Throwing Shit At the Wall or Its Trade Machine Season
First, I have been wanting to post this since last night, but sbn was acting up for me so i was unable to. Then i finally sign on and find out From the window to luol posted a kick ass trade that beats the crap out of mine...I then decided to just post my trade in his post as to not create multiple trade scenerios, but after i was done writing and i hit preview, well....it was pretty long. So i didnt want to disrespect that awesome trade thread with my own crappy trade that takes up an entire window, so i ended up making this fanpost anyway...
so without further ado, here it is
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=839bf6o
Its Oj Mayo and Sam Young for Cj Watson and Brewer.
Its not that oj mayo is some kind of answer, he really isnt. I wont even try to argue that hes some all-star, ive long considered that oj mayo at best is larry hughes with a better head on his shoulders. For the grizz oj mayo has been streaky, he sort of struggles with whether he should be a pg or a sg, but theres no question his mentality is that more of a sg than a pg. And that is why Mayo works well for the bulls.
Cj watson has two roles on the bulls. Hes either the pg for the offensively deprived bench mob, or he is playing the off guard next to rose to prevent traps. In both situations, cj is sort of at a disadvantage. In the former, the problem is cj’s pure scoring ability. With only kyle korver providing any real offense, cj has to consantly pick and choose spots to score, mainly off of jumpers. This stagnates the offense. For the latter, cj becomes a defensive liability due to size. Oj mayo however would not have these problems.
He might not be as efficient as cj in terms of scoring, and he may be a far spottier spot up shooter, but oj mayo still has some solid scoring instincts and has quite a bit of variety. He can attack the rim strong with his athleticism, he has a very fluid pull up jumper, and is a solid long range shooter (shooting .40 this year and .38 career).
The bulls bench offense usually consists of korver running off of many screens and cj attempting to get him the right pass or an open big while spacing the floor. Teams like miami are good at taking away the right pass or the open floor and cj is often stuck in a position where he has to create something, and its not his forte. Oj mayo in those iso situations would be right at home and would command enough defensive attention.
Next to rose, oj mayo is a solid defender and ball handler. Rose can give him the ball and know that oj mayo is capable of making something happen. Hes got sg size and athleticism and can handle the ball like a pg, and has improved his play making abilities.
So why is memphis giving up a guy that does so much, because they are getting an upgrade at backup point. For memphis, its been the opposite. The grizz need a backup pg more than a backup sg. They need someone who can run the offense, who can throw it down low to marc or zbo and just effectively initiate the offense giving conley some spells. The grizz have a bit more offensive fire power in their bigs, and they like working the ball inside and out. And cj fits that mold more, since it means less iso and more play running. Cj’s a better spot up shooter than oj mayo as well, and a good defender at the pg position. hes far more fitted for that backup behind conley.
The other two trade pieces are sam young and brewer. essentially both are sort of the same type of player, brewer probably being the better one. This move is more pro memphis, but its one i think chicago can afford due to jimmy butler. Butler i think has proven at least one thing, hes a good defender at the sf position. Sam young is a very good defender himself, but hes better at defending sgs than sfs at the moment. This is a shame because tony allen is also on the team and is head and shoulders above sam young. This move saves the bulls money, allows them to retain a defensive wing, and sweetens the pot for memphis. The bulls can now follow up by giving pryz that mle and still having emergency cap money just in case. So ultimately this is what the bulls look like
Player (min)
rose(36)/oj mayo(10) /jl3(2)
Rip(30)/Mayo(16)/Young(10)
Deng(36)/Korver(10)/Butler(2)
Boozer(32)/Taj (16)
Noah(35)/Asik (8)/ Pryz (5)
*Minutes are on the basis of IDEAL, and doesnt take account thibs favoritism.
