Retroactive Around the NBA Thread 1/26

“Hey his team is full of chuckers so it’s OK”. If he’s ever put with a wing player or PG that can do more than chuck, chances are that player will be better than him to begin with. I don’t think Howard with Kobe guarantees Howardf a title but I do think Howard with Rose does. The difference? Rose is a better player than Howard, Kobe isn’t.

I just look at Howard as David Robinson and that’s OK. He’s a great defender and rebounder with no other competition and that’s cool too. But he doesn’t make his team better at the Center position and you can’t run an offense through him. Olajawon was a go to guy, you could run your offense through Shaq. With Howard he’s going to need a better player on the wing to handle the playmaking while he dominates on defense. Plus his temperament is a detriment. He’s just not one of “those dudes”. Rose is, Wade and Kobe was. I just don’t think he can be the best player on a Championship roster.

Hey Rose. I don't see the appeal!

by Dils on Jan 27, 2012 12:44 AM CST up reply actions

I think he can be the best guy on a ship roster

But then he needs a lot of help on a decent team like the nuggets or something…Like the polo man put down there. THAT right there is more than alot of help. Imagine Dwight with the nuggets best player on the team by far, but still pretty loaded with talent before he got there.

"Violence is not always the answer."
"Violence is the question, and the answers always YES!"

by T.Moore on Jan 27, 2012 12:50 AM CST up reply actions

i argue that rose isnt even better than dwight

at least not yet. he cant impact the game on both ends like dwight can.

dwight can dominate and change a game both offensively and defensively.

and no bullshit about the free throws please because that never stopped shaq from shitting on the league but again he needed a good enough team and thats something otis smith has yet to provide for dwight

By popular demand I am putting a moratorium on the Melo talk until the Knicks win the title in June.

by sin on Jan 27, 2012 1:06 AM CST up reply actions

I just don’t think he can be the best player on a Championship roster.

That’s interesting. You don’t think he can be the best player on a Champion, yet I’d say he’s pretty easily a top 2 player in the league (him and Lebron). So in other words, the only way you think he could win a title is with Lebron?

(and even if you really wanna stretch, and say he’s top 5 (again, ridiculous imo), does that mean that you think he’d ONLY win a title with one of four other players on his team?)

Injuries. Fuck.

by Juiceboxjerry on Jan 27, 2012 2:56 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs

(and I can't stand Howard btw, so it really pains me to defend him, but the lengths people go to rip some of these guys is silly)

Injuries. Fuck.

by Juiceboxjerry on Jan 27, 2012 2:57 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs

I never said he was a top 2 player

I think Rose is better than Howard and also Lebron is better.. Durant, and a healthy Wade is also arguable.

Hey Rose. I don't see the appeal!

by Dils on Jan 27, 2012 7:36 AM CST up reply actions

I know you didn't, I was saying he's top 2

Which is why I put that “top 5” part in there for you.

Howard is pretty easily better than Rose, Durant, or Wade imo (I have Rose, Durant, Wade, Dirk and Kobe kinda bunched up after those two). The things he does defensively set him apart. His offense may not be as dominant as some people want, but how many post players do we even see put up big scoring numbers anymore? It’s a guard’s league.

The days of throwing the ball down low a shitload of times are pretty much over. Howard is basically the perfect big man for the way the game is played right now. He scores just fine. The only real chink in his armor is his free throw shooting, and if you wanna drop him down on your list for something like that then you’re just not paying enough attention.

(also, don’t forget the fact that he’s been incredibly durable throughout his career. to be able to know that you can pencil him in your lineup every night, which most definitely not the case with other great big men around the league, is extremely valuable)

Injuries. Fuck.

by Juiceboxjerry on Jan 27, 2012 8:21 AM CST up reply actions

This game proves nothing

That’s not a team out there with him. Just a bunch of jump shooters.
He can be the best player on a championship team the same way Shaq was. And I’m not saying he’s as good as Shaq but the competition isn’t nearly as good as the amount of centers in shaq’s era either

By popular demand I am putting a moratorium on the Melo talk until the Knicks win the title in June.

by sin on Jan 26, 2012 11:04 PM CST up reply actions

Just like 20 games proves nothing against NY

by JustAnotherFan on Jan 27, 2012 5:00 AM CST up reply actions

Let's say Orlando somehow managed to assemble this lineup

PG – Kyrie Irving
SG – Aaron Afflalo
SF – Luol Deng
PF – Ryan Anderson
C- Dwight Howard

Let’s say they also put together a respectable bench. You’re telling me that team doesn’t win a championship?

