you're looking at 2nd rounders, check out Mbah A Mute as a poor man's Deng, if moving Lu out is any part of the offseason plan.
by California Al on Mar 31, 2008 12:09 PM CDT up reply actions
yeah, that's my problem with the college game
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 31, 2008 1:26 PM CDT up reply actions
anti-collite
Combine that with the fact that on way too many occasions you end up spending your hard earned free time and cash watching very talented and highly compensated athletes who really don't give a crap about winning the game, or at best, will try their best for about 8 minutes (usually enough to take apart our beloved this year).
The NCAA tourney is Augusta National to me, the mecca of what the game should be about. If the NBA could somehow work it out to go back to leaving the kids in school for 4 years, both games would be so much more better off.
by California Al on Mar 31, 2008 6:15 PM CDT up reply actions
perhaps way back when
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 31, 2008 6:53 PM CDT up reply actions
poor mans deng
by Sambossanova on Mar 31, 2008 3:08 PM CDT up reply actions
I agree
Personally, I'll put this one in the box of generally offensive comparisions. Like Gerald Green and Tyrus Thomas, or Kevin Love and Charles Barkley.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 31, 2008 3:28 PM CDT up reply actions
Shame on you, Matt
Hate to lecture, but wasn't it the accusers, thereby indicting themselves for making that connection?
by California Al on Mar 31, 2008 3:55 PM CDT up reply actions
I wasn't accusing you
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 31, 2008 6:58 PM CDT up reply actions
sorry
by California Al on Mar 31, 2008 8:42 PM CDT up reply actions
Huh?
by California Al on Mar 31, 2008 3:46 PM CDT up reply actions
Dunno if that was referring to me
No, Sports2
Just came across a very interesting conversation about black vs white bb by Daryl Dawkins. I only knew him as the Chocolate Thunder clown on that great Sixers team (ahh, memory lane, Dawkins squaring off with Mo Lucas), and was very impressed. Coach candidate? Scroll 2/3 down to the Dawkins comments:
by California Al on Mar 31, 2008 5:26 PM CDT up reply actions
Thanks!
I think there's some truth to what Chocolate Thunder is saying, but I actually draw the opposite conclusion.
(For those who don't want to scroll through the APBR post, the original question asked why there appeared to be obvious racial differences in NBA careers. In particular, if you look at the top 100 NBA careers in terms of various stats, one sees
- whites over-represented in most categories
- whites wildly ahead in things like 3 point shooting
- whites very under-represented in the usage rate statistic.)
To do that, I'd start at the opposite point from Dawkins. The "white" game is too individualistic and the "black" game is too socialized.
Consider it in terms of trying to develop a set of skills. I would guess that if conditions for an athletic white kid and an athletic black kid are different, they're largely different like this.
- Your stereotypical "black kid" lives in a city and is less likely to have his own basketball hoop. To develop his basketball skills, this requires him to play with other guys; whomever is at the court. This is going to teach the better players to use the ball more, and it's going to lead them to focus on things that win them games. If you're playing with other kids and you do nothing but stand around and wait for someone to pass you the ball so you can hoist up a three pointer, you're never gonna touch the ball. So the skills that get reinforced and practiced in that environment are things like controlling the ball and shooting.
- Your "stereotypical white kid" might live in the suburbs or country, and might have his own basketball hoop. Even if he doesn't, there are less other kids around, so he's going to spend more time developing his skills alone. Bouncing a ball against his garage door to simulate passes, practicing his jumper, collecting the misses etc. On the other hand, there's not that same level of competition for "ball time" you find in a game setting.
3. The fact that whites are somewhat over-proportionally represented amongst the best is likely due to a broader manifestation of the same principle of practice and specialization. When our stereotypical black kid turns out to be a good athlete, he might focus on basketball or football and develop one of those skills because they're the most obvious payoffs for him. When our stereotypical white kid is a good athlete, my guess is there are still quite a bit more things he might specialize in. Tennis, golf, baseball, hockey and perhaps non-athletic pursuits as well, all compete for time.