The bench mob looks like:
Oj/Young/Korver/Taj/Asik
offensively the bulls now attract a lot more attention on the perimeter which allows taj easier jumpers and asik more open space. You can easily slide korver to sg and put butler at sf as well. Ultimately the trade gives both teams bench an upgrade offensively, and having oj mayo as a 6th man as opposed to korver or cj allows you to have someone who can provide offense, ball handling, and defense at a solid level. Its a small trade, and maybe the bulls are overpaying, but they really arent losing anything in they need or any long term assets and gaining a potential 6th man.
So thats the trade. Doesnt compare to the pau blockbuster, but i think its something doable for both teams, and helps us ensure victory of the heats without losing depth or changing the system too much. Also, you can still pull out the howard trade as well...
FanPosts are user-created posts from the BlogABull community, and are to be treated as the opinions and views of that particular user, not that of the blogger or blog community as a whole.
25 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
Sorry piccolo
i just don’t like it.
First of all, I don’t think Mayo’s all that good, but what’s more is he’s up for an extension this year and will go high becuase of his mostly preNBA hype machine rep and age, so we won’t bring him back.
Young’s alright, but so is Brewer, and I’d take Brewer for a few years over Young and I like Watson more than Mayo.
Ultimately, I don’t think this puts us over any hump this year, and what’s worse when we lose Mayo this summer, it makes us worse for the next year.
The kid's out of this world. He's got Allen Iverson speed, Jason Kidd's vision, Chauncey Billups' shooting ability and Michael Jordan's athleticism. How do you guard that? - Pacers coach Frank Vogel.
Im not a huge fan of mayo either
but i think the bulls still have that problem of a second ball handler at the sg position, mayo could resign with teh bulls if it works out, but if it doesnt its off the books and we have a full mle to use. Its not like cj and brewer are irreplaceable assets…..
Waiting for the Prodigal Son to Return KH12 BITCHES!!!!
In the Chemi-meter we trust!
No, but the tandem
Are better than Mayo and Young.
I’m up for trading them, but not for 2 players that are probably both inferior to each counterpart (CJ > Mayo, and Brewer > Young).
Plus it’s very unlikely we bring back Mayo next year (a lot of teams still have interest and he’s not worth the money he’ll likely get at least $5-8M/yr I’d estimate mostly on that rep) and then we’re left with a hole to fill.
I think Brewer and Watson fill our team well.
I think our biggest weakness is still easy post scores. We get some because of Rose’s brilliance and tip ins, but when the going is tough it would be great to have a back to the basket player to help keep the D honest and create some scoring there to go alongside Rose…..
The kid's out of this world. He's got Allen Iverson speed, Jason Kidd's vision, Chauncey Billups' shooting ability and Michael Jordan's athleticism. How do you guard that? - Pacers coach Frank Vogel.
that trade was proposed
here, on espn. not sure if window got it from there or came up with it separately, but that’s where i saw it first.
and i was already against this trade. i don’t want to give up cj without getting a real ball handler back. mayo couldn’t prove against summer league scrubs that he could play the point.
Look
I didn’t want to offend anyone by saying the "f" word or generalizing my statement to any particular sex by saying "gays" or lesbians" or "bi’s" so "homos" is the most "politically correct" term. I’m just trying to be more tact in a tactless blog.
by Hindut Patrol on Feb 15, 2011 2:51 PM EST
im just thinking
that cj doesnt really play the pg like a traditional pg at any rate, and the bench needs scoring, and those times rose is being trapped it would be nice if he was next to an actual sg who can handle the ball and not force the issue of who guards the sg. It would be nice to have a sg sized shot creator next to rose.
Waiting for the Prodigal Son to Return KH12 BITCHES!!!!
In the Chemi-meter we trust!
you still need a backup pg though
lucas is an unacceptable solution.