Pat Riley is the devil.

by Poloplaya14 on Jan 26, 2012 11:09 PM CST up reply actions

damn, this lineup is way better than out current team.

by Geo4MVP on Jan 26, 2012 11:13 PM CST up reply actions

Oh man, that's awesome

Injuries. Fuck.

by Juiceboxjerry on Jan 26, 2012 11:18 PM CST up reply actions

wow, the Ryan Anderson PR folks are hard at work...

Umm…. I don’t think this lineup is such a world-beater… ok, it appears that Kyrie is the deal and can put the ball on the floor, but other than that, when the jumpers aren’t going down, this team is in trouble…

Taj MaBall

by inkybreath on Jan 26, 2012 11:23 PM CST up reply actions

Boozy is still filling up the stat sheet compared to RA...

Taj MaBall

by inkybreath on Jan 26, 2012 11:25 PM CST up reply actions

what? RA has been monster this year..

By popular demand I am putting a moratorium on the Melo talk until the Knicks win the title in June.

by sin on Jan 26, 2012 11:31 PM CST up reply actions

monster? wait... nba.com stats do not show this year...

I see them now (weird) … ok, those are nice numbers… I give.

I guess I just don’t think he’ll stick in the long run…

Taj MaBall

by inkybreath on Jan 26, 2012 11:38 PM CST up reply actions

awesome 3 pt shooter/jumpshooter

he would be a great compliment to noah in the front court.

by Geo4MVP on Jan 26, 2012 11:40 PM CST up reply actions

He's a 23-year-old PF with a 23 PER and isn't a sieve defensively

Short of Dirk, Gasol, Blake and Kevin Love, there’s no PF I’d rather have right now. Maybe Aldridge, but that’s about it.

Pat Riley is the devil.

by Poloplaya14 on Jan 26, 2012 11:29 PM CST up reply actions

I hear ya... but I'm not sold...

there have been a lot of guys that have made a little showing like him and then faded away…

Taj MaBall

by inkybreath on Jan 26, 2012 11:32 PM CST up reply actions

And as to your point about the team

Even when the jumpers aren’t falling, this squad’s still the best defensive team in the league, so they’ll still be in it. When the jumpers are falling, this team’s literally unstoppable.

Pat Riley is the devil.

by Poloplaya14 on Jan 26, 2012 11:31 PM CST up reply actions

yes, would be good defensive team...

Taj MaBall

by inkybreath on Jan 26, 2012 11:33 PM CST up reply actions

aldridge is a beast. so underrated, and i have him as one the top 3 pfs.

by Geo4MVP on Jan 26, 2012 11:36 PM CST up reply actions

No it's not actually

That team isn’t good enough to beat this years Bulls or the Heat.

Hey Rose. I don't see the appeal!

by Dils on Jan 27, 2012 12:22 AM CST up reply actions

Hell Dwight already had a team better than that went to the Finals in 2008/2009 with a lineup of...

Jameer Nelson
Turkoglu (This Turkoglu was every bit as good as Ryan Anderson)
Rashard Lewis
Courtney Lee
Dwight Howard

Even had Mickael Pietrus coming off the bench and I won’t even include Reddick. Howard couldn’t win it with that squad.

Hey Rose. I don't see the appeal!

by Dils on Jan 27, 2012 12:31 AM CST up reply actions

that was a terrible team

rose has a better team and hasnt gotten to the finals yet. are you going to call him a player that cant be the best player on a title team?

howard can be. he just needs the right players around him.

