Queue scrutiny of Thibs' minutes management after blowout over horrible Pistons team
No better way to say it; the Pistons are a pile of dung with no redeeming quality and they lost to the Bulls in a way you'd expect.
The Bulls closed out the last 7:20 of the first half on a 20-9 run that put them up 51-35, holding a completely inept Detroit squad to 31% shooting. Mid-way through the third quarter, the Pistons put together an 11-3 run to put them within 12 at the 4:26 mark and closed out the quarter down 71-58. The Bulls opened the fourth with a 5-0 run to put them up by 18, but Detroit responded with an 11-4 run, closing the Bulls lead to 11 at the 6:38 mark. The Pistons wouldn't get any closer for the remainder of the game.
Derrick Rose played all but the final 1:13 of the second half. Luol Deng played the entire third quarter, as well as the first 5:28 of the fourth and another 4:11 after resting 1:28 for 21:39 of playing time in the second half of a game where the Bulls were up by as much as 20 and were never up by less than 11.
Doug Thonus lays out the concern pretty clearly:
The Chicago Bulls are going to make the playoffs. They are going to get a top four seed. There simply is no way this doesn't happen. Quite honestly, it's hard to imagine them not getting a top two seed unless they suffer an injury.
Last year, the Bulls struggled in the playoffs with nagging injuries. Carlos Boozer had a toe. Joakim Noah's ankle never fully recovered. Derrick Rose had something going on that cost him some explosion.
It's time that Tom Thibodeau take in one final lesson from Doc Rivers. In the year Boston lost to the Lakers in game seven, Doc rested all of his players down the stretch. They lost spots in the seeding, but they hit the playoffs with fresh legs. The team then surprised everyone by coming within a Kendrick Perkins injury from winning the NBA title [and almost won in spite of Perk's injury].
The oversimplification of the comparison to the 2010 Celtics aside, there's no denying that the Bulls' health issues last season where in no way helpful. Those injuries were only harmful and they still landed the top seed in the conference and made the Eastern Conference Finals, sparking inevitable 'what ifs' and a raised scrutiny this season -- of all seasons -- where health will prove to be king like no other NBA schedule format.
The criticism is valid, but there's the counter that the core of this Bulls team simply doesn't have the on-court minutes together than the core of the target on which Thonus shamelessly fixates in the same post: the Heat.
There are game situations where you ride your thoroughbreds and others where you take the win and take drastic measures to minimize long-term risk. The scoreboard says you do the latter, but there's an argument that the timing of the Pistons' runs disrupted rotating Rose and Deng out for longer periods of rest.
The argument for Deng is that he sat the Bulls' 20-7 in the 2nd quarter, only playing the first 3:34 and the final 0:46 after playing the entire second quarter. The argument for Rose is that he rested the first 7:07 of that 2nd quarter and that the risk of pulling the most reliable scorer when the team is getting stopped and the opponent is connecting only prolongs the opponent's run, cutting into the deficit, and lowering the win probability.
Thibs' minutes management will be under the microscope all season because of the schedule's nature, the 'what ifs' that followed the Bulls rising above all expectations despite injuries, and the fact that he consistently defies what observers perceive as conventional wisdom. His philosophy is unclear; is riding hot hands and momentum, disciplining and rewarding in-game, pre-planned with contingencies according to prior and upcoming loads? It's easy to jump at one, but all we can say for now is that it's sporadic enough to comfortably say that Thibs goes with his gut. The gut is well-educated with a compulsion for the video room and statistical analysis of how every three-, four-, and five-man unit on his team produces, but there's an unpredictability about it and we're all unsure how many parts of the cocktail are genius and how many are madness.
If you wanna take Sam Smith's advice, just deal with it, I guess:
If you like Thibodeau's coaching, this comes with it.
He believes in playing your best players the most minutes. When the Bulls won championships in the early 1990's, Michael Jordan averaged more than 39 minutes per game and Scottie Pippen averaged just under 39 minutes. And both were slightly older than Rose and Deng are now.
So second guess all you want. I seriously doubt it's changing. And even with Deng not having a strong game Wednesday, Thibodeau took him out midway through the fourth quarter with the Bulls ahead by 11, but brought him back about 90 seconds later for the finish.
Rose has actually played fractions of a minute less so far this season (36.9) than last season (37.4) and his career average (37.1). Deng is second in the league with 39.4 MPG only to Monta Ellis' 40.2 and totaled over a minute less than that average in Wednesday's game. That said, the two both in the top ten in the NBA per game, but surprisingly five of those are guards and four are point guards (Rose, John Wall, Brandon Jennings, and Jarrett Jack).
Rose's bruised elbow
As mentioned in yfBB's recap, X-rays cleared Rose of any serious injury to his elbow after sustaining a rough fall with 3:36 remaining in the game. All in all, Rose said, "It's a bruise, but I'm good. I just got knocked off, but I'm fine. It has happened before so I should be all right. It's just like any other time you fall. You're going to be sore. Thank God we don't play (Thursday) and I can rest."
The more minutes he plays, the more minutes there are for him to get hurt, but the probability of getting hurt is the same in a drive to the basket in the first minute of the game than in the final minutes. There were three bad-looking fouls in that quarter, but they're largely being blown out of proportion. Rose is a daredevil and Ben Gordon's too small to challenge an attempt by Joakim Noah without his arm getting caught wrapped around a part of Noah's body. It sucked that it was his neck, but all was well and there was clearly no intention to wrap up his neck. Please don't say you believe that.
The risk later in blowouts isn't the frustration of competitors being expressed, but that there are two states of playing a sport where everyone's risk of injury heightens: when players play too aggressive and when players are deliberately too passive. We may have seen the latter last night, if anything.
Rose is a tough kid. He played it out, but it's completely reasonable to say the coach had absolutely no reason to send him back out there.
Other notes:
- Lost in the minutes hysteria is that Rose had another perfect night beyond the three-point arc, bricking all six of his long-range attempts. He's now bricked 23 of his last 30 (76.7%), 21 of all 25 (84%) attempts outside of the Staples Center this season, and a whopping 271 of his last 379 (71.5%) since Jan. 7, 2011. In other news, he was also 5-for-5 at the rim, shooting a great 64.9% there this season and his long-2 attempts are down to two per game from 4.5 last season and 6.9 in 2009-10, according to Hoopdata.
- C.J. Watson actually dislocated his elbow. "I just felt it pop out of place and suffered a lot of pain. I was hoping it wouldn't be anything really, really bad but I knew I would be out for a bit. When I bent it myself it popped back into place. I guess that was a good thing. [...] They're saying a week or so or day-to-day depending on how much pain I can handle."
- John Lucas III is getting it done. He's 4-for-7 (57.1%) on 3s for 14 points, four assists, two rebounds, and two turnovers in 23 minutes. His eFG% is .583 over the minute sample and the turnover rate's an acceptable 14.3%, the assist rate's over 30% (31.8%) and his PER's at 18.9. The defense can make the eyes bleed, but he's the 5'11" backup to the backup. Solid guy to have. (Stats via Basketball-Reference)
- Thibs picked his spots wisely to throw the halfcourt trap against the ballstopping Joe Johnson late in Wednesday's game, Beckley Mason noted in a great visual analysis.
- CSN Chicago's 7.66 rating for Tuesday's game made it the highest rated regular season game in the network's history.
- The Celtics reportedly called the Kings about a trade to acquire DeMarcus Cousins. Over/under on the amount of days it wil take for Kevin Garnett to whack him in the back of the head?
- When the Pacers were 4-1, it was time to begin wondering how much of that is related to the acquisition of David West has now begun. Until, of course, the Heat go 18-for-26 at the rim and 24-for-26 at the line against them.
- The Cavs went into last night 3-2 through the first five games and had people wondering. I don't know what people were wondering, but that's just kind of something people who write about sports say, so I said it. I'll let Matt McHale take over from here:
Would you believe that, according to Basketball-Reference, the Cadavers currently rank 12th in both Offensive and Defensive Rating? And they're 11th in MOV (2.67), ahead of both the Celtics (2.43) and Thunder (0.57). Could...could it be...that Cleveland isn't horrible this season?
