Oden Sweepstakes Update

by bullshooter on Jan 8, 2007 9:19 AM CST

The season is one-third over and before anyone jumps on this morning to voice his/her displeasure with Benny the Bull and offer suggestions for who we could get for our mascot, I thought I'd take a look at the standings. Here's a link to my earlier predictions, which had Philly, one from Memphis, Miami, Seattle, and Toronto, and the Atlantic division. So, without further ado:

Memphis. Even with the return of Gasol, a change of coaches and style, this team has still only managed to win 8. Dump Gasol already...
Philly. Playing hard each night to win as many ping pong balls as possible. This team will be good for a long time with whomever they get from the next draft.
Charlotte. What a pathetic basketball city. Did anybody hear their WNBA team folded? Sad.
Seattle. Duh.
Atlanta. Hot start faded quickly. Do they have any low post scorer's?

Others worth noticing:

NO/OK. Wow, that team hasn't worked out like they had hoped, has it...
Miami, currently sitting just inside the lottery. Hmm, was anybody shocked by this one? Unfortunately for them, I think they have too much pride to get into the top 5. Riley should have slinked off to surgery instead of calling his team out and slapping them in the face when he bailed out on them. They'll be hard pressed to roll over like they need to now.

Unfortunately, everyones favorite train wreck, the New York Knicks are still alive in the Atlantic only one game out of the playoffs and actually rising. They have as much talent as anyone in their division now with the injuries to the Nets and Iverson gone. Toronto has already lost Bosh to an injury once and will need superb guidance and coaching to get that young bunch to the playoffs. Oh well.

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Go Bears!

http://youtube.com/watch?v=eoPjWssKU2M

by JoJoEnglish94bulls4ever on Jan 8, 2007 10:02 AM CST reply actions

DAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

BEARSH!!!!!!!

Deng, he's good!!!!!!!!!

by cubbybear on Jan 8, 2007 10:49 AM CST up reply actions

Let's hope

we see lots of highlights like that from the Bears this weekend.

Thabo....the accent is sweet!!

by sue369 on Jan 8, 2007 10:52 AM CST up reply actions

Who's got a problem with Benny the Bull?

by Moses Taylor on Jan 8, 2007 10:38 AM CST reply actions

Hmmm...

I think the Grizzlies should trade Gasol for a defensive minded PG, a mid-first round draft choice and a couple of expiring PF contracts.

Taking Oden and whatever PF scorer there is at say somewhere between 10-15 in the 1st round would be a good foundation.

But I don't know what trade partners they could use.

by tyger1147 on Jan 8, 2007 11:18 AM CST reply actions

Gasol is only 26

So why not keep him AND get a high draft pick? That's the way they're heading anyway. And unlike most other bottom-feeders they don't get to face the east all the time.

I think trading Gasol would be a mistake...only hope is that perhaps they're so cash-strapped they will 'rebuild' by trading their best (still) young player.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 8, 2007 11:22 AM CST up reply actions

I'd disagree with you for this reason

The East has at least three dominant teams with dominant big men. Memphis has already shown they can't get past SA, Dallas or Phoenix, not to mention LA or even Minn. Punt Gasol and get as many of the big men in this draft as possible. When the aforementioned teams finally decline in 3-5 years, Memphis will be poised to dominate based on what they get in this draft.

by bullshooter on Jan 8, 2007 11:35 AM CST up reply actions

I meant the west

by bullshooter on Jan 8, 2007 11:35 AM CST up reply actions

Good point...

In 3-5 years, Yao will be 30, Duncan and Nowitzki will be past their prime (although still good).

If Memphis got Oden AND McRoberts/Hansbrough (both whom seem to have slipped to the "Knicks range")... All you need is one of the two to fulfill his potential and the other to come close. That gives them either an incredible center and above-average PF, or very good at both positions. Plus, in 3-5 years, both positions will be 24-25 and ready to enter their prime.

Yes, a #1 overall pick in this draft (Oden) combined with anything else in the top 13-15 would be a great foundation.

by tyger1147 on Jan 8, 2007 12:02 PM CST up reply actions

in 3-5 years

Gasol will be 29-31 years old. That's still his prime.