Look
I didn’t want to offend anyone by saying the "f" word or generalizing my statement to any particular sex by saying "gays" or lesbians" or "bi’s" so "homos" is the most "politically correct" term. I’m just trying to be more tact in a tactless blog.
by Hindut Patrol on Feb 15, 2011 2:51 PM EST
by Jaina on Feb 6, 2012 3:53 PM CST up reply actions 3 recs
Here is something to consider
CJ is a better scorer than Mayo. CJ is assisted on a lower percentage of his scores AND he scores with more efficiency. Why would we take a downgrade in scoring off the bench? I get that Mayo is taller and younger, but is there any basketball skill he is better at that would help the Bulls? CJ is a more efficient scorer, better at getting his own shot, a better passer, not sure about better defender but he has looked great under Thibs, heck, CJ has even been a better rebounder this year! I’ll pass.
by DRoseO1 on Feb 6, 2012 3:20 PM CST reply actions 2 recs
i sort of talk about it above
yea cj is the more effective scorer, mainly because, especially this year, hes been choosing his spots well in the flow of offense, and hes been pretty great from 3pt land. Oj mayo i think just from a skills standpoint has more scoring versatility. Hes more athletic, more explosive, hes got a fluid jumper especially off the dribble from a mechanics standpoint. I think its sort of like the rudy fernandez case. both rudy and oj had rookie years where i think they displayed their skill sets, but they were forced to adapt to a system and roster that demanded they play in a way that didnt mesh with their strengths and their game suffered. You see rudy in denver and hes looking more and more like rookie year rudy. Memphis has pretty much screwed with oj mayo sense his rookie year in terms of playing style and minutes, not to mention contract. They constantly ask him to backup conley and he struggles with it because the team still likes to run things through the post for obvious reasons.
Waiting for the Prodigal Son to Return KH12 BITCHES!!!!
In the Chemi-meter we trust!
At this point Watson is pretty much as good as Mayo is. Mayo is an inch taller but other than that, I don’t think he’s that much better than Watson.
he can create his own shot which cj cannot really do
cj really is just a jumpshooter
Damn am I good or what? I told you guys New York would win a title this year!!
The guy dropped 32 on the Nugs last year
But yeah, he can’t get his own shot…
"Violence is not always the answer."
"Violence is the question, and the answers always YES!"
I'd take a flier on Mayo for Brewer
I don’t want to see CJ go because he is currently one of our best all around players on the bench. With Rose’s injury issues and with how well CJ is playing, no way do I give him up for a guy that we want to do some of the same things. I would however do Brewer + Charlotte pick for Mayo because I think we need more scoring off the bench and I think Mayo could do reasonably well in the Bulls defensive system.
i don't like it either.
cj is posting a 21+ PER right now, and is maybe the team’s third best outside shooter. and i don’t think either player in the return comes close to ronnie’s defense.
DUNK HIS ASS
by obnoxious american on Feb 7, 2012 11:59 AM CST reply actions
I don't understand why so many people are down on Mayo
Obviously he isn’t going to be the superstar he was projected to be coming into the league. But he’s still a very good and very talented player. I think he’s better offensively than CJ, he just doesn’t fit the system in Memphis or get enough opportunities. Though he is playing well this year. The only thing I would question about Mayo is his defense. It’s been pretty pathetic and it doesn’t make sense. It seems like he should at least be average defensively and maybe he would under the right system and teacher (Thibs).
What I would propose is trying to keep CJ and team him with Mayo. CJ seems to have gotten the handle of playing point and doing well – keep him there. Then add in Mayo’s scoring ability and you have a very nice reserve backcourt that both are capable of handling the ball, scoring, and hitting the 3.
CJ's been playing better overall, the stats here it out
Mayo is decent but he’s still overrated because he was a 3rd overall pick so people think he’s a potential star. He’s not….he’s basically Larry Hughes with less height and a slightly better shot. CJ is outplaying him and plays better D and shots much better from 3pt range
OJ stats
25 minutes
12.4 ppg, 3 reb, 2 assists/2 TOs
43% FG and 39% 3PT
CJ stats
20 minutes
10.4 PPG, 2 reb, 4 assists/1.5 TOs
42% FG 49% 3PT
it would be nice to trade CJ, simply because its inefficient to have your 3rd best player
play the same position as your best player. but youd want to make a fairly even trade obviously, and i dont see that happening. certainly not with mayo.