Nah. Last night's 92-77 loss to the Craptors should dispell any delusions of adequacy on the part of the Cadavers. Cleveland actually shot better from three-point range (30.4 percent) than overall (29.6 percent). But that's nothing to start throwing confetti about.
[...]
Bonus bawful: The Cads and Craptors combined four 8 fast break points. This, my friends, is what we call Scalper's Night Off.
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I think my issue with Thibs' minute distribution was not the number of minutes Rose played
(although I wouldn’t mind the number going down), but the fact that he played the entire second half. No need for him to start the fourth quarter against the Pistons (!) when we have a double digit lead. It’s overkill. And spare me Sam Smith’s stuff about how “This is the way he coaches”, because that’s a total cop out. The way he used Rose last night was completely unnecessary.
Sadly, my self worth is almost entirely based upon the outcome of the previous night's Bulls game.
Bottom line is that he is going to have to learn to adapt.
Will he? What we’ve seen so far says no…but with 11 games in like 15 days coming up, maybe he will start to see the light at some point if they Bulls have a clunker or two.
"this comes with it" is the cop out for the reason I expressed in the post...
Neither Sam Smith nor anyone else can articulate Thibs’ philosophy on how to manage a rotation. We can only speculate.
Analyzing the game flow, I can only assume Rose started the 4th to extend their lead, but the Pistons ignited another run at that point to play Lucas the remainder of the game, just as they did when he was likely planning to pull Rose in the 3rd before his 4Q shift.
I’m for resting in the middle of the second half — almost always. I’m more for needing the inevitable rally with your best rested over extending them and risking wear and tear on the tail-end of a back-to-back on the road, but I empathize that there was very inopportune timing of those two runs. And I call the comparison to the ’10 Cs an “oversimplification” because home or road, the conference was still theirs to lose. That team was inherently better equipped to beat those Cavs and Magic teams on any floor than these Bulls are to beat the Heat.
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by Alex Sonty on Jan 5, 2012 11:03 AM CST up reply actions 2 recs
Exactly
I’m for resting in the middle of the second half — almost always. I’m more for needing the inevitable rally with your best rested over extending them and risking wear and tear on the tail-end of a back-to-back on the road
And yeah, I kinda understand where Thibs was coming from as well. If you extend the lead big enough, you can take him out earlier. But I think that’s a poor habit that Thibs needs to move away from. ESPECIALLY when one of our biggest strengths is supposed to be our depth, and solid bench play
Sadly, my self worth is almost entirely based upon the outcome of the previous night's Bulls game.
by Juiceboxjerry on Jan 5, 2012 12:14 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I consider Phil Jackson to be the best coach in history...
And I always liked how he would try to rest MJ at the end of 1st and 3rd quarters, as the break between would give him even more real time rest while the clock was stopped. This is what I would like to see Thibs do regardless of situation with Rose…then depending on the flow of the game, continue the rest into the 2nd and 4th until situation dictates Rose to return.
I don’t have an issue with of the other player’s minutes. I want the best players on the floor together for most of the game, and Thibs does a good job of using his full rotation.
New signature coming...but its a process.
by Dionysus2.0 on Jan 5, 2012 1:06 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
This.
Although I would also add it again wasn’t so much the number of minutes, but also playing him at the very end with a double digit lead that wasn’t in serious jeopardy at all. That seemed like a prime time to take him and other starters out…I was joining in the chorus looking at my screen of take him out…why is he in there now? Does Thibs really think he needs more experience closing? I know Thibs doesn’t, but I sure was frustrated. Even if he hadn’t hurt his elbow there was no good reason for him being in there.
"Fast Don't Lie"
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jan 5, 2012 12:26 PM CST up reply actions
Agreed.
Pistons are a pile of dung with no redeeming quality and they lost to the Bulls in a way you’d expect.
One day you feel like you're on top of the world when you beat the Lakers and then the next night you lose against Golden State. - Joakim Noah
Disagreed
Only because they are going to prove themselves a challenger for the 7th and 8th seeds this season, and the difference between the Bulls and Pistons is the difference between a dominant top of the conference team and maybe the 16th best team in the league.
The Pistons looked great against the magic and the pacers. The Bulls are going to make EVERY middling team look awful.
by JockstrapNoah on Jan 5, 2012 1:15 PM CST up reply actions
Orlando always
struggles with Detroit. I can not envision that collection of players making the playoffs.
And even the worst teams win games every now and again. Hell, the 12-70 2010 Nets beat our Bulls twice!
One day you feel like you're on top of the world when you beat the Lakers and then the next night you lose against Golden State. - Joakim Noah
Agreed.
I still think Detroit will be lucky to win 10 games…
New signature coming...but its a process.
Stupid thing to say about ANY NBA team.
Those guy have pride, and they’re only a few steps behind the Bulls.
Typical loser mentality to start badmouthing opponents 5 games into a season.
Also, everybody knows that when you start playing not to get injured, that’s when you get injured.
Play the games hard, enjoy the wins when they come (don’t piss on the other team) and quit trying to outsmart fate.
"Civilization is the arteriosclerosis of culture."
Silly, rabbit...
There’s no such thing as fate.
And to call the Pistons “only a few steps behind the Bulls” is a good joke. The only way that statement carries water is the expectation of lottery picks over the next 3-5 years, but look at who’s drafting them.
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by Alex Sonty on Jan 6, 2012 10:49 AM CST up reply actions 3 recs
The Pistons are only a few steps behind the Bulls
but every one of those steps is drafting Derrick Rose
Rose decides not to go 1-on-2 and I was thinking, "what are you doing?! You've got the numbers!" -Zach Harper, Daily Dime Live
Whaaaa?
“A few steps behind the Bulls”? Maybe if a Tyrannosaurus is the one doing the steppin’
Sadly, my self worth is almost entirely based upon the outcome of the previous night's Bulls game.
by Juiceboxjerry on Jan 6, 2012 11:44 AM CST up reply actions
Alright, who would the C's give up for Cousins?
Rondo seems a bit too much for Cousins. Maybe if the Kings threw in other assets.
One of the big 3? It is not out of the question that the C’s blow up there core and pick up a bunch of young assets to move forward with. You would need to keep KG around in order to beat up on cousins.
Rookies / picks? I do not think that the C’s have any rookies that look to be anything but role players. I am not sure of their other assets. I think they have a Clippers pick that is top 10 protected.
Schindler's List is, at the most basic level, a remake of Jurassic Park... ~Zizek
yeah, I think that's more the case of Danny Ainge being master of the media
he’s in on everything, that guy!
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 5, 2012 11:09 AM CST up reply actions 3 recs
Do the kings have a bad contract?
C’s could give Green expiring, a pick and pick a bad contract
Tho I still think Kings can do better than that
by JustAnotherFan on Jan 5, 2012 12:31 PM CST up reply actions
Kevin Garnett?
I think he is expiring…but they would likely need a 3rd team to make the deal work.
New signature coming...but its a process.
like i posted in the other cousins thread
maybe they give up rondo for cousins fredette and a pick?
that would give them two good pieces to add to the big 3 while also giving them a decent core for the future and possibly a star in this years draft
Should've traded for Melo.
by sin on Jan 5, 2012 1:29 PM CST up reply actions
My completely unrealistic scenario would be
Kings get: Boozer
Celtics get: Cousins
Bulls get: Garnett
There would have to be some heavy lifting to match the Boozer-Garnett-Cousins salaries, but yeah… now I’m done.
in some strange way it would almost be like a trade to the bulls would make garnett pull his head out of his ass.
but probably not.
by obnoxious american on Jan 5, 2012 2:08 PM CST up reply actions
I suppose it's just my selfish desire to see what a Thibodeau
defense would look like with Garnett and Noah roaming the paint. Swoon.
But they hate eachother!!!
Our chemistry would be ruined!!
by Gen on Jan 5, 2012 2:37 PM CST up reply actions
well the Kings just fired Westphal
so that’s that.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 5, 2012 1:38 PM CST up reply actions 3 recs
wow.
what’s the record for earliest firing?
by obnoxious american on Jan 5, 2012 1:39 PM CST up reply actions
Skiles got fired on Xmas eve...