This leads to over-representation among the statistical leaders at the NBA level because, in order to advance actually advance to that level, the average white player must have dispayed a higher aptitude for it in the first place to give up his other opportunities and specialize in basketball in the first place. Only the most skilled and dedicated white players go on to the highest levels of basketball, and thus, they tend to be among the best.
This is true of black kids too, of course, but the number of other things that good black athletes end up specializing in and dedicating their time to ends up being smaller, so a higher proportion of the "potential basketball players" become "actual basketball players".
I spose I could be completely wrong, and I'd like to find some good tests of my theory here, but I do think it's a logically sound explanation at least.
I think I've said this before
(yes I didn't help by 'endorsing' sambassanova's post, but I was merely saying that cases of Hinrich=Stockton syndrome are annoying)
Sorry if that bums out some scholars here, or pseudo-intellectuals like alec.
You can go to SportsTwo's site, for instance.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 1, 2008 2:57 PM CDT up reply actions
Why would that bum me out?
My only race-mentioning comments on this site have been requests not to include race as part of the question--much as you just did above.
I may annoy you on many fronts, but this, in truth, should not be one of them. I won't ask for a retraction because I wouldn't expect one to be forthcoming, but a little intellectual honesty would be appreciated.
I didn't take that implication from his post
hmm..I guess it could've read that way
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 1, 2008 3:51 PM CDT up reply actions
Sincerest apologies
by California Al on Apr 1, 2008 8:35 PM CDT up reply actions
Hate was strong word
by Sambossanova on Mar 31, 2008 6:06 PM CDT up reply actions
sheesh
That thought comes very quickly to mind if you're a rabid Bulls and Bruins fan and hear rumors that Luol is royally pissed and is leaving the Bulls one way or the other. There are worse kids that you could look at in the second round if those rumors have any merit. I was just sayin
Let it go, the comparison didn't have a thing to do with race.
by California Al on Mar 31, 2008 6:47 PM CDT up reply actions
Well, Tyger, Saturday evening
Although, in terms of draft-relatedness, I'd say I'm equally looking for ward to Rose/ Collisan and Rose/Westbrook. I think Westbrook, Collisan and Love will all be on the board when the Bulls pick...and, of course, the Bulls will have a mathematical shot at Rose.
Agreed.
I really don't follow college basketball
In fact, I would have liked to have seen a little bit more of Stanford. I think I heard this morning that both Lopez' have declared for the draft. In terms of Bulls' needs, I'd say Brook Lopez fits the bill better than Kevin Love.
Love was hampered
I agree with a common sentiment here that, unless they are really going to start over, there are no instant fixes available in the draft unless we get a lucky ping pong ball. If we can get a 2nd or 3rd year player like Conley or Lowry, it would open up more options this offeseason.
by California Al on Apr 1, 2008 8:50 PM CDT up reply actions
Love never looks dominant
I'm really intrigued by Westbrook
Interesting
by California Al on Apr 1, 2008 8:41 PM CDT up reply actions
What's you're big board for the bulls at #8 or #9
Thoughts? I think we should stay away from the tweener guards, Gordon, Bayless. Westbrook is a legit point/2guard. Love is better than people think and stronger than an ox. Griffin is huge, but has had knee troubles. Jordan is huge but possibly too much of a project.
how do you think
I 'd probably say
I know a lot of people here feel otherwise, but I think PG is the Bulls' biggest need position...and I think Augustin looks like a really good PG.
I agree with you about combo guards. If that's what we want, there's no reason to try to replace Kirk. He's a solid combo guard...but he doesn't bring anything special to the point.
Post scoring is the team's second greatest need, and again, contrary to the opinions of many of BaB's more astute basketball observers, I think Love will be a good post scorer in the pros.
Feeling otherwise
I like Love and Thabeet (how is he not projected higher?), and I liked what I saw from that McGee video posted earlier on this thread. I'd take Eric Gordon over both if he somehow slipped.
The way Gordon played the last quarter
I'm also a big fan of getting to the line. My impression is Augustin gets to the line pretty well. In a third of his games he shot at least 8 free throws.