By popular demand I am putting a moratorium on the Melo talk until the Knicks win the title in June.

by sin on Jan 27, 2012 12:43 AM CST up reply actions

That was a "terrible" team? Really? Come on.

Hey Rose. I don't see the appeal!

by Dils on Jan 27, 2012 12:46 AM CST up reply actions

it really was...

rshard was an overpaid jumpshooter playing out of position

courtney lee was a rookie
their bench sucked. all jump shooters.

By popular demand I am putting a moratorium on the Melo talk until the Knicks win the title in June.

by sin on Jan 27, 2012 1:02 AM CST up reply actions

You think that's better than the team I listed?

Anderson’s better than Lewis
Deng’s better than Turkoglu
Afflalo’s better than Lee
Irving’s better than Nelson

I think the team I listed would unquestionably be the best in the league right now. If you disagree, well I guess we’re just gonna have to agree to disagree.

Pat Riley is the devil.

by Poloplaya14 on Jan 27, 2012 12:46 AM CST up reply actions

Yeah I guess we will because

All of a sudden Ryan Anderson is the second coming? Rashard Lewis was 17 and 6 that year.
Yeah Deng is better than Turk defensively that’s about it. Let’s not forget Turk that year was a hell of a playmaker at the SF spot and he was good for 16/5/4 that year.
Irving has promise but let’s not get crazy. Jameer Nelson was an All-Star that year putting up 17 and 5.
Affalo must be living off his rep because he’s putting up 12ppg this year and as I remember Courtney Lee was a ball handler pretty important to their Finals run that year.

So yeah that lineup you came up with was solid but it’s built off a ton of presumptions where this Magic lineup was pretty good for a couple of years.

Hey Rose. I don't see the appeal!

by Dils on Jan 27, 2012 12:54 AM CST up reply actions

Ryan Anderson is averaging 17 and 7

He’s not the second coming, but he’s a way better defender and rebounder than Rashard Lewis and is just as good a scorer.

Let’s call Deng vs. Turk a wash. I think Deng’s better, but I just don’t want to argue that point with you, because I don’t think I have to.

Now Irving vs. Nelson. Yes, Nelson played like an all-star that year, but let’s not forget that he was hurt and only played 20 mpg in the Finals. If he’s healthy during the Finals, Orlando maybe wins that series. And I think Irving is playing better this year than Nelson ever has, to be perfectly honest.

As for Afflalo’s, he’s probably overrated, but Courtney Lee isn’t so great either. There’s nothing Courtney Lee can do that Affalo can’t do better.

Pat Riley is the devil.

by Poloplaya14 on Jan 27, 2012 1:00 AM CST up reply actions

It was good for a year

Then they blew it up for Vince Carter…the dumbasses

"Violence is not always the answer."
"Violence is the question, and the answers always YES!"

by T.Moore on Jan 27, 2012 1:00 AM CST up reply actions

that team was absolutely stacked

People are forgetting just how good Turk really was that year…

You can’t win a title with Howard as your go to guy, you need a perimeter player who can take over in todays NBA.

by MartyMondays on Jan 27, 2012 1:30 AM CST via mobile up reply actions 1 recs

that team was definitely NOT stacked wtf are people smoking today

By popular demand I am putting a moratorium on the Melo talk until the Knicks win the title in June.

by sin on Jan 27, 2012 2:15 AM CST up reply actions

and you definitely can win with howard as your best guy

maybe not as your go to guy in the last two minutes but he can definitely be the best player on a title team the way shaq was.

howard has never had a legit #2 guy. jameer and hedo (was he an allstar? i forgot) are not all star caliber players im sorry. they are about as allstar worthy as mo williams was in cleveland.

By popular demand I am putting a moratorium on the Melo talk until the Knicks win the title in June.

by sin on Jan 27, 2012 2:19 AM CST up reply actions

is he really your best player then?

If you can’t rely on him in the 4th quarter? When Kobe and Shaq got into it the Lakers picked Kobe.. I wonder why.

by MartyMondays on Jan 27, 2012 2:23 AM CST via mobile up reply actions

Howard is the best player on the team listed above

but he still wouldn’t be the closer

by Stacey_Is_King on Jan 27, 2012 2:27 AM CST up reply actions

well who is then?