This is at least the 5th of January.
New signature coming...but its a process.
still the worst!
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"Don't nag, flag!"
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 5, 2012 7:09 PM CST up reply actions
i don't find it strange at all actually
given the scenario with cousins. management came out and said they didn’t want to trade him. but if westphal wasn’t gonna play him, they had to get rid of him. they weren’t gonna let cousins drift off.
Look
I didn’t want to offend anyone by saying the "f" word or generalizing my statement to any particular sex by saying "gays" or lesbians" or "bi’s" so "homos" is the most "politically correct" term. I’m just trying to be more tact in a tactless blog.
by Hindut Patrol on Feb 15, 2011 2:51 PM EST
I should have clarified...
the way the Westphal-Cousins situation has played out in public has been pretty strange, highlighted by the ‘did he or did he not demand a trade’ letter.
FYI - it was Tuesday's game against the Hawks, not last night's against the Pistons that set the CSN high.
That threw me off for a minute…would have been strange that a middle of the week game against a weak opponent with a BCS game (mind you a not quite as appealing one) on at the same time set that kind of record. Even the BaB game thread seemed a bit sparse.
Tuesday’s home opener after last year’s season and a promising start certainly makes sense though.
Sorry. My calendar's screwed up.
I haven’t conducted a class in four weeks and the whole Christmas on a Sunday, NYE on a Saturday, and every day since feeling like a Monday since Tuesday’s completely thrown me out of whack.
Follow me on Twitter.
No big deal. Figured that was what you meant.
Glad BlobaBull brought you aboard. Always enjoyed your stuff on chicagonow page.
BlobaBull. Great site that one.
The preview button is your friend bleigh82.
by bleigh82 on Jan 5, 2012 11:01 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
"BlobaBull"? Wasn't that the name of the site when Eddy Curry was here?
Sadly, my self worth is almost entirely based upon the outcome of the previous night's Bulls game.
by Juiceboxjerry on Jan 5, 2012 12:16 PM CST up reply actions 7 recs
Followed by Mike Sweetney
and Jerome James…
WCG's Resident Nickelback and Boy Band fan
Also rated Worst WCG Blogger by Dr. Steven Schweickert's extensive "Total BR" (Blogger Rating)
"Oh Dilfer, give me the strength...
to be as bad a WCG Contributor as you are an announcer/authority on anything. Peace be with you. " (JoetheBoss)
He wasn't that fat.
He was definitely a big guy but he wasn’t as rotund as the other 3
Pat Riley is the devil.
Rotund
2nd time today I’ve heard it…must be a sign to quit my diet
WCG's Resident Nickelback and Boy Band fan
Also rated Worst WCG Blogger by Dr. Steven Schweickert's extensive "Total BR" (Blogger Rating)
"Oh Dilfer, give me the strength...
to be as bad a WCG Contributor as you are an announcer/authority on anything. Peace be with you. " (JoetheBoss)
by ThorCo on Jan 5, 2012 2:23 PM CST up reply actions 3 recs
How does he have
Such a cool nickname?
at least its hockey season now
by comebackkirk12 on Jan 5, 2012 5:22 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Except, that was Sunday.
Tuesday’s home opener after last year’s season and a promising start certainly makes sense though.
One day you feel like you're on top of the world when you beat the Lakers and then the next night you lose against Golden State. - Joakim Noah
Thibs wants to be intense, whatever.
But there’s pretty much no excuse or logic to putting Rose back in the game after he took that fall. It’s a dumb decision and eventually it’ll come back to haunt him.
I don't want Thibs resting his guys Popovich or Rivers style.
All I would ask of his is to not play his fucking starters for damn near the entire fourth quarter when you’re up big against the Fucking Detroit Pistons!
I dunno, maybe he wants to make sure that the starters all mesh well with Rip before he starts cutting some of their minutes. That’s definitely a possibility.
The point about Rose's threes is just silly at this point I believe
Last night, 2 of those threes were full court heaves and 1 one was closer to half court than the 3 point line.
I understand he has been “struggling” since late last year, but in reality he only had 3 attempts last night. I thought one of them was poor shot selection, but he was wide open with time on the other two. He was taking them to keep the defense honest.
Rose is 11 for 35 on 3 pointers this year. If you take out the three from last night that anyone would make only 1 time out of a few hundred, he is 11 for 32 for 34.3%. He had one against Sacramento as well from 71 feet away (thank you espn shot chart), which brings him to 11 for 31 which is 35.5%. That’s actually a good percentage, considering he took at least a few other ill advised threes. He also jacked a few in the Golden State game that he had to take, but since they were not heaves I won’t count those in his favor.
I am not saying that I want Rose taking a ton of threes. Nor am I saying that I don’t think his shot selection could use some work, but he has done pretty well from behind the arc so far this season. While those heaves don’t make a ton of difference in the long run, 4 heaves when you have only taken a bit over 30 makes a huge difference. Furthermore, I think it is improper to lump the last part of last season with the first part of this season. Rose was tired, injured, and beaten down. He is much fresher now and his three point stroke looks fine. I am fine with him taking open threes to keep the defense honest. He is shooting about 35% when they are not ridiculous shots. Let’s talk again 30 games into the season and see if that trend continues. Again, I could be wrong and there is room for improvement on shot selection, but I believe he has done rather well this year.
"Mental toughness is to physical as four is to one." - Bob Knight
by DRose01 on Jan 5, 2012 11:35 AM CST reply actions 9 recs
Bulls will go far because they dont need Rose to score 30 points a night to win.
Yes the Hawks game was necessary because no body else was making anything, but the point is the Bulls are balanced and get scoring from everywhere.
Shit, every starter last night was in double figures.
MCM's Favorite Hawkeye
Good points.
Still, it troubles me when Rose misses wide, wide open threes, which he often gets because teams are so worried about his drives. And he is so great when he does hit his threes, as in the fourth quarter of the Hawks game.
That is exactly right...
and may be a byproduct of excessive wear on the legs (44 minutes of basketball the previous night).
Schindler's List is, at the most basic level, a remake of Jurassic Park... ~Zizek
by THEKILLERWHALE on Jan 5, 2012 12:13 PM CST up reply actions
I made this point in another thread but
Rose has actually been much better at 3 pointers in isolation and coming off the pick and roll than he has in spot up situations. I don’t know how much that was true laast year, but it seemed Rose was always better shooting off the dribble than off the catch and shoot. The obvious reason for this is that he takes probably 3/4 of his shots off of the dribble, unassisted. I think his catch and shoot skills will improve once he learns to get his legs underneath him better off the catch.
"Mental toughness is to physical as four is to one." - Bob Knight
by DRose01 on Jan 5, 2012 12:04 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Those heaves are counted?? Man rose must have about 100 a year, thats messed up
Seriously, last year he probably average 1.2 per game no?
Gotta be more than that.
It seemed like he had one every other game, at the very least.
If you think about it
A number of factors have to be there for a Rose heave:
1) Bulls have to gain possession with just a couple seconds left in a quarter
2) Rose has to be in the game
3) Rose has to have ball
On average, the Bulls will have the ball last twice per game. Then most of those times, they’ll be able to bring it up the floor for a last shot rather than needing a heave. It’s a small number altogether.
It was more than 20.
Less than 30 tho.
Remember this?
One day you feel like you're on top of the world when you beat the Lakers and then the next night you lose against Golden State. - Joakim Noah
by chicity773 on Jan 5, 2012 1:21 PM CST up reply actions 4 recs
Paul Pierce yawns at the end-of-quarter heave excuse
All go-to non-frontcourt guys chuck a ton of these all year.
Follow me on Twitter.
sure, but the ones on teams with other guys who can dribble well probably throw fewer than derrick does.
not that that makes a big difference when comparing rose to other guys, but it probably does make an appreciable difference when you are trying to discover the expected return on a derrick rose 3pt shot in a half court offense.