What I like most about Agustin is that he seems able to get anywhere he wants with ease, and he makes on-target passes even in traffic. That, and he's quick. Real quick.
You're starting to convince me on Augustin...
With that said, I don't think Augustin's a difference maker like Rose, Beasley, and Gordon could be. I'm with Matt in that I'd rather go for broke this draft, and while Augustin could be very good, he's just not at that level physically.
I'm not high on Gordon
Don't get me wrong, it's not like I think Mobley sucks as a player. Better to get a guy who's a solid player than have a complete bust on our hands.
On the other hand, Mobley is pretty run of the mill when it comes to NBA SGs. If we're swinging for the fences on a pick, I'd swing for more than that.
Especially when there's a fair chance he just isn't big, fast or skilled enough to be a prime time NBA player. I see a lot of bust potential in him.
----------------
How do we feel about Chris Douglas-Roberts? He sort of reminds me of Deng with hops and better man defense but less of a mid range shot and the same questionable athleticism.
I used to think Gordon was like Mobley...
The FTA separate Gordon from the other SGs prospects, which makes me think he's somewhere between Kevin Martin and Dwyane Wade instead of just another jumpshooter.
I wish I'd seen Gordon
Post-Sampson, Indiana went into a Boylan-Bulls style funk. Every player seemed to lose his way and the team just sucked.
One of the lessons learned from these Bulls has been that when the whole team is in disarray, it's next to impossible for any individual player to stand out well.
Is it fair to expect an adaquate evaluation of Gordon when considering only half a season of college ball? I don't know.
I'm with you
That's similar to my scouting. I was hoping to see more of him in the tournament, but a brief showing could be better for us. Now Eric Gordon may fall to us.
I think Gordon would enter the NBA with a stronger upper body and better body control than Dwayne Wade. Gordon already has NBA range which Martin has now, Wade still doesn't have, and Martin developed his range rather quickly.
Of all the guards in this years draft I think Eric Gordon can do what we need done right away. We need a player that can score from anywhere through multiple offensive weapons of shooting, dribble penetration, and ball control to allow us to dictate tempo. Among the other guards, I think you'd be looking at a Mike Conley scenario where it's at least one season before he really does anything for you.
I don't think this is the right way to look at it
Especially when it's pretty likely at least one of Hughes or Ben Gordon is here next season. And Thabo. And Kirk.
That doesn't mean I'm totally anti Eric Gordon, I just think if we pick him we have to do it because he's the best guy in the long run for us.
Eric Gordon would be a long run candidate
I wouldn't be anywhere close to this position if Ben Gordon was about to start his new contract entering next season. His decline of the extension and a season where the Bulls defense collapsed to greatly expose Gordon's negatives, came together to create the perfect storm for this off season.
Since a new coach can be signed first I am inclined to do that first. Then comes the draft. We won't know what we can do or will do with Deng and Gordon until July 1, so we have to draft the best player available that we want to get rookie burn similar to what Thomas and Sefolosha earned.
really? better than Derrick Rose?
if you get #1 or #2 pick Rose or Beasley in that order.
If #3, try and get a king's ransom
if #8, 9, etc. trade the pick, or hope a high-risk guy like Gordon or Mayo slips.
I really think the Bulls aren't (and shouldn't be) intersted in developing another young player. And I realize 'another' is a pretty silly term, given this organization's track record.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 8, 2008 3:58 PM CDT up reply actions
I truly fear
I disagree.
If they can bring in someone 25 or younger for that pick w/ more certainty of production at a higher level (or cheaper cost) than Gordon (for instance), then go for it.
I think their best chance is to bring in another player to develop AND get put a HUGE emphasis on development, to at least make these players trade-able. I just don't see how trading the pick gets them someone better than anyone they already have. Unless I'm missing something.
my two cents
I would prefer they package the pick and maybe get rid of hughes with it. If they can get another later pick for this year or maybe next year and a good complementary piece (such as a big man that complements tyrus and noah. Since Bulls always are reluctant to go over the cap (inexplicable to me), maybe trying to manage the payroll for the future is a better strategy while solidifying a team that is at least more cohesive with parts that fit together better.