This is why draftniks annoy me: hyping up guys who've never played an NBA game to be better than Pau Gasol, when the chance of multiple players like that in the same draft is pretty small. Why trade Gasol for a chance at someone who might be as good as Gasol in 3 years? If he was a little older I'd understand it more.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 8, 2007 12:04 PM CST up reply actions

Two reasons

Gasol hasn't proven he's that good. Sure he did well in the worlds this year, but has he won a playoff game yet? He's had decent teams, but he's turning into a Euro-KG...
It's like the old saying goes, "Two in the bush is worth one in the hand..." or something like that. Owners don't like disgruntled franchise players when they are trying to sell teams. Plus 29-31 is your prime in baseball, not basketball and this team is going youth now.

by bullshooter on Jan 8, 2007 12:13 PM CST up reply actions

Grrrzlees

The best teams Gasol has been on have included Jason Williams and James Posey in pivotal roles. I think Garnett's playoff failures have been a little more spectacular. Either way both have been on mediocre to bad teams in a conference with very good, and deep rosters. I love to rip Garnett for losing too, but even when Minnesota put good players around him there was no stability; contract issues, trade rumors, and actual trades ruined way too many seasons before they even started.

by Paxson Jackson @ Blog a Bull on Jan 8, 2007 12:25 PM CST up reply actions

True...

But my point was that IF the second draft pick turns out to be very good, and Oden lives upt to his potential (which his comeback has not shown any reason he shouldn't), that makes Memphis THE #1 team to beat from 2010-2020.

OTOH, if they keep Gasol... they have to hope that Oden becomes semi-dominant by 2010 and they'll be a contender, perhaps a favorite. And then, of course, they have to resign Gasol and hope he ages well.

But you're right, it's a differing in strategies. I can understand your frustration seeing as it somewhat failed with the Bulls. But Oden is way more highly regarded that Curry or Chandler AND McRoberts/Hansbrough would have two years on those guys after being coached by two outstanding college coaches.

Anyway, it's just a differing of opinion. The real question is whether Oden actually comes out. If not, then it is a bad gamble, IMO.

by tyger1147 on Jan 8, 2007 12:25 PM CST up reply actions

2010-2020???

You're out of your mind. I haven't seen Oden play yet, and on hype alone that's crazy. The Grizz don't even know what's happenning to the franchise next week.

by Paxson Jackson @ Blog a Bull on Jan 8, 2007 12:28 PM CST up reply actions

He's good...

So you haven't seen him play therefore I'm basing it on hype? Hmm...

No, I understand, it's a big statement. But Tim Duncan was a huge prospect coming out of college, and the Spurs have been pretty dominant the entire time they've had him. (Yes, they have had a great coach, organization and players around him, too.)

Anyway, everything is hype, isn't it?

But anyway, isn't the fact that they don't know what's happening next week even more reason for them to trade Gasol? Typically is. But maybe not.

by tyger1147 on Jan 8, 2007 12:46 PM CST up reply actions

Oden Hype

Oden is better then Wilt, he will avg 35 pts, 20 boards, and 5 blocks ;)

by NY Chicago Fan on Jan 8, 2007 12:47 PM CST up reply actions

But will he sleep with 20,000 women?

by Big D on Jan 8, 2007 11:19 PM CST up reply actions

great reply

by milesgmsu on Jan 10, 2007 6:12 PM CST up reply actions

100% agree Gasol over Hype

Gasol is proven good player that has put up #s in NBA and led team in international play against good talent.

Most drafts only have a handful of all-stars at best. Easy to look at players potential and get excited but potential doesn't win games.

I would say its better to have all-star in mid20s then to trade for draft pick, especially when Grizzles will already have a lottery pick, and Rudy Gay, Warrick as young guys on team.

by NY Chicago Fan on Jan 8, 2007 12:45 PM CST up reply actions

trying to win games or championships?

That's what this boils down to. Gasol is a good player, but he hasn't shown he can get his team over the hump. If they keep him I am sure they win games, but they've done that. This is the same reason we got rid of Curry and Chandler.

The funny thing is, the more I make an argument for the Grizzles to trade him, the less I want the Bull's to trade for him...

by bullshooter on Jan 8, 2007 12:56 PM CST up reply actions

Gasol a winner?