"We would look at each other with a glint of recognition and one of us would say, 'So you worry about ASIK, too,' as if admitting a secret vice. Then we would share our crazy ideas-- because all ideas about ASIK that are not immediately wrong turn out to be crazy."
by TheMoon on Jan 6, 2012 2:07 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
It's more important that the long-2 attempts are down...
He’s said repeatedly that this year’s goal was to be more efficient. It’s better to brick 7 of 10 3s (90 pts per 100) than only 6 of 10 long-2s (80 pts per 100). The long-2s getting cut in half vastly improves his efficiency the way he’s finishing at the rim and that he’s finding driving lanes instead of his team forcing him to create those lanes.
The team also affects the 3s he takes. He isn’t jacking dumb stuff. He’s pretty damn good at taking what the defense gives him, and the missed 3s usually come after his team isn’t finding space to create off the ball. Possession-by-possession, it’s clear he’s further improved — as he did greatly last season — at not dribbling around into long shots. When he’s dribbling a lot, he’s usually taking it to the hole, baiting the defense to free up a teammate, or — when it’s at its best — both at the same time.
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by Alex Sonty on Jan 5, 2012 11:46 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I totally agree with that sentiment
My point was that this season, Rose has actually shot more like 34-35% rather than 31%. That difference in percentage makes a huge difference. 31% is an eFG% of 45.5% (poor), 35% is an eFG% of 52.5% (much better). I agree, dropping the amount of long twos will go a long way to improving Rose’s overall efficiency. Again, my point was that maybe Rose is actually shooting better than we think, not great, but better.
"Mental toughness is to physical as four is to one." - Bob Knight
by DRose01 on Jan 5, 2012 11:55 AM CST up reply actions 2 recs
I really have no clue what it's like playing professional basketball, so I don't know how players think while on the court
but since Rose is such a streaky shooter, you’d think that once he misses 2 or 3 wide open ones he’d just try and avoid that shot altogether. That being said I had no problem with his number of threes last night. As you pointed out, most of them realy were just heaves at the end of quarters or the shot clock, And the others were wide open looks.
Sadly, my self worth is almost entirely based upon the outcome of the previous night's Bulls game.
by Juiceboxjerry on Jan 5, 2012 12:22 PM CST up reply actions
Agreed
If the outside shot isn’t falling, attack the basket for a while. Get into a rhythm. Then, if you’re open or it makes sense, try perimeter shots again.
Rose’s shot selection is generally very good. But he usually has that one “what are you THINKING?!?!” 3pt attempt each game.
Ya I don't know either
I know I think that way when I play. That said, I would hope Rose truly believes every shot he takes is going in.
"Mental toughness is to physical as four is to one." - Bob Knight
by DRose01 on Jan 5, 2012 1:01 PM CST via Android app up reply actions
I'd like to ask coaches that to see who falls under which bracket.
Obviously aches and pains can adjust a shot, but all things being equal, you have to think coaches don’t tell their players to select shots by how they personally feel their “rhythm” is.
This is all assumption, but without physical hinderance and a good look, a player is equally likely to hit the next shot than the last five he’s missed. If a player’s losing his confidence, he needs to be made to believe this fact — that his skill set doesn’t come and go, if that’s actually within his skill-set; and if it isn’t in his skill set, he ought to be scolded even for his makes when a better decision. I’m assuming good coaches are rational when I say this, but — to provide an extreme example — in 95-possession games over four-to-six months, it’s more important to evaluate the decision of the center to shoot the 3 he made than to applaud the result that he hit the 3.
That said, the most efficient players know how to pre-empt confidence lulls by creating easy buckets off the ball, using dribble penetration to get to the line and take clean-look shots that count. There is something valuable — as all shooters will tell you — in watching the ball go through the net. The repetition gives you the preview of what you want so the shooting isn’t bare of vision. (Hence why Rose always takes a shot after the whistle; not a random throw, but lines up and practices a shot. Also why KG almost always smacks the ball away as it approaches the rim when he sees shooters do this.)
Follow me on Twitter.
by Alex Sonty on Jan 5, 2012 1:12 PM CST up reply actions 6 recs
For me...
The quintessential amateur point guard… It has a lot to do with how the shot feel during warm ups and earlier in the week. Not necessarily in the game.
I sink 10 in a row during warm ups, and I miss my first two in the game – I’m trying the third. If that goes, I’m going for the fourth. If I’ve been unstoppable for the past few days, I’m going to shoot and shoot and shoot.
Hell, some of the best (three-shooting) games I’ve had come after not being able to buy a bucket in warm ups.
Any idea what his WORST game has been?
dot dot dot
by Johannes Factotum on Jan 5, 2012 3:06 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Re: Starters (in particular, Rose) being in when game is in hand
Reminded me of this game:
http://www.nba.com/bulls/video/2010/12/13/1213_PACERS_BULLS_RECAP.mov/index.html
One day you feel like you're on top of the world when you beat the Lakers and then the next night you lose against Golden State. - Joakim Noah
Up 12 with 4-5 minutes to go is NOT a safe lead, even againsts the crappy pistons, who beat the magic th eother day
I have no problem with thibs last night
Deng and Rose, are not KG and Ray Allen. yeah they may look tired, but they will recover much easier than guys in thier 30s.
when you have a ferrari, never tap the brake!
That's how you wrap a Ferrari around a tree
by tuluse on Jan 5, 2012 11:44 AM CST up reply actions 4 recs
Well today, he slammed the brakes, no practice, onto Orlando tomorrow
Lets trust thibs and the training staff
yeah except they had a bigger lead with 3 minutes left,
and they were still out there. and the deng thing is just through the fucking looking glass. it makes zero sense for him to log the time he does on such a deep team.
by obnoxious american on Jan 5, 2012 1:33 PM CST up reply actions
I don't have a problem with how many minutes Rose/Deng played last night
I do think they played too many in the Memphis game. They shouldn’t have played at all in the 4th. But look, Rose and Deng are the team’s most valuable players and are going to play the most because of that. They are also young and well-conditioned, so it’s not surprising, nor should anyone be too worried, that they will be near the top in the league for minutes played. Boozer and Noah are the one’s Thib needs to watch their minutes because they have injury histories. Even though Deng played a lot of minutes last night, he really didn’t look like he exerted himself that much, so I doubt it would have made much difference than if he rested for 3-5 minutes more. I also think, this early in the season, these minutes are meant to get the team working well together and get the offense fixed and running smoothly. What good is it to rest everyone for the playoffs when they can’t run anything smoothly or look uncomfortable playing with each other?
by berzerkulous on Jan 5, 2012 11:54 AM CST reply actions 2 recs
I thought Rose was taken out with like 4 minutes left in the 3rd and never came back
Dunno about Deng, but I don’t remember him playing well into the 4th either.
nope
it just seemed like deng wasn’t in cause he wasn’t doing much heh
Look
I didn’t want to offend anyone by saying the "f" word or generalizing my statement to any particular sex by saying "gays" or lesbians" or "bi’s" so "homos" is the most "politically correct" term. I’m just trying to be more tact in a tactless blog.
by Hindut Patrol on Feb 15, 2011 2:51 PM EST
Think
he’s talking about the Memphis game.
One day you feel like you're on top of the world when you beat the Lakers and then the next night you lose against Golden State. - Joakim Noah
sorry, my bad!
Look
I didn’t want to offend anyone by saying the "f" word or generalizing my statement to any particular sex by saying "gays" or lesbians" or "bi’s" so "homos" is the most "politically correct" term. I’m just trying to be more tact in a tactless blog.
by Hindut Patrol on Feb 15, 2011 2:51 PM EST
but yeah for the memphis game
only thing i thought was odd was how long ronnie was out there. butler could have been subbed in a lot sooner.