Hoping that Thomas somehow develops into shawn kemp, thabo into doug christie/ron harper, and deng into a much improved deng is a bit optimistic. Whomever they choose this year will be a crap shoot like it is any year and who knows how he will fit in with the rest of the team.
I'm sorry. That doesn't make sense to me.
They can't trade the pick for a big straight up, right? So they'd have to include someone. You say Hughes (but it could be anyone). So you'd have to package a lottery pick plus Hughes for a complementary big and late first round pick. Is that worth it?
Besides, that works in theory-land, but matching salaries makes it extremely difficult. You'd have to find someone who makes roughly as much as Hughes (or Hinrich or Nocioni), and is better enough than any of those guys to justify moving down in the draft.
I'm sure there are possibilities out there, and it's obviously worth looking for, but I'd like to see them than just random no-name scenarios.
I'd rather them working clearing space and using the pick in a sign-and-trade deal than for something straight up.
sure
I was thinking along the lines of trying to package nocioni, or hughes with the pick for rasho and their pick or gadzuric and that pick or even if we could somehow convince them pacers to part with troy murphy, maybe mark blount, or haywood/thomas. Point would be to get rid of a shitty contract and trade it for a player that would fit in playing 20 minutes a night with a marginally less shitty contract and possibly get a draft pick in return.
The players I mentioned are sort of random ones that came off the top of my head. Hopefully, bulls somehow win number 1 or 2 pick (kind like the blazers last year) and go on from there.
Okay...
That 10-20 range would also put them in the range of a number of long SGs that I am curious about: Rush, CDR, Budinger, Batum.
If they don't get a Top 3 pick or Mayo or Gordon don't fall to them at 8 or 9, I could see that being a strategy.
Trade the #3?
you already have Gordon(#3), Thomas(#2)
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 9, 2008 9:03 AM CDT up reply actions
Lopez looks like he can
big deal
"King's ransom" means they'll get a lot for the pick. Coupled with a 'serviceable' guy already on the roster, someone great.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 9, 2008 9:52 AM CDT up reply actions
I've already said there's
The tournament
If the Bulls are going to help themselves--more than incrementally--this off season, their going to have to be either lucky or extremely creative.
That would be the Chicago Servica-Bulls....
I think they need the best scorer available.
Of course, if they plan to keep Gordon and let Deng go, that opens up their possibilities.
I still say the best thing to do is win the Draft Lottery. Or at least finish in the Top 3.
If they stay in that spot
Bulls don't need any more ok players.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 2, 2008 9:22 AM CDT up reply actions
NEED PG
by Zac23 on Apr 4, 2008 4:36 AM CDT reply actions
don't make me dig up
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 4, 2008 9:30 AM CDT up reply actions
looks like
Bayless is going pro
I like Bayless. Lots of fire, potential pg in the Arenas/Billups mold.
by danger mouse on Apr 5, 2008 5:01 PM CDT reply actions
Look at his strengths
Blake Griffin
I like Griffin too
If we can get Griffin
by Freethefro on Apr 8, 2008 4:02 PM CDT up reply actions
I don't know
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 8, 2008 4:04 PM CDT up reply actions
Matt
Official(and only) NBA DRAFT thread2, and create a link back to this orginal diary for reference??
nah
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 8, 2008 4:59 PM CDT up reply actions
huh?
dude i know u called it a thread, but really its a frickin diary... and you clearly have very strong feelings about this particular diary...
but cereally why are u trying to censor us? Not allowing me to express how we need to get a new point guard in the draft (maybe Bayless?) because Hinrich is garbage in a new thread every day is an insult to my true basketball insight.
by Zac23 on Apr 8, 2008 7:44 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm with you, but.....
by Zac23 on Apr 8, 2008 7:34 PM CDT up reply actions
My Bulls Top 5
- Derrick Rose
- Michael Beasley
- OJ Mayo - He's going to be better than a lot of people think.
- Eric Gordon - ditto.