The year Dallas finally won a ring it was because Dirk said “fuck it, I’m the best player. I’m going to close the game.” The years before that they tried to win with Terry closing.

It doesn’t work that way

by MartyMondays on Jan 27, 2012 2:30 AM CST via mobile up reply actions

In the clutch, some teams win with good offense from one player

others win by great defense. That team would be the second kind.

by Stacey_Is_King on Jan 27, 2012 2:35 AM CST up reply actions

give me an example

Old pistons teams? Buillups closed and he was their beat player. Spurs? Duncan closed and he was their best player.

by MartyMondays on Jan 27, 2012 2:37 AM CST via mobile up reply actions

This 'closed' thing needs to stop

The Lakers beat the Celtics in game 7 with defense. Don’t try and tell me Kobe’s 6-24 or whatever is what put them over the top.

by Stacey_Is_King on Jan 27, 2012 2:38 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs

obviously

Things don’t always work out the same way. But your best bet is that the Lakers in a close game, will go to Kobe.

by MartyMondays on Jan 27, 2012 2:40 AM CST via mobile up reply actions

And ironically

they’re still losing games to teams with not one designated closer

by Stacey_Is_King on Jan 27, 2012 2:50 AM CST up reply actions

Seriously

This idea that a player can only be great if he has a Kobe-like reputation in the fourth quarter is ridiculous.

Injuries. Fuck.

by Juiceboxjerry on Jan 27, 2012 2:51 AM CST up reply actions

exactly

By this logic Shaq isn’t a great player and if you want to argue that then that’s just dumb.

By popular demand I am putting a moratorium on the Melo talk until the Knicks win the title in June.

by sin on Jan 27, 2012 4:01 AM CST up reply actions

Well answer his point though...

What team has won a ring being a collection of good players that fit like a puzzle and play their roles without a “go to” gut? I’m really having a hard time thinking of one. Billups had balls on those Pistons teams and was “that dude” for them. Duncan was as well. The Rockets had Olajuwon and he was. Paul Pierce or even Ray Allen for Boston…

This is why if Lebron had 10% of the “it” factor Rose has, he’d have 2 rings by now. It’s not about a Kobe rep. It’s about being a player that can put the team on his back during money time which is usually the 4th quarter and win you a game. Being clutch and being “that dude” You know it when you see it.

Hey Rose. I don't see the appeal!

by Dils on Jan 27, 2012 7:59 AM CST up reply actions

*go to guy

Hey Rose. I don't see the appeal!

by Dils on Jan 27, 2012 8:00 AM CST up reply actions

So what, it goes both ways

what team has won a title without a great big man?

And I know you’ll say Jordan, but he doesn’t count, because he’s the greatest player ever.

Of course you need a solid wing player to create shots and produce at the end of games, but just because he’s doing that, doesn’t mean he’s better than Dwight. Are we supposed to overlook Howard’s dominance on defense for an entire game, and all the other things he does during the course of a game, just because he can’t be a one man wrecking crew in the fourth quarter.

And all this “that dude” and “clutch” talk is complete media created bullshit imo.

Injuries. Fuck.

by Juiceboxjerry on Jan 27, 2012 8:29 AM CST up reply actions

bottom line: majority of teams that have won it all have won with their best player being a pf/center

examples: lakers, spurs, celtics, mavs etc.

by Geo4MVP on Jan 27, 2012 8:33 AM CST up reply actions

the exception: pistons, bulls and few others.

by Geo4MVP on Jan 27, 2012 8:34 AM CST up reply actions

And I don't even think you can include the Pistons in that group

Rasheed Wallace was incredible when they were making their run, and Ben Wallace was a monster defensively. The Bulls are the only real outlier and that’s only cause they had the GOAT.