Look
I didn’t want to offend anyone by saying the "f" word or generalizing my statement to any particular sex by saying "gays" or lesbians" or "bi’s" so "homos" is the most "politically correct" term. I’m just trying to be more tact in a tactless blog.
by Hindut Patrol on Feb 15, 2011 2:51 PM EST
Meanwhile, Hawks fans are wondering
if coach Larry Drew should have played his starters more minutes in the game against the Bulls. Because you would think when you have a 19-point lead in the closing minutes of the third quarter it might be a good time to rest the starters for a few minutes. So Drew rested his starters and the Bulls crept back into the game. By the time Drew brought his starters back in the opening minutes of the fourth quarter, the momentum had swung, the home crowd was back into the game, and Rose had found his rhythm.
Maybe Drew will have the last laugh. But I think the Bulls need home court advantage against the Heat. Furthermore, there are games coming up where one would hope the Bulls will blow out inferior teams at home. In January, the Bulls have home games coming up against the Pistons, Wizards, Raptors, Suns, Bobcats, Nets, Pacers, and Bucks. I would certainly hope that some of those games will be blowouts where Thibs can rest the starters without risking losing games.
As for the extra two minutes Rose played in the closing minutes of last night’s game, I don’t see it as a big deal. At first Rose needed to go back in to hit his foul shots. Then maybe Thibs wanted Rose to keep playing so his elbow wouldn’t swell, or wanted to see how he would play to test the injury. The Bulls were on the road, Detroit was pressing the ball handler, and teams can make up points at home pretty quickly sometimes. Thibs did bring Rose out with more than a minute left.
by Tim S. on Jan 5, 2012 12:21 PM CST reply actions 9 recs
the Chicago Bulls bench is suppose to be a lot stronger than the Hawks bench
Regardless, the reason they lost that game wasn’t because they rested their guys too much, they lost that game because their guys started settling for 17 ft and 18 ft jumpers and stopped moving the ball.
I had no problem with the minutes Thibs gave Rose and Deng versus Atlanta – that was a good opponent and the Bulls would probably have lost those games if he hadn’t played them those minutes. But vs. Memphis and Detroit, the Bulls were never in a position to lose either game. Their is a big difference between the come back capabilities of Rose and the Bulls and the Pistons/Memphis. Especially since in the Atl-Chi game, it never looked like Atl was fully in control because they were so bad on offense. Thibs is overplaying guys in sure wins.
by Basketball Smurf on Jan 5, 2012 1:54 PM CST up reply actions
Rose played 26 minutes against Memphis.
Deng played 32 minutes. Neither of them played a minute in the fourth quarter. This despite the injury to Watson, Rose’s back-up. What makes you think they were overplayed in that game?
by Tim S. on Jan 5, 2012 2:08 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I guess they weren't overplayed in that game. I was more going off the fact that
Scals and Butler only played 6 minutes.
by Basketball Smurf on Jan 5, 2012 2:25 PM CST up reply actions
And as for the Chicago Bulls bench,
it’s strong at every position except point guard and small forward.
I think the Bulls bench is fine at small forward
Korver-Brewer-Butler can all play that position. I don’t think you can find many teams with that type of depth at the wing position. The Bulls could get away with far more Hamilton-Brewer / Brewer-Korver combos than they actually play.
by Basketball Smurf on Jan 5, 2012 2:27 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Apparently Thibs does not agree.
Whatever he gets from Deng at that position, he apparently does not get from Korver-Brewer-Butler. Knowing Thibs, I think it is mainly about defense. Korver is a defensive liability, Brewer is better defending guards than small forwards, and Butler is a rookie. But there is also the offensive factor. Korver does not create his own shot or create shots for others, Brewer is historically offensively-challenged, and, again, Brewer is a rookie. Deng isn’t the greatest offensive option in the league, but he’s one of the prime offensive assets on this team.
by Tim S. on Jan 5, 2012 4:48 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
What evidence do you have that Brewer is better defending guards?
I remember him doing a great job against Lebron, and don’t recall him struggling against any player, SG or SF. He’s got good height and length and shouldn’t be significantly undersized against most SFs.
by runningman on Jan 5, 2012 6:04 PM CST up reply actions 3 recs
Mostly I'm going with Thibs on this one.
Also Brewer is listed as a guard, not even a guard/forward. He’s shorter and has a smaller wingspan than most small forwards.
you captioned the photo
thank Sonty. you listened good and quick.
A true friend stabs you in the front - Oscar Wilde
by dantheman3k on Jan 5, 2012 12:37 PM CST reply actions 4 recs
Hollinger talking about the minutes situation in his chat today:
DC (Chicago)
How long until Deng will hardly be able to walk? March 1st?
John Hollinger (12:16 PM)
I’m very concerned with the minutes load a lot of guys are playing and the ones on the Bulls and Clippers in particular. Hopefully they pull back on Deng’s playing time when Rip comes back, because they can’t just keep going to the whip all season like this.
Sadly, my self worth is almost entirely based upon the outcome of the previous night's Bulls game.
by Juiceboxjerry on Jan 5, 2012 12:41 PM CST reply actions 3 recs
Well,
Deng played 38mpg the year before Thibs came here, 39 mpg last year and is at 39 mpg this season. He looks okay out there.
In general, the guys that are out on the floor for the most minutes are typically stars who have to carry a huge part of the load on offense and they rest for the purpose of being fresh, not being injured. Luol’s in great shape and at the same time is able to be effective while playing 38-40 mpg, and he’s not relied upon to carry the load offensively, so I don’t think him being out there is so much of an issue.
Except this season is much much much more condensed that seasons before
Without as much rest time between games, I imagine 38mpg will feel like a lot heavier load than 40mpg would have last year.
I'm not sure that is true.
I haven’t seen any proof that there were more injuries than usual in the previous shortened season. I think there is a lot of sloppy ball, and teams suffer from fewer practices and a shortened off-season. But the theory that coaches should rest their starters even more than in a normal season seems highly speculative. And if you look at the league-leaders in minutes so far, it looks similar to previous seasons. It isn’t just Thibs who is riding his starters as usual.
by Tim S. on Jan 5, 2012 2:25 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I don't see this being a popular opinion, but I think D.Rose has some responsibility on this as well.
With around 2-3 minutes left and a decent lead, on one possession he drove hard as soon as they brought the ball down, where he really probably should have rested his legs and just ate some clock. Also, I know right now it’s all about winning, but I don’t think he really needs to be making higher risk drives in late 4th quarter minutes with a blowout lead.
He is so fast, but as we all know he just doesn’t have the size and build of a lot of people who play aggressive like that. He builds up so much forward momentum on his drives that there’s always a chance of a catastrophic mishap at the end of the drive. It might be on D.Rose to also manage his minutes a bit, realize when he can afford to cut back on risk.
WWCD? CDGAF.
Guess we are hunted by our own ghosts
Bulls keep coming back from (almost) impossible games and now they are scared that everyone will climb back on them
by JustAnotherFan on Jan 5, 2012 12:49 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
Whew.. I woke up this morning wondering what to fret about regarding the Bulls.
My worry void is now filled. Thanks!
by DisCUBbobulated on Jan 5, 2012 12:57 PM CST reply actions 4 recs
Too long term
I need something that can go wrong tomorrow.
by runningman on Jan 5, 2012 2:12 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
Cool
Don’t forget to come back tomorrow for the post I have planned: “Does Derrick Rose have AIDS? (based on absolutely nothing)”
Sadly, my self worth is almost entirely based upon the outcome of the previous night's Bulls game.
by Juiceboxjerry on Jan 5, 2012 1:19 PM CST up reply actions
I knew it!!
We’re screwed (well, I guess technically he is).
by DisCUBbobulated on Jan 5, 2012 1:31 PM CST up reply actions
a little OT but it's about another Thibs trend (maybe)
It looks like he is determined to be a little more vocal over bad calls. He has 2 (or 3) Ts already and has even talked about it to the media once.
I like that
Good
Bulls get no respect from officials, and it makes no sense (other than the fact that the Bulls generally don’t argue calls). They’re an elite team, one of the largest markets, with one of the largest fanbases outside their home area. You’d think that if anything they’d get more calls.
Though maybe the league is slowly making up for all the phantom calls Jordan got in the 90’s.
those were mostly hand checks.
though derrick got a questionable one on the drive where he hurt himself. it’s a process.
by obnoxious american on Jan 5, 2012 2:11 PM CST up reply actions
Is there any threshold for further punishment like there is for players?
i.e. if Thibs reaches 18 technicals this year, do they ban food delivery to the tape room?