Has Gasol ever been on a team that was supposed to win in playoffs? I'm not sure its fair to say he is not a winner at this point.

by NY Chicago Fan on Jan 8, 2007 1:04 PM CST up reply actions

last three years in playoffs

He's been on a 49 and a 50 win team. They had bad matchups, but I'd expect them to win at least one or two games as opposed to being shutout. To contrast, the Bulls won 47 and 41 games the last two years and won 4 games in the playoffs, including two against the eventual champs last year.

by bullshooter on Jan 8, 2007 1:11 PM CST up reply actions

I suppose Memphis

has choked, but still played tougher opponents than the Bulls, blah-blah-blah. I can't say I've been bragging about the 2 wins against the Heat in the playoffs.

The Memphis heyday supporting cast of Williams, Posey, Miller, and Wright are 4 players not many teams would be excited to have then, let alone now. I personally expected nothing from the Grrrzz in the playoffs in recent memory, and as good as Gasol is he isn't the super versatile made-in-a-basketball-laboratory talent like Garnett who has been expected to win games all by himself. It seems like the debate is who is labeled what, and doesn't really go anywhere. I think the better question is, who would help the Bulls more?

by Paxson Jackson @ Blog a Bull on Jan 8, 2007 1:23 PM CST up reply actions

That was my point in starting this...

I think Gasol helps more this year without hurting the team this year or in the long run.

I think they can trade for Gasol without losing much, including Noc. I mean, why would they want Noc anyway. He'll still be a free agent and it will help them win games (which is sadly, not what they want.)

Hinrich, Sefo
Gordon, Griffin
Deng, Noc
Gasol, Thomas
Wallace, Allen

Seems good to me.

And the Grizz get Brown, Sweetney, Duhon and 1st rounder. Thomas may be needed, I'm not sure. If they got Thomas plus the pick, I think they have to do this deal, don't they? But do the Bulls?

by tyger1147 on Jan 8, 2007 2:07 PM CST up reply actions

I like Gasol for other reasons,

namely if the Bulls did get him the offense wouldn't have to run through him like Garnett, and I agree the price would be lower, but I prefer to pack up Nocioni (he's tough, the shipping material and handling prices go way down) and send him to teams that accept my imaginary trades. Thomas should be able to do more and do it better than Nocioni next season and beyond.

by Paxson Jackson @ Blog a Bull on Jan 8, 2007 2:16 PM CST up reply actions

For a big

I'd rather package Noc than Thomas.

by bullshooter on Jan 8, 2007 2:31 PM CST up reply actions

Noc isn't worth much in a package deal.

He's got an expiring contract for all of $3 million. If the Bulls weren't a contender they could certainly trade him to a contender and get a pick or two in return, but he doesn't do any good in a bigger trade to a rebuilding team. You think Minnesota or Memphis would place any value on a three month rental of Noc and the right to compete with the rest of the NBA to resign him?

by Eddy Currys Broken Heart on Jan 8, 2007 3:30 PM CST up reply actions

I'm not certain about that

Any basketball mind gods or capologists know if trading Nocioni could also give a team limited negotiating rights when the free agents are allowed to look at offers?

by Paxson Jackson @ Blog a Bull on Jan 8, 2007 3:35 PM CST up reply actions

Well, he's not a restricted free agent.

If he had been a draft pick, it would be a different situation. Obviously any team that acquired Noc would get a three month head start on negotiations, but Noc would be nuts not to explore the free agent market before signing.

by Eddy Currys Broken Heart on Jan 8, 2007 3:43 PM CST up reply actions

restricted or not

I've read that he IS a restricted FA, but none of the capology sites verify that.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 8, 2007 6:31 PM CST up reply actions

ESPN says you're right.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2654216

Hoopshype doesn't list any qualifying offer necessary by the Bulls, so I'm still not sure.

by Eddy Currys Broken Heart on Jan 8, 2007 7:35 PM CST up reply actions

the other thing

if Gasol is worth keeping, they aren't going to finish with the worst record and most ping pong balls either. This team will come together at some point this season, especially in the second half when other teams start dumping games. Unless Gasol comes down with a mysterious back injury...

by bullshooter on Jan 8, 2007 1:15 PM CST up reply actions

Michael Redd out 4-6

So much for Milwaukee. Looks like Miami will get some competition for fastest sinking ship. Here's the story.

by bullshooter on Jan 9, 2007 10:04 AM CST reply actions

Mo Williams was hurt last night

Charlie V may have surgery....so yeah, they're in trouble.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 9, 2007 10:27 AM CST up reply actions

And Bobby Simmons...