"A household is a business given over to caring for small, temporarily insane people, a business subject to cash-flow problems, endless legal harassments, run by people who expect to have sex with each other, who occupy the same space, and who go nuts when either party has sex with anyone else. Once in marriage, a lot of people try to get out as fast as religious tradition, poverty, or devotion to children permits.""
I should sort of add this caveat
a big reason i sort of considered the oj maayo trade is because i feel the bulls have a weakness. Its much like miami’s weakness to the zone, and that is the full court trap for rose.
Imagine if miami does the trap with a lineup of wade, miller, lebron, haslem, bosh. So far the bulls have deployed two counters to the trap; put cj in next to rose, or have noah be the play maker. I like neither idea. I dislike the latter because, if the heat run the trap with the lineup above, cj watson is going to have to defend either miller or wade, which isnt going to fly. Not only that, the heats wings are wade and lebron, who will literally fly to shooters like korver and cj and deng. The former might work better against the heat, or the heat will bait him into throwing a bad pass or drive and create a turnover, which the heat feast on.
Oj mayo has sg size and strength, which means guys like miller and wade wont be able to bully him. So he wont be a liability. And mayo in a trap scenerio can ultimately create his own shot and score not just with a jumper but by taking the ball to the rim. He is a pretty athletic guard.
I dont think mayo is an all-star, or anything like that. I even said it in my O.P. that i dont think hes better than cj really, but i think he can play the role of a backup pg for the 12 minutes or so rose sits, while also being able to be that wing player who you could put next to rose during those trap situations.
I cant see any sort of situation that lands of JR smith, and its impossible to have both jr smith and pryz. I think this trade allows us to have a very good 2 guard who can create plays and has enough athleticism to fit in thibs defensive strategies while also not losing anything that we need. It also allows us to retain the capspace to sign a guy like pryz, and since good big men are always hard to find, i think its important to sign pryz just in case. Finally, it also allows us to keep the right assets in case a howard trade happens. If a howard trade somehow does happen, we lose our only other playmaker in noah, and are stuck with cj and the mismatch on defense, or trust hedo to make plays, which i dont…..
This trade isnt so much to increase production (though it is possible, mayo still has a chance to become a productive player and perhaps a change in enviroment would help) but its more of a strrategical trade to rid ourselves of a potential weakness without giving up the farm or waiting till next year. With butler showing that he is a solid defender, and brewer showing a bit of inability of guarding sfs, ive been thinking getting a 2 guard who can defend, create, and score in a variety of ways is neccessary and important. And since jr smith probably wont happen, oj mayo is the only guard that fits the bill and is most likely available….
Waiting for the Prodigal Son to Return KH12 BITCHES!!!!
In the Chemi-meter we trust!
Did you forgot Rip Hamilton is on the team
Or do you just think he won’t be healthy enough to help the Bulls this year?
I really fail to see how this upgrades the Bulls at any position.
All trades go through Orlando
Because the Bulls are in holding pattern until the DHoward matter is settled. I think CJ Watson would be a player Orlando might be interested in considering how poorly Jameer Nelson is playing.
I also dont think any trade will improve the Bulls this year, short of trading for Dwight Howard. Therefore, if I am looking to make a trade, I might actually do a trade that weakens the team this year but may help the team next year and after.
I would consider the following trade with the Utah Jazz:
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=794jsm3
Utah wants an upgrade at PG and have a glut at the forward. Considering how well CJ is playing atm, they may consider him as a starter. Korver’s contract is also nonguaranteed next year. If the Jazz can trade Devin Harris for an expiring contract, they can open up over $12 million in salary cap in the offseason.
Chicago should consider this because Derrick Favors could develop into a consistent interior threat that the team needs.
Similarly, I would also try to gauge Omir Asik’s trade value at the moment. If they can trade Omir and the Charlotte pick for a top-10 pick in the 2012 draft, I would strongly consider that too. The upcoming draft is a strong draft, so maybe the Bulls can draft a potential star to pair with DRose.

by 