WWCD? CDGAF.
by JStymie on Jan 5, 2012 1:52 PM CST up reply actions 3 recs
How about this for non-news?
KC retweeted this from a Magic beat writer:
@JoshuaBRobbins
Asked about his interest or lack of interest in #Chicago #Bulls, Dwight Howard said he wasn’t talking about trade stuff.
by bryield on Jan 5, 2012 1:50 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
I've figured it's a done deal.
Rose is signing his Adidas extension now, Howard’s is due next year. Adidas has publicly said they are against Rose & D12 playing for the same team, and Rose’s extension is now apparently worth up to $250mil. If Adidas tells D12 that he doesn’t get his extension if he goes to Chicago, I doubt there’s much the Bulls could do. And I’m guessing Dwight would rather say “no comment” than admit he’s skipping a good opportunity for an endorsement contract.
WWCD? CDGAF.
by JStymie on Jan 5, 2012 1:55 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
When did Adidas say this?
Adidas has publicly said they are against Rose & D12 playing for the same team
Sadly, my self worth is almost entirely based upon the outcome of the previous night's Bulls game.
by Juiceboxjerry on Jan 5, 2012 2:04 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I'm looking for the quote...
It was on Yahoo, the exact quote was “Adidas simply cannot have its two signature players on the same team in the same market. … Derrick is the face of that market, owns that market, and Adidas can’t possibly have maximum bang for its buck with Dwight there.” But it’s not tied directly to an Adidas representative, just a “high ranking sneaker executive.”
WWCD? CDGAF.
Yeah, I've seen the story
My point was that Adidas has never came out and said that. And the quote that Woj has in there seems more speculative than anything. I’m not denying that it has merit, but I think it’s being a bit overblown at this point
If Howard chooses not to come here, I doubt the shoe thing will be the biggest reason
Sadly, my self worth is almost entirely based upon the outcome of the previous night's Bulls game.
by Juiceboxjerry on Jan 5, 2012 2:15 PM CST up reply actions
Yeah, like I said.
I misread it, when I first read that article (Not on Yahoo, can’t remember where I read it), I thought they attributed the quote to an “Adidas Executive”, but obviously that says “sneaker executive.” So like I said, I misread it. Not questing that.
Though, I would not doubt the influence that could have over Howard’s decision. Fresh off the Pujols situation, as they say, it’s always about the money. And these shoe contracts are dwarfing even these guys’ playing contracts, and the player’s agent is also involved in the shoe contracts, so there’s some influence there. Paxson acknowledged as much recently.
WWCD? CDGAF.
It is safe to assume that they would prefer Dwight and DRose on different teams
But it would be stupid to publicly say that. Can you imagine the backlash of people flipping out over a corporation publicly trying to control the decisions of an athlete?
I have no idea what the actual point was here, I just wanted to lend credit to your point
"There are two ways to argue with a woman, and neither of them work."
- Carlos Boozer after cancelling an interview with a Sports Illustrated reporter because his wife was expecting him home.
I'll say this again:
The only people that stand to lose from Dwight going to Chicago are the people at Adidas. Personally, I don’t believe that having Dwight and DRose in Chicago will hurt Adidas, but lets say that it does and they told Dwight that they’re done with him if he signs with the Bulls.
Well…….Dwight Howard can tell them to kiss his ass and then go sign with Nike for big bucks. And for arguments sake, lets say that Dwight gets less money with Nike than he would with Adidas. Chicago’s a big ass town, to quote TMAC, and what he loses in shoe money he’ll make up elsewhere. Oh, and the rings will be sweet too!
If he doesn’t come to Chicago, it’s likely for reasons other than Adidas.
More on reading the Howard tea leaves...
Per Woj’s column:
Despite Howard’s preference to go to the Brooklyn-bound Nets to play with Deron Williams, those close to Howard still believe he’s fluctuating on his future and could be sold on different scenarios.
Dust off the jeans and update the powerpoints, Gar, it’s time to get back to work…
by bryield on Jan 5, 2012 6:04 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
6 time NBA Champions, MJ played here, DRose is 23 and will not be leaving, best fans, shorter "sleeves" to the jerseys than in Orlando to help show off the guns...what's not to like?
pretty easy to make a power point for the Bulls, in my opinion.
"There are two ways to argue with a woman, and neither of them work."
- Carlos Boozer after cancelling an interview with a Sports Illustrated reporter because his wife was expecting him home.
by Brigade17 on Jan 5, 2012 6:30 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
does it matter that the nets really really suck, that williams hasnt been good so far this year, that
williams is 4 years older than rose, that hes often a fat-so?
"We would look at each other with a glint of recognition and one of us would say, 'So you worry about ASIK, too,' as if admitting a secret vice. Then we would share our crazy ideas-- because all ideas about ASIK that are not immediately wrong turn out to be crazy."
This was my favorite part...
that hes often a fat-so
FWIW
Top 3 MPG of players on championship teams over the past several years (and some old teams)
Mavs – 34..3, 33.2, 31.3
Lakers – 38.8, 37.0, 33.8
Lakers – 37.0, 36.1, 29.8
Celts – 35.9, 35.9, 32.8
Spurs-34.1, 32.5, 30.0
Heat-38.6, 31.8, 30.8
98 Bulls – 38.8, 37.5, 35.7
90 Pistons – 37.0, 34.4, 33.0
Bulls Last Year – 39.1, 37.4, 32.8
Bulls This Year – 39.4, 36.9, 29.4
The way I see it, Deng’s minutes are the ones we have to worry about. More minutes than Kobe, Wade, and Jordan is a bad sign. I’d love to see Deng down closer to the 37 Rose is at. Brewer is currently at 20mpg. He could spell Deng for 3 min per night.
"Mental toughness is to physical as four is to one." - Bob Knight
by DRose01 on Jan 5, 2012 1:59 PM CST reply actions 5 recs
I heard KC on the Score earlier, and he was questioned about how Thibs' is handing out minutes
and he actually said: “Who are we to question Tom Thibodeau on how he’s doing things?” (not verbatim, but just about). And that essentially sums up why KC bugs the shit out of me. If he is correct, then why the fuck do we need beat writers (or brains)?
Sadly, my self worth is almost entirely based upon the outcome of the previous night's Bulls game.
by Juiceboxjerry on Jan 5, 2012 2:10 PM CST up reply actions 4 recs
Wow that's horseshit
One day you feel like you're on top of the world when you beat the Lakers and then the next night you lose against Golden State. - Joakim Noah
love when you trash KC. funny stuff.
"We would look at each other with a glint of recognition and one of us would say, 'So you worry about ASIK, too,' as if admitting a secret vice. Then we would share our crazy ideas-- because all ideas about ASIK that are not immediately wrong turn out to be crazy."
Why I used the word "scrutiny"
Beat writers absolutely should scrutinize coaches on this in every city and should also come equipped with better analysis of the facts — not just copying minutes per game from NBA.com pages. I’d like to see studies of how players played in the fifth minute of their shift, relative to the seventh, eighth, and ninth, separated into tiers of players. Where younger players are playing better in their ninth minutes than bench guys in their first two, extending the starter’s shift is easy to justify when you’re not equipped to beat the best team in the conference on their home floor in a seven-game series — variables being typical things like age, health history, where their recent production aligns with standard deviation analysis of their career arcs.
If their not willing to do little things like this, they’re all overpaid, with way too much job security, and deserve to lose their jobs to people willing to value data of what actually happened over mundane quotes.
I like KC. He does his job very well and he’s an astute observer of the game. My problem is that the job, as is, is archaic.