- Russell Westbrook
#9
- Rose
- Jerryd Bayless (if u havent seen him play u better axe somebody)
- Beasley (then trade deng for a pg...?)
- Chase Budinger
- DJ Augustine (Fast)
by Zac23 on Apr 9, 2008 9:30 AM CDT reply actions
It's still a lottery.
by Khalid El-Amin on Apr 10, 2008 1:59 AM CDT up reply actions
After the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd picks
Actually I meant that we could still end up...
If we end up ninth and three teams behind us jump into the lottery.
Hihgly unlikely, but still... It's a lottery.
by Khalid El-Amin on Apr 10, 2008 11:26 AM CDT up reply actions
Is Budinger any different than Hughes
I had much higher expectations from Budinger at Arizona. He hasn't really stood out there. The teams he's played on have had a lot of talent too and yet they still struggle in the Pac-10 and just barely get into the NCAA tournament.
by NBA Observer on Apr 9, 2008 10:40 AM CDT up reply actions
I have the same concerns
If these guys were sure-fire lottery picks, how come they couldn't carry their college team?
Maybe the Lute Olsen thing was such a shock that, as with Indiana, everything just fell apart when the head coach(es) left.
lucky 4 us
The argument for drafting players from successful college programs is not without merit, but should not be the determinative factor... too bad head to head matchups (actual competition) for top draft prospects is no longer a part of the draft process. Personally i hope they both stay in college for a few years before the Bulls draft both.
by Zac23 on Apr 9, 2008 11:55 AM CDT up reply actions
Bayless has no ball handling skills...
Don't get me wrong, I love the guy, but Nick Wise ran the point at AZ, and when he went down you saw what happened.
Bayless is better suited at the 2.
by Khalid El-Amin on Apr 10, 2008 1:58 AM CDT up reply actions
Because it's a team game???
Budinger, for one, has his definite flaws. His inability to play defense probably has more to do with contributing to team losses than some magic ability to "carry" a team. There's no "killer instinct" that Budinger could have that would have added five more wins to his team.
Olsen
by Zac23 on Apr 9, 2008 12:25 PM CDT reply actions
Blake Griffin staying in school...
well, that's a bullet dodged
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 9, 2008 3:21 PM CDT up reply actions
Bummer...
well in that respect
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 9, 2008 4:16 PM CDT up reply actions
Jordan
get him as
He's going to be a huge project.
A project like Bynum
by NBA Observer on Apr 10, 2008 7:15 PM CDT up reply actions
Mayo made it official today that he's going pro
by RogersPark Kris on Apr 9, 2008 10:53 PM CDT reply actions
for him
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 9, 2008 11:02 PM CDT up reply actions
He might be taking a paycut in the NBA
Honestly.
by Kemp @ Blog a Bull on Apr 10, 2008 5:18 AM CDT reply actions
Huh? Joke?
If you are talking about Lebron or Chris Paul, and you are serious, than my friend, slowly back away from the computer and breathe.
by danger mouse on Apr 10, 2008 9:18 AM CDT up reply actions
This might be the best post
I'm putting this as my sig line. Thank you for your great thoughts, Kemp.
by NittanyBull on Apr 10, 2008 10:20 AM CDT up reply actions
I'm with you
by bullshooter on Apr 10, 2008 10:19 PM CDT up reply actions
I assume kemp was joking
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 10, 2008 10:24 PM CDT up reply actions
I am joking.
by Kemp @ Blog a Bull on Apr 11, 2008 1:37 AM CDT up reply actions
And now a sexist comment.
you mean the 8th most ping-pong balls?
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 10, 2008 10:24 AM CDT up reply actions
blazers
by Sambossanova on Apr 10, 2008 3:28 PM CDT up reply actions
Westbrook is a sleeper
Rondo Aint that good
by piccolomair on Apr 10, 2008 12:07 PM CDT up reply actions
this is the worst post i've ever seen
That Rondo comparison
by Freethefro on Apr 10, 2008 1:04 PM CDT up reply actions
Most typos in a single post award: me
inclincing = inclination
shone = shown
etc.
by Freethefro on Apr 10, 2008 1:06 PM CDT up reply actions
Rondo's going to be first team all nba defense
by armstrong2389 on Apr 10, 2008 8:38 PM CDT up reply actions
Westbrook is a sleeper?
