Pick and roll

by G unit Rams on Feb 18, 2012 7:54 AM CST

I have seen around the wed in comments and even articles that other PG use the screen better then Rose. I think its the most ridiculous thing i have heard. Boozer(who i support and i think is doing well this year) and Noah (who i love) SUCK at picks they move out of the way of the defending PG and let him just get past the screen with no effort. This is a big problem in my opinion. Has anyone else noticed this? it is driving me crazy that those big guys just move out of the way of the small PG and let them get to rose so quick they need to stand strong block roses defender then move for the roll. All they do is move on the side of the defender and then as soon as rose goes to use the pick the big man(booze noah or gibson) just move out of the way and dont even get a little push on the defender.

I have read about a lot of bulls weaknesses that i dont agree with at all but this one needs to be address because if our soft big men did a better job at screens Rose would bring his game to even another level

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I agree completely...

you have to make contact on screens before rolling. They teach that to 4th graders! I do not know why Thibs does not rectify this.

Schindler's List is, at the most basic level, a remake of Jurassic Park... ~Zizek

by THEKILLERWHALE on Feb 18, 2012 12:05 PM CST reply actions

guys those are by design

They are called “slip screens” It’s designed by Thibs to make an easy little passes to Noah and Booze when they double Rose. That’s why Noah and Booze are often by the freethrow line or high post. Thibs let’s Noah and Booze facilitate because he knows they’re good passers.

by MartyMondays on Feb 18, 2012 1:59 PM CST via mobile reply actions

The need variety in running the screens

They always slip the screen which means Rose is going to get doubled. Look at last Sunday’s game against the Celtics Rondo was getting into the paint at will on pick and roll and a lot of those screens Garnett wasn’t stonewalling Watson or Lucas. The reason Paul and Williams are considered elite pick and roll guareds is because their bigs will slip screens and dive right to the front of the him. They don’t this all the time but they do it enough to keep the defense of balance and give them passing angles.

They can save the world if they don't kill each other first.

by squadron supreme on Feb 18, 2012 2:30 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs

Perhaps these are intentional, but they are wildly ineffective.

This idea that a slip screen facilitates “easy little passes” for wide-open shots is incorrect (at least as far as the Bulls go). Everything that is wrong with our high pick-and-roll hinges on this. As Miami and GS have shown, if you aggressively trap on the high screen and roll, you cut off Rose’s passing lane to the screener and force him to make a wild pass or dribble blindly out of the double team.

Consider the following collections of videos (thanks to thetwomangame for these collections).

Screens with no contact:

Screens with contact:

This illustrates everything that is (was?) wrong with the Bulls offense! Maybe they are by design but isn’t Thibs supposed to watch a ton of tape?

Schindler's List is, at the most basic level, a remake of Jurassic Park... ~Zizek

by THEKILLERWHALE on Feb 18, 2012 2:35 PM CST up reply actions

it is effective

On the 2nd or third pass. Our offense relies on other teams over pressuring rose. I’ve seem them actually make contact on the screens and Rose just isn’t very good at using them.

Were a team that focuses on off ball movements and backdoor cuts and slashing mire than p and r.

by MartyMondays on Feb 18, 2012 3:03 PM CST via mobile reply actions

and yes its because of out personel

Our players fit our system

by MartyMondays on Feb 18, 2012 3:04 PM CST via mobile up reply actions

no it makes what happen to rose by

lebron and the heat last year possible, these slip screens dont even work on bad teams half the tiem and agianst good teams they work like shit. i want the big man to make a good screen so its rose agianst a pg not rose against a pg and the center our big didnt block out

Rams Bulls and Mets allllllllll day also i do love white castle

by G unit Rams on Feb 18, 2012 10:18 PM CST up reply actions

yes!

you are so correct, brad miller and kurt thomas were great at setting picks. noah and boozer picks are so lazy, if they were better Derrick would be even more effective than he is.

by Slick Ric on Feb 18, 2012 10:40 PM CST reply actions

If we could only go back to the days of Miller and Thomas!

by rick o'shay on Feb 19, 2012 8:18 AM CST up reply actions

Until this season, Rose was having problems finding the pick-setter on hard rolls.

This really isn’t controversial. And it wasn’t only on double teams — not to mention that PGs should love getting doubled off the pick because their big is wide open — but he was having court vision problem to the interior after using picks. He was finding 3-point shooters well, but that was about it.

This year, there’ve been more of those bounce passes to the inside, as he’s learned to mix driving hard off the pick with fading out to give his big more space to cut. through. Honestly, some of the best PNR play we’ve seen from Bulls ball handlers has been Deng and James. Much smaller samples than Rose, but that should add to giving him the opportunity to create off the ball, which would greatly improve his 3-point efficiency and give him a little rest in the beginnings of possessions, if not the luxury of taking a possession off or two until the final seconds of the shot clock.

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by Alex Sonty on Feb 19, 2012 9:33 AM CST reply actions 3 recs

That's some interesting analysis

I have noticed that we don’t seem to get much out of our PnR game other than Rose running along the 3 point line and passing it off to a wing player that may or may not be open, or dishing it to the top of the key to Noah or Boozer and setting up a little play from there.

I would really really like if we could give Rose a rest on some possessions and let someone else run something effectively. I haven’t thought much of Deng running a PnR just because he is not a good ball handler and I haven’t noticed much from his passing game at all. Maybe Rip would be good at it when he comes back.

by TheFunkle on Feb 19, 2012 7:12 PM CST up reply actions