Follow me on Twitter.
by Alex Sonty on Jan 6, 2012 11:07 AM CST up reply actions 3 recs
Great stuff
If you care, id like to see the minutes played of the Conference finalists in the last strike shortened season, although i dont recall if the 50 games were as compressed as this years 66 game schedule
Ok
Had a whole post typed up. Basically, the Knicks, Pacers, Spurs, and Trail Blazers were the final four that year. It seemed that the Pacers and Trailblazers rested their older players perhaps a bit more than expected. The Knicks and Spurs played their players about what you would expect, including a whopping 39mpg for Duncan and 34+mpg for a 34 year old Ewing. The Knicks and Spurs made it to the finals and the Spurs won. It seems like there are multiple strategies to get to the same place. However, I still say Deng’s minutes need to go down.
"Mental toughness is to physical as four is to one." - Bob Knight
by DRose01 on Jan 5, 2012 8:51 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
And seriously, i would do Cousins for Rondo, immediattely
Followed by tyreke for a big
Then that makes sense.
But Boston would be crazy to do that.
Why would Boston do that deal?
Rondo’s a hell of a player and Cousins is a 6-11 knucklehead who shoots percent from the field. Cousins, for all his hype and glory, isn’t really a starting caliber player right now(for a contender).
to not have to watch Jermaine Oneal
crawl across the court
by MartyMondays on Jan 5, 2012 8:57 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I think this is an issue that begs for oversimplification
It was the Pistons on the second game of a back to back where your two best players played heavy minutes the night before. Not only was that a game to shorten Deng and Rose minutes, that was the game to let your bench win it even if it meant a loss. They have a horrendous stretch coming up and the least of which is a terrible Pistons team that was losing by double digits.
I like Thibs and i think he’s a good coach, but what’s going to determine if he’s a great coach is how he handles moments like last night. Bringing back in those starters and the 2:00 minute mark at the end of the game may have been the stupidest thing I’ve seen since… I don’t know…him bringing Deng in for 49 secs to end the half in the same game or bringing Rose back in AFTER he injured his elbow. Thibs was an idiot last night.
Hey Rose. I don't see the appeal!
by Dils on Jan 5, 2012 2:34 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
Let’s see if I can tie a couple of things together here.
World Population just ticked over 7 billion. Of all those 7 billion, only one is the reigning top basketball coach in the top league on the planet. So, in terms of basketball-related issues, this puts Thibs in a class of one…and assigns a weight of one seven billionth to your contrary opinion. That seems about right to me.
Thibs head would explode if he read this message board
he probably start showing up people houses and running them through drills. You think defending the post is easy, huh?
by Basketball Smurf on Jan 5, 2012 3:18 PM CST up reply actions 6 recs
Ha
Obviously, I’m just kidding. However, if pressed, I will admit I do somewhat lean towards trusting Thibs’ evaluation in these matters.
cool, then read KC's quotes from him and not our stuff.
BaB on Twitter | BaB on Facebook
"Don't nag, flag!"
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 5, 2012 4:00 PM CST up reply actions 4 recs
saying we have no qualifications to discuss this shit is basically the worst comment you can make
and I’m including whatever the fuck sin’s doing on here daily.
BaB on Twitter | BaB on Facebook
"Don't nag, flag!"
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 5, 2012 4:09 PM CST up reply actions 8 recs
no, i know.
i just kinda post stuff, sometimes. if it was anyone else that said that, i wouldn’t have posted anything, probably.
by obnoxious american on Jan 5, 2012 4:19 PM CST up reply actions
Aww I can just feel the love
Should've traded for Melo.
by sin on Jan 5, 2012 6:05 PM CST up reply actions 3 recs
Love hurts
"There are two ways to argue with a woman, and neither of them work."
- Carlos Boozer after cancelling an interview with a Sports Illustrated reporter because his wife was expecting him home.
Ahh, the sad, sad moment when you realize the "friendly" in his name isn't exactly accurate.
Sadly, my self worth is almost entirely based upon the outcome of the previous night's Bulls game.
by Juiceboxjerry on Jan 5, 2012 4:09 PM CST up reply actions 8 recs
Remind me:
Which part of that handle is accurate?
by jpx7 on Jan 5, 2012 4:29 PM CST up reply actions 3 recs
he is MINE
the friendly bulls blogging is sporadic however
"Sportsmanship is just loser talk for losing."
I'm with Basketball Smurf...Lame.
Hey Rose. I don't see the appeal!
Everybody has great points regarding the minutes issue, but I'm not sure if heavier
minutes are correlated to more injuries. Sometimes fluke injuries happen right after the game starts or during it. There’s no way of really knowing when. Thibs should definitely be a little more careful with the minutes distribution, especially with Deng since Brewer could play a few minutes at the 3. Rose should of sat after he hit his FT’s.
There was no real reason for him to be out there with a couple of minutes to play. I think the bench could have held on to that lead. I mean just run out the clock, if you grab an offensive board that’s almost a minute that would’ve gone by. I think it was an 11 point lead with a couple of minutes left. It’s certainly possible they could have made a run and tied or taken the lead, maybe that’s why Thibs was hesitant to pull Rose. If it was a 20 point lead I’m pretty sure he would’ve taken out the starters. Except Deng. He HAS to play at least 40 min. Let’s just hope he cuts back a little.
On the J.R. Smith bandwagon until otherwise advised.
Its not all about injuries, its about fatigue as well
Rose openly admitted to being fatigued at the end of last season.
by Basketball Smurf on Jan 5, 2012 3:05 PM CST up reply actions
True, but last season he also played in the FIBA tournament after training during the summer,
and during the season he had Bogans as a starting shooting guard. This season he should have less strenuous minutes if Rip stays healthy and productive. I think that might be a big difference between last year and this year.
On the J.R. Smith bandwagon until otherwise advised.
by BlackStar on Jan 5, 2012 3:57 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Not to mention...
about 20 fewer games played in the NBA, counting exhibition season.
New signature coming...but its a process.
oh snap!
He got the picture comments on smash…he coming for the throne next! Lol
by Belize on Jan 5, 2012 2:55 PM CST via mobile reply actions 1 recs
haha, just realized that
Good one too
Sadly, my self worth is almost entirely based upon the outcome of the previous night's Bulls game.
by Juiceboxjerry on Jan 5, 2012 3:38 PM CST up reply actions
RIP
"First quarter was good; I think just adrenaline. Second quarter, I felt a little pull, but there was no way that I was getting off the court. So I’ve just got to ice it down, get treatment, stim [electronic stimulation]," said Hamilton, who described his groin as "sore" after the game.
One day you feel like you're on top of the world when you beat the Lakers and then the next night you lose against Golden State. - Joakim Noah
by chicity773 on Jan 5, 2012 3:05 PM CST reply actions 3 recs
electronic stimulation eh?
(I’ll see myself out)
by tuluse on Jan 5, 2012 3:18 PM CST up reply actions 11 recs
Estim is a common therapy now.
Especially with older athletes. Promotes blood flow and speeds healing time. It’s not intrusive. At least as a low level healing therapy. Jordan seemed to make it popular during his last few years playing for the Bulls. It’s more advanced now but essentially the same type of thing.
"Fast Don't Lie"
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jan 6, 2012 1:30 AM CST up reply actions
wow, did not see that anywhere else, good find
BaB on Twitter | BaB on Facebook
"Don't nag, flag!"
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 5, 2012 4:01 PM CST up reply actions
Yeah, it kinda got lost amidst all the "AHHHH DERRICK"S ELBOW"S FALLING OFF! THIBS IS THE DEVIL!" stuff
Not good news
Sadly, my self worth is almost entirely based upon the outcome of the previous night's Bulls game.
by Juiceboxjerry on Jan 5, 2012 4:12 PM CST up reply actions
yeah, it's entirely possible
the Bulls signed an old man.
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"Don't nag, flag!"
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 5, 2012 4:17 PM CST up reply actions 3 recs
JBJ just got a re-tweet by Jimmy Butler. The dude's going to be insufferable....oh wait, he already is
Jimmy Butler@mr_2eight1Reply
RT @juiceboxjerry: @mr_2eight1 probably things to buy << ohhh I see your doing what I do on twitter. I like the way you think
"There are two ways to argue with a woman, and neither of them work."