Chris Duhon. Now there's a sleeper.
it's actually
when it gets to 400
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 10, 2008 2:27 PM CDT up reply actions
tease
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 10, 2008 4:16 PM CDT up reply actions
If the Bulls stay where they are at the 8-9
by messwiththebull on Apr 10, 2008 4:56 PM CDT reply actions
I've been wanting to like Augustin, too
Certainly there is precedent for extremely successful small nba point guards. I think it could be argued that if the pg is super talented, he can overcome being smaller than average--probably this is generally true for any position, but maybe a little bit more true even for point guards??
a midget
by cjurmann on Apr 10, 2008 6:43 PM CDT up reply actions
Well
I'd rather take a guy who plays
The Bulls are still trying to figure out what position half their roster plays.
I think that's a good point
But has that ever worked? When I think undersized shooting guards, the names Acie Law, Dajuan Wagner, and Randy Foye come to mind. Learning how to run an offense seems to take more than just athleticism. I guess you an argument could be made with Billups, although it took him 9 years in the league to average over 6apg, which I'd imagine isn't the type of project the Bulls are looking for. It also didn't work out for the undersized SG drafted right after Billups (Antonio Daniels). Is Westbrook really all that different from any of those guys?
I'd happily cross Mayo and Westbrook off Paxson's list. I'm not convinced either is an upgrade over Thabo.
You must not have seen Mayo play this year
mayo
http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/O.J.-Mayo-238/
And I got the impression he might be a taller slightly better version of kirk. Thats just from reading the weaknesses/strengths thing on the left.
Not that we should completely take these scounting reports as fact, but he doesn't seem like much of a solution.
by Sambossanova on Apr 11, 2008 7:37 AM CDT up reply actions
My one mental red flag on Mayo
Good for a laugh is that NBADraft.net compares him to Stephon Marbury...and DraftExpress has him going to the Knicks at number five.
isn't NBADraft.net a joke
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 11, 2008 10:29 AM CDT up reply actions
Mayo compared to Marbury
Marbury wanted to be in a big market, so he left KG in Minnesota. The only problem was he isn't that marketable - unless you consider the Starbury line available at Steve & Barry's evidence of Marbury being a marketable superstar. The whole store is $8.95 and Ben Wallace has some apparel there too.
Mayo
Also, he's got the "I'm going to be a superstar and lead my team to a title" mentality and I really think that's something this team needs right now.
I dunno
I'm in the camp that thinks his athleticism is somewhat overrated, at least at the moment. I'm certainly willing to be proven wrong. I think he's very athletic for the college game, but he doesn't strike me as superlative compared to the NBA guys in the NBA.
I do see plenty of skills, and he seems like a smart kid, but the "I'm going to be a superstar" mentality doesn't work all that well when you're not actually a superstar (See: Hughes, Larry or Crawford, Jamal).
I figured
I like Mayo
However, I don't think he'll fall to the Bulls, and if we're going to trade up I think low post scoring is too big a need on this team...which brings me back to Brook Lopez.
when did Mayo
What are you implying here?
Knowing bullshooter
I don't wanna beat a dead horse here, but...
With the #8 or #9 pick in a deep draft, I want the Bulls to draft someone who can be an elite player. Looking at this list, what's the realistic ceiling for Westbrook's assists/game in the near future? 5? 6? And considering he's not a great shooter and he rarely shoots 3's or gets to the free throw line...
I'm just not seeing it. Seems like a backup guard to me.
I still don't know Hinrich's limitations...
Hinrich isn't great, but he has been damn good.
Kirk
- His assist and turnover numbers aren't much out of line. His turnovers were up early, but they were up at the start of every year. He always starts out like dogshit.