Injuries. Fuck.

by Juiceboxjerry on Jan 27, 2012 9:02 AM CST up reply actions

talking bout the bad boys

by Geo4MVP on Jan 27, 2012 9:03 AM CST up reply actions

wtf duncan closed?

No it was a number of role players hitting big shots. duncan dominated just like Shaq but likewise needed manu tony etc to help close out games too

By popular demand I am putting a moratorium on the Melo talk until the Knicks win the title in June.

by sin on Jan 27, 2012 3:58 AM CST up reply actions

terry was their clutch player in the clinching game

By popular demand I am putting a moratorium on the Melo talk until the Knicks win the title in June.

by sin on Jan 27, 2012 3:52 AM CST up reply actions

True

But Dirk can come up to the clutch too. Done so the past few years

"Violence is not always the answer."
"Violence is the question, and the answers always YES!"

by T.Moore on Jan 27, 2012 7:15 AM CST up reply actions

Heh

I remember when turkeyglue ws the closer lol

"Violence is not always the answer."
"Violence is the question, and the answers always YES!"

by T.Moore on Jan 27, 2012 7:14 AM CST up reply actions

if memory.serves me correctly they never "picked"

Shaq demanded out after arguing with kobe.
Not to mention kobe was younger.

and seriously are you really trying to say that because Shaq couldn’t be clutch at the end of a game that wasn’t the best player on those championships teams?
remind me who has the three finals mvp from those titles?

clutch=/= best otherwise no one would argue for lebron being the best player in the league

By popular demand I am putting a moratorium on the Melo talk until the Knicks win the title in June.

by sin on Jan 27, 2012 3:56 AM CST up reply actions

Kobe was quite a bit younger...that may have had something to do with it.

"Shame he’s such a goofy fuckface."
-JBJ, referring to Dwight Howard

by SidM on Jan 27, 2012 8:14 AM CST up reply actions

That team is winning a championship easily, imo

by Stacey_Is_King on Jan 27, 2012 1:18 AM CST up reply actions

that lineups better than ours

By popular demand I am putting a moratorium on the Melo talk until the Knicks win the title in June.

by sin on Jan 27, 2012 2:19 AM CST up reply actions

And those FTs give the Magic 5 pts for the qtr.

Holy crap terrible

"You play to win the playoffs, and we let 'em off the hook!" -Herm Mora Green

by jrobulls on Jan 26, 2012 9:39 PM CST reply actions

stan van gundy needs to retire

i dont know how good a coach he is, but he was always known to be emotional, and i think hes gotten to the point where hes just a pain, constantly nagging and yelling but not really drawing up anything executable.

Doc rivers is a pretty terrific coach though, its a shame hes considering retiring.

Dwight should just sign with nike, then come to chicago. Nike wins, chicago wins….addidas…well im blaming them for all of d.roses feet injuries…

oh, jason richardson and hedo turkeyglue both suck….

Waiting for the Prodigal Son to Return KH12 BITCHES!!!!
In the Chemi-meter we trust!

by piccolomair on Jan 26, 2012 9:48 PM CST reply actions

You see that column about Howard would be willing to sign in Boston because all he cares about is winning

It’s gotten to the point where every day something new comes out that makes me hate that guy even more

Injuries. Fuck.

by Juiceboxjerry on Jan 26, 2012 10:25 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs

i can def see him going to boston, but fuck him

hes a dumb piece of shit who doesnt know how to make the right choice for his career. Hes worse the lebron as of this point in that regards.

by Geo4MVP on Jan 26, 2012 10:56 PM CST up reply actions

hahahahahahahaaa @ memphis throwbacks

That shyt fugly

by Belize on Jan 26, 2012 9:52 PM CST via mobile reply actions

I actually like them for some reason

by bryield on Jan 26, 2012 9:57 PM CST via iPhone app up reply actions

*awkward moments on bab*

by Belize on Jan 26, 2012 10:06 PM CST via mobile up reply actions

Indeed

by bryield on Jan 26, 2012 10:08 PM CST via iPhone app up reply actions

Makes my eyes bleed watching the game.