- Carlos Boozer after cancelling an interview with a Sports Illustrated reporter because his wife was expecting him home.
by Brigade17 on Jan 5, 2012 3:56 PM CST reply actions 6 recs
translate that to english, please
"Sportsmanship is just loser talk for losing."
by boyonthedock on Jan 5, 2012 4:05 PM CST up reply actions 3 recs
Jimmy said, "Let's see what the Orlando mall has to offer"
JBJ said back, “probably things to buy”
Jimmy: “ohhh I see your doing what I do on twitter. I like the way you think”
"There are two ways to argue with a woman, and neither of them work."
- Carlos Boozer after cancelling an interview with a Sports Illustrated reporter because his wife was expecting him home.
by Brigade17 on Jan 5, 2012 4:06 PM CST up reply actions 6 recs
I don't even know what that response means, haha
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"Don't nag, flag!"
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 5, 2012 4:10 PM CST up reply actions
I think Jimmy likes snarky, sarcastic people
at least that’s what I take from it
"There are two ways to argue with a woman, and neither of them work."
- Carlos Boozer after cancelling an interview with a Sports Illustrated reporter because his wife was expecting him home.
see, now that's cool all around
BaB on Twitter | BaB on Facebook
"Don't nag, flag!"
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 5, 2012 4:17 PM CST up reply actions 7 recs
He can be very sarcastic at times, I think that's what he was getting at
Sadly, my self worth is almost entirely based upon the outcome of the previous night's Bulls game.
by Juiceboxjerry on Jan 5, 2012 4:13 PM CST up reply actions
follow me!
twitter.com/bullsblogger
BaB on Twitter | BaB on Facebook
"Don't nag, flag!"
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 5, 2012 4:09 PM CST up reply actions 12 recs
Yeah, I only do it for informational purposes. Mostly just follow people
Rarely do I actually Tweet, and if I do it’s to disagree with something or ask a question or something
Sadly, my self worth is almost entirely based upon the outcome of the previous night's Bulls game.
by Juiceboxjerry on Jan 5, 2012 4:25 PM CST up reply actions
Me and Jimmy are now BFF's so everyone just chill the fuck out, ok?
Sadly, my self worth is almost entirely based upon the outcome of the previous night's Bulls game.
by Juiceboxjerry on Jan 5, 2012 4:16 PM CST up reply actions 6 recs
(I was wearing sunglasses inside when I typed this btw)
Sadly, my self worth is almost entirely based upon the outcome of the previous night's Bulls game.
by Juiceboxjerry on Jan 5, 2012 4:18 PM CST up reply actions 6 recs
you need to tweet him back and point him to this blog
there’s so much sarcasm, he’ll feel like a kid in a candy shop!
"There are two ways to argue with a woman, and neither of them work."
- Carlos Boozer after cancelling an interview with a Sports Illustrated reporter because his wife was expecting him home.
by Brigade17 on Jan 5, 2012 4:26 PM CST up reply actions 4 recs
Tell him to read soul eater posts from last year and how he was wanted here all along!
Should've traded for Melo.
by sin on Jan 5, 2012 6:08 PM CST up reply actions
Funny you should mention that
The most interesting thing to come out of that Tweet is that I think Souleater is now following me (unless there’s more than one Souleater that describes himself as a Bulls fan, and would feel inclined to follow my dumb ass). So he is alive and well, people. And WATCHING US.
Sadly, my self worth is almost entirely based upon the outcome of the previous night's Bulls game.
by Juiceboxjerry on Jan 5, 2012 6:49 PM CST up reply actions 5 recs
All the BaB castoffs go to Thonus' blog.
by Ozzie Montana on Jan 5, 2012 7:21 PM CST up reply actions 5 recs
and proceded to get banned
WCG's Resident Nickelback and Boy Band fan
Also rated Worst WCG Blogger by Dr. Steven Schweickert's extensive "Total BR" (Blogger Rating)
"Oh Dilfer, give me the strength...
to be as bad a WCG Contributor as you are an announcer/authority on anything. Peace be with you. " (JoetheBoss)
I see him around realgm as well
One day you feel like you're on top of the world when you beat the Lakers and then the next night you lose against Golden State. - Joakim Noah
not anymore
I think he got banned
WCG's Resident Nickelback and Boy Band fan
Also rated Worst WCG Blogger by Dr. Steven Schweickert's extensive "Total BR" (Blogger Rating)
"Oh Dilfer, give me the strength...
to be as bad a WCG Contributor as you are an announcer/authority on anything. Peace be with you. " (JoetheBoss)
Lol, wow.
One day you feel like you're on top of the world when you beat the Lakers and then the next night you lose against Golden State. - Joakim Noah
I am too, now
I knew you had one, but who knew it would be so…. obvious.
A true friend stabs you in the front - Oscar Wilde
haha, I like to keep things simple
I’ve been using that same name on a shitload of different accounts for years
Sadly, my self worth is almost entirely based upon the outcome of the previous night's Bulls game.
by Juiceboxjerry on Jan 6, 2012 12:28 AM CST up reply actions
Let me add to the case
by looking at Miami’s decision tonight to bench James and Wade despite both players’ ability to play (under pain, no doubt). The Heat play a potential playoff team in Atlanta but b/c James suffered an ankle injury the previous night (and b/c his buddy Wade is out too), they both sit. Miami’s coaching staff understands their top players’ desire and commitment and aren’t worried that sitting them sends a poor message. None of us can claim to know all Thibs motives in heavily playing Rose/Deng, but there is an obvious question here about the players wearing down in a shortened 66 game season. Jordan/Pippen never played in a season with a higher % of back-to-backs as this one. In fact, looking back on the Bulls’ intensity petering off in the Heat series and Rose getting hurt in the Pacer series, can we say regular season overwork contributed? Who knows.
The fact that there’s been a separate story on the blog today, with tens of comments, speaks to the concern of the fan base with this issue. And as representatives of that fan base, the media, in their chance to speak postgame with Coach Thibodeau, should have asked him the question everyone was thinking.
The fear of a Thibs tongue-lashing as a result of asking relevant questions is NOT a good enough reason to keep quiet.
Grammar douche says:
I think you meant “cue.” although you could make the argument…
by mexkrn on Jan 5, 2012 9:53 PM CST reply actions 2 recs
that was bothering me all day, haha
since nobody else said anything I thought I was wrong and Alex was right.
BaB on Twitter | BaB on Facebook
"Don't nag, flag!"
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 5, 2012 9:57 PM CST up reply actions
i was going to make a snarky comment about this earlier
but since i already corrected your to/TOO error i didn’t want to seem like a total grammar douche.
Look
I didn’t want to offend anyone by saying the "f" word or generalizing my statement to any particular sex by saying "gays" or lesbians" or "bi’s" so "homos" is the most "politically correct" term. I’m just trying to be more tact in a tactless blog.
by Hindut Patrol on Feb 15, 2011 2:51 PM EST
(a few days ago)
Look
I didn’t want to offend anyone by saying the "f" word or generalizing my statement to any particular sex by saying "gays" or lesbians" or "bi’s" so "homos" is the most "politically correct" term. I’m just trying to be more tact in a tactless blog.
by Hindut Patrol on Feb 15, 2011 2:51 PM EST
you might say people were queued up to correct it
no…maybe not, that’s a bad pun. And right on cue.
There, now I’ve guaranteed I’ll be the only one laughing at this
"Shame he’s such a goofy fuckface."
-JBJ, referring to Dwight Howard
by SidM on Jan 5, 2012 11:21 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
It would;ve been better if you switched them around.
Rose decides not to go 1-on-2 and I was thinking, "what are you doing?! You've got the numbers!" -Zach Harper, Daily Dime Live
by Prevenge on Jan 6, 2012 3:54 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Was bothering me, too.
But I thought maybe Sonty was making some weird joke about Thib’s rotational tendencies, describing the criticism as “queue-scrutiny.” Maybe you should change it to “cue queue-scrutiny,” just to really drive home the point.
I automatically corrected it in my head
but now I can’t unsee it! AGH
Rose decides not to go 1-on-2 and I was thinking, "what are you doing?! You've got the numbers!" -Zach Harper, Daily Dime Live

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