Wasn't he Most Improved 2 years ago? Yeah. Averaged 16 ppg. 13 last year. He's been out all year.

by tyger1147 on Jan 9, 2007 12:09 PM CST up reply actions

They could get real good in a hurry

with a high draft pick this year.

by bullshooter on Jan 9, 2007 12:42 PM CST up reply actions

and out

a lot last year. There's free agent money wasted, so far.

He's having an operation on his foot. That's just not good.

by KT on Jan 9, 2007 6:46 PM CST up reply actions

Too bad for Mo

he still could rake in a killing this off season though.

"all the girls loved BJ." -sue369

by Colossus @ Blog a Bull on Jan 9, 2007 8:07 PM CST up reply actions

Durant

I think it's come to the point where I would take Durant over Oden. I know the Bulls would love to have a player like Oden but I think it would be just like the 84 draft when Houston took Hakeem number 1 and the Bulls landed MJ at 3. I think Durant is going to be a megastar in this league. It's hard to pass on those kind of guys even if you could use the low post help like the Bulls need.

by Option27 on Jan 10, 2007 12:58 PM CST reply actions

Durant is playing great.

But how hard is it really when you're playing with your actual shooting hand? Try ramping up the degree of difficulty by taking nine months off and playing left handed, then we'll talk.

Oden + Wallace next year = best defensive, worst offensive front line ever.

by Eddy Currys Broken Heart on Jan 10, 2007 2:38 PM CST up reply actions

What your saying

is what Houston said about pairing Hakeem up with Sampson. Don't get me wrong, I think the duo of Wallace and Oden would be nice but to pass on a megastar like Durant would be a mistake.

by Option27 on Jan 10, 2007 2:44 PM CST up reply actions

No guarantees.

I would say that both Durant and Oden have been dominant this year (in different ways). It's impossible to say Durant will be a megastar based on half a season, especially in college basketball where you play mostly scrubs in the preseason.

He and Oden both have NBA superstar potential, but most teams will go with a center before a forward.

by Eddy Currys Broken Heart on Jan 10, 2007 2:57 PM CST up reply actions

uh,

isn't Oden a megastar in the making? That's what I've been lead to believe anyway.

by Paxson Jackson @ Blog a Bull on Jan 10, 2007 2:57 PM CST up reply actions

how do you know

why does Oden suck at offense? Based on a few college games without a healthy strong hand why should anyone be able to tell if he is good or not at offense?

by NY Chicago Fan on Jan 10, 2007 3:02 PM CST up reply actions

Eventually he might be good.

I just can't imagine Oden doing much besides dunking as an NBA rookie. Especially considering he hasn't been able to work on shooting at all this season.

As good as Dwight Howard is, he's just now starting to develop some semblance of a post game.

by Eddy Currys Broken Heart on Jan 10, 2007 3:05 PM CST up reply actions

Hakeem was a megastar as well

I would just rather have someone who could dominate in multiple ways like Durant. He looks like Garnett with a killer jump shot. I think Tyrus could be expandable after we get him. And a frontcourt of Durant and Wallace would be just as great as Oden and Wallace. Durant is a man amongst boys right now in college. I haven't seen someone like him come out in a long time. Same with Oden, but someone as vesatile as Durant and gifted is too hard to pass on. I believe in Pax and trust he'll make the best judgement for the team and once he sees the kid in workouts, he'll be very tempted to trade maybe even Gordon and a pick to get Durant.

by Option27 on Jan 10, 2007 3:03 PM CST reply actions

Just trust me on this one.

Kevin Durant will be the next big thing in the N.B.A. in a couple years. I'm talking about the whole package. Another LeBron.

by Option27 on Jan 10, 2007 3:04 PM CST up reply actions

why would we trust you?

you don't know shit. nobody does! I HATE THE DRAFT!

(or can it at least wait 'til the offseason?)

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 10, 2007 3:31 PM CST up reply actions

just trust me

cause trusting me means shit. figure of speech. that's all. why do people take things so literal?

by Option27 on Jan 11, 2007 9:54 AM CST up reply actions

oden

he seems a bit slow for his age. I thought he was more athletic but after watching the wisconsin and florida games he seems kinda slow. He still is by far the best defensive player on the floor at any point against any team and isnt too shabby offensiviely either playing with that injured wrist.

by Sambossanova on Jan 10, 2007 4:06 PM CST reply actions