"Fast Don't Lie"

by Sandberg's evil twin on Jan 26, 2012 10:13 PM CST up reply actions

They remind me of the Chicago throwbacks.

The one with the red jersey and blue shorts. That jersey actually grew on me. It was fugly but I remember using it all the time in NBA 2k.

by Wake on Jan 26, 2012 10:28 PM CST up reply actions

the stag ones?

Look
I didn’t want to offend anyone by saying the "f" word or generalizing my statement to any particular sex by saying "gays" or lesbians" or "bi’s" so "homos" is the most "politically correct" term. I’m just trying to be more tact in a tactless blog.

by Hindut Patrol on Feb 15, 2011 2:51 PM EST

by Jaina on Jan 26, 2012 10:29 PM CST up reply actions

the stags! lol

So glad where the bulls now

by Belize on Jan 26, 2012 10:43 PM CST via mobile up reply actions

Yeah

and I’m a bit embarrassed for liking it.

by Wake on Jan 26, 2012 10:50 PM CST up reply actions

i actually like them too

only because its the bulls former team name. Makes me love this team even more.

by Geo4MVP on Jan 26, 2012 10:55 PM CST up reply actions

honestly, i kinda like it too haha

they’re like… ugly in a likeable way haha.

by Hindut Patrol on Feb 15, 2011 2:51 PM EST

by Jaina on Jan 26, 2012 10:58 PM CST up reply actions

i think i may hate blake griffin even more than lebron

hes got the same douchey attitude except without the mvp talent

By popular demand I am putting a moratorium on the Melo talk until the Knicks win the title in June.

by sin on Jan 27, 2012 12:41 AM CST reply actions 2 recs

griffin isnt mean, he's just excitable

by kpd on Jan 27, 2012 1:33 AM CST up reply actions

no but he has the same lebron douche look after every call or non call

By popular demand I am putting a moratorium on the Melo talk until the Knicks win the title in June.

by sin on Jan 27, 2012 2:17 AM CST up reply actions

bingo

"Shame he’s such a goofy fuckface."
-JBJ, referring to Dwight Howard

by SidM on Jan 27, 2012 8:18 AM CST up reply actions

and he flops.

by obnoxious american on Jan 27, 2012 8:51 AM CST up reply actions

And his eyes are really close together.

by Brooklyn Bulls on Jan 27, 2012 9:12 AM CST up reply actions

I agree with the attitude bit.

He seems to have this elitist demeanor and he always complains to the ref. If calls don’t go his way he gives off this look to the refs that just annoys me. But skill-wise the talent is there. He’s not an MVP right now, but he definitely has the potential to be the best big man in the future.

by Wake on Jan 27, 2012 3:48 AM CST up reply actions

yeah he can get pretty annoying

he def turned me off a bit watching his in game personality. the thing is though i mean in various commercials/skits i’ve seen he’s always been funny so i hate seeing that he acts like a douche.

by Hindut Patrol on Feb 15, 2011 2:51 PM EST

by Jaina on Jan 27, 2012 8:52 AM CST up reply actions

Yeah. That commercial in the hair salon was hilarious.

I guess watching Rose, Durant, Love etc… I was expecting him to have the same humble and respectful demeanor. I hope somebody gives him a “welcome to the NBA” moment just to humble him a bit.

by Wake on Jan 27, 2012 9:36 AM CST up reply actions

it really depends on the coach too

sloan for instance may do wonders for a guy like blake.

by Geo4MVP on Jan 27, 2012 9:38 AM CST up reply actions

since everyone is throwing out weird lineups heres one

The Freaks of Nature lineup

Rose
Durant
Lebron James
Blake Griffin
Dwight Howard

that team will physically abuse any opposition

Waiting for the Prodigal Son to Return KH12 BITCHES!!!!
In the Chemi-meter we trust!

by piccolomair on Jan 27, 2012 5:04 AM CST reply actions

Boooooooo

Fuck lebron, fuck blake….

"Violence is not always the answer."
"Violence is the question, and the answers always YES!"

by T.Moore on Jan 27, 2012 7:17 AM CST up reply actions

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