- A bigger problem is that he's reverted to the not so consistent shooting he's displayed throughout most of his career. I think he's really a complementary player at this level. Put him next to a really good player and he'll do well. Last year, with a hot Deng, Gordon, and Noc, he had lots of good looks. This year (and in prior years) that wasn't the case, and he doesn't shoot well with a guy in his face.
- The biggest problem doesn't show up well in statistics at all. And that is simply that Kirk looks a couple steps slower, and seems to have given up the really tenacious defense that's been his biggest asset in the league. PGs, SGs, damn near everyone has blown by him at will this year, and with (early) a dead man and (late) a couple of clueless kids manning the interior, this has been really exposed.
All in all, I still think we can do really well with Kirk. I mean, if we could get a star quality upgrade at the point, I wouldn't turn it down, but I think he can do the job competently with the right teammates. To get him back on track I think we'd benefit from a new enforcer inside to anchor the defense (letting Noah and/or Thomas block shots) and to get our wings playing well.
Okay, agreed.
*I'm not convinced that getting someone who can do these things but can't do other things like shooting or defending, just because he better fits the stereotype of a PG, is necessarily the right thing to do.
Chris Douglas-Roberts
I'm not opposed to CD-R
Is there an NBA combine?
by NBA Observer on Apr 10, 2008 7:19 PM CDT up reply actions
CDR is the guy
by bullshooter on Apr 10, 2008 10:18 PM CDT up reply actions
For the tournament, he averaged:
9 free throw makes per game, for 80%
He shot 47% from the field and averaged 23.4 points.
But you're right--he's not Michael Jordan.
I only saw two of his games this year
by bullshooter on Apr 10, 2008 11:21 PM CDT up reply actions
Let me attempt a feeble and likely inadaquate
In the pros, if your team is trying to protect a late-game lead, and your opponent is fouling, stopping the clock and hoping for misses, the ball will usually be exclusively in the hands of your designated super high percentage foul shooters.
CDR would probably not be one of them.
Still...there's no denying he didn't come through at the line with the game on the line vs. KU.
If you've only seen a guy play twice all year...
if that was a criterion for anything
Yeah
Still, it was pretty not good to see him rattled like that. Definitely a strike against him.
On the whole, however, I don't think it changes my opinion that he looks like the best guy that's likely to be available with our pick. He's not perfect, it's as much by a process of eliminating the other guys as it is about him, but there's still a lot to like about him.
If that's the best guy available
Don't dump a good asset because you hold a bad one
It looks like there are only two
Barring that, number two on my draft hierarchy wish list is to get a player who is an upgrade at our greatest need position. I put this question out to the crowd a few weeks ago, and snley responded that the Bulls are evenly mediocre across the board, so any upgrade at any position would suffice.
Personally, I think the team's weakest link is front court scoring, making a player like Brooks Lopez a more efficient upgrade than, say, a player like Joe Alexander or Chase Budinger.
As you suggest, this would require a trade--not out of the draft, but up a few spots, probably to four or five. For contract reasons, the bait for that switch would only be restricted to not Gordon or Deng. I might take Noah off the list of tradables, but that'd be about it.
Thorpe was making the case for Rush over CDR
by Orlando Woolridge on Apr 10, 2008 8:14 PM CDT up reply actions
Most mocks I've seen
CDR is a student too
I like his game too.
by NBA Observer on Apr 10, 2008 7:17 PM CDT up reply actions
He's not that athletic.
I can't decide between Rush and Budinger. Budinger shows more of an ability to create his own shot and, at least in his last game, the willingness to do it. I didn't see that once from Rush, and I really wanted to. OTOH, Budinger is considered to be "soft" and Rush is the far-superior defender.
If all three turn out to be role players, then Rush will be the best one. However, Budinger and CD-R probably have the greater potential to be a go-to guy.
How the hell is that Randolph kid supposed to go
we dont need a big
Roy Hibbert has really fallen in most mocks
by Zac23 on Apr 11, 2008 10:19 AM CDT reply actions
hmm
Love is basically the last thing this team nights right now, other than Psych T. Excuse me while I go vomit at the thought of either putting on a Bulls uni next